best attack helicopter?

[Falco]

id like to know what you think is the best modern attack helicopter. if you have any better ideas than me plz post em :)

AH-1W
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/images/cobra8.jpg

AH-64
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/images/apache2.jpg

Ka-50
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ka50/images/Ka50_12.jpg

Mi-28
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mi28/images/havoc5.jpg

Mi-35
http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/mi35psrilanka.jpg

Tiger
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/tiger/images/tiger3.jpg

A129
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/agusta/images/agusta4.jpg

Rooivalk
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/rooivalk/images/rooivalk2.jpg

[attitude]

Not that its my choice but you forgot the WZ-10 from China

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/3097/attachmentphpeg7.jpg

I love the AH-1Z Super Cobra
Its a combat veteran that is better adapted to todays urban warfare than the Apache which was designed to take on large Soviet tank battalians

[Kaveh]

my vote goes to Cobra ... for me the best attack helicopter of all time

and the sexyst helicopter ever made :D

[Alex]

in my opinon the cobra is best. great overall and cheap too. do you have any price list of how much each helo cost?

[Tbagger]

The Apache is the most capable attack helicopter.

Best electronics, weapons, and a proven track record.

[Warrior]

In my opinion all of them suck and the Iraqi war proves that. But the one that still sucks but not as bad as some is the AH-64 in my opinion.

[Tbagger]

The Apache has survived RPG hits in Iraq before, so I don't know where you're going with the fragile chopper thing.

[lulldapull]

The Apache has survived RPG hits in Iraq before, so I don't know where you're going with the fragile chopper thing.

Dude...I am not even kidding but far more than 90 choppers have been downed by now. the Military is listing only those that got destroyed upon crashing impact, but not those that made it back to base or crash landed upon arrival with foot wide holes in the sides, and were eventually written off.

Conclusion......flying over dense small fire environment is bad!! I guess if you are manning a ZPU-23mm or the good old Dshk-14.7mm 'Dushka' with API/HEI rounds, No chopper has a prayer.....Nothing! even the Mil-24 gets all shot up, while doing 200 mph....with 50 guys shootin at you, and that one sharp shooter's got the RPG or that bad boy 106mm RCL with a HEAT round.:huh1:

its pretty bad man. Iraq is a meat grinder.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16843652/site/newsweek/

[Spartacus]

lulldapull, I agree. Attack helicopters are too vulnerable. I think that the Mi-28 is good, but I'd go for a Ka-50 due to its superb flight capabilities, strong armour, ejection seat and contained cost.

[Power_Serj]

25 helicopters have been shot down in Iraq since 2003. How is that a lot? Plus, not all of these were attack helicopters. In fact, I can bet that most were probably transport helicopters, which are crucial for battle.

I hear that these are from heavy machine guns and RPGS mostly. Attack helicopters are very affective and have proven their worth time and time again.

Where did you get 90 from? I believe the official number of downed aircraft is 50 with half being from enemy fire. Which means 25 were downed from enemy fire.

[lulldapull]

90 U.S. choppers of all kinds have been lost in iraq. mostly to ground fire. About 30 have been in Afghanistan. If you read that article from Newsweek, it will give you a clue.

[Power_Serj]

I have read that 50 choppers have been downed in Iraq, with only half being downed from enemy fire.

[AK54]

losing a few during "occupation" hardly outweighs how effective they are against armored columns and supporting other ground operations.

[lulldapull]

Would you two just admit it please. the Newsweek article says 90. Okay..... and to be very honest its probably several times that!

Also another big Ol Chinook just went down over Baghdad!

Surprise!:laugh1:

At this rate of losing one everday or every other day them god-damn choppers will disappear altogether from Iraqi and Afghan skies.

[Falco]

losing a few during "occupation" hardly outweighs how effective they are against armored columns and supporting other ground operations.
i think AK54 is right.

important is the number of helicopters that were lost while the symetric war.
and that is not really high!

[lulldapull]

i think AK54 is right.

important is the number of helicopters that were lost while the symetric war.
and that is not really high!

I think if even one neighbouring country decided to help the insurgents with heavier weaponry or Manpads....:biggrin1: ....These worthless choppers will start getting shot down in droves.;)

Even a single unit operating the Strella in the Baghdad area would clear the skies.

The U.S. is lucky iran or Syria are not helping the insurgents, or else this joker U.S. military would be in a whole lot of trouble.

P.S. Mr Falco....latest reports indicate that the U.S. choppers have stopped logging long hours and have adopted to different flight profiles and tactics. this Ch-46 that went down yesterday was the 5th loss in 2 weeks.

Congratulations.:)

[AK54]

The U.S. is lucky iran or Syria are not helping the insurgents, or else this joker U.S. military would be in a whole lot of trouble.

iran is helping insurgents...

[lulldapull]

iran is helping insurgents...

You are gonna provide proof? or back off like your president, because others will bust out laughing for it will lack credibility:)

Mr AK-54.....in all honesty if Iran wanted to it could have helped these sunni insurgents but it didn't.

Why should it, when the U.S. does the dirty work for it?:biggrin1: Truth is the U.S. works for Iran's interests. Its a great arrangement. We don't want it disturbed. You fight for us, and more power to you!

[Wolfe117]

can you guys imagine how many U.S. choppers would get shot down if they ever attacked iran?:laugh1:


I don't think the Iraq/Iran comparison is a good one. Attack Helicopters and any Transport helicopters are vulnerable by nature, they are slow, low flying and aren't very stealthy. It is how they are used in a military operation that makes the difference.

The way they are being flown around in Iraq now is much different than if they were to be used in an all out invasion of Iran.

In Iraq it's a insurgency war, without clear front lines or a conventional army to fight. Coalition forces are more vulnerable there because they operate in a way to try and minimize collateral damage while fighting insurgents. The goal there is to fight those who want to bring chaos to the country.

However, if it came down to a war with Iran there would be no such insurgency war. Not because iranians wouldn't try to bog down US and Coalition forces but because they wouldn't get the opportunity. There's a huge difference between the way US forces operate in security building and anti-insurgency operations and in all out war.

If a war with Iran broke out, it would be total war. Everything in the US arsenal would be used to minimize friendly casualties and maximize enemy casualties. The US was able to destroy whole cities in World war 2 to defeat the Nazis and Japanese. Don't think Iran would be any different.

[lulldapull]

I don't think the Iraq/Iran comparison is a good one. Attack Helicopters and any Transport helicopters are vulnerable by nature, they are slow, low flying and aren't very stealthy. It is how they are used in a military operation that makes the difference.

Mr Wolfee number 117, the operation in iraq and for that matter in Afghanistan is a military operation, not some cheap backyard BBQ in the ghetto:) .lets be honest about that at least.

The way they are being flown around in Iraq now is much different than if they were to be used in an all out invasion of Iran.

Yeah....I can see that. the fact is that they will be far more exposed to dense ground fire and Manpads. They will be shot down in droves!

In Iraq it's a insurgency war, without clear front lines or a conventional army to fight. Coalition forces are more vulnerable there because they operate in a way to try and minimize collateral damage while fighting insurgents. The goal there is to fight those who want to bring chaos to the country.

yeah we can see how much the U.S. forces try to minimise casualties.:biggrin1: And keep that propaganda line to yourself. Your only utility for Iran is that you keep fighting the insurgents on their behalf, for as long as you are useful.

However, if it came down to a war with Iran there would be no such insurgency war. Not because iranians wouldn't try to bog down US and Coalition forces but because they wouldn't get the opportunity. There's a huge difference between the way US forces operate in security building and anti-insurgency operations and in all out war.

Mr Wolfee....for the love of your God....quit joking with us about U.S. capabilities. We can see how effective they are in Iraq and Afghanistan when poorly armed ppl are getting away with attacking and killing and wounding a steady number of U.S. troops. Iran is a huge country, with long arms and a deep reach. And your troops are vulnerable in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Lets be realistic here. Your military is against attacking Iran, as it will be catastrophic for their position in both Iraq and Afghanistan and the Green Zone where Iran will get them, even if you decide not to use ground forces.;)

If a war with Iran broke out, it would be total war. Everything in the US arsenal would be used to minimize friendly casualties and maximize enemy casualties. The US was able to destroy whole cities in World war 2 to defeat the Nazis and Japanese. Don't think Iran would be any different.

If your president has the balls Mr Wolfee, then bring it on. Truth is that he can't even handle Iraq and Afghanistan, what to speak of Iran? In a few months, you boys will pack up and beat it. Then I will ask you about this war hysteria. Btw. Bush the terrorist announced yesterday that there is no allowance for either Iraq or Afghanistan in the 2009 budget. So in 2 years maximum.......you boys are outta there. I wish the U.S. could have stayed longer, so it can keep fighting for Iran's interests. I am disappointed with Bush. He is a pussy:)

[Wolfe117]

Mr Wolfee number 117, the operation in iraq and for that matter in Afghanistan is a military operation, not some cheap backyard BBQ in the ghetto:) .lets be honest about that at least.

I never said it was, I was simply illustrating the difference there is between a all out war and invasion and that of security/anti-insurgency ops.



Yeah....I can see that. the fact is that they will be far more exposed to dense ground fire and Manpads. They will be shot down in droves!

It isn't doctrine to send in helicopters until anti-aircraft sites have been sufficiently neutralized. Look at Serbia for example.



yeah we can see how much the U.S. forces try to minimise casualties.:biggrin1: And keep that propaganda line to yourself. Your only utility for Iran is that you keep fighting the insurgents on their behalf, for as long as you are useful.

First of all I'm not American and I'm not fighting Iraqi insurgents. Second whatever you want to believe about the US, there is a clear difference between operations like those in Iraq, or in the Balkans in the late 90s. In operations such as these there is a clear effort to target only military and industrial targets. Because it is bad for public opinion to indiscriminately bomb cities. however, just my opinion, if a war with Iran were to occure you would not see a similar kind of war being fought. More one like the air war against Nazi occupied Europe.



Mr Wolfee....for the love of your God....quit joking with us about U.S. capabilities. We can see how effective they are in Iraq and Afghanistan when poorly armed ppl are getting away with attacking and killing and wounding a steady number of U.S. troops. Iran is a huge country, with long arms and a deep reach. And your troops are vulnerable in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Lets be realistic here. Your military is against attacking Iran, as it will be catastrophic for their position in both Iraq and Afghanistan and the Green Zone where Iran will get them, even if you decide not to use ground forces.;)

I'm not religious so don't bother with the my god stuff.

If you are truely interested in fighting the US then it would be in your interest to take a more sober look at their military capability. It is just self-defeating to under-estimate your enemy.



If your president has the balls Mr Wolfee, then bring it on. Truth is that he can't even handle Iraq and Afghanistan, what to speak of Iran? In a few months, you boys will pack up and beat it. Then I will ask you about this war hysteria. Btw. Bush the terrorist announced yesterday that there is no allowance for either Iraq or Afghanistan in the 2009 budget. So in 2 years maximum.......you boys are outta there. I wish the U.S. could have stayed longer, so it can keep fighting for Iran's interests. I am disappointed with Bush. He is a pussy:)


Again I'm not American, nor am I a supporter of Bush for that matter.

Also Bush won't be President in 2009, why should he make budgetary projections for a year he won't even be in power for? That's up to the next President to do.

Also I've not seen or heard of any such 2009 budget and I live in North America. Where did you hear that from?

[Power_Serj]

I think if even one neighbouring country decided to help the insurgents with heavier weaponry or Manpads....:biggrin1: ....These worthless choppers will start getting shot down in droves.;)

Even a single unit operating the Strella in the Baghdad area would clear the skies.

The U.S. is lucky iran or Syria are not helping the insurgents, or else this joker U.S. military would be in a whole lot of trouble.

P.S. Mr Falco....latest reports indicate that the U.S. choppers have stopped logging long hours and have adopted to different flight profiles and tactics. this Ch-46 that went down yesterday was the 5th loss in 2 weeks.

Congratulations.:)

What are you talking about? Iran IS supporting the insurgency. It's no coincidence that Iran has all this anti-US rhetoric. It looks like Iran is sending insurgents shoulder launched surface to air missiles. How else would insurgents suddenly get the ability to shoot down choppers?

[lulldapull]

What are you talking about? Iran IS supporting the insurgency. It's no coincidence that Iran has all this anti-US rhetoric. It looks like Iran is sending insurgents shoulder launched surface to air missiles. How else would insurgents suddenly get the ability to shoot down choppers?

Quit cracking us up 'power serj'.....We are still waiting for the proof from your terrorist in chief.:rolleyes2:

Its been a few years, but he ain't got it.

Before you trump up these B.S. charges about Iran, perhaps you might want to follow your leader, and wait till he comes up with solid proof.

P.S. In the mean while......Just keep up the good work in Iraq and fight on man! Fight on! We are counting on ya. Iran needs the U.S. to fight on its behalf. As your commander in chief would say.....God's testing him! losing 5 choppers in 2 weeks is just another test. Even if you lose 500, were behind you....all the way;)

[Wolfe117]

Quit cracking us up 'power serj'.....We are still waiting for the proof from your terrorist in chief.:rolleyes2:

Its been a few years, but he ain't got it.

Before you trump up these B.S. charges about Iran, perhaps you might want to follow your leader, and wait till he comes up with solid proof.

P.S. In the mean while......Just keep up the good work in Iraq and fight on man! Fight on! We are counting on ya. Iran needs the U.S. to fight on its behalf. As your commander in chief would say.....God's testing him! losing 5 choppers in 2 weeks is just another test. Even if you lose 500, were behind you....all the way;)

The deaths of human beings are not things to be ridiculing. All loss of human life is a sad reality that should be given some dignity and respect to the fallen. No matter which side you are rooting for.

[AK54]

Quit cracking us up 'power serj'.....We are still waiting for the proof from your terrorist in chief.:rolleyes2:

Its been a few years, but he ain't got it.

Before you trump up these B.S. charges about Iran, perhaps you might want to follow your leader, and wait till he comes up with solid proof.

P.S. In the mean while......Just keep up the good work in Iraq and fight on man! Fight on! We are counting on ya. Iran needs the U.S. to fight on its behalf. As your commander in chief would say.....God's testing him! losing 5 choppers in 2 weeks is just another test. Even if you lose 500, were behind you....all the way;)
i think youll find that the majority of people here will agree iran is supporting shia militias.

[Wolfe117]

i think youll find that the majority of people here will agree iran is supporting shia militias.

If there is hard evidence of it, then I'd believe it. I mean common all one has to do is turn on the television and watch Iran's President's speeches to see his government isn't exactly friendly nor neutral toward the US and Western democracies.

[lulldapull]

i think youll find that the majority of people here will agree iran is supporting shia militias.

Yeah no shiit sherlock!:rolleyes2:

But its the sunni militia's and insurgents that are busting your boys.

You are fighting for the shia militia's.;)

Now Bush terrorist doesn't like the situation which has by default elevated Iran, so he is pissed that someone else is reaping the windfall for dying American soldiers.:laugh1:

Isn't that right AK-54?:laugh1:

We are counting on the U.S forces to keep up the 'crusade', and keep up the good work. You are all heroes for Iran, and wont be forgotten. Thank you America, for fighting unpaid on Iran's behalf.:laugh1:

And while you guys are fighting for Iran.......keep looking for that elusive WMD proof, as no one believes your Bullshiit after the prank on Iraq.

[lulldapull]

If there is hard evidence of it, then I'd believe it. I mean common all one has to do is turn on the television and watch Iran's President's speeches to see his government isn't exactly friendly nor neutral toward the US and Western democracies.

Hey Wolfee....The hard evidence has gotto be 'harder' than the last one when Bush told the Saudi Ab-dool that he heard voices in his empty head, and of his 'god' telling him to attack Iraq.:laugh1:

And all this while it was good old Dick whimpering in his ears while dubyya lay passed out.:laugh1:

you've not only got jokers for presidents, but now war criminals.

[Wolfe117]

Yeah no shiit sherlock!:rolleyes2:

But its the sunni militia's and insurgents that are busting your boys.

You are fighting for the shia militia's.;)

Now Bush terrorist doesn't like the situation which has by default elevated Iran, so he is pissed that someone else is reaping the windfall for dying American soldiers.:laugh1:

Isn't that right AK-54?:laugh1:

We are counting on the U.S forces to keep up the 'crusade', and keep up the good work. You are all heroes for Iran, and wont be forgotten. Thank you America, for fighting unpaid on Iran's behalf.:laugh1:

And while you guys are fighting for Iran.......keep looking for that elusive WMD proof, as no one believes your Bullshiit after the prank on Iraq.


That's not entirely accurate about the Shia, Sunni militia thing. Sure Sunni militias have been mroe of a problem in recent years however, the Shia militias are just as bad.

My friend who served there has been shot at and has fired back and killed Shia militiamen. He deffinetly wasn't fighting for them.

Again this is a bloody conflict and isn't a laughing matter. We have to look at this seriously and maturely, there is dying on all sides. It isn't something to mock.

[Wolfe117]

Hey Wolfee....The hard evidence has gotto be 'harder' than the last one when Bush told the Saudi Ab-dool that he heard voices in his empty head, and of his 'god' telling him to attack Iraq.:laugh1:

And all this while it was good old Dick whimpering in his ears while dubyya lay passed out.:laugh1:

you've not only got jokers for presidents, but now war criminals.


I doubt that happened. And my name is pronounced Wolf, as in the animal. The E is silent.

I question the validity of your claims, the situation is much more dark and serious than you make it out to be.

[lulldapull]

That's not entirely accurate about the Shia, Sunni militia thing. Sure Sunni militias have been mroe of a problem in recent years however, the Shia militias are just as bad.

My friend who served there has been shot at and has fired back and killed Shia militiamen. He deffinetly wasn't fighting for them.

Again this is a bloody conflict and isn't a laughing matter. We have to look at this seriously and maturely, there is dying on all sides. It isn't something to mock.

Wolfee, all the Bullshiit aside.....! So as long as you keep up the fight, and keep killing them insurgents and Taliban...you have Iran's support. But if you stop doing that, then you're fired!:) I am sure you'd like to keep your job........

You have our support, and blessings.:biggrin1: Fight on buddy!.....More power to you.

[Wolfe117]

Wolfee, all the Bullshiit aside.....! So as long as you keep up the fight, and keep killing them insurgents and Taliban...you have Iran's support. But if you stop doing that, then you're fired!:) I am sure you'd like to keep your job........

You have our support, and blessings.:biggrin1: Fight on buddy!.....More power to you.

The Taliban are a threat to both Iran and Canada. There's no hope for them in Afghanistan anymore.

[lulldapull]

The Taliban are a threat to both Iran and Canada. There's no hope for them in Afghanistan anymore.

Good God Wolfee......You Cannuck?:)

aaaah.......regarding Taliban......have you heard of the old saying......'what goes around, comes around' ?:)

And i strongly disagree with your notion that 'there's no hope for them' part. In all honesty Karzai's days are numbered, and the Taliban will fight to death. they have defeated Pakistani army in the tribal areas, and now are focused on defeating you.

Well, when you guys were arming them and training them to become terrorists to kill iranians back in 1980's and 90's this thought didn't occur to you that they were going to kill innocent ppl?:)

Mr Wolfee, truth is that the U.S., and all these terrorist western countries have become entangled in their own terrorist web.

Now you enjoy it.

P.S. my friendly suggestion to you still would be to get out of Afghanistan. It's a proven graveyard for all empires.

[Wolfe117]

Good God Wolfee......You Cannuck?:)

aaaah.......regarding Taliban......have you heard of the old saying......'what goes around, comes around' ?:) Exactly true and the taliban is getting what was coming to it.


And i strongly disagree with your notion that 'there's no hope for them' part. In all honesty Karzai's days are numbered, and the Taliban will fight to death. they have defeated Pakistani army in the tribal areas, and now are focused on defeating you.

Well I guess there's a difference between you and I, I've seen first hand what the situation here is like, you only listen to news about what's happening. Believe me the Taliban's position isn't as strong as you might think it is.


Well, when you guys were arming them and training them to become terrorists to kill iranians back in 1980's and 90's this thought didn't occur to you that they were going to kill innocent ppl?:)

There you go with the you guys again. I'm not American man, my country is Canada. We NEVER armed or trained Taliban at any point in history.

And if they did kill innocent Iranians, like we all know they did, then why does it seem like you support the Taliban winning?


Mr Wolfee, truth is that the U.S., and all these terrorist western countries have become entangled in their own terrorist web.


So you're calling my country, Canada, a terrorist western country?! If that's the case then you don't know very much about my national history nor do you seem to understand what the word terrorist means. Terrorists are those who hide ammong civilian populations, target innocents to maximize casualties for their own political, religious or ideological gain. That's the definition I use, I'm not sure if you were aware of that.

At no point in Canada's history have we ever engaged in terrorism as a nation.



So what are you saying? You WANT the Taliban to be back in control here? To cut off peoples hands for stealing? To throw acid in women's faces for not wearing the burka? Or to generally just cause more harm and tyranny to the Afghan people? Please tell me what it is you are in support of because if you believe the Taliban should win here then we really have nothing to talk about.

[lulldapull]

wolfee baby, whether I support or hate the taliban is irrelevant. Its pretty obvious I hate the Taliban as they represent illiterate and wahabbi Islam. but that has nothing to do with them defeating the ISAF and NATO forces in Afghanistan.

The defeat of NATO/ ISAF and U.S. in Afghanistan is inevitable! Separate the reality from wishful thinking, please.

You can't frigging win.

[Shiraz]

Good God Wolfee......You Cannuck?:)

aaaah.......regarding Taliban......have you heard of the old saying......'what goes around, comes around' ?:)

And i strongly disagree with your notion that 'there's no hope for them' part. In all honesty Karzai's days are numbered, and the Taliban will fight to death. they have defeated Pakistani army in the tribal areas, and now are focused on defeating you.

Well, when you guys were arming them and training them to become terrorists to kill iranians back in 1980's and 90's this thought didn't occur to you that they were going to kill innocent ppl?:)

Mr Wolfee, truth is that the U.S., and all these terrorist western countries have become entangled in their own terrorist web.

Now you enjoy it.

P.S. my friendly suggestion to you still would be to get out of Afghanistan. It's a proven graveyard for all empires.

The Taliban defeated Pakistani army in tribal areas? Get out of your dreams dude... Pakistan isn't interested to fight the dirty war of US so it obviously backed off. Just because your anti-Pakistan doesn't mean that you also have to lie now.

The best chopper is the AH-1W / AH-1Z Super Cobra.

[perisan_eagle]

Apache is by far the most advanced just by looking at its track record

and please no one here bring the the countless russian choppers which have been shot down in aghanistan and chenya

[Sajjad]

Apache is by far the most advanced just by looking at its track record

and please no one here bring the the countless russian choppers which have been shot down in aghanistan and chenya

Just because pilots not as good as others is not meaning Russian helicopter is worse than Apache. We are speaking on the helicopter itself.

[lulldapull]

The Taliban defeated Pakistani army in tribal areas? Get out of your dreams dude... Pakistan isn't interested to fight the dirty war of US so it obviously backed off. Just because your anti-Pakistan doesn't mean that you also have to lie now.

The best chopper is the AH-1W / AH-1Z Super Cobra.

Mr 'Shiraz'.....get a clue. Pakistan's mercenary army on the U.S. dole and after so much pushing and prodding finally agreed to deploy forces in FATA areas, and the Pukhtooon beat the living shiit out of them in mountainous guerilla warfare.:laugh4:

musharraf zaleel got humiliated and had to withdraw after claiming a peace agreement with the militants?:laugh4:

More than a 1000 pakistani soldiers died in Waziristan area.

Comeon.....don't go into denial.

P.S. You can't fight in that area, and not those ppl! Many have tried....none succeeded.

http://inbrief.threatswatch.org/2006/09/pakistan-cedes-north-wazirista/

And for the uninformed Pakistani's here, truth is that more than 100 U.S. choppers have been shot down in Iraq and Afghansitan since this war started, with six (including 3 Apache's) shot down in the last 3 weeks alone. Don't get delusional on yourselves.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16843652/site/newsweek/

[attitude]

This is Japan's new indigenous attack/recon Helicopter
http://www.irandefence.net/gallery/data/501/90fh1.jpg
i have no idea what its called

[Shiraz]

Mr 'Shiraz'.....get a clue. Pakistan's mercenary army on the U.S. dole and after so much pushing and prodding finally agreed to deploy forces in FATA areas, and the Pukhtooon beat the living shiit out of them in mountainous guerilla warfare.:laugh4:

musharraf zaleel got humiliated and had to withdraw after claiming a peace agreement with the militants?:laugh4:

More than a 1000 pakistani soldiers died in Waziristan area.

Comeon.....don't go into denial.

P.S. You can't fight in that area, and not those ppl! Many have tried....none succeeded.

http://inbrief.threatswatch.org/2006/09/pakistan-cedes-north-wazirista/

And for the uninformed Pakistani's here, truth is that more than 100 U.S. choppers have been shot down in Iraq and Afghansitan since this war started, with six (including 3 Apache's) shot down in the last 3 weeks alone. Don't get delusional on yourselves.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16843652/site/newsweek/

I know that the role of Pakistani leadership hasn’t always been kosher. I’m not denying that. Many wrong political decisions have been made in the past and are still being made, which is regrettable. No one is clean so to speak. Blaming won’t solve anything though.

Besides, your arguments don’t hold any weight. The West is blaming Pakistan for supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan. How can you go on to say that the same Taliban is butchering the Pakistan army? Casualties happen, if that’s what you meant.

The U.S. loosing 100 choppers has nothing to do with the success of Pakistan defeating the warlords in their own house.

As far as I know, Pakistan lost a couple of hundred soldiers in the areas that you’re referring to. Pakistan army indeed is cleaning house in the tribal areas by terminating criminal and rouge elements, which are even willing to sell their dirty souls to the enemy. Those aren’t the Taliban. The so-called tribal elders that are supposedly willing to fight for their people are nothing but a bunch of cowards and liars. These bloody warmongers want to enslave their folks and remain onto power. These backward warlords have oppressed their very own people over the past decades. This evil must be rooted out at all cost. Bugti was one, many will follow soon. We will succeed in the end.

Let’s not turn this thread into a Pakistan vs the rest thread. We already have too many of them. I hereby rest my case.

[Azarakash]

Is that Wolfe a banned member?

[shiroyeh]

The Tiger Attack Heli for me

[payam]

i think AH-64A/D Apache Attack Helicopter, USA

[Shiraz]

Is that Wolfe a banned member?

Be specific...

[Tbagger]

This is Japan's new indigenous attack/recon Helicopter
http://www.irandefence.net/gallery/data/501/90fh1.jpg
i have no idea what its called
Is it in service with the JSDF?

They already have the latest version of the Apache.

[MEC_FORCES]

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

[MEC_FORCES]

Nice crash pics. Attack helicopters are in my opinion state sponsored terrorist weapons esepcially the way the US is using them in Iraq and Afghanistan. Any modern army just needs to tap them with a rocket or a few 30mm shells and let gravity do the rest.

This is the result of small calibre fire on these Pave low's and AH-64's by the Iraqi insurgents. The attack Helicopter has become very vulnerable to ground fire. If the Iraqi insurgents are shooting down so many with crude weapons and minimal training....can you guys imagine how many U.S. choppers would get shot down if they ever attacked iran?:laugh1:

Look at this:

[IMG]
I have no more faith in attack choppers anymore. They always get shot down. These two were among the 4 that got shot down last week.

Also my vote goes to the Ka-50/52, as not only it has serious manouverability, but also ejection seats! At least you will live to fight another day, and not die like in those Apache's and cobra's, like these Marine corps and Army pilots. All dozens of pilots and other occupants who got shot down in those 4 choppers died!

[Mickey]

In your opinion attack helos are state sponsored terrorist weapons, especially the way the US is using them in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Is there any reason for that other than that the non-state sponsored terrorists can't afford them?
In otherwords, are ALL expensive weapons state sponsored terrorist weapons?
Do you even know what the term "terrorist" means?

[JEskandari]

Ka-50 Black Shark Attack Helicopter, Russia is the best no one can deny its superior fire power and its armor.

WEAPON SYSTEMS
The Ka-50 helicopter is fitted with observation and sighting systems together with navigation, communication and other systems to enable one crew-member to pilot and engage hostile forces in combat. A combination of various armaments to a maximum weapon load of 2 tons are selected according to the mission, including anti-tank missiles, unguided aerial rockets of different calibres, air-to-air missiles, guns, bombs and other weapons.
The helicopter has small mid-mounted wings fitted with four underwing suspension units and wingtip countermeasures pods. Up to 12 Vikhr supersonic antitank missiles can be mounted on the helicopter's two underwing external stores.
The missiles are automatically guided to the selected air or ground target using laser beam riding and feature a high degree of jam resistance. The Vikhr missile has a target hit probability close to one, against a tank at a range of up to 8 km. The kill probability is also rated very highly with the capability of penetrating all types of armour including active armour up to 900 mm thick.
The Ka-50 is armed with a 2A42 quick-firing 30-mm gun which has an unrestricted azimuth and elevation range mounting for use against airborne or ground targets. The gun is mounted near the centre of gravity of the helicopter for consistent accuracy. The gun is equipped with 460 rounds of ammunition, two types being carried, high-fragmentation and explosive incendiary rounds and armour-piercing rounds. The pilot selects the type of ammunition in flight. The weight of the ammunition is 0.39 kg each round, the muzzle velocity is 980 m/s and the range is up to 4 km. The gun provides an angular firing accuracy of 2 to 4 mrad.
AVIONICS
Flight systems include inertial navigation system (INS), autopilot and head-up display (HUD). Sensors include FLIR (forward-looking infrared) and terrain-following radar.
COUNTERMEASURES
Ka-50 is fitted with radar warning receiver, electronic warfare system and chaff and flare dispenser.
ENGINES
The Ka-50 is powered by two TV3-117VMA turboshafts engines each providing 2,200 horsepower. The power plant is fitted with deflectors and separators to prevent dust ingestion in the air intakes which protects the engines from wear when taking off from unprepared sites. The engines are placed on either side of the fuselage to enhance the combat survivability. The helicopter also has an auxiliary power unit (APU) for self-contained operation.
CO-AXIAL ROTORS
The coaxial rotor design provides a hovering ceiling of 4,000 metres and vertical rate of climb of 10 metres per second at an altitude of 2,500 metres. The rotor blades are made from polymer materials. The hingeless main rotor head requires no lubrication.
The coaxial-rotor configuration results in moments of inertia values relative to vertical and lateral axes being between 1.5 to 2 times less than the values found in conventionally designed combat single rotor helicopters with tailrotors. Absence of the tail rotor enables the helicopter to perform flat turns within the entire flight speed range. A maximum vertical g-load of 3.5 combined with low moments of inertia give the Ka-50 a high level of agility and manoeuverability.
SURVIVABILITY
Two separately mounted engines at a maximum distance reduce the probability of their simultaneous damage. The powerplant has an operational life 30 minutes without oil, giving the pilot the opportunity to land in a safe location in the event that the oil system is damaged in combat. The helicopter also has duplicated and stand-by hydraulic and power systems and main control circuits.
Extensive all-round armour installed in the cockpit protects the pilot against 12.7 mm armour piercing bullets and 23 mm projectile fragments. The rotor blades are rated to withstand several hits of ground-based automatic weapons providing the capability of safe flight completion after sustaining impact.
Protection of fuel tanks against explosion hazards and fuel leakage is provided by porous fuel tank fillers and fuel tank self-sealing covers, and a comprehensive fire extinguishing system is installed. Engine exhaust heat screens reduce the thermal signature of the helicopter and flare dispensers protect the helicopter against heatseeking missiles.
The Ka-50 is the world's first operational helicopter with a rescue ejection system, which allows pilot to escape at all altitudes and speeds. The K-37-800 Rocket Assisted Ejection System is manufactured by the Zvezda Research and Production Enterprise Joint Stock Company in the Moscow Region. The seat operates by pulling the pilot from the helicopter cabin using a solid-propellant rocket motor. The system comprises the seat, a control unit and a pullout rocket motor. The seat is fitted with a survival pack containing an NAZ-7M survival kit, a life raft and a PS-37A parachute system. The seat provides safe forced emergency escape from helicopters in the speed range 0 to 350 km/hour and at altitude 0 to 6,000 metres. The seat also provides safe ejection during inverted flight (at speeds 0 to 330 km/h with zero vertical velocity) at a minimum altitude of 90 metres.
MAINTENANCE
Built in test and diagnostics equipment ensures fast maintenance turnaround time. Under operational conditions the helicopter has a 12-day combat availability with minimum maintenance during off-base deployment.

SPECIFICATION KA-50 BLACK SHARK Dimensions
Main rotor diameter 14.5 metres Length with rotating rotors 15.9 metres Overall height 4.9 metres Wing span 7.3 metres Weights
Empty weight 7,692 kg Normal take off weight 9,800 kg Maximum take off weight 10,800 kg Weight of consumable combat load 610 kg Weight of maximum combat load 1,811 kg Engines
Two TV3-117VMA engines 2 x 2,200 h.p Landing gear Retractable tricycle nosewheel type landing gear Performance
Maximum level flight speed 310 km/h Diving speed 390 km/h Cruise speed 270 km/h Hovering ceiling 4,000 metres Service ceiling 5,500 metres Vertical rate of climb at 2,500 m 10 m/s; Range of flight with normal take-off 460 km Weight
Ferry range 1,160 km
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-1.jpg
Ka-50 Black Shark Attack Helicopter on patrol.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-2.jpg
The Ka-50 upgrade combat helicopter will receive a new cockpit including helmet mounted sensors, night vision goggles, weapons and flight data display systems.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-3.jpg
A combination of various armaments to a maximum combat weapon load of 2 tons are selected according to the combat mission.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-4.jpg
The engine with both exhaust heat suppressors and deflectors as well as separators to prevent dust ingestion in the air intakes
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-5.jpg
The coaxial rotor design provides a hovering ceiling of 4,000 metres and vertical rate of climb of 10 metres per second at an altitude of 2,500 metres.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-6.jpg
The Ka-50 is armed with a 2A42 quick-firing 30mm gun. The gun is mounted near the centre of gravity of the helicopter for consistent accuracy.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-7.jpg

[sky_warrior]

my vote goes AH-64D.it have strongest weapons.and systems.

[Andysol]

The Ka-50 is a Russian single-seat attack helicopter, designed as a gunship. It was designed by the Kamov company starting in the 1980s and adopted for service in the Russian army in 1995. It is manufactured by the Progress company of Arseniev. Its NATO reporting name is Hokum A; the first prototype was nicknamed "Werewolf", however Kamov's official name for the type is "Black Shark". As the Soviet Union's collapse vastly reduced military spending before Ka-50 could go into full-scale production, a relatively small number of these aircraft have been built, even though it beat Mil's rival Mi-28 "Havoc" in virtually all the tests in the contest for the Red Army's next attack helicopter. Reportedly Ka-50's development took place in record time, as Kamov had the forethought of placing liaison engineers at major component suppliers and systems subcontractors. Finally, Ka-50 and its modifications have been chosen as the special forces support helicopter while Mi-28 has become main army's gunship. The production of Ka-50 has been recommenced in 2006.

It is the only helicopter in the world to achieve the following pedigree:

* World's first and only single seat attack helicopter
* World's first co-axial attack helicopter*
* World's first attack helicopter with zero-zero ejection seat*

[Behrooz Boonabi]

Ka-50 Black Shark Attack Helicopter, Russia is the best no one can deny its superior fire power and its armor.

WEAPON SYSTEMS
The Ka-50 helicopter is fitted with observation and sighting systems together with navigation, communication and other systems to enable one crew-member to pilot and engage hostile forces in combat. A combination of various armaments to a maximum weapon load of 2 tons are selected according to the mission, including anti-tank missiles, unguided aerial rockets of different calibres, air-to-air missiles, guns, bombs and other weapons.
The helicopter has small mid-mounted wings fitted with four underwing suspension units and wingtip countermeasures pods. Up to 12 Vikhr supersonic antitank missiles can be mounted on the helicopter's two underwing external stores.
The missiles are automatically guided to the selected air or ground target using laser beam riding and feature a high degree of jam resistance. The Vikhr missile has a target hit probability close to one, against a tank at a range of up to 8 km. The kill probability is also rated very highly with the capability of penetrating all types of armour including active armour up to 900 mm thick.
The Ka-50 is armed with a 2A42 quick-firing 30-mm gun which has an unrestricted azimuth and elevation range mounting for use against airborne or ground targets. The gun is mounted near the centre of gravity of the helicopter for consistent accuracy. The gun is equipped with 460 rounds of ammunition, two types being carried, high-fragmentation and explosive incendiary rounds and armour-piercing rounds. The pilot selects the type of ammunition in flight. The weight of the ammunition is 0.39 kg each round, the muzzle velocity is 980 m/s and the range is up to 4 km. The gun provides an angular firing accuracy of 2 to 4 mrad.
AVIONICS
Flight systems include inertial navigation system (INS), autopilot and head-up display (HUD). Sensors include FLIR (forward-looking infrared) and terrain-following radar.
COUNTERMEASURES
Ka-50 is fitted with radar warning receiver, electronic warfare system and chaff and flare dispenser.
ENGINES
The Ka-50 is powered by two TV3-117VMA turboshafts engines each providing 2,200 horsepower. The power plant is fitted with deflectors and separators to prevent dust ingestion in the air intakes which protects the engines from wear when taking off from unprepared sites. The engines are placed on either side of the fuselage to enhance the combat survivability. The helicopter also has an auxiliary power unit (APU) for self-contained operation.
CO-AXIAL ROTORS
The coaxial rotor design provides a hovering ceiling of 4,000 metres and vertical rate of climb of 10 metres per second at an altitude of 2,500 metres. The rotor blades are made from polymer materials. The hingeless main rotor head requires no lubrication.
The coaxial-rotor configuration results in moments of inertia values relative to vertical and lateral axes being between 1.5 to 2 times less than the values found in conventionally designed combat single rotor helicopters with tailrotors. Absence of the tail rotor enables the helicopter to perform flat turns within the entire flight speed range. A maximum vertical g-load of 3.5 combined with low moments of inertia give the Ka-50 a high level of agility and manoeuverability.
SURVIVABILITY
Two separately mounted engines at a maximum distance reduce the probability of their simultaneous damage. The powerplant has an operational life 30 minutes without oil, giving the pilot the opportunity to land in a safe location in the event that the oil system is damaged in combat. The helicopter also has duplicated and stand-by hydraulic and power systems and main control circuits.
Extensive all-round armour installed in the cockpit protects the pilot against 12.7 mm armour piercing bullets and 23 mm projectile fragments. The rotor blades are rated to withstand several hits of ground-based automatic weapons providing the capability of safe flight completion after sustaining impact.
Protection of fuel tanks against explosion hazards and fuel leakage is provided by porous fuel tank fillers and fuel tank self-sealing covers, and a comprehensive fire extinguishing system is installed. Engine exhaust heat screens reduce the thermal signature of the helicopter and flare dispensers protect the helicopter against heatseeking missiles.
The Ka-50 is the world's first operational helicopter with a rescue ejection system, which allows pilot to escape at all altitudes and speeds. The K-37-800 Rocket Assisted Ejection System is manufactured by the Zvezda Research and Production Enterprise Joint Stock Company in the Moscow Region. The seat operates by pulling the pilot from the helicopter cabin using a solid-propellant rocket motor. The system comprises the seat, a control unit and a pullout rocket motor. The seat is fitted with a survival pack containing an NAZ-7M survival kit, a life raft and a PS-37A parachute system. The seat provides safe forced emergency escape from helicopters in the speed range 0 to 350 km/hour and at altitude 0 to 6,000 metres. The seat also provides safe ejection during inverted flight (at speeds 0 to 330 km/h with zero vertical velocity) at a minimum altitude of 90 metres.
MAINTENANCE
Built in test and diagnostics equipment ensures fast maintenance turnaround time. Under operational conditions the helicopter has a 12-day combat availability with minimum maintenance during off-base deployment.

SPECIFICATION KA-50 BLACK SHARK Dimensions
Main rotor diameter 14.5 metres Length with rotating rotors 15.9 metres Overall height 4.9 metres Wing span 7.3 metres Weights
Empty weight 7,692 kg Normal take off weight 9,800 kg Maximum take off weight 10,800 kg Weight of consumable combat load 610 kg Weight of maximum combat load 1,811 kg Engines
Two TV3-117VMA engines 2 x 2,200 h.p Landing gear Retractable tricycle nosewheel type landing gear Performance
Maximum level flight speed 310 km/h Diving speed 390 km/h Cruise speed 270 km/h Hovering ceiling 4,000 metres Service ceiling 5,500 metres Vertical rate of climb at 2,500 m 10 m/s; Range of flight with normal take-off 460 km Weight
Ferry range 1,160 km
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-1.jpg
Ka-50 Black Shark Attack Helicopter on patrol.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-2.jpg
The Ka-50 upgrade combat helicopter will receive a new cockpit including helmet mounted sensors, night vision goggles, weapons and flight data display systems.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-3.jpg
A combination of various armaments to a maximum combat weapon load of 2 tons are selected according to the combat mission.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-4.jpg
The engine with both exhaust heat suppressors and deflectors as well as separators to prevent dust ingestion in the air intakes
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-5.jpg
The coaxial rotor design provides a hovering ceiling of 4,000 metres and vertical rate of climb of 10 metres per second at an altitude of 2,500 metres.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-6.jpg
The Ka-50 is armed with a 2A42 quick-firing 30mm gun. The gun is mounted near the centre of gravity of the helicopter for consistent accuracy.
http://www.defencejournal.com/dec98/images/ka50-7.jpg

I have to say that this one in black is the most beautiful.

[Technicaldeathstrike]

where is comanche

but I'll vote Cobra...or Hind.

[Falco]

where is comanche
the comanche isnt in the list because it isnt one of the major attack helicopters! the project was canceled!

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

This is Japan's new indigenous attack/recon Helicopter
http://www.irandefence.net/gallery/data/501/90fh1.jpg
i have no idea what its calledThat would be the Kawasaki OH-1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_OH-1

I think it's more a Recon chopper than an attack one. I've always assumed OH means Observation Helicopter.Is it in service with the JSDF?
It is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_OH-1

Four have entered service so far, complementing the fleet of nearly 300 OH-6.

First flight was in 1996.