who are the Turks?

[snc128]

http://www.globaled.org/announcement050227.php

A curriculum guide aimed at understanding the state of Turkiye---its history, its evolution, its culture and its literature.

get ready for excellent photographs and illustrations.

[NEWUSER]

Oh uh.. where is payam? I'm surprised someone put the whole book online like that ... I'm downloading it right now, thanks!

[NEWUSER]

Just browsing through.... image below is from the book, page 136..

[Simorgh]

Just browsing through.... image below is from the book, page 136..


I dont get it. Now what and where is the connection to Turkish history?



:robo4:

[snc128]

I dont get it. Now what and where is the connection to Turkish history?



:robo4:



rather ,u take a look at to the pic at the page 16 in order to understand me better.then,ifu want sendme pm

[sayenforever]

Great story - they're are loads of 'Mullah Nasredin' stories...

One night, Nazrudin was on his hands and knees searching for his key in a well light area. Some of his neighbors came to see why Nazrudin was on his hands and knees.

“What are you looking for, Nazrudin?” enquired one of the neighbors. “My door key.” Came the reply.
The helpful neighbors drop to their hands and knees and joined Nasrudin in his search for the lost key.
After a long unsuccessful search, one of the neighbors asks: “We’ve looked everywhere. Are you sure you dropped it here?”
Nazrudin answers: “Of course I didn’t drop it here, I dropped it outside my door.”
“Then, why are you looking for it here!”
“Because there’s more light here,” responded Nazrudin.

[payam]

Better to ask who are ottomans
Im a bit busy and didn't see that ,but dont forget not attaching our history and culture to ur own one...be carefull

[Amir]

dont forget not attaching our history and culture to ur own one...be carefull


well said.

[payam]

also Nasredin Is Iranian....shame

[payam]

well said.

I 100% WAS SURE THEY ATTACHED IRANIAN HISTORY AND CULTURE to thier hisory IN THIS FILE......:roflmao3:
OTTOMANS ARE THE MOST LIERS I HAVE EVER SEEN...SHAME...just look what iranian are..all are robbering our culture...for ex in BBC arabic i saw they writte: abo ali sina is an arab!!!!...shame on our neighbors
but we must be proud of our country.....we have alot and other few...and just can be a robber and take a look to iranian culture huge box

[payam]

Hey dont tell me molana jalal aldin(romi) is otoman too:roflmao3: .......
is our iranian hero ok there?
Realy we iranian must do somthing against these nations.....
for x in azerbayjan republic they say Babak(the persian zoroasterian)was a turk!!!:laugh4: They create a hero of it in there....see iranian heros are every where

[Amir]

lol Payam you explained it well, how about Ferdowsi, Abu ali Sina, bironi, khwarazmi, omar khayyam ?

[payam]

See my ottoman brothers....wasn't jesus an ottoman too?

[masguy]

OTTOMANS ARE THE MOST LIERS I HAVE EVER SEEN...SHAME...

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g150/masjan/shake.gif http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g150/masjan/shake.gif

what they've done to you??

[payam]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g150/masjan/shake.gif http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g150/masjan/shake.gif

what they've done to you??

They always want to change whole history....make iranian history and culture themself....what the dream

[masguy]

They always want to change whole history....make iranian history and culture themself....what the dream

well then...,don't you think it's something that you can be proud of ? Ok,look ...Persian and Arab influenced heavily on our(malay) culture.it's already part of our culture.so,do you hate us too? ;)

[payam]

well then...,don't you think it's something that you can be proud of ? Ok,look ...Persian and Arab influenced heavily on our(malay) culture.it's already part of our culture.so,do you hate us too? ;)

See...first of all iran is not persian just.....they are alot of races...we all are iranian with 1 culture
also i didnt talk about influanced things......see for ex these people are saying nasradin was an ottoman!!!!
he is iranian....so much diffrent with influanced things
they are changing events/history/and personalities
the region countries want to make our scienctees and faces themself with thier lies!!!!!

[kasaeed1]

LOL u r fighting on Mulla Naseeruddin :-) He was Lahori Punjabi Pakistani. Born in Lahore, used to eat Halwa Puri in breakfast. Had his own team of kabadi Great fan of cricket espeically Imran Khan. He was good batsman himself

[masguy]

See...first of all iran is not persian just.....they are alot of races...we all are iranian with 1 culture
also i didnt talk about influanced things......see for ex these people are saying nasradin was an ottoman!!!!
he is iranian....so much diffrent with influanced things
they are changing events/history/and personalities
the region countries want to make our scienctees and faces themself with thier lies!!!!!

ok...my mistake

[payam]

LOL u r fighting on Mulla Naseeruddin :-) He was Lahori Punjabi Pakistani. Born in Lahore, used to eat Halwa Puri in breakfast. Had his own team of kabadi Great fan of cricket espeically Imran Khan. He was good batsman himself

Oh so it seems another country start claiming
:roflmao3: :laugh4:
he was 100%iranian dear

[dogukan]

I 100% WAS SURE THEY ATTACHED IRANIAN HISTORY AND CULTURE to thier hisory IN THIS FILE......:roflmao3:
OTTOMANS ARE THE MOST LIERS I HAVE EVER SEEN...SHAME...just look what iranian are..all are robbering our culture...for ex in BBC arabic i saw they writte: abo ali sina is an arab!!!!...shame on our neighbors
but we must be proud of our country.....we have alot and other few...and just can be a robber and take a look to iranian culture huge box
No my friend thats Turkish culture
And my friend there is no one called Ottoman Turks
Turkic peoples DO NOT HAVE ONE LEADER ALL ARE BROTHERS
Turkey is not the king of Turks,and Iranian Turks are not the leader of Turks
We are all from same ethnicity and culture-now the things are changing,I see a lot of Iranian Turks lost their culture and became Persian

[dogukan]

Oh so it seems another country start claiming
:roflmao3: :laugh4:
he was 100%iranian dear

Yeas Payam as you acn see everybody claims something.Maybe you are dreaming just like others too

[payam]

No my friend thats Turkish culture
And my friend there is no one called Ottoman Turks
Turkic peoples DO NOT HAVE ONE LEADER ALL ARE BROTHERS
Turkey is not the king of Turks,and Iranian Turks are not the leader of Turks
We are all from same ethnicity and culture-now the things are changing,I see a lot of Iranian Turks lost their culture and became Persian

that's Iranian culture....Not ottomans
ye brother they are alot in osmanistan......(what they call turkey wrongly)
No , turkic people dont have any leader......same as all nations.......god created human beings free......
but also turkic culture and history has a owner....w.ho are u to tell me iranian turks loosd thier culture!!!!
dont try to change the topic with some funny sentences
he was iranian

[payam]

Yeas Payam as you acn see everybody claims something.Maybe you are dreaming just like others too


yes dogukan........as u can see everbody claims somthings......so dont claim ur dreams....thanks

[kasaeed1]

*******s !!! no offence intended what r u fighting on ????

[payam]

we are fighting on nothing.....just some like u and him(:D) came here and tell me jokes

[snc128]

here is my documentary and universally accepted(except payam and some other Iranians lol).we even arrange NasreddinHodja days in US.
but after all,we may dispute on this subject and present documents but can come on a conclusion totally accapted.it is better to sing everyone their own song and leave this debate experts.
Turkey is not the king of Turks,and Iranian Turks are not the leader of Turks
We are all from same ethnicity and culture-now the things are changing,I see a lot of Iranian Turks lost their culture and became Persian

i agree with this comment

[payam]

here is my documentary and universally accepted(except payam and some other Iranians lol).we even arrange NasreddinHodja days in US.
but after all,we may dispute on this subject and present documents but can come on a conclusion totally accapted.it is better to sing everyone their own song and leave this debate experts.

i agree with this comment

these are not universally accepted ofcource....also i didnt attack the whole document........but the parts related to us
so please dont put ur hands in our box

[kasaeed1]

we are fighting on nothing.....just some like u and him(:D) came here and tell me jokes

In that case :-) :biggrin1: :biggrin1: :biggrin1: :biggrin1: :biggrin1:
Mulla Naseeruddin was a CIA agent working under cover in Iran and Turkey. Actually he was really from Lahore and his real name was Molvi Naseerudin Butt. He was actually a Kashmiri and big fan of Harisa.

[payam]

No see brother
people in iran/turkey/azerbayjan republic/pakistan/ects..... all know him.......
its for sure he was iranian......but todays in all thosue countries they claim that he is from them!!!!
this is not a new thing for we iranian , when they even started to change the name of our persian gulf.....
the whole region is unite with our enemies to erase the name of iranian and make our culture themself
be sure this is just a dream
nasredin was 100% iranian

[kasaeed1]

Frankly we don;t claim him it was just a joke. We have our own Imam din Gujrati :-) better then any one else ;-)

Nahi teri qismat haseena ki zulfeen
Tu khotay ki pochal pakar Imam dina

[snc128]

No see brother
people in iran/turkey/azerbayjan republic/pakistan/ects..... all know him.......
its for sure he was iranian......but todays in all thosue countries they claim that he is from them!!!!
this is not a new thing for we iranian , when they even started to change the name of our persian gulf.....
the whole region is unite with our enemies to erase the name of iranian and make our culture themself
be sure this is just a dream
nasredin was 100% iranian

is there anyone who thinks like payam?

[Kaveh]

yes me ;)


....

[snc128]

the whole region is unite with our enemies to erase the name of iranian
is there anyone who thinks like payam?
yes me ;)


....

ok.is there anyone to describe paranoia :)

[payam]

See there is no problem with ur culture......i didnt deny any document of side of ottomans culture...i just said dont put the hand in other's nations culture...thanks
also my brother:D as u see all accepted with ME......

[snc128]

See there is no problem with ur culture......i didnt deny any document of side of ottomans culture...i just said dont put the hand in other's nations culture...thanks
also my brother:D as u see all accepted with ME......

payam u kill me bro.:laugh4:
dont take it offensive,but as if u r not a Persian.u r an Ottoman :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
sig:ur Ottoman bro:laugh4:
i like u payam. ;) i m just kidding

[payam]

payam u kill me bro.:laugh4:
dont take it offensive,but as if u r not a Persian.u r an Ottoman :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
sig:ur Ottoman bro:laugh4:
i like u payam. ;) i m just kidding

lol.......im not persian....but iranian...very hard to teach ottomans this part:laugh4:
anyway theer is no offensive here....i jsut cant understand some lies....that's why im comming here....
anyway any nation has a culture
i didnt say ottomans has no culture.....they have a great history....
the thing that im saying is that not PUT ur hand in our BOX....is it that hard?

[snc128]

lol.......im not persian....but iranian...very hard to teach ottomans this part:laugh4:
anyway theer is no offensive here....i jsut cant understand some lies....that's why im comming here....
anyway any nation has a culture
i didnt say ottomans has no culture.....they have a great history....
the thing that im saying is that not PUT ur hand in our BOX....is it that hard?

i like u bro.
u support the king much greater than the king support himself about being Persian ;)
i know ,u r not a Persian,clearly ;)

[snc128]

some supports the king much greater than the king support himself .=this is a proverb ;)
dont think the real king :)

[payam]

Dont tell me king kong..and smt like this:D
i supporte the truth...what ever it be

[dogukan]

Hey Payam,
I'm really having hard times with you
There is no Turkish clan called Ottoman Turks
Ottoman Turks are from Oghuz Turks.Oghuz Turks were the largest one of other Turkic peoples
Ottomans are from these guys
Oghuz Turks-Kayı clan

Now Anatolia is FULL OF different Turkic peoples not only Ottomans
If you say I'm a Turk you're a TUrk not an Iranian.
I know what you mean though,what you mean by Iranian is different than me
Turkish culture doesn't have an owner.Only owner of this culture are TURKS.ALL THE TURKS.Not only you ,not only me every f**kin single Turk on this earth
I see your point is that YOU ARE THE owner of this culture.This shows that you just want to show yourself like a uber person,like "my father beats yours"
It is childish your highness
TUrks are Turks and they're the owners of this culture.Not Turkey Turks every Turk
AND THERE IS NO OTTOMAN TURK LEFT ON EARTH
Only the royal family and they're not in Turkey

[payam]

Hey Payam,
I'm really having hard times with you
There is no Turkish clan called Ottoman Turks
Ottoman Turks are from Oghuz Turks.Oghuz Turks were the largest one of other Turkic peoples
Ottomans are from these guys
Oghuz Turks-Kayı clan

Now Anatolia is FULL OF different Turkic peoples not only Ottomans
If you say I'm a Turk you're a TUrk not an Iranian.
I know what you mean though,what you mean by Iranian is different than me
Turkish culture doesn't have an owner.Only owner of this culture are TURKS.ALL THE TURKS.Not only you ,not only me every f**kin single Turk on this earth
I see your point is that YOU ARE THE owner of this culture.This shows that you just want to show yourself like a uber person,like "my father beats yours"
It is childish your highness
TUrks are Turks and they're the owners of this culture.Not Turkey Turks every Turk
AND THERE IS NO OTTOMAN TURK LEFT ON EARTH
Only the royal family and they're not in Turkey


i dont know....what ever u are u have no right to call urself Turk.....
its like american for ex make thier country name: angela sacsons land!!!!
see if u are not otoman u must be smthing else...like anatolian......this is a good name
but a country with Turk name is so stupid....(turkey)....cuase they are many turks in other regions and countries.....
also when we are in diffrent country with u, u have no right to claim on our turksih history or culture or else....we have some diffrences
also there is no diffrences btw iranian and being turk...jsut exaclly like being azeri and being turk...ects
open ur eyes....not be close mind

there is no ottoman turk left?ok so how are u my anatolian friend?
by the way....did u know anatolia is a persian name?
so if u are not ottoman...so seems u are a persian......

[Kardash]

Oh so it seems another country start claiming
:roflmao3: :laugh4:
he was 100%iranian dear

payam dont be shocked, nasreddin hoca is also known in Portugal :D

People in Akshehir wont believe you, because he is burried there!!!!

[Kardash]

i dont know....what ever u are u have no right to call urself Turk.....
its like american for ex make thier country name: angela sacsons land!!!!
see if u are not otoman u must be smthing else...like anatolian......this is a good name
but a country with Turk name is so stupid....(turkey)....cuase they are many turks in other regions and countries.....
also when we are in diffrent country with u, u have no right to claim on our turksih history or culture or else....we have some diffrences
also there is no diffrences btw iranian and being turk...jsut exaclly like being azeri and being turk...ects
open ur eyes....not be close mind

there is no ottoman turk left?ok so how are u my anatolian friend?
by the way....did u know anatolia is a persian name?
so if u are not ottoman...so seems u are a persian......
Payam if i read your posts about ottomans, its like you are living 400 years in the past. No ottomans left anymore, since 1923 dude.

Turkiye was being called as "Turchia" for more then 1000 years by Greeks, Italians to Turkic people who where inhabiting Anatolia. Even there was a time when Hungary and balkans where called as "Turchia" by them, thats before 10th century.

Also Turkey was the only independent Turkic country, they even thought to call "Oghuzistan" or something else which I dont remember anymore.

[kasaeed1]

some supports the king much greater than the king support himself .=this is a proverb ;)
dont think the real king :)

Shah sey bar kar shah key wafadar :-)

BTW payam what is the difference between Iranian and Persian. Aren't they the same.

Who are the other Turks Khan ? The central Asian?

Where was Naseeudin born and died? Modren day country?

Khan u said there are some royal family ppl there, who are they and where do they live? Do they still calim the throne?

[payam]

Payam if i read your posts about ottomans, its like you are living 400 years in the past. No ottomans left anymore, since 1923 dude.

Turkiye was being called as "Turchia" for more then 1000 years by Greeks, Italians to Turkic people who where inhabiting Anatolia. Even there was a time when Hungary and balkans where called as "Turchia" by them, thats before 10th century.

Also Turkey was the only independent Turkic country, they even thought to call "Oghuzistan" or something else which I dont remember anymore.

See historical names are more beautifull:)
see brother......1000 years??????:roflmao3: ....turks just came to these regions(middeast) from nearly 800 years ago....
this is another changing histroy????:laugh4: :smile1: realy sorry for.....
see that's true somtimes rezlity is not so good to us....but we must accept it....the reality is that turks came ti these regions after mongols attack(we helped mongols in thier attacks)
it means not we are mongol.....but we helped them cuase of some historical reasons.......
so thouse who want to show turks frm 1000 years ago in turkey and from 1500 years ago in azerbayjan republic(:roflmao3: ) realy are funny.....
we are not more than 800 years here....we jsut attacked the last peoples(for ex u attacked the anatolians) and sit in their place....and now these regions are ours...end of story
Oghuzistan?Wow great...do it....cuase turkey is not natural realy......u cant claim u are the the only turks when they are many others in many other regions

[payam]

Shah sey bar kar shah key wafadar :-)

BTW payam what is the difference between Iranian and Persian. Aren't they the same.

Who are the other Turks Khan ? The central Asian?

Where was Naseeudin born and died? Modren day country?

Khan u said there are some royal family ppl there, who are they and where do they live? Do they still calim the throne?

The stupid explanations accepted iranian as aryans!!!this is the pahlavi regim explanation
But iran islam explanation of it(which is reality) is this: iranian are some who are living in this land.......
there is no diffrences between being turk and iranian...u cant get it huh:biggrin1: ?
there is more than khan here.........i explained it how much we are :biggrin1: but i again say it to u(We are nearly 34 million turks in iran(if not be more)) and they are many in central asia and cuaghcuase
so as u see , u people are not the only turks in this world...so be carefull of ur senteces.....
when u say WHO AER TURKS and make a document for it....its so wrong.....u want to explain ur own country....so say: who are Ottomans...or Who are people of turkey

[kasaeed1]

so as u see , u people are not the only turks in this world...so be carefull of ur senteces.....
when u say WHO AER TURKS and make a document for it....its so wrong.....u want to explain ur own country....so say: who are Ottomans...or Who are people of turkey

I never said I am Turk!!!! I'm Punjabi I have nothing to do with Turk, Mula Naseeruddin expect I love Baklava ...... now don;t tell me Baklava is Iranian too!!!!!!!!!

[Sam Nolan]

The term ‘Ottoman’ is more closely connected to the Ottoman State and Caliphate, not a national state in the modern definition of the term but rather a manifestation of the sunni umma. Even its leadership reflected this reality; its Grand Viziers (Sadr el Azam) came from all over the Ottoman State, Albanians, Bosnians, Circassians, Kurds, etc. In its last fifty years there are two or three Egyptian GrandViziers. Its legal/religious establishment; Judges, Ulema etc were scholars from the Hejaz (Arabia) and those trained at the Azhar University in Cairo, certainly more than half this establishment came from this background. Before 1517 it was a Turkish Empire, but once the sunni/Abbasid Caliphate of Mamluk Cairo was taken to Istanbul, it became the Ottoman Caliphate.

Even its military establishment was a multi-ethnic institution, the intishariya (Janissaries) were of Balkan ethnic origin, its infantry was drawn from all over the geographic mass of the Ottoman Caliphate; Albanians, Deylerbey militias, Bosnian Hadjuks, city militia contingents from Syria, and Palestine, on occasion we find Sudanese infantry fighting with the Ottoman military etc. etc. Its cavalry was made up of a core of sipahi, a sort of feudal cavalry relying on grants of land known as iqta’as, these came from everywhere, Anatolia, Syria, even Egypt they all contributed a share to the sipahi corps. There were also mamluk contingents fighting in certain campaigns, including Turcoman nomads from Syria, and Kurdish and Arab tribal contingents used as light cavalry. I believe the Tartar Khanate of the Crimea would traditionally contribute 40,000 light cavalry in times of need. This changes with the incorporation of conscription from the 1830’s as part of the Nizam el Jadid, the modernization of the military establishment.

The Ottoman Turkish language is also different to modern Turkish, having a higher proportion of Arabic and Farsi words, which has since 1922 undergone a great effort to Turkify the language. An educated Ottoman gentleman would have had a working knowledge of three languages, Ottoman Turkish, Arabic and Farsi. Ottoman for official usage, Arabic for religion, Farsi for its literature, its culture and refinement. Similar to Europe where a classic education included a knowledge of Latin and Greek.

It is for this reason that many of the traditional stories emanating from Persia find themselves part of the traditional culture of the Ottoman state, these are also stories known in the Middle East for the same reasons as above. They have also been known in these regions for centuries. In western culture Aesop’s fables are part of mainstream European culture, yet they are of Hellenic (classical Greece) origin (600 BC) but are not considered solely the property of the modern Greeks, they are part of mainstream European culture. The same is true of Hans Christian Anderson (The Little Mermaid, the Emperors New Clothes) a Danish writer of the 19th century, his stories are today part of mainstream European literature. Or the 1000 and one nights, which includes many fables and stories originally translated from Farsi about 1000 years ago. These are today both part of the Muslim cultural experience as well as being part of world literature.

[dogukan]

Thats a good article
Yes Turkey=TURKS(OGHUZ TURKS)+ANATOLIAN PEOPLES(assyrians,armenians,greeksikurds,georgians,hattis... ...)

The important thing is...we are culturally Turk
We are Turks and other Turks are our brothers.We came from them

[payam]

Thats a good article
Yes Turkey=TURKS(OGHUZ TURKS)+ANATOLIAN PEOPLES(assyrians,armenians,greeksikurds,georgians,hattis... ...)

The important thing is...we are culturally Turk
We are Turks and other Turks are our brothers.We came from them

OK right.....that's nice now:roflmao3:
nut choosing turkey name for the country is an stupid thing as i said befor......see in world if u say Turk to all they just can imagine turkey.....they even dont know about turk existence in other places....its just cuase of sin u did........its like americans call thier country name: angela sacsons land!!!
see that's true u are turk....but its not true to show urself the base of other turks.........
Anyway take care of urself:roflmao3: be happy brothers the world is beutifull:laugh4:

[payam]

It is for this reason that many of the traditional stories emanating from Persia find themselves part of the traditional culture of the Ottoman state, these are also stories known in the Middle East for the same reasons as above. They have also been known in these regions for centuries. In western culture Aesop’s fables are part of mainstream European culture, yet they are of Hellenic (classical Greece) origin (600 BC) but are not considered solely the property of the modern Greeks, they are part of mainstream European culture. The same is true of Hans Christian Anderson (The Little Mermaid, the Emperors New Clothes) a Danish writer of the 19th century, his stories are today part of mainstream European literature. Or the 1000 and one nights, which includes many fables and stories originally translated from Farsi about 1000 years ago. These are today both part of the Muslim cultural experience as well as being part of world literature.

About the stories....this stories didnt came from under-ground....this scienters didnt came from under-ground.....they came from a nation...and this is what im fighting for

[dogukan]

Payam I do know its not true but a lot of people on this earth(which know who TUrks are) do not know about any Turk in Iran or Central Asia
THey think the only Turks are şn Turkey.I know it's not true but guess they made it like to seperate the bonds between Turks
I have heard about something about USA.(conspiracy but they had resources)In 1960s Americans estimate that the Soviets were going to fall in 30 years.Then they......"after the fall of Soviets there will be many Turkic countries on central Asia's lands and they will be on very usefull lands.If a union between them happens,and if they unite with Turkey this can cause a bigger threat than the Soviets"

Thats why they keep countries like Armenia..etc between us
They will never let Turks unite and you're supporting them by accepting what they want

this is historically wrong...they say Huns are huns,Kazaks are Kazaks,Uzbeks are Uzkbeks and Turkey TUrks are Turks
Actually the other countries are Turkic too

I do know that a lot of people are not Turks here in Turkey(ethnically) but we still have out Turkic roots and we'll enver forget our roots

[payam]

Payam I do know its not true but a lot of people on this earth(which know who TUrks are) do not know about any Turk in Iran or Central Asia
THey think the only Turks are şn Turkey.I know it's not true but guess they made it like to seperate the bonds between Turks
I have heard about something about USA.(conspiracy but they had resources)In 1960s Americans estimate that the Soviets were going to fall in 30 years.Then they......"after the fall of Soviets there will be many Turkic countries on central Asia's lands and they will be on very usefull lands.If a union between them happens,and if they unite with Turkey this can cause a bigger threat than the Soviets"

Thats why they keep countries like Armenia..etc between us
They will never let Turks unite and you're supporting them by accepting what they want

this is historically wrong...they say Huns are huns,Kazaks are Kazaks,Uzbeks are Uzkbeks and Turkey TUrks are Turks
Actually the other countries are Turkic too

I do know that a lot of people are not Turks here in Turkey(ethnically) but we still have out Turkic roots and we'll enver forget our roots

Well....after the falling of ur empire up to now..turky is seeing that she loosed her influance on the countries that were some part of her land.....Turkey realy wants to creat a turkish union......cuase its a new potential that they think can works.....they even start some jobs in thouse lands(except iran),but they know themself it cant be enough
cuase frist of all american pressure is a problem here.....
also iran for turkey is another problem,cuase all thouse turkish countries were some part of iran,which soviet seprait them.......for sure iran's potential in having influance there is so more high than turkey
u know turkey has just the language similarities....not cultural/historical(this is a fact,culture is not just language)
Also there is no armenia btw u........union is a political thing...not a land union...u want to occupy other countries lands???this is ur goal?so dreamical
So these all makes creation of this union impossible...i dont know....maybe in futuer.......

[dogukan]

Well....after the falling of ur empire up to now..turky is seeing that she loosed her influance on the countries that were some part of her land.....Turkey realy wants to creat a turkish union......cuase its a new potential that they think can works.....they even start some jobs in thouse lands(except iran),but they know themself it cant be enough
cuase frist of all american pressure is a problem here.....
also iran for turkey is another problem,cuase all thouse turkish countries were some part of iran,which soviet seprait them.......for sure iran's potential in having influance there is so more high than turkey
u know turkey has just the language similarities....not cultural/historical(this is a fact,culture is not just language)
Also there is no armenia btw u........union is a political thing...not a land union...u want to occupy other countries lands???this is ur goal?so dreamical
So these all makes creation of this union impossible...i dont know....maybe in futuer.......

We're not planning to occupy any country and Iran has not chance to unite them.We do not have that chance either since no other country on earth will let it happen.THey know the potential of Turks

(If Iran manages to unite them be sure that the Turkish identity on earth will be erased and Turks will be a .i....secondary people on earth which do not have a country or a chance to affect world policies
There are millions of Turkic people in Iran.Who knows this?No one even Iranians do not agree if they took over the Turkic countries....all the Turks will be like you and in time they will be known as an Iranic people

[payam]

We're not planning to occupy any country and Iran has not chance to unite them.We do not have that chance either since no other country on earth will let it happen.THey know the potential of Turks

(If Iran manages to unite them be sure that the Turkish identity on earth will be erased and Turks will be a .i....secondary people on earth which do not have a country or a chance to affect world policies
There are millions of Turkic people in Iran.Who knows this?No one even Iranians do not agree if they took over the Turkic countries....all the Turks will be like you and in time they will be known as an Iranic people

Well if the policies in iran was true now we had so many othe things(like that union)........as i said there is no chance for it.......
if iran and turkey had right policies we could unite the same cultural countries in our area(no diffrences about race....it could be multi race union)

[payam]

somthing liek this
http://i4.tinypic.com/3zi8zdt.jpg

[dogukan]

Well if the policies in iran was true now we had so many othe things(like that union)........as i said there is no chance for it.......
if iran and turkey had right policies we could unite the same cultural countries in our area(no diffrences about race....it could be multi race union)
lol thats a problem for me because I support nationalism but left wing at the same time
Yes we should unite but never forget our Turkic roots at the same time

[dogukan]

somthing liek this
http://i4.tinypic.com/3zi8zdt.jpg
There are more Turkic than this map
You forgot all the Tatars in Russia
WE wouldn't be able tu unite them though

[payam]

well this map is not just turks.....i add other races too....a multi race union can wrok better
about turks in russia and all around be sure we can....its not that hard u think
but with the conditions that we have now...and with the policies...there is no hope for that

[snc128]

The stupid explanations accepted iranian as aryans!!!this is the pahlavi regim explanation
But iran islam explanation of it(which is reality) is this: iranian are some who are living in this land.......
there is no diffrences between being turk and iranian...u cant get it huh:biggrin1: ?
there is more than khan here.........i explained it how much we are :biggrin1: but i again say it to u(We are nearly 34 million turks in iran(if not be more)) and they are many in central asia and cuaghcuase
so as u see , u people are not the only turks in this world...so be carefull of ur senteces.....
when u say WHO AER TURKS and make a document for it....its so wrong.....u want to explain ur own country....so say: who are Ottomans...or Who are people of turkey

payam,if u concerned about being Turk as much as us u would establish such kind of a document .u r not proud of ur roots and want us to respect Turks like u.the question is ;how much do u respect urself as a Turk.dont get furious immediately. besides,i m struggling not to understood as a racist .pay attention my red line.

[kasaeed1]

somthing liek this
http://i4.tinypic.com/3zi8zdt.jpg

Hey don;t add Pakistan in ur Map :biggrin1: I will take it as act of agreesion against me country

[payam]

payam,if u concerned about being Turk as much as us u would establish such kind of a document .u r not proud of ur roots and want us to respect Turks like u.the question is ;how much do u respect urself as a Turk.dont get furious immediately. besides,i m struggling not to understood as a racist .pay attention my red line.

No i want just guys to be in thier own ways
all are respecting thier own coutnry...like u....u dont respect ALL TURKS...u jsut pay attention to ur countrymens and its so natural...and its everywhere in every nation......
So u pay attentino to my red line too....putting hand in other nations xultural box is a such wirng thing....u have ur own great culture......so there is no need to do this kind of behaviours

[payam]

Hey don;t add Pakistan in ur Map :biggrin1: I will take it as act of agreesion against me country

This is not the map of turkish countires...this is the map of brotherhood....:wub2:
ok leave it

[kasaeed1]

Then how come half of Pakistan comes under the brotherhood not all

[payam]

No all of it is in brotherhood map...just look more carefully:)

[kasaeed1]

and Kashmir?

[payam]

Hem......well this is the map that i got from net...its thier sin not me....ok in next time i'll add it to map:D

[kasaeed1]

Hem......well this is the map that i got from net...its thier sin not me....ok in next time i'll add it to map:D

:wub2: :wub2: :wub2: :wub2: thanks:wub2: :wub2: :wub2: :wub2:

[AK-47 Kalashnikov]

didnt Hitler allways think Turks were Aryun ??

[payam]

Hem i dont think so.....cuase i saw some nazis hate us......

[snc128]

didnt Hitler allways think Turks were Aryun ??

no way :roflmao3:

[payam]

he is not alive anyway.....:Dthanks god:D

[Red_Shaman]

See there is no problem with ur culture......i didnt deny any document of side of ottomans culture...i just said dont put the hand in other's nations culture...thanks
also my brother:D as u see all accepted with ME......

i can find some offical document about ottoman history.i didnt see a bad thing about iranians on ottoman history.Ottoman is not a alone culture.It was an empire.not we just write ottoman history.Every sources are telling it to us(austria,balkanian ppl,italy,egypt,libia,ıraq).You can see a lot of mosque,hamam,and medrese(ottoman architectural) on Balkans,Asia,Anatolia and Afrika.We didnt change anything.But our brothers are doing it to us :)an example Arabians are destroying our mosques on mekke and medine.Is that a lie?

[payam]

i can find some offical document about ottoman history.i didnt see a bad thing about iranians on ottoman history.Ottoman is not a alone culture.It was an empire.not we just write ottoman history.Every sources are telling it to us(austria,balkanian ppl,italy,egypt,libia,ıraq).You can see a lot of mosque,hamam,and medrese(ottoman architectural) on Balkans,Asia,Anatolia and Afrika.We didnt change anything.But our brothers are doing it to us :)an example Arabians are destroying our mosques on mekke and medine.Is that a lie?

Bro we didnt talk about these things...we had just struggle cuase of Mullah nasredin....:roflmao3: :biggrin1:

[Kardash]

you may disappointed but it is accepted by the WORLD as Nasreddin HOCA.

I understand you can copy some good things of your neighbor but do it correct next time ok? :D

[kasaeed1]

How do u pronouce it HOCA or Khawajah. Coz if its Khawajah then Mulla or Khawajah both means learned man :-) u either u call him HOCA , Mulla or right honurable Naseuddin its the same thing.
And to all my brothers from Turkey and Iran, just read his bloody books, who cares where was he from.

[kaiser_tr]

didnt Hitler allways think Turks were Aryun ??


i dont think so...but i read an article about hitler and his respect for the turks.

as you know germany and ottoman empire were allies during WW1(which hitler's himself participated as a soldier) after both countries were defeated turks fought their independence war against allies while germans accepted the defeat.according to the article hitler had always found this action honourable

but of course this doesnt mean that he loved us:) there were some plans to destroy ankara and istanbul with fire bombs in case of turkey's war declaration against nazis:)

[Enver]

OTTOMANS ARE THE MOST LIERS I HAVE EVER SEEN


Oh oh oh... Are you muslim?

[kasaeed1]

Oh oh oh... Are you muslim?

Never mind as per bro Payam every thing except Iran is evil :-) He is a good nationalist iranian :-)

[payam]

Oh oh oh... Are you muslim?

What???!!!!what is the connection of ottoman and islam!!!???

[payam]

Never mind as per bro Payam every thing except Iran is evil :-) He is a good nationalist iranian :-)

So u said me im in wrong that calling turks in anatolia as ottoman huh?so what u got angry of that?:huh2: so see,u are ottoman as u accepted.........
but i have nothing to do with nationalist:err2: ,im a good liers catcher lol:laugh4:

[kasaeed1]

Me an ottoman ? Since when I thought I am a Lahoria

[payam]

Me an ottoman ? Since when I thought I am a Lahoria

:huh2: But its so strange why u have this much attention to turkish threads:laugh4: :tired1_24: ?????:huh2:

[kasaeed1]

:huh2: But its so strange why u have this much attention to turkish threads:laugh4: :tired1_24: ?????:huh2:

I'm also at Iranian Defence Forum :biggrin1:
BTW I find Turks to be pretty cool :smile1: so are the Iranians :laugh4:
One thing I want to say to both of u, its good u guys are nationalist but some times u both get a lil racist.:tongue2: which makes me mad :mad2:

[Red_Shaman]

Ottomans were not only Turks.Dont forget that.And Turks not only us.We are comming from "oğuzlar"(son of the oguzs.(a kabile of turks)).A lot of Turks are still living on middle asia.This is not only our culture.And Ottomans were a empire.A lot of culture lived on Ottomans.Turks,Kurds,Armenians,Greeks,Romens,Bulgarians,Sryb ians,Arnavuts,
Arabians,Jews,Afrikaans,georgians.....And only we didnt write that history.A lot of sources are supporting it.huh Ottomans are lier eh? hahaaha :D

[dogukan]

yes Ottomans were multicultural but our current borders are pretty Turkified
There are many different Turkic peoples living in Turkey nad none of them are called Ottomans :roflmao3:
For example there are yörüks,chepnis...........:) and plenty others I do not know their names

[Red_Shaman]

yes Ottomans were multicultural but our current borders are pretty Turkified
There are many different Turkic peoples living in Turkey nad none of them are called Ottomans :roflmao3:
For example there are yörüks,chepnis...........:) and plenty others I do not know their names

i am a Bozok.Add it:D

[Sam Nolan]

Ottoman; Despite European perceptions the Ottoman State (Dawla) was not an Empire, but the last representation of the Muslim Sunni umma through a Caliphate.

An Empire suggests the rule by a superior race over inferior peoples conquered through war. This is not the case of the Ottoman State. There is no real racial distinction in Islam, there is the umma which is a collection of differing ethnic peoples united through culture, religion, law and an ethical code, thereby creating a civilization. That was the Ottoman State, a direct descendent of the Abbasid State.

As an example the battle of Gallipoli is claimed as a Turkish victory, yet I would argue that it is an Ottoman victory, which is different. In this case there is confusion in that the battle has entered into the modern narrative of the emerging Turkish Republic.

If we analyze the order of Battle of the Ottoman units involved, the ethnic composition of its infantry divisions and regiments, we find a different story. Each division was divided into three regiments, at Gallipoli one regiment in each division was Arab, with the exception of the 19th division commanded by Mustapha Kemal Ataturk, this comprised of two of its three regiments were Arab units. Fully one third of the units involved at Gallipoli were Arab units under their own officers. If this was a colonial army like the British in India or the Russians; the rank and file would be ‘natives’ the officers British or Russian.

These Arab units fought on behalf of the Caliphate, and not on behalf of some ethnic identity, or some Arab state which did not exist in 1915. Their officers received the same training as the any Ottoman officer, and attended the higher Military Academy in Istanbul, like any other Ottoman officer.

[Red_Shaman]

Ottoman; Despite European perceptions the Ottoman State (Dawla) was not an Empire, but the last representation of the Muslim Sunni umma through a Caliphate.

An Empire suggests the rule by a superior race over inferior peoples conquered through war. This is not the case of the Ottoman State. There is no real racial distinction in Islam, there is the umma which is a collection of differing ethnic peoples united through culture, religion, law and an ethical code, thereby creating a civilization. That was the Ottoman State, a direct descendent of the Abbasid State.

As an example the battle of Gallipoli is claimed as a Turkish victory, yet I would argue that it is an Ottoman victory, which is different. In this case there is confusion in that the battle has entered into the modern narrative of the emerging Turkish Republic.

If we analyze the order of Battle of the Ottoman units involved, the ethnic composition of its infantry divisions and regiments, we find a different story. Each division was divided into three regiments, at Gallipoli one regiment in each division was Arab, with the exception of the 19th division commanded by Mustapha Kemal Ataturk, this comprised of two of its three regiments were Arab units. Fully one third of the units involved at Gallipoli were Arab units under their own officers. If this was a colonial army like the British in India or the Russians; the rank and file would be ‘natives’ the officers British or Russian.

These Arab units fought on behalf of the Caliphate, and not on behalf of some ethnic identity, or some Arab state which did not exist in 1915. Their officers received the same training as the any Ottoman officer, and attended the higher Military Academy in Istanbul, like any other Ottoman officer.

But i know a lie :D and it is....:D.A lot of etnic groups,europe's halp part,South africa and arabistan. And it is not an empire?:D

[Red_Shaman]

We are the muslim brothers.Ottomans too.Ottoman lived for islam.Don't hate.you know our architecture builds are still on that countries.But and our arab brothers are destroying them."Deleting all traces".They was mosques :):) .Other diffrent is "we weren't arab".Nationalty not important.Ottoman was muslim country.And they war for islam.But why you hate ottoman i dont know it!;)

[Sam Nolan]

‘….But i know a lie and it is.... .A lot of etnic groups,europe's halp part,South africa and arabistan. And it is not an empire? …’

I don’t understand your point, perhaps if you could elaborate a little. What part of this is a ‘lie’

I am not sure if you have seen a document from the Ottoman State and what they call themselves. It is not ‘Imperatoria’ (Empire) it is ‘Dawla’ (State.) The European called it an Empire because they equated it to the analogies that they were familiar with. In fact in the contemporary chronicles from the Crusades they are constantly referring to the Muslims as either ‘Turks’ or ‘Saracens’ or on occasion ‘Moslems.’

[Red_Shaman]

‘….But i know a lie and it is.... .A lot of etnic groups,europe's halp part,South africa and arabistan. And it is not an empire? …’

I don’t understand your point, perhaps if you could elaborate a little. What part of this is a ‘lie’

I am not sure if you have seen a document from the Ottoman State and what they call themselves. It is not ‘Imperatoria’ (Empire) it is ‘Dawla’ (State.) The European called it an Empire because they equated it to the analogies that they were familiar with. In fact in the contemporary chronicles from the Crusades they are constantly referring to the Muslims as either ‘Turks’ or ‘Saracens’ or on occasion ‘Moslems.’

hahahahah :D Please look again documents.Maps too :D We can not say for a country "empire" at moment.But on the historycal books are says "Empire".For it is history.Not at moment.So eurpean didnt called it with name of "empire"

[Sam Nolan]

Your point is still obscure, if you have a different POV then please elaborate. Explain how you disagree, and I am open to your argument, I am ready to be persuaded, are you?

I read Arabic, and I have seen and read Ottoman documents written in the Arabic script. I am aware that modern interpretations written in modern Turkish (latin script) are merely interpretations and may well have the revision of history when they write about events.

[Red_Shaman]

Your point is still obscure, if you have a different POV then please elaborate. Explain how you disagree, and I am open to your argument, I am ready to be persuaded, are you?

I read Arabic, and I have seen and read Ottoman documents written in the Arabic script. I am aware that modern interpretations written in modern Turkish (latin script) are merely interpretations and may well have the revision of history when they write about events.

Get start to read from chinesse documents.After come to arabic or modern Turkish.And after look to Arkeology.After look to treaties.you ll see,Turks not only Ottomans.We come from middile asia.And we are living on Anatolia.And Ottoman destroyed the Byzantium.Ottoman was a kabile on Bursa.Where are the arabians or saracents on Bursa?It's name comming from it.That kabile growed up.And it been an Empire.We are talking about Turks.Not only ottomans..

[Sam Nolan]

I am not disputing that the Ottoman State arises from Anatolia, and in the beginning it is an Empire, it also absorbs the previous Turkic States that had preceded it. The dynasty of Osman Ghazi (1300) with his capital at Brusa either defeats or persuades a variety of small different states into its political unity. The Danishmends, the Seljuks, the Ak-Koyyonlu etc etc. Eventually it defeats the Byzantine Empire, and transfers itself to Istanbul. All that is agreed.

Eventually under Sultan Selim I (Yavuz) they fight the war to determine the leadership of the Sunni umma with the Mamluks of Egypt. This is not a war of conquest, for it is a struggle between separate Muslim dynasties for the leadership of Sunni Islam. So long as the Caliphate is preserved the local populations don’t get involved.

The Mamluks were the leading dynasty because they had defeated the Crusaders and the Mongols. They had avenged the destruction of Abbasid Baghdad and had transferred the Caliphate from the ruins of Baghdad to Cairo.

In 1517 the Mamluks are defeated, and the Caliphate is transferred to Istanbul where it remains until 1924. By this event the Ottoman Turkish Empire transposes itself to becoming the Ottoman Caliphate, and with it the leadership of the Sunni umma.

The military and civilian leaders of the Ottoman State are less and less Turkish and more and more Muslim from all over the Sunni world; Albanian, Sharkass, Bosnian, Arab, etc etc. Its military establishment is likewise transformed with military contingents from everywhere. Dehlis are often irregular cavalry from everywhere, no ethnic distinction. Yoruks are usually Turcoman nomads, often from Syria and serve as light cavalry. Etc etc. In all the Ottoman conflicts from that date you find military contingents from all over the Ottoman State serving in its wars; Sipahi’s from Anatolia, and Syria, Kirim Tartar Cavalry from the Girey Khanate, Mamluks from Egypt, example; Battle of Lepanto where the right flank of the Ottoman fleet is made up of a Mamluk contingent of almost 100 galleys from Alexandria. etc etc.

That is the point I am making, the Ottomans cease being an Empire in 1517 and become the leaders of the Sunni umma within the Caliphate, until the proclamation of the modern Republic of Turkey which puts an end to all this.

Gallipoli is one of the last Ottoman victories, it occurs several years before the proclamation of the Turkish Republic and the end of the Ottoman Caliphate. As such it comprises military contingents from everywhere including the Arab lands.

[Red_Shaman]

i am looking your type and i am asking a question to you.You said a lot of cultures from ottoman.What is the it's mean?Just a state?No body fight for other states.Firstly arabs!where are they now?A muslim killed other muslim.Arabs did it.Have you ever watch Lawrence of Arabia?It was a real modern history.Eeee what they killed the Turks?weren't we muslims too?Did they war for muslims?Read again...

[Red_Shaman]

Delete your idology Ottoman war for Islam.And They wasnt only Turks.They wrote a history for islam.They been an empire!From our bright days...For All Islamic peoples.Ottoman is it!A Tukish kabile who growed up to been an empire!It takes this name from that kabile.Turks!We war for islam.

[Red_Shaman]

bro close that topic.We are all the brothers:)

[Sam Nolan]

The Arabs as depicted in ‘Lawrence of Arabia’ were the Ashraf of the Hejaz and not the vast majority of the Arabs, The Sharif Hussein out of personal ambition and betrayal to the Caliphate joined the British in the Arab revolt (more accurately the revolt in the Hejaz) To generally describe this as a revolt on behalf of ‘Arab’ Nationalism and that it was a general revolt against ‘Turkish’ rule in the Middle East by the Arabs this is inaccurate and is a deliberate simplification and the usual amplification by the Western powers for the purposes of distorting history, justifying their own immoral behavior and following the usual practice of Western ‘Divide and Rule’

For the rest of us his act was a betrayal, Lawrence and the Sharif Hussein even tried to proclaim a rebellion of the Arab regiments of the Ottoman Army on behalf of their British masters, they were ignored. At that time there were over 300,000 Arab troops fighting in all the Ottoman armies in every theater of operations, they fought on. Arab troops also means units from the Sanjaks (districts) of Damascus. Tripoli, Baghdad, Basra, the Hejaz, and the Wilaya (province) of Egypt.

To suggest Lawrence and his purchased allies was the general trend of thought at the time is a gross misrepresentation of the truth.

[snc128]

Sam Nolan ,if u had not written those realities which exists at the last two pages i would have already written them. as a Turk,erase the name sam nolan and write snc128 instead of sam nolan nick,i would not object to this action.
i completely agree what u had written with previous two pages.
thank u Nolan

[dogukan]

Sam,
The structure of Ottoman army was a racial mixture
As you said Tatars from Kırım,Sipahis from Anatolia(and Syria),Mamluks,Janissaries from Balkans,Akıncis from Turkmens,and troops of other conquered kingdoms......
This system was corrupted after 1650s the structure of army changed
During WWI there were Arabs,Armenians,Greeks fighting in the army but calling Gallipoli war as an Ottoman victory is different
During that battle (some say)250 000 from the Ottoman side were killed
some 90 000 in Russian frontline.Some elite brigades were sent to Germany and to other allies
Atatürk said something about this when he came to his brigade in Gallipoli
The troops in Gallipoli were badly organised,the well organised ones were sent to Germany

Anyway during WWI(Gallipoli) TUrks had the most losses
Actually we have lost a whole educated generation(universities in Istanbul were emptied,there weren't any graduates until 1921)
Soldiers from all over Anatolia were being drafted and flowing to the frontline


About the Ottoman being an empire
Well that depends on the definition of Ottoman empire,people think being an empire is "cool".I think the same way :)

[kaiser_tr]

ilber ortayli(famous turkish historian) says that ottoman empire is the 3.rome

1-roman empire
2-byzantium empire
3-ottoman empire

ottoman was multicutural as most of u said.there was no ruling nation.an albanian,greek or armenian could become a pasha or vezir.in french and british empires whole ruling staff is british or french.that's the main difference between ottoman and the others.

[payam]

who are the Turks?===>good people
enough yea?:D
================================
btw:mullah nasredin is iranian.....heh:frown3:

[snc128]

and u r obsessed on Nasreddin Hodja :)

[Sam Nolan]

Dogukan
The point that I was making was that at the time of the Ottoman State the question of identity and nationalism were tied up with the concept of the umma. A form of Ottoman national identity was constructed to bind the non-Muslim population with state loyalties which happens in the mid-19th century. I have written a somewhat longer definition, please bear with me.

The concept of state nationalism as we understand it today is a very modern construct. As example; Germany, did not exist as a national state until 1871. Until that date it contained almost 200 separate sovereign states, going by the names of Kingdom of Bavaria, Kingdom of Saxony, Electorate of Hannover, etc etc. These states also had a previous history of conflict and rivalry. They agreed to unite under what was briefly known as the Prussian Empire, which transposed to the German State, all this happens after 1871. The same can be said of Italy. Had you asked a German before 1871 ‘…what is your nationality? he would have answered ‘..a subject of the King of Saxony, or whatever state he came from, he would not have said German..’

Within a Muslim context in 1871 the issue of nationality is also different, had you asked an Anatolian farmer or a Syrian shepherd or a Turcoman nomad what is your nationality? He would have answered I am from the city or region/district, or tribe of such and such. Had you pressed the point and insisted on another answer, he would not know quite know what you wanted he would have answered ‘I am a Muslim.’ That was the nationalism of these people, as we would interpret the word today. The idea of an ethnic distinction to define a national sense of identity was an alien concept within the Muslim society of 1871.

France and England could be considered nations, with a distinct sense of identity, however in the case of France, this only becomes a reality following mass military conscription after the French Revolution. In these two nations a history of a feudal aristocracy is more closely connected with their history, instead of being the history of France as a nation it is really the history of dynastic conflict between a select aristocratic elite and their personal interests.

Within the Ottoman context, it is a Muslim society, therefore there is no aristocracy, there are no inherited titles (Pasha, Bey, Sultan, these are military/administrative ranks, and not titles, cannot be inherited) and the laws of the inheritance of wealth are designed to spread the money and the land to avoid building up powerful dynastic families which are considered a threat to the state institution. In fact Islam prefers a meritocratic (advancement based on merit, not birth) society rather than a aristocratic one. You don’t find an Ottoman aristocratic elite, there is no such thing outside of the Osman-Oglu Dynasty.

Therefore those who governed the Bab el A’ali (Sublime Porte) were in those positions based on their merit, and not on their birth. They are the products of the highly organized state educational systems that produced administrators, governors, military commanders and the officer corps. These peoples were of multi-ethnic origin, united in a common sense of ethics, world view, and religion, and this distinct cultural stamp, that of an Ottoman gentleman, speaking Ottoman, (as well as Farsi and/or Arabic) thinking Ottoman, but of varied ethnicity, is also a result of the higher educational establishment. There are exceptions of course, depending on which administrative bodies. But the policy making apparatus was Muslim. For this reason you will find high state officers like Said Halim Pasha (Egyptian) as Sadr el Azam (Grand Vizier) or Omer Pasha (Croatian) commander of the Ottoman armies in the Crimean War.

A large proportion of the lawmaking and juridical/religious authority; judges, Qadi el askar, Ulema, Sheikh ul Islam are of Arab origin, Ottoman Arabs, having gone through the same system as is mentioned above. I would not call this multi cultural by the way, it is the opposite, one culture but many ethnicities.

WWI, something like 2.85 million men were conscripted, about 325,000 killed, Gallipoli 250,000 casualties (killed and wounded) as I mentioned in an earlier post about a third of the troops at the battle were of Arab origin. What motivated them to fight? Forced conscription? There was that and I would imagine it was the same proportion with whatever ethnicity. Were the majority of conscripts Anatolian Turks, probably, no disagreement here. Did they fight to propagate an Imperial subjugation? i.e Turkish lords, Arab serfs? If that was the case where are the Christian Armenian regiments? Or the Greek Orthodox regiments? There were large populations of these non-Muslim minorities under Ottoman authority. Did they fight for their non-Muslim Ottoman nationalism? If so where, and what regiments? did these Arabs fight for the Turkish Republic? No that was proclaimed after WWI.

This is 1915, there were no Arab nations, there had not been any Arab nations before this date either. Before the Ottomans there were Arab Muslim regions under the Sultanates of Damascus, Aleppo and the Emir of Kirkuk etc etc (called the ‘Jazira’ not Iraq) Syria, Iraq, Jordan, even Palestine are modern constructs created by the victor powers (Britain and France) following WWI to define their areas of colonial possession. Did these Arab officers and men perhaps fight as Muslims for Islam in the name of the Muslim-Ottoman Caliphate, and for the preservation of Istanbul, the Capital of the Sunni Caliphate? This I think is a little more logical.

[Sam Nolan]

Kaiser
The Russians would disagree about the Third Rome, in that they consider Moscow as the Third Rome, because of the Greek Orthodox religious connection. The claim is also based on the fact that the mother of Ivan the Terrible was a Byzantine Princess and a daughter of a Byzantine Emperor. On the other hand Sultan Mohamed Fatih did also have either a mother or a grandmother who was a Byzantine Princess, daughter of a Byzantine Emperor.

[snc128]

This is 1915, there were no Arab nations, there had not been any Arab nations before this date either. Before the Ottomans there were Arab Muslim regions under the Sultanates of Damascus, Aleppo and the Emir of Kirkuk etc etc (called the ‘Jazira’ not Iraq) Syria, Iraq, Jordan, even Palestine are modern constructs created by the victor powers (Britain and France) following WWI to define their areas of colonial possession.

;)
let me ask u,why Arabs become seperated.
or to be more plain,why dont they spend some effort to become united, although there were some distinctions btw them it doesnt seem to become united as difficult as Turks become united?
can u enlighten me?:)

[Sam Nolan]

snc128
This may be off topic, but if you like I have a few posts on Irans Military Strategic Discussion Forum/Muslim Unity/page 3-5 Which partly addresses this issue.

I would add that Arab Nationalism was used by Gamal abdel Nasser to achieve just that. He was also inspired by Mustapha Kemal Ataturk, and used Arab Nationalism as a vehicle to achieve similar results. i.e. A unity based on a common ethnic origin, rather than Islam, in this case Pan Arabism, which is parallel with Ataturk’s Pan Turanianism. He failed. Reason; Ataturk succeeded because he was able to deliver a military victory for the Turkish people, in addition he faced off the British at Chanak, and they withdrew. From this he became a national hero, and this eased his task in creating a unity that would become the modern Turkish Republic.

Nasser was not able to deliver a military victory over Israel, his rhetoric and ideological ideas were not enough to create that unity. Had he done so, Arab unity would have become a reality. The historian Gibbon has a line about Saladin (Salah el din el Ayyubi) ‘…Saladin was able to overcome the selfish ambition of princes to create a unity that could meet the challenge of the west…’ Nasser did neither the one nor the other. The Arab world is still disunited because of that ‘…selfish ambition of princes…’

[Kardash]

Kaiser
The Russians would disagree about the Third Rome, in that they consider Moscow as the Third Rome, because of the Greek Orthodox religious connection. The claim is also based on the fact that the mother of Ivan the Terrible was a Byzantine Princess and a daughter of a Byzantine Emperor. On the other hand Sultan Mohamed Fatih did also have either a mother or a grandmother who was a Byzantine Princess, daughter of a Byzantine Emperor.

This doesnt make sense, Ottomans conquered the byzantine or the "Roman" capital city, they won them destroyed them. Mehmed called himself "Qayser-i Rûm" means the emperor of the Romans. Russians arent or havent been a superpower yet they cant claim anything, besides they dont recognize the patriarch of Constantinople...

Even some historians consider Mehmed as a new byzantian basileus because of his politics which was actually continuation of byzantian ones...

Would you call USA as fourth Roman empire because they might have some bloodline connections or something else?

Russians can claim everything but it is absolutely absurd to fall into this.

[Sam Nolan]

Rome had a magical connotation in this period. As it was the most advanced political unit of late antiquity. The most highly regarded philosophical and literary works from antiquity were preserved and added to because of Rome. It was not just the ‘power’ of Rome but also the intellectual and technological advancement of Rome.

Germanic barbarian tribes destroy the Western Roman Empire, but they set themselves up as the successors of Rome, the leaders of the loose federation of German tribes styles himself the Holy Roman Emperor, as both the spiritual successor to Rome and elected leader of the German people. They want the glamour of Rome to rub off on them. The German word ‘Kaiser’ is derived from ‘Ceasar.’

With the fall of Constantinople, the same thing happens with the Russians, except they style themselves Tsar, Czar which is also derived from ‘Ceasar’ Google ‘Third Rome’ it talks about this.

Sultan Mohamed Fatih considered his claim to the Byzantine Empire more authentic than the Emperor through his family connection and this was one of the reasons for the last siege in 1453.

[Kardash]

Rome had a magical connotation in this period. As it was the most advanced political unit of late antiquity. The most highly regarded philosophical and literary works from antiquity were preserved and added to because of Rome. It was not just the ‘power’ of Rome but also the intellectual and technological advancement of Rome. Agree here.

Germanic barbarian tribes destroy the Western Roman Empire, but they set themselves up as the successors of Rome, the leaders of the loose federation of German tribes styles himself the Holy Roman Emperor, as both the spiritual successor to Rome and elected leader of the German people. They want the glamour of Rome to rub off on them. The German word ‘Kaiser’ is derived from ‘Ceasar.’ The destroying of western rome was by the leading of the Huns, i have a source which says that actually the last (western) Roman Emperor was a descentant of Attilla self.

If your talking about Charlemagne, i've found something interesting about him too, he did marry with an avar princess which european "historians" never mention about.

I gave up learning history, you know why. Because of the ridiculous "eurocentric" view of the Western people, they call huns "ugly barbarians" almost animals, but their greatest ally's where the germanic ones who where they then? Or the most common view they have if they loose a war, "the army was weak, it was dying empire and he did the final move" but if they have victory over someone else "astonishing victory, magical commander, great" you see the bully here. Because it is subjective written, thought and accepted that way.

With the fall of Constantinople, the same thing happens with the Russians, except they style themselves Tsar, Czar which is also derived from ‘Ceasar’ Google ‘Third Rome’ it talks about this. The term "tzar" was first used by Bulgaric tribes, search who where the first Bulgaric tribes, they where Turkic and slavic tribes. Before "tzar" they had "kaghan", or "kanasubigi", "kanartigin" as title's. IIRC first Bulgar king who used "tzar" is Samuil, after he married a Byzantine princess i think or defeated byzantines in a battle.

Sultan Mohamed Fatih considered his claim to the Byzantine Empire more authentic than the Emperor through his family connection and this was one of the reasons for the last siege in 1453. Why you think that way? Isnt it logic that he chooses the title "Emperor of the Romans" because he actually directly RULES them? NOt like russians who only have a portion byzantine blood and think they are romans.

I heard that Fatih actually conquered Constantinople so quick because he heard that byzantine emperor was in search for christian ally's, later it came out that it didnt work.

[Noor]

They always want to change whole history....make iranian history and culture themself....what the dream

Payam jon, don't worry about Ottomans, they have good food, music, and cities, rather feel sorry for them that they create all these lies to say that they are the heart and the world is the body, when rather they are not the heart but infact a mole on the world, they try to hump their culture upon all. (Now don't get me wrong, I have many turkish friends, but some are just so ignorant that one must wonder, what is going on with them. Also I happen to like Turkey very much, but just can't stand the BS that spew from some people there.) Ask the Turks here who first invented a) Donair (Gyros) b) kebabs
c) Baclava and d) The Tar and 99 percent of the answer that you will get is (Turks all of the above):huh2:

[snc128]

Payam jon, don't worry about Ottomans, they have good food, music, and cities, rather feel sorry for them that they create all these lies to say that they are the heart and the world is the body, when rather they are not the heart but infact a mole on the world, they try to hump their culture upon all. (Now don't get me wrong, I have many turkish friends, but some are just so ignorant that one must wonder, what is going on with them. Also I happen to like Turkey very much, but just can't stand the BS that spew from some people there.) Ask the Turks here who first invented a) Donair (Gyros) b) kebabs
c) Baclava and d) The Tar and 99 percent of the answer that you will get is (Turks all of the above):huh2:

what the lottery bring us.it must be u?
welcome new comer.welcome new representer of hatred.i wonder when ur BS s will last

[payam]

Payam jon, don't worry about Ottomans, they have good food, music, and cities, rather feel sorry for them that they create all these lies to say that they are the heart and the world is the body, when rather they are not the heart but infact a mole on the world, they try to hump their culture upon all. (Now don't get me wrong, I have many turkish friends, but some are just so ignorant that one must wonder, what is going on with them. Also I happen to like Turkey very much, but just can't stand the BS that spew from some people there.) Ask the Turks here who first invented a) Donair (Gyros) b) kebabs
c) Baclava and d) The Tar and 99 percent of the answer that you will get is (Turks all of the above):huh2:


Well bro its all cuase of not having true informations....
for ex some days ago 1 week ago saaid me: afghanistan is the creator and owner of carpet:laugh4: :laugh4:
these neighbours are just stealing our culture

[payam]

what the lottery bring us.it must be u?
welcome new comer.welcome new representer of hatred.i wonder when ur BS s will last

yes :laugh4: as my dear (snc128) said welcome
welcome new defeater,welcome new fighter lol

[dogukan]

Well bro its all cuase of not having true informations....
for ex some days ago 1 week ago saaid me: afghanistan is the creator and owner of carpet:laugh4: :laugh4:
these neighbours are just stealing our culture

Ok we may have some mistakes but same for you
Let's say something we claim is false,how do you know you're right??Are you talking to god?Did he tell you these?Were you there when these things were happenin?You don't even defend your own culture and you accept that you're assimilated in Iran
Iran is not a Turkish origin country,it's "Persian" origin

BTW most of the things Turks claim are agreed by historians all over the world
History is always open to comments but there are some things you can not change

[payam]

Ok we may have some mistakes but same for you
Let's say something we claim is false,how do you know you're right??Are you talking to god?Did he tell you these?Were you there when these things were happenin?You don't even defend your own culture and you accept that you're assimilated in Iran
Iran is not a Turkish origin country,it's "Persian" origin

BTW most of the things Turks claim are agreed by historians all over the world
History is always open to comments but there are some things you can not change

hem we didnt say we are always right....we were talking about just few tthiings....also its iran not persia......so its for all iranians
BTW most of the things Turks claim are agreed by historians all over the world
dont make me laugh ok/????:laugh4: jesus was turk moses was turk!!!!:laugh4: we are the best...we are the owner of all

[dogukan]

hem we didnt say we are always right....we were talking about just few tthiings....also its iran not persia......so its for all iranians

dont make me laugh ok/????:laugh4: jesus was turk moses was turk!!!!:laugh4: we are the best...we are the owner of all

We've never claimed Moses and Jesus weer Turks :tired1_24:
Are you sure you're +20 years old,you don't seem like

You're talking like you're always right my friend :)Whenever I say something you say "asdfasdfasdf Iranian"
And yes those lands belong the Persians and other Iranians it's not mother land of Turks

[payam]

We've never claimed Moses and Jesus weer Turks :tired1_24:
Are you sure you're +20 years old,you don't seem like

You're talking like you're always right my friend :)Whenever I say something you say "asdfasdfasdf Iranian"
And yes those lands belong the Persians and other Iranians it's not mother land of Turks

LOL.....
dont talk to me this much funny....if its not our mother land.....so if it is like that the lands u are in now(anatolia) is not ur lands too....so if it is ,let's go back to the place that we are from:laugh4: :laugh4: LOL
we are iranian:laugh4: and u are anatolian...:laugh4:

[dogukan]

LOL.....
dont talk to me this much funny....if its not our mother land.....so if it is like that the lands u are in now(anatolia) is not ur lands too....so if it is ,let's go back to the place that we are from:laugh4: :laugh4: LOL
we are iranian:laugh4: and u are anatolian...:laugh4:

Yes Payam,Anatolia is not the mother land of Turks
I never said we should go back to our motherlands either
But lands you live in are mother lands of Iranians :biggrin1: :biggrin1:
And yes people in Turkey are also mixed with Anatolians.....ancient peoples and cultures and I'm proud of it

[snc128]

dogukan vs payam
it sucks anymore
fight of blind
and no proofs,only claims

[dogukan]

dogukan vs payam
it sucks anymore
fight of blind
and no proofs,only claims

I'm trying to be neutral as much as I,I'm not claiming anything I have resources :wub2: :wub2:

[snc128]

I'm trying to be neutral as much as I,I'm not claiming anything I have resources :wub2: :wub2:

my aim is to make u share them.i m shocked when i see the new comer claims that baklava belong to them ,being a guy from GaziAntep. i get rid of seeing propagandas and dont wanna waste my energy for propagandas... ;)

[Noor]

what the lottery bring us.it must be u?
welcome new comer.welcome new representer of hatred.i wonder when ur BS s will last

First check your English brother, second tell one thing that I wrote that was BS and convince everyone else why, if not then you're just acting like the stereotypical Turk. (NO disrespect)

[Noor]

my aim is to make u share them.i m shocked when i see the new comer claims that baklava belong to them ,being a guy from GaziAntep. i get rid of seeing propagandas and dont wanna waste my energy for propagandas... ;)

WHERE good god in my comment did I saw it belonged to us or even implied it? please read things more carefully before you say something back, remember don't leap before you look:wub2: I think you missed the whole point of what I was trying to say.

[payam]

Yes Payam,Anatolia is not the mother land of Turks
I never said we should go back to our motherlands either
But lands you live in are mother lands of Iranians :biggrin1: :biggrin1:
And yes people in Turkey are also mixed with Anatolians.....ancient peoples and cultures and I'm proud of it

The mother lands is the place that u have root on it.......we turks befor comming to middleast didnt have any certain land......but nowdays we have....and we have no other place to claim we are from.....so here is my mother land...cuase we have history and culture here....
aryans are ancient iranian.....and we are younger iranian....easy to get
about u and anatolians:tired1_24: .....i think turkey in majority is anatolian not a turkish country......turkey!!!!!what the lie

[payam]

dogukan vs payam
it sucks anymore
fight of blind
and no proofs,only claims

dogukan and payam vs snc128...:: .snc128 is the kurds hero:laugh4: lol

[snc128]

First check your English brother, second tell one thing that I wrote that was BS and convince everyone else why, if not then you're just acting like the stereotypical Turk. (NO disrespect)

i dont have to convince anyone .u r the claimer and jumped into the thread like a fish and brought us some new ,interesting and funny comments or claims.
ur message itself tells about ur contradictions.
here is ur message .read it carefully .i remind it to u for ur fish memory.
don't worry about Ottomans, they have good food, music, and cities, rather feel sorry for them that they create all these lies to say that they are the heart and the world is the body, when rather they are not the heart but infact a mole on the world, they try to hump their culture upon all. (Now don't get me wrong, I have many turkish friends, but some are just so ignorant that one must wonder, what is going on with them. Also I happen to like Turkey very much, but just can't stand the BS that spew from some people there.) Ask the Turks here who first invented a) Donair (Gyros) b) kebabs
c) Baclava and d) The Tar and 99 percent of the answer that you will get is (Turks all of the above)
upon all of these things,i m proud of being a TURK.
if i were u ,i would not classify ppl according to their races.

[snc128]

WHERE good god in my comment did I saw it belonged to us or even implied it? please read things more carefully before you say something back, remember don't leap before you look:wub2: I think you missed the whole point of what I was trying to say.

in that case make ur sentences clearer.u r fussing and crying cuz of BS that spew from us and want us to ask Turks there:tired1_24: who first invented baklava and kebap etc. likewise wanna claim that those things does not belong to Turkiye!moreover ,u r trying to go up like oil by saying that u did not say sth like they belong to u.in my opinion,until u prove opposite,we ll believe that u intended to say those things does not belong to Turks!
either u can not express ur feelings and thoughts ur u r making up some fancy dreams.u need to give an explanation

[snc128]

dogukan and payam vs snc128...:: .snc128 is the kurds hero:laugh4: lol

u ve to become familiar with Turkish artists, payam.what can i say more:biggrin1:

[payam]

u ve to become familiar with Turkish artists, payam.what can i say more:biggrin1:

nothing just laugh like me:biggrin1:

[snc128]

nothing just laugh like me:biggrin1:
it is a brillant idea.:biggrin1:

[Noor]

in that case make ur sentences clearer.u r fussing and crying cuz of BS that spew from us and want us to ask Turks there:tired1_24: who first invented baklava and kebap etc. likewise wanna claim that those things does not belong to Turkiye!moreover ,u r trying to go up like oil by saying that u did not say sth like they belong to u.in my opinion,until u prove opposite,we ll believe that u intended to say those things does not belong to Turks!
either u can not express ur feelings and thoughts ur u r making up some fancy dreams.u need to give an explanation

How is it when somebody says even something slightly offensive directed at a group of people (SOME Turks not all, ok snc learn the meaning of that word first before saying I'm classifying people based on race WHICh I"M NOT) also I, whose mother language is English can't think of any other possible way of making my point even clearer, I also said BS from SOME Turks once again look up this definition I can't stress this enough, and if you can find where I said any of those things belonged to us point it out in my sentence, and I did not say none of those belonged to Turks either, I suggest you improve your English brother, My point of that was that SOME (once again this word is coming up) Turks are so full of themselves that they believed that ALL of the above came from them. If YOU truly believe this too, then you are a fool, also how am I making up some fancy dream? tell me where in my sentence did I say something that would make you think that? As I said before I have many Turkish friends and I love to go to Turkey, hell even my grandmother speaks Turkish, why would I be against Turks? you tell me where in my sentences I said I'm against ALL Turks and Turkey? I'm against certain people which are present in every country that are ignorant and hard-headed, which I said SOME Turks are, and if you still can not realize my point and think I'm attacking Turkey or Turks well then you are just proving you're one of those people. :wub2:

[snc128]

How is it when somebody says even something slightly offensive directed at a group of people (SOME Turks not all, ok snc learn the meaning of that word first before saying I'm classifying people based on race WHICh I"M NOT) also I, whose mother language is English can't think of any other possible way of making my point even clearer, I also said BS from SOME Turks once again look up this definition I can't stress this enough, and if you can find where I said any of those things belonged to us point it out in my sentence, and I did not say none of those belonged to Turks either, I suggest you improve your English brother, My point of that was that SOME (once again this word is coming up) Turks are so full of themselves that they believed that ALL of the above came from them. If YOU truly believe this too, then you are a fool, also how am I making up some fancy dream? tell me where in my sentence did I say something that would make you think that? As I said before I have many Turkish friends and I love to go to Turkey, hell even my grandmother speaks Turkish, why would I be against Turks? you tell me where in my sentences I said I'm against ALL Turks and Turkey? I'm against certain people which are present in every country that are ignorant and hard-headed, which I said SOME Turks are, and if you still can not realize my point and think I'm attacking Turkey or Turks well then you are just proving you're one of those people. :wub2:

u have to think that all of us resemble mirrors.u r seeing what u r,and u r naming ppl as u r.
besides,ur problem is not with language but being not clear,as i had mentioned.anyway,i stop here.it has no use to speak with u about the concept of being a Turk and Turkish values.

[kaiser_tr]

Ask the Turks here who first invented a) Donair (Gyros) b) kebabs
c) Baclava and d) The Tar and 99 percent of the answer that you will get is (Turks all of the above):huh2:


1-About Doner(or Donair like you say)

The original form of today's döner kebab is Oltu kebab. Oltu is a small town near Erzurum, Turkey. The original form is grilled horizontally and the slices are cut thicker, after inserting a special L shaped Oltu shish along the surface. In the 19th century, the modern form was invented in Bursa. The original form is still served in many cities of Turkey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doner#History

2-About Baklava(Baclava)

The history of baklava is not well-documented; but although it has been claimed by many ethnic groups, the best evidence is that it is of Central Asian Turkic origin, with its current form being developed in the imperial kitchens of the Topkapı Palace.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baklava

3-About Kebab

The word 'kabab' کباب is ultimately from Arabic or Persian but originally meant fried meat, not grilled meat. It was only in Turkish period that the term 'kebab' became widespread. [1][2][3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebab

just check the list of iranian and turkish kebabs plz..then decide which nation has right over kebab:)



and i'm too sensitive about turkish cousine:biggrin1:

now i'm gonna go and eat something to protest you:biggrin1: :roflmao3:

[payam]

ok so u all just eat the kebab and baclava and dont think from where is it:D :roflmao3:

[Noor]

o well we all know that the best kebab is from Azerbaijan Iran:laugh4:

[kaiser_tr]

no only iranians beleive:D

and go anywhere on earth and ask kebab:D ppl would tell you that its turkish
bcause turks made it popular whole around the world.

[max]

Being popular and being the best are not the same things.

[kaiser_tr]

at that time it was chinese porcelain, chinese silk, british fabric, russian vodka:)

nowadays most populer product = the one which has the fattest marketing budget:)

[imtiaz82]

Why are the Turks and Iranis fighting here! Both the Ottomans and the Persians were great empires, each giving a lot to human civilization. Let's accept that and move on. We Asians should learn from Europe, over there both the Roman and Greek Civilization is honored. Even the French and British are now allying to preserve their heritage.. We should do the same..

Just to make both sides happy, I am from Bangladesh(known as Bengal, part of Indian subcontinent during the Mughal rule). The first Muslim conquest was done by the turk Bakhtiar Khilji while for most part of the 1,000 years of muslim rule, farsi was the lingua franca of Bengal. So, both the great civilizations had an impact in our country, and we acknowledge that.

Let's have peace and develop together.

[Noor]

Why are the Turks and Iranis fighting here! Both the Ottomans and the Persians were great empires, each giving a lot to human civilization. Let's accept that and move on. We Asians should learn from Europe, over there both the Roman and Greek Civilization is honored. Even the French and British are now allying to preserve their heritage.. We should do the same..

Just to make both sides happy, I am from Bangladesh(known as Bengal, part of Indian subcontinent during the Mughal rule). The first Muslim conquest was done by the turk Bakhtiar Khilji while for most part of the 1,000 years of muslim rule, farsi was the lingua franca of Bengal. So, both the great civilizations had an impact in our country, and we acknowledge that.

Let's have peace and develop together.

The problem is some turks think they are the best in everything, and always want to compare Iran to Turkiye.:roflmao3:

[kaiser_tr]

noor can you show me, when i, or anyone said smthng like that??? quote plzz

its all in your head

[kaiser_tr]

Payam jon, don't worry about Ottomans, they have good food, music, and cities, rather feel sorry for them that they create all these lies to say that they are the heart and the world is the body, when rather they are not the heart but infact a mole on the world, they try to hump their culture upon all. (Now don't get me wrong, I have many turkish friends, but some are just so ignorant that one must wonder, what is going on with them. Also I happen to like Turkey very much, but just can't stand the BS that spew from some people there.) Ask the Turks here who first invented a) Donair (Gyros) b) kebabs
c) Baclava and d) The Tar and 99 percent of the answer that you will get is (Turks all of the above):huh2:


this is your first message in this thread...who's fighting?against who:)

sorry but you are the aggressor in this thread

[imtiaz82]

Brothers, let's not argue in vain. Is it really that important to know from where gyros, kebabs or bachlava came from ? lol I for one, love the taste of all them :)

Let's concentrate on development and progress, Turkey and Iran can benefit hugely from co-operation in various sectors. If you show respect to others, others will show respect in return.

[Noor]

this is your first message in this thread...who's fighting?against who:)

sorry but you are the aggressor in this thread

haha I think you're a dreamer if you want I will find you countless threads about Iran that you guys have managed to mention Turkey in. Talk about Irans airport of guess what you guys mention the guy who built it was Turk, so who cares its not about Turkey, many others threads like the one started by some bozo saying Turkeys army is stronger than Iran which posted fake numbers? YA I think YOU know what Im talking about you have the thinking that you guys are way better than you actually are, Like I said I respect Turks alot but dont go off thinking that everyone else views you as better than Iranians or Arabs, they (Europeans west people) view as all the same ok. (only some ignorant westers who dont know anything think Turkey is a paradise spot and Turks are European like Greek) SO you aren't the best, or better than us, you are the same, but sometimes you go off thinking you are better than you really are:roflmao3:

[Noor]

Brothers, let's not argue in vain. Is it really that important to know from where gyros, kebabs or bachlava came from ? lol I for one, love the taste of all them :)

Let's concentrate on development and progress, Turkey and Iran can benefit hugely from co-operation in various sectors. If you show respect to others, others will show return your respect.

Sorry bro but will never happen, have you forgotten that Turkiye is helping to split Iran apart?:roflmao3:

[imtiaz82]

Sorry bro but will never happen, have you forgotten that Turkiye is helping to split Iran apart?:roflmao3:

Brother we have to realize the importance of unity. In US, I see the French, German and English immigrants so united and close to each other. Infact Europe is combining under the banner of "European Union".

But in the muslim world, every other country is suspicious of the other one. IRan thinks Saudi is involved in wahabi terrorism, while Saudi says Iran is sponsoring Shia militants in Iraq. If you go to Pakistan, they blame everything on Alqaeda and other groups from Afghanistan for all their problems. Now after coming here it looks like Turkey and Iran also have some issues. This is simply ridiculous, we should not go along this path as it only leads to destruction...

If some Turk says "we built the airport in Tehran" just reply "mashallah, good to see muslim helping each other". If an IRani says that "Iran help build the defense of Turkey" they should also reply with equal enthusiam.. This will unite us while the enemies will suffer.

[Noor]

Brother we have to realize the importance of unity. In US, I see the French, German and English immigrants so united and close to each other. Infact Europe is combining under the banner of "European Union".

But in the muslim world, every other country is suspicious of the other one. IRan thinks Saudi is involved in wahabi terrorism, while Saudi says Iran is sponsoring Shia militants in Iraq. If you go to Pakistan, they blame everything on Alqaeda and other groups from Afghanistan for all their problems. Now after coming here it looks like Turkey and Iran also have some issues. This is simply ridiculous, we should not go along this path as it only leads to destruction...

If some Turk says "we built the airport in Tehran" just reply "mashallah, good to see muslim helping each other". If an IRani says that "Iran help build the defense of Turkey" they should also reply with equal enthusiam.. This will unite us while the enemies will suffer.

Bro you have to realize Turkey and iran dont hate each other we just get pissed at each other because we can't agrre on many things and this has nothing to do with religion, Iranians(most of the ones I know and me) generally are not big fans of Arabs not because of shia sunni, but because of what they did to us in the past and continue to do to us:biggrin1:

[imtiaz82]

Bro you have to realize Turkey and iran dont hate each other we just get pissed at each other because we can't agrre on many things and this has nothing to do with religion, Iranians(most of the ones I know and me) generally are not big fans of Arabs not because of shia sunni, but because of what they did to us in the past and continue to do to us:biggrin1:

Well I know that the conflicts are based on past history and geo-political situation. But Islam can be a uniting factor among the various groups(Turks, Iranis or Arabs). European Union have used that to it's fullest extent. Why do you think most Europeans are against Turkey's inclusion in EU(while less developed Eastern european nations are taken in easily)? People say religion is not the reason, but at the end of the day it does matter sometime..

If there is a problem, there has to be a solution to it. If Arabs have mistreated Iran, then there must be a way to get out of it through dialogue and communication.

[Noor]

Well I know that the conflicts are based on past history and geo-political situation. But Islam can be a uniting factor among the various groups(Turks, Iranis or Arabs). European Union have used that to it's fullest extent. Why do you think most Europeans are against Turkey's inclusion in EU(while less developed Eastern european nations are taken in easily)? People say religion is not the reason, but at the end of the day it does matter sometime..

If there is a problem, there has to be a solution to it. If Arabs have mistreated Iran, then there must be a way to get out of it through dialogue and communication.

Bro not all arabs but Saudis are the ones that Iranians most despise, but Iranians dont mind other arabs. Also with Turkiye we all know its because they are muslim thats why eu doesnt want them, look at bosnia or albania, how comes eu doesnt accept them?:huh2: also like I said Iranians and Turks are brothers and don't hate each other, only when some Turks act like they are so much better than us it pisses some of us off:wub2: However Iranians will never be brothers with Saudis thats a fact.

[imtiaz82]

Bro not all arabs but Saudis are the ones that Iranians most despise, but Iranians dont mind other arabs. Also with Turkiye we all know its because they are muslim thats why eu doesnt want them, look at bosnia or albania, how comes eu doesnt accept them?:huh2: also like I said Iranians and Turks are brothers and don't hate each other, only when some Turks act like they are so much better than us it pisses some of us off:wub2: However Iranians will never be brothers with Saudis thats a fact.

What's the problem with IRan's relationship with Saudi Arabia? Is it an issue with the Saud family(the rulers) or the people in general?

[Noor]

What's the problem with IRan's relationship with Saudi Arabia? Is it an issue with the Saud family(the rulers) or the people in general?

I personally never met any saudis but from the Iranians I met they hate them.

[Kuheylan]

Bro not all arabs but Saudis are the ones that Iranians most despise, but Iranians dont mind other arabs. Also with Turkiye we all know its because they are muslim thats why eu doesnt want them, look at bosnia or albania, how comes eu doesnt accept them?:huh2: also like I said Iranians and Turks are brothers and don't hate each other, only when some Turks act like they are so much better than us it pisses some of us off:wub2: However Iranians will never be brothers with Saudis thats a fact.

THat underlined text can be said also about the Iranians too, so we are pretty the same people with the same way of thinking => WE ARE BIRADARS!

[Noor]

THat underlined text can be said also about the Iranians too, so we are pretty the same people with the same way of thinking => WE ARE BIRADARS!

haha i said it before, even bros fight sometimes:wub2:

[imtiaz82]

Instead of comparing Turkey and Iran, we should look at the bigger picture. We should aim to compete with Japan, Germany, France and other industrialized nations in science and technology.

Not to take anything away from you guys, but I admire the Malaysians in that respect, they are very humble and do not bother to show they are better than others, yet they are one of the few muslim countries aiming to be at the very top.

I would love to visit both Turkey and IRan someday, it consists of some of the most astonishing muslim architecture in the world..

[G-Capo]

Turks=Mongolians

[Simorgh]

i had never thought comparing my country to Iran.i dont consider Iran neither as a rival n