Alex
02-06-2007, 04:49 PM
I am able to mention certain things and unable to mention others, regarding the latest Iranian Fighter-Jet project. So please be patient, and please clearly read what I have written so that you do not get yourselves into a frenzy of irrelevant postings that serve nothing but emotional outbursts.
Iranian Aviators, Engineers, Mechanics, Project Managers, and Designers think, feel, react, and respond differently to circumstances that their counterparts in Europe and US. You must first understand this before you can comprehend how Iran chooses its projects (aircrafts or otherwise) and how it manages it, and develops its strategic needs and tactical requirements. These individuals that I am referring to are extremely sharp, very very knowledgeable, and would surprise all of you in terms of their depth and breadth as Aviators and Designers.
Additionally, Iran has multiple characters in its R+D, Project Selection and Funding, Requirements Analysis, and Strategic Needs. Each of these characters decide individually (almost) and headspear their projects based its interpretations and its own tranformations during the progress of a particular project. This is important since, as oppose to the European/US projects, the Iranian ones change shape almost daily and have to re-engineer themselves and their needs and project requirements. Although this is not constructive it is amazing to consider how Iran's characters have evolved through this intense amount of chaos and disorder to become excellent at managing a chaotic organization. Believe it or not, this does have some strategic advantage against US.
One of the characters in Iran is desparately sending signals to US through the projects that it funds, backs, supports, initiates, promotes, advertises, etc. that IRAN CAN DO IT. Now, "IT" refers to many projects that Iran and US had planned to perform together prior to 1979. The "IT" projects refer to Saeghae, Shabaviz, Shahed 274, etc. The groups that are unified and build this 'character' in Iran's Aviation are quite well known to many of you, no doubt.
There are many other Army, Navy, Airforce etc. projects in Iran. Some of the other characters do not necessarily disclose where they are in terms of their capabilities. They also have nothing to brag about, and nothing to show off about. They are extremely focused and highly competant individuals and organizations, both private and non-private, and they are the highest pillars of Iran's avaiation characters (and most of the groups within each characters are quite autonomous in funding). Again, many of you no doubt know which organizations I am referring to.
Now it is well known, by many top level Iranian ex-IIAF and current IRIAF that the project managers of top strategic programs in Iran release enough information for strategic reasons. These reasons could include, amoung many others, 1) to recruitment of top Iranian engineers and aviators outside Iran; 2) to attract funding from Iranian sources outside Iran; 3) to retain many of the great engineers in the robotics and technology sector of the Iranian universities, etc. etc.
One such project that keep many Iranian engineers excited and funders supportive is a project from 1999/2000 called the Morgh Ashura. This is an aircraft that "RESEMBLES PARTS OF THE AIRCRAFTS YF22-SU27SK-Chineese Stealth Fighter". PLEASE read my statement very carefully so that you don't exhust yourselves in fancy assumptions. I said it 'RESEMBLES", mainly in looks. I could be referring to air intake of one, wing design of the other, or such PARTial comparisons to give an overall impressive of the aircraft. This aircraft has some very advance features (I would call it 5th Generation), and some parts that are 4th generation, and some parts that are very old and engineers are working on all of these parts to bring to the most current level of technology and to integrate all these cohesively and intelligently.
In particular, the 3-linear directional thrust is quite interesting and it was something that German engineers perfected in mid 1980's when they were considering such technology for their version of the Eurofighter 2000. The other technology that I believe is quite interesting is the computer integration, although this is not 5th generation, it is indeed advance enough (at least in my opinion) to cause concern for adversaries. Also, Iran's knowledge and experience in stealth (and believe it or not Iran does have quite a bit of knowledge and experience in this from the days of fooling Americans into thinking that Mig-25 was a threat) and this has been used quite extensively (surprisingly) in the design aspects of this project. This aircraft will have many composite materials incorporated in its design, it will be somewhat stealthy, will have BVR capability, and it is aimed that it will also have very excellent maitenance ratios. All of this is yet to be proven, so don't jump up and down your chair. It is a process of trial and error and a balance between US threats vs. perseverance of Iran's engineers/designers/funders and people.
Before you start getting into emotional reactions ("No Iran can't do it", "Yes Iran has built an aircraft the level of F/A22, F35", etc), please consider that Iran's aircraft (although it is actually 3 different modular designs) has only reached the basic level of prototype AT DESIGN STAGE, i.e. there is no one single actual-size aircraft yet. Only 3 smaller size (70ish%) prototypes exist, and a dozen even smaller (very small) Unmanned versions are used for testing, design improvements, etc.
This aircraft is quite an impressive endeavor by one of the Iranian 'character's and although Iran would need at least 5 more years to bring this into production of an actual size prototype, it is Iran's attempt to jump a few generations into the 4th and 4.5 generation aircraft development. In the next 10 years Iran will become a SWEDEN level aircraft designer and builder, although with more self-sufficiency than that of Sweden (Sweden purchases many of its parts from GE, Rolls Royce, etc.).
Iran also has many other projects that it is working on. As recently as 2003, it (politicians) has started to organize and 'respect' the military industry of Iran. More and more funding is being devoted to this and the industry is given more autonomy and more resources and priority. It is assumed that Iran needs a two pronged approach for self defence. This part (conventional airforce, army, and navy) had previously not received much priority - other than for maintenance and support. Now R+D is given a very high priority in the recent years.
Please read the above statements very carefully before you knock yourselves out with assumptions, exagerations and/or rebuttals.
Finally, I decided to make this post because I read all the postings in this thread. And tragically, I think people like to argue about things that simply only jackasses would argue about. Most of the accusations and simplifications can be addressed with a tiny little bit of research or a visit to a local library or a local bookstore, or just reading in the more correct and knowledgeable websites with professionals who know about these things and have been involved in Iran's aviation for 35+ years.
Regretably I am making this outburst to encourage you all to search within yourselves to bring out the very highest levels of intelect that I believe you all possess and you can also hold yourselves at the highest levels and encourage each other to be holden to the highest levels of knowledge, intelect, and correct analysation of facts and figures rather than emotion and frustration. Iranians are indeed some of the smartest people on earth. With a very small minority in both US and Europe, Iranians are one of the richest and most educated minorities. In Iran, the engineers have done so much with so little. So isn't about time that you all respect one another, work with each other, come together, accept each other over others (outsiders), and work to have your own mark on history? Isn't time that the only ancient superpower in history that grew by cooperation and collaboration with its neighbors (instead of concurring) now brings the same cooperation and collaboration to its own citizens for the welfare of its people and the future of its nation? Should Iranians continue to bicker and squabble over scraps while the superpowers divide and concur Iran and Iranians and their wealth? Do you wish to continue the outright rape of your natural resources - yes i mean continue ... the British raped Iran's resources for 68 years which paid for their kids free national health service and free college education and now Europe and Russia are selling the things Iran needs (in the Oil and Gas industry) six times the going price on the open market while buying Iranian oil (by Shell recently) 10$-15$ below price?
What would happen if 300,000 highly educated (many professors) in US and Europe went back to Iran, and the wealthy Iranians with assets close to 850$ Billion also returned to Iran?
These are questions that only Iranians can answer, and only one individual at a time.
Iran. The willing led by the unknowing doing the impossibe for the ungreatful.
credit goes to seanmccarry who wrote this.
Iranian Aviators, Engineers, Mechanics, Project Managers, and Designers think, feel, react, and respond differently to circumstances that their counterparts in Europe and US. You must first understand this before you can comprehend how Iran chooses its projects (aircrafts or otherwise) and how it manages it, and develops its strategic needs and tactical requirements. These individuals that I am referring to are extremely sharp, very very knowledgeable, and would surprise all of you in terms of their depth and breadth as Aviators and Designers.
Additionally, Iran has multiple characters in its R+D, Project Selection and Funding, Requirements Analysis, and Strategic Needs. Each of these characters decide individually (almost) and headspear their projects based its interpretations and its own tranformations during the progress of a particular project. This is important since, as oppose to the European/US projects, the Iranian ones change shape almost daily and have to re-engineer themselves and their needs and project requirements. Although this is not constructive it is amazing to consider how Iran's characters have evolved through this intense amount of chaos and disorder to become excellent at managing a chaotic organization. Believe it or not, this does have some strategic advantage against US.
One of the characters in Iran is desparately sending signals to US through the projects that it funds, backs, supports, initiates, promotes, advertises, etc. that IRAN CAN DO IT. Now, "IT" refers to many projects that Iran and US had planned to perform together prior to 1979. The "IT" projects refer to Saeghae, Shabaviz, Shahed 274, etc. The groups that are unified and build this 'character' in Iran's Aviation are quite well known to many of you, no doubt.
There are many other Army, Navy, Airforce etc. projects in Iran. Some of the other characters do not necessarily disclose where they are in terms of their capabilities. They also have nothing to brag about, and nothing to show off about. They are extremely focused and highly competant individuals and organizations, both private and non-private, and they are the highest pillars of Iran's avaiation characters (and most of the groups within each characters are quite autonomous in funding). Again, many of you no doubt know which organizations I am referring to.
Now it is well known, by many top level Iranian ex-IIAF and current IRIAF that the project managers of top strategic programs in Iran release enough information for strategic reasons. These reasons could include, amoung many others, 1) to recruitment of top Iranian engineers and aviators outside Iran; 2) to attract funding from Iranian sources outside Iran; 3) to retain many of the great engineers in the robotics and technology sector of the Iranian universities, etc. etc.
One such project that keep many Iranian engineers excited and funders supportive is a project from 1999/2000 called the Morgh Ashura. This is an aircraft that "RESEMBLES PARTS OF THE AIRCRAFTS YF22-SU27SK-Chineese Stealth Fighter". PLEASE read my statement very carefully so that you don't exhust yourselves in fancy assumptions. I said it 'RESEMBLES", mainly in looks. I could be referring to air intake of one, wing design of the other, or such PARTial comparisons to give an overall impressive of the aircraft. This aircraft has some very advance features (I would call it 5th Generation), and some parts that are 4th generation, and some parts that are very old and engineers are working on all of these parts to bring to the most current level of technology and to integrate all these cohesively and intelligently.
In particular, the 3-linear directional thrust is quite interesting and it was something that German engineers perfected in mid 1980's when they were considering such technology for their version of the Eurofighter 2000. The other technology that I believe is quite interesting is the computer integration, although this is not 5th generation, it is indeed advance enough (at least in my opinion) to cause concern for adversaries. Also, Iran's knowledge and experience in stealth (and believe it or not Iran does have quite a bit of knowledge and experience in this from the days of fooling Americans into thinking that Mig-25 was a threat) and this has been used quite extensively (surprisingly) in the design aspects of this project. This aircraft will have many composite materials incorporated in its design, it will be somewhat stealthy, will have BVR capability, and it is aimed that it will also have very excellent maitenance ratios. All of this is yet to be proven, so don't jump up and down your chair. It is a process of trial and error and a balance between US threats vs. perseverance of Iran's engineers/designers/funders and people.
Before you start getting into emotional reactions ("No Iran can't do it", "Yes Iran has built an aircraft the level of F/A22, F35", etc), please consider that Iran's aircraft (although it is actually 3 different modular designs) has only reached the basic level of prototype AT DESIGN STAGE, i.e. there is no one single actual-size aircraft yet. Only 3 smaller size (70ish%) prototypes exist, and a dozen even smaller (very small) Unmanned versions are used for testing, design improvements, etc.
This aircraft is quite an impressive endeavor by one of the Iranian 'character's and although Iran would need at least 5 more years to bring this into production of an actual size prototype, it is Iran's attempt to jump a few generations into the 4th and 4.5 generation aircraft development. In the next 10 years Iran will become a SWEDEN level aircraft designer and builder, although with more self-sufficiency than that of Sweden (Sweden purchases many of its parts from GE, Rolls Royce, etc.).
Iran also has many other projects that it is working on. As recently as 2003, it (politicians) has started to organize and 'respect' the military industry of Iran. More and more funding is being devoted to this and the industry is given more autonomy and more resources and priority. It is assumed that Iran needs a two pronged approach for self defence. This part (conventional airforce, army, and navy) had previously not received much priority - other than for maintenance and support. Now R+D is given a very high priority in the recent years.
Please read the above statements very carefully before you knock yourselves out with assumptions, exagerations and/or rebuttals.
Finally, I decided to make this post because I read all the postings in this thread. And tragically, I think people like to argue about things that simply only jackasses would argue about. Most of the accusations and simplifications can be addressed with a tiny little bit of research or a visit to a local library or a local bookstore, or just reading in the more correct and knowledgeable websites with professionals who know about these things and have been involved in Iran's aviation for 35+ years.
Regretably I am making this outburst to encourage you all to search within yourselves to bring out the very highest levels of intelect that I believe you all possess and you can also hold yourselves at the highest levels and encourage each other to be holden to the highest levels of knowledge, intelect, and correct analysation of facts and figures rather than emotion and frustration. Iranians are indeed some of the smartest people on earth. With a very small minority in both US and Europe, Iranians are one of the richest and most educated minorities. In Iran, the engineers have done so much with so little. So isn't about time that you all respect one another, work with each other, come together, accept each other over others (outsiders), and work to have your own mark on history? Isn't time that the only ancient superpower in history that grew by cooperation and collaboration with its neighbors (instead of concurring) now brings the same cooperation and collaboration to its own citizens for the welfare of its people and the future of its nation? Should Iranians continue to bicker and squabble over scraps while the superpowers divide and concur Iran and Iranians and their wealth? Do you wish to continue the outright rape of your natural resources - yes i mean continue ... the British raped Iran's resources for 68 years which paid for their kids free national health service and free college education and now Europe and Russia are selling the things Iran needs (in the Oil and Gas industry) six times the going price on the open market while buying Iranian oil (by Shell recently) 10$-15$ below price?
What would happen if 300,000 highly educated (many professors) in US and Europe went back to Iran, and the wealthy Iranians with assets close to 850$ Billion also returned to Iran?
These are questions that only Iranians can answer, and only one individual at a time.
Iran. The willing led by the unknowing doing the impossibe for the ungreatful.
credit goes to seanmccarry who wrote this.