if a war will start between albania and sebia who will win

[serb08]

Who will win Serbia or Albania?
Serbia m-84 vs. Albanian t-62= Serbian m-84 is a more modern tank it has thicker armor about 512mm while t-62 has 115mm thick armor the m-84 has a range of 500-700 km while t-62 has 400-600km the m-85 travel at 75 km while t-62 travels 50km, Serbia m84 clear winner.

Serbian t-72 vs. type 59 tank= t-72 is regarded as one of the best tanks made by Russia it is faster then an type 59 about 20km faster it has thicker armor and a range of 600-800km much more then type-59 it has biological nuclear armor to protect it self from radiation and is much better.

Let’s talk up in the air now who will win air battles

J-22 oaro from Serbia vs. mig 19: mig 19 was developed in the 1960 and the j-22 in the 80s. The j-22 is much faster and is capable when it comes to technology. It main missile AGM-65 Maverick which is the only plane in Serbia able to use it unlike the mig-19 that uses common missiles. In this fight a j-22 will shot a mig-19 no problem.

G-4 vs. Shenyang F-6s: G-4 vs. f-6 the F-6 is a chinies version of the mig21 and is slower then its Russian version against a G-4 it would probably lose it is nothing bust an old Chinese mig21 and the Chinese sucked at making aircraft back then so I dought it would win the g-4 is more advanced and an all around better fighter.

Mig-29 vs F-7 Airguard: the reason I picked mig29 against an f-7 is because albania has only 12 and Serbia has about 5 mig29 the mig29 are a good fighter and are used by Germany, India, Russia all the big names they can easily demolish a chinese f-7 1960 jet the mig29 were built to fight against f-15 and f-14.

Serbian navy let’s talk, about the fact that Serbia has 120 meter war ships and 4 submarines and about 10 missile and gunboats compared to Albanian small missile and gun boats dought you can win against Russian 120 meter warships. Only problem is we have no coast so they have to dock in Belgrade buy we can get them out to sea.

So my report has shown Serbia is better in all aspects of fighting better weapons tanks planes, war ships

M-84
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/M84/M84.jpg
http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen_orient/E...

T-72
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t...

G-4 Galeb
http://www.yumodel.co.yu/yugoslav_air_force/g...

j-22
http://user.sezampro.yu/~vkeza/images/orao.jp...
http://www.combataircraft.com/aircraft/fj22_p...

mig29http://www.flymig.com/wallpaper/1024x768/MiG-...

warships http://news.webshots.com/photo/13472798040612...

there are
238 m-84 260 t-72 300 upgraded t-55 and 100 viu munga
j-22 =29, G-4 =14, mig29= 5, mig21 22

[kasaeed1]

Who will win Serbia or Albania?
Serbia m-84 vs. Albanian t-62= Serbian m-84 is a more modern tank it has thicker armor about 512mm while t-62 has 115mm thick armor the m-84 has a range of 500-700 km while t-62 has 400-600km the m-85 travel at 75 km while t-62 travels 50km, Serbia m84 clear winner.

Serbian t-72 vs. type 59 tank= t-72 is regarded as one of the best tanks made by Russia it is faster then an type 59 about 20km faster it has thicker armor and a range of 600-800km much more then type-59 it has biological nuclear armor to protect it self from radiation and is much better.

Let’s talk up in the air now who will win air battles

J-22 oaro from Serbia vs. mig 19: mig 19 was developed in the 1960 and the j-22 in the 80s. The j-22 is much faster and is capable when it comes to technology. It main missile AGM-65 Maverick which is the only plane in Serbia able to use it unlike the mig-19 that uses common missiles. In this fight a j-22 will shot a mig-19 no problem.

G-4 vs. Shenyang F-6s: G-4 vs. f-6 the F-6 is a chinies version of the mig21 and is slower then its Russian version against a G-4 it would probably lose it is nothing bust an old Chinese mig21 and the Chinese sucked at making aircraft back then so I dought it would win the g-4 is more advanced and an all around better fighter.

Mig-29 vs F-7 Airguard: the reason I picked mig29 against an f-7 is because albania has only 12 and Serbia has about 5 mig29 the mig29 are a good fighter and are used by Germany, India, Russia all the big names they can easily demolish a chinese f-7 1960 jet the mig29 were built to fight against f-15 and f-14.

Serbian navy let’s talk, about the fact that Serbia has 120 meter war ships and 4 submarines and about 10 missile and gunboats compared to Albanian small missile and gun boats dought you can win against Russian 120 meter warships. Only problem is we have no coast so they have to dock in Belgrade buy we can get them out to sea.

So my report has shown Serbia is better in all aspects of fighting better weapons tanks planes, war ships

M-84
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/M84/M84.jpg
http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen_orient/E...

T-72
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t...

G-4 Galeb
http://www.yumodel.co.yu/yugoslav_air_force/g...

j-22
http://user.sezampro.yu/~vkeza/images/orao.jp...
http://www.combataircraft.com/aircraft/fj22_p...

mig29http://www.flymig.com/wallpaper/1024x768/MiG-...

warships http://news.webshots.com/photo/13472798040612...

there are
238 m-84 260 t-72 300 upgraded t-55 and 100 viu munga
j-22 =29, G-4 =14, mig29= 5, mig21 22

I am not sure but Albanians will have support of Turks. Serbian will have support of Russian ...hmmm looks like World War I is starting again. Muslims countries have endless supply of Mujahedeen who are ready to strap bombs with their body and throwing themself on enemy. So even if Serbia take over Albania in the long run they will lose.

[serb08]

this has nothing to do with the past that was 12 years ago it is rather will serbia or albania win or who will get the upper hand since serbia and albania are one of the strongest in the balkans

[gmi serbia]

SERBIA HAS NO CHANCE AGAINSE ALBANIA, SERBS WILL KILL INNOCENT ALBANIANS, BUT ALBANIAN SOLDIERS WILL KILL SERB SOLDIERS JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPEND IN BOSNIA, IF SERBS ATTACK ALBANIA ITS HELL FOR SERBIA, THE REASONE IS THAT ALBANIA WILL FIGHT TILL DEATH, THE SERBS WILL TURN BACK, IT DOES NOT MATTER IF SERBIA HAS M-84, ALBANIA HAS A SH!T LOAD OF ATG's THAT WILL KNOCK OUT SERB TANKS JUST LIKE IN KOSOVO :)

In Bosnia not happend enithing, you look TV and judgement of tribunal last month!

In Kosovo Serbs fight against NATO and NATO against Serbs! Albanians (Shiptare) is not be there! They come afther war and make some army whit West and America!

That is thrue and all world know that!:laugh4:

[KingoftheHill]

I think Serbia may have it in them, they are veterans.

[Jon Snow]

Who will win Serbia or Albania?
Serbia m-84 vs. Albanian t-62= Serbian m-84 is a more modern tank it has thicker armor about 512mm while t-62 has 115mm thick armor the m-84 has a range of 500-700 km while t-62 has 400-600km the m-85 travel at 75 km while t-62 travels 50km, Serbia m84 clear winner.

Serbian t-72 vs. type 59 tank= t-72 is regarded as one of the best tanks made by Russia it is faster then an type 59 about 20km faster it has thicker armor and a range of 600-800km much more then type-59 it has biological nuclear armor to protect it self from radiation and is much better.

Let’s talk up in the air now who will win air battles

J-22 oaro from Serbia vs. mig 19: mig 19 was developed in the 1960 and the j-22 in the 80s. The j-22 is much faster and is capable when it comes to technology. It main missile AGM-65 Maverick which is the only plane in Serbia able to use it unlike the mig-19 that uses common missiles. In this fight a j-22 will shot a mig-19 no problem.

G-4 vs. Shenyang F-6s: G-4 vs. f-6 the F-6 is a chinies version of the mig21 and is slower then its Russian version against a G-4 it would probably lose it is nothing bust an old Chinese mig21 and the Chinese sucked at making aircraft back then so I dought it would win the g-4 is more advanced and an all around better fighter.

Mig-29 vs F-7 Airguard: the reason I picked mig29 against an f-7 is because albania has only 12 and Serbia has about 5 mig29 the mig29 are a good fighter and are used by Germany, India, Russia all the big names they can easily demolish a chinese f-7 1960 jet the mig29 were built to fight against f-15 and f-14.

Serbian navy let’s talk, about the fact that Serbia has 120 meter war ships and 4 submarines and about 10 missile and gunboats compared to Albanian small missile and gun boats dought you can win against Russian 120 meter warships. Only problem is we have no coast so they have to dock in Belgrade buy we can get them out to sea.

So my report has shown Serbia is better in all aspects of fighting better weapons tanks planes, war ships

M-84
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/M84/M84.jpg
http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen_orient/E...

T-72
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t...

G-4 Galeb
http://www.yumodel.co.yu/yugoslav_air_force/g...

j-22
http://user.sezampro.yu/~vkeza/images/orao.jp...
http://www.combataircraft.com/aircraft/fj22_p...

mig29http://www.flymig.com/wallpaper/1024x768/MiG-...

warships http://news.webshots.com/photo/13472798040612...

there are
238 m-84 260 t-72 300 upgraded t-55 and 100 viu munga
j-22 =29, G-4 =14, mig29= 5, mig21 22

My god! :no2: You're insane!

Your country completely fell apart economicaly, culturaly, moraly and politicaly and became the sewage of Europe, because of your insane need to take other people's land. Mind you, I don't mean to offend by saying this. I'm telling it the way it is. And now you desire another war?

And what are these comparisons suposed to be? What difference does it make what weapons you have and albanians have? If you attack anybody you will be bombed back to stone age. Literally. And this time it won't even be NATO. Russians are getting so pissed off by you and the problems you keep causing them that they will probably bomb you themselves. (I'm kidding here, but if I were Putin, I'd definitely smack you a few times for disciplinary purposes.:wub2: )

P.S. What navy? You have no sea. How can you have a navy? Where do you get the idea that another country (Montenegro) would allow you to use it's sea to attack somebody? :roflmao3:

Stop dreaming about wars and conquest and start thinking about making your own country a better place to live.

[Jon Snow]

this has nothing to do with the past that was 12 years ago it is rather will serbia or albania win or who will get the upper hand since serbia and albania are one of the strongest in the balkans

Strongest in what? Budget deficite? Lowest GDP per capita? Lowest morale amongst the troops? Most coruption? Most outdated equipment? :roflmao3:

Please. You don't even have a government. :worried2:

[serb08]

war is sometimes neccesary on whats going on now in the balkans
serbian politicians especially the radicals feel they need to go to war over kosovo serbia maybe poor but it is rising in economy serbia was the hardest hit country after ww2 milions died, all infrastructure destroyed absolutley no money but still we became with croatia, bosnia and slovenia the 4th largest military and even with them gone we were still powerful it dosent take long for a country with allies such as russia, greece and china to become a normal country.

[serb08]

i dont want serbia to go to war but this is what serbian politicians feel might happen with the KLA starting to rebuild agian and tensions rising if russia stalls the un talks the albianians in kosovo will go crazy and violence will begin

[serb08]

if you have been following whats happening in the balkans you will probaly already no

[gmi serbia]

I think Serbia may have it in them, they are veterans.

Thrue!:laugh4:

[ARBIH]

war is sometimes neccesary on whats going on now in the balkans
serbian politicians especially the radicals feel they need to go to war over kosovo serbia maybe poor but it is rising in economy serbia was the hardest hit country after ww2 milions died, all infrastructure destroyed absolutley no money but still we became with croatia, bosnia and slovenia the 4th largest military and even with them gone we were still powerful it dosent take long for a country with allies such as russia, greece and china to become a normal country.
china? i didnt know they were your allies....do they even know that serbia exists?

[serb08]

china is more of a friend in economy if you were following serbian news you would no

[Gon4z]

I am not sure but Albanians will have support of Turks. Serbian will have support of Russian ...hmmm looks like World War I is starting again. Muslims countries have endless supply of Mujahedeen who are ready to strap bombs with their body and throwing themself on enemy. So even if Serbia take over Albania in the long run they will lose.

Albania will have full support of Turkey, Egypt,Syria and Iran also support from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Morocco and even support from the West since Serbia is and anti western country and loves Russia and the west don't support a country that is pro Russian

And yes we had around 4,000 Mujahdeens in the First Kosova war by February 1999 but they were a little to late in 1998 there were around 1,200 of them inside Kosova the other were having trouble geting in through the border

My fathers friend borough them all in.

SERBIA CAN NEVER EVEN GET CLOSE TO ALBANIA THE BATTLE FIELD WILL BE KOSOVA... lets just get that Clear :smile1:

[Falco]

in a pure fight serbia vs. albania, serbia would win. not just because they have the stronger military, also because they probaly would be supported by mother russia;)
but i think nato would intervene against serbia - like in 1992 and 1999 - when it again attacked foreign nations.

[Gon4z]

In Bosnia not happend enithing, you look TV and judgement of tribunal last month!

In Kosovo Serbs fight against NATO and NATO against Serbs! Albanians (Shiptare) is not be there! They come afther war and make some army whit West and America!

That is thrue and all world know that!:laugh4:


Learn to spell

IN Bosnia you had your *** handed to you in a plate by the Bosniaks/Muslims and Mujahdeens

You need to learn History you little SUPER NATIONALISTIC CHILD

KLA existed since 1991 it was in very small number on March 1997 (after the Murder of the Albanian Teacher by Serbian Police Forces) The KLA came out openly as a freedom fighting army with a 10,000 strong troop and by 1998 that number more than doubled to around 25,000 including the forren fighters

and KLA killed more than 6000 Serbian Military Police and Para militant forces so stop talking crap I have never seen so much Sh*t come pout some one mouth you are so uneducated and miss informed you speak thing you liked to have happened

[Gon4z]

My god! :no2: You're insane!

Your country completely fell apart economicaly, culturaly, moraly and politicaly and became the sewage of Europe, because of your insane need to take other people's land. Mind you, I don't mean to offend by saying this. I'm telling it the way it is. And now you desire another war?

And what are these comparisons suposed to be? What difference does it make what weapons you have and albanians have? If you attack anybody you will be bombed back to stone age. Literally. And this time it won't even be NATO. Russians are getting so pissed off by you and the problems you keep causing them that they will probably bomb you themselves. (I'm kidding here, but if I were Putin, I'd definitely smack you a few times for disciplinary purposes.:wub2: )

They are the 2nd poorest country in Europe BTW so they are extremely POOR and Serbs are WAR HUNGRY ANIMALS they love killing civilians and looting same to what Russians are doing in Chechnya

And No This time there will be NO intervention because Albanians especially Kosovar Albanian will not allow it because we will want to finish this one and for all

They have already been bomber back to the stone age

P.S. What navy? You have no sea. How can you have a navy? Where do you get the idea that another country (Montenegro) would allow you to use it's sea to attack somebody? :roflmao3:

Stop dreaming about wars and conquest and start thinking about making your own country a better place to live.

They are DELOUSIONAL as I have mentioned many times They can use the SAR boat they have in the Danube to attack Serbia but I wonder how they are gona put them in the Sea

But I do agree that another war might be Possible since tension have gotten at an all time high since January of this year and this war will be the END of Serbia I assure you that Albanian will use Sandjak where its mainly populated by Bosniaks and lots of Albanians when war hits there then Bosnia will automatically get involved and this will become a 3 way war against Bosnia and Albania also by other enemy's that might use Serbia's vulnerability like Bulgaria or Hungary or Croatia

in a pure fight serbia vs. albania, serbia would win. not just because they have the stronger military, also because they probaly would be supported by mother russia;)
but i think nato would intervene against serbia - like in 1992 and 1999 - when it again attacked foreign nations.

This time no one will intervene so let every one get that clear

[Gon4z]

war is sometimes neccesary on whats going on now in the balkans
serbian politicians especially the radicals feel they need to go to war over kosovo serbia maybe poor but it is rising in economy serbia was the hardest hit country after ww2 milions died, all infrastructure destroyed absolutley no money but still we became with croatia, bosnia and slovenia the 4th largest military and even with them gone we were still powerful it dosent take long for a country with allies such as russia, greece and china to become a normal country.

YES i do agree with you on this when it comes to the mentality and psychology of our people the only thing that fixes problems for us is VIOLENCE AND WAR so the Kosova status will never be solved by diplomacy either way another war is very possible

OK delusional KID Serbia YUGOSLAVIA together lost almost 1 million people Jews Civilians and Military only 570,000 of them were Serbs so stop lying with you millions YOU SERBS LOVE Exaggerating NUMBERS and PLAYING THE VICTIM

The worst hit countries of WWII were GERMANY POLAND RUSSIA JAPAN CHINA INDONESIA ALL other suffered under 1 million casualties

After WWII Serbia was given millions in AID by the West and especially USA

Well its taking you long 17 year since the first war and you still are Europe's Poorest nation and 8 years since the Last war and you still hold that Position It took Albania 4 Year to Go from Poorest in Europe to 4 times richer than Serbia and Albania has very few allies h:smile1:

[Gon4z]

i dont want serbia to go to war but this is what serbian politicians feel might happen with the KLA starting to rebuild agian and tensions rising if russia stalls the un talks the albianians in kosovo will go crazy and violence will begin

KLA does not need Rebuilding it has allays remained active
And YES its TRUE Kosova is a DYNAMITE waiting to be sparked and the UN has put the flame very close to it so its most likely will catch flame some time this year if UN does not grant it Independence :smile1:

[Gon4z]

if you have been following whats happening in the balkans you will probaly already no

YEP You would

Well what can I say.... SEE YOU ON THE BATTLE FILED INSHALLAH :smile1:

[Gon4z]

This is what Albania can have Operational at time of WAR
But they have many more jets and armoured but not in good shape


IL-28 ------------------------------------ x1
.....................

MIG-21F/F-7A ---------------------------- x12
MIG-19/F-6 ------------------------------ x50
Mig-17/F-5 ------------------------------ x50
Mig-15 ---------------------------------- x50

.....................

As.350 ---------------------------------- x3
Alouette III ---------------------------- x4
AB 206 C -------------------------------- x20
AB 205 A -------------------------------- x20
Bell 222 UT ----------------------------- x1
Bo.105 ---------------------------------- x12
Mi-4/z-5 -------------------------------- x30+
Mi-8 ------------------------------------ x1

.........................

AN-2/Y-5 -------------------------------- x13
IL-14 ----------------------------------- x4

______________________________________________
some ~1,080+ tanks


PT-76B--------------100
T-34/85-------------200
T-55----------------100
T-62A----------------55
T-62M ---------------50
Type 59-------------400
Type 62--------------75
Type 63-------------100
______________________________________________
some ~1,185 or more APC & armored vehicles


HMMWV --------------300
M113 ---------------130
BMP-1---------------17
BMP-2---------------13
BRDM-2--------------25
BRDM-1--------------100
BTR-40--------------100
BTR-50/Type 77------200
Type 60-------------100
Type 63------------200
______________________________________________

Artillery----------------------700
MRL----------------------------120
Mortars------------------------2000
Anti-Tank Missiles-------------200
Air Defense Vehicles-----------50
Air Defense Guns---------------150
Surface-to-Air Missiles--------500

250,000 Soldiers + 800,000 other males fit and experienced for military service
50,000 KLA
10,000 Mujahdeens

[Gon4z]

This is what Serbia can make operational in time of war
They have more Fighter jets and weaponry though that are not battle worthy


MIG-21---------------------------- x23
J-22 ----------------------------- x34
G-4 ------------------------------ x16
G-2/J-1 -------------------------- x32
........................

SA-341/342 Gazelle --------------- x35
Mi-8/17--------------------------- x12

.........................

AN-26----------------------------- x 2
154
______________________________________________
some 790 tanks


T-55----------------100
T-55----------------400
T-72----------------60
M-84----------------230
______________________________________________
APC & IVF 710


M80A---------------500
M60P---------------100
BOV-----------------60
HMMWV-------------50
______________________________________________

Artillery----------------------800
MRL----------------------------150
Mortars------------------------2000
Anti-Tank Missiles-------------200
Air Defense Vehicles-----------100
Air Defense Guns---------------150
Surface-to-Air Missiles--------600

180,000 Soldiers + 1,000,000 other males fit for military service
10,000 Para militans and forren volunteers

Serbia's 5x Mig-29 and 2x Mi-24 are not operational and are not battle worthy they are in such bad shape you can in theory knock them down from the Air with a .50 Call so those I did not include since they will probably will never see combat in this WAR

[Gon4z]

In the past several years, there has been a fuel shortage problem in the Serbian Air Force. According to an Air Forces Monthly, in 2006, the Serbian Air Force is only getting about 20% of the required 1,000 tons of jet fuel per month. Because of this, aircraft don't fly often and pilots don't get enough hours in flying to have an acceptable training environment. Among those who get the worst of the problems are the J-22 Orao pilots. According to Air Forces Monthly, pilots in the "Tigers" squadron (Lead by Dejan Joksimović) of Oraos would be considered lucky to get 10-15 hours of flying in 2006. Pilots manning the QRA (Quick Reaction Alert), which consists of two MiG-21s, quoted to Air Force Monthly that they got "A few hours of flight time in 2005 and 2006." The luckier people of the Serbian Air Force of the problem are the An-26 pilots, the Gazelle helicopter pilots, and the Soko G-4 pilots. G-4 Super Galebs in the Golubovci Airbase in Montenegro were said to be the most active combat aircraft in the whole Air Force, before Montenegro seceded from Serbia on May 22. Pilots of the SA 341/342 Gazelle have been reported to get an average of 20 hours of flight per year according to Air Forces Monthly. AFM says that the An-26 by far the most active aircraft in the whole Air Force. Although most of the An-26s are stored, the aircraft that still fly are kept in great condition thanks to spare parts from retired aircraft.

January 2007 Air Force Monthly tells that the Fuel problems have not gotten any better, AFM reports that Serbia is now getting a little more jet fuel than they got in early 2006 but still not the needed amount, the figure for the last 3 months has remained at around 20% of the 1,000 tons per month required and the J-22 Orao pilots still are the worst suffering.

Serbia suffers from low fuel supplies so those planes are pretty useless when you cant afford to fly them and have inexperienced pilots

same with you Army

We Albanians Have older Equipment but we have a HELL LOAD OF THEM and sometimes QUANTITY is better than QUALITY that's why the Soviets build simpler equipments in tens of thousands in quantity unlike the west who build high cost sophisticated equipment into hundreds that's why to days all NATO nations know they cant defeat Russia in a battle fort they must use Small Tactical Nuclear missiles

Same ROOT Albania Took in its communisms simpler but more is better than sophisticated and less :smile1:

[Gon4z]

so in this war its more Like

Serbian MIG-21 vs Albanian F-7 = Serbia probably will have an upper hand since theirs are better and they have double the number of ours

Serbian J-22 vs Albanian Mig-19/F-6 = The Mig 19 can out preform a Mig-21 in a Dog fight its faster and has a further range than the J-22 it also can carry more pay load than the J-22 so it will defiantly out preform a J-22 also we have double more Mig-19 than they have J-22's

Serbian G-4 vs Albanian Mig-17/F-5 = they are very similar in statistics apart from that the mig-17 is slightly faster and has a further range but because the G-4 is more modern it will probably have the upper hand but since We have 3 times more Migs than they have G-4 Albanian upper hand hand

Serbias J-21/G-2 Vs Albanian Mig-15 = they are very similar in statistics apart from that the mig-15 is slightly faster and has a further range but because the G-2 is more modern it will probably have the upper hand but since We have more Migs than they have G-2/J-21 Albanian upper hand hand

Serbian Sa.341 Gazzels vs Albanian As.350, Allouettes III,(AB.206/Bell 206) & Bo.105 = clear Albanian upper hand hand only by the Bo.105 let alone the others

Serbian Mi-8/17 vs Albanian Mi-8, Mi-4 & (AB.205/UH-1H) = Albanian upper hand hand by the quantity and by the UH-1's quality



Serbian T-34 vs Albanian T-34, PT-76 & Type 62 = Albanian upper hand by quantity and Quality (when it comes to teh Type-62's)

Serbian T-55 vs Albanian T-55, Type 59 & Type 63 = Albanian upper hand by quantity

Serbian T-72/M84 vs Albanian T-62A & T-62M = Serbian upper hand by quantity and Quality



Serbian M80 vs Albanian BMP-1 & BMP-2 = Serbian upper hand because of their high quantity

Serbuan M60 vs Albanian M113, BTR-50/Type 77 & Type 63 = Albanian upper hand by quantity and Quality

Serbuan BOV vs Albanian BRDM-1, BRDM-2 & BTR-40 = Albanian upper hand by quantity


AND BTW SERBIA HAS NO NAVY

Serbia has the upper hand in 3 fields and its even in 2 so now do the maths

[Gon4z]

Albanians are very patriotic and are Muslim so either way by religion or nationality we do not fear death but well come it because Heaven and glory come with it.

Whilst Serbs as they have show in every war they have LOST they fear death because they only kill civilians and only fight people that they out number and out gun by 5 to 1 and when they enemy's get a little stronger they try to avoid conflict with them but turn to diplomacy like they did in Bosnia because the Great Dudakovic only needed 3 more weeks to Kick ALL serbs from Bosnia

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

I'd reckon Serbia would win, but war seems highly unlikely and I hope it stays that way :)

[serb08]

so in this war its more Like

Serbian MIG-21 vs Albanian F-7 = Serbia probably will have an upper hand since theirs are better and they have double the number of ours

Serbian J-22 vs Albanian Mig-19/F-6 = The Mig 19 can out preform a Mig-21 in a Dog fight its faster and has a further range than the J-22 it also can carry more pay load than the J-22 so it will defiantly out preform a J-22 also we have double more Mig-19 than they have J-22's

Serbian G-4 vs Albanian Mig-17/F-5 = they are very similar in statistics apart from that the mig-17 is slightly faster and has a further range but because the G-4 is more modern it will probably have the upper hand but since We have 3 times more Migs than they have G-4 Albanian upper hand hand

Serbias J-21/G-2 Vs Albanian Mig-15 = they are very similar in statistics apart from that the mig-15 is slightly faster and has a further range but because the G-4 is more modern it will probably have the upper hand but since We have more Migs than they have G-2/J-21 Albanian upper hand hand

Serbian Sa.341 Gazzels vs Albanian As.350, Allouettes III,(AB.206/Bell 206) & Bo.105 = clear Albanian upper hand hand only by the Bo.105

Serbian Mi-8/17 vs Albanian Mi-8, Mi-4 & (AB.205/UH-1H) = Albanian upper hand hand by the quantity and by the UH-1's



Serbian T-34 vs Albanian T-34, PT-76 & Type 62 = Albanian upper hand by quantity amd Quality

Serbian T-55 vs Albanian T-55, Type 59 & Type 63 = Albanian upper hand by quantity amn Quality

Serbian T-72/M84 vs Albanian T-62A & T-62M = Serbian upper hand by quantity amd Quality



Serbian M80 vs Albanian BMP-1 & BMP-2 = Serbian upper hand because of their high quantity

Serbuan M60 vs Albanian M113, BTR-50/Type 77 & Type 63 = Albanian upper hand by quantity and Quality

Serbuan BOV vs Albanian BRDM-1, BRDM-2 & BTR-40 = Albanian upper hand by quantity and Quality


AND BTW SERBIA HAS NO NAVY

Serbia has the upper hand in 3 fields and its even in 2 so now do the maths

your analysation is good but you left 2 things out the m84 will role over all your tanks in a matter of seconds, and the serb mig29 is comming back in late 2007 and early 2008 so youy mig-17, f-7 will be downed in a matter of seconds nato was lucky in 99 that they were flying with screwed engines lol we could have taken down a few more aircraft.

[serb08]

http://armoured.vif2.ru/t-62m_3.JPG
T-55H - highly modernized version with new fire control system and explosive reactive armor
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Btr50_Yugoimport.JPG
new serb BTR-50PK Yugoimport SDPR upgrade package
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Lrwolf2.jpg
serbia also took a purchase of the british military land rover
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Serval_2.jpg
Serbian Armed Forces
The Serbian Army used mainly for special forces and military police/anti terrorist units, more are expected to be purchased for conventional ground forces use.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3f/PinzLRear02.jpg
serb also purchased Pinzgauer of the united kingdom to replace its ageing soviet trucks.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Sa3a.jpg
the sa3 purchased fitted with advanced radar shot down the f-117 in 99 and was proven a great SAM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Sa6_1.jpg
the SA6 shot down the f-16 in bosnia when it entered serbia controled area.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/M21S_Assault_Rifle.jpg
serbian m21 assault rifle unlike the old soviet rifiles this is from zastava made in 2004 accepted by serbia military.

[serb08]

GONZ4 show me something of albania if they are great

[Gon4z]

http://armoured.vif2.ru/t-62m_3.JPG
T-55H - highly modernized version with new fire control system and explosive reactive armor
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Btr50_Yugoimport.JPG
new serb BTR-50PK Yugoimport SDPR upgrade package
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Lrwolf2.jpg
serbia also took a purchase of the british military land rover
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Serval_2.jpg
Serbian Armed Forces
The Serbian Army used mainly for special forces and military police/anti terrorist units, more are expected to be purchased for conventional ground forces use.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3f/PinzLRear02.jpg
serb also purchased Pinzgauer of the united kingdom to replace its ageing soviet trucks.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Sa3a.jpg
the sa3 purchased fitted with advanced radar shot down the f-117 in 99 and was proven a great SAM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Sa6_1.jpg
the SA6 shot down the f-16 in bosnia when it entered serbia controled area.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/M21S_Assault_Rifle.jpg
serbian m21 assault rifle unlike the old soviet rifiles this is from zastava made in 2004 accepted by serbia military.

Ohhh God here we go again with you posting PROPAGANDA... I already exposed you with the mig why do you still go on humilitaing your self

That first PHOTOS is not of a T-55H its a Russian T-62M the same Type Abania has 55 of them and it came from this website http://armoured.vif2.ru/ which proves tha you are a liar and love spreading propaganda

Also Serbia has less than 100 T-55H also Serbia has retired many of its T-55 same have even been destroyed its trying to sell the rest around 300 if they cant sell them they will have to scrap most of them

The second photo is a photo-shopped its a BTR-50 and some one has added the turret of a Yugoslav M80 Prototype ACP might I add it has been done very Poorly, although it was meant to be modernised for real it never happened because it is Pointless

and if you want to see what Albania has go to the Albanian thread and see there are hundreds of Photos I do not feel like posting the same photos over and over again also I have just listed what we have and what you have

The M21 rifle is in very short supply only the CAJ and couple of other special forces use it

The Land rovers and Meredes jeeps and truck... DUD they are only cars a F-ing hand grenade will neutralise them any ways you have less than 100 of them you main jeep still remains the UAZ and LADA NIVA

You SA-2 did not shoot down the F-117 its was shot down by AA-Guns firing widely on the air STOP LyING and twisting the story we all know you a Liar BTW Albania also has SA-2

as for the SA-6 they are great but you only have 50 left as of 2004 but yes it will give you good protection

[KingoftheHill]

This is what Albania can have Operational at time of WAR
But they have many more jets and armoured but not in good shape


IL-28 ------------------------------------ x1
.....................

MIG-21F/F-7A ---------------------------- x12
MIG-19/F-6 ------------------------------ x50
Mig-17/F-5 ------------------------------ x50
Mig-15 ---------------------------------- x50

.....................

As.350 ---------------------------------- x3
Alouette III ---------------------------- x4
AB 206 C -------------------------------- x20
AB 205 A -------------------------------- x20
Bell 222 UT ----------------------------- x1
Bo.105 ---------------------------------- x12
Mi-4/z-5 -------------------------------- x30+
Mi-8 ------------------------------------ x1

.........................

AN-2/Y-5 -------------------------------- x13
IL-14 ----------------------------------- x4

______________________________________________
some ~1,080+ tanks


PT-76B--------------100
T-34/85-------------200
T-55----------------100
T-62A----------------55
T-62M ---------------50
Type 59-------------400
Type 62--------------75
Type 63-------------100
______________________________________________
some ~1,185 or more APC & armored vehicles


HMMWV --------------300
M113 ---------------130
BMP-1---------------17
BMP-2---------------13
BRDM-2--------------25
BRDM-1--------------100
BTR-40--------------100
BTR-50/Type 77------200
Type 60-------------100
Type 63------------200
______________________________________________

Artillery----------------------700
MRL----------------------------120
Mortars------------------------2000
Anti-Tank Missiles-------------200
Air Defense Vehicles-----------50
Air Defense Guns---------------150
Surface-to-Air Missiles--------500

250,000 Soldiers + 800,000 other males fit and experienced for military service
50,000 KLA
10,000 Mujahdeens

Looks more like a scrapyard than anything...

[Gon4z]

Looks more like a scrapyard than anything...
Hello Serbian a** licker :biggrin1:

Yep its our Scrap yard that made us Yugoslavia's 2nd biggest thread from 1955 - 1991 and now probably Serbians 2nd biggest of not main threat

and BTW they have pretty much what we have so they have just a little different scrap yard from us

BTW welcome back from your BAN

[KingoftheHill]

Hello Serbian a** licker :biggrin1:

Yep its our Scrap yard that made us Yugoslavia's 2nd biggest thread from 1955 - 1991 and now probably Serbians 2nd biggest of not main threat

and BTW they have pretty much what we have so they have just a little different scrap yard from us

BTW welcome back from your BAN

If thats not a 1960s throwback then I don't what is my Atheist friend.

[Gon4z]

If thats not a 1960s throwback then I don't what is my Atheist friend.

Do you need a doctor you don't look OK to me ??? :smile1:

[KingoftheHill]

In all seriousness who do you think is more modern?

Albania or Serbia?

All differences aside.

[Gon4z]

In all seriousness who do you think is more modern?

Albania or Serbia?

All differences aside.

Stop trying to change the subject and make friends :huh2:

I know most people have a stereotypical view of Albania but take look and you tell me :smile1:
http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=12219
http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?showtopic=25
http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?showtopic=24
http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?showtopic=23
http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?showtopic=22

[KingoftheHill]

Stop trying to change the subject and make friends :huh2:

I know most people have a stereotypical view of Albania but take look and you tell me :smile1:


http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?showtopic=25
http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?showtopic=24
http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?showtopic=23
http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?showtopic=22

Change subject?

As far as I'm concerned this topic is about a war between Albania and Serbia, not rail networks or any of that.

[Gon4z]

In all seriousness who do you think is more modern?

Albania or Serbia?

All differences aside.Change subject?

As far as I'm concerned this topic is about a war between Albania and Serbia, not rail networks or any of that.

I believe you are the one that changed it from war to who is modern/better :biggrin1: do you have a short memory spam or what

[KingoftheHill]

I believe you are the one that changed it from war to who is modern/better :biggrin1: do you have a short memory spam or what

Thats not changing it because they are actually relevant to the war.

[Gon4z]

Thats not changing it because they are actually relevant to the war.

No its not you asked about the country not its military next time be specific because you are hard to understand you give mixed signals like a woman :)

[KingoftheHill]

No its not you asked about the country not its military next time be specific because you are hard to understand you give mixed signals like a woman :)

I was referring to the military, which is a given looking at the thread title.

[Gon4z]

I was referring to the military, which is a given looking at the thread title.

You said Albania or Serbia they are both countries and when you ask any normal person who is more modern Albania or Serbia ? they will automatically assume that you are asking about the country because its a logical and normal thing but you did not refer to their militarise.
Just admit it you made a mistake :biggrin1:

and if its relevant then why are you B*tching

[KingoftheHill]

You said Albania or Serbia they are both countries and when you ask any normal person who is more modern Albania or Serbia ? they will automatically assume that you are asking about the country because its a logical and normal thing but you did not refer to their militarise.
Just admit it you made a mistake :biggrin1:

and if its relevant then why are you B*tching

I'm going over it so you can understand it you hard-head

lol

Big thanks for the Lakruar

[Gon4z]

I'm going over it so you can understand it you hard-head

lol

you need to go over it so you can understand but thanx anyway

Big thanks for the Lakruar

The what what now...:worried2: :err2: :hmm4: :confused: :errrr3: :confused2: :huh1: :confused4: :worried1: :err1: :O_o4:

[KingoftheHill]

Huh?????????????

[Gon4z]

Huh?????????????

:smug1: !!!

[KingoftheHill]

:smug1: !!!

Do they eat it in Kosovo too?

[Gon4z]

Do they eat it in Kosovo too?

eat what ???

[KingoftheHill]

eat what ???

Lakruar, an albanian pizza

[Gon4z]

Lakruar, an albanian pizza

Maybe but we must call it differently in Kosova since I cant think of what it is...

Ummmmm what's this gotta do with anything :smile1:

[serb08]

Ohhh God here we go again with you posting PROPAGANDA... I already exposed you with the mig why do you still go on humilitaing your self

That first PHOTOS is not of a T-55H its a Russian T-62M the same Type Abania has 55 of them and it came from this website http://armoured.vif2.ru/ which proves tha you are a liar and love spreading propaganda

Also Serbia has less than 100 T-55H also Serbia has retired many of its T-55 same have even been destroyed its trying to sell the rest around 300 if they cant sell them they will have to scrap most of them

The second photo is a photo-shopped its a BTR-50 and some one has added the turret of a Yugoslav M80 Prototype ACP might I add it has been done very Poorly, although it was meant to be modernised for real it never happened because it is Pointless

and if you want to see what Albania has go to the Albanian thread and see there are hundreds of Photos I do not feel like posting the same photos over and over again also I have just listed what we have and what you have

The M21 rifle is in very short supply only the CAJ and couple of other special forces use it

The Land rovers and Meredes jeeps and truck... DUD they are only cars a F-ing hand grenade will neutralise them any ways you have less than 100 of them you main jeep still remains the UAZ and LADA NIVA

You SA-2 did not shoot down the F-117 its was shot down by AA-Guns firing widely on the air STOP LyING and twisting the story we all know you a Liar BTW Albania also has SA-2

as for the SA-6 they are great but you only have 50 left as of 2004 but yes it will give you good protection
i typed t-55h in google and that came up it looks like a t-55 but its my bad, the sa-6 shot the f-117 not the aa gun those things are useless and serbia has only the old **** one which cant shot down a helicopter if they tried it was an sa6 americans admited to it so should you. in wikipedia it says serbia had converted many of its t-55 to vih-munga about 500 and the rest to t-55h
but i have no idea wikipedia is somtimes wrong

[serb08]

http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm

[Gon4z]

http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm

My BAD I only remember what I heard on the news at the time about it being hit with AA-guns never really read bout it after that guess I forgot or something or probably because Internet and computers were very new to people in 1999 and because I was still in Kosova and didn’t have interned but was thinking how not to get killed :roflmao3:

[arctic_snake]

with the help of Turkey albania crash the serbia

[Gon4z]

i typed t-55h in google and that came up it looks like a t-55 but its my bad, the sa-6 shot the f-117 not the aa gun those things are useless and serbia has only the old **** one which cant shot down a helicopter if they tried it was an sa6 americans admited to it so should you. in wikipedia it says serbia had converted many of its t-55 to vih-munga about 500 and the rest to t-55h
but i have no idea wikipedia is somtimes wrong

No A T-55H looks totally different it this is a T-55H, but OK I can see that you put that photo by accident because when I type T-55H that photo also came up.

No you only have around 200 VIU-55 Munja and that’s not a tank ist a engineering IFV and around 100 T-55H the rest are all T-55A and if Serbia does not sucede into selling them they will have to scrap most of them and the rest of te good ones tunr them into VIU-55 Munja engineering IFV
and yes wikipedia is sometimes wrong.

T-55H = 100 units
http://stef124.tripod.com/t55-h2.jpg

VIU-55 Munja engineering IFV = 210 units
http://members.lycos.co.uk/oklop/munja.JPG

[Gon4z]

with the help of Turkey albania crash the serbia

INSHALLAH :smile1:

[serb08]

you albanians think that serbia cant fight a war anymore when we got out of kosovo and moved towards great serbia we left in style only a couple of tanks, trucks and apc were destoyed lol and you guys think you can come back today and destroy serbia like in 2 seconds.

[Gon4z]

hahahah only a couple of tanks ahahahhahahah left in style ahahhaa

people were spiting and throwing stones on your soldiers and all your soldiers were doing is putting their middle fingers up at them… YEP real style

Here is the truth


Serbian Strengh

75,000 Military
25,000 Police/MUP
10,000 Para militants (Cetniks/Arkans Tigers/and forren volunteers)

Serbian Casualties

3,000 Military and Police forces confirmed by Serbia
4,000 Para militants identified aproximatly
1,000 Civilians

150,000 Refugees



Albanian Strengh

20,000 UCK/KLA
5,000 Mostly Mujahdeens also Bosniaks and Croats and a small number of Germans Italians and other nationalities

Albanian Casualties

4,000 KLA and other fighters maximum (other figures as low as 2,500
20,000 Civilians +5000 missing

650,000 Refugees



Destroyed Serbian ARMOUR by KLA April 1997 - April 1999

M36 = 5
T-34 = 9
T-55 = 19
M84A = 11

M80A = 15
M60P = 18
BOV = 12

Praga = 3
ZU-57 = 2




Captured Serbian ARMOUR by KLA April 1997 - April 1999

T-34 = 2
T-55 = 6
M84A = 3

M80A = 7
M60P = 11
BOV = 9

Praga = 2

All returned to Serbian forces after KFOR entered as part of the Rambouillet informal agreement


4,000 KLA and other fighters maximum (other figures as low as 2,500)
7,000+ dead Serbs and pro Serb fighters that’s style

All other losses of armour aircraft or life on top of that is awarded to NATO all those presented is awarded to KLA apart from the Serbian Civilian death toll most of those civilian deaths were committed by Albanian Civilians when people were having shoot outs in the city streets about 90% of those deaths were a result of street shoot-outs the other 10% the KLA is responsible and NATO when they were bombing Kosova widely in may 1999
people might remember when NATO hit a convoy of Albanian refugees on their TRACTORS... NATO said they thought it was a Serb military convoy... Yeah right

So Your casualties are way over 1000 as admitted by your own government so stop posting lies :smile1:

[Gon4z]

And lets not even talk about truck back in 2000 you could see hundreds of them destroyed on the side of roads KLA captured hundreds of trucks like that most of them are in Albania an other went to Macedonia during the 2001 conflict we captured tons of small weaponry from your magazines in south Kosova after the battle of Koshar that where your main armories were in case of war with Albania

[Gon4z]

I never said Serbia cant fight and I never said Serbia is weak I just said its much weaker than it was in the 90's and Serbs underestimate their enemys tahts why they louse every war for the last 1000 yaers of tm living in balkans I never said Serbia cant fight and I never said Serbia is weak I just said its much weaker than it was in the 90's and Serbs underestimate their enemies that’s why they louse every war for the last 1000 years of tm living in Balkans

No not in 2 seconds more like 5

[max]

Serbia will crush gipsy albania.
Turkey can do nothing, because atomic power Russia is behind Serbia.
And of course, albanians will beg americans to help them. Just as they did it before.. ;)

[serb08]

true turkey will rather stay low than join albania then it will give russia the go ahead to bomb albania.

[serb08]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSnSkD_eTgY#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE41EtCv8Is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2dpr5XmrJE&mode=related&search=
if your a serb watch this one funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kct3nLZSBYE&mode=related&search=#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kct3nLZSBYE&mode=related&search=#

[Gon4z]

Serbia will crush gipsy albania.
Turkey can do nothing, because atomic power Russia is behind Serbia.
And of course, albanians will beg americans to help them. Just as they did it before.. ;)

Humm automatic if Russia gets involved so will NATO so either way Serbia is ****ed but by at the end of the Day Albanians have Turkey Iran and all Muslim countries behind them and even the west because of Russia, and Serbia only Has Russia and China doesn’t really give a fcuk to get involved.

Serbia and you can only lick our balls nothing else, NOP Americans intervened for the same reason they did in Bosnia to save the Serbs from getting kicked out all together from our lands, USA saved Republica Serbska and the remaining 130,000 Serbs in Kosova the good thing is if Kosova gets independence over 30% of Serbs living in Kosova have said they will move out so that will bring the total amount of Serbs in Kosova less then 80,000 and by 2010 more will leave and there will never be more than 50,000 Serbs in Kosova

[V.I.P]

if a war will start between albania and sebia who will win ???

i will win :p

[Gon4z]

true turkey will rather stay low than join albania then it will give russia the go ahead to bomb albania.

Hahhahah yeah Russia bomb Albania I wonder who are they gonna fly from Russia all the way to Albania don’t think any of the EU nation are gonna let them I mean since now there are NATO bases in nations like ROMANIA and Bulgaria and all other states surrounding Albania and Serbia

And no nation will get involved directly Turkey Iran and all other Muslim and western nations will supply finance and train the Albanians whilst Russia will do the same with Serbia it will be a PROXY WAR if you know what that is

Ohh and even if they manage to fly to Albania they will have to also face the NATO forces that will be stationed there, face it Russia will never take any military action against Albanian they only thing they can do is support you politically and with weapons but even that will be hard now since you will have NATO forces along side all our borders and you are not gonna be getting arms through Croatia Bosnia Hungary or Bulgaria because non of those nations like you Macedonia and Montenegro will never agree they want to join NATO and EU so they wouldn’t jeopardize that by braking the law when you are under arms embargo so who you left with is through ROMANIA and even through there it will be hard since NATO are stationed there and will be keeping a very close eye so your other option is by AIR and even that way Russia cant bring you heavy weaponry like that only small arms and who know if any of those countries will allow Russian military transport aircraft fly other their airspace and if Serbia gets sanctioned then no flights in or out MATY, YOU REALLY need think this through and not just CHAT SH*T

Ohh and Turkey wasn’t really scared of Russia in the first war when they were one of the countries that helped us the most after them was Saudi Arabia Iran UAE Syria & Egypt

[Gon4z]

Ohh yea and RUSSIA the same country that was supporting Serbia during the 90's against Albanians is the same Russia who was selling arms to the KLA

That just shows that Russia LOVE MONEY OVER SERBIA and even today it still sells arms to the AKSH the secret unofficial successor of the KLA and even if war brakes out it will still sell arms to the KLA and unlike you we can bring them to the battle field because we have a coast where we don’t need o ship it through countries straight from Russia through the black sea and to Albania and from Albania by trains to Kosova so the arms we buy we can bring them to the battle field within 5 days but you it will take you months because you will have to smuggle it in small amounts and through a different roots every time ohh and you will rarely smuggle in any heavy weaponry like tanks

[Mujahid786]

serbia will murder albania. Albania doesnt even have an airforce. (i mean it they have no combat aircraft)

[Gon4z]

serbia will murder albania. Albania doesnt even have an airforce. (i mean it they have no combat aircraft)

Yes we do we just dont fly them we have 220x Mig-19/Mig-17 & Mig-15 we also have 12x Mig-21 and out of those 150 of them are in good condition but we choose not to fly them because there is no point unlike Serbia who operate 70 fighter jets but cant afford enough fuel to give their pilots even 20 hours a year flying time and its not about jets because both Albania and Serbia have old jets Albania has invested in air defense so we have more SAM Rockets than Serbs have jets

[serb08]

Hahhahah yeah Russia bomb Albania I wonder who are they gonna fly from Russia all the way to Albania don’t think any of the EU nation are gonna let them I mean since now there are NATO bases in nations like ROMANIA and Bulgaria and all other states surrounding Albania and Serbia

And no nation will get involved directly Turkey Iran and all other Muslim and western nations will supply finance and train the Albanians whilst Russia will do the same with Serbia it will be a PROXY WAR if you know what that is

Ohh and even if they manage to fly to Albania they will have to also face the NATO forces that will be stationed there, face it Russia will never take any military action against Albanian they only thing they can do is support you politically and with weapons but even that will be hard now since you will have NATO forces along side all our borders and you are not gonna be getting arms through Croatia Bosnia Hungary or Bulgaria because non of those nations like you Macedonia and Montenegro will never agree they want to join NATO and EU so they wouldn’t jeopardize that by braking the law when you are under arms embargo so who you left with is through ROMANIA and even through there it will be hard since NATO are stationed there and will be keeping a very close eye so your other option is by AIR and even that way Russia cant bring you heavy weaponry like that only small arms and who know if any of those countries will allow Russian military transport aircraft fly other their airspace and if Serbia gets sanctioned then no flights in or out MATY, YOU REALLY need think this through and not just CHAT SH*T

Ohh and Turkey wasn’t really scared of Russia in the first war when they were one of the countries that helped us the most after them was Saudi Arabia Iran UAE Syria & Egypt
russia doesent need to bomb you from the air they have submarines, aircraft carrriers, warships uuse your brain

[serb08]

Ohh yea and RUSSIA the same country that was supporting Serbia during the 90's against Albanians is the same Russia who was selling arms to the KLA

That just shows that Russia LOVE MONEY OVER SERBIA and even today it still sells arms to the AKSH the secret unofficial successor of the KLA and even if war brakes out it will still sell arms to the KLA and unlike you we can bring them to the battle field because we have a coast where we don’t need o ship it through countries straight from Russia through the black sea and to Albania and from Albania by trains to Kosova so the arms we buy we can bring them to the battle field within 5 days but you it will take you months because you will have to smuggle it in small amounts and through a different roots every time ohh and you will rarely smuggle in any heavy weaponry like tanks
every country does illegal wepon selling serbs sold weponds to iraq and helped repair there migs we got in trouble by the uk telling us if it was serbian arms that killed there soldiers where in trouble sanction or no sanctions wepons still get around serbia has 2 mi-24 helicopter and nobody even knows how we got them russia might sell wepons to kla but it dosent bother serbs russians are sneaky bastards and i know that

[Gon4z]

russia doesent need to bomb you from the air they have submarines, aircraft carrriers, warships uuse your brain

Umm no I used my brain and explained to you all the possible out comes and 99.9999999999999999999999% Serbia will never bomb Albania not for its own agendas and let alone for Serbia

all they can do is launch cruise missiles but for that they will have to get close to Albania and that’s the Adriatic sea and if that’s the case NATO will have full protection of Albania by stationing troops there just to piss Russia off and the Adriatic is always patrolled by US and NATO ships another way is using ballistic missiles but they will never ever ever ever do that you think Russia will nuke Albania for you I get real even if war happens Albania will never be involved directly you will be fighting in Kosova war in Kosova they will somewhat allow but you occupying Albania another country Is not allowed in any circumstances and not even Russia can back you then

[Gon4z]

every country does illegal wepon selling serbs sold weponds to iraq and helped repair there migs we got in trouble by the uk telling us if it was serbian arms that killed there soldiers where in trouble sanction or no sanctions wepons still get around serbia has 2 mi-24 helicopter and nobody even knows how we got them russia might sell wepons to kla but it dosent bother serbs russians are sneaky bastards and i know that

Humm you buy weapons from the Russian MAFI and who is Russia MAFI closet allies Albanian MAFI not because they like each other but because they are both equally strong so its in their interest to work together instead of fighting each other so now go and see the only 2 mafias in Africa are Albanian & Russian and they both sell weapons to the Africans so hat mean we have plenty of connection and we can get what ever we want Russian would sell their own mother if you offer them a good price

Your Mi-24 are not operational and there are over 2500 Mi-24’s in the world operated by 50 countries & other users world wide you can get one for the same price as a BMW so don’t be to exited with those 2 Mi-24’s that your country purchased in the back market and that were used by your police because if war happens we can get more weapons from the Russian that you will be waiting for free donations from them so you’ll get he crappie stuff will pay cash so we get the good stuff and yes I never said they don’t but it will be harder for you than us because Albania will not be under sanctions but you

[serb08]

Humm you buy weapons from the Russian MAFI and who is Russia MAFI closet allies Albanian MAFI not because they like each other but because they are both equally strong so its in their interest to work together instead of fighting each other so now go and see the only 2 mafias in Africa are Albanian & Russian and they both sell weapons to the Africans so hat mean we have plenty of connection and we can get what ever we want Russian would sell their own mother if you offer them a good price

Your Mi-24 are not operational and there are over 2500 Mi-24’s in the world operated by 50 countries & other users world wide you can get one for the same price as a BMW so don’t be to exited with those 2 Mi-24’s that your country purchased in the back market and that were used by your police because if war happens we can get more weapons from the Russian that you will be waiting for free donations from them so you’ll get he crappie stuff will pay cash so we get the good stuff and yes I never said they don’t but it will be harder for you than us because Albania will not be under sanctions but you
russia is going to sell you wepons like guns they will never give you tanks, helicopter and again serbia does not give a **** if russia gives you wepons or not because russia are just sneaky bastards and serbia knows that .tadic knows it they are helping us in kosovo for there own priorty not for serbia.

[serb08]

http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssa52917og6.jpg

[Gon4z]

russia is going to sell you wepons like guns they will never give you tanks, helicopter and again serbia does not give a **** if russia gives you wepons or not because russia are just sneaky bastards and serbia knows that .tadic knows it they are helping us in kosovo for there own priorty not for serbia.

Yes exactly for the same reason USA/NATO is helping us its not because they like us and hate you its because they hate Russia and since Russia is supporting you for their agenda us supports us for theirs.
And a tank is cheaper to get in Russia than a BMW and the Russian mafia/government don’t care who they sell to and what they sell to them Bosniaks sneaked in Bosnia 40 T-72 back during the war bough from Russia

[Relikt]

And what is point of your small war?
I ask you both?

History of balkans wa always write by world big powers.

And both of you talk nonsense. Serb08 talking about our airforce which in such bad shape, M-84 which we have isnt nothing special without Kontakt-5 ERA and I am not sure that we have even 20 tanks with ERA, if we go in Albania with tanks without ERA every mountain narrows or city could be dead trap. Why? Albanian could get modern ATGM systems and kick *** of upgraded T-72, that was happen in Bosnia TOW kill couple of M-84 easy.

And Gon4z what is that nonsense about USA save Serbs in Bosnia? After our offensive stop USA help Bosnian muslim army join with Croatian bosnian army (supported by units of Croatian regular army) by USAF air strikes on field HQ, jamming communications and intel data to launch effective counter offensive. When it stoped? When US ambassador called Milosevic to ask him why there are movement of troops inside Serbia and get info that Serbia isnt feel safe and if Banjaluka fall Serbia would join in war(which was normal reaction because Tudjman talk about taking Belgrade, muslim generals talk about liberation of Sandzak which were all parts of ancient Serbia payed by Serbian blood in WW1 to get back in Serbia)After that move of Milosevic USA knew that they cant any more control him.
We dont need to forget that Milosevic impose sanctions to Bosnian Serbs in 1994 and support was much smaller during 1994 and 1995.
If Serbia join the war it would became very long war which USA and EU didnt want. This is why they force all three sides to Dayton.

Also I saw on net pictures of Albanian aircrafts man they are in worse condition than ours, in fact Albanian airforce will only have helicopters and sky will be protected by Italy for which Albania would pay less money than to have its own airforce. Serbia cant do that because it is much bigger country and it would be more expensive that to have 10 operational Mig-29.

[serb08]

dude our mig 21 are 50 years old, our G-4 are preety **** and got out performed by a ****y american fighter our only goodd thing is the mig29, mi-24 and gazelles we have no fuel and only two transport planes AN-26 until our mig-29 are done with repair and the 2 mi24 come back with the an-26 and the couple of mi-8 and we get rid of mig-21 and at least upgrade the G-4 to G-4m and leave the J-22 then maybe it will be a better airforce and the m84 can kick t-72 *** it was proven in the gulf war where they took down m84 with no problem and out ran a m1 abram

[TMK]

Well militarily Serbia is stronger then Albania, but that doesnt necessarily mean that they would win in a war. First of all, the geographic position Albania has would never allow for a Serbian invasion because Albania is the most mountainous region in the whole of Europe, especially near the Kosova - Albania border. Secondarily, there are no easy routes where the Serb ground forces could easily advance into Albanian territory. The only area Serbia could dominate is the air with their Mig-29s given that they have been overhauled. But then again, 4 Mig-29 is a very small number.
Somehow, i dont see the tanks playing a major role in a war like that since there is no good roads leading to Albania and they would definitely struggle up the hill.

[serb08]

you got a good point to albania it is covered mostly in rough terrain forest and moutains guess that heavy tanks will have problems getting in the mig29 will not have airsuperioty becuase we are lacking numbers so it up to the j-22 and mig 21 but they will be matched with albanian chinese type mig21 it turn more into guriella warfare then an allout war but to dominate serbia you need to get to belgrade and where along way form the border

[Gon4z]

And what is point of your small war?
I ask you both?

History of balkans wa always write by world big powers.

And both of you talk nonsense. Serb08 talking about our airforce which in such bad shape, M-84 which we have isnt nothing special without Kontakt-5 ERA and I am not sure that we have even 20 tanks with ERA, if we go in Albania with tanks without ERA every mountain narrows or city could be dead trap. Why? Albanian could get modern ATGM systems and kick *** of upgraded T-72, that was happen in Bosnia TOW kill couple of M-84 easy.

And Gon4z what is that nonsense about USA save Serbs in Bosnia? After our offensive stop USA help Bosnian muslim army join with Croatian bosnian army (supported by units of Croatian regular army) by USAF air strikes on field HQ, jamming communications and intel data to launch effective counter offensive. When it stoped? When US ambassador called Milosevic to ask him why there are movement of troops inside Serbia and get info that Serbia isnt feel safe and if Banjaluka fall Serbia would join in war(which was normal reaction because Tudjman talk about taking Belgrade, muslim generals talk about liberation of Sandzak which were all parts of ancient Serbia payed by Serbian blood in WW1 to get back in Serbia)After that move of Milosevic USA knew that they cant any more control him.
We dont need to forget that Milosevic impose sanctions to Bosnian Serbs in 1994 and support was much smaller during 1994 and 1995.
If Serbia join the war it would became very long war which USA and EU didnt want. This is why they force all three sides to Dayton.

Also I saw on net pictures of Albanian aircrafts man they are in worse condition than ours, in fact Albanian airforce will only have helicopters and sky will be protected by Italy for which Albania would pay less money than to have its own airforce. Serbia cant do that because it is much bigger country and it would be more expensive that to have 10 operational Mig-29.

I’am not saying they liked you I’am saying USA& EU did not want the Serbs to get kicked out of Bosnia all together so they stopped the war which worked out in Serbia’s favor because Serbs got to form R.S.
But I do agree with you in most things you are a very good person that sees reality so I got respect for you and yes we have TOW 2 launchers and Yes 85% of our country is mountains and forests the only flat land we have is in our coast.
No Italy does and will not protect our air space both Italy and Turkey offered it but we didn’t want it we only operate helicopters yes its true around 40 – 50 of them but at time of war we can make operational 150 of our original 250 fighter jets most of the ones in bad conditions have either been scraped or been left to decompose whilst the ones that can fly and are in OK condition like our Mig-19 and F-7 and some of our Mig-25 & 17 we will keep them in bunkers and can be made operational within 32 hours if needed but that does not matter because this war will not be fought with air weaponry neither Serbia or Albania will carry out any major air strikes on each other

[Gon4z]

dude our mig 21 are 50 years old, our G-4 are preety **** and got out performed by a ****y american fighter our only goodd thing is the mig29, mi-24 and gazelles we have no fuel and only two transport planes AN-26 until our mig-29 are done with repair and the 2 mi24 come back with the an-26 and the couple of mi-8 and we get rid of mig-21 and at least upgrade the G-4 to G-4m and leave the J-22 then maybe it will be a better airforce and the m84 can kick t-72 *** it was proven in the gulf war where they took down m84 with no problem and out ran a m1 abram

Your air force general said the Mig-21 will be flying until at least 2016 so I don’t think you will be retiring tem any time soon and the M84 is better than a T-72 I think that as weal and the Gazelles are your best helicopters and it’s a very good helicopter in general

[Gon4z]

Well militarily Serbia is stronger then Albania, but that doesnt necessarily mean that they would win in a war. First of all, the geographic position Albania has would never allow for a Serbian invasion because Albania is the most mountainous region in the whole of Europe, especially near the Kosova - Albania border. Secondarily, there are no easy routes where the Serb ground forces could easily advance into Albanian territory. The only area Serbia could dominate is the air with their Mig-29s given that they have been overhauled. But then again, 4 Mig-29 is a very small number.
Somehow, i dont see the tanks playing a major role in a war like that since there is no good roads leading to Albania and they would definitely struggle up the hill.

Well today Serbia is stronger in some fields when it comes to fighter jets they have operational one we don’t but we have better helicopters and also we have better fuel standards them, ground well yes their m84 have an advantage to our tanks but we at least have our 105x T-62 to try and match their M84 but other tanks they have are exactly the same as ours so its even there they have better IFV so that their advantage we only have 20x BMP IFV and around 1000 APC’s they have 500x IFV and 200 APC.
The war would be fought on Kosova land Serbia could never enter Albania we have over 750,000 Bunkers and 85% of Albania is mountainous the Mig-29 will return to Serbia spring 2008 as I have posted in their thread

If war break out between Albania and Serbia the battle will be fought in KOSOVA not Albania and only ALLAH/GOD determines the results of wars/battles but we can help Allah/god determine them in our favor by using military and strategically tactics because god wont let you win the war with out trying

[Gon4z]

you got a good point to albania it is covered mostly in rough terrain forest and moutains guess that heavy tanks will have problems getting in the mig29 will not have airsuperioty becuase we are lacking numbers so it up to the j-22 and mig 21 but they will be matched with albanian chinese type mig21 it turn more into guriella warfare then an allout war but to dominate serbia you need to get to belgrade and where along way form the border

Your Mig-21 are better than our Chinese ones so you might have a slight advantage there but you will have a bigger advantage because we only have 12x Mig-21 and you have 23 but it has been proven that a Mig-19 can out perform a Mig-21 in a dog fight and we can make 50x of them operational in time of war but like I said this will not be an air war because both Albania and Serbia have good air defense so it will be a pointless thing both sides will louse their aircraft for no reason.
Not necessarily you don’t have to get Beograd the war like I said will be fought in Kosova right so Albania is safe and all Albania has to do is send the KLA to fight outside Kosova in places like Preshevo valley, Medvegja, Kurshumli, Sandjak, Nis where so when fighting starts behind the Serbian defensive line then you are kind of screwed because you will be caught in a sandwich and KLA will have a minimum of 25,000 soldiers even more if they fight in sandjak because Bosniaks will join and other forren volunteers like Mujahadeens and if fighting starts in sandjak then Bosnia will not stand for it and Serbs in R.S. will try and take advantage to gain more land in Bosnia and brake always to join Serbia so it will result into one hell of a mess the Albanians will also start fighting in Macedonia so we are looking at a BIG BALKANIK war if not another World War and like I said only ALLAH/GOD will determines who WINS

[Gon4z]

Okay now boys lets think of more peace full solution....

DO YOU REMEBER WHEN WE WERE LIKE THIS..... hahahhaha

[McZee]

The question should be, who would care?

[Gon4z]

The question should be, who would care?
Some but not enough

[serb08]

Your Mig-21 are better than our Chinese ones so you might have a slight advantage there but you will have a bigger advantage because we only have 12x Mig-21 and you have 23 but it has been proven that a Mig-19 can out perform a Mig-21 in a dog fight and we can make 50x of them operational in time of war but like I said this will not be an air war because both Albania and Serbia have good air defense so it will be a pointless thing both sides will louse their aircraft for no reason.
Not necessarily you don’t have to get Beograd the war like I said will be fought in Kosova right so Albania is safe and all Albania has to do is send the KLA to fight outside Kosova in places like Preshevo valley, Medvegja, Kurshumli, Sandjak, Nis where so when fighting starts behind the Serbian defensive line then you are kind of screwed because you will be caught in a sandwich and KLA will have a minimum of 25,000 soldiers even more if they fight in sandjak because Bosniaks will join and other forren volunteers like Mujahadeens and if fighting starts in sandjak then Bosnia will not stand for it and Serbs in R.S. will try and take advantage to gain more land in Bosnia and brake always to join Serbia so it will result into one hell of a mess the Albanians will also start fighting in Macedonia so we are looking at a BIG BALKANIK war if not another World War and like I said only ALLAH/GOD will determines who WINS
Well if republic of srpska which is under pressure to join BIH and macedonia get involved it will not be so good for you guys you will have both maso and serbs attacking serbs from the north and maso from the the west and it is possible for us to get into albania and albanians to get into serbia its who ever goes down first and you would be expecting missiles to be landing into each others cities and serbs have Frogs rember

[serb08]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Luna_m_frog_7_hameenlinna_2.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Luna_m_frog_7_hameenlinna_2.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/M-87_Orkan-Srbija.jpg

[serb08]

Okay now boys lets think of more peace full solution....

DO YOU REMEBER WHEN WE WERE LIKE THIS..... hahahhaha
lol Nice...............

[serb08]

and dont forget serbia has about 7 an-26 seen them on google earth lined up

[Gon4z]

and dont forget serbia has about 7 an-26 seen them on google earth lined up

Yes you do have 6 or 7 AN-26 but only 2 are in service the other are used for spare parts for those two that’s why your AN-26 are the aircraft in the greatest Shape of the Serbian air force

[Gon4z]

Well if republic of srpska which is under pressure to join BIH and macedonia get involved it will not be so good for you guys you will have both maso and serbs attacking serbs from the north and maso from the the west and it is possible for us to get into albania and albanians to get into serbia its who ever goes down first and you would be expecting missiles to be landing into each others cities and serbs have Frogs rember

We proved we can keep Macedonia in a leash with no more than 5000 KLA members so Macedonia is not to much of a problem whilst R.S. will be fighting inside Bosnia which will have nothing to do with us but you and if they louse R.S. then that means that the fighting will spared inside Serbia as well and if we get your soldiers in Sandwich again fighting will spared in Serbia.
Yep Albanians Also have long rage missiles, SS-N-2 / FROG-5 & FROG-7 also SCUD-D and many MRLS but neither your or our MRLS can reach any of our major cities but our long range missiles can.

[Relikt]

No SCUDs would be use. No airforce nothing. EU wouldnt allow any another war in countries which they see as next members.

[Gon4z]

No SCUDs would be use. No airforce nothing. EU wouldnt allow any another war in countries which they see as next members.

Well they will try not to allow it but they are not GOD they cant control everything if both Serbia and Albania tell them to Fcuk off then there is not much they can do they cant get involved militarily

[Relikt]

Our both countries are in such nice shape that they cant fight any standard war. To me only what kind of war (if Kosovo is under our control) would be artillery fire from both sides similar to Kashmir war. I already said that Albania is tough mountain land and you have one million bunkers too.

[Gon4z]

Our both countries are in such nice shape that they cant fight any standard war. To me only what kind of war (if Kosovo is under our control) would be artillery fire from both sides similar to Kashmir war. I already said that Albania is tough mountain land and you have one million bunkers too.

Exactly but The went cant strop a war from happening

[serb08]

Our both countries are in such nice shape that they cant fight any standard war. To me only what kind of war (if Kosovo is under our control) would be artillery fire from both sides similar to Kashmir war. I already said that Albania is tough mountain land and you have one million bunkers too.
dont worry im sure that the serbian military can advance into albania we are not stupid to launch short range artillery fire to hit little villages serbian military left kosovo in 99 hardly scratched we were capable of fighting a war back then so we are more capable now as long as there are 100 000 serbian troops ready to fight we can fight a stantard war with albania its not like they are any power

[Gon4z]

dont worry im sure that the serbian military can advance into albania we are not stupid to launch short range artillery fire to hit little villages serbian military left kosovo in 99 hardly scratched we were capable of fighting a war back then so we are more capable now as long as there are 100 000 serbian troops ready to fight we can fight a stantard war with albania its not like they are any power

you cant say hardly scratched I posted your losses earlier but even though you suffered those losses you can still fight a war but I don’t thing it will be easily fro you to advance into Albania you are going to shell from Kurshumli and Sandjak and your shell wont ever reach the border your long range rockets can go same as ours you can hit our northern towns we can hit your southern towns Nis, Kralevo Novi pazaer...etc and Albania has 55,000 active soldiers we can make 250,000 active within 48 hours at time of war and another 700,000 within 2 weeks and Albania is a power enough power to defend its self from its neighbors but what you seem to have a hard time comprehending is that you will never enter Albania you will fight Albania in Kosova.

Your FROG-7 have a max range of 45 miles/70 km our SCUD-C have a range of 400 miles/600km so we can hit Beograd easily and we have over 10 SCUD batteries, you cant hit Tirana with your FROG’s youd be lucking if you can even get KUKS and that’s if you launch your frogs from Novi Pazar ot north Kosova. Unless you have anything else that goes further than your FROG’s then you can’t really make it rain shells on Albania and as far as I know you don’t.

[serb08]

you cant say hardly scratched I posted your losses earlier but even though you suffered those losses you can still fight a war but I don’t thing it will be easily fro you to advance into Albania you are going to shell from Kurshumli and Sandjak and your shell wont ever reach the border your long range rockets can go same as ours you can hit our northern towns we can hit your southern towns Nis, Kralevo Novi pazaer...etc and Albania has 55,000 active soldiers we can make 250,000 active within 48 hours at time of war and another 700,000 within 2 weeks and Albania is a power enough power to defend its self from its neighbors but what you seem to have a hard time comprehending is that you will never enter Albania you will fight Albania in Kosova.

Your FROG-7 have a max range of 45 miles/70 km our SCUD-C have a range of 400 miles/600km so we can hit Beograd easily and we have over 10 SCUD batteries, you cant hit Tirana with your FROG’s youd be lucking if you can even get KUKS and that’s if you launch your frogs from Novi Pazar ot north Kosova. Unless you have anything else that goes further than your FROG’s then you can’t really make it rain shells on Albania and as far as I know you don’t.
ok so you can hit belgrade last time nato pounded belgrade and we still stood high your scuds will make some damage but not much and you cannot predict where war will be fought and you are not the only one who can pull 700 000troops put of there *** you underestimate serbia

[serb08]

http://www.defence.co.kr/bbs/data/landarms5/1-oganj.jpg
M-77 'Oganj' modified rocket motor for existing rockets which increases max range form 50 to 75 km
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/orkan5.jpg
M-87 Orkan

[serb08]

http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/orkan7.jpg
Orkan2

[serb08]

http://www.defence.co.kr/bbs/data/landarms5/1-oganj-dejstvo.jpg

[serb08]

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wmd/ballistic/ballistic/frog-7b_003.jpg

[Gon4z]

ok so you can hit belgrade last time nato pounded belgrade and we still stood high your scuds will make some damage but not much and you cannot predict where war will be fought and you are not the only one who can pull 700 000troops put of there *** you underestimate serbia

I know we are not the only one to pull 1 million troops buts we also have tons and tons of chemical weapons that we still didn’t get rid of and if we see that we are lousing the war what reason is there stopping us from using them in every major city of Serbia

[Gon4z]

Most of our MRL's may be from the 50's and 60's era but they still go long range and are all based on Zil 131 trucks the newest variants we have from the 70's and 80's are the BM-21 based on a URAL & Type 63/87 based on (some other unknown truck)

Albanian MRL

BM-13 132mm
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/afghanistan/Afg-BM13-Mujahedin-DaniellaCarlsson.jpg
http://henk.fox3000.com/Icm/72571.jpg

BM-14 140mm
http://henk.fox3000.com/Icm/72581.jpg

BM-21 122mm
http://www.wp.mil.pl/pliki/Image/obrazki_do_stron/strona_144_bm.21.jpg

BM-24 240mm
http://henk.fox3000.com/Icm/72591.jpg

BM-25 250mm

BM-31 300mm
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/galleries/rocket/BM_31_12_pic1.jpg

BMD-20 200mm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bmd-20.gif

Type 63 107mm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T81-107-1.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T81-107-2.jpg

Type 63 130mm
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T63-130-1.jpg

Type 82 130mm
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T82-130-1.jpg
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T82-130-2.jpg

longe range rockets

Scud-B ----- 600km range
http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/bcmt/images/images_lg/scud-b.jpg

FROG-5 ----- 61km range (Based on a PT-76 body )
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/ru_missile_frog05_01.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/ru_missile_frog05_03.jpg

[Gon4z]

Also Albania’s NAVAL Cruise missiles the SS-N-2/P-15U Termit with a range of 80km (its technically an anti ship missile but can be used as Naval to surface role)
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/navalmissile/sy11.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/SS-N-2_Styx.jpg/800px-SS-N-2_Styx.jpg

[Relikt]

When guy look your posts he would think that Serbia and Albania could wipe the world :)

A.There would be that kind of war.
B. There would be any war.
C. Why?

Because our armies are so rust that noone can win in fact Albania had uperhand because of mountains. My forefathers are Montenegro highlanders and Turks learn how deadly mountain narrows can be deadly.

[Gon4z]

Mountains can be very dangerous the soviets learned that in Afghanistan especialy in the PANSHIR VELLEY

it wont be the war of te world but it will be a quiet big war bigger much bigger than the first yugoslav wars

[Relikt]

Mountains can be very dangerous the soviets learned that in Afghanistan especialy in the PANSHIR VELLEY

To solve death trap valley Soviets use new type of MLRS. It was TOS-1. Its range was only 5km but TOS-1 use T-72 body so protection was excellent. It rockets have thermobaric warhead. Good explain of thermobaric weapon I read on net: "it makes air to explode"

[Technicaldeathstrike]

wow nice pics..but those weapons are still weak against USA MLRS?

[Gon4z]

wow nice pics..but those weapons are still weak against USA MLRS?

Well we aint fightin USA are we... hehehehe
Its between Albania and Serbia and by the looks we are quiet eavnyl matched but we do have a some what upper hand in some field

[Relikt]

Gon4z here is Soviet solution for tough ground.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/TOS-1_Buratino.jpg
I think that noone survive to say how this devil works :)

P.S. there is story that bigger variant was use in 1968 to stop Chinese human wave during boarder conflict. US and China first think it was N-bomb but later when they saw TOS-1 they figure out that Soviets could use mass of those. It is unofficial and something like 70000 troopers perished.

[Technicaldeathstrike]

Well we aint fightin USA are we... hehehehe
Its between Albania and Serbia and by the looks we are quiet eavnyl matched but we do have a some what upper hand in some field

no, just I thought Hezbollah too armed those rockets but looks like not.

[Technicaldeathstrike]

Gon4z here is Soviet solution for tough ground.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/TOS-1_Buratino.jpg

cool!
is Hezbollah too arm that rocket?

[Technicaldeathstrike]

em...how to post the picture in here?

I tryied to post pictures but always banned.

[Relikt]

I say you have 53 posts so you could post picture. Why you cant I dont know.
What is most deadly with this havoc weapon isnt number of rockets but warheads in rockets. It use high tech stuff. That is thermobaric charge. As title said heat with pressure. It is capable to drain air from caves to make flat steel from light armor humvees. Russians use it Grozny in second war and before that in A-stan and possible in Sino-Soviet conflict. It is very high tech stuff and Russians are best with this kind of explosive. It was first time build by Germans but Russians give it killer edge.

[Technicaldeathstrike]

oh I understand.

[serb08]

oh to bad our friend Gonz4 is banned its not going to be fun arguing anymore

[Technicaldeathstrike]

oh to bad our friend Gonz4 is banned its not going to be fun arguing anymore

why banned?

[Gon4z]

I wasnt banned what are you on

[Gon4z]

Gon4z here is Soviet solution for tough ground.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/TOS-1_Buratino.jpg
I think that noone survive to say how this devil works :)

P.S. there is story that bigger variant was use in 1968 to stop Chinese human wave during boarder conflict. US and China first think it was N-bomb but later when they saw TOS-1 they figure out that Soviets could use mass of those. It is unofficial and something like 70000 troopers perished.

YEP I knew aboyut the TOS-1 one since I wasa litle boy the TOS-1 are great but what deos that have to do with war between Albania & Serbia

[Relikt]

YEP I knew aboyut the TOS-1 one since I wasa litle boy the TOS-1 are great but what deos that have to do with war between Albania & Serbia
Nothing. But I post picture of TOS-1 as good example of thermobaric weapon system.
We were product thermobaric shells for M84 NORA gun-howitzer.
O yes we also product copy of Maverick and we build our own laser guided bomb. Roght now there are many 10 countries in world which can product laser guided bomb. This is mostly legasy of military achievement.

M84 NORA
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/nora2.jpg

[Gon4z]

Nothing. But I post picture of TOS-1 as good example of thermobaric weapon system.
We were product thermobaric shells for M84 NORA gun-howitzer.
O yes we also product copy of Maverick and we build our own laser guided bomb. Roght now there are many 10 countries in world which can product laser guided bomb. This is mostly legasy of military achievement.

M84 NORA
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/nora2.jpg

You use to produce laser guided bombs now you produce a few now and then face it man Serbia’s main concern is not invest in that much in its army and if war happens then it will be harder for you to produce anything than it is now same will your thermobaric shells

The M84 Nora is good not that different from our Type 59
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/artillery/type59towed_130mm2l.jpg

or our TYPE 66
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/artillery/type66_152mm1l.jpg

[Gon4z]

Do you mind please putting some link of your laser guided bombs... its not that I don’t believe you or anything it’s just that I would like to read more on then coz I can find anything on google :smile1:

[Black_zero]

both will won lol....

[Hawk_nr1]

The albanians would win serbians drink too much

go to a serbian village and u will know what I'm talking about :biggrin1:

j/k but true

[Gon4z]

The albanians would win serbians drink too much

go to a serbian village and u will know what I'm talking about :biggrin1:

j/k but true

ahahhahahahahhahahah :roflmao3: :laugh4:

FUNNY....:smile1:

[serb08]

serbs drink to much yea thats an albanian sterotype

[Gon4z]

serbs drink to much yea thats an albanian sterotype

I didn’t say it, it was a British who said it and it is true, the Serbs I know are heavy drinkers even during the war you use to see the Police with whiskey and Beer bottle in theory hands drinking, apart from that back in 1999 there were so many articles one week where they found out Serbian soldiers were taking injecting Heroin.

[JanIran]

it would be a very interesting war, i have no idea who wins....

[Gon4z]

it would be a very interesting war, I have no idea who wins....

Well to bad there will never be a direct war between Albania and Serbia it will be the Kosovar Albanians with the informal backing of Albania fighting the Serbs, and that has already been done and seen, and will soon happen again within this year by the way things are cooking up.

[serb08]

dought it will happen tadic is not the president to start a war he cares to much about joining EU and NATO which i think he feels is more important then fighting. The joint goverment of kustunica and tadic was a move to stop a war ever happening if one were ever to escalate then it would come from a decision of a radical leader. the talks of waiting another six months for talks bettween kosovo and belgrade and plus russian veto will spark protests no dought bettween albanians just hope KLA dosent start moving again.

[serb08]

it would be a very interesting war, i have no idea who wins....
the strongest mate will always win the one with the most allies and money thats how war is played

[Gon4z]

dought it will happen tadic is not the president to start a war he cares to much about joining EU and NATO which i think he feels is more important then fighting. The joint goverment of kustunica and tadic was a move to stop a war ever happening if one were ever to escalate then it would come from a decision of a radical leader. the talks of waiting another six months for talks bettween kosovo and belgrade and plus russian veto will spark protests no dought bettween albanians just hope KLA dosent start moving again.

Well when it comes down to it its not up to the leaders it up to the people, the Kosova government did not want war in 1997 - 1999 but the UCK/KLA was a people movement that fought for the people without the governments will.
Same could happen again with both sides, Serbs and Albanians in Kosova, you believe that Kosova will remain under Serbia but you don’t believe war will happen it’s pretty ignorant do you think that Albanian will JUST accept living under Serbia.

Yes there is a mass protest set to take place in 30/06/2007 at the end of this month its organised by VETVENDOSJA and its bound to be a big one and more following in weeks after, and pushing it 6 months is a HELL NO for Albanians you will see, that things will only get worse as they have been doing sine February


the strongest mate will always win the one with the most allies and money thats how war is played
Yes MONEY and lots of it with out that a war cant be fought, and will comes first, with out those two no one can win a war. As for Allies well when u have money you can buy them to… lol

[serb08]

Serbian Armour
can albania really match these beasts

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/M-84_Battle_Tank_1181748195546.jpg
the rims are hot.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/T-72w.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Yu_MBT_M-84_02.jpg
the new m-84ab1 upgrade scheduled to upgrade remaining m-84 tanks all t-55 and t-72 will be scrapped or sold to help in this modernization
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/M-84AB1.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M84AB1.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/oklop/m84ab1-8.JPG
ARTILLERY
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/M-87_Orkan-Srbija.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Oganj.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:265269435MUIRmA_fs.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1e/155mm_nora-b52_01.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/Samohodna_haub.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Orkan_modification.jpg
ANTI TANK
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Bumbarkn23222de0.jpg
serbian made bumbar Single-shot hit probability more than 90%.
MILITARY TRUCKS
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/Fap.jpg

etc serbia has ordered hundreads of tucks for military7 of FAP

Infantry Weapons

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/M21S_Assault_Rifle.jpg
On the 29th of April 2004 the M21 was officially accepted by the Military of Serbia and Montenegro as the successor to its 7.62 mm firing Zastava M70/M72/M92 assault rifles.
In 2006 and 2007, Zastava M21 assault rifles were spotted in the hands of Iraqi Forces and private military contractors during the Iraq War.[3]

In late 2006, NATO has expressed its wishes to purchase M21 assault rifles from Serbia to supply to its allies
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/M93_Black_Arrow.jpg
1998 to present
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/1113198457_IMG_4440-crop.jpg
AIRDEFENCE
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Sa3a.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Sa6_1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e6/18848_1205475451_obaranje-F-117-i-F.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/18848_936600000_NEVA-11.jpg

[Iran33]

I don't think there will be any war soon between Serbian and Albania!

[Gon4z]

I don't think there will be any war soon between Serbian and Albania!

Not between Albania and Serbia but between Albanians of Kosova and Serbia that’s a definite.


and your Serb08 ill get back to you soon

[attitude]

Ive added a Poll to this thread

[Gon4z]

Albanian MRL

BM-13 132mm
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/afghanistan/Afg-BM13-Mujahedin-DaniellaCarlsson.jpg
http://henk.fox3000.com/Icm/72571.jpg

BM-14 140mm
http://henk.fox3000.com/Icm/72581.jpg

BM-21 122mm
http://www.wp.mil.pl/pliki/Image/obrazki_do_stron/strona_144_bm.21.jpg

BM-24 240mm
http://henk.fox3000.com/Icm/72591.jpg

BM-25 250mm

BM-31 300mm
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/galleries/rocket/BM_31_12_pic1.jpg

BMD-20 200mm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bmd-20.gif

Type 63 107mm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T81-107-1.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T81-107-2.jpg

Type 63 130mm
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T63-130-1.jpg

Type 82 130mm
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T82-130-1.jpg
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T82-130-2.jpg

longe range rockets

Scud-B ----- 600km range
http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/bcmt/images/images_lg/scud-b.jpg

FROG-5 ----- 61km range (Based on a PT-76 body )
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/ru_missile_frog05_01.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/ru_missile_frog05_03.jpg

[Gon4z]

Also Albania’s NAVAL Cruise missiles the SS-N-2/P-15U Termit with a range of 80km (its technically an anti ship missile but can be used as Naval to surface role)
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/navalmissile/sy11.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/SS-N-2_Styx.jpg/800px-SS-N-2_Styx.jpg

[SS_Charlemagne]

Without external help, Albania would have nothing to do against Serbia.

[Gon4z]

PT-76B = 150x
http://z15.invisionfree.com/illyria/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=5275017
http://mainbattletanks.czweb.org/Tanky/pt76.jpg

T-34/85 = 200x
http://redlionposters.com/images/C078.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/pmj6/t34-1.jpg
http://www.chrisberg.com/T34-85.JPG

T-54A = 75x
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/9556/vehicles/t54_1.jpg


T-55A = 200x
http://tietokannat.mil.fi/kalustoesittely/media/1111068300_t-55m_6.jpg
http://www.planetmodel57.com/image-0590.jpg
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5985&stc=1&d=1178059489
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5986&stc=1&d=1178059502
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5987&stc=1&d=1178059568

T-55AM2 = 100x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5979&stc=1&d=1178058916

T-62
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2666/23qq1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/151919_1.jpg
http://euroasia.cass.cn/2006Russia/Military/images/U1335P27T1D389399F319DT20060809084004.jpg


Tyupe-59-I = 750
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1868&d=1160606105
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2880&d=1163380657
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/114761_1.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3157/albarmy7ri.jpg

Type 62 = 75x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2860&d=1163379271

Type 63 = 150x
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/T-63-1.jpg

M113A2 = 130x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1851&d=1160605419
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1869&d=1160606212


Type-77 = 200x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1857&d=1160605714

IVECO Armored vehicle used by our military police = 500x
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7479/policiaushtarake3mb.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/52043_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200459_1.jpg
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5228&d=1174435346



HUMMVEE 300x + 20 in Iraq
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1916&d=1160608181
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/37297_1.jpg
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/may99/albania7.gif


Mercedes G = 300x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2869&d=1163380239
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2874&d=1163380337
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2873&d=1163380330

Landover = 200x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2870&d=1163380310
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/97848_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/3955_0.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/102248_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/102270_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/102272_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/102276_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/163111_1.jpg


120mm M-120 MORTAR = 800x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1908&d=1160607876
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1909&d=1160607974

160mm MT-13 MORTARS = 500x
http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5050/164smallgx6.jpg

82mm MORTARS and 130mm Artillery in the background = 1000x 82mm MORTARS
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1864&d=1160606031
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2883&d=1163380689


US made artillery 155mm = 50x
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/127903_1.jpg


155mm M198 = 50x
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/37296_1.jpg


152mm Type-66 = 500x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2293&d=1160941865
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2295&d=1160942024
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/132042_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/132638_1.jpg


130mm M-46 artillery
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1898&d=1160606919
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3744&d=1166938391


ZIS-3 76mm
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2292&d=1160941828


Type 79
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1865&d=1160606078
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1897&d=1160606907

S-60
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4092/453342tv.jpg

KS-12
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/99806_1.jpg


KS-18
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1845&d=1160605227

KS-19
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/KS-19-Camp- Lejeune-19890527.JPEG/403px-KS-19-Camp-Lejeune-19890527.JPEG[/IMG]


KS-30
http://www.ddrafg.com/images/Heavy%20Weapon/New%20images/ks-30.jpg


MIM-23 Hawk
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Hawk_mobile.jpg
http://venus.ci.uw.edu.pl/~animal/military.pl/syst_p_lotnicze/rakietowe/mim-23_hawk/mim-23-hawk-04.jpg
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5972&stc=1&d=1178057958

R-60 Air to Air missile fired from a ground battery
http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/r60praga2.jpg

SA-1
http://www.wonderland.org.nz/sa1-3.jpg


SA-2
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1912&d=1160608007
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/survivability/sa2.jpg


SA-7
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1862&d=1160605972
http://i1.tinypic.com/mhw029.jpg


SA-18 (“GOZHDA”) Albanian Made
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1863&d=1160605981
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1902&d=1160607700
http://www.mod.gov.al/imgs_news/23.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/mwfckm.jpg

Milan
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2882&d=1163380679

TOW-2
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2884&d=1163380707

Armburst
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8828/u14dt7.jpg

No idea what That is but apparently we have around 150x of tem
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/48282_1.jpg


HJ-8 ANTI-TANK GUIDED MISSILE
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1896&d=1160606897
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/hj8-1.jpg
http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/hj8-4.jpg
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2881&d=1163380668

AT-2
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/8/89/300px-AT-2c_Swatter.JPG

AT-3
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/669961/2/istockphoto_669961_at_3_sagger.jpg
http://www.defence.co.kr/bbs/data/guidearms4/1-at-3-sagger.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2254/zemaj423ux.jpg

AGS-17
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2867&d=1163380216


MP5A5
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1760&stc=1&d=1160510499
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3533&d=1166332806
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/6145_0.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200667_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/201013_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/201014_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200655_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200983_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/202983_1.jpg


HK G63
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2891&d=1163381134


HK G3
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1905&d=1160607826
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1906&d=1160607836
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/5896_0.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200377_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200636_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/170109_1.jpg


FN-MAG & Minim
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1855&d=1160605676
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/125453_1.jpg


M4
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200346_1.jpg

M16A2
[IMG]http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/125451_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/125454_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/125468_1.jpg


Snipers
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/102344_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/165856_1.jpg


Albanian made weapons
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1878&d=1160606359
[IMG]http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/98571_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/97803_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/98570_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/97815_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/97850_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200656_1.jpg
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/200634_1.jpg
http://www.speakeasy.org/~maly/gallery/guns/albanian_sks_right.jpg
http://www.freeexistence.org/gallery/guns/albanian_sks_left.jpg
http://www.zianet.com/kc5kto/images/reddot4.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1347/albarmy19995aq.jpg

Albanian Modified AK-47
http://imageshack.us/
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/166424_1.jpg
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=6392&d=1179861817

Our new upcoming AK-101 & 102 = 20,000 +10,000 G36
http://club.guns.ru/images/convention/11.jpg
http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/media2/ak105_060b.jpg

Military trucks
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2863&d=1163379353
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2872&d=1163380322
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=4858&stc=1&d=1172141152

MAN heavy military truck = 150x
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2876&d=1163380423

5T truck
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3527&d=1166332237


Kawasaki bike
http://www.medialb.com/forumi/foto/125450_1.jpg


Underground storage Bunkers
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2868&d=1163380229

OUR chemical weapons
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5225&d=1174435102


radars
http://www.geocities.com/albanianpilot/installation.jpg
http://sill-www.army.mil/FAMAG/online_photo_gallery/weapons%20&%20equipment/radar/slides/Q-37.jpg

[Gon4z]

Without external help, Albania would have nothing to do against Serbia.

Without Eternal help Serbia would be able to do nothing to Albania either stop making stupid remarks RUSKI.
Every country needs suppliers and international support when fighting a war.

[Gon4z]

Ive added a Poll to this thread

LoL you just want to flame this up even more don’t you.... by putting petrol to the fire. :roflmao3:

[Gon4z]

Ok you talk like its so hard to get T-72 tanks, if war starts Albanians can easily get 200 T-72 tanks from Syria they have over 1,000, you only have 2 M84AB1 and they are used for testing so YES we can match you, and your M84 are not going to be upgraded into AB1 until at least 2012 after than then there’s a possibility of you upgrading them but even then its unlikely as the AB1 upgrade is mostly intended for export.

Your T-55 are no different to ours you only have 100 T-55H and 200 T-55A the rest have all be either scraped or turned into combat engineering vehicle, the T-55A are in Storage and you only use the T-55H which are up for the sale by the way.

WE can match anything you have maybe we might be half a step behind but if the UCK/KLA managed to kick your A$$ in 1999 with nothing than the Albanian Army can defiantly kick you’re A$$

[Gon4z]

etc serbia has ordered hundreads of tucks for military7 of FAP

On the 29th of April 2004 the M21 was officially accepted by the Military of Serbia and Montenegro as the successor to its 7.62 mm firing Zastava M70/M72/M92 assault rifles.

In 2006 and 2007, Zastava M21 assault rifles were spotted in the hands of Iraqi Forces and private military contractors during the Iraq War.[3]

In late 2006, NATO has expressed its wishes to purchase M21 assault rifles from Serbia to supply to its allies

The M21 was and still is not accepted to replace the M70 rifles the M80 was accepted and has still not managed to enter full service the M21 wont be replacing anything for some time to come.

The M21 was found on the hand of one US MERCINARY in IRAQ there is only one photo you didn’t export it widely don’t get to exited.

Ummm NATO does nut purchase weapon MORRON it’s the individual counties that do STOP lying, the M21 has not entered full service if it did the whole Serbian military would be armed with them but your not you still use M70 and some M80

Serbia order 85 new FAP trucks and ordered overhauls for 150 already existing ones so no you did not order HUNDERS or Thousands of them so stole being a delusional KID

[serb08]

The M21 was and still is not accepted to replace the M70 rifles the M80 was accepted and has still not managed to enter full service the M21 wont be replacing anything for some time to come.

The M21 was found on the hand of one US MERCINARY in IRAQ there is only one photo you didn’t export it widely don’t get to exited.

Ummm NATO does nut purchase weapon MORRON it’s the individual counties that do STOP lying, the M21 has not entered full service if it did the whole Serbian military would be armed with them but your not you still use M70 and some M80

Serbia order 85 new FAP trucks and ordered overhauls for 150 already existing ones so no you did not order HUNDERS or Thousands of them so stole being a delusional KID
yes we did order about 85 with up to hundread or somethin more in the future and you dont have to worry by the time we have a war with you guys everything will be upgraded and ready. the m-84 is expecting to be converted to m84ab1 by 2010 yugiimport and zasatva are doing there job providing new technology and equipment to serbia. and its funny how you get angry when i cleary said nato has expressed it wishes to purchase and by the way they have i get some of my info of wiki im sure you do to. serbia is going for a complete proffesional army of 30-40000 soldiers when that happens m21 will be available to all soldiers and m21 have enterd production.

[serb08]

Ok you talk like its so hard to get T-72 tanks, if war starts Albanians can easily get 200 T-72 tanks from Syria they have over 1,000, you only have 2 M84AB1 and they are used for testing so YES we can match you, and your M84 are not going to be upgraded into AB1 until at least 2012 after than then there’s a possibility of you upgrading them but even then its unlikely as the AB1 upgrade is mostly intended for export.

Your T-55 are no different to ours you only have 100 T-55H and 200 T-55A the rest have all be either scraped or turned into combat engineering vehicle, the T-55A are in Storage and you only use the T-55H which are up for the sale by the way.

WE can match anything you have maybe we might be half a step behind but if the UCK/KLA managed to kick your A$$ in 1999 with nothing than the Albanian Army can defiantly kick you’re A$$
the m84ab1 is a upgrade mate meaning upgrading our arsenal of tanks serbia and a few other countries have m-84 croatia has there own upgrade pakage the m84ab1 has been made so we can upgrade our tanks becuase there is no other country that has m-84 except kuwait and a few former yugoslav countries whats the point of exporting it, its ok if there were heaps of countries with m-84s but theres not.

[serb08]

Ok you talk like its so hard to get T-72 tanks, if war starts Albanians can easily get 200 T-72 tanks from Syria they have over 1,000, you only have 2 M84AB1 and they are used for testing so YES we can match you, and your M84 are not going to be upgraded into AB1 until at least 2012 after than then there’s a possibility of you upgrading them but even then its unlikely as the AB1 upgrade is mostly intended for export.

Your T-55 are no different to ours you only have 100 T-55H and 200 T-55A the rest have all be either scraped or turned into combat engineering vehicle, the T-55A are in Storage and you only use the T-55H which are up for the sale by the way.

WE can match anything you have maybe we might be half a step behind but if the UCK/KLA managed to kick your A$$ in 1999 with nothing than the Albanian Army can defiantly kick you’re A$$
you kicked our *** ? mate you manged to do nothing the serb armed forces, looking at you pics the mrls are **** they look like there from the 60s
compare it to these
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/M-87_Orkan-Srbija.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Orkan_modification.jpg
your tanks look like crap the t-34 and t-55 againts
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/M-84_Battle_Tank_1181748195546.jpg
your sams are also inferior we have sa6 and all the big guns
the serbian airforce is much better j22 and g-4 including the mig29 which will come in about 1 year.

[serb08]

and news that kuwait has accepted croatias proposal for the m-84d good for the croats its a nice tank

[Gon4z]

yes we did order about 85 with up to hundread or somethin more in the future and you dont have to worry by the time we have a war with you guys everything will be upgraded and ready. the m-84 is expecting to be converted to m84ab1 by 2010 yugiimport and zasatva are doing there job providing new technology and equipment to serbia. and its funny how you get angry when i cleary said nato has expressed it wishes to purchase and by the way they have i get some of my info of wiki im sure you do to. serbia is going for a complete proffesional army of 30-40000 soldiers when that happens m21 will be available to all soldiers and m21 have enterd production.

Well if you are going to have a war its either 2007 or never, and you wont have the stuff even by 2010 and let alone now, read the news TENSIONS are at a all time high this month and are only getting worse by the day, Kosova’s status has been pushed to November, UCK is remobilizing, so is AKSH, Tsar lazar guarda is trying to march with a couple hundred people into Kosova Polje as a remembrance of the battle that took there "which you got slaughter in" and guess what the government is allowing it.

The M84AB1 conversion will not start until 2011 and will be finished around 2014 there will be no war then for you and only 200 will be converted Serbia will have to meet NATO standards and cut its military severely so don’t think you are going to have 1,000 M84AB1’s you wont be able to have more than 300 - 400 tanks in total.

Why the hell would I get angry about that, I don’t like because you are a liar, and this is not the first time you have posted lies go back 5 pages in this thread you posted many crap that Serbia does not have you even posted a photo of a Russian Mig claiming that it was the Serbian Mig back from the overhaul.
Ye you get info from wiki which can be edited by any MORRON, go and look at the Armenian military Article its so disputed, because vandals keeps changing it, Azeri’s lower numbers the Armenians higher then and watts worse they are both wrong and wiki admins fail to do Sh!t.

Yes I don dispute the fact that the M21 WILL be the future front line rifle of Serbia but its not now like you claimed that your military if fully equipped with M21, and it wont be until around 2010 -2012 that’s when you will have 30,000 M21 in service, just like Albania wont get its, G36 & AK-101/102 until 2009

[Gon4z]

the m84ab1 is a upgrade mate meaning upgrading our arsenal of tanks serbia and a few other countries have m-84 croatia has there own upgrade pakage the m84ab1 has been made so we can upgrade our tanks becuase there is no other country that has m-84 except kuwait and a few former yugoslav countries whats the point of exporting it, its ok if there were heaps of countries with m-84s but theres not.

Ummm.... its was started as un upgrade for KUWAIT and that failed, so now you are looking for new customers to start producing the tank around 2012 for the export market around the same time you will upgrade 200 of your own tanks.
You can easily turn T-72 into M-84AB1's

[Gon4z]

you kicked our *** ? mate you manged to do nothing the serb armed forces, looking at you pics the mrls are **** they look like there from the 60s
compare it to these
We managed to kill over 500 Serbs in KOSHAR 1999 280 KLA against 1000+ Serbian VJ/JNA & god know how many mercenaries, we killed over 4000 Serbian Soldiers and Police and over 3000 mercenaries, so yes we did a lot we also captured and destroyed several dozens of your ranks and APC/IFV
Our MRLD are old but they do the same Job, and you posting photos of your MRLS from 1991 does not make them any newer today they are over 25 years old almost as old as ours you have 5 years on us BIG deal they are freaking rockets they do the exact same job most of our MRL's are from the 70's it don’t matter.

your tanks look like crap the t-34 and t-55 againts
Again postin a photo if a T-72 from 1991 is **** crap, your M-84 are Ok you T-55 are SH!TTY, our tanks are crappie but all the crappie ones are in storage and all the good ones are in service which means we have 605 Good tanks and if we need more we can pull out another 400 crappy ones out.

Like I said T-72 are not SPERCIAL so don’t feel proud we can easily get 500x T-72 from Syria for very cheep less than $15 million so stop bragging because u have 200x M-84 we have 500 Milan & TOW-2 launchers 150x of them are installed in our HUMVEES and M113A2, and rest can be operated by our soldiers your tanks are useless and sitting duck in Albania’s and Kosova’s MONTAINES terrain



your sams are also inferior we have sa6 and all the big guns
the serbian airforce is much better j22 and g-4 including the mig29 which will come in about 1 year.

The Mig-29 wont be back until AGUST 2008 I should know I posted the sources in Serbian military thread, one for your Mig-29 is still pending overhaul because of cash shortages.
And if your read the source you will se that even after the over haul the Mig-29 wont be able to do much apart form patrol Serbia’s air space, they wont be able to handle any real combat, so don’t expect them to be turned into SU-30’s or something special they are the same old crap you had just a little better.
Your J-22 &G-4 are useless aircraft don’t be so proud the J-22 can barely break the speed barrier when its in full speed diving down towards the earth, those jets can be easily knocked down from the air by our superior SA-18 “GOZHDA” which we build our self’s and witch Serbia has inferior SA-7 into their inventory which are at least 20 years old.

Yes you have 10x SA-6 batteries, good for you, we have SA-1, SA-2, SA-5, SA-9, SA-13 & shoulder held SA-7 & SA-18 which we build our self’s, everything but the SA-1 are either superior or a exact match you your air defense so you aint got nothing on us.
Look don’t get to exited Albania has 362 kilometers long of coast line where we can smuggle in what ever we want with out any restrictions you cant you have to smuggle from land, which costs you more and takes longer and the worst part you can smuggle in high quantities, when it comes to war, we can simply because we have a coast.

And if war happens its not going to be a JET war so calm your self down we aint supper powers here.

[Gon4z]

and news that kuwait has accepted croatias proposal for the m-84d good for the croats its a nice tank
Yes good fro them & bad for you seems like their tank was better.

[serb08]

you really think the m-84d is better than an m-84ab1 and ab1 can out monevour a t-90 tank. kuwait didnt want serb m-84ab1 becuase its bassically a t-90 as 80% of the hardware needs to be imported from russia and serbs dont have the factories to make the tank rember the m-84ab1 was produced in a factorty that dosent even produce tanks but serbia is working on it.

[Gon4z]

you really think the m-84d is better than an m-84ab1 and ab1 can out monevour a t-90 tank. kuwait didnt want serb m-84ab1 becuase its bassically a t-90 as 80% of the hardware needs to be imported from russia and serbs dont have the factories to make the tank rember the m-84ab1 was produced in a factorty that dosent even produce tanks but serbia is working on it.

A M-84AB1 is a prototype and pls do prove some evidence about the M-84 out maneuvering the T-90 or it being batter in any when, I find it hard since its mainly a straight out copy of the T-90 and its build with Russian parts.

And I never said I doubted the M-84AB1 its a very good tank.

[serb08]

mate i read a lot and when i read how the m84ab1 is going on in trial it said the m-84ab1 has the ability to out monevour a t-90 like you said before t-90 and m-84ab1 same **** same hardware just like the m-84 and t-72 but the m-84 is an improved version of the t-72 thats why its better t-90 has been out for some time now and serbs have preety much copied its design and what it uses, yes it is a prototype but its only an uprgrade.

[Gon4z]

mate i read a lot and when i read how the m84ab1 is going on in trial it said the m-84ab1 has the ability to out monevour a t-90 like you said before t-90 and m-84ab1 same **** same hardware just like the m-84 and t-72 but the m-84 is an improved version of the t-72 thats why its better t-90 has been out for some time now and serbs have preety much copied its design and what it uses, yes it is a prototype but its only an uprgrade.

Just because it come out later it does not mean its better, provide some sources man don’t talk wild crap.

[serb08]

if you read what i wrote mate you will see that i was talking about the m-84 not the m84ab1 when i said about the t-90 being out for some time you will see that i am simply implying that the t-90 has been out long enough for serbs to copy its design nothing about m-84ab1 being newer

[serb08]

We managed to kill over 500 Serbs in KOSHAR 1999 280 KLA against 1000+ Serbian VJ/JNA & god know how many mercenaries, we killed over 4000 Serbian Soldiers and Police and over 3000 mercenaries, so yes we did a lot we also captured and destroyed several dozens of your ranks and APC/IFV
Our MRLD are old but they do the same Job, and you posting photos of your MRLS from 1991 does not make them any newer today they are over 25 years old almost as old as ours you have 5 years on us BIG deal they are freaking rockets they do the exact same job most of our MRL's are from the 70's it don’t matter.


Again postin a photo if a T-72 from 1991 is **** crap, your M-84 are Ok you T-55 are SH!TTY, our tanks are crappie but all the crappie ones are in storage and all the good ones are in service which means we have 605 Good tanks and if we need more we can pull out another 400 crappy ones out.

Like I said T-72 are not SPERCIAL so don’t feel proud we can easily get 500x T-72 from Syria for very cheep less than $15 million so stop bragging because u have 200x M-84 we have 500 Milan & TOW-2 launchers 150x of them are installed in our HUMVEES and M113A2, and rest can be operated by our soldiers your tanks are useless and sitting duck in Albania’s and Kosova’s MONTAINES terrain





The Mig-29 wont be back until AGUST 2008 I should know I posted the sources in Serbian military thread, one for your Mig-29 is still pending overhaul because of cash shortages.
And if your read the source you will se that even after the over haul the Mig-29 wont be able to do much apart form patrol Serbia’s air space, they wont be able to handle any real combat, so don’t expect them to be turned into SU-30’s or something special they are the same old crap you had just a little better.
Your J-22 &G-4 are useless aircraft don’t be so proud the J-22 can barely break the speed barrier when its in full speed diving down towards the earth, those jets can be easily knocked down from the air by our superior SA-18 “GOZHDA” which we build our self’s and witch Serbia has inferior SA-7 into their inventory which are at least 20 years old.

Yes you have 10x SA-6 batteries, good for you, we have SA-1, SA-2, SA-5, SA-9, SA-13 & shoulder held SA-7 & SA-18 which we build our self’s, everything but the SA-1 are either superior or a exact match you your air defense so you aint got nothing on us.
Look don’t get to exited Albania has 362 kilometers long of coast line where we can smuggle in what ever we want with out any restrictions you cant you have to smuggle from land, which costs you more and takes longer and the worst part you can smuggle in high quantities, when it comes to war, we can simply because we have a coast.

And if war happens its not going to be a JET war so calm your self down we aint supper powers here.
be realistic when i say our airforce is better your sams are good but our planes are better a j-22 has had a very promisng history low loss-rate in bosnia, croatia and they have s-300 and kosovo so they have proven themselves, our mig29 when they come back will be able to handle any war situatuation they are off coarse comming back better then when we recived them so what is there stoping from shooting a f-16 dont mind that f-16 usually like to fight in a 1:10 ratio. serbia has a big wepons deposit we can last for years untill we call russia for some wepon smuggling.

[Gon4z]

be realistic when i say our airforce is better your sams are good but our planes are better a j-22 has had a very promisng history low loss-rate in bosnia, croatia and they have s-300 and kosovo so they have proven themselves, our mig29 when they come back will be able to handle any war situatuation they are off coarse comming back better then when we recived them so what is there stoping from shooting a f-16 dont mind that f-16 usually like to fight in a 1:10 ratio. serbia has a big wepons deposit we can last for years untill we call russia for some wepon smuggling.

Your J-22 oraos had to dodge SA-7, I would like to see them dodge SA-2 which ther eis a 85% change they wont and they will get hit.
and lets not even talk about our SA-5 non of your jets will stand a change, they were made for knocking down very high altitude aircraft like the US, U-2.

You air force is good the Mig-21 as for the rest they are useless, and your air force will be totally disable after 2 year of fighting because this wont be a war of air, get that through your head.

What are you talking about the Croatia got S-300 easy after the war, in the beginning of 2000 - 2001 if Croatia had them during the war today would wont have not had any jets.

Your aircraft did not prove anything, they never went up against real SAM's because non of the other stated had any during the Yugoslav wars.

Well no matter what you say I have provided source showing you that even though your Mig-29 are being over hauled they are not expected to handle any real combat and there is a lot stopping your Mig's from shooting down a F-16C

You have weapon, BUT you don’t have CASH, and after 4 - 5 years of war, your economy will collapse and Serbs will start fighting each other.


GDP per capital = $3,500
Population under poverty line = 35%
Unemployment rate = 32%
Public dept = 54% of GDP
External dept = $16 billion
$1 = 60 dinars
Life expectancy = 72 years of age


Your economy if Fcuked as you can see sanctioning you again will really screw you right up the A-hole.

You importing weaponry will be very hard you can easily exclude any thing coming from, Hungary, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia & Bulgaria because non like or want to help you, and also most are either in NATO & EU or are aiming to get in so they wont risk anything for you, or us the only one that is left is through Romania since Serbia has good relations with them, they might risk smuggling things for you, but in a very low quantities since there are countless NATO bases in Romania and at time of war they will be also guarding the borders, another root it by air but even that way you cant bring vast amounts.
Albania has a 350km long coast so we can import things from anywhere by sea in vast amounts hundreds of tanks aircraft…etc, from Turkey, Syria, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Egypt, UAE, China & Russian. (in case your wondering don’t thin Russia will only sell to you, they don’t like you just like America does not like us they are only using us for their own agendas, Russians sell anything even their own mother for the right price)
We have a somewhat stronger economy than yours and we have a good 3 -5 years longer survival than you, we also have tones of Old crap like you so we can survive of that until we import new stuff.

[Relikt]

M-84AB1 vs. T-90S

Both have same engine, but M-84AB1 is lighter due weaken armor. So it is faster but less protection. And difference in speed isnt big. Soon T-90S will get 200 HP more power and will be faster then M-84AB1.

M-84AB1 use older autoloader incapable to use 740mm sabot. M-84 use 540mm sabot which is incapable to defeat from 1km(maybe even closer) distance armor of next tanks: M1A2, Leopard2, Challenger2, LeClerc and T-80, T-90 front.

T-90S use new autoloader capable of using 740mm sabot which is similar to modern US silver bullet. And capable to defeat armor of modern tank on 1.5km distance.

M-84AB1 have cast turret which cant use modern composite armor or perforated armor which is use in modern tanks.

T-90S have welded turret so it can have modern composite armor.

M-84AB1 is good tank but not even close to newest T-90 version.
I think Kuwait drop our offer because it is to expensive. Croatian variant I am sure is cheaper. Our upgrade for M84AB1 cost 1 mln dollars. Kuwait have 100 or more M84 tanks. So it would be >100mln $. Kuwait is planing to replace M84 and later M1 with LeClearc which is after T-90S best buy.

I dont like M84 after I see some pictures form Croatian war. One Zolja(RPG) can detonate inside turret ammo. Much better choise T-55 pack with ERA protection is better choise for urban combat.
Our upgrade T-55H:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/T-55-H.jpg
Or Iraqian Enigma command T-55 tank(it doesnt use ERA it use spaced armor so it is less capable but in GW1 it survive couple of Milan missiles):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Enigma2.jpg
Or any newer russian T-55 model. Of course all those tanks are dead agianst modern sabots and tanks but are good protected against older generation of RPG.

Gon4z were did you saw that T-72 (which is working and in good condition) can be bought for 30.000$ (15mln$/500tanks)?
Even if you find somewhere T-72 for such small price remember this one year of T-72 maintain cost is around 100.000$.

And you both are making me nuts. War will not happen. Both countries have funny armies without any capability to launch that kind of war. Also presence of big powers in this region is diferent then in '90. Today US have biggest base in Europe and this base is in Kosovo.
UCK couldnt capture KOSARE without B-52 carpet bomb runs. And still dont think that UCK lost less people then Serbian military in that battle becuse I talk with brothers of guys which were at KOSARE or near by and really sorry of UCK fighters. UCK was ready to die we werent it is simple as that.

And Gon4z why UCK is remobilizing? Your guys can wait couple of more months? Or maybe you want to clean Kosovo from remaining non-Albanians when you get indepent state? And I here on "Free europe" that Serbs will be guilty if Kosovo dont get indepence soon and that UCK will be angry and will not be reponsible for their actions. So in other words Serbs will be guilty for everything. Even when Kosovo became indepenent and without Serbs we will be still The Usual Suspects. Same story happen even today in Croatia were Serbs have less then 10% and in Bosnia. It is simplest excuse to say someone other is guilty because people live bad. Same thing happen in Serbia during sactions Milosevic and his friends allways say US and EU is guilty because our economy is dying and during sactions some folks became so rich that now they are buying Serbia.

Here is one AFP report from Kosovo:
"AFP

Elderly Serb Woman Beaten, Dragged Through Street

PRISTINA, Yugoslavia, March 31 (AFP) - A 70-year-old Serbian woman was dragged out of her house after being savagely beaten by unidentified assailants, the UNs refugee agency in Kosovo said Friday.

The agency seized on the attack as an example of the "horrific lack of community initiative" demonstrated by the overwhelmingly ethnic Albanian community in the southern Kosovo town of Prizren when it came to dealing with hate crimes.

The woman was attacked in her Prizren home before her assailants dragged her outside and left her in the street, said Peter Kessler, spokesman for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. The woman has been taken to hospital in Pristina where her condition is described as serious, Kessler added.

Also distressing is the lack of interest from medical personnel to attend non-Albanian patients," he said, recalling how Prizren doctors failed to respond to a call to help an elderly Croat man dying of a heart attack on March 22. He said that on March 21 the towns local authorities refused tore move the body of a Serb man who died of natural causes in his own home."

[Gon4z]

dud il raed and reply to tht one day becuase, its way to long... LoL

[serb08]

screw the t-55 they are to old and should go if we want a good tank the m84ab1 is the way to go serbia better start saving for christmas,

[serb08]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/M-80_A.JPG[
IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/M84_vrs.jpg[/IMG]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/T-72w.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/M84_srb.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/M-98_Vidra.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/Ko%C5%A1ava_rocket.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/274224278cmsbwifshl2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/M-87_Orkan-Srbija.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1e/155mm_nora-b52_01.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/M63_plamen_s.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/Fap.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/FAP-2026.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/VIU-55_Munja.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/BOV-3.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/M-80_SPAAA.JPG

[Akinci-Raider]

be realistic when i say our airforce is better your sams are good but our planes are better a j-22 has had a very promisng history low loss-rate in bosnia, croatia and they have s-300 and kosovo so they have proven themselves, our mig29 when they come back will be able to handle any war situatuation they are off coarse comming back better then when we recived them so what is there stoping from shooting a f-16 dont mind that f-16 usually like to fight in a 1:10 ratio. serbia has a big wepons deposit we can last for years untill we call russia for some wepon smuggling.Did the US navy pilots shot down 4 oraos or jastrebs in 1995....actualy one US pilot in matter of 4 minutes shot down like 3 serbian planes...

[serb08]

it depends what the americans are up againts a jatreb are useless aircraft, j-22 will be a little harder to shot down an mig29 can match a US f-16 but always got shoot down becuase it will be 1 vs 10 only 14 mig29 were purchased becuase yugo was expecting to develop novi avion instead of purchasing more foreign jets..

[Gon4z]

it depends what the americans are up againts a jatreb are useless aircraft, j-22 will be a little harder to shot down an mig29 can match a US f-16 but always got shoot down becuase it will be 1 vs 10 only 14 mig29 were purchased becuase yugo was expecting to develop novi avion instead of purchasing more foreign jets..

Great photos and Yes you are quiet right the J-21, G-4 & J-22 would be useless but the Mig-21 & the Mig-29 could put up a fight against the NATO F-16, F-15, F-14 & F/A-18.

if NOVI AVION was made i honestly think it would have been an excellent jet a real good match to most of these western aircraft


But this thread is kinda dead now

[Germania]

serbia will murder albania. Albania doesnt even have an airforce. (i mean it they have no combat aircraft)

Croatia didn't have an airforce and still kicked their *** in 1995. Serbia has a weak airforce so i dont think it would matter if albania had any airforce.
Also guys comparing equipment does not matter, it all matters on professionalism, like how the soldiers are trained, tactics and the leader of the operations.

[Falco]

Serbia
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Flag_of_Serbia.svg/150px-Flag_of_Serbia.svg.png

Army
Slodiers 60.000
Main Battle Tanks 1.016
Armored Vehicles ca. 1.000

Air Force
Slodiers 11.000
Combat Aircrafts 76
Transport Aircrafts 48
Helicopters 122

( Navy
Soldiers 3.500
Marines 900
Helicopters 23
Frigates 4
Submarines 1
Patrol Boats 31
Mine Warfare Vessels 3 )


Albania
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Flag_of_Albania.svg/150px-Flag_of_Albania.svg.png

Army
Soldiers 16.400
Main Battle Tanks 285
Armored Vehicles über 300
Howitzers 1.000

Air Force
Soldiers 3.600
Comabt Aircrafts 21
Transport Aircrafts 13
Helicopters 47

Navy
Soldiers 2.800
Patrol Boats 30
Mine Warfare Vessels 3


i think this is a pretty clear thing.
serbia does not only have the more modern equipment but also a bigger amout of it..

i vote for serbia!

[Gon4z]

that is very old information mate, Serbia has no longer a navy and it only has 220 M-84 tanks in service all other tanks are either in storage or destroyed or turned into engenairing viechles the T-55's have been out of Service for a long time and the air force only flies 8 jets regularly, extremely old information as of this year neither country has that much weaponry.
Very out of date this is a very subject and does not only depend on the amount of weaponry must several hundred different things and you can never predict who would win until war starts.

[mustavaris]

The one who is stupid enough to start will lose as the world will support the other one.

[Falco]

that is very old information mate,
its the best i could find ^^



Serbia has no longer a navy

i know.. thats why i put it into brackets..

[Gon4z]

The fact is Albania wont be fighting Serbia anytime soon the only war we can expect is a guerrilla war by the Kosovars against the Serbian forces something like Chechnya.

[Gon4z]

c'mon, I still dont know of any serbian forces in Kosova. Hopefully they will never come back there again.

The guard of KAR LAZAR operates in north of Kosova it was claimed both by UNMIK, KFOR and even the terrorist group its self & evne locals living in the north both Serbian & Albanian.
Well brother hopefully is just wishful thinking and I also hope they wont but real life is different and any one following the situation in Kosova especially the developments of 2007 they by now would be convince that war in Balkans in unavoidable we have already half way down that road and there is no turning back because if you turn back it will mean adding more time to the process with will result into conflict and continuing down that road will result to war, only a miracle will prevent that, and that miracle would be a solution which both Serbs & Albanian would agree to and both sides would be happy something which is now impossible.
It wont start into a full scale war at first, my scenario is already coming out as I predicted (not claiming I can see the future) I just was guessing from past historical experience this year has been full of protests in Kosova some which even turned deadly, and turning lots of the population against the foreign troops in Kosova more riots, lots of murders and bombs, the provocation of Serbia with war, the establishment of Serbian paramilitary groups in Kosova, the establishment of Albanian paramilitary group, the promise of independence by the end of this year, the terrible living standards for many, the poor economy, the mass protests which have been planed first which took place this week they promised that if their voice is not being heard they can turn them into riots if needed to catch the attention.
that is what I predicted and so far came true.

now what I think will happen from now is this.
Kosova will not gain independence by 10th December will rise big tensions very big protests will take place many resulting in riots and many people being injured, some even in death, identical to those that took place in Kosova in 1969, 1973, 1981, 1989, 1990, 1991,1997,1998...etc resulting in having most of the population turn anti KFOR, and soon you will see, the Kosovars declare independence unilaterally which will result in the north of Kosova doing the same fighting will erupt in and around the city of MITROVICA, KFOR will try to intervene eve killing herbs and Albanian then you will see attacks on KFOR maint by bombs/IED's by both Albanians & Serbs, the unrest will become to big for the KFOR to handle, they will move their forces abck to south of Kosova and try to at least keep the south under their control not to louse Bon-steel base, but soon they will also louse that and pull out Serb forces will enter and fighting will start in a full scale, resulting in fighting spilling in Preshevo valley, Medvegj & Kurshumlui also in Sangjak and even in Bosnia its self with Serbs trying to use the advantage of splitting and the Bosnians trying to help the Bosniaks in Sangjak and then we are looking at a very long war until some one louses 5-10 years similar to Afghanistan in the 80's or Chechnya in the 90's & now maybe even bloodier.

now you might not agree with me and might think that what I'm saying is just wild guesses but like I said if you have been following what is happening in Kosova every day like I have you would develop similar views to mine, and also many of the things that I claimed in the beginning of this year have come true, just go back and look at my pots I'm pretty sure the rest ill also come true if the situation continues the way it is.

[Gon4z]

I see greatest problem to minority of Bosnians living in Kosova. They speak almost same language even slang like Serbs, so they may be also targeted as potential serbs though they have nothing in common with serbs except similar language.
That should be the least of your worries, the Bosniaks in Kosova are threaten to different from the Albanians believe me I saw it, most Bosnaisk choose to speak Albanian, and all the Bosniaks living in north Mitrovica are always targeted By Serbs, this Bosniak that was in te news 2 days ago was speaking perfect Albanian and saying how he tried to stop the Serbs from looting an Albanian house but they treated him and he even called KFOR and Police and they never came he was criticizing the KFOR and SHPK police that they do not give and security to the Albanians of the north and that not eve to him he was showing to the camera the entrance to his house with many bullet marks and even the shrapnel of a bomb that exploded there when Serbs tried to kill him 3 months ago, don't worry the Bosniaks have never been targeted by Albanians not even in the first war there were plenty Bosniaks fighting along side us.
most of the Albanians Speak Serbian and Kosova is a small country people know each other one way or another and know who's a Serb and whose a Bosniak.


Secondly, referring to similrasituation in Taiwan. Taiwan never obtained full independence but is highly developed country. So I think is not primary focus of independence but rather people.
True but than again Taiwan and is quiet a different situation it gets help from many of the nations and its technically independent just not by name also it has no borders with China, which means the Chinese there have no choice but integrate with society which means they have no zone they have under control like the Serbs have in Kosova.


People shoulb in focus, their needs, food, security, education, relations of Kosova with friendly countries, and when all that is completed you start creating new jobs that would eventually decrease the tensions.
well knowing Serbs & Albanians that will never happen.... I just don't see that happening its to late for that now the situation will turn bad before it turns good.

[serb08]

that is very old information mate, Serbia has no longer a navy and it only has 220 M-84 tanks in service all other tanks are either in storage or destroyed or turned into engenairing viechles the T-55's have been out of Service for a long time and the air force only flies 8 jets regularly, extremely old information as of this year neither country has that much weaponry.
Very out of date this is a very subject and does not only depend on the amount of weaponry must several hundred different things and you can never predict who would win until war starts.

well luckly i can and serbia is on top albanians have 10x worse equipment then us and most of those tanks are in reserve and storage.

[Gon4z]

well luckly i can and serbia is on top albanians have 10x worse equipment then us and most of those tanks are in reserve and storage.

Shhhhh........ you have tin cans list like us, everything you have is useless, your Tanks can be evaporated from the face of the earth with some good IED's & your aircraft are so crappy we can knock them with Kallashnikovs, but we will not need to do so because you haven't got enough money & fuel to fly them.

[serb08]

maybe but its better then nothing we might have tin cans but at least they can do somthing.

[Gon4z]

maybe but its better then nothing we might have tin cans but at least they can do somthing.

Well so can our Tin cans they can do the exact same thing as our, NOTHING, except if you use them against civilians, where are you going to use your tanks in the mountains against a guerrilla war fare, Russia has good weapons but have proven useless in a guerrilla warfare both in in Afghanistan & Chechnya.
The only thing that can be useful from both of our sides is Artillery & MRL's, as for Tanks, Apc's, IFV's, Air force...etc all useless, I mean if US Tanks & APC's with all of that extra top of the range secret amour are being destroyed by home made road side bombs, what chance do light armored Serbian M80A IFV's & M84A mbt's have, so lets not even talk about the M60 APC's or the BOV's.
same goes for Albanian military.
ever hear of Toyota War go read about it, and see how lybia with 500 tanks over 500 APC's & IFV's & 30 aircraft lost to Chad with nothing more than Toyota Hillux pickup trucks.
and if we really need more tin cans we can easily get BRDM's BMP's, BTR's T-55, T-62, T-72...etc and all other stuff from countries like Syria, Iran and other countries. even aircraft but I wouldn't Guerrilla war is t best way at first because you will have an upper hand and when reaching the end of t conflict and if you are win in you can acquire heavy weaponry and crush the enemy totally.

[Apolonia2, his request..]

well luckly i can and serbia is on top albanians have 10x worse equipment then us and most of those tanks are in reserve and storage.

Just wait till at least 2010-2012, because our "worse equipment" will be 50x better than your cold war era weapons and your "M-84ab1" will be obliterated with our Leo 2's and our 26x F-16's plus Anti-tank missiles. G-36 and MP-7 is better than M-21. We will be in NATO first. Just saying,no disrespect intended.:huh2::smile1::huh2::smile1::worried2::rawrrrrr3::r awrrrrr3::3eyes4:

[Germania]

Just wait till at least 2010-2012, because our "worse equipment" will be 50x better than your cold war era weapons and your "M-84ab1" will be obliterated with our Leo 2's and our 26x F-16's plus Anti-tank missiles. G-36 and MP-7 is better than M-21. We will be in NATO first. Just saying,no disrespect intended.:huh2::smile1::huh2::smile1::worried2::rawrrrrr3::r awrrrrr3::3eyes4:

does albania have the money for all that stuff and what leo2's? latest or old leo2's??

Buy croatian M-84D's :wub2:

[Relikt]

Just wait till at least 2010-2012, because our "worse equipment" will be 50x better than your cold war era weapons and your "M-84ab1" will be obliterated with our Leo 2's and our 26x F-16's plus Anti-tank missiles. G-36 and MP-7 is better than M-21. We will be in NATO first. Just saying,no disrespect intended.:huh2::smile1::huh2::smile1::worried2::rawrrrrr3::r awrrrrr3::3eyes4:
When you get in NATO you cant act on your own will. You need to ask USA for everything.
It is who World working.

P.S. 26 F-16 sounds too much for country which have size of Albania are you sure?

[Relikt]

does albania have the money for all that stuff and what leo2's? latest or old leo2's??

Buy croatian M-84D's :wub2:
Who you think they do that?
Croatia has build* 2M-84D.

And M-84D isnt by NATO standard (125mm not 120mm, and no way its autoloader can use one piece nato shell)

*they didnt build them they fold in those two tanks for parts for Vihor tank (which was M-95 Degman). So we need to wait and see is Croatia capable to start independent production of M-84(yes they even dont product M-84) same thing is with Serbia too. M-84 was build in four Yugoslavian republics (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Hercegovina, Serbia).

[Germania]

1. it is not official if they are going to use 125mm they still have a choice for 120mm from leo2.
2. they built 2 for now, you think albania will buy tanks now? i was talking about 2010-2012 like the guy i quoted said.
3. That is already covered, go and look for the article. Once kuwait wants the m-84d's then its ready to be produced.

[kaiser_tr]

albanians would kick serbia's ***..serbs are bad neighbours and hated by almost everyone in the region(except for greeks) on the other hand albanians would get every help from turkey/bosnia/iran and even saudi arabia:)

[Relikt]

1. it is not official if they are going to use 125mm they still have a choice for 120mm from leo2.
2. they built 2 for now, you think albania will buy tanks now? i was talking about 2010-2012 like the guy i quoted said.
3. That is already covered, go and look for the article. Once kuwait wants the m-84d's then its ready to be produced.
And did Kuwait said something? As I remeber date of their decision was September. Today is middle of October.

Albania really dont need tanks. But similar thinking had Canada and when they stuck in A-stan they find out they need good tank.
My opinion is that M-84D and M-2001 isnt good tanks. Probable they cant compare with Leo-2 A4. So it is better chose and probable it is in similar price range.

P.S. I read somewhere that Kuwait would probable dump M-84 and even M1 for Leclerc which is probable best solution and of course they can get nice bribe in that job. Bribe is most important when you are dealing with Kuwaitians. So if tank is more expensive (Leclerc is one of most expensive tanks in World) bribe can be bigger :)

[serb08]

albanians would kick serbia's ***..serbs are bad neighbours and hated by almost everyone in the region(except for greeks) on the other hand albanians would get every help from turkey/bosnia/iran and even saudi arabia:)
yes iran and the saudi are going to help you, we have greece macedonia, R of srpska and RUSSIA yes a BIG power supporting us the USA will probaly leave you for dead. AND yea iran have a security agreeement with SERBIA that we both signed why would iran help a USA suck up like your self think before you act.

[Relikt]

I dont like "what if" subjects.

[Iranian Guards]

please stop these threads, it is getting annoying!

[Supreme]

albanians would kick serbia's ***..serbs are bad neighbours and hated by almost everyone in the region(except for greeks) on the other hand albanians would get every help from turkey/bosnia/iran and even saudi arabia:)

And every Christian country would help Serbia:biggrin1:

[Mxm]

And every Christian country would help Serbia:biggrin1:
:roflmao3: who will give their life for Serbia would you ?? dare to come 2 kosova leave behind your family and fight for another country ?? in your dreams your just an guy who has an big mouth behind the pc and thats it

[Mxm]

and yes Albania would win the war

[Supreme]

Yeah im sure every Turk, Iranian and Arab will come to your aid and help you fight:roflmao3:

[Mxm]

Yeah im sure every Turk, Iranian and Arab will come to your aid and help you fight:roflmao3:
its known that they are braver then you guys ;)

[Mxm]

Yeah im sure every Turk, Iranian and Arab will come to your aid and help you fight:roflmao3:some of them will come hundreds time more then you guys and this all the Albanians will fight we wont allow what happent in 1999 happen again i know i will give mine life for an free kosova

[Mxm]

Yeah im sure every Turk, Iranian and Arab will come to your aid and help you fight:roflmao3:pff you little kid when you where playing with your toys i was fighting for mine life and freedom of mine peopel so stfu and dont come here and talk like your all that cause you are nothing just an guy who doesnt know how to spend his time and who has an big mouth on the internet

[Apolonia2, his request..]

does albania have the money for all that stuff and what leo2's? latest or old leo2's??

Buy croatian M-84D's :wub2:

Most likely old Leopard 2A4 from Germany. Yes we can withstand the purchases and no we will not go 50 steps back and buy a tank that is related to the cold war. We will buy ONLY NATO equipment until I don't know............

[Apolonia2, his request..]

When you get in NATO you cant act on your own will. You need to ask USA for everything.
It is who World working.

P.S. 26 F-16 sounds too much for country which have size of Albania are you sure?

Yes we will most likely get F-16's but for the number I just estimated(I am not to sure). We will also consider getting an attack helicopter squadron besides the BO-105 that we have now. Serbia will also get F-16 but only when they get in NATO. All of our military is going to be professional,well equiped and efficient.

[s-300]

Servia would win big time they are thougth and experienced army no change to albania beside lossing the terrain and start a gerrila war i am portuguese and i have no interesse on being bis in this question whit right armament Servia is master of the balcans in terms of military train will etc .....

[Mxm]

Servia would win big time they are thougth and experienced army no change to albania beside lossing the terrain and start a gerrila war i am portuguese and i have no interesse on being bis in this question whit right armament Servia is master of the balcans in terms of military train will etc .....
i know you said serbia would win and i respect your opinion but i do not understand the other stuff you wrote can you explain it to me what you meant ?

[Germania]

yes iran and the saudi are going to help you, we have greece macedonia, R of srpska and RUSSIA yes a BIG power supporting us the USA will probaly leave you for dead. AND yea iran have a security agreeement with SERBIA that we both signed why would iran help a USA suck up like your self think before you act.

If USA and Israel attack's Iran will Serbia will help Iran? I thought so... then why the heck would iran help serbia?

[Mxm]

Dont you worry about the will right now we trained for 8 years for this war we got all new ecuipment and will we got enghouf we wont allow 1999 to happen again we got scuds that can destroy serbia in one singel attack and cause of the tough terrain we cant use tanks 2 much we have to rely on artillery\airplanes\rocketlaunchers and soldiers our moral is very high and of the serbs wel low they arent even paid for the 1999 wars nobody of the serbs want to fight for kosova except maybe those terrorist kar lazar and they will get their *** kicked

[Germania]

Most likely old Leopard 2A4 from Germany. Yes we can withstand the purchases and no we will not go 50 steps back and buy a tank that is related to the cold war. We will buy ONLY NATO equipment until I don't know............

Leo2 was developed in the early 1970s and entered service in 1979, that to me is during cold war.

[Mxm]

well i meant Belgrade

[Mxm]

Leo2 was developed in the early 1970s and entered service in 1979, that to me is during cold war.its still beter then the m84 -_-

[Germania]

yes but M-84D is very upgraded over the normal M-84 also it is not worth getting leo2 for alot of money. It is better to have alot of good tanks than have very few pro tanks.
here is one example:
get 12 Leo2A4's
or
24 M-84D's
or 12 M-84D's and 2 Griphen's

Sure get a leo2 if u got money to throw away
I would also like a leo2 but u need to think...

[Mxm]

rofl i noticed an guy saying here Serbia got much better airplanes lol
our SA-5 Gammon Missiles are more then enghouf for those old migs

and our sa-5 gammon missiles (went under upgrade by a private Russian firm) so they are much better then the normal ones

[Mxm]

yes but M-84D is very upgraded over the normal M-84 also it is not worth getting leo2 for alot of money. It is better to have alot of good tanks than have very few pro tanks.
here is one example:
get 12 Leo2A4's
or
24 M-84D's
or 12 M-84D's and 2 Griphen's

Sure get a leo2 if u got money to throw away
I would also like a leo2 but u need to think...hmm but still leo2a4 can kick m48ds *** but its still not sure what tanks we gonna get but one thing is sure they need 2 be nato worthy

btw are you albanian ?

[Germania]

also a M-84D can kick leoA4's *** if it has a skilled crew.
I think Croatia will use the Leo2 120mm L55 cannon because cro is gonna join NATO.

No i am not Albanian lol.

[Mxm]

also a M-84D can kick leoA4's *** if it has a skilled crew.
I think Croatia will use the Leo2 120mm L55 cannon because cro is gonna join NATO.

No i am not Albanian lol.
well Albania is also going 2 join nato the same time as Croatia will in april 2008

[Germania]

I know that :) also cro n albania are training together (special forces). Serbia is left out lol.

[Mxm]

hehe yea i saw that artical somewhere but i dont know where but yes its great news we need 2 be allys and let serbia out in everything

[Germania]

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).
EDIT: rofl

[mustavaris]

The Leo2s can be had with very little money:

Finland paid 500 000$ a piece. That was less than was counted to be the cost projection of modernization for a sinlge T72 we also have.

And Poland paid even less than us.

As a whole we paid around 100 million €uros for 124 Leo 2s including their maintenace equipment at batalion & brigade level, spares, ammunition for training and enough ammunition for large scale warfare, simulators, training facilities and equipment and training for the instructors and maintenance personnel.

I doubt whether the M84 program could be more cost effective: but independent program has it´s good sides.

[Germania]

M-84D is half the price of 500,000. :D

[Mxm]

M-84D is half the price of 500,000. :D
well maybe quantety is beter sometimes then quality but i dont know what ur goverment willl do and what they will buy we know they will buy f16s but tanks and other stuff we dont know

[Germania]

my government?? or croatia?
croatia is getting heaps of stuff, new tanks (m84-D), new armored APC's, new Armored cars, new stealth ships (already have a few), Gripen or F-16, artilery, transport helicopters and also VHS rifle (still testing in afganistan with G36C).

[mustavaris]

M-84D is half the price of 500,000. :D

I doubt it. This seems to indicate that the cancelled 300M$ upgrade program for Kuwaiti M-84s would have modernized 200 tanks... I do not know Serbian too well, so correct me if I am wrong. That is 1,5M$ a piece, and with that money you would upgrade your old tanks, you would not be a getting new ones.

„Politika” 15.04.2005.

НА ПОМОЛУ ВЕЛИКИ ПОСАО НАШЕ ПРИВРЕДЕ

Повратак у Кувајт

Тенк М-84АБ1 положио све тестове и могао би да постане највећи извозни хит наше индустрије

Армија Кувајта жели да модернизује тенкове М-84 на стандард руског супертенка Т-90С и тај посао ће, по свему судећи, добити привреда Србије и Црне Горе, јер је и тенк М-84 у саставу кувајтске војске наш производ, а компанија „Југоимпорт-СДПР” развила је модернизацију на ниво тенка М-84АБ1.

Кувајтске власти су, наиме, пред непосредном одлуком да потпишу уговор вредан око 300 милиона долара. Комплетну модернизацију поменутог тенка на ниво тенка М-84АБ1, потпуно самостално је финансирала Компанија «Југоимпорт-СДПР», да би недавно добила прилику да његове могућности демонстрира и у пустињи Кувајта. Јер, са југословенским тенковима М-84 армија Кувајта, њихова 15. оклопна бригада, прва је ушла у ослобођени главни град после пораза Ирака у «Пустињској олуји» 1991. године. Пре тога продали смо Кувајту око 200 тенкова М-84, истина стигли смо да испоручимо нешто више од 150, али и то у то време био највећи појединачни посао тадашње целокупне југословенске индустрије.

Године су пролазиле и постојећи тенк М-84 требало је модернизовати да би остао на нивоу најмодернијих оклопњака у свету. Како тржиште за тај посао већ постоји, »Југоимпорт-СДПР» приступио је том пројекту на амерички начин, самостално финансирајући модернизацију тенка М-84. Технички то је обављено у корпорацији «Лола».

Спектакл у финалу

Кувајћани су били први заинтересовани и после упознавања са особинама новог М-84АБ1 на полигону Никинци, код Београда, затражили су тестирање и у њиховој пустињи. Тако је после 15 година опет један наш тенк стигао у Кувајт.

Било је то спектакуларно гађање. Кувајтска посада најпре је маневрисала нашим тенком при свим могућим брзинама и бочним нагибима у пустињским јаругама са максималним напрезањем мотора. Затим је уследило гађање гранатама из топа из покрета и са застанка са коришћењем поткалибарних пројектила са језгром од тешког метала и пројектила са вишеструком кумулативном бојевом главом која пробија све данас постојеће тенковске оклопе у свету. После тога је гађано из противавионског митраљеза од 12,7 мм даљинским управљањем из унутрашњости куполе. Кувајтска посада имала је одличне поготке и онда је уследило велико финале, гађање ракетом из тенковског топа, јер М-84АБ1 може да лансира и ракету из топа од 125 мм.

Директор компаније «Југоимпорт-СДПР» Стеван Никчевић предложио је министру одбране Кувајта Емиру Ел Сабаху да кувајтска страна одлучи на коју даљину циља да се лансира ракета из тенковског топа. Иначе, максимална даљина за ту врсту гађања је до 5.000 метара. Амерички тенкови типа М-1 «абрамс», које Кувајћани такође имају у свом наоружању, испаљују ракете на циљеве удаљене до максимум 3.000 метара.

Министар одбране Кувајта је, дакле, предложио да се овом приликом не иде преко америчког максимума, односно да се гађа циљ удаљен 3.000 метара. Кувајтска посада лансирала је две ракете и обе су погодиле средиште циља. Одушевљење Кувајћана било је неизмерно. Високи официри кувајтске војске пожурили су да честитају директору компаније «Југоипорт-СДПР» речима: «Браво, Срби!».

Велика шанса

Да би спектакл у пустињи Кувајта био потпун и глобалан, побринули су се, наравно, Американци. Наиме, све време тестирања тенка М-84АБ1 над полигоном и нашим тенком «висила» је америчка беспилотна летелица снимајући све шта се догађа. Прво на висини од око 300 метара, да би са затим спустила на само 15 метара изнад земље. Претходног дана један амерички пуковник затражио је да уђе у наш М-84АБ1. Директор «Југоипорта-СДПР» Никчевић рекао му је да може, али само ако се и њему дозволи улазак у амерички М-1 «абрамс». Американац није прихватио «дил».

Може се очекивати да посао са модернизацијом кувајтских тенкова М-84 на ниво М-84АБ1, што је, заправо, еквивалент најмодернијем руском тенку Т-90С, крене већ крајем ове године. То је велика шанса наше привреде, јер је укупна вредност посла око 300 милиона америчких долара.

Ремонт кувајтских тенкова и испорука сетова за њихову модернизацију шанса су и за модернизацију тенкова М-84 у саставу Војске Србије и Црне Горе. У оквиру реформе наших оружаних снага модернизовани тенкови имају улогу у свим врстама модерних сукоба, па и у борби против терориста у насељним местима, а посебно изван њих.

Компанија «Југоимпорт-СДПР» овим је послом промовисала и нови начин продаје наоружања и војне опреме на светском тржишту. Сопствено финансирање.

Мирослав Лазански

[Mxm]

my government?? or croatia?
croatia is getting heaps of stuff, new tanks (m84-D), new armored APC's, new Armored cars, new stealth ships (already have a few), Gripen or F-16, artilery, transport helicopters and also HSV2000 (still testing in afganistan with G36C).

well we also gonna get new attackhelicopters airplanes apcs tanks artillery small weapons ships basicelly everything will be new


and i am very happy for Croatia :biggrin1: we need to be much more powerfull then Serbia to shut them up they are getting very anoing

[mustavaris]

Ok, now I have a Croatian source:

http://www.nacional.hr/articles/view/33530/

"the price of upgrading one tank would be up to a million US dollars, depending on the equipment package the Kuwaitis opt for, while the price of a new tank is about 2.5 million." [my correction]

"Besides that, the Abrams price tag is about US$ 5 million, which is double the price of a new M-84D."

[Germania]

o ye, thought u said 5 million per leo2. How did finland get leo2's for just half a million??
leo2 costs 5mil doesn't it? M1A2 costs 5 mil.

[Germania]

I doubt it. This seems to indicate that the cancelled 300M$ upgrade program for Kuwaiti M-84s would have modernized 200 tanks... I do not know Serbian too well, so correct me if I am wrong. That is 1,5M$ a piece, and with that money you would upgrade your old tanks, you would not be a getting new ones.

„Politika” 15.04.2005.

НА ПОМОЛУ ВЕЛИКИ ПОСАО НАШЕ ПРИВРЕДЕ

Повратак у Кувајт

Тенк М-84АБ1 положио све тестове и могао би да постане највећи извозни хит наше индустрије

Армија Кувајта жели да модернизује тенкове М-84 на стандард руског супертенка Т-90С и тај посао ће, по свему судећи, добити привреда Србије и Црне Горе, јер је и тенк М-84 у саставу кувајтске војске наш производ, а компанија „Југоимпорт-СДПР” развила је модернизацију на ниво тенка М-84АБ1.

Кувајтске власти су, наиме, пред непосредном одлуком да потпишу уговор вредан око 300 милиона долара. Комплетну модернизацију поменутог тенка на ниво тенка М-84АБ1, потпуно самостално је финансирала Компанија «Југоимпорт-СДПР», да би недавно добила прилику да његове могућности демонстрира и у пустињи Кувајта. Јер, са југословенским тенковима М-84 армија Кувајта, њихова 15. оклопна бригада, прва је ушла у ослобођени главни град после пораза Ирака у «Пустињској олуји» 1991. године. Пре тога продали смо Кувајту око 200 тенкова М-84, истина стигли смо да испоручимо нешто више од 150, али и то у то време био највећи појединачни посао тадашње целокупне југословенске индустрије.

Године су пролазиле и постојећи тенк М-84 требало је модернизовати да би остао на нивоу најмодернијих оклопњака у свету. Како тржиште за тај посао већ постоји, »Југоимпорт-СДПР» приступио је том пројекту на амерички начин, самостално финансирајући модернизацију тенка М-84. Технички то је обављено у корпорацији «Лола».

Спектакл у финалу

Кувајћани су били први заинтересовани и после упознавања са особинама новог М-84АБ1 на полигону Никинци, код Београда, затражили су тестирање и у њиховој пустињи. Тако је после 15 година опет један наш тенк стигао у Кувајт.

Било је то спектакуларно гађање. Кувајтска посада најпре је маневрисала нашим тенком при свим могућим брзинама и бочним нагибима у пустињским јаругама са максималним напрезањем мотора. Затим је уследило гађање гранатама из топа из покрета и са застанка са коришћењем поткалибарних пројектила са језгром од тешког метала и пројектила са вишеструком кумулативном бојевом главом која пробија све данас постојеће тенковске оклопе у свету. После тога је гађано из противавионског митраљеза од 12,7 мм даљинским управљањем из унутрашњости куполе. Кувајтска посада имала је одличне поготке и онда је уследило велико финале, гађање ракетом из тенковског топа, јер М-84АБ1 може да лансира и ракету из топа од 125 мм.

Директор компаније «Југоимпорт-СДПР» Стеван Никчевић предложио је министру одбране Кувајта Емиру Ел Сабаху да кувајтска страна одлучи на коју даљину циља да се лансира ракета из тенковског топа. Иначе, максимална даљина за ту врсту гађања је до 5.000 метара. Амерички тенкови типа М-1 «абрамс», које Кувајћани такође имају у свом наоружању, испаљују ракете на циљеве удаљене до максимум 3.000 метара.

Министар одбране Кувајта је, дакле, предложио да се овом приликом не иде преко америчког максимума, односно да се гађа циљ удаљен 3.000 метара. Кувајтска посада лансирала је две ракете и обе су погодиле средиште циља. Одушевљење Кувајћана било је неизмерно. Високи официри кувајтске војске пожурили су да честитају директору компаније «Југоипорт-СДПР» речима: «Браво, Срби!».

Велика шанса

Да би спектакл у пустињи Кувајта био потпун и глобалан, побринули су се, наравно, Американци. Наиме, све време тестирања тенка М-84АБ1 над полигоном и нашим тенком «висила» је америчка беспилотна летелица снимајући све шта се догађа. Прво на висини од око 300 метара, да би са затим спустила на само 15 метара изнад земље. Претходног дана један амерички пуковник затражио је да уђе у наш М-84АБ1. Директор «Југоипорта-СДПР» Никчевић рекао му је да може, али само ако се и њему дозволи улазак у амерички М-1 «абрамс». Американац није прихватио «дил».

Може се очекивати да посао са модернизацијом кувајтских тенкова М-84 на ниво М-84АБ1, што је, заправо, еквивалент најмодернијем руском тенку Т-90С, крене већ крајем ове године. То је велика шанса наше привреде, јер је укупна вредност посла око 300 милиона америчких долара.

Ремонт кувајтских тенкова и испорука сетова за њихову модернизацију шанса су и за модернизацију тенкова М-84 у саставу Војске Србије и Црне Горе. У оквиру реформе наших оружаних снага модернизовани тенкови имају улогу у свим врстама модерних сукоба, па и у борби против терориста у насељним местима, а посебно изван њих.

Компанија «Југоимпорт-СДПР» овим је послом промовисала и нови начин продаје наоружања и војне опреме на светском тржишту. Сопствено финансирање.

Мирослав Лазански
what does that say and where is the source for the 300mil project cancelled??

[Mxm]

m1a2 only 5 mill ?? are you sure about this hmm pretty cheap i thought it was more expensive

[mustavaris]

o ye, thought u said 5 million per leo2. How did finland get leo2's for just half a million??
leo2 costs 5mil doesn't it? M1A2 costs 5 mil.

They are second hand material and the Germans wanted to get rid off them. Legend says that the Poles paid something like half the price we paid for their MBTs (not sure about the other material). It looks also like that the Germans have wanted to generate some goodwill with these transactions.

[Mxm]

hmm stupid albania didnt buy some then :(

[Germania]

m1a2 only 5 mill ?? are you sure about this hmm pretty cheap i thought it was more expensive

yep and no that is not cheap.

[mustavaris]

what does that say and where is the source for the 300mil project cancelled??

In that text;) "Кувајтске власти су, наиме, пред непосредном одлуком да потпишу уговор вредан око 300 милиона долара. Комплетну модернизацију поменутог тенка на ниво тенка М-84АБ1, потпуно самостално је финансирала Компанија «Југоимпорт-СДПР», да би недавно добила прилику да његове могућности демонстрира и у пустињи Кувајта. Јер, са југословенским тенковима М-84 армија Кувајта, њихова 15. оклопна бригада, прва је ушла у ослобођени главни град после пораза Ирака у «Пустињској олуји» 1991. године. Пре тога продали смо Кувајту око 200 тенкова М-84, истина стигли смо да испоручимо нешто више од 150, али и то у то време био највећи појединачни посао тадашње целокупне југословенске индустрије."

Roughly said: Kuwaiti military wants to upgrade it´s 200 M-84AB1s which it bought from Yugoslavia in 1991 and the projected cost for that would have been 300 million dollars. But.. the resident Serbs may correct me if (when) I am missing something:wub2:

And here you can see that the Croatian M-84D is now the MBT the Kuwaitis seem to be the most interested in: http://www.nacional.hr/articles/view/33530/

And from that I assume that the deal with Serbia was cancelled.

[Mxm]

even beter i hope they buy them from Croatia

[Germania]

i thought u said the deal with croatia was cancelled lol.

[Mxm]

yep and no that is not cheap.well i tought it was more expensive but still its an great tank so ofc it cost an bit more then the others

[mustavaris]

m1a2 only 5 mill ?? are you sure about this hmm pretty cheap i thought it was more expensive


The pricetag of 5M dollars is probably the cost of the MBT when it rolls out of the factory: add other equipment, facilities, ammunition, basic training to start the use of the tanks and so forth and the price keeps rising. The extra engines, barrels and other spares ain´t cheap either. So the real program cost could be at least a couple million dollars/tank higher than the roll-out price.

[mustavaris]

i thought u said the deal with croatia was cancelled lol.

NP, I meant that the deal with Serbia was cancelled.

[Mxm]

The pricetag of 5M dollars is probably the cost of the MBT when it rolls out of the factory: add other equipment, facilities, ammunition, basic training to start the use of the tanks and so forth and the price keeps rising. The extra engines, barrels and other spares ain´t cheap either. So the real program cost could be at least a couple million dollars/tank higher than the roll-out price.yes you are right about that the actuall price is much much higher

[Germania]

Do you know what is happening to the M-84D now? they said the kuwaiti's would come in september and now is october, what happened?
its pretty crap that there are no video's of the m-84D and updated news on it.

[mustavaris]

Do you know what is happening to the M-84D now? they said the kuwaiti's would come in september and now is october, what happened?
its pretty crap that there are no video's of the m-84D and updated news on it.

I havent seen any more recent information but the delays are common in these businesses and they rarely say anything for sure before there is ink on the paper esp. if the talks are still going on..

[Mxm]

this thread is kinda dead now :(

[Germania]

woot!!!:tongue1: Today on national television they said Kuwait will sign the deal with Croatia about modernisation of thier M-84's to M-84D standard. Obviously, it's a done deal. :biggrin1:

[Mxm]

woot!!!:tongue1: Today on national television they said Kuwait will sign the deal with Croatia about modernisation of thier M-84's to M-84D standard. Obviously, it's a done deal. :biggrin1:
hehe nice :biggrin1:

[Germania]

lol its funny how all the serbs on the forums say their M-2001 tank is way better and all that crap. ahahah if it was then why did kuwait choose the croatian tank over the serb and polish tank? hahahahah!!!!!!

[Mxm]

lol its funny how all the serbs on the forums say their M-2001 tank is way better and all that crap. ahahah if it was then why did kuwait choose the croatian tank over the serb and polish tank? hahahahah!!!!!!well lol you know how serbians are brainwashed some of them even are saying their mig29 can beat our f16i :roflmao3: hehe Albania is just starting we are going to get a lot more much much more :biggrin1:

[Germania]

Lol we are so proud of opur contries.
btw im sorry but Mikoyan MiG-29 was designed to counter F-16 and F-14 Tomcat which means its more new.
Ps. I didn't know albania has F-16's.

[Mxm]

Albania is expected to obtain up to 30 F-16C/D Block 50 with CCIP modernization from Turkey, deliveries beginning from 2010-2012. Each year since 2001, 12 Albanian pilots have been trained in the Turkish Air Force on F-16s and other aircraft, thus strengthening the Albanian Air Force's interest in acquiring them. These Turkish aircraft from Turkey are presumed to be military aid from Turkey to Albania upon their integration into NATO in April 2008, along with other aircraft like surplus Turkish F-4s, F-5s, AH-1, UH-1H, and hundreds of other weapons for Albanian ground forces.[26] There is speculation that once the aircraft are delivered, Albania will have them upgraded into F-16Is by Israeli engineers in Albania

[Mxm]

Albania: Albanian Air Force - Negotiations between the Albanian & Czech MOD's took place in 2006 about Albania purchasing 12x L-150A and 8x L-159B aircraft from the Czech Republic for around $150 million, including spare engines, training, and other essentials needed to fly and maintain the aircraft. Twelve Albanian pilots completed their training on L-159 aircraft in the Czech Republic in 2005 and became qualified instructors to train other pilots upon their return to Albania. The deal went quiet at end of 2006 because Albania had spend most of its $280 million yearly military budget, the negotiations were due to resume in 2007 but have not. In September 2007, the ALSAT TV station announced that the negotiations will resume with the Czech Republic in 2008, when Albania's military expenditures are due to rise to 2% of Albania's total GDP

[Mxm]

nah no way Serbia mig 29 can match the f16i never unless it 5 mig vs 1 f16 maybe then they would win

[Germania]

mig 29 is russian and it was built to counter F16 but dw they only have a few and they cant pay for them or have fuel for them.

[Mxm]

mig 29 is russian and it was built to counter F16 but dw they only have a few and they cant pay for them or have fuel for them.they will only get some mig29 we gonna get f16i f4 f5 l159 l159b and maybe also some other airplanes they can never match our airforce

[Mxm]

and i an dogfight the f16i will eat the mig29

[Germania]

umm they already have them lol. Croatia is getting JAS 39 Gripen :D