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lulldapull
02-04-2006, 09:56 AM
IEDs: The Lazy Man's Insurgency

(IMG:http://www.exile.ru/images/authors/3.gif)
By Gary Brecher ( war_nerd@exile.ru )


It's time to take another look at Iraq, because there's been a big change in insurgent tactics in 2005. That's inevitable. War makes people on both sides think faster. Peacetime armies never learn anything; wartime armies learn new tricks faster than a hungry raccoon.

The big change is that the insurgents have decided to rely on IEDs rather than ambushes with shoulder-fired weapons to kill the two or three GIs per day they figure they need to wear down the US public's will to stay in the fight. And it's working, way too well.



The stats are clear: IED victims make up a bigger chunk of our casualties every month. Over the last six months, IEDs have caused 63% of US combat deaths. Last month (October 2005) was typical: out of 96 US troops killed, IEDs were responsible for 57.


Compare that with April 2004, a terrible month when we lost 140 troops. Back then the insurgents relied on RPGs and small arms. Only 19 of our 140 KIA that month-barely more than a tenth-were killed by IEDs.

The insurgents have decided to do it the easy way. As long as they can use IEDs, their low-tech standoff weapon, why should they risk close combat?

The real question is why they can get away with it. And here-well, I hate to keep saying this, but somebody needs to. The reason they can do it is because we still have NO INTEL on them. It's the biggest failure of the war, and nobody talks about it. CI warfare is about people, not hardware. We're all hardware and no intelligence, like a Tim Allen show. Makes me sick.

That makes the decision to go with IEDs a no-brainer for the insurgents. In the standard ambush, the kind we were facing a year ago, the insurgents detonated an IED under a convoy, then opened up on the stalled survivors with RPG and small arms fire. It probably made them feel good, sort of their version of shock and awe, but the rifle fire was ineffective and by concentrating their forces, the insurgents made themselves vulnerable to our air power.


The problem in any guerrilla battle is the getaway. Anybody can pull a trigger; the trick is getting your men home safe, while enemy choppers zoom through the sky and every street is full of troops and armor looking for men of military age. That's the tough part.

An IED ambush has none of those risks. Only one man needs to be on the spot-the triggerman. He detonates the IED from a car parked down a side street and drives away before the occupiers can even start their search. No risk. No casualties. Very demoralizing for the occupiers, especially since they know damn well that everybody in the neighborhood was in on the attack but they can't level the locals' shacks like they're dying to.

What makes this wave of IEDs worse is that the devices are getting more effective. Frankly I've been shocked at how good the Iraqis are with these things right from the start. I mean, after that shameful performance in GW I, did you expect these bastards to be so sneaky, patient, and smart? I knew this war was a bad idea, but even I never realized what we'd be up against.

The scariest tech development of all is that the insurgents have learned how to make shaped-charged IEDs. To understand why shaped charges are such a powerful weapon, we have to go into the incredibly cool world of explosive physics. I love this stuff. I mean, what red-blooded American boy didn't experiment with explosives? The only reason I ever opened my Chem book was to see if it mentioned TNT or dynamite in the index. (It didn't-goddamn hippie teachers.) And naturally I used the local wildlife, like toads and bees, in my experiments with the killing power of firecrackers.

What I learned was the most important point about the subject: blast alone doesn't do a good job of killing the target. A bee would wobble off unhurt after one of my 4th of July daisycutters went off right next to it.

Now before you hotheads whose hobby is making pipe bombs in the garage write me angry letters (or send me long round packages with no return address), I know a blast can kill, if it's a big enough blast. We had a really nasty example of that in August this year, when a huge IED killed 14 Marines near Haditha. From what I've read, investigation showed there was nothing special about the IED. It was just three anti-tank mines stacked in a pile-the IHOP of IEDs, I guess you could call it.

That ambush showed real clearly how important intelligence is in guerrilla warfare. The same unit that suffered the IED attack had just had six of its snipers killed in a small-arms ambush. Now you tell me how anybody can ambush six snipers unless they've completely penetrated the unit. The insurgents knew where the unit's snipers would assemble, and they knew where the vehicle would be passing. We don't know a thing about the enemy, but it's clear that he knows way too much about us.:D

The other problem is that the 14 Marines were riding in one of those ridiculous landing crafts the Corps uses as APCs-in Haditha, hundreds of clicks from the sea! It's called the AAV-7A1, and it looks like a giant armored dinghy. Since it was designed to ferry troops ashore, it sacrifices armor and speed and damn near everything else to an amphibious capability that has no use anymore. But that's the Corps for you. Real brave, but not always real smart.

Maybe if those guys had been in a real APC some would have survived. I can't say. If the blast is big enough, it can kill even an MBT. The Pals took out two Israeli Merkavas, the best-armored tanks in the world, with simple blast IEDs.

But most of the time, guerrillas don't have the delivery systems to depend on blast power. If they're trying to kill soft targets-i.e. people-they pack the bomb with homemade shrapnel: roofing nails, ball bearings, anything that'll shred flesh. A suicide vest tipped with nails is basically a 360-degree 12 gauge.


To kill GIs that way, you need to catch them off-guard, somewhere they feel safe. That's what happened when a Jihadi killed more than a dozen of our guys in a mess hall in Mosul while they were having lunch--minus their body armor.

In the field, US troops are a hard kill, especially because they move in armored convoys protected by choppers. And that's the real beauty of IED attacks for a guerrilla: they absolutely nullify US air power. There are literally no targets for the attack choppers. The pilots know damn well that one of those Iraqi cars driving away from the scene is carrying the guy who set off the IED, but there's no way to tell which one.


In a strange way, we're looking at a 3D war. We control the air, but the Iraqis literally control the underground, thanks to these buried IEDs. We fly, they dig.

The insurgents' first IEDs were simple. Not that there's anything wrong with simple. The weapons that have been hurting us are all simple, like the RPG. Simplicity is the guerrilla's friend.

Those early IEDs were usually just shells buried by the road, wired up to a detonator. Lots of amateurs were tinkering in their garages, or whatever Iraqis have instead of garages, playing with stuff that goes boom. And naturally lots of those guys went boom themselves.

Like I said, war teaches people fast, but some of the lessons have to be learned by the next of kin, not the handyman whose bright idea for a new type of bomb turned him into an abstract painting all over his wall.

Sometimes an insurgency has to learn its lessons several times. Take the case of pressure-triggered IEDs. These are basically standard anti-vehicle mines, with something like a bathroom scale as trigger. People and cars can pass over them unharmed, but if a really heavy (meaning armored) vehicle rolls over that scale, the bomb goes off. (Trucks are a problem. Some trucks weigh as much as an APC.) The best part is that you don't even need a triggerman to set it off. You can all be off at the hookah parlor polishing up your alibis when it goes off.

The insurgents in Baqouba used pressure bombs in 2003, but they usually failed to go off. Their bombmakers didn't have the technique yet.

Thanks to info-sharing, the internet gives an insurgency, they're back at it, with better wiring diagrams. A week ago (Oct. 24 '05), a pressure bomb shredded a Humvee in Baqouba, tearing four GIs legs to pieces.

The first IEDs were mostly mortar rounds that failed against our armor. So the insurgents went to big 155mm rounds. That's a big, big shell and when you trigger it at the right moment, it's going to kill almost anything but an M1.

The M1 is a great tank, so it's kind of scary to read the stats on how many of them the insurgents have managed to knock out. As usual, the invasion was the easy part and the occupation was when things got lethal. We only lost 18 M1s in the conventional fighting, but the guerrillas have since managed to disable 80. Now most of those are track damage, but that's enough to put a tank out of action.

The good news is that the M1 has lived up to its rep for crew protection. The Army's Armor Center says only five crew have died in IED attacks on M1s. (Ten other M1 crew have been killed, mostly by sniper fire, riding in open hatches.)

So if you're an insurgent bomb-maker, your goal is to find a way to kill M1s. Not just knock a tread off, but destroy it and kill the crew. And that's where the shaped-charge IED comes in. Shaped charges were developed for tank killing, used in MBT anti-armor rounds and antitank weapons. Their warheads are basically thick cups of soft metal. Metals with low melting points, usually copper. The bomb-maker's job is to make sure as much of the force of the blast is channeled to the copper cone as possible. So sometimes he'll put several 155mm shells beneath the copper, or pack a whole lot of TNT under it.

When the IED detonates, this copper cup turns into a shaft of superheated metal that can zip right through any armor, even an M1's. That's what they tell me, and I have to believe it.

It's the kind of weird science that used to frustrate me in Physics, the sort of info you just have to take on faith. I can't help wondering if they're kidding us civvies about it all. I don't get why a soft metal like copper can penetrate Chobham armor, which can defeat almost any warhead around.

Apparently the copper isn't even actually molten. It ejects as a solid; it just "behaves like molten metal." I'm sure the insurgent Home Improvement tinkerers don't understand the science involved any more than I do. They just hear that it works and try it out.

The US countermeasures have been pretty lame so far. Convoys travel with jammers that make it harder to detonate the IED by cell phone or garage door opener-Nokia and Genie sales are going to drop in the Sunni Triangle. But like I said, low-tech is the guerrilla's friend. These days they've gone back to wires, and I hear some are even using string. You can't jam a string.


Beyond that, Bush policy is to blame Iran, or Syria, or Satan or whoever.

Iran? Maybe. Syria? No way. Syria's scared to death, ready to do anything to make Uncle Sam happy. And if it is Iran, what can we do about it? There are still a few neocons so totally out of their little gourds they want us to invade Iran. I have to wonder if they're agents of Dr Evil, programmed to destroy America. Because invading Iran would do it, it'd end us once and for all.

This blame stuff is a sign of frustration. Nobody knows how to stop IEDs, even with all the Popular Mechanics geeks sending in their garage-tech brainstorms. That's because-damn, how many times do I have to repeat it?-guerrilla war has no technical solution. Or even military solution. The only effective CI techniques are torture, reprisal and, ultimately, genocide.

My guess is that genocide will come back one day. That was how the Ancients dealt with rebellious towns: wiped 'em out. One of these days some first-world country is going to get impatient and a problem child like the Sunni Triangle will be a big, radioactive ghost town.

If we don't do it, the Kurds may end up doing it the old-fashioned way they learned from the Turks: one bullet, one village at a time. It's been done before--seen any Armenians up there lately? Probably not, but most of "Kurdistan" used to be "Armenia." A few of the Armenians made it to Fresno, but the rest are buried up there.

We're talking about Mesopotamia here, the place where war was invented. Hundreds of peoples have been wiped out forever in those parts. All these Holocaust lobbyists get furious if anybody says Jews aren't the only tribe to get genocided, but that's just politics-"Our genocide is better than your genocide!"

The fact is, genocide is, historically, the most common result when one tribe runs into another. And something tells me the next big wipeout will happen right there in Central Iraq.
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Snauhi
02-04-2006, 12:55 PM
War nerd is one hell of liberal guy, have you seen how fat he is?

AK-101
02-04-2006, 01:04 PM
sad sad sad

isr agent
02-04-2006, 01:32 PM
But raqin in the USA they see those muslim terrorists as the bad guys, so as far as they are concerned your statement serves them perfectly.

patio87
02-04-2006, 05:51 PM
IN the end the oppressors always lose:cool:

the bad guys always lose in the end:cool:

Kinda like Saddam Hussein?? You think he's a good guy?

patio87
02-04-2006, 06:44 PM
This is funny

http://www.rockpapersaddam.com/one.html

hammerfast
02-04-2006, 07:26 PM
Ten other M1 crew have been killed, mostly by sniper fire, riding in open hatches ,

so that juba does exist mohmar !
80 abrams wow,

hammerfast
02-04-2006, 07:37 PM
War nerd is one hell of liberal guy, have you seen how fat he is?

heh , he's fat , so what? what "was" sharon ? phat?

Snauhi
02-05-2006, 01:50 AM
heh , he's fat , so what? what "was" sharon ? phat?

Sharon have been a general...

Snauhi
02-05-2006, 01:51 AM
Ten other M1 crew have been killed, mostly by sniper fire, riding in open hatches ,

so that juba does exist mohmar !
80 abrams wow,

Link please

hammerfast
02-05-2006, 02:38 AM
http://www.afvnews.ca/cgi-bin/web-bbs/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/62043

hammerfast
02-05-2006, 02:40 AM
Sharon have been a general...
a fat general................

AK-101
02-05-2006, 01:50 PM
Yes exaclty like Saddam Hussain and the devils that put him into power....ie West

Wow your a ******* idiot, do you even know how he got into power?!
HE TOOK POWER HIMSELF KICKING HIS FAMILY MEMBER OUT OF OFFICE YOU DUMB PIECE OF ****. Loosen that bomb thats strapped to your head, maybe then you could think logically.

hurdy
02-05-2006, 03:23 PM
If it wasn't for the Iraqi insurgency the US would be fighting the insurgency in Iran by now

hammerfast
02-05-2006, 06:47 PM
If it wasn't for the Iraqi insurgency the US would be fighting the insurgency in Iran by now

ye they're doing a great job there
i like those ied stuff

Hoosier34
02-06-2006, 09:54 PM
So the IEDs they are using now are some kind of homemade kinetic round. Well its an insurgancy we don't expect them to throw dirt balls at us. The military doesnt put lots of tanks and apcs filled with troops in the streets because they are trying to give the new Iraqi government legitimacy. I will say this again. The United states isnt in the business of conquering, its in the business of removing the bad guys, setting up good guys and then supporting the good guys until everything gets stable. The US is winning the war in Iraq and I can give you 2 reasons that should make my point.

1. They think its a major victory when they kill 100 Americans in a month, out of a total force in the region of close 200k counting naval and air assets within the region.

2. The Iraqi army is getting alot better, and carrying on much of the fight now, so much so that we can now get ready to start using our Troops to go on hunting missions for the remaining insurgants.

This is not Vietnam, our military is going to stay there until Iraq is stable and I am thinking we are winning and will have this thing rapped up in under 2 years.

Cya
Brad

lulldapull
02-07-2006, 09:51 AM
So the IEDs they are using now are some kind of homemade kinetic round. Well its an insurgancy we don't expect them to throw dirt balls at us. The military doesnt put lots of tanks and apcs filled with troops in the streets because they are trying to give the new Iraqi government legitimacy. I will say this again. The United states isnt in the business of conquering, its in the business of removing the bad guys, setting up good guys and then supporting the good guys until everything gets stable. The US is winning the war in Iraq and I can give you 2 reasons that should make my point.

1. They think its a major victory when they kill 100 Americans in a month, out of a total force in the region of close 200k counting naval and air assets within the region.

2. The Iraqi army is getting alot better, and carrying on much of the fight now, so much so that we can now get ready to start using our Troops to go on hunting missions for the remaining insurgants.

This is not Vietnam, our military is going to stay there until Iraq is stable and I am thinking we are winning and will have this thing rapped up in under 2 years.

Cya
Brad


Excuse me, but more than 15 U.S. troops have been killed in the last few days, with another 2 dozen injured. In addition at least 50 Iraqi security forces have also been killed;)

That is by no god-damn means 'Winning" the war on terror.:D

The United States will be defeated in Iraq! Get that through your thick skull brad.:rolleyes:

Highsky
02-07-2006, 11:29 AM
They deceive Iraqi poeple and Iraqi army that they would be free and be happy after saddam.They told we want Iraqi Freedom whiches were lie and nonsense words.after the occupation Iraqis whiches supported us before the war saw that they did nt came for Iraqi poeple but just for their business.
So No support - No victory at all

lulldapull
02-07-2006, 11:35 AM
They deceive Iraqi poeple and Iraqi army that they would be free and be happy after saddam.They told we want Iraqi Freedom whiches were lie and nonsense words.after the occupation Iraqis whiches supported us before the war saw that they did nt came for Iraqi poeple but just for their business.
So No support - No victory at all

Auray! these hillbilly's will lose this war in Iraq! That would be great for Iran!:D :D :D

Highsky
02-07-2006, 11:41 AM
Auray! these hillbilly's will lose this war in Iraq! That would be great for Iran!:D :D :D
we have to thank us army because they did the dirty job for us. Taliban and saddam were our biggest enemy in the region, they fal because of us war.
Iran has more then ever influence in afghanistan,Iraq, lebanon. but their job is done they may to return to home hehe.

Hoosier34
02-07-2006, 11:57 AM
The United States and the new Iraqi governemt are winning the war in Iraq. Iran should be happy about that. For its leadership to believe the hype that the United States is stretched thin, or doenst have the capacity to take on anybody else is a big mistake. The Iranians should of came on board and helped us in Iraq like they helped us in Afghanistan. I am begining to believe that some people in Iran and Iraq want a conflict no matter what just becuase for some reason its easier to control people when there is this phantom threat out there.

Cya
Brad

Hoosier34
02-07-2006, 12:00 PM
Lull why do you root against your own Country? Who would trust or take as an ally or would accept support from someone who is a traitor to there country when that country still takes care of you even if you despise its governmental policies? It gives you the free speech to say all the lies you say on here?

Brad

lulldapull
02-07-2006, 12:36 PM
Lull why do you root against your own Country? Who would trust or take as an ally or would accept support from someone who is a traitor to there country when that country still takes care of you even if you despise its governmental policies? It gives you the free speech to say all the lies you say on here?

Brad

No I am not against my country. Excuse me, but I am against the war party. Assasinating/ Killing ppl, wiping out civil rights and liberties, freedom of speech and expression, torturing ppl in CIA run Gulags are not 'American' values. Its a disgrace what the Christian fundo thugs are doing to our country. Threatening Iran for a non existant weapons program, just to deny them access to nuclear technology is nothing short of thug behaviour. And quit supporting jewish terrorists Brad. :mad:

Hoosier34
02-07-2006, 12:59 PM
Jewish Terrorists? Do you have any idea what the IDF is packing? They have nukes, they have over 4000 AFV,14000 apcs, they have like 1800 Merkava tanks alone. They have tankers, Early warning aircraft, bombers, better fighters and better trained pilots then the United States overall. If the Jews were terrorists and had no problem killing civillians, or murdering people like some Arab Terrorists then do you think Israel would be having the trouble it has in Palestine? The Jews are bending over backwards to help the palestinians.

Since when is ousting Sadamn thug behavior? He gassed his own people, he gassed Iranians, he killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, his sons raped women at random, his secret police tortured untold thousands and yet we are the terrorists? We gave him chemical weapons, that was a mistake made by another administration, this one is fixing the mistake as best as it can.

Terrorsts arent even Muslims imho, because anybody that believes in god would not thrive on killing another human being made by god. How can God be a fan of racisim against Jews or Arabs or Whites, or Asians when he created them all ???

Finally here is the second part of an article about the Iraq war in the middle east that will hopefully give a perspective about the US military and what it thinks is going on. Its by a US general over there so even though Idon't think its propaganda its definately from a point of view of somebody that believes in what the United States is doing.
From the frontlines in Iraq -- Part II
By W. Thomas Smith, Jr.

Feb 6, 2006


In Part I of Townhall.com's exclusive two-part interview with Brigadier General Daniel P. Bolger, commander of the Coalition Military Assistance Training Team in Iraq, we covered a variety of topics as they relate to the standing-up of the new Iraqi Army. Among those were Iraqi soldier motivations (Why do they fight?), Iraqi Army strengths and weaknesses, and problems associated with training Iraqi soldiers.

Bolger also explained why Iraq is not devolving into ‘civil war’ – as some have suggested – in the purest definition of the term. Additionally, he says, the recent bloody infighting between domestic insurgents and foreign-led “Al Qaeda in Iraq” (also known as “Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia”) is a real opportunity for the new Iraqi government.

In Part II, Bolger discusses the so-called “Arab mind,” Iraqi perceptions of soldierly virtues, U.S. troop morale, what Americans back home might be surprised to know, and why the U.S. and its allies will ultimately defeat the insurgency in Iraq.

WTSjr: Westerners often talk about “the Arab mind” and how it is different than the Western mind. In that sense, is their perception of the soldierly virtues – things like courage and honor – different from our own? And would you elaborate on Iraqi perceptions of courage and honor.

BOLGER: I do not subscribe to an Arab mind or ‘an Oriental mind’ – with apologies to the late General of the Army Douglas MacArthur – or anything like that. The daily lesson I get is that Iraqis are individuals. Sure, they have cultural views based on their upbringing. Who doesn’t?

In Iraq, years of isolation and repression have made a lot of people here especially insular, magnifying this region’s tendency to value strong extended family ties. When you can’t trust the government – Ottomans, British mandate, Ba’athist socialists, and then the ultimate Ba’athist dictator, Saddam – you go with whom you can trust. People here rely on the family, writ large, sometimes called “tribes” in recognition of their size: thousands of relatives claiming kinship.

What has impressed me is how willing most Iraqis seem to be to look at other points of view. For so long, they got one way – Saddam’s way – shoved down their throats. I have seen a genuine interest in other ways, and it is not unusual to find your conversation with an Iraqi private, sergeant, or captain drift into all kinds of areas. Things like: Do Americans believe in God? What is success in private business? What is federalism in America? Why do Americans care about Iraqis? Do Americans have weapons in their homes? Why don’t Americans seem to like soccer? These are reasonable questions, as are many others. The fact that they get asked, tells me that the minds here are very much open to new possibilities.

In terms of courage and honor, those are esteemed traits in Iraq, and especially in the military. Iraq’s soldiers have a good reputation in Iraqi society for the right reason. They put their lives on the line to protect the people. Of course, without skill, discipline, and leadership, courage does not get much done. Units fight well not because every soldier in each unit is fearless, but because the strength of the teamwork allows a multiplier effect to those who are brave.

As far as honor, this is very important to any Iraqi in uniform. An Iraqi who makes a promise, will carry it out, even in the face of death.

Iraqi commanders consider it their duty to look after their U.S. or coalition advisors – Australians, British, Danes, Italians, Koreans, Poles, among others who also serve in this role. In all of this fighting, we have never had a military advisor captured. We have never had one betrayed. And though we have suffered advisors wounded and killed, every one came home, often at cost to our Iraqi partners who saw to that. That is Iraqi military honor at work.

WTSjr: We’ve talked about conventional ground forces, but what about Iraqi special operations forces? Would you say they are comparable to our own commandos?

BOLGER: The Iraqi Special Operations Forces or ISOF have been well–trained by the American special ops folks and cooperate at times with their British analogs as well. As to their strengths and weaknesses, we’ll leave that to the imagination of those enemies unlucky enough to meet the ISOF. The Iraqi operators are very good—enough said.

WTSjr: What would you change in Iraq, or what do you hope will change in that country regarding our approach to winning the war?

BOLGER: I’m lucky enough to get the chance to be a small part of the creation of a free Iraq. The Iraqis have won already. They won the day we toppled Saddam. Now it’s just a matter of finishing the job as the Iraqis take ownership of their freedom. You can’t give freedom to people. They must want it enough to fight and die for it. The Iraqis want it enough.

WTSjr: So, you are personally convinced we will win this war?

BOLGER: We will win this war! We have the support of the vast majority of Iraqis and the vast majority of Americans and regular people everywhere who believe in freedom and don’t want to back down to terrorists.

This kind of war requires two things: popular support in Iraq and a long-term commitment by our country to Iraq’s future. I know we have the first and I believe our leaders and those of Iraq will ensure the second.

WTSjr: Does negative reporting in the American and British press adversely impact our efforts in Iraq? If so, how? [NOTE: In his book, “Americans at War 1975-1986: An Era of Violent Peace” (Presidio, 1988), Bolger writes, “The stories in the papers and on television did not always square with my own knowledge of the military and how it operates. ‘Media bias’ was not the problem; there was no ideological slant to most defense reporting. To be blunt, what seemed to be amiss was an articulate understanding of how armed forces actually work.”]

BOLGER: America and Great Britain enjoy freedom of the press. The Iraqis are learning about this great idea. The press has their role and I’ve got mine.

My job is to help the Iraqis fight and win this war. These days, there is no shortage of folks grading that effort. That is as it should be — I work for the American people, and they have every right to judge my service here. I’ll leave it to others to grade the work of the press.

WTSjr: Let’s talk about the morale of our own soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines; particularly those going out and conducting the most dangerous missions on the ground – raiding, patrolling, escorting convoys, etc. Is morale still high?

BOLGER: I’d say morale is good here and will stay that way as long as we keep making a difference. We know we’re on the winning side. Our men and women came here to make a difference, and they surely are doing that.

WTSjr: Yes, but is deployment–weariness creeping in? If morale is high, what is keeping it high?

BOLGER: We have a great mission, the one all of us put on a uniform to do. When our country was attacked on September 11, 2001, our people spoke through their elected representatives. They gave us the mission to defeat these terrorists and the countries that harbored them. That’s what we’re doing today in Iraq, and thank God we have about 27–million strong supporters by our side as we track down and finish off these ruthless Al Qaeda types and their local henchmen. We aren’t tired, or broken, or losing heart. We’re going all the way on this one.

WTSjr: How about the Iraqi people? I understand they are warming to our presence in their country. Any truth to that?

BOLGER: The Iraqi people know who liberated them. I have been personally thanked time after time, out in very poor rural villages and in the streets of Baghdad. Iraqis wave to us and talk to us while we are on foot patrol. The little children love the ‘high five.’

To me, the best thanks we’re all getting involves watching the Iraqis take charge of their own destiny. They are choosing freedom. They are fighting for it. They’re dying for it. They are not turning back.

WTSjr: What would American readers be surprised to learn that they don't already know?

BOLGER: That Iraq is not Arabic for Vietnam.

The model here is much more our experience in Korea than our efforts to defeat Communism in Vietnam. In Korea, we fought a tough war from 1950 to 1953 that continues—no easy or quick solution there. We had the support of the people of the Republic of Korea all the way. America made a long-term commitment with our 1954 mutual defense treaty, and we have stuck with it for decades, despite casualties, political crises, and outside threats.

Just as the people of the south never had any stomach for North Korean dictatorial Communism, so the folks here in Iraq have no interest in joining Al Qaeda’s fanatic, nihilist war against all things not Al Qaeda. As for Saddam’s Ba’athist die-hards, they are already fading into the woodwork of normal political discourse with each electoral cycle. The ebb of enemy power is tangible because they have turned on the very people they said they protected. Against this abyss of destruction, our side promises freedom, prosperity, and a future here. Something beats nothing every time.


W. Thomas Smith Jr. is a Townhall.com columnist.

Copyright © 2006 Townhall.com

lulldapull
02-07-2006, 01:15 PM
Jewish Terrorists? Do you have any idea what the IDF is packing? They have nukes, they have over 4000 AFV,14000 apcs, they have like 1800 Merkava tanks alone. They have tankers, Early warning aircraft, bombers, better fighters and better trained pilots then the United States overall. If the Jews were terrorists and had no problem killing civillians, or murdering people like some Arab Terrorists then do you think Israel would be having the trouble it has in Palestine? The Jews are bending over backwards to help the palestinians.

Since when is ousting Sadamn thug behavior? He gassed his own people, he gassed Iranians, he killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, his sons raped women at random, his secret police tortured untold thousands and yet we are the terrorists? We gave him chemical weapons, that was a mistake made by another administration, this one is fixing the mistake as best as it can.

Terrorsts arent even Muslims imho, because anybody that believes in god would not thrive on killing another human being made by god. How can God be a fan of racisim against Jews or Arabs or Whites, or Asians when he created them all ???

Finally here is the second part of an article about the Iraq war in the middle east that will hopefully give a perspective about the US military and what it thinks is going on. Its by a US general over there so even though Idon't think its propaganda its definately from a point of view of somebody that believes in what the United States is doing.
From the frontlines in Iraq -- Part II
By W. Thomas Smith, Jr.

Feb 6, 2006


In Part I of Townhall.com's exclusive two-part interview with Brigadier General Daniel P. Bolger, commander of the Coalition Military Assistance Training Team in Iraq, we covered a variety of topics as they relate to the standing-up of the new Iraqi Army. Among those were Iraqi soldier motivations (Why do they fight?), Iraqi Army strengths and weaknesses, and problems associated with training Iraqi soldiers.

Bolger also explained why Iraq is not devolving into ‘civil war’ – as some have suggested – in the purest definition of the term. Additionally, he says, the recent bloody infighting between domestic insurgents and foreign-led “Al Qaeda in Iraq” (also known as “Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia”) is a real opportunity for the new Iraqi government.

In Part II, Bolger discusses the so-called “Arab mind,” Iraqi perceptions of soldierly virtues, U.S. troop morale, what Americans back home might be surprised to know, and why the U.S. and its allies will ultimately defeat the insurgency in Iraq.

WTSjr: Westerners often talk about “the Arab mind” and how it is different than the Western mind. In that sense, is their perception of the soldierly virtues – things like courage and honor – different from our own? And would you elaborate on Iraqi perceptions of courage and honor.

BOLGER: I do not subscribe to an Arab mind or ‘an Oriental mind’ – with apologies to the late General of the Army Douglas MacArthur – or anything like that. The daily lesson I get is that Iraqis are individuals. Sure, they have cultural views based on their upbringing. Who doesn’t?

In Iraq, years of isolation and repression have made a lot of people here especially insular, magnifying this region’s tendency to value strong extended family ties. When you can’t trust the government – Ottomans, British mandate, Ba’athist socialists, and then the ultimate Ba’athist dictator, Saddam – you go with whom you can trust. People here rely on the family, writ large, sometimes called “tribes” in recognition of their size: thousands of relatives claiming kinship.

What has impressed me is how willing most Iraqis seem to be to look at other points of view. For so long, they got one way – Saddam’s way – shoved down their throats. I have seen a genuine interest in other ways, and it is not unusual to find your conversation with an Iraqi private, sergeant, or captain drift into all kinds of areas. Things like: Do Americans believe in God? What is success in private business? What is federalism in America? Why do Americans care about Iraqis? Do Americans have weapons in their homes? Why don’t Americans seem to like soccer? These are reasonable questions, as are many others. The fact that they get asked, tells me that the minds here are very much open to new possibilities.

In terms of courage and honor, those are esteemed traits in Iraq, and especially in the military. Iraq’s soldiers have a good reputation in Iraqi society for the right reason. They put their lives on the line to protect the people. Of course, without skill, discipline, and leadership, courage does not get much done. Units fight well not because every soldier in each unit is fearless, but because the strength of the teamwork allows a multiplier effect to those who are brave.

As far as honor, this is very important to any Iraqi in uniform. An Iraqi who makes a promise, will carry it out, even in the face of death.

Iraqi commanders consider it their duty to look after their U.S. or coalition advisors – Australians, British, Danes, Italians, Koreans, Poles, among others who also serve in this role. In all of this fighting, we have never had a military advisor captured. We have never had one betrayed. And though we have suffered advisors wounded and killed, every one came home, often at cost to our Iraqi partners who saw to that. That is Iraqi military honor at work.

WTSjr: We’ve talked about conventional ground forces, but what about Iraqi special operations forces? Would you say they are comparable to our own commandos?

BOLGER: The Iraqi Special Operations Forces or ISOF have been well–trained by the American special ops folks and cooperate at times with their British analogs as well. As to their strengths and weaknesses, we’ll leave that to the imagination of those enemies unlucky enough to meet the ISOF. The Iraqi operators are very good—enough said.

WTSjr: What would you change in Iraq, or what do you hope will change in that country regarding our approach to winning the war?

BOLGER: I’m lucky enough to get the chance to be a small part of the creation of a free Iraq. The Iraqis have won already. They won the day we toppled Saddam. Now it’s just a matter of finishing the job as the Iraqis take ownership of their freedom. You can’t give freedom to people. They must want it enough to fight and die for it. The Iraqis want it enough.

WTSjr: So, you are personally convinced we will win this war?

BOLGER: We will win this war! We have the support of the vast majority of Iraqis and the vast majority of Americans and regular people everywhere who believe in freedom and don’t want to back down to terrorists.

This kind of war requires two things: popular support in Iraq and a long-term commitment by our country to Iraq’s future. I know we have the first and I believe our leaders and those of Iraq will ensure the second.

WTSjr: Does negative reporting in the American and British press adversely impact our efforts in Iraq? If so, how? [NOTE: In his book, “Americans at War 1975-1986: An Era of Violent Peace” (Presidio, 1988), Bolger writes, “The stories in the papers and on television did not always square with my own knowledge of the military and how it operates. ‘Media bias’ was not the problem; there was no ideological slant to most defense reporting. To be blunt, what seemed to be amiss was an articulate understanding of how armed forces actually work.”]

BOLGER: America and Great Britain enjoy freedom of the press. The Iraqis are learning about this great idea. The press has their role and I’ve got mine.

My job is to help the Iraqis fight and win this war. These days, there is no shortage of folks grading that effort. That is as it should be — I work for the American people, and they have every right to judge my service here. I’ll leave it to others to grade the work of the press.

WTSjr: Let’s talk about the morale of our own soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines; particularly those going out and conducting the most dangerous missions on the ground – raiding, patrolling, escorting convoys, etc. Is morale still high?

BOLGER: I’d say morale is good here and will stay that way as long as we keep making a difference. We know we’re on the winning side. Our men and women came here to make a difference, and they surely are doing that.

WTSjr: Yes, but is deployment–weariness creeping in? If morale is high, what is keeping it high?

BOLGER: We have a great mission, the one all of us put on a uniform to do. When our country was attacked on September 11, 2001, our people spoke through their elected representatives. They gave us the mission to defeat these terrorists and the countries that harbored them. That’s what we’re doing today in Iraq, and thank God we have about 27–million strong supporters by our side as we track down and finish off these ruthless Al Qaeda types and their local henchmen. We aren’t tired, or broken, or losing heart. We’re going all the way on this one.

WTSjr: How about the Iraqi people? I understand they are warming to our presence in their country. Any truth to that?

BOLGER: The Iraqi people know who liberated them. I have been personally thanked time after time, out in very poor rural villages and in the streets of Baghdad. Iraqis wave to us and talk to us while we are on foot patrol. The little children love the ‘high five.’

To me, the best thanks we’re all getting involves watching the Iraqis take charge of their own destiny. They are choosing freedom. They are fighting for it. They’re dying for it. They are not turning back.

WTSjr: What would American readers be surprised to learn that they don't already know?

BOLGER: That Iraq is not Arabic for Vietnam.

The model here is much more our experience in Korea than our efforts to defeat Communism in Vietnam. In Korea, we fought a tough war from 1950 to 1953 that continues—no easy or quick solution there. We had the support of the people of the Republic of Korea all the way. America made a long-term commitment with our 1954 mutual defense treaty, and we have stuck with it for decades, despite casualties, political crises, and outside threats.

Just as the people of the south never had any stomach for North Korean dictatorial Communism, so the folks here in Iraq have no interest in joining Al Qaeda’s fanatic, nihilist war against all things not Al Qaeda. As for Saddam’s Ba’athist die-hards, they are already fading into the woodwork of normal political discourse with each electoral cycle. The ebb of enemy power is tangible because they have turned on the very people they said they protected. Against this abyss of destruction, our side promises freedom, prosperity, and a future here. Something beats nothing every time.


W. Thomas Smith Jr. is a Townhall.com columnist.

Copyright © 2006 Townhall.com


Brad, snap out of it. The IDF is a joke in front of the U.S. military.:rolleyes:

Without U.S. support, and the $3 billion we give these jewish thugs every year to exist, and the billions more that flow in from all over the world, that artificial country would collapse. An artificial/ illegal country built on the guilt of European racism and prejudice and genocide has no right to exist. Ahmad Nejad is right, when he mentioned that indirectly, even though he never said those exact words. These jews should go back to Eastern Europe where they are really from. Sooner or later it will happen, as the A-raabs would not tolerate this. I'd like to see how welcoming those european countries will be to these ilegal immigrant jews when they are eventually expelled....:rolleyes:

Hoosier34
02-07-2006, 01:28 PM
Jews did not originate in Eastern Europe....They were where they are now as long as anybody else. Ever hear of King Solomon? Or David?? Ever here of Judea??

Israel wouldnt need billions in economic aid if its Arab neighbors would get off there high horse and quit using them as an excuse to control there own people thru dictatorship type governments :) When Iraq is finally stable and free, and its economy is booming and its trading with Israel and Jordan, and Lebanon and Eygpt, other nations in the area will hopefully see it works and they will get in on it and you will finally have peace. People on this forum are all acting like Iran is the next target of America, its simple not true. The Iranians would be a pwerhouse in the region if they would drop the pointless anti semetic stuff and just allow the jews who btw lost over 6 million people in the hollocaust to have a country that they had thousands of years ago in the same exact place!

I am telling you guys, you quit all this stupid racial war to the death, hate speech stuff and you could all worship in peace wherever you wanted in the middle east and all the nations there would be prosperous. That region would be an economic powerhouse even without oil if they would just get along :)

I think are army has better thinigs to do then babysit the middle east. We need to take care of business in Korea, Keep china out of Taiwan, ect.

FWIW the number one enemy of the United States in the middle east imho is Syria, they dont need to be conqured but they are definatley in need of regime change,that crap they pulled in Lebanon, and the way they are helping suicide bombers in Israel is a disgrace. Syria needs to put itself in check or prepare for a serious beat down :)

Cya
Brad

lulldapull
02-07-2006, 02:07 PM
Jews did not originate in Eastern Europe....They were where they are now as long as anybody else. Ever hear of King Solomon? Or David?? Ever here of Judea??

Israel wouldnt need billions in economic aid if its Arab neighbors would get off there high horse and quit using them as an excuse to control there own people thru dictatorship type governments :) When Iraq is finally stable and free, and its economy is booming and its trading with Israel and Jordan, and Lebanon and Eygpt, other nations in the area will hopefully see it works and they will get in on it and you will finally have peace. People on this forum are all acting like Iran is the next target of America, its simple not true. The Iranians would be a pwerhouse in the region if they would drop the pointless anti semetic stuff and just allow the jews who btw lost over 6 million people in the hollocaust to have a country that they had thousands of years ago in the same exact place!

I am telling you guys, you quit all this stupid racial war to the death, hate speech stuff and you could all worship in peace wherever you wanted in the middle east and all the nations there would be prosperous. That region would be an economic powerhouse even without oil if they would just get along :)

I think are army has better thinigs to do then babysit the middle east. We need to take care of business in Korea, Keep china out of Taiwan, ect.

FWIW the number one enemy of the United States in the middle east imho is Syria, they dont need to be conqured but they are definatley in need of regime change,that crap they pulled in Lebanon, and the way they are helping suicide bombers in Israel is a disgrace. Syria needs to put itself in check or prepare for a serious beat down :)

Cya
Brad

King David and Soloman lived in Judea 2000 years ago. The jews of Palestine are legitimate citizens of Palestine. The vast majority of 'Israelis' poured in from Europe after WWII. They were illegal immigrants.

And FYI, Rafiq Harriri was assasinated by the Mossad, to pressure Syria. ;)

Snauhi
02-07-2006, 02:33 PM
King David and Soloman lived in Judea 2000 years ago. The jews of Palestine are legitimate citizens of Palestine. The vast majority of 'Israelis' poured in from Europe after WWII. They were illegal immigrants.

And FYI, Rafiq Harriri was assasinated by the Mossad, to pressure Syria. ;)

OMG, not this conspiricy teori again, GIVE ME SOURCES PLS, if you make a statment back it up... Jews were there before the Palestinians..

lulldapull
02-07-2006, 02:50 PM
OMG, not this conspiricy teori again, GIVE ME SOURCES PLS, if you make a statment back it up... Jews were there before the Palestinians..

Yeah.....they were, but in small minority. The ship jumping illegal immigrants that started coming in from racist and Nazi europe??? You conveniently forgetting that ....Yeah??? Snauhi???:D :D

my standing opinion is that keep these Palestinian jews in palestine! The other illegal ones should be deported back to europe, as Ahmad Nejad says.

Snauhi
02-08-2006, 01:08 AM
Yeah.....they were, but in small minority. The ship jumping illegal immigrants that started coming in from racist and Nazi europe??? You conveniently forgetting that ....Yeah??? Snauhi???:D :D

my standing opinion is that keep these Palestinian jews in palestine! The other illegal ones should be deported back to europe, as Ahmad Nejad says.

And we should listen to him..... LOL. Deport us..

Highsky
02-08-2006, 07:11 AM
And we should listen to him..... LOL. Deport us..

you should not listen to anyone.but you must be realistic and read the real history whiches is not 4000 years ago but just 60 years ago.
Reallity hurts but what we can do?
If i was a german and my countery did what nazi's did against humanity, then was ik so shamefull but they are nt.
I mean we could nt do anything to change the reallity of history but our generation will be someday in history. we make the history of future.
so let make it good in the name of our nations so our nations in the future will be pride of us and what we made.
Poeple forget never what nazi's did, poeple forget never what Usa did, poeple forget never what saddam and the rest did.so try to be the pride of next generation then the shame. :)