If a war starts between Albania and Serbia, who will win? [Archive] - Page 2

Germania

10-18-2007, 09:18 AM

The two most talked about competitors are F-16 and Saab Gripen multirole jets. In case Croatia buys F-16s, they will probably be second-hand (Block 50/52) with the aim of getting new F-35 Lightning sometimes after 2018/2020[citation needed]. In case the decision falls on the Gripen, they will be newly built C/D or E/F samples if they enter production by this time. The final numbers vary from 12 to 15 aircraft. It has to be mentioned that MiG-35, Eurofighter and Dassault Mirage 2000 have not yet been officially rejected but are not likely to be selected. This is due to the fact that MiG-35 and Eurofighter are two engined aircraft which means they are expensive to operate, MiG is also of a Russian origin and thus not a favourable choice. New Mirages are not an option because production switched to Dassault Rafale although used ones might still have a chance. Furthermore, many analysts believe that if Croatian economy continues to grow, that the final number of new fighters may reach 2 squadrons or 24 units around 2020.

Germania

10-18-2007, 09:19 AM

wow if they get F-16 they might get F-35 lightning in 2020!! thats 12 years away!!!
btw they cost heaps!!

Mxm

10-18-2007, 09:21 AM

wow if they get F-16 they might get F-35 lightning in 2020!! thats 12 years away!!!
damn 12 years thats an long time bro but i truely hope you guys will get them :biggrin1: we still dont know what tanks Albania will buy :(

Germania

10-18-2007, 09:32 AM

not really time passes really fast.

Mxm

10-18-2007, 09:36 AM

hmm 12 years seems an long time but i guess your right it will pass very fast

Relikt

10-18-2007, 05:24 PM

Many BS on this thread I must say. Post some links when you talk about new weapons please.

P.S. JAS-39 isnt some excellent plane. It is cheap for maintain and it is its best attribute.

Gon4z

10-18-2007, 07:31 PM

nah no way Serbia mig 29 can match the f16i never unless it 5 mig vs 1 f16 maybe then they would win

They could bro, the MIG-29 is a very good jet but it depends on which variant of course if you put a Mig-29B against a F-16C then the F-16 is more likely to win but if you but a Mig-29S against a F-16A then the Mig is more likely to win, it also depends of the pilots...etc it isn't that straight forward.

Gon4z

10-18-2007, 07:35 PM

P.S. JAS-39 isnt some excellent plane. It is cheap for maintain and it is its best attribute.

A JAS-39 costs around $50 million per unit and now lets consider what the engines training equipement and other maintaining costs are...etc its very expensive I find it funny how it says in wikipeida taht Serbia is paling to buy 20 of them..... hehehhe thats way over $1 billion your budged wont ever cover that purchase not in the next 20 years.

Germania

10-18-2007, 07:47 PM

Many BS on this thread I must say. Post some links when you talk about new weapons please.

P.S. JAS-39 isnt some excellent plane. It is cheap for maintain and it is its best attribute.

lol you are so jealous. Gripen is so much better than mig 29.

Gon4z

10-18-2007, 10:08 PM

lol you are so jealous. Gripen is so much better than mig 29.

I wouldn't say that the MIG-29 is a very good jet yes the Grippen is better than Serbia's Mig-29S, bit gripens can never be compared to MiG-29SMT which is an outstanding jet, and lets not even mention the Mikoyan MiG-35, I would want Albania to rather get the latest Mig-29's than grippens.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Bottom_OLS.jpg
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Maks2005/Highlights/Mig29M2From230.jpg
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/visits2-pages/moscow_2005_files/day_04_36.jpg

LOOK at that cockpit fully digital not even the cockpit has that.
http://www.airpower.at/news07/0410_mig-35/front-cockpit.jpg
http://www.airpower.at/news07/0410_mig-35/rear-cockpit.jpg

mustavaris

10-19-2007, 12:39 AM

Gripen is good if you apperiate true multi-purpose aircraft which is easily concealed, can use basic roads as airfields and has decent weaponry and really modern avionics et al. And need a light aircraft, it is pretty much what the Iranians try to achieve with their light aircraft program(s).

The crappy thing in it is that it is tailored for a country like Sweden and sold by Sweden. It is perfect solution for Cold War era Sweden and if you buy them.. remember that if war starts you can never trust in Swedes to get a single spare part. Ask Danes if you want to hear stories about their customer services... sometimes they are worse than the Russians ever were.

Relikt

10-19-2007, 11:32 AM

lol you are so jealous. Gripen is so much better than mig 29.

You must be kidding. Look what Gon4z posted and think again.

Mxm

10-19-2007, 11:37 AM

You must be kidding. Look what Gon4z posted and think again.
yes the Grippen is better than Serbia's Mig-29S

then serbias mig 29s :wub2:

Mxm

10-19-2007, 11:38 AM

He said that he would like for Albania to get the latest migs but he did say the grippern is beter then serbias mig 29-s -_-

Gon4z

10-19-2007, 11:47 AM

You must be kidding. Look what Gon4z posted and think again.
Have to agree with you on this.... look at what I posted no way you can convince me to purchase a JAS-39 before a MiG-35.

yes the Grippen is better than Serbia's Mig-29S
then serbias mig 29s :wub2:
Yes but its not better than the MiG-29SMT or the MiG-29T2, or the MiG-29OVT and they are defiantly NOT better than the Mikoyan MiG-35 these are 4.5 generation fighters the latest.

He said that he would like for Albania to get the latest migs but he did say the grippern is beter then serbias mig 29-s -_-
Actually I did say that, the new Mig-29's are better than the grippern's....LoL

Mxm

10-19-2007, 11:56 AM

Have to agree with you on this.... look at what I posted no way you can convince me to purchase a JAS-39 before a MiG-35.

Yes but its not better than the MiG-29SMT or the MiG-29T2, or the MiG-29OVT and they are defiantly NOT better than the Mikoyan MiG-35 these are 4.5 generation fighters the latest.

Actually I did say that, the new Mig-29's are better than the grippern's....LoL

yes but it depends on the aircombat if you put 10 grippens against 4 mig 29s i would say the grippens would win and Croatia i thought would buy 20 of them so if you look at the total picture Croatias grippens are beter then the mig 29s

Mxm

10-19-2007, 11:57 AM

lets face it bro 4 mig 29s arent that much :X

mustavaris

10-19-2007, 01:18 PM

If you got 4 aircraft and you need to patrol and do training and such.. you are lucky to have 2..3 ready in a sudden emergency. With 10 you may count on 5 or little bit more..

That´s why many consider that two squadrons is a minimum deterrence. Then you can always have ready squadron and can afford to lose a few aircraft.

Bumble Bee

10-19-2007, 01:24 PM

nah no way Serbia mig 29 can match the f16i never unless it 5 mig vs 1 f16 maybe then they would winIn Polish or German dogfights the MiG-29 overwhelmingly defeated the US F-16s. You just are ignorant.

mustavaris

10-19-2007, 01:26 PM

In Polish or German dogfights the MiG-29 overwhelmingly defeated the US F-16s. You just are ignorant.

In dogfight before newer Sidewinders were introduced. Against AMRAAM armed opponent in BVR where most of the fights now happen,it is another story.

Gon4z

10-19-2007, 01:38 PM

yes but it depends on the aircombat if you put 10 grippens against 4 mig 29s i would say the grippens would win and Croatia i thought would buy 20 of them so if you look at the total picture Croatias grippens are beter then the mig 29s

Well better than Serbians Mig's, and not necessarily if the pilots of the Migs are very senior and highly trained and the Grippen are rookies than the Migs have a high chance of wining.

I spoke of this long time ago, Vietnam's best pilot flying a MiG-17F went up against 6x F-4 F-4E Phantom II and knocked down 4 of them and one run away and the last one sot him down, which shows that its not always the aircraft but the pilot as weal.

Gon4z

10-19-2007, 01:39 PM

lets face it bro 4 mig 29s arent that much :X
TRUE

If you got 4 aircraft and you need to patrol and do training and such.. you are lucky to have 2..3 ready in a sudden emergency. With 10 you may count on 5 or little bit more..
That´s why many consider that two squadrons is a minimum deterrence. Then you can always have ready squadron and can afford to lose a few aircraft.
YEAP any airfroce with less than 12 fighter jets is pretty useless.

In Polish or German dogfights the MiG-29 overwhelmingly defeated the US F-16s. You just are ignorant.
again it depends on the pilot, weapons & variant of the aircraft.

In dogfight before newer Sidewinders were introduced. Against AMRAAM armed opponent in BVR where most of the fights now happen,it is another story.
In the 21st century Dog fighting is a very rear thing. by the 70's dog fighting had died quiet a lot.

Mxm

10-19-2007, 01:42 PM

TRUE

YEAP any airfroce with less than 12 fighter jets is pretty useless.

again it depends on the pilot, weapons & variant of the aircraft.
yep very true i totally agree with you

Relikt

10-19-2007, 01:46 PM

TRUE

YEAP any airfroce with less than 12 fighter jets is pretty useless.

again it depends on the pilot, weapons & variant of the aircraft.

In the 21st century Dog fighting is a very rear thing. by the 70's dog fighting had died quiet a lot.

Good dog fighter is good missile evader. Also dog fight isnt dead. It all depend on tactic. You can launch your jets to pursuit retreating enemy jets in this case they can get behind enemy tail and then dog fight would start. Why Swiss have F-18 mostly armed with newest Sidewinders?
Because they are using catapult launch system and their tactics is to take enemy jets from tail. Fast go up and engage.
Dog fight is only dead in battles like NATO vs. Yugoslavia. If dog fight is dead F-22 wouldnt try to show everything what Su-30 can do.

Bumble Bee

10-19-2007, 02:29 PM

In dogfight before newer Sidewinders were introduced. Against AMRAAM armed opponent in BVR where most of the fights now happen,it is another story.The scores was unanymously in favor of the Fulcrum someone posted it was like 33-0! It's already on the forum. If Iran was smart they'd just license produce the MiG-33 which is an extended range MiG-29.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deG-e26SsvY
Mig-29 kick ***.
In dog fight it is beast.
Just surf on net and read about German Mig-29 pilots butchered US F-16 pilots in knife fight traning. I think score was 32:0 for Mig-29. Yanks left brefing room when they saw results of training because they belive that Germans are liers.
First versions sucks much in BVR (bad radar which turn off without any known reason, small fuel tanks, fuel hungry etc) but as machine it was great. My proffesor(ex Mig 21 pilot) said that Mig-29 is only plane in world capable to break sound barrier in vertical flight I dont know is this true (I am sure that Mig 29 is capable for that but maybe there is some other plane capable too and I am very sure that F-16 would fell apart if true to do that).

As I said Mig-29 suck in electronics. US planes are electronic state of art but as jet machines they are nothing special.
Modern Mig-29 have very good electronics.

And Mig-29 never fight agianst one plane. They always were over numbered by enemy and technologic far behind. Serbia had Mig-29B which is first Mig-29 and we had 12-14 migs. We fight against 1000 NATO air fleet many of NATO jets had last upgrade.
Same could say for Iraq 1991.
To me it is very funny to compare US hardware with others when they always go in war we they are sure they are much more superior. They hype their M1A2 as T-72 killers and they never say that M1A2 is 20 years younger tank.
And when some new Russian RPG kick *** of western tank design (Merkeva) then they try to hide that.
Also US joke about French jets but truth is that in Soviet Isreal air war over Syria Mirage kick Soviet mig-21 while Phantom II didnt.
Mustavaris is just Eurotrash that visits the forum to discredit what red people can do that his incompetent nations can't do. The US is in Europe to defend his race and the KSA, Iran, Turkey and Lebanon are self-secured. Everything he says is to inflame the forum.

doFLer

10-19-2007, 07:36 PM

Gon4z

10-19-2007, 08:18 PM

Nobody ever wins a war
That pretty naive.... LoL

the innocent people always end up paying....
TRUE but there is no such thing as a war without casualties, and in cases when one or both sides are savage animals the civilians end up paying.

mustavaris

10-20-2007, 12:32 AM

The scores was unanymously in favor of the Fulcrum someone posted it was like 33-0! It's already on the forum. If Iran was smart they'd just license produce the MiG-33 which is an extended range MiG-29.

Mustavaris is just Eurotrash that visits the forum to discredit what red people can do that his incompetent nations can't do. The US is in Europe to defend his race and the KSA, Iran, Turkey and Lebanon are self-secured. Everything he says is to inflame the forum.

Well, I know those incidents you mention very well. Actually I have read pretty throughout reports on them... in any case, it was not 33 against 0 "kills" they gained and there are few things which cast doubt on the report when talking about real war shooting war and the relevance of the results from those "engagements".

1# The fights were tailored to be only dogfighting, thus other tactics and means were neglected. No BVR was fought while in more modern engagements the figthing has almost always started, and in most cases ended within BVR envelope. Only significant VVR engagements with modern aircraft I remember off my head occured when the Ethiopian Su-27s and Eritrean MiG-29s flown by mercenaries fought.. and their R-27s failed thus R-73s were used.

2# The opponents of MiG-29s lacked: newer generation Sidewinders (with greater off-boresight capabilities) and helmet mounted sights (which was strong point of MiG-29). Both have been corrected by those who can afford to.

So the incidents tell nothing about the aircraft itself, but tell how essential in dogfight the far off-boresight weapons and helmet mounted sights are and how you are gonna be dead meat if you ain´t having them and the opponent has them while both can use their weapons properly.

-----------------
Tell me how my nation is incompetent, please try your best. I would also love to know how we are incompetent when comparing to "reds". I have never talked a bad word about American Indians here on IDF so I think you refer commies and their kin.. so come forth with your grand knowledge.

And how USA actually defends my race or my country? My race is well, a bit complicated thing (remember, I am not pure blooded Finn...) and last time I checked this country was militarily non-aligned and prepared to fight alone against any opponent. Esp. I would love to know how Lebanon is more self-secured and independent than my country.. in any case, I have no will to say that this country is some superwonderland and mightier than any, but I do know damn well, that those things we do, we tend to do damn well.

And thanks for the compliment.

Mxm

10-20-2007, 03:15 AM

Wow, this stupid topic has got up to 29 pages in responses.
I can tell you who will win if Albania and Serbia went to war - neither one.
They will both lose...

Nobody ever wins a war - the innocent people always end up paying....

Well yes you are right about that but common me and you know that if somebody will start an war it will be Serbia and then we must strike we have no choice

Relikt

10-20-2007, 07:06 AM

Well yes you are right about that but common me and you know that if somebody will start an war it will be Serbia and then we must strike we have no choice
Can you say how you think this war would start? And when?

Mxm

10-20-2007, 11:47 AM

Can you say how you think this war would start? And when?

It will start when Kosova gains indepence and i am pretty sure kar lazar will have something to do with it or paramilitary serbians that are stationd in nother mitrovica

Mxm

10-20-2007, 12:03 PM

Can you say how you think this war would start? And when?

well like i said in 2007 it might not be Serbian army but serbian militias against Uck aksh nla and so on but those militias will be armed by serbian army just like uck aksh and nla will be armed by Albanian army

Relikt

10-20-2007, 05:44 PM

well like i said in 2007 it might not be Serbian army but serbian militias against Uck aksh nla and so on but those militias will be armed by serbian army just like uck aksh and nla will be armed by Albanian army
So why you talk about F-16s and other stuff?

Gon4z

10-20-2007, 08:27 PM

It will start when Kosova gains indepence and i am pretty sure kar lazar will have something to do with it or paramilitary serbians that are stationd in nother mitrovica

KOSOVA is not getting independence.... forget that, th only way I see us getting it is declaring it unilaterally our selfs which will defiantly result in some sort of conflict, as for the UN giving it to us you can forget it both the British & EU have said that Kosova's independence will not be archived this year but the UN and urge the Kosovars not to take one sided steps.

Gon4z

10-20-2007, 08:28 PM

So why you talk about F-16s and other stuff?

:roflmao3:

doFLer

10-20-2007, 11:42 PM

Guys, go get some nintendos and computer war games to quench your thirst for war. Because in real life, it is a different story. Gon4z, you say my view that nobody wins a war is naive. Well, go ask the one million plus displaced and persecuted Kosova people if they would have rather been tormented of have peace instead. Its the people that suffer in the war, period. And those Serbian solders that got killed in the war had mothers too. Chances are they didnt go volunteer to fight, but were drafted to do so.
We Albanians (myself included) believe our cause is right. But we forget that Serbs may believe theirs is right too.
End result - WAR. Who wins?!?! you tell me.

I havent experienced it first hand but by what I read, I dont think any of you has experienced war first hand either.
And by first hand I mean being right there, in the midst of it, and not claiming you have been in a war because a distant cousin or even close relative happened to be there.

It seems the Balkans will never live in peace, ever....

It is funny becase here in the United States, being from the Balkans is a uniting factor. I see Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, MonteNegro folks, Romanians etc getting along fine. But once in the Balkans, totally different story, go figure....

Mxm

10-21-2007, 02:41 AM

So why you talk about F-16s and other stuff?

pff cause those stuff Albania is going to get and if nato does an louzy job in protection our peopel then Albania has to step in i dont know if you forgot but Albanians in Albania and Albanians in Kosova are the same togethere with the ones in Greece in Montenegro in Southern Serbia in MAcedonia and also in all other foreign countrys you are not stepping up only against the Albanians in Kosova but this time against all of us

Mxm

10-21-2007, 02:44 AM

Mxm

10-21-2007, 02:46 AM

doFLer

10-21-2007, 10:56 PM

... and what do you expect if the serbs killed their fathers brothers raped their mothers and sisters and you expect us to forgive them while those same peopel are threating us they will again go into Kosova and what do you think they will do ? pff next time before you writte think cause you havent seen anything it doesnt mean others has and no WE WILL NEVER FORGIVR THEM EVER

You took my words out of context, I am not saying forgive and forget the attrocities by any means. All I am wishing my people is that they have seen the last war, and that nothing like that will happen again. My point was and I repeat it again that the regular people are the ones that suffer.

Should the history repeat itself, then by all means we have the right and will defend ourselves.

The problem I have is that I sense from some of the posts that certain people almost wish war - well, thats the category I was referring to that have not experienced war and dont exactly know what it means.
Seeing war from TV like most of us (myself included) and living it are two very different things

Shamshire...

10-22-2007, 12:58 AM

Mxm

10-22-2007, 11:58 AM

this is stupid why would you think about such a conflict when it is not on the horizion and outworldly irresponsible to start such a conflict if it happens by the people who want this conflict and yes I know it is only hypothetical question so dont tail me about it

well cause when Kosova becomes independt the serbs in nother want the same things and we all know that place is full with serbian paramilitary so some shooting will start Ana allready said the will enter nother mitrovica and well you know what will happen Serbia will prob pull in with their army and so will Albania

the albanians in Macedonia would also want independce so another war will break out there the serbs in Bosnia would want indepencde and would take up arms to do so so voila another war the albanians in greece have enghouf with the greeks tortuering them and prob another war there btw there are 2 mill albanians in greece the albanians in souther serbia want independce so they will take up their arms especially cause the whole balkkans in allready in flames and what do you get

all out war in Serbia-Montengro-Kosova-Macedonia-Greece-Albania

Relikt

10-22-2007, 02:50 PM

well cause when Kosova becomes independt the serbs in nother want the same things and we all know that place is full with serbian paramilitary so some shooting will start Ana allready said the will enter nother mitrovica and well you know what will happen Serbia will prob pull in with their army and so will Albania

the albanians in Macedonia would also want independce so another war will break out there the serbs in Bosnia would want indepencde and would take up arms to do so so voila another war the albanians in greece have enghouf with the greeks tortuering them and prob another war there btw there are 2 mill albanians in greece the albanians in souther serbia want independce so they will take up their arms especially cause the whole balkkans in allready in flames and what do you get

all out war in Serbia-Montengro-Kosova-Macedonia-Greece-Albania
What is wrong with you?
I know propaganda. Here in Serbia no one is talking about war. But you and Gon4z hear that there are some paramilitary group called "Holy tzar Lazar Guard" and you use that as excuse for ANA? Dude HTLG never was pictured with rifles, in fact they dont have nothing. Those dudes are only ready to go in war is Serbia called them.
But ANA is acting on its own. So if ANA fire first they they will be guilty for war.
War in Bosnia between Serbs and Muslims didnt start by Serbs but by Muslims. They fire first bullets and they didnt had any reason.
And no Serbs in Bosnia arent so stupid to open second front.
Also Macedonia is under western protection same with Greece so if you guys start some s*it there you will lost any western support. I know that Albanians have many smart and capable politicians so you will not start three wars at once.

P.S. Albanian rifles are killing Turk solders. Some sold your weapons to Kurds. Turkey is pissed off. There is even official denial on Albanian ministry of defence. But fact is Albanian AK are killing Turks.

Gon4z

10-22-2007, 03:24 PM

P.S. Albanian rifles are killing Turk solders. Some sold your weapons to Kurds. Turkey is pissed off. There is even official denial on Albanian ministry of defence. But fact is Albanian AK are killing Turks.

Duno about selling to the KURDS, but a shipment of ARMS heading for Georgia was turned back by turkey, Turkey claimed it was for ARMENIA whilst Russia & some EU states claimed its for CHECHNYA, but Albanians are claiming it was for Georgia and Georgia is not saying anything, very hairy situation, Albania assured Azerbajan it was not for Armenia But who know with all the crouped A$$ holes in governmetn they sell to every side there is.
Can you please provide a link about your claim that we are selling to KURDS id like to read more.

Relikt

10-22-2007, 03:36 PM

Duno about selling to the KURDS, but a shipment of ARMS heading for Georgia was turned back by turkey, Turkey claimed it was for ARMENIA whilst Russia & some EU states claimed its for CHECHNYA, but Albanians are claiming it was for Georgia and Georgia is not saying anything, very hairy situation, Albania assured Azerbajan it was not for Armenia But who know with all the crouped A$$ holes in governmetn they sell to every side there is.
Can you please provide a link about your claim that we are selling to KURDS id like to read more.
article “Albania, weapons for Kurd rebels” published in Gazeta Shqiptare on September 10, 2007

And here is reaction of Albanian DoD, which dont explain situation just saying that there are good relations with Turkey DoD.
http://www.mod.gov.al/index.php?crd=0,0,0,0,0,1,Lng2

P.S. Well in countries like Albania or Serbia this kind of things is expected.

Gon4z

10-22-2007, 03:50 PM

article “Albania, weapons for Kurd rebels” published in Gazeta Shqiptare on September 10, 2007

And here is reaction of Albanian DoD, which dont explain situation just saying that there are good relations with Turkey DoD.
http://www.mod.gov.al/index.php?crd=0,0,0,0,0,1,Lng2
Thanx

P.S. Well in countries like Albania or Serbia this kind of things is expected.
TRUE

mustavaris

10-23-2007, 05:19 AM

BB,,, I am awaiting for your answer: ....

Mxm

10-23-2007, 12:31 PM

What is wrong with you?
I know propaganda. Here in Serbia no one is talking about war. But you and Gon4z hear that there are some paramilitary group called "Holy tzar Lazar Guard" and you use that as excuse for ANA? Dude HTLG never was pictured with rifles, in fact they dont have nothing. Those dudes are only ready to go in war is Serbia called them.
But ANA is acting on its own. So if ANA fire first they they will be guilty for war.
War in Bosnia between Serbs and Muslims didnt start by Serbs but by Muslims. They fire first bullets and they didnt had any reason.
And no Serbs in Bosnia arent so stupid to open second front.
Also Macedonia is under western protection same with Greece so if you guys start some s*it there you will lost any western support. I know that Albanians have many smart and capable politicians so you will not start three wars at once.

P.S. Albanian rifles are killing Turk solders. Some sold your weapons to Kurds. Turkey is pissed off. There is even official denial on Albanian ministry of defence. But fact is Albanian AK are killing Turks.

Dont you worry cause serbs are stupid enghouf to open an second front in Bosnia and if you guys wont the bosnians would do so why >>? cause you guys are busy enghouf with albanians Macedonia under western protection yea right U.s doesnt give an **** about Macedonia and do you rlly think Nato would do anything rofl think again nato is full of pussys and they wouldnt jeperdize their soldiers and send them to an full out balkan war

Relikt

10-23-2007, 01:30 PM

Dont you worry cause serbs are stupid enghouf to open an second front in Bosnia and if you guys wont the bosnians would do so why >>? cause you guys are busy enghouf with albanians Macedonia under western protection yea right U.s doesnt give an **** about Macedonia and do you rlly think Nato would do anything rofl think again nato is full of pussys and they wouldnt jeperdize their soldiers and send them to an full out balkan war
They will send air support. I think that hundred of A-10 and Ah-64 would blasted UCK in Macedonia without any problem. O I almost forgot AC-130 gunshiphttp://www.carneysoil.com/images/ac130.jpg
This bird would make your terrors to s*** in their pants. It was most fear thing between Talibans in A-stan and those dudes are hard to scare. Operate fr om altitude little higher that MANPADs and delivering fire storm.

So as you see they dont need to send troopers in FYROM.

P.S. Just two Mi-24 in FYROM create big problems to ANA. Dont forget that.

mustavaris

10-23-2007, 02:03 PM

Mxm

10-23-2007, 02:49 PM

And if the Makedonians are drawn in the war.. do not forget their big brothers, the Bulgarians I do not think that they would stay idle of Macedonia were being overrun (which is very unlikely though).
Bulgaria doesnt care about Macedonia or Fyrom well call it whatever you want and dont worry Greece has still some big troubles with Macedonia and Bulgaria joining in an war :roflmao3: for Macedonia :roflmao3: hehe you guys are funny where was Bulgaria in 2001 when 5000 ana kicked their armies ***

Mxm

10-23-2007, 02:54 PM

They will send air support. I think that hundred of A-10 and Ah-64 would blasted UCK in Macedonia without any problem. O I almost forgot AC-130 gunshiphttp://www.carneysoil.com/images/ac130.jpg
This bird would make your terrors to s*** in their pants. It was most fear thing between Talibans in A-stan and those dudes are hard to scare. Operate fr om altitude little higher that MANPADs and delivering fire storm.

So as you see they dont need to send troopers in FYROM.

P.S. Just two Mi-24 in FYROM create big problems to ANA. Dont forget that.

1 thing i dont give an **** about taliban capish so dont bring that stuff here alright the only thing albanians care about is an Ethnic Albania and other albanians

Mxm

10-23-2007, 02:55 PM

And wtf do you think that we are crazy to fight Nato pff you stupid kid think again the only ones we will fight are you cetniks serbs

Mxm

10-23-2007, 03:00 PM

Mxm

10-23-2007, 03:02 PM

And relikt all of the Albanians i know love U.s and i also love U.s a lot they where the only ones that helped us against you savages

mustavaris

10-23-2007, 11:41 PM

Bulgaria doesnt care about Macedonia or Fyrom well call it whatever you want and dont worry Greece has still some big troubles with Macedonia and Bulgaria joining in an war :roflmao3: for Macedonia :roflmao3: hehe you guys are funny where was Bulgaria in 2001 when 5000 ana kicked their armies ***

Bulgaria and Greece are EU members, if they are drawn into conflict which they did not start...

And when ANA did what they did, many sent arms to Macedonia. Never thought though that they kicked the butts of the Macedonian military....

It is weird that Serbia would not be able to handle a multi-front war while you seem to think that the Albanians would turn out as winners if they went into conflict with Serbia, Macedonia and Greece...

Relikt

10-24-2007, 08:29 AM

1 thing i dont give an **** about taliban capish so dont bring that stuff here alright the only thing albanians care about is an Ethnic Albania and other albanians
I said that AC-130 break taliban fighters moral. So if USA use them in protection of Macedonia your ANA cant do nothing.

Relikt

10-24-2007, 08:31 AM

And wtf do you think that we are crazy to fight Nato pff you stupid kid think again the only ones we will fight are you cetniks serbs
Attacking one member of NATO is same as attacking NATO. So I wish that your terrorists attack Greece and get butchered.

Relikt

10-24-2007, 08:33 AM

I said that AC-130 break taliban fighters moral. So if USA use them in protection of Macedonia your ANA cant do nothing.
Well they still hope that USA will back them in those three wars. Well maybe democrats would but republicans never. And without USA support they dont have balls to nothing.

Relikt

10-24-2007, 08:45 AM

and 1 thing Relikt you saw against who nato was preparing to go to war to so they are backing us up when Kosova gets independce in 2 months or even less you guys wouldnt dare to do **** about it unless you want your beloved belgrade to be bombed to the dust again wich we albanains dont mind
We will see. As I said best thing for Albanians is to cool down. But reading your posts I see that you cant cool down. So if you start three wars(macedonia, Greece, Serbia) bye bye great Albania.

Mxm

10-24-2007, 09:22 AM

Mxm

10-24-2007, 09:25 AM

We will see. As I said best thing for Albanians is to cool down. But reading your posts I see that you cant cool down. So if you start three wars(macedonia, Greece, Serbia) bye bye great Albania.

if we start 2 wars with Macedonia and Serbia hello Greater Albania then we will boost our Economy and when we are ready bye bye Greece 2 million Albanians in greece can destoy it from the inside out and besides we got nothing to lose its not the greeks will treat us even worse cause they allready doing that and when the greece economy is on its knees we will move in

Mxm

10-24-2007, 09:28 AM

Bulgaria and Greece are EU members, if they are drawn into conflict which they did not start...

And when ANA did what they did, many sent arms to Macedonia. Never thought though that they kicked the butts of the Macedonian military....

It is weird that Serbia would not be able to handle a multi-front war while you seem to think that the Albanians would turn out as winners if they went into conflict with Serbia, Macedonia and Greece...

Macedonia isnt an eu member and we wil take over macedonia not all of it only the parts that belong to Albania and 1 more thing Greeks arent to fund of Macedonia so they will keep their mouth shut Bulgaria can only bark like an dog and thats it maybe some mercenaris from their side ok many sent arms to Macedonia but sitll MAcedonia lost to an couple of civillians wtih ak47s lolololo so thats show how tough their army is beside 33% if not more of macedonias army are Albanians 1 of the 3 most important Generlas of Macedonia is Ablbanian

Mxm

10-24-2007, 09:38 AM

Well they still hope that USA will back them in those three wars. Well maybe democrats would but republicans never. And without USA support they dont have balls to nothing.
We have enghouf balls to fight for our land and our peopel dont you worry about balls when such an big war starts do you think nato or russia would do something about it hell NO

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 11:07 AM

If Albanians start the war, the world will forget what happened during the 1990s.... The one starts the next round, will lose big time. You´ll have my word on that;)

Mxm

10-24-2007, 11:16 AM

If Albanians start the war, the world will forget what happened during the 1990s.... The one starts the next round, will lose big time. You´ll have my word on that;) Dont you worry we are only waiting for serbians to make the first move and then voila goodbye Macedonia goodbye Serbia Hello Greater Albania

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 11:18 AM

Dont you worry we are only waiting for serbians to make the first move and then voila goodbye Macedonia goodbye Serbia Hello Greater Albania

I got a question: when was the last time when a country took part of another country in Europe and that got accepted..?

Mxm

10-24-2007, 11:29 AM

I got a question: when was the last time when a country took part of another country in Europe and that got accepted..?
8 years ago but serbians are stupid and started ethnic cleaning if they didnt do that they still would of had Kosova and did somebody care about the other yu wars Eu doesnt give an **** only America did

Mxm

10-24-2007, 11:44 AM

I got a question: when was the last time when a country took part of another country in Europe and that got accepted..?

And i got an question for you when did Eu give an **** about this kind of things without U.s ??? they dont even care let alone going to war :roflmao3:

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 11:48 AM

8 years ago but...

What? Care to elaborate.

Mxm

10-24-2007, 11:54 AM

What? Care to elaborate.
you didnt answer mine question did you heh i rest mine case

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:01 PM

What? Care to elaborate.
why should i eleborate history its allready done i dont have nothing to plan when i am talking to you -_- cause in the end you and i know i am right eu doesnt give an ****

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 12:04 PM

And i got an question for you when did Eu give an **** about this kind of things without U.s ??? they dont even care let alone going to war :roflmao3:

We got surprised with our pants at knees in case of Yugoslavia... but what happened (or actually, did not happen) in Czechosslovakia and Makedonia?

And there is no need to go to open war.. if EU backs one side, that side will be supplied by the others with our backing, be it Turkey, Bulgaria, Greece or whatever.. we have money and stuff..even though we may not be interested in direct participation

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 12:05 PM

why should i eleborate history its allready done i dont have nothing to plan when i am talking to you -_- cause in the end you and i know i am right eu doesnt give an ****

Well, did you lie?

What happened 8 years ago?

What country took a part of another and got away with that?

Tell me!

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:09 PM

We got surprised with our pants at knees in case of Yugoslavia... but what happened (or actually, did not happen) in Czechosslovakia and Makedonia?

And there is no need to go to open war.. if EU backs one side, that side will be supplied by the others with our backing, be it Turkey, Bulgaria, Greece or whatever.. we have money and stuff..even though we may not be interested in direct participation

oh you guys had your pants at your knees for 9 years till all of the wars where finished with U.s help wich saved houndred of thousands of peopel lifes if it was for eu not an single Albanian would be in Kosova this days i am not saying its needed for an war even macedonians them selfs are seeing thats it beter to split up Macedonia 1 part to Bulgaria 1 to Albania or Kosova well doesnt matter we are 1 anyways you guys dont care you will sell weapons to anyone that got the cash and thats just how life is i dont blame you guys for it tough its an cold hard world

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:13 PM

Well, did you lie?

What happened 8 years ago?

What country took a part of another and got away with that?

Tell me!

Greece got an part of Albania Serbia got an part of Albania and who stopped that it was America that stopped them 8 years ago oh nothing happent it woman got killed children got killed serbs tried to kill an entire race but nothing interesting for eu cause since the first days they where backing up serbs but we know we shouldnt trust you guys the only think why some of the countries of eu are backing us up is cause of America and i allways will be greatfull to america for that

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:17 PM

But anyways i have enghouf of this i am also happy that eu is helping us now even tough we cant trust them

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 12:22 PM

oh you guys had your pants at your knees for 9 years till all of the wars where finished with U.s help wich saved houndred of thousands of peopel lifes if it was for eu not an single Albanian would be in Kosova this days i am not saying its needed for an war even macedonians them selfs are seeing thats it beter to split up Macedonia 1 part to Bulgaria 1 to Albania or Kosova well doesnt matter we are 1 anyways you guys dont care you will sell weapons to anyone that got the cash and thats just how life is i dont blame you guys for it tough its an cold hard world

Krhm.

What happened in Kosovo in mid 1990s was not considered to be more than internal issue as Serbia was needed to safeguard the peace in Bosnia. But the things turned nasty and the killings did not stop.

And did you realize that it was not the Americans alone who acted? Yes, they were the main player - and thats why EU has been creating rapid deployment forces and force projection capabilities.

And it was mainly European pressure (economical & political) which in the end finished Milosevic.

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 12:24 PM

Greece got an part of Albania Serbia got an part of Albania t

8 years ago? You said so.

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:25 PM

Krhm.

What happened in Kosovo in mid 1990s was not considered to be more than internal issue as Serbia was needed to safeguard the peace in Bosnia. But the things turned nasty and the killings did not stop.

And did you realize that it was not the Americans alone who acted? Yes, they were the main player - and thats why EU has been creating rapid deployment forces and force projection capabilities.

And it was mainly European pressure (economical & political) which in the end finished Milosevic.

ehm i dont know where you heard this stuff but its ******** America did all of the work Bill Clinton did all of the work E.u couldnt care less yes when America told them then they reacted but without America they wouldnt give an ****

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:26 PM

8 years ago? You said so.

i was talking then about Kosova -_-

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 12:27 PM

But anyways i have enghouf of this i am also happy that eu is helping us now even tough we cant trust them

You´ll eat from our hands and come knocking on our doors...

But hey, in the end we will end up building a mutually beneficial relationship. Unless you screw the things big time.

It seems, if your words can be taken as generalization, that we cannot trust that you want peace in Europe... sorry to say this, and I am not presenting this to wider audience as I know that the grand majority has far more positive view.

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:27 PM

Mustaveris its clearly we wont agree on this so its useless to go on with this discussion

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:30 PM

You´ll eat from our hands and come knocking on our doors...

But hey, in the end we will end up building a mutually beneficial relationship. Unless you screw the things big time.

It seems, if your words can be taken as generalization, that we cannot trust that you want peace in Europe... sorry to say this, and I am not presenting this to wider audience as I know that the grand majority has far more positive view. When ?? how many times do i have to say E.u doesnt care get that in your mind if it wasnt for America all of the Albanians in Kosova would be dead or living somewhere else get that in your mind in your head What should we screw ?? by starting another war ?? if U.s isnt going to do anything do you think E.u will act on his own >?> not in an million years its the trueth there wont be peace in Europe or Balkans as long as we wont have our lands back wich they toke by war and wich the only thing we will get them back is by war

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 12:51 PM

there wont be peace in Europe or Balkans as long as we wont have our lands back wich they toke by war and wich the only thing we will get them back is by war

Start it and lose it.

The Americans saved you, yes, but they won´t then help you.

Time will tell...

Mxm

10-24-2007, 12:55 PM

Start it and lose it.

The Americans saved you, yes, but they won´t then help you.

Time will tell...

And how do you know America wont help us ?? heh explain it to me how do you know what the interest of America are ?? if you dont know this things then you have no right to talk about this stuff

and yes time will tell ;)

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 12:58 PM

And how do you know America wont help us ?? heh explain it to me how do you know what the interest of America are ?? if you dont know this things then you have no right to talk about this stuff

They are not interested of being dragged into yet another conflict. They won´t interfere anymore, they are busy elsewhere. This is the truth if the Albanian side starts the war. But if the other side starts it, and makes it to spill over different countries, then it is sure that the Albanian side will get a lot of cheap/free weapons and US trainers will stay there.

They have no damned reasons to save your butt if you are to be blamed for the conflict.

Mxm

10-24-2007, 01:01 PM

They are not interested of being dragged into yet another conflict. They won´t interfere anymore, they are busy elsewhere. This is the truth if the Albanian side starts the war. But if the other side starts it, and makes it to spill over different countries, then it is sure that the Albanian side will get a lot of cheap/free weapons and US trainers will stay there.

They have no damned reasons to save your butt if you are to be blamed for the conflict.

Well maybe if we got some good reason to start it they will help us dont you think that and you saw that aritcel i posted wich says Nato got some roles for Albania and Croatia if another war starts with serbia wich will prob start in 2 months if Serbia tries something

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 01:03 PM

Well maybe if we got some good reason to start it they will help us dont you think that and you saw that aritcel i posted wich says Nato got some roles for Albania and Croatia if another war starts with serbia wich will prob start in 2 months if Serbia tries something

Yes, if the Serbs screw things, it is very natural for NATO to give certain responsibilites for Albania and Croatia to take care of. Both want to join NATO and integrate to west, and have no reasons to play nice with the Serbs if there is need for rude attitude. But the basic point is that the side which steps over the line, will be the one who loses the sympathy.

Relikt

10-24-2007, 01:49 PM

And how do you know America wont help us ?? heh explain it to me how do you know what the interest of America are ?? if you dont know this things then you have no right to talk about this stuff

and yes time will tell ;)
If conflict start it will be low level nothing similar with 1999. We learn our mistakes.

Your story of new balkan war is BS.

And what more want Albanians in Macedonia? They get all rights they wanted. In fact they are important part of politician life there.

P.S. Even if Great Albania be created Albanians will still leave it and go to EU to work. So why the f*** you need it?

Grutte Pier

10-24-2007, 01:53 PM

Serbia would win, I think. Who else?

mustavaris

10-24-2007, 01:56 PM

Serbia would win, I think. Who else?

On what you base your point of view?

Mxm

10-25-2007, 09:36 AM

If conflict start it will be low level nothing similar with 1999. We learn our mistakes.

Your story of new balkan war is BS.

And what more want Albanians in Macedonia? They get all rights they wanted. In fact they are important part of politician life there.

P.S. Even if Great Albania be created Albanians will still leave it and go to EU to work. So why the f*** you need it?

ehm ehm maybe because its our land stoko :worried2: and when we have an ethnic albania the economy will be beter so why leaving to work in eu :laugh4:

Mxm

10-25-2007, 09:37 AM

Serbia would win, I think. Who else?ehm whatever lol do you guys still want an independent Friesland :roflmao3::roflmao3:

Mxm

10-25-2007, 09:38 AM

On what you base your point of view?
He bases that on his stupidety lol

Mxm

10-25-2007, 10:13 AM

24 October 2007 | 18:00 | FOCUS News Agency

Skopje. Two Macedonian policemen were killed Wednesday in an incident in the Macedonian village of Tanusevci, Albanian sources told Focus News Agency.
One policeman was injured.
Near the village, which is on the border with Kosovo, a group opened fire against the policemen’s car. According to the Macedonian media the group has most probably come from the region of Presevo, southern Serbia.
The Macedonian Makfax and MIA agencies announced three policemen were injured in the incident, while the A1 television channel informed that one policeman died and another two were wounded.

like i said before things arent going very good between Albanians and Macedonians

mustavaris

10-25-2007, 01:05 PM

like i said before things arent going very good between Albanians and Macedonians

Albanians seem to be a needing a good spanking yet another time. D´oh.

But.. seriously speaking, yet another criminal group.. nothing serious unless these are very common incidents.

Mxm

10-25-2007, 11:47 PM

The Macedonian constitutional court of government has passed a law that forbids the Albanian flag from flying in everyday life or political institutions, the Albanian flag will no longer be an official flag of Macedonia as the Macedonian one is, this has raised very high tensions among th Albanians of Macedonia and neighboring countries like Kosova & Albania condemning the Macedonian government for pass this law, this is a direct violation foe the OHRID agreement which was signed by both Albanians & Macedonians which stopped the war in 2001, a one year conflict that Albanains fought and won for equal rights as the Macedonians since they make up over 30% of the countries, making it a very large minority, the Macedonian constitutional court is expected to pass another law in the near future which will forbid the use of Albanian language in government e.i. parliament and even forbidding schools from teaching Albanian.
This is causing extrema tensions among Albanians, and has led to the Albanian government in warning the Macedonians that they are heading for another 2001, also most of the Albanian citizens in are asking the question "HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN 2001?" which has gotten many Macedonian officials feeling uneasy and uncomfortable, about the current situation.

It is speculated that the current events have a lot to do with the recent ambush over dozen Macedonian border guards, near the border with Kosova, where 3 Macedonian police died and several others were injured, the people responsible are though to have crossed over from Kosova and carried out the attack and then crossed back, no one has claimed responsibility for the attack, and no one has been linked with it or arrested.

Mxm

10-25-2007, 11:48 PM

Albanians seem to be a needing a good spanking yet another time. D´oh.

But.. seriously speaking, yet another criminal group.. nothing serious unless these are very common incidents.

the ones that got an asswhoping are the macedonians wich they will get again read that news i just posted you see they are asking for it and they will get it

Mxm

10-26-2007, 12:01 AM

mustavaris

10-26-2007, 03:37 AM

lol Macedonia like they havent got enghouf problems with greeks but now also with albanians this time no more agreements but we want 50% of Macedonia wich allways belongs to us you see macedonians are digging their own grave

We´ll see... we´ll see.

The jury is out.

And EU is still interested about what happens in the neighbourhood, and this sounds like a normal criminal activity to me.

eastman

10-26-2007, 03:46 AM

Albania suffers from so called "poor country syndrome", when inability to cope with internal problems like poverty, mafia, corruption, economic failures are reshaped into quasi-nationalism that claims that by creating "greater" country (irredentism) those problems will dissapear. There are many analogies to this Mexico claims Southern US, Swaziland - a part of South Africa, Morocco - Spanish Andalusia + Ceuta and Melilla and many more.

Gon4z

10-26-2007, 03:57 AM

eastman

10-26-2007, 04:06 AM

Mxm

10-26-2007, 08:32 AM

Many other? Elaborate.

pff go look it up somewhere :tired1_24:

eastman

10-26-2007, 10:10 AM

pff go look it up somewhere :tired1_24:

Your answer is the best elaboration for me :biggrin1:

Mxm

10-26-2007, 10:32 AM

Your answer is the best elaboration for me :biggrin1: you have internet do you >? you know how to read english you know how to use google so go look it up it isnt that hard or is it maybe for you :huh2:

eastman

10-26-2007, 11:21 AM

you have internet do you >? you know how to read english you know how to use google so go look it up it isnt that hard or is it maybe for you :huh2:

No i do not have internet and i cannot read in English :tired1_24:

Mxm

10-26-2007, 01:58 PM

No i do not have internet and i cannot read in English :tired1_24:

Well then i cant help you have an good night :laugh4:

eastman

10-26-2007, 02:41 PM

Well then i cant help you have an good night :laugh4:

Good night :laugh4:

Apolonia2, his request..

10-27-2007, 04:55 PM

Albanians seem to be a needing a good spanking yet another time. D´oh.

But.. seriously speaking, yet another criminal group.. nothing serious unless these are very common incidents.

What are you talking about? AKSH defeated the Macedonian military badly. AKSH is not a professional army,but a guerilla force that numbers at most 10,000 fighters. Macedonian Military numbered almost 25,000 in 2001. AKSH fights for their rights and they are fueled by their pursuit of freedom. This incident happened because we are still not enjoying full rights in Macedonia or any other place in the Balkans(except Albania). So really, what spanking are you talking about?

Relikt

10-28-2007, 06:15 PM

Albania has better living standards and better corruption history than Serbia.:smile1: and many otehr Balkans & eastern European countries, you are thinking of Albania in 1992.
Yes you have better corruption history (DRUG TRAFFIC).

I supposed you wanted to say "low corruption level". Even if you have lower corruption then Serbia you are still much far from EU standards so it is not something to be proud. Bulgaria and Romania get in EU with bigger corruption level then Serbia so what?

About living standard well it could discuss. But "2006 GDP per capita" you are lower then Serbia. But I dont think we need to be proud on both countries living standards are low. So eastman was right. When people are poor you can sold them any politics and blame others for troubles. I am witness of that we had that during Milosevic rule.

Relikt

10-28-2007, 06:20 PM

you have internet do you >? you know how to read english you know how to use google so go look it up it isnt that hard or is it maybe for you :huh2:
I google and saw that GDP per capita for Serbia is higher then for Albania it is data for 2006 and it is *** data. And I am not so proud as Gon4z because Serbian living standard isnt something to be proud off. Same thing we could say for Albanian living standard.

Relikt

10-28-2007, 06:32 PM

Those killings in Macedonia are criminal or better to say terroristic attacks.
So they said no to Albanian flag on political institutions?
And ANA killed couple policemen for that? Stupid and primitive.

Try to put Mexican flag on political institutions in California or Florida and look reaction of police.

Relikt

10-28-2007, 06:37 PM

What are you talking about? AKSH defeated the Macedonian military badly. AKSH is not a professional army,but a guerilla force that numbers at most 10,000 fighters. Macedonian Military numbered almost 25,000 in 2001. AKSH fights for their rights and they are fueled by their pursuit of freedom. This incident happened because we are still not enjoying full rights in Macedonia or any other place in the Balkans(except Albania). So really, what spanking are you talking about?
What Albanians didnt get in Macedonia?
You can use your language as official, you are part of politician life (and could became very important if you pull right moves) you have generals.
O yes you cant put your flag on political institutions. You cant do that no where in world.

P.S. And dont use Bosnia as excuse as Gon4z does. Bosnia isnt state it is have foreign governor.

Apolonia2, his request..

10-28-2007, 08:55 PM

The Macedonian constitutional court of government has passed a law that forbids the Albanian flag from flying in everyday life this is a direct violation foe the OHRID agreement the Macedonian constitutional court is expected to pass another law in the near future which will forbid the use of Albanian language in government e.i. parliament and even forbidding schools from teaching Albanian.
[B]It is speculated that the current events have a lot to do with the recent ambush over dozen Macedonian border guards, near the border with Kosova, where 3 Macedonian police died and several others were injured, the people responsible are though to have crossed over from Kosova and carried out the attack and then crossed back, no one has claimed responsibility for the attack, and no one has been linked with it or arrested.
Relikt read this^^^
What Albanians didnt get in Macedonia?
You can use your language as official, you are part of politician life (and could became very important if you pull right moves) you have generals.
O yes you cant put your flag on political institutions. You cant do that no where in world.

I do not support the actions of what happened in Macedonia. The people who did it should be arrested immediatly. This law not only prohibits the flag being used in political institutions,it prohibits the use of the flag anywhere, They signed an agreement. I do not know if that source is legit,if it isn't then i dont know,but based on what I see here, this a violation of that agreement.

[/quote]P.S. And dont use Bosnia as excuse as Gon4z does. Bosnia isnt state it is have foreign governor.[/quote]
I never said anything about that.........

Relikt

10-29-2007, 02:37 AM

Relikt read this^^^

I do not support the actions of what happened in Macedonia. The people who did it should be arrested immediatly. This law not only prohibits the flag being used in political institutions,it prohibits the use of the flag anywhere, They signed an agreement. I do not know if that source is legit,if it isn't then i dont know,but based on what I see here, this a violation of that agreement.

Well that is problem then. If they dont allow using flag in private. What I do in my yard is my thing.

Mxm

10-29-2007, 12:27 PM

hmm by the looks of this Macedonia or Fyrom or whatever is going to get an nice asskicking :)

eastman

10-29-2007, 01:52 PM

I'd like to ask Mxm whether there are for example Macedonian flags "flying in everyday life" in Albania :biggrin1:

This "flag issue" is very seriuos despite it looks quite innocent thing. I doubt that turks would be willing to see Kurdish flags in Kurdish areas (i think it's forbidden and your arse will be kicked if would dare to challenge this law :biggrin1:), the same in Central Romania and Southern Slovakia where while i was travelling i had never seen Hungarian flags, just many Romanian and Slovakian flags in those areas.

Relikt

10-30-2007, 03:48 AM

so does Australia and so what ? I personally would prefer U.S governer there rather then E.U but anything is better then nothing :)

actually more I think about it, more I beleive it should be forever - since your "country" is extremely dangerous neighbourhood.

Regarding flags, you actually in many countries have flags of nations in political institutions. just simple minded people find it bad.
Even in what you call "not-a-country" Bosnia you have triple flags belonging to three nations, and so what ?

in my opinion it is OK thing.

( by the way, state of Bosnia NOT-A-STATE is influenced by Serbian extremists from Belgrade wanting to create greater serbia or Yugoslavia which is same thing )
Please can you give me example where you can put flag of other state on government building?
We had similar problem in south Serbia because Albanians put flag of Albania on township building in Presevo for example. Flag represent state. If Serbs in Bosnia took flag of Serbia as flag of Republica Srpska they will get penalty for international governor.

Ha. Great Serbia sink as Titanic years ago.
When I said Bosnia isnt state is because Bosnian politicians(Croats, Bosnjaks, Serbs) cant do nothing without asking governor.
I think that Bosnia need to be modified as USA. It would solved all problems.

Gon4z

10-30-2007, 08:55 AM

dud this thread is dead seriously why are we still discussing this pointless thread.

Relikt

10-30-2007, 08:58 AM

dud this thread is dead seriously why are we still discussing this pointless thread.
Yes. We mixed Macedonia, Bosnia and Croatia in this thread.

Mxm

10-30-2007, 12:04 PM

BornB4

11-07-2007, 04:15 PM

The Sertbs have been proven tough. Albania couldn't even defend the Albanians from Milosevic. Of course! The Serbs would win. They shot down a U.S. B-2 in 1995.

Gon4z

11-07-2007, 04:40 PM

The Sertbs have been proven tough. Albania couldn't even defend the Albanians from Milosevic. Of course! The Serbs would win. They shot down a U.S. B-2 in 1995.

YES serbs ahve beenproven so tough that they lost every single war they started or were involved in every single.
Albania was Yugoslavias 2nd biggest threat though the 20th century, shooting down an aircraft doesn't mean you will win you MORRON, Serbs lost KOSHAR to a few hundred Albanias and they were over 1,000 strong with heavy weapon military hard ware and even air support and they still lost, soon as Albanians in Kosova turned into the ofanisve NATO "coincidentally" intervened just like in BOSNIA when Bosniaks surrounded the last strong hold of R.S. Banjaluka.
you need to read and lean more about war and the Serb history, just face it this thread if an ideal place for flaming its just **** CRAP i suggest they close it.

BornB4

11-07-2007, 05:07 PM

The idea of Albanians winning against the Serbs without an alliance is foolish.

Gon4z

11-07-2007, 07:58 PM

The idea of Albanians winning against the Serbs without an alliance is foolish.

Well your thinking is foolish because you clearly know nothing.
Albanian military is even to Serbs we don't have an Air force but we have one of t best air defenses in Balkans excluding Greece, so we can knock down serbian tin cans out of the sky (go tot eh Albanian military thread and learn), and we are much braver, the fighting will be done in Kosova and south Serbia, which means Serbia will never ever reach the border of Albania and let alone go inside, even if they come inside which will never happen they will get slaughter their tanks will useless in our terrain and unknown territory to them.

but the fact is Albania will never go into a direct war with Serbia and neither will Serbia with Albania, Serbs will fight the Albanians of Kosova and Albanians of Kosova along with the Bosniaks of Sagjak will slaughter Serbs and we can even open a front in Bosnia.

Akinci-Raider

11-08-2007, 05:52 PM

The idea of Albanians winning against the Serbs without an alliance is foolish.Just like rusnyan-serbian aliance...Albanians would win,you know why?Cuse they are fighting to defend their homeland.....When u defend your ''house''u will do anything to protect it...and im sure that serbs will do the same to protect belgrade....after all Albanians theyre not fighting ''expansionist''war but defensive war to protect them from serbian agression.....

mustavaris

11-09-2007, 03:28 AM

The Sertbs have been proven tough. Albania couldn't even defend the Albanians from Milosevic. Of course! The Serbs would win. They shot down a U.S. B-2 in 1995.

What is this nonsense about a B2 having been shot down?

And anyway, which war was won by downing a single aircraft?

Gon4z

11-09-2007, 07:11 AM

What is this nonsense about a B2 having been shot down?

And anyway, which war was won by downing a single aircraft?

OMG i missed that part..... hahahahhahahahahhahahehehhehehehehehhuhuhuhuuh
how stupid is this guy B-2 hahhahahahhaha:laugh4::roflmao3:

From which movie was this because as far as I know only broken arrow has a downed B-2 in it and Serbs or Serbia is 6,000 miles away, they they couldent be a cast in this movie.

I heard they shot down a F-22 as well in 1995...:rolleyes2:

Mxm

11-09-2007, 07:15 AM

lol i heard they saying they won the war -_-

BornB4

11-09-2007, 06:34 PM

Serbia would destroy Albania. Albania couldn't even defend themselves from the Kosovars.

Apolonia2, his request..

11-09-2007, 07:50 PM

Serbia would destroy Albania

awww is someone getting a little cranky? http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/c/c7/Crazyfatkid.gif(that is Bornb4 by the way^^)

Serbia could destroy Albania? HAHAHH!!! We have support of NATO and US incase Albania proper gets into war. The only likely war is between UCK and Serbia. Albania will give artillery support plus sniper support if you guys get even near our border(which I doubt because almost every Kosova-Albanian has at least 100 weapons........)Our army now is almost fully modernized with G-36,new vehicles, MLRS artillery and we will soon get the L-159(which means air support too) 2010 we can take anyone except Greece.

Albania couldn't even defend themselves from the Kosovars.

What are you talking about? We are brothers. We helped Kosova.
http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/c/c7/Crazyfatkid.gif

Please stop crying dude,I'll give you more cake I promise!!!!!!!!Just don't eat me!!!!!!!!!

Gon4z

11-09-2007, 08:29 PM

Serbia would destroy Albania. Albania couldn't even defend themselves from the Kosovars.

hahahah man your a retard

there is BornB4 \/\/\/\/\/
http://www.movv.com/prvupload/uploads/super_retard_stfu.jpg

Gon4z

11-09-2007, 08:31 PM

awww is someone getting a little cranky? http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/c/c7/Crazyfatkid.gif(that is Bornb4 by the way^^)

Serbia could destroy Albania? HAHAHH!!! We have support of NATO and US incase Albania proper gets into war. The only likely war is between UCK and Serbia. Albania will give artillery support plus sniper support if you guys get even near our border(which I doubt because almost every Kosova-Albanian has at least 100 weapons........)Our army now is almost fully modernized with G-36,new vehicles, MLRS artillery and we will soon get the L-159(which means air support too) 2010 we can take anyone except Greece.

What are you talking about? We are brothers. We helped Kosova.
http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/c/c7/Crazyfatkid.gif

Please stop crying dude,I'll give you more cake I promise!!!!!!!!Just don't eat me!
AHHAHAHAHAHEHHEHEHEHEHHEHHUUHUHUHGAGAGAGAGAGGA

be careful dud he might eat you and the cake.

mustavaris

11-10-2007, 02:00 AM

Beware thats gona happen to you serbs.....

Wasn´t it the Serbs who first talked about bringing in the meat and asking Milosevic to bring salad... d´oh. Lot´s of stupid posts, now also in this thread..

Mxm

11-10-2007, 08:06 AM

Serbs are done if they start another war they will get screwd much harder then they got by the other wars wich they lost lool all of their wars haha they never won 1

Relikt

11-10-2007, 09:45 AM

OMG i missed that part..... hahahahhahahahahhahahehehhehehehehehhuhuhuhuuh
how stupid is this guy B-2 hahhahahahhaha:laugh4::roflmao3:

From which movie was this because as far as I know only broken arrow has a downed B-2 in it and Serbs or Serbia is 6,000 miles away, they they couldent be a cast in this movie.

I heard they shot down a F-22 as well in 1995...:rolleyes2:
Well you are wrong. In "Broken Arrow" bomber is B-3 (what ever it meant) and it is smaller then B-2. So it seems that B-2 is still untouchable bomber.

I hear for three places where B-2 crash. All three are in different states. So it is simple propaganda. Same as NATO saying they downed 90% of our air force. Even Mig-29 (which have biggest % of loss) didnt reach 90%. Today we still have 6 (one is total unusable because of cannibalism) so we had 60 Mig-29 by NATO. This was NATO propaganda during bombing. When it end they start to talk about about real numbers. We heard story about B-2 during bombing but even then many didnt believe in that.

P.S. It is same SF as Iraq down F-117(and it seems not one but more) in Gulf War.

Relikt

11-10-2007, 10:11 AM

Well your thinking is foolish because you clearly know nothing.
Albanian military is even to Serbs we don't have an Air force but we have one of t best air defenses in Balkans excluding Greece, so we can knock down serbian tin cans out of the sky (go tot eh Albanian military thread and learn), and we are much braver, the fighting will be done in Kosova and south Serbia, which means Serbia will never ever reach the border of Albania and let alone go inside, even if they come inside which will never happen they will get slaughter their tanks will useless in our terrain and unknown territory to them.

but the fact is Albania will never go into a direct war with Serbia and neither will Serbia with Albania, Serbs will fight the Albanians of Kosova and Albanians of Kosova along with the Bosniaks of Sagjak will slaughter Serbs and we can even open a front in Bosnia.
We already consider Albanian AA. It is total failure concept. And there is really logical reason for that. First you were ally of USSR then of China. China was behind in AA tech so when Yugoslavia get SA-3 and SA-6 you were still stuck with SA-2.

If we go in some hypothetical war in 1998 I really dont see what danger for our air force could be Albanian AA if we fly higher then 5km. Question is: Who Serbian air force will be efficient from higher altitude . Well I am sure it would knock bridges without problem and stop any bigger army colon. But in direct support I really dont know.
But as I remember we werent allow to use air force even over Kosovo. It was one of US demands.
Ask paratrooper did US air force support Bosnian offensive in 1995. Did US jam Serbian communication. Did US train and prepare Croats for operation "Storm". Also JNA was capable in first and second year of war in Croatia to siege Zagreb but Milosevic said no. Why?
Because Germany pressure USA and then USA pressure Milosevic. So USA was most important party in Balkan madness.

TimTirana

08-18-2010, 03:37 AM

I have to say that when serbs think and talk about Albanians they refer only to Kosovar Albanians..For some reason they dont see that there are over 10MILLION Albanians living in Albania,Kosova,Monte-negro,Fyrom, and Greece..
Serbians forget that the ''Albanian Republic''and ''Albanian Army'' did NOT get involved in Kosova war..
It looks like serbs got used into ''pushing Kosovars around'' and ''LOOKING DOWN'' on them for the last 90years bcoz Albanian Kosovars 'NEVER' had any support from ''ANY'' other country..
The way i see it if 'war' started between the two countries,(I honestly hope NOT) Very soon it will be ''THE END'' of serbia..
It takes ''WARRIORS'' TO WIN WARS..
And serbia unfortunately has Only ''WAR CRIMINALS''...
As for better weapons,'First'... Albania is NATO Member..
'Second'.. Albania has Over 750.000 Bunkers,where ''ALL'' serbian tanks wont count for Nothing... and i dont belive that after what happend in 1977 in Albania there is a ''single'' albanian house-hold that havent got at least an AK47, with a heap of ammunition..( My self included)
ps..
If serbia is foolish enough to even think of invading Albania, IT WOULD BE ''NO MORE Serbia''.........

lastsamurai

08-18-2010, 03:44 AM

ps..
If serbia is foolish enough to even think of invading Albania

What?? They won't even dare to think that..nor they have power to "invade" us.LOL. An attack to an NATO member,US ally and UN member will make serbia to go back to the stone age.

Albania will become the graveyard of serbs.They will die all here.

Albania had an PLAN B from 1995-1998 to declare war to serbia,we asked turkey for help and they were ready to supply us with weapons and even with soldiers but NATO stopped all.If Albania enters in war..whole Balkan will be in fire and ww3 will start.

lastsamurai

08-18-2010, 03:48 AM

Look at the serbs running.LOL

7k_FC2HD-aI

400 monkeys violated republic of Albania's border...tanks out...half of serbs were found dead ,other half ..run.

gisse

08-18-2010, 05:20 AM

Look at the serbs running.LOL

7k_FC2HD-aI

400 monkeys violated republic of Albania's border...tanks out...half of serbs were found dead ,other half ..run.

:roflmao3:

Source: BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/354979.stm)

It was training of 10 Albanian tanks near border.

Albanian military reinforcement

Amid the increasing tension, the Albanian army has stepped up its presence in the area.

Ten tanks were engaged in live firing exercises just four miles from the border this morning, while other Albanian tanks have taken up positions on the main road.

So far though the Albanians have not become involved in the conflict.

Nato planes, however, have been continuing to bomb Serbian positions just inside Kosovo.

lastsamurai

08-18-2010, 05:33 AM

lastsamurai

08-18-2010, 05:33 AM

Double post.

gisse

08-18-2010, 05:52 AM

Gisse,u can believe whatever u want,even BBC in serbian.But,when 400 serbian soldiers violated Albanian territory,The first division in Kukës with 3000 soldiers and 60 tanks attacked serbian positions on Albanian territory.The serbs point was to block the main road in which Albania was supplying weapons to Kosovo.After we started the attack,in 4 ours half of the serb soldiers were found dead ,the other part of the soldiers left toward Kosovo.

The registration on that video was never shown before.Both parts/Albanian and Serbian/deny the fights at the border.Albanian MOD even denied the Albanian army trainings right at the border since 1995.

How is possible that not a single major news station during war didn't report about that? That would be greatest sensation? Only report is about Koshare and about training.

Think about that. 400 solders is not a small thing. It would be shown world wide for sure.

It is not logical.

Same as 60 downed NATO airplanes in Serbia.

lastsamurai

08-18-2010, 06:04 AM

How is possible that not a single major news station during war didn't report about that? That would be greatest sensation? Only report is about Koshare and about training.

Think about that. 400 solders is not a small thing. It would be shown world wide for sure.

How its started:Habitants of one village in the district of Bajram Curri noticed the serbian army presence in our territory.Firstly,local population and also the local police took the weapons to protect their village from serbs,later our army enter in action."According to the villagers the serb soldiers are 300 metres away from our village,they have entered in our territory and are well armed.The serbs were shelling inside in Albanian territory".This is not fake.

ZmVJVpPPM7E

Same as 60 downed NATO airplanes in Serbia.

The story of the fallen B-2 is great.:D

lastsamurai

08-18-2010, 06:17 AM

How is possible that not a single major news station during war didn't report about that? That would be greatest sensation? Only report is about Koshare and about training.

Well,like i said above the confrontation of both armies were denied by both sides..due to international reaction..even that Milosevic wanted Albania to enter in the war..so he could hide better the "Horseshoe" plan.The reports were done by Albanian media and also some Italian newspapers wrote about the "incident".(That's how they were calling it).May the number of the soldiers have being a bit overrated,but the confrontation is true.

As far as i know ..Albanian army partecipated in Koshare battle.

lastsamurai

08-18-2010, 06:18 AM

Anyway..this thread is BS.This war will never happen.

gisse

08-18-2010, 07:32 AM

Anyway..this thread is BS.This war will never happen.

:wub3:

Correct.

I personally love that video with that "mailman" or what he is with gun shooting at "sniper".

Balija

08-26-2010, 12:44 PM

Serbia is much stronger then Kosovo and Albania together.

lastsamurai

08-27-2010, 03:44 AM

lastsamurai

08-27-2010, 03:46 AM

:wub3:

Correct.

I personally love that video with that "mailman" or what he is with gun shooting at "sniper".

Yes.They were locals ..lol.

I love the last seconds of the video when one of Albanian army officer yell "zjarr" which mean "fire".

gisse

08-27-2010, 04:01 AM

Balija,i dont think so.KLA it self was strong enough for serbian army and let's not talk for intervention of Albania.In the future Kosova will have one of the strongest army in the region as its vital for them.Serbia will have no chance to violate even an cm of our lands.

May i remind u that Albanian soldiers with NATO are having the experience and professionalism that serb soldiers will never have.And also our army equipment will be fully western instead of russian crap that equipes serbian army which make us superior.

Was JNA superior than Croatia during war?Yes,it was.In 4 years Croatia build an strong army and destroyed serbia.

If you don't remember to remind you :p

KLA was destroyed in 30 days during 1998 by Serbian Army. During 1999 and NATO bombardment KLA didn't have any significant role except attacks from Albania in role of "cannon food" for NATO.

For strong Army you need strong economy.

To have good equipment you need to buy it or to produce it. For both you need money. Albania and Kosovo don't have money to buy some spectacular equipment. Serbia also don't have money to buy but at least can produce something on its own.

About professionalism of Serbian solders we can talk a lot. For example Swedish Army field medics coming to Serbia to get trained by Serbian Army field medics. Other example is obvious: Serbian Army survived fight with NATO. Even NATO commanders sad that Serbian Army is highly professional.

How many Albanian solders have contact with anything what is connected with NATO? Special force which go to Afganistan and pilots which go to Turkey to fly on F-16 which is not even in Albanian arsenal and it is under big question will it be ever.

JNA was disassembled during 1992 and some of equipment was retreated to Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Macedonia. Croatian army is not strong army. They simply have support from outside. And Croatia never got in war with Serbia.

lastsamurai

08-27-2010, 04:34 AM

If you don't remember to remind you :p

KLA was destroyed in 30 days during 1998 by Serbian Army. During 1999 and NATO bombardment KLA didn't have any significant role except attacks from Albania in role of "cannon food" for NATO.

That's what serbia was saying all the time but reality was different.KLA had a lot success against serbian army and the damages done was heavily.

For strong Army you need strong economy.

We are ahead of serbia in this point.Our economy is growing with 6% every year.
"Strong army" always comparing to the region.

About professionalism of Serbian solders we can talk a lot.

lol.Serbs were brave to fight against republics who never had armies before.If u count YUGO war as experience..then u'r wrong.

Serbian Army survived fight with NATO.

LOL.

Even NATO commanders sad that Serbian Army is highly professional.

What else can u hear from them after turning serbia into its knees?.:lol3:

How many Albanian solders have contact with anything what is connected with NATO? Special force which go to Afganistan and pilots which go to Turkey to fly on F-16 which is not even in Albanian arsenal and it is under big question will it be ever.

What do u mean with "contact"?Our partnership wth NATO started 15 years ago and our soldiers are trained by Turkish,American and German army.

Croatian army is not strong army.

Croatian army of today is better equipped than serbian army.

They simply have support from outside.

Like serbia had.Germany was the onliest friend of Croatia in europe..most of the countries refused to fulfill croatia with weapons..only Germany helped them.What about serbia?You had russia all the time.Serbia had the support that any other country in the Balkans never had.

And Croatia never got in war with Serbia.

None said directly.Claiming that Croatia was fighting against rebels is not logical,serbia was always behind.Where did Krajina found all that military hardware?In Kosovo were rebels too..but KLA never had those weapons.

gisse

08-27-2010, 05:58 AM

That's what serbia was saying all the time but reality was different.KLA had a lot success against serbian army and the damages done was heavily.

Why then KLA commanders claimed that KLA was destroyed in 1998? Or you maybe know better then them?

We are ahead of serbia in this point.Our economy is growing with 6% every year.
"Strong army" always comparing to the region.

When did you last time checked GPD? Grooving from 10$ per citizen to 10.6$ is also 6% By your counting you are even better then USA with only 3%.

If you don't believe to me you can check at CIA fact book. Or at National Bank of Albania and Serbia.

lol.Serbs were brave to fight against republics who never had armies before.If u count YUGO war as experience..then u'r wrong.

YUGO war is good experience for lot of things. How to fight against gerila war, how to fight gerilla war, field medicine...

What else can u hear from them after turning serbia into its knees?.:lol3:

Serbs are one of rear nations to who even enemies where building monuments. That is not for sure because they didn't respect or thought that our army is not professional.

What do u mean with "contact"?Our partnership wth NATO started 15 years ago and our soldiers are trained by Turkish,American and German army.

Having contacts and having something useful from that is two different thing. Today Serbia have "contacts" with Ohio Guard but that was nothing until they didn't start to send officers to Serbian Military Academy to study in Serbia. On other hand Serbian officers where going to Ohio to theirs Military Academy.

Only solders which are involved in Afghanistan missions are trained by foreign instructors.

Croatian army of today is better equipped than serbian army.

With what? Which part of Croatian Army, air force, infantry? Oh yes, their navy is better equipped then Serbian navy :p

Like serbia had.Germany was the onliest friend of Croatia in europe..most of the countries refused to fulfill croatia with weapons..only Germany helped them.What about serbia?You had russia all the time.Serbia had the support that any other country in the Balkans never had.

How Russia supported Serbia with weapon? Can you tell me one thing which Serbia got from Russia?

None said directly.Claiming that Croatia was fighting against rebels is not logical,serbia was always behind.Where did Krajina found all that military hardware?In Kosovo were rebels too..but KLA never had those weapons.

Yes, Croatia was fighting with rebels. If Serbia was behind there wouldn't be 1994 and operation "Storm". Serbs in Croatia didn't have some great equipment, Serbs in Bosnia did have.

This is good tread. We can argue as much as we like. :)

TimTirana

08-31-2010, 08:51 PM

:hellobaby3:
I honestly dont understand, why a lot of serbian people talk and act with pride about serbian army or serbian economy or even serbian politics policy???
When the Truth is so clear...
What is it to be so proud??
Serbs show up in the Balkans about 1200years ago...They setlle in Someone elses land, they fight between each other to form their ''kingdom'' they borrow Greeks fathe, When Ottoman invasion started they made a "Pact' with turks, their ''king'' gave his daughter in spouse to the Turk Pasha son...
Finaly they decide to confront the ottoman army in Kosova Valley, ''and they LOOSE''
Than they collaborate with turks not letting Gjergj Kastrioti 'Victorious Army' to join with Hungarian ''Huniad'' army, makeing Huniad loose and Turks rule the balkans for over 500years...
In the mean time the Turks ''feasted'' in serbia..TAKEING SERBIAN WOMEN FOR THEIR ''HAREM's'' and serbian kids for their army...
In serbia it was 'Punished by serbian Law' to Rebel against the Ottoman Masters...
And all this in order to keep their ''Kingdom'' safe...
Than first WW when serbia ''INVADES'' Albania, with the excuse of protecting serbian minority rights in Albania... War in which serbian army commited the most Attrocities on Unarmed Civilians ever seen in history..
Until the Albanians engaged them in a guerrila strugle against their INVADORS, and the serbian army retrited with humiliation leaving over 150.000 serb soldiers dead..
But in the '' London treaty'' of 1913 serbia with the support of the Big powers of Europe,(England, France, Russia, ect) managed to 'anex' the region of KOSOVA, region which has ALLWAYS been Albanian (Dardania-tribes) inhabitated, even today..
Treating Albanian Kosovars as ''second class cittizens'' in their OWN LAND...
Than im pretty shore that we all know what happend in the Balkan Wars..
....Serbia wanted to dominate over the whole Balkan, their ''BACKWARD''goverment somehow convinced their people on a ''HOLY WAR'' against those others ''second class'' people like Bosnians, Croatians,and Albanians..
And the Key factor is that a lot of serbian people still support their goverment, the very same goverment that DID NOT CARE AT ALL FOR ITS OWN PEOPLE, and did ''NOTHING'' to stop NATO bombing their country..
Didn't even care of negotiating a treaty of peace in order to save their own people from distruction...
How many more human lives its gonna take for serbian people to understand that in order to Survive you need to RESPECT your neighbors, need to RESPECT LIFE??
How many more Mothers have to cry for their son's lost in a STUPID CAUSE?

INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT ''If ''war'' started between Albania and Serbia who will win?? (btw..NOBODY WINS...WE ALL LOOSE..)
Why not talk of ''If Albania and Serbia recognaised each others Values and Respected each other WHO WILL WIN.??
We ALL WIN....

AlboBoY

08-31-2010, 11:16 PM

Balkan map needs to change if we want to see peace

gisse

09-01-2010, 01:07 AM

:
Than first WW when serbia ''INVADES'' Albania, with the excuse of protecting serbian minority rights in Albania... War in which serbian army commited the most Attrocities on Unarmed Civilians ever seen in history..
Until the Albanians engaged them in a guerrila strugle against their INVADORS, and the serbian army retrited with humiliation leaving over 150.000 serb soldiers dead..

When Serbia invaded Albania in WW1?

:
....Serbia wanted to dominate over the whole Balkan, their ''BACKWARD''goverment somehow convinced their people on a ''HOLY WAR'' against those others ''second class'' people like Bosnians, Croatians,and Albanians..
And the Key factor is that a lot of serbian people still support their goverment, the very same goverment that DID NOT CARE AT ALL FOR ITS OWN PEOPLE, and did ''NOTHING'' to stop NATO bombing their country..

When?During WW2 when Bosnian Muslims, Croatians and Albanians together with Fascist Germany where killing Serbs?Or you are talking about 90' when those same Bosnian Muslims, Croats and Albanians started to reincarnate Fascist states from WW2?

You don't live anywhere close don't you?

NATO bombing could be stooped only with occupation of country by NATO forces as sad in Annex B or Rambue agreement. If there was no Annex B agreement would be signed.

:
How many more human lives its gonna take for serbian people to understand that in order to Survive you need to RESPECT your neighbors, need to RESPECT LIFE??
How many more Mothers have to cry for their son's lost in a STUPID CAUSE?

How Albanians respect their neighborer? Albanians want part of Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece. I wouldn't be surprised that one day they will say that they want part of Italy because "long, long long time ago before time have started to count one Albanian lived there...."

You are talking about something and don't look in your court yard. Turn around man. Open your eyes.

gisse

09-01-2010, 01:51 AM

Balkan map needs to change if we want to see peace

You are right.

This is nice suggestion.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/LandsForSerbia.PNG/732px-LandsForSerbia.PNG

lastsamurai

09-01-2010, 05:13 AM

lastsamurai

09-01-2010, 05:14 AM

Balkan map needs to change if we want to see peace

Great powers can't finish correction of Balkan map only with Kosovo...they own to Albanians much more.

http://zemrashqiptare.net/images/articles/2008_11/5570/u1_shqiperiaetnike.jpg

lastsamurai

09-01-2010, 05:16 AM

:hellobaby3:

Until the Albanians engaged them in a guerrila strugle against their INVADORS, and the serbian army retrited with humiliation leaving over 150.000 serb soldiers dead..
But in the '' London treaty'' of 1913 serbia with the support of the Big powers of Europe,(England, France, Russia, ect) managed to 'anex' the region of KOSOVA, region which has ALLWAYS been Albanian (Dardania-tribes) inhabitated, even
d each others Values and Respected each other WHO WILL WIN.??
We ALL WIN....

We had to kill them all.

gisse

09-01-2010, 05:17 AM

^^

Dream about it.Servia will be smaller and smaller..and all regions that are still invaded by serbs will return to real owners.Presheva Valley and around,Voivodina,Sandzak,Banat.

The onliest problem of the balkans is Albanian question which is yet not resolved and sick serbian ultranationalism.

TILL IN DEATH..WE WILL HAVE OUR LANDS BACK.

http://www.freewebs.com/shqiperia/galeria/h_e_sh_e.gif

Aha, you thought on map of Ottoman Turkey vilaet :D

Strange that Albanians claim that borders of their "rightfully" land are really similar (same) as borders of Ottomans vilaet.

What where borders of first Albanian state?

Forgot to ask: what is "Serbian ultra-nationalism"?

lastsamurai

09-01-2010, 05:26 AM

^^

Yes.And serbia was only 'Beogradski Pasaluk".The borders were divided by Otomans by ethnic lines.Serbs had no lands...only Beograd region is real serbia.

Albanians claim what is rightfully ours,nothing more.

Albania declared independence in 1912 with 77.000 km2 but great powers recognized only 28.000 km2.Russia by supporting pan-slavism gave green light to servs to run over Albanian lands.Albania became the first country in the world that was bordering with itself.

"Serbian ultranationalism"??.Is that which makes serbia the most chauvinist country in the world.

Serbian plans since 1912

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9590/400pxserbiafuture2xb1.png

arQUWVGrnPw

lastsamurai

09-01-2010, 05:42 AM

You still didn't explain to me what is "Serbian ultra-nationalism".

You dont want to understand it.

Serbs didn't have land because they didn't accept Islam and was in constant war with Ottomans. Albanians got land for but licking and conversion to Islam.

Really? And u think that religion can be changed so easily?Can u give any single fact for any kind of religion that was spread without bleeding?

Albanians were converted by force.The Otomans revenged for Albanian resistence and for 400.000 Otoman soldiers that were killed by Skanderbeg soldiers in 25 years ..on which Albania was still independent.Albanians was massacred by Ottomans.After fall of the last Albanian castle to Ottoman invaders more than 1 milon Albanians flee to Southern Italy and southern Greece.

It is strange that you know for "Serbian plans since 1912" and most of Serbs don't know for them :)

Most of serbs judge serbian ultranationalism as something normal..'cuz your brains are brainwashed historically.

Do i need to place video with Albanian or Bosnian Muslim idiots in moments of "patriotic speeches"?

Seselj is an patriot now?

gisse

09-01-2010, 05:50 AM

You dont want to understand it.

Give it a try, please.

Really? And u think that religion can be changed so easily?Can u give any single fact for any kind of religion that was spread without bleeding?

Albanians were converted by force.The Otomans revenged for Albanian resistence and for 400.000 Otoman soldiers that were killed by Skanderbeg soldiers in 25 years ..on which Albania was still independent.Albanians was massacred by Ottomans.After fall of the last Albanian castle to Ottoman invaders more than 1 milon Albanians flee to Southern Italy and southern Greece.

Oh common. It was so hard to change religion and to get benefactions.

From which pocket did you take those numbers :) 400 000 Ottoman solders, 1 million Albanians......

Most of serbs judge serbian ultranationalism as something normal..'cuz your brains are brainwashed historically.

Again racism :) If i am black i would sue you and get lot of money from you.

Seselj is an patriot now?

Well, he is intelligent person but he got carried away a little bit (not a little, a lot). Sesel is nationalist.

lastsamurai

09-01-2010, 06:08 AM

Oh common. It was so hard to change religion and to get benefactions.

From which pocket did you take those numbers :) 400 000 Ottoman solders, 1 million Albanians......

Pls.Albania fall to Ottomans in 1468-1471..and Albanians started to accept in mass islam by 1700-1800.Ottomans massacred every city that fall in their hands.All this time from 1500 to 1800 Albanians were the most oppressed people in the empire.By 1800 Albanian started to be represented very well in the empire.We gave to Ottoman empire 26 Prime Ministers,hundred of governors,engineers,famous architects and an large number of ottoman army was composed by Albanians and also Kemal Ataturk from one side is Albanian.

As for Albanians who flee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbëreshë_people#History

Ottomans were losing 70% of their soldiers in every battle against Albanians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Siege_of_Krujë_(1450)

lastsamurai

09-01-2010, 06:11 AM

When Serbia invaded Albania in WW1?
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_campaign_in_Albania_(Balkan_Wars)

gisse

09-01-2010, 06:38 AM

Pls.Albania fall to Ottomans in 1468-1471..and Albanians started to accept in mass islam by 1700-1800.Ottomans massacred every city that fall in their hands.All this time from 1500 to 1800 Albanians were the most oppressed people in the empire.By 1800 Albanian started to be represented very well in the empire.We gave to Ottoman empire 26 Prime Ministers,hundred of governors,engineers,famous architects and an large number of ottoman army was composed by Albanians and also Kemal Ataturk from one side is Albanian.

As for Albanians who flee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbëreshë_people#History

Ottomans were losing 70% of their soldiers in every battle against Albanians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Siege_of_Krujë_(1450)

Similar thing with Serbs but they didn't change religion.

But there is no numbers, there is no mentioning of 1 million of Albanians which have emigrate or 400 000 Ottoman solders which have died.

Interesting article about Albanian emigration on wiki, personally didn't know that. About battle of Kruye i knew but numbers are still far,far away from 400 000.... There should be at least 15+ battles of such intensity on Albanian territory to get such big Ottoman losses.

lastsamurai

09-01-2010, 06:51 AM

Similar thing with Serbs but they didn't change religion.

But there is no numbers, there is no mentioning of 1 million of Albanians which have emigrate or 400 000 Ottoman solders which have died.
Interesting article about Albanian emigration on wiki, personally didn't know that. About battle of Kruye i knew but numbers are still far,far away from 400 000.... There should be at least 15+ battles of such intensity on Albanian territory to get such big Ottoman losses.

Yes.500.000 fleed to Italy and 500.000 toward Greece.

This is an nice thread about Albanians of Siciliy..if u'r interested to have an look:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=761550

In total the battles against Ottomans were 26.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Albanian-Turkish_Wars#Battles_of_the_League_of_Lezha