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MrWanted
02-12-2007, 11:56 AM
Can America survive?


By Peter McMahon - posted Monday, 12 February 2007 Sign Up for free e-mail updates!

International relations are changing fast, and one of the major trends is a growing challenge to American power. At the same time, American economic prosperity and political stability are increasingly shaky. A perfect storm is brewing for the greatest nation of modern times, so much so that we might ask whether America can even survive as a unified nation.

That emerging behemoth, China, recently launched an anti-satellite missile, announcing its arrival in the most exclusive level of global power politics, outer space. This action is a direct challenge to American power, specifically aimed at American technological superiority. America dominates outer space, commercially and militarily, and an anti-satellite capability can only be aimed at this dominance.

China, already the second military power, is also flexing its muscles in other ways, continuing to develop a modern military force (it recently unveiled its new home-built jet fighter) and pursuing a more assertive diplomatic program. Its primary aim is to secure natural resources, especially oil, and to raise Chinese influence globally.
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Russia is similarly resurgent, the resource-rich, ex-superpower playing the energy card. Still boasting the second largest nuclear arsenal, Russia is threatening to start another missile race in response to American programs. Russia is particularly concerned about an eastwards moving NATO and recent deployment of US forces in the region. Overall, relations between the two countries are the worst since the end of the Cold War.

Both these developments present serious problems for continued American supremacy. There is also the potential that China and Russia will find common cause, the old American nightmare.

Meanwhile, America is losing its current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and reports grow about an imminent attack on Iran, perhaps even a nuclear strike. What is now generally seen as America’s worst foreign policy mistake ever could turn into a genuine global crisis, which would include sky-rocketing oil prices.

All up, America’s military position overseas is dire, and there are growing concerns about the pressure on the US military itself. Under the new thinking, epitomised by Donald Rumsfeld, the US military was supposed to a relatively small high-tech force, but Iraq alone is already stretching it thin.

Furthermore, Washington has signally declined to show any leadership in relation to that looming global disaster, climate change, refusing to join the only serious attempt deal with it, the Kyoto Treaty. This abject failure, shown up by the initiatives of state governments like California indicates the confusion of the American political class.

No wonder international polling suggests that America’s reputation is suffering an unprecedented decline. A nation once highly respected is increasingly feared and loathed, and actually perceived as the greatest threat to world peace of all.

At home, the American political system is in slow meltdown with a lame-duck President who most voters now think is dishonest and incompetent. But George W. Bush’s failure is indicative of a more profound problem within the American political system.

The Democrats are a disorganised opposition with no alternative vision, and the system is corrupt from top to bottom as recent scandals have shown. It is no secret that American politics is nowadays owned by those with the money - Hilary Clinton reputedly has a campaign war chest of a billion dollars.

Even the economy, previously the bedrock of American power, is in trouble. Doubts about the long-term shift to a post-industrial economy and the growing fragility off the dollar suggest that the days of assumed prosperity are coming to an end. Those icons of American industrial power, the big car manufacturers, are in deep trouble and may even go under, out-competed by the smarter Asian and European car-makers.

The rich may be ever richer, but the average American grows worse off each year. At the bottom, workers are mired in poverty even as a large proportion of the lower classes, especially blacks, languish in prison. The American economy is splitting in two, the nervous rich and the increasingly destitute poor.

Abroad the economic situation is no better. For some years America has got away with being the world’s greatest debtor nation, thanks to the role of the dollar as de facto global currency. Now, the euro is emerging as a challenger, and Asian central banks in particular are considering their huge dollar reserves. If the loans that have kept America solvent and consuming dry up, the American economy will immediately tank, and perhaps the global economy will go with it.

With all this going on, one big question arises: can America survive?

The United States has always been a singularly strange creation. It is not a “natural” nation as such, based in some ethno-cultural history, but a conglomerate of cultures held together by government power or economic wealth. It was wrested by colonists from the British because it was just too rich to control from Britain, and the struggle gave Americans a false sense of national identity. Even then the separate colonies saw themselves as more important than any national entity.

Americans then benefited from the richest natural resources in the world and the wide moat that separated their country from war-riven Europe. With few internal physical boundaries and only a small indigenous population to overcome, and with expansionist governments buying or stealing huge tracts of land, white Americans soon claimed the whole north American continent bar Canada. The population rapidly expanded to fill it up thanks to the biggest migration in history from a large number of different countries and cultures.

The vast new nation was so large, diverse and rich that two very different approaches to economic development took off. One, based in industrial production and mostly domestic markets, took off in the north and one, based in agricultural production for export, in the south. Slavery was the basis of the southern economy, and this abhorrent system became the issue that sparked civil war.

The American Civil War remains the great war of American history, the first modern war and one that killed more Americans than any other. It is highly significant that the worst war America ever fought was against itself.

After the war, with the south militarily occupied, northern political and business elites pulled the US back together again, and soon the explosive growth associated with mass-industrial production for national markets largely overcame regional and cultural differences.

National government also took on the job of promoting national-scale economic activity, the ugly side of this being the virulent imperialism that gained the US control over Cuba and the Philippines. A sense of national identity grew as the US became the most powerful nation on earth, economically, ideologically, culturally and militarily. This supremacy was made clear by victory in World War II and then the Cold War.

But this unity has been somewhat illusory: the US has always been riven by great differences, racial, cultural, economic and political. Initially geographically defined in terms of north versus south, they have increasingly become east versus west, or as the most recent political maps show, coastal versus central. Serious cracks are showing in the American project, and as things get worse, these cracks may widen to become real divisions.

Overall, there is a profound shift happening in American politics as a gaping divide opens up between red Democrat America and blue Republican America. The divide reflects that great schism the Civil War, and it reflects the growing gap between wealthy, progressive, cosmopolitan America and poor, white, reactionary America.

This big shift came to ahead with the last two presidential elections. Somewhat foolishly in retrospect, the Republican-right establishment chose as its candidate for president the son of a past Republican President, thinking they were about to get a chip off the old block. For whatever reason - a flaky religiosity, the malign influence of a bunch of Washington insiders known as neo-cons - President George W. Bush has proved to be an enormous risk taker. Furthermore, he has manifestly failed in his most important gambles.

Bush, through starting expensive wars and giving tax cuts to the rich, has destroyed American fiscal stability, running huge deficits and radically undermining the American dollar. He has dismantled almost all serious environmental safeguards, failed to address the health crisis and done nothing about the burgeoning prison population that is merely a symptom of growing class and ethnic problems.

Overseas, Bush has demolished any global collective governance system, got the US involved in two vicious wars, and created ideal conditions for the growth of radical Islamic terrorism. He has failed to deal with the North Korean nuclear and missile programs, and he is threatening to attack Iran for its nuclear program while ripping up the only real anti-proliferation program in existence, the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

He has also radically undermined the US Constitution by denying basic civil rights, including turning the National Security Agency against American citizens, and greatly weakened civil rights by the draconian PATRIOT Act.

Opinion on Bush rule has polarised. The now beleaguered hard-Right support their President with growing ferocity, while the rest of America, which is increasingly shaded brown (and there’s another division - increasingly rich whites and increasingly poor browns and blacks) distrusts him. Right now Bush’s unpopularity is just about the only real unifying force in American politics.

However, once Bush is gone this anti-Bush majority will dissolve and the great split down the middle of America will become all the more obvious. The new presumably Democrat president will face extraordinary hostility from the religious-hard-Right who are much less wary of showing outright dissent than the Democrat-Left.

If this new president is Hillary Clinton, currently the Democrat front-runner, who the Right hates with a passion, or Barack Obama, currently running second to Clinton, an African-American, America could well see unprecedented levels of social and political dissent, and perhaps sustained violent opposition.

The right has always been more prone to expressing dissent through violence than the left. Militarism and guns are icons of the right, while the left prefer to organise and debate. While we should not forget that before the extraordinarily success of the September 11 attacks, the worst terrorist attack in American history was the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Okalahoma City in 1995 which killed 168 people. Those prosecuted for the atrocity were associated with a right-wing, white supremacist group acting in revenge for government actions against politico-religious dissenters at Waco.

A Democrat national government, especially if led by a woman or African-American president, introducing new laws to restrict use of SUVS to conserve oil and limit CO2 emissions, while signing up to international treaties on the environment, would push all the buttons of the religious right. Their opposition would run straight into the comprehensive and increasingly militarised federal counter-terrorism system now in place. It is a recipe for unprecedented political upheaval.

With all these pressures, internal and external, can America remain as a unified nation? Will states and regions, increasingly polarised in their popular sentiments, opt out of the national system. Would rich, smart, progressive California, in itself one of the ten largest economies in the world, be better off alone? Should the wealthy, socially progressive region of New England pull out of the union leaving behind the ever poorer and ever more reactionary Bible Belt states to fend for themselves?

If America suffers the economic, socio-cultural and political meltdown that seems increasingly likely, will the fragile idea of national unity give way to a new sectarianism as those who can do so take to the lifeboats?

American nationalism was born of revolutionary war, and then held together by military force, economic prosperity and global power. Under the combined pressure of external decline and domestic economic and political turmoil, will this great creation - like its erstwhile Cold War adversary - fall apart?

And a final question for those of is who live in that fair land - Australia. Under Prime Minister John Howard Australia has increasingly shifted into the US orbit. In every meaningful way - international relations, environmental policy, economic policy, social policy, cultural behaviour - Australia has gone down the American road. Australia’s own unique experiment in co-operative socio-economic development is being abandoned and a market-driven, American-style model put in its place.

Internationally, where we were once considered a very good global citizen, Australia has tamely followed the Bush line on Iraq, global warming, terrorism, trade, and so on. The Australian military could hardly operate these days without American approval.

So what will Australia - having lost international credibility and having affronted its regional neighbours with its subservience to the US - do if America implodes?

One way or another, fundamental structural change lies ahead for America. Perhaps the greatest attempt at democracy since the ancient Greeks will pull itself together and emerge even stronger, but perhaps not. Either way, the coming Presidential election will mark a watershed, and America in the near future will be a very different place to what it is today.

And either way, Australia will also need to develop new ways of thinking about itself and its place in the world.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5488

Mujahid786
01-26-2008, 09:42 PM
American era is over

Oriellien
01-26-2008, 10:23 PM
American era is over

Not for a while yet my friend. Its no longer the same as it was in the 90's, but the US is still the superpower. China's coming up soon, but China wont be exerting lots of foreign influence until its almost finished growing. However I do think because of Bush future US presidents will be more friendly and less controlling.

KMS_Tripitz
01-27-2008, 06:33 AM
Can America survive?


By Peter McMahon - posted Monday, 12 February 2007 Sign Up for free e-mail updates!

[QUOTE]International relations are changing fast, and one of the major trends is a growing challenge to American power. At the same time, American economic prosperity and political stability are increasingly shaky. A perfect storm is brewing for the greatest nation of modern times, so much so that we might ask whether America can even survive as a unified nation. The great dperession, world wars, civil war failed to achieve this. It is a dream not born in reality. The US may go into recession but thats all it will be.

That emerging behemoth, China, recently launched an anti-satellite missile, announcing its arrival in the most exclusive level of global power politics, outer space. This action is a direct challenge to American power, specifically aimed at American technological superiority. America dominates outer space, commercially and militarily, and an anti-satellite capability can only be aimed at this dominance. This is a military feet the US and Russia both did 40 years ago. Any nation with rockets capable of going into space can do the same with effective radar. China has a massive investment in space, it to wants to be a big player in space and as such will not risk its future by destroying objects in orib to a degree that will prevent its program. It was only testing the capability that in case place it could use. The same as many nations test nuclear weapons, but how many have been used since the end of WWII.

China, already the second military power, is also flexing its muscles in other ways, continuing to develop a modern military force (it recently unveiled its new home-built jet fighter) and pursuing a more assertive diplomatic program. Its primary aim is to secure natural resources, especially oil, and to raise Chinese influence globally. And... All nations this.


Russia is similarly resurgent, the resource-rich, ex-superpower playing the energy card. Still boasting the second largest nuclear arsenal, Russia is threatening to start another missile race in response to American programs. Russia is particularly concerned about an eastwards moving NATO and recent deployment of US forces in the region. Overall, relations between the two countries are the worst since the end of the Cold War.
Russis is a minow. Updating a few planes and ships and saying it is a world power is mistake. Russis has only resources that are of use as long as prices are high. What will russia do as the world moves away from oil?? sell vodka.How does a resurgent nations population decline by 1 million people per year? At present by 2035 Iran will have a higher population then Russia. A resurgent power it is not.

Both these developments present serious problems for continued American supremacy. There is also the potential that China and Russia will find common cause, the old American nightmare. China and the US have a very good relationship. There interests a similar and there futures are linked. The last few years have hardly seen a better peroid of Sino-US relations. China and the US will only move closer together as the years go by.

Meanwhile, America is losing its current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and reports grow about an imminent attack on Iran, perhaps even a nuclear strike. What is now generally seen as America’s worst foreign policy mistake ever could turn into a genuine global crisis, which would include sky-rocketing oil prices. Losing? Hmm perhaps you havnt seen nor read the news for the last year or more. Iraq the US is well and truely wining and by a huge margine. The reasons for this have been discussed at length in other threads, the edivdence is out there for all to see. Afganistan is still no where near the US losing, sure some bombings increased fighting, but with only 25,000 US troops there its not like the US cant commit more forces if required. The Taliban will never win they can only keep things unstable to a certain degree.

All up, America’s military position overseas is dire, and there are growing concerns about the pressure on the US military itself. Under the new thinking, epitomised by Donald Rumsfeld, the US military was supposed to a relatively small high-tech force, but Iraq alone is already stretching it thin. Once again havnt you seen the news, seems like this article is ver old. The army and marines are expanding by nearly 100,000 troops which is nearly half completed. A front running for the republicans policy is to expand the army and marines back up to 900,000 active duty troops a further increase of 150,000. Donald Rumsfeld was both right and wrong. Wars can be won with fewer troops and high tech, but occupations and security post war cannot. As for dire, I think you better go have a look at the US military.

Furthermore, Washington has signally declined to show any leadership in relation to that looming global disaster, climate change, refusing to join the only serious attempt deal with it, the Kyoto Treaty. This abject failure, shown up by the initiatives of state governments like California indicates the confusion of the American political class. I would agree over Kyoto although its more symbolic then fact. I guess your missing the US response to the disasters in the pacific where it commanded gloabal leaderships and the world looked to it for help. The US sent two dozen ships, 100 aircraft and 16,000 troops within 48 hours of the tsunami. What did china send, 1 medical team and 60 million dollars. The US commitment amounted to over $1 billion. The same for Australia, it lost serivcemen and women helping to save people they did not know but they did it any way to help people in need. Australia also contributed $1 billion the largest donation on per capita basis.

Tell me where was the resurgent Russia? The all powerful chinese that cant send ships much beyond a few hundred miles of its coast. Yet the US projects it power worldwide nearly instantly for conflict and humantirian missions. That is true power that takes many decades to acquire.

No wonder international polling suggests that America’s reputation is suffering an unprecedented decline. A nation once highly respected is increasingly feared and loathed, and actually perceived as the greatest threat to world peace of all. Reputations rise and fall. It has no reflection on actualt US power, decline or rise.

At home, the American political system is in slow meltdown with a lame-duck President who most voters now think is dishonest and incompetent. But George W. Bush’s failure is indicative of a more profound problem within the American political system. Just pure rubbish.

The Democrats are a disorganised opposition with no alternative vision, and the system is corrupt from top to bottom as recent scandals have shown. It is no secret that American politics is nowadays owned by those with the money - Hilary Clinton reputedly has a campaign war chest of a billion dollars. And I guesss Obmama the first black man to be president would also show a corrupt and decayed system?

Even the economy, previously the bedrock of American power, is in trouble. Doubts about the long-term shift to a post-industrial economy and the growing fragility off the dollar suggest that the days of assumed prosperity are coming to an end. Those icons of American industrial power, the big car manufacturers, are in deep trouble and may even go under, out-competed by the smarter Asian and European car-makers.

The rich may be ever richer, but the average American grows worse off each year. At the bottom, workers are mired in poverty even as a large proportion of the lower classes, especially blacks, languish in prison. The American economy is splitting in two, the nervous rich and the increasingly destitute poor.

Abroad the economic situation is no better. For some years America has got away with being the world’s greatest debtor nation, thanks to the role of the dollar as de facto global currency. Now, the euro is emerging as a challenger, and Asian central banks in particular are considering their huge dollar reserves. If the loans that have kept America solvent and consuming dry up, the American economy will immediately tank, and perhaps the global economy will go with it. What goes up must come down, all nations have recessions the US has had 10 since WWWII. I dont see the US declining from this one either. Recession are good for economies they help restructure the economy and create eficency where there was waste beforehand. Obviosuly this guy know little of economics.

With all this going on, one big question arises: can America survive? Yes.

I"respond to the rest latter, it mostly junk anyway.

Jadeite
01-28-2008, 08:04 PM
Not for a while yet my friend. Its no longer the same as it was in the 90's, but the US is still the superpower. China's coming up soon, but China wont be exerting lots of foreign influence until its almost finished growing. However I do think because of Bush future US presidents will be more friendly and less controlling.

I don't think China is going to make it. Their own Ministry of the Environment is predicting massive internal disruptions by 2050. Chinese deserts have doubled in area in the past decade, habitable land has decreased by 50%, acid rain falls on most of the country, and 650,000 Chinese citizens die every year from air pollution.

They've destroyed their country in an attempt to get rich quick, rather than taking a slower and more cautious path like India.

Chinapuma
02-11-2008, 05:21 AM
I don't think China is going to make it. Their own Ministry of the Environment is predicting massive internal disruptions by 2050. Chinese deserts have doubled in area in the past decade, habitable land has decreased by 50%, acid rain falls on most of the country, and 650,000 Chinese citizens die every year from air pollution.

They've destroyed their country in an attempt to get rich quick, rather than taking a slower and more cautious path like India.

Who said that. Can you give me proof.:frown3:

Charpan
02-11-2008, 05:28 AM
The american golden age is certainly over like our friend said , but they'll stay as an important power for at least half of the 21st century.

Chinapuma
02-11-2008, 05:29 AM
I think you are just an Indian, who is jealous about China. I admite that there are many problems China has to deal with, however, everything is going well. By the way, I will never want to be an Indian. Best Regard.

Chinapuma
02-11-2008, 05:31 AM
I think The Mighty USA woun't be dead so quickly, she can still be the Number 1 for the next fifty years.

Jadeite
02-11-2008, 08:30 AM
Who said that. Can you give me proof.:frown3:

China's Deputy Minister of the Environment (http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,345694,00.html)

Pan: This miracle will end soon because the environment can no longer keep pace. Acid rain is falling on one third of the Chinese territory, half of the water in our seven largest rivers is completely useless, while one fourth of our citizens does not have access to clean drinking water. One third of the urban population is breathing polluted air, and less than 20 percent of the trash in cities is treated and processed in an environmentally sustainable manner. Finally, five of the ten most polluted cities worldwide are in China.

There's much more in the article.

Chinapuma
02-11-2008, 06:42 PM
" and 650,000 Chinese citizens die every year from air pollution"


I asked who said that?

Jadeite
02-11-2008, 07:25 PM
" and 650,000 Chinese citizens die every year from air pollution"


I asked who said that?

Chinese air pollution deadliest in world. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070709-china-pollution.html)

A World Health Organization (WHO) report estimates that diseases triggered by indoor and outdoor air pollution kill 656,000 Chinese citizens each year, and polluted drinking water kills another 95,600. (Related: "China's Pollution Leaving Mountains High and Dry, Study Finds" [March 8, 2007].)

Oriellien
02-12-2008, 10:54 PM
The american golden age is certainly over like our friend said , but they'll stay as an important power for at least half of the 21st century.

Personally I dont think its arrived yet. The US is still in the "republic" stage.

@anti#boz@
02-12-2008, 11:01 PM
In many strategists mind America gona overturn in few years

sample soon

Charpan
02-13-2008, 05:41 AM
Personally I dont think its arrived yet. The US is still in the "republic" stage.

what's the stage after that ? u're not thinking that an actual emperor would hold the office when ur american dream comes true ?

mustavaris
02-13-2008, 05:58 AM
I don't think China is going to make it. Their own Ministry of the Environment is predicting massive internal disruptions by 2050. Chinese deserts have doubled in area in the past decade, habitable land has decreased by 50%, acid rain falls on most of the country, and 650,000 Chinese citizens die every year from air pollution.

They've destroyed their country in an attempt to get rich quick, rather than taking a slower and more cautious path like India.

Add:

Around half of the water sources they have, are already polluted beyond safe use. Majority of the rest is lost soon.

The total number of preventable deaths due to environmental causes is counted in millions, annually. Depending on the sources used, we talk about 1-2,5M deaths per annum.

A story to remember: around the turn of millenium Finnish health inspectors confiscated Chinese soy sauce and it was withdrawn from the markets.. the reason, it had such a high mercury content that a single bottle of it had enough of the heavy metals to cause a chronic mercury poisoning for an adult person. In the end, it did not turn out that they had not sent here a spoiled stuff as soy is really efficient at absorbing heavy metals from the soil... but stuff from the production line which was meant to supply their indigenous markets, which had somehow passed their controls... A relative of mine works at the lab where they check imported foodstuff, and their results tell that even the Chinese organic products may have such amounts of heavy metals in them that our (strict) limits are exceeded by large margins.

And the environment is not their only problem.

Chinapuma
02-13-2008, 06:07 AM
Chinese air pollution deadliest in world. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070709-china-pollution.html)



Wo,That is very informative. However, I don't believe it. Cause I am a Chinese, and I have never heard something like that. Yes, the environment in China is very bad, but I don't think it will kill 650.000 people per year.

mustavaris
02-13-2008, 06:08 AM
" and 650,000 Chinese citizens die every year from air pollution"


I asked who said that?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2006-03/13/content_533451.htm

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=274&Itemid=34

Coal alone: 700 000 deaths Mining: 20 000 deaths

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070709-china-pollution.html

This says.. A World Health Organization (WHO) report estimates that diseases triggered by indoor and outdoor air pollution kill 656,000 Chinese citizens each year, and polluted drinking water kills another 95,600. (Related: "China's Pollution Leaving Mountains High and Dry, Study Finds" [March 8, 2007].)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/07/04/eachina104.xml

So it is not the WHO alone: World bank talks about 750K annual deaths.

And if you wish to dig out sources which do not have need to kiss Chicom butts, you´ll find even far worse figures.

mustavaris
02-13-2008, 06:13 AM
And btw: in the last link I gave... the Chicom officials did not comment.. they did not even try to bother themselves with deneying attempts. You may draw your conclusions from that.

mustavaris
02-13-2008, 06:15 AM
Wo,That is very informative. However, I don't believe it. Cause I am a Chinese, and I have never heard something like that. Yes, the environment in China is very bad, but I don't think it will kill 650.000 people per year.

There are plenty of things totalitarian regimes love to keep away from their citizens.

And if WHO and World Bank aint real enough, well... I suppose that you´ll just continue the happy happy joy joy ways of life and we´ll talk again later. As it wont take too long before you´ll have real issues with water.

Chinapuma
02-13-2008, 06:38 AM
Wo, That is very scary. Hope thing will become better.

retaxis
02-13-2008, 10:47 AM
Doesn't matter if chinese people die of pollution, she has more people, But India is facing a population crisis. Sure it has a younger population but a younger population is much more trouble then it seems when a small country like India can not feed, give jobs and educate 1.5billion-2billion people in the future. And we all know when there are not enough food or jobs or opportunaties, crime levels skyrocket and riots begin.

Both China and India face HUGE issues. Both are dealing with corruption, pollution, population and etc. I personally don't care if a few million chinese die every year from high levels of radiation or coal pollution. It is a way of controlling the population and it also provides more jobs for those who do not have jobs. Keep the country running. One child policy is doing great also but it is giving rise to an older generation. But that should not slow the economy down too much as the government told the people that they need to be more independent and in the future they will not receive as much of their monthly retirement salary as they are now.

Sokuy30
02-13-2008, 01:39 PM
America is not dying, She will change direction pretty soon. Devils and Jenns if they leave U.S. alone, she is great country, world looks up at America!
Few bad things happened here It was not out of our control we have let devils take control of our future, We will put an end to this take over by "demons", Insha,allah.
We have a great nation here that has lost her soul few short moment in history! we shall prevail.
Mahati my good friend would have said.:xmas_emot3:
"Demons" means People with bad thoughts and deeds! for example GW, bush/Rumsfeld/d, Chaney.

mustavaris
02-13-2008, 02:22 PM
Doesn't matter if chinese people die of pollution, she has more people..... I personally don't care if a few million chinese die every year from high levels of radiation or coal pollution.

Once the people realize that they are being let to die en masse, they will do what the every nation has to do when the government does not serve the nation. Pollution is the problem which may bring in the end of the rotten communist regime.

Chinapuma
02-13-2008, 10:03 PM
:roflmao3:Once the people realize that they are being let to die en masse, they will do what the every nation has to do when the government does not serve the nation. Pollution is the problem which may bring in the end of the rotten communist regime.


I doubt that.

mustavaris
02-14-2008, 12:20 AM
What are you going to do when we see either a)the commies are put out of business b) they have to take drastic turn in their environmental policies?

Either of those has to happen within 10..20 years.

And within the same period of time, we will see a wave of crises within Chinese water and food supply..

retaxis
02-14-2008, 01:10 AM
What are you going to do when we see either a)the commies are put out of business b) they have to take drastic turn in their environmental policies?

Either of those has to happen within 10..20 years.

And within the same period of time, we will see a wave of crises within Chinese water and food supply..

CHina has always been ruled by dictatorship. Never in its 4000+ years of dynastic rule has it been ruled by democracy. One dictator will just take over from another one.

Chinapuma
02-14-2008, 04:29 AM
What are you going to do when we see either a)the commies are put out of business b) they have to take drastic turn in their environmental policies?

Either of those has to happen within 10..20 years.

And within the same period of time, we will see a wave of crises within Chinese water and food supply..


Yep, China have been developed a lot, but she still is consisted by 8 billion farmers who still worship Chair Mao a lot. As a result, I don't think the CCP will be overthrew by the people, most possibly it will become a general parties, but still have the chance to rule all over China,if it wins the election. I think it will be the best for China and the World.:smile1:

Chinapuma
02-14-2008, 04:39 AM
CHina has always been ruled by dictatorship. Never in its 4000+ years of dynastic rule has it been ruled by democracy. One dictator will just take over from another one.


What do you mean?
Do you suggest that China for her long dictatorial history will never become a democratic country. If so, I think you need to educate youtself, or you just have to visit HongKong or Taiwan and then you will come up a conclusion that all countries can become a democratic country.
Best regard, For China.:smile1:

Caniculae
02-14-2008, 06:45 PM
The future of the US as a super power depends imo if it continues on the path it is walking down right now. Since after WW2, the US have invaded multiple countries for various reasons, failing to learn what the rest of the western world did; War only leads to suffering. That war is indeed no longer a viable way to make effective change in the 21 century is being shown right now in Iraq, and was shown in Vietnam as well as in Afghanistan. For all its military might, the US "can't hit what they can't see", and guerilla warfare will live on as long as citizens in occupied countries consider themselves oppressed.

What the US should do, and should have done before, is to work closer with the rest of the world as a whole, not choosing only to part with those who are in favor of their agendas. You just have to look at Europe, once mostly a close ally of the US. Now, the citizens and nations of Europe are beginning to recent and condemn american politics. The middle east is now in flames, as if the fire needed more fueling what with Israel and the arab states already having issues.

I have high hopes that the next president of the US will be a democrat, so that we may hopefully see some end to the continuous wars against the middle east. Hopefully, the war in Iraq has convinced american tacticians that war is no longer the way to make radical changes to nations. If not, then the US may find itself alone, without international support or strong brothers in arms to assist them. And I don't think the world, nor the american people or leaders, would want that.

Conan
02-17-2008, 01:04 AM
Not for a while yet my friend. Its no longer the same as it was in the 90's, but the US is still the superpower. China's coming up soon, but China wont be exerting lots of foreign influence until its almost finished growing. However I do think because of Bush future US presidents will be more friendly and less controlling.

Really? :err2:

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/ea_china_02_15.asp

If China is such a superpower then why is their economy in shambles?
If China is a superpower wouldn't they be driving the global economy...instead of being depended on America?

The american golden age is certainly over like our friend said , but they'll stay as an important power for at least half of the 21st century.

By 2034 United States will double its economy. That even counting in recessions.

Behrooz Boonabi
02-17-2008, 01:07 AM
I think The Mighty USA woun't be dead so quickly, she can still be the Number 1 for the next fifty years.

If it was a free county that woulb be true, its not.

Chinapuma
02-17-2008, 01:34 AM
If it was a free county that woulb be true, its not.



USA is a free country.

Chinapuma
02-17-2008, 01:48 AM
Really? :err2:

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/ea_china_02_15.asp

If China is such a superpower then why is their economy in shambles?
If China is a superpower wouldn't they be driving the global economy...instead of being depended on America?



By 2034 United States will double its economy. That even counting in recessions.



Man, cool down. We never boast our economy, and we never believe that China can overtake USA in the near future. If we are talking about average income let's say China can never be near USA, of cause, at the assumption that USA never collapse.:biggrin1:

Conan
02-17-2008, 01:53 AM
Man, cool down. We never boast our economy, and we never believe that China can overtake USA in the near future. If we are talking about average income let's say China can never be near USA, of cause, at the assumption that USA never collapse.:biggrin1:

Well some day if things work out....When were in a recession, China and Europe will pull us out. When Europe is in recession, United States and China can pull them out. When China is in recession, Europe and United States can pull them out. And maybe India in the future will be included.

That's in a idea world anyway. ;)

Chinapuma
02-17-2008, 03:01 AM
Well some day if things work out....When were in a recession, China and Europe will pull us out. When Europe is in recession, United States and China can pull them out. When China is in recession, Europe and United States can pull them out. And maybe India in the future will be included.

That's in a idea world anyway. ;)


YA,that is why the world have Heisenberg, and his theory of "uncertainty principle".HA HA HA..Best Regard.:biggrin1: