IRIAF , Still loves US fighters

[persian armed forces]

I found very good artical that says

some iranian af genrals and officials , went to Dubai air show to pick advance fighter for Iranian AF,
But the AF officials didn't show any Interset in Advance russian fighters like Su30 or Mig29

and one of the iranian officers said, one official told AIN that if he could pick any fighter in the world to have in his inventory “it would be the Boeing F-15.” hahahahah

Patchwork Procurement
Yet Iran also seems unwilling to join other nations that cannot or will not purchase a U.S. fighter and which instead opt for an advanced variant of the Sukhoi Su-30 or MiG-29. Most Iranian aerospace officials still have a definite preference for U.S.-built aircraft. At last year’s Iran airshow one official told AIN that if he could pick any fighter in the world to have in his inventory “it would be the Boeing F-15.” A limited number of Russian aircraft were purchased by Iran in the 1990s–including MiG-29s and Su-24 fighter-bombers–but there have been no sizable follow-on orders and there appear to be no powerful interests lobbying for a major Russian acquisition.

However, some Iranian engineers talk about retrofitting the Russian-designed Saturn/Lyulka AL-31F that powers the Su-30 into the Iranian F-14s, to replace the Pratt & Whitney TF30 engine. Also being discussed is replacement of the Tomcat’s pre-digital-age AN/AWG-9 radar with a contemporary Russian model, such as the Phazotron N010 Zhuk or the NIIP N011M Bars.

But these are all simply patchwork measures that will not address the long-term obsolescence of Iran’s air force. In the very near future, Iran will be forced either to become the next major importer of Russian fighters, or to make some political rapprochement with the U.S. and become another F-16 customer.

http://www.ainonline.com/Publications/Dubai/Dubai_03/d3ingenuityp18.html

And I heard, that many of Iranian Air force officers like to fly with F15 one day
but reality is we have to buy some good russian fighter for now,

and Our Air force officers should stop acting stupid and Pick SU30 or Su35 for now

[persian armed forces]

I also found this

Other countries in the Middle East which might want to buy Eurofighters include Syria and Iran. Syria is currently armed with Russian aircraft, and Iran has ageing American F-14 fighters, plus a few miscellaneous ex-Iraqi aircraft which flew to safety during the 1991 Gulf War. Both countries therefore lack modern fighter aircraft and are potentially threatened by Israeli air power. But if either bought the Eurofighter, the balance would change, since Eurofighter is a much more modern and better aircraft than the F-15s and F-16s that Israel uses. Some people might reply that sales of Eurofighters to Syria and Iran will harm Israel, because it’s a better plane than anything Israel has. But the answer to this isn’t to refuse to sell to Syria and Iran, it’s to offer to sell to Israel too! Israel’s economy is about the same size as Iran’s, and bigger than Syria’s, so they certainly have the money to afford Eurofighter. Furthermore, while European policy shouldn’t aim to harm Israel (or other countries), neither should it put Israeli interests before European interests.



http://www.thesharpener.net/?p=155

[lulldapull]

The Iranian official who prefers the junky ass F-15 over the Su-30 is a dumb ass:rolleyes:

Twice in the last 2 years the Indian Su-30Mk Flankers have mopped the floor with USAF Elmendorf Based F-15C's in Cope India series of exercises.:rolleyes:

The F-15 is an old design, its airframe is obsolete, it has a huge RCS (radar cross section), and gets illuminated like a giant hot air balloon on the Su-30's radar. It cannot turn with the Flanker, and in WVR fight the Flanker flies circles around the F-15.

Its only recently that the U.S. has added the Aim-9X onto its F-15E's and D's otherwise the Sukhoi enjoyed a 15 year advanatge over the worthless F-15 with its IRST and R-73/HMS combination! Truly the first of its kind of innovation on earth, which allowed the Flanker pilot to just look and take a wild off boresight shot.

In BVR arena too, the Aim-120 is outranged and outperformed by both the R-27ET/ TE-1/ R-77's by a huge margin. The Bars has a S/T range of more than 200miles, and can engage 4 of the 6 targets it can track while scanning, out from as far as 80 miles!

There is no comparison between the F-15, which is a 35 year old design, and the Flanker, which is still very much an evolving design, and with the new Russian AESA retro-fit, the Flankers will serve well into the next 20 years or more until the Pak-FA supplants them in Frontline service as a 5th Gen. replacement.

I wouldn't even piss on the F-15 if we are comparing it in Aircombat against the Flanker!

P.S. I must concede though that the F-15E/D is a great Bomb truck, with a great attack suite. However the Su-30, and more so the Su-35 series have rectified any short comings the early Su-27 series Flankers had in the air to ground arena.

Look at what Gen. Hornburg of the USAF had to say after he got his booty pumped by the Su-30MK's....and the MKI's weren't even used in the exercises due to Russian sensitivities as they are still pretty classified. Anyway I can post a gazzillion articles on this ass beating:



US air force learns from India

Agencies | June 24, 2004 16:49 IST


A recent training exercise with India has served as a "wake-up call" to the US Air Force, according to a top American general.

"We have to learn a lot of things from that," said General Hal Hornburg, head of the US Air Force's Air Combat Command, referring to the 'Cope India' exercise, conducted by the US and Indian air forces in Gwalior in February. "We have to learn if we want air superiority it doesn't come cheap and it's not automatic."

The Russian-made SU-30s are reported to have bested the USAF's F-15s in a majority of their engagements.

It pitted F-15Cs from the USAF's 3rd Wing out of Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska against a variety of Indian fighters like the Russian-made SU-30s, MiG-21s, MiG-29s and the French-made Mirage 2000s.



"In general, we may have learned some things that suggest we may not be as far ahead of the rest of the world as we once thought we were," he said.

He declined to discuss classified results of the exercise but said, "Something like Cope India, when we find that some of our advantages aren't as great as we thought they might be, leads me to remind people that we need to modernize our air-to-air capability."



Gen Hornburg said the results of the exercise showed the need for the F/A-22 Raptor and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Both aircraft are stealthier than the F-15.

The exercises showed that the SU-30s had a clear advantage over the F-15Cs in a long-range fight, the trade journal Aviation Week and Space Technology reported last month.

Gen Hornburg said the F-15Cs that took part in Cope India were not equipped with the latest radar.

"We are going to put new radars, as much as we can afford, in the F-16s and the F-15Es, and my prediction is we will have to do for the F-15C as well in due course," the general said.

[Musa a.s.]

I'm gonna add a little two cents. If Iran can't buy SU-37s from Russia directly, why not get them from friendly nations of Iran such as the Sudan???
http://koi.legion.wplus.net/guide/air/i/su37.shtml

[lulldapull]

Check this out guys, last year at the giant IAf airfield complex at Kalaikonda the Sukhoi's busted those Singapore AF F-16C/D Block52's right in the ass repeatedly, and then the Singaporean fags who are trained by these Israeli jews in aircombat tactics and doctrine refused to say anything to the media, about getting ass raped by the Indian Sukhoi's...:D...The F-16 is a piece of shiit in front of the Sukhoi. I have read reports on the Bharat-Rakshak website on many a time an Indian Sukhoi totally outclassing the Block-52 F-16.'s. The F-16 performed so poorly that it became a lousy joke in the IAF.:D See the only way the U.S. succeeds is when it has cornered some beleagured third world sanctions ridden dictatorship. After isolating it, and over whelming it by a 4:1 margin, like they did with the Iraqi AF in 1991, when fewer than 400 operational Iraqi fighters faced more than 2000 Coalition fighters and strikers. If we Americans ever took on the Russian AF or the Chinese AF (Someone our own size, then we will get a fair fight). Anyway here's that article of the defeat of the RSAF F-16's, and a tacit acknowledgement of that by the RSAF Airchief).

SINGAPORE: Reports on F-16s 'understandable'

Singapore's Defence Ministry distances itself from Times of India reports which claim that fighter aircraft from the Indian air force out-performed Singapore's F-16 jets - the same aircraft used by its neighbour Pakistan

The Straits Times
Tuesday, October 26, 2004

By David Boey

Singapore's Defence Ministry distanced itself yesterday from Indian media reports which claimed that fighter aircraft from the Indian air force had out-performed Singapore's F-16 jets - the same aircraft used by its neighbour Pakistan.

Following the staging of the first joint air exercise between Singapore and India, the Times of India reported last Saturday that India 'need not lose sleep even if Pakistan manages to acquire more F-16 fighters from the United States'.

The newspaper quoted unnamed sources who touted the superior performance of India's top warplanes, including Russian-made Sukhoi-30s and MiG-29s.

They were used together with the F-16s from the Republic of Singapore Air Force during the ongoing exercise, called Sindex.

It also mentioned that the Indian Air Force aircraft had beaten US Air Force F-15 fighters during an exercise in India last February.

Asked to respond to the reports that Indian fighters had proven 'more than a match' for RSAF F-16s, a Singapore Ministry of Defence spokesman said that 'we can understand why the Indian media would come out with a sensational story like this.'

'We are very pleased with the exercise and the performance of the RSAF's pilots and aircraft,' he said.

'The Indian Air Force has been an excellent host, and as their guest it would not be courteous for us to comment on the specific outcomes of the exercise.'

He added: 'Both air forces found the exercise to be of great professional value.

'The RSAF certainly looks forward to future such exercises with the Indian Air Force.'

Date Posted: 10/26/2004

:D

[Musa a.s.]

You're a really smart man lulldapull.:)

[admin]

F15 is one of the best fighters in the world, tbh i rank them higher than the F16 myself.

[persian armed forces]

but guys the question is why the Iranian officers and pilots still prefer US fighters like F15E or F16

Insted of wasting time , Iran can afford to have the best russian Fighters like Su30, Su35, Su37

it should be somthing different from US fighters and Russian Fighters that IRIAF Like.

[admin]

but guys the question is why the Iranian officers and pilots still prefer US fighters like F15E or F16

Insted of wasting time , Iran can afford to have the best russian Fighters like Su30, Su35, Su37

it should be somthing different from US fighters and Russian Fighters that IRIAF Like.

Thats because American fighters are better! would you rather have the F22 or SU37?

Russian fighters have always been harder to control than the American fighters.

[Capricorn Edge]

Thats because American fighters are better! would you rather have the F22 or SU37?

Russian fighters have always been harder to control than the American fighters.

Nobody would deny that F-22 Raptors and F-35 JSFs are gonna kick an Su-37's butt, but Su-37s are far superior than F-15 Eagles and F-16s. If Iranian Air Force pilots want F-15 so much, then go for the China-made J-10. J-10 may not be as capable as the latest version of F-15, but J-10 is better that the obsolete F-14 crap that IRIAF has now.

[persian armed forces]

I agree with that , Iran needs to have upper hand against it enemys e.g crap Gulf state country also Saudi our biggest rival,

IRIAF and goverment should pick good Fighter for AF and don't wast a time ASAP

I wish I had $ 9 bilion and I could buy Su37 or Su30MKI for Iran

Hahahaha nice dream !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lulldapull]

but guys the question is why the Iranian officers and pilots still prefer US fighters like F15E or F16

Insted of wasting time , Iran can afford to have the best russian Fighters like Su30, Su35, Su37

it should be somthing different from US fighters and Russian Fighters that IRIAF Like.

Naa baba! The reason why Iran can't get these Mig-29M's and Su-30Mk's is becuase Uncle Putin wouldn't sell them to us under pressure from the U.S. and E.U.!;)

It is nothing more than Geo-politics! A powerful independant Iran on its feet is also bad news for Russia, because then Iran wouldn't need Russia either.

The Flankers are right now the best 'operational' fighters on this planet in numbers. With a proposed AESA fit the Flankers capability would be dramatically increased.

Don't worry! Okb Sukhoi is working on the T-50 prototype right now, and it will evolve into the much vaunted Pak-FA which is a 5th Gen. fighter aircraft with Super cruise, ultra long range missiles like the Novator Ks-172's. As is the Su-30MKI outperforms both the JSF and the F-18E/F. But I am sure no matter how much you evolve the Su-30 design, it will never be a match for the F-22, just due to the different level of technologies such as new materials, new generation of avionics and stealth used on the F-22!;)

The Sukhoi's T-50 will defeat the F-22, just like the Su-30 is more than a match for any of these F-14's/15's and 16's/ 18's.

[4X-IL]

you can all say whatever you want about Su's kicking F15's and F16's ass, the fact still remains that it is not real.

this article the persian armed forces gave here ( the second one )
is 1 big ******** article, and if the writer says " if they'll buy a Eurofighter, it will be much better than israelis aircrafts " only shows how this writer is DUMB, cause EuroFighter is a freaking company not an aircraft model.

in 1996,
3 Su-27 Flankers flew near the coast of israel ( one by one in time frames of few days ) because the russian wanted to " show them selves " and to show us that they are still here ( that how israel explained it )
they manuevered about hundred killometers from Israel and israeli F16's was launched to figure out what's going on ( no one knew who own those aircrafts or anything ).
the first one ended good after israeli pilots got close to him and told him with the hand to go away.
the second one start manuevering and tried to come on the tail of our F-16's ( he didn't had any missiles but they didn't knew if it have bullets in the gun ) so they manuvered as well and got on the Su-27 tail the whole time and didn't letted him to be on their for even once.
the third one was about the same only that the Su-27 tried harder and still, didn't succeded.
after everything it went well and the F16's didn't shot them down if thought they could've.


and remember this,
even thought the Su-27 supposed to be a very highly manueverable aircraft, and had NO weapons on him, and both of the F-16 was B models, and fully equiped with weapons, they still had the upper hand on the Su-27 in every moment of the " gathering ".

i can give you the article but it is in hebrew.

[Jordan]

http://adorocinema.cidadeinternet.com.br/filmes/top-gun/top-gun-poster03.jpg

does he know that Tom Cruise is not included in the package?

[lulldapull]

but guys the question is why the Iranian officers and pilots still prefer US fighters like F15E or F16

Insted of wasting time , Iran can afford to have the best russian Fighters like Su30, Su35, Su37

it should be somthing different from US fighters and Russian Fighters that IRIAF Like.

They prefer U.S. fighters because they are easier to fly, have better reliability, better ergonomics in the cockpit, better situational awareness due to better than Russian engineering and R&D in that field, and the biggest reason is that IRIAF is used to American weapon systems and have had a good and positive experience with them.

Russia has traditionally been a very poor supplier in terms of after sales support, and with the collapse of the USSR, this situation got even worse!

Don't get me wrong! russian equipment is highly competitive, but its just that IRIAF is based around U.S. equipment, and is used to it!

The IRIAF Airchief needs to address this problem, and push Russia for supplying the flanker immediately in quantity, along with local Iranian serial production so it gets integrated into the Defence estabilishment, and forms the backbone of the IRIAF for the next 20 years or so.

Here's a few pics from Garuda, where the French AF Mirage-2000-5's were recenntly outclassed by the IAF's Flankers:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/Garuda/GarudaII_Su30-07.jpg

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/Garuda/GarudaII_Su30-02.jpg

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/Garuda/GarudaII_Pilots.jpg

[lulldapull]

you can all say whatever you want about Su's kicking F15's and F16's ass, the fact still remains that it is not real.

this article the persian armed forces gave here ( the second one )
is 1 big ******** article, and if the writer says " if they'll buy a Eurofighter, it will be much better than israelis aircrafts " only shows how this writer is DUMB, cause EuroFighter is a freaking company not an aircraft model.

in 1996,
3 Su-27 Flankers flew near the coast of israel ( one by one in time frames of few days ) because the russian wanted to " show them selves " and to show us that they are still here ( that how israel explained it )
they manuevered about hundred killometers from Israel and israeli F16's was launched to figure out what's going on ( no one knew who own those aircrafts or anything ).
the first one ended good after israeli pilots got close to him and told him with the hand to go away.
the second one start manuevering and tried to come on the tail of our F-16's ( he didn't had any missiles but they didn't knew if it have bullets in the gun ) so they manuvered as well and got on the Su-27 tail the whole time and didn't letted him to be on their for even once.
the third one was about the same only that the Su-27 tried harder and still, didn't succeded.
after everything it went well and the F16's didn't shot them down if thought they could've.


and remember this,
even thought the Su-27 supposed to be a very highly manueverable aircraft, and had NO weapons on him, and both of the F-16 was B models, and fully equiped with weapons, they still had the upper hand on the Su-27 in every moment of the " gathering ".

i can give you the article but it is in hebrew.

bhuwaaaaahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaa:D

4X-IL, here I have given a factual acount of what happened when the Flanker was pitted against all these obsolescent Western types, and it defeated them soundly each and every time! And I mean busted them left and right. And you are saying that what your daddy told you what happened off the mediterranian coast while he was chasing some camel jockey's and he imagined that "aircombat".....against the Flanker??:D

Comeon now, quit making me laugh with camel jockey stories...I just had breakfast.

[4X-IL]

bhuwaaaaahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaa:D

4X-IL, here I have given a factual acount of what happened when the Flanker was pitted against all these obsolescent Western types, and it defeated them soundly each and every time! And I mean busted them left and right. And you are saying that what your daddy told you what happened off the mediterranian coast while he was chasing some camel jockey's and he imagined that "aircombat".....against the Flanker??:D

Comeon now, quit making me laugh with camel jockey stories...I just had breakfast.


lol

it is hard to hear the truth right?

grow up

[4X-IL]

http://www.iaf.org.il/Templates/Journal/Journal.IN.aspx?lang=HE&lobbyID=50&folderID=621&subfolderID=623&docfolderID=625&docID=19924


if you know to read hebrew

[lulldapull]

lol

it is hard to hear the truth right?

grow up

Oh Shut up! You want bonafide articles off of major aircraft magazines such as ACIG or bharat-Rakshak or Janes detailing what happened to the western types when they faced the Flanker?....I got them!

Now as far as your unverifiable and uncoroborrated article written in camel jockey??......Well ahemm......I need not say more!:rolleyes:

[MiG 31]

F15 is one of the best fighters in the world, tbh i rank them higher than the F16 myself.

mig-29 itself is also better than F-16 :) .

*edit*- I also heard Indian mig-21's were a pain in the ass for those F-15s......

[4X-IL]

mig-29 itself is also better than F-16 :) .

*edit*- I also heard Indian mig-21's were a pain in the ass for those F-15s......

1999 -> two mig 29 shot down over syrian territory by 2 israeli F16's after those tried to shot them down.

[admin]

1999 -> two mig 29 shot down over syrian territory by 2 israeli F16's after those tried to shot them down.

Syria has shot down several F16's and F15's with mig 23's!

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_272.shtml

[attitude]

Well lets hope the Saudi's dont end up buying the Rafale from France because in all exercise's i know of it has outclassed all type's it has faced from the Fa-18e to the Eurofighter. It hasnt faced the Flanker yet but i dont think it would beat the Rafale. Flanker is awesome and the best possible buy for Iran right now. They should go through a third country like China to aquire them covertly. Then build under license if possible. With considerable upgrades the Su-30 could take down all US fighters.
Does anyone know of any air combat kills for the Flanker.

[Aimster]

Syria has shot down several F16's and F15's with mig 23's!

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_272.shtml

No they didn't.

That website is crap

[attitude]

http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=270&stc=1&d=1139739891
Mig-29 launching AA-10
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=271&stc=1&d=1139739891
Iranian Su-24mk in flight
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=272&stc=1&d=1139739891
Su-30 launching AA-12
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=273&stc=1&d=1139739891
Artwork of Iranian F-14 shootdown of Iraqi Mig-21
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=274&stc=1&d=1139739891
wreckage of F-4 found at Talil airbase Iraq

[4X-IL]

Syria has shot down several F16's and F15's with mig 23's!

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_272.shtml


As Aimser said and was right, it is a crappy site.

no israeli F-15 got ever shot down.
no F-15 in the world got ever shot down.


see this?


6Jun82 MiG-23MF Zachariah R-23R BQM-34 IDF/AF
7Jun82 MiG-23MF Merza R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
7Jun82 MiG-23MF Merza R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
8Jun82 MiG-23MF Hau R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
8Jun82 MiG-23MF Hau R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
8Jun82 MiG-21 A-4H IDF/AF
8Jun82 MiG-21 A-4H IDF/AF
9Jun82 MiG-21bis Harra R-60 F-15D IDF/AF (damaged)
9Jun82 MiG-23MF Deeb R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
9Jun82 MiG-23MF Nahhas R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
9Jun82 MiG-21bis R-60 Kfir C.2 IDF/AF
9Jun82 MiG-23MF Ali F-4E* IDF/AF (shared)
9Jun82 MiG-23MF Toma F-4E* IDF/AF (shared)
10Jun82 MiG-21bis ? R-13M F-4E IDF/AF
11Jun82 MiG-23MF al-Kherat R-13M F-4E IDF/AF
11Jun82 MiG-23MF Zo'aby R-13M F-4E IDF/AF
11Jun82 MiG-21bis R-60 F-4E IDF/AF
11Jun82 MiG-23MF R-24R E-2C IDF/AF


how i know it is a lie?

in june 82, no israeli aircraft got shot down.
this is the most famous battle of the IAF, called here the " hornet's nest ".
israeli aircraft shot down 82 mig21 and 23, and lost none.
that list is a lie, and israel never lost an F-16 either ( in battle )

the f-16 and the F-15 are the only IAF aircraft that never got shut down, as oppose to F-4 Phantoms, Mirage, A-4 skyhawk, etc.

[4X-IL]

ROFL want to see another proof that list is a lie?


13Sep73 MiG-21FL Halabi R-3S Nesher S IDF/AF (pilot Simchoni)

NESHER S?

ROFL
the Nesher was the first plane israel wanted to produce, never had a prototype of it, and of course never got into battle.

[khak-2-sar]

That site is based on pilots claiming kills and not on hard evidence facts :)

[4X-IL]

That site is based on pilots claiming kills and not on hard evidence facts :)


wtf?
they making lists on pilots claims?

that is not very professional

[khak-2-sar]

wtf?
they making lists on pilots claims?

that is not very professional

But sometimes countries do lie!

e.g. is there any way to know how many planes Iran shot down in iraq? countries sometimes hide the casualties as propaganda! sometimes a pilots word is more reliable than the government of a country. I am not saying always but i rather take the word of a pilot than an Iraqi minister who also claims to have support of 100% of their people whose president wins elections of 100% turnouts!

that site has had some very good articles and research into air to air combats, they are hardly an untrustworthy site, it's just the source they use isn't too reliable for that table, other than that they have some very exclusive data and pictures you can't find anywhere else.

[lulldapull]

Stupid 4X-IL! ACIG is the most accurate website out there! None of those IDf aircraft are being claimed as kills you dumb ass! Most are just claims! Confirmed entries are listed in Green, With Vioelt ones being close calls, and the ones in White are only 'Claims'!

Stupid person!

[4X-IL]

Stupid 4X-IL! ACIG is the most accurate website out there! None of those IDf aircraft are being claimed as kills you dumb ass! Most are just claims! Confirmed entries are listed in Green, With Vioelt ones being close calls, and the ones in White are only 'Claims'!

Stupid person!

So what?

If i'll go to the site adminstrator and say to him i'm iraqi gunman shot down an F-22 raptor with my AK-47, it is a cliam right?
why wont he add it to the list?

It is stupid to write planes in a list of "aces " that was never got shut down.
and i'm talking about the F-16, F-15, or the unexisting NESHER S that BTW is wroten in GREEN

[Musa a.s.]

http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=270&stc=1&d=1139739891
Mig-29 launching AA-10
So Germany DID keep some of East Germany's Migs they said they destroyed most and sold the rest of them.

[Musa a.s.]

As Aimser said and was right, it is a crappy site.

no israeli F-15 got ever shot down.
no F-15 in the world got ever shot down.


see this?


6Jun82 MiG-23MF Zachariah R-23R BQM-34 IDF/AF
7Jun82 MiG-23MF Merza R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
7Jun82 MiG-23MF Merza R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
8Jun82 MiG-23MF Hau R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
8Jun82 MiG-23MF Hau R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
8Jun82 MiG-21 A-4H IDF/AF
8Jun82 MiG-21 A-4H IDF/AF
9Jun82 MiG-21bis Harra R-60 F-15D IDF/AF (damaged)
9Jun82 MiG-23MF Deeb R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
9Jun82 MiG-23MF Nahhas R-23R F-16A IDF/AF
9Jun82 MiG-21bis R-60 Kfir C.2 IDF/AF
9Jun82 MiG-23MF Ali F-4E* IDF/AF (shared)
9Jun82 MiG-23MF Toma F-4E* IDF/AF (shared)
10Jun82 MiG-21bis ? R-13M F-4E IDF/AF
11Jun82 MiG-23MF al-Kherat R-13M F-4E IDF/AF
11Jun82 MiG-23MF Zo'aby R-13M F-4E IDF/AF
11Jun82 MiG-21bis R-60 F-4E IDF/AF
11Jun82 MiG-23MF R-24R E-2C IDF/AF


how i know it is a lie?

in june 82, no israeli aircraft got shot down.
this is the most famous battle of the IAF, called here the " hornet's nest ".
israeli aircraft shot down 82 mig21 and 23, and lost none.
that list is a lie, and israel never lost an F-16 either ( in battle )

the f-16 and the F-15 are the only IAF aircraft that never got shut down, as oppose to F-4 Phantoms, Mirage, A-4 skyhawk, etc.
I'm sorry but you're wrong 1 or 2 F-15s did get shot down from SAMS/AAFlack
durring the early bombing runs over Iraq, I remember hearing it when it happened on FOX-happy:rolleyes: News.:cool:

[Aimster]

No F-15 fighter has ever been shot down.

If you can prove it, I will paypal you $5,000.

Go on prove it. Reliable source only.

[4X-IL]

I'm sorry but you're wrong 1 or 2 F-15s did get shot down from SAMS/AAFlack
durring the early bombing runs over Iraq, I remember hearing it when it happened on FOX-happy:rolleyes: News.:cool:


ROFLLL

if you'll check in even 1!@#!@ place
you'll see that NO israeli aircraft got shot down in Iraq.

6 F15's escorted the F16's to the bombing and just flew around there and done nothing.
there was NO resistance in the Iraq bombing,

[lulldapull]

So what?

If i'll go to the site adminstrator and say to him i'm iraqi gunman shot down an F-22 raptor with my AK-47, it is a cliam right?
why wont he add it to the list?

It is stupid to write planes in a list of "aces " that was never got shut down.
and i'm talking about the F-16, F-15, or the unexisting NESHER S that BTW is wroten in GREEN

you stupid camel jockey, sometimes in aircombat there are close calls or damage! those are recorded as such! Whether your daddy made the claim or some other camel jockey, is irrelevant! A damaged or close call or Fratricide is recorded as such!:)

BTW in aircombat over the Bekaa Valley in 1982, A SyAF Mig-25 damaged an IDF F-15A using an R-40! The F-15 made it back to its base. But the encounter is recorded as such....dumb ass!:mad:

And that list is by no means a 'List' of aces! Just because an encounter ios listed doesn't mean it becomes a kill or is recorded as one. It is just a chronology of aircombat in all theatres of the world, with the results clearly listed.

[4X-IL]

you stupid camel jockey, sometimes in aircombat there are close calls or damage! those are recorded as such! Whether your daddy made the claim or some other camel jockey, is irrelevant! A damaged or close call or Fratricide is recorded as such!:)

BTW in aircombat over the Bekaa Valley in 1982, A SyAF Mig-25 damaged an IDF F-15A using an R-40! The F-15 made it back to its base. But the encounter is recorded as such....dumb ass!:mad:

And that list is by no means a 'List' of aces! Just because an encounter ios listed doesn't mean it becomes a kill or is recorded as one. It is just a chronology of aircombat in all theatres of the world, with the results clearly listed.


first of all i'm not a camel, i'm not living in the desert and i don't want to be treated from you like one since i'm not talking to you like that, so keep it nice if you have something to say.

the ONLY israel F-15 that was damaged was in combat training mission with couple of A-4's which the A-4 " crossed " the F-15 and " took " his wing, and the F-15 landed without a wing, yes, a total wing lost and the pilot managed to land.
thats the only damage an israeli F-15 ever had.

btw, Boieng couldn't believe that incident and after they sent their investigators for the case they paid for all of the repair of the F-15 as a tribute to the pilot who managed to do something they couldn't believe anyone will ever succeed to do with F-15, and also said they tested that kind of scenario in the F-15 test and all failed.

and thats the ONLY f-15 ever got damaged in the IAF.

[Musa a.s.]

ROFLLL

if you'll check in even 1!@#!@ place
you'll see that NO israeli aircraft got shot down in Iraq.

6 F15's escorted the F16's to the bombing and just flew around there and done nothing.
there was NO resistance in the Iraq bombing,
I didn't say Israeli F-15, it was American

[Musa a.s.]

No F-15 fighter has ever been shot down.

If you can prove it, I will paypal you $5,000.

Go on prove it. Reliable source only.
You people always doubt me and I seriously swear my right hand to Allah(swt) as I said before, I don't even get my knowledge over the computer. I get it from real life. I just so happen to find things over the net that validate my claims and what I already know. You people don't know a damn thing about me, where I've been what I've done and who I know except what I've already let be known. I got a parent that is a U.S. Intelligence Agency ex-emoployee who never even told me but I found out from another source.
You need to stop pre-judging people off of BS. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83618,00.html
Now how are we gonna make the transaction?

[4X-IL]

You people always doubt me and I seriously swear my right hand to Allah(swt) as I said before, I don't even get my knowledge over the computer. I get it from real life. I just so happen to find things over the net that validate my claims and what I already know. You people don't know a damn thing about me, where I've been what I've done and who I know except what I've already let be known. I got a parent that is a U.S. Intelligence Agency ex-emoployee who never even told me but I found out from another source.
You need to stop pre-judging people off of BS. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83618,00.html
Now how are we gonna make the transaction?


i would believe you on this one if Fox news wouldn't be the only one to report about that.
but if you'll go to google and search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=F-15+lost+over+iraq

see that you found?
1 site which is what you gave here
all the rest, nothing
not even a mentioun to any F-15 got lost, nothing, only that Fox thing.

if you'll search for F-15 lost
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=F-15+lost+

nothing, only my story from above about the wingless Israeli F-15 landed without a wing.


search F-15 losts
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=F-15+losts
nothing


search F-15 shut down by sam
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=F-15+shut+down+by+sam

not a damn 1 result about ANYTHING like that.


and if it was true, it was the first F-15 ever got shot down, and be SURE alot of aircraft lovers site will report that in SOME way, and as you see.
this is the only mention to this incident.

so i wont take Fox word for that.

[lulldapull]

first of all i'm not a camel, i'm not living in the desert and i don't want to be treated from you like one since i'm not talking to you like that, so keep it nice if you have something to say.

the ONLY israel F-15 that was damaged was in combat training mission with couple of A-4's which the A-4 " crossed " the F-15 and " took " his wing, and the F-15 landed without a wing, yes, a total wing lost and the pilot managed to land.
thats the only damage an israeli F-15 ever had.

btw, Boieng couldn't believe that incident and after they sent their investigators for the case they paid for all of the repair of the F-15 as a tribute to the pilot who managed to do something they couldn't believe anyone will ever succeed to do with F-15, and also said they tested that kind of scenario in the F-15 test and all failed.

and thats the ONLY f-15 ever got damaged in the IAF.

Yes you are a camel jockey, You guys look *******, and you guys live with Araabs!:D

now coming back to this topic, it sounds like you are a kid 4X-IL??how old are you? 15?:D

I have given you proof, that the Flanker defeated the F-15/16/18/Mirage 2000-5. What more proof do you want?:D

You want me to refer you to USAF Gen. hornburg? or Snodgras?

[4X-IL]

Yes you are a camel jockey, You guys look *******, and you guys live with Araabs!:D

now coming back to this topic, it sounds like you are a kid 4X-IL??how old are you? 15?:D

I have given you proof, that the Flanker defeated the F-15/16/18/Mirage 2000-5. What more proof do you want?:D

You want me to refer you to USAF Gen. hornburg? or Snodgras?



i'm almost 18 you idiot.

Israelis looks like arabs?
rofl when is the last time you saw an israeli?
i live far enough from arabs. thank god.

If an stupid kid like you will fly a F-15 and indian pilot will fly an Su-30MKI i'll bet he'll shut you down too.
And i'll bet you thought F-14D is better than F-16A, well here you go, Israel defeated USMC with ratio of 14:1.

and guess another thing.
Iran doesn't HAVE any SU-30 or anything even CLOSE to that, and india is one if israel's closes ally.

[MSS'S]

i would believe you on this one if Fox news wouldn't be the only one to report about that.
but if you'll go to google and search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=F-15+lost+over+iraq

see that you found?
1 site which is what you gave here
all the rest, nothing
not even a mentioun to any F-15 got lost, nothing, only that Fox thing.

if you'll search for F-15 lost
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=F-15+lost+

nothing, only my story from above about the wingless Israeli F-15 landed without a wing.


search F-15 losts
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=F-15+losts
nothing


search F-15 shut down by sam
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=F-15+shut+down+by+sam

not a damn 1 result about ANYTHING like that.


and if it was true, it was the first F-15 ever got shot down, and be SURE alot of aircraft lovers site will report that in SOME way, and as you see.
this is the only mention to this incident.

so i wont take Fox word for that.
Thats because out of ALL of my past posts, you still either don't get it or are a knowing concealer of truth. Its an emberassment. Do you honestly in your mind believe that everything that occurs is readily known and available to be known by everybody. if you do them I have to wake you up right here and right now. The whole world uses propaganda and covers things up.
Get in the game will ya? Or maybe you're already here????? The U.S. deems that a classified case and it became known right after it happened so they could'nt intercept the first broadcast of it because it was too late. You shouldn't believe everything that is given to you, nobody should without thorogh and detailed investigation. But Israelis show a dirt poor track record in being honest and not willingly deceitful.

[attitude]

Israeli's are very decieptful. In the 2000 Olympic games in Sydney. The security team that came with the Israeli's wre all arrested at the gates of the athletes village after the Aussie SAS caught them trying to enter with sub machine guns. I know your gonna say Oh Munich Israel was protecting their athlete's. What do Israeli's think their Army is the best and only their trained security can protect. The Australian SAS was all over the Olympics as was the regular army most ly plane clothes or dressed as police. And the Australian SAS are better than the Israeli's equivelent or the various American equivalents. American Generals rate Australia' SAS the worlds best. Cocky Israeli's think they can do what ever they want. 4X-IL its plainly obvious you get all your info from mostly israeli sources and American. In Australia we have news reports about how the American media doesnt report alot of stuff to the public. Now 4X-IL i know im a junior member who hasnt been in this forum long, but all the posts you do seem to piss of people. Plus one F-15 has been shot down. By another F-15 by accident in Alaska in the early 90's. I have the attrition report in airforce's monthly. I'll dig through my stockpile of mags and find the article and scan it in and send it. The pilot ejected and was safe and i was explained in the report why the Sidewinder fired on its own. The pilot of the F-15 that fired the Aim-9m was not courtmartialed but he was transfered to Japan.

[4X-IL]

Israeli's are very decieptful. In the 2000 Olympic games in Sydney. The security team that came with the Israeli's wre all arrested at the gates of the athletes village after the Aussie SAS caught them trying to enter with sub machine guns. I know your gonna say Oh Munich Israel was protecting their athlete's. What do Israeli's think their Army is the best and only their trained security can protect. The Australian SAS was all over the Olympics as was the regular army most ly plane clothes or dressed as police. And the Australian SAS are better than the Israeli's equivelent or the various American equivalents. American Generals rate Australia' SAS the worlds best. Cocky Israeli's think they can do what ever they want. 4X-IL its plainly obvious you get all your info from mostly israeli sources and American. In Australia we have news reports about how the American media doesnt report alot of stuff to the public. Now 4X-IL i know im a junior member who hasnt been in this forum long, but all the posts you do seem to piss of people. Plus one F-15 has been shot down. By another F-15 by accident in Alaska in the early 90's. I have the attrition report in airforce's monthly. I'll dig through my stockpile of mags and find the article and scan it in and send it. The pilot ejected and was safe and i was explained in the report why the Sidewinder fired on its own. The pilot of the F-15 that fired the Aim-9m was not courtmartialed but he was transfered to Japan.


first i'll start from the end, i don't know about the accident you're talking about, and if no place in the internet mention it, how could i know about it?.

now,
first of all, of course my posts are upseting evreyone ( almost evreyone ) cause if you've noticed there're something like 2 sides in here, 1 is the israelis which is isr-agent, Shohad, snauhi, Yoni, and me, and couple of more reasonable people which are not from israel.
and ther other side, which support Iran.
Of course my posts is upseting the other side, no one like to hear the truth he doesn't want to hear, am i right?.

now,you just lied,
Israel security never brought any guns to Australia,
All teams were banned from bringing guns and israel didn't had a big problem with that, and no one brought any weapons, and no one got arrested.
the only thing close to that is the 1984 olympic games in Los angeles when the security got caught try to bring guns in their bags, and nothing happened to them after.

but just for your knowledge, IDF units never and WILL never escort any olympic team to anywhere, and believe me, if Sayeret Matcal wanted to bring rifels to Austrials while the olympic games, they would.

and i don't understand that, if the security brought guns, you said " I know your gonna say Oh Munich Israel was protecting their athlete's "
I don't know whats your point, so actually what you're saying is that the security guard wanted to commit a massacare in Australia? that some big accusation don't you think?

[MSS'S]

How Can You Possibly Say That, Were You There At The Time?

[Kilo877]

Of course my posts is upseting the other side, no one like to hear the truth he doesn't want to hear, am i right?.

4X-IL does this mean that everything you post is the truth?.....thats a big claim to make!

Yes you are a camel jockey, You guys look *******, and you guys live with Araabs!

Aren't all the jewish settlers originally european or american not arabs, this is why there is so much trouble in Palestine today.

and i don't understand that, if the security brought guns, you said " I know your gonna say Oh Munich Israel was protecting their athlete's "
I don't know whats your point, so actually what you're saying is that the security guard wanted to commit a massacare in Australia? that some big accusation don't you think?

Well the Israeli secret service (Mossad I think they are called) did go round europe trying to hunt down members of black september group after what happened in munich and ended up killing some innocent guy just because he was an arab.

[4X-IL]

4X-IL does this mean that everything you post is the truth?.....thats a big claim to make!



Aren't all the jewish settlers originally european or american not arabs, this is why there is so much trouble in Palestine today.



Well the Israeli secret service (Mossad I think they are called) did go round europe trying to hunt down members of black september group after what happened in munich and ended up killing some innocent guy just because he was an arab.

Yea, RIGHT.

[attitude]

first i'll start from the end, i don't know about the accident you're talking about, and if no place in the internet mention it, how could i know about it?.

now,
first of all, of course my posts are upseting evreyone ( almost evreyone ) cause if you've noticed there're something like 2 sides in here, 1 is the israelis which is isr-agent, Shohad, snauhi, Yoni, and me, and couple of more reasonable people which are not from israel.
and ther other side, which support Iran.
Of course my posts is upseting the other side, no one like to hear the truth he doesn't want to hear, am i right?.

now,you just lied,
Israel security never brought any guns to Australia,
All teams were banned from bringing guns and israel didn't had a big problem with that, and no one brought any weapons, and no one got arrested.
the only thing close to that is the 1984 olympic games in Los angeles when the security got caught try to bring guns in their bags, and nothing happened to them after.

but just for your knowledge, IDF units never and WILL never escort any olympic team to anywhere, and believe me, if Sayeret Matcal wanted to bring rifels to Austrials while the olympic games, they would.

and i don't understand that, if the security brought guns, you said " I know your gonna say Oh Munich Israel was protecting their athlete's "
I don't know whats your point, so actually what you're saying is that the security guard wanted to commit a massacare in Australia? that some big accusation don't you think?

oh so you are calling me a lierer you little 18 year old prick. First off all No **** they are not allowed to bring guns to the olympics but thats exactly what they did.
Secondly it was on the news that night and footage of the israeli's getting busted and bundled off into a van and the guns on display was all over our television screens because our media reports news unlike yours. It wouldnt even have made it on the news in israel because your government would censor it to avoid embarressment. If you bothered to read my post properly you low I.Q simpleton, you would see that i wasnt saying the security guard was going to do a massacre dickhead. I was saying that the israeli government is decieptfull because it sent its own armed guards to the olympics thinking we couldnt handle it.
I used the army term as a generalization for an armed group. If you want to get technical about it. It could have been mossad, who knows the point is it definetely happened boy. You talk about the IDF like you served. Big deal 18 year old child
You guys cant even build a bridge properly. How many jewish Australian athletes were killed at the maccabiah games a few years ago because your poorly built bridge collapse plunging the Australian team into that polluted river.
Dont call a person a lier because you are a ignorent poorly educated low I.Q idiot.
I served 6 years in the Australian army.
I was serving in East Timor when you were still getting your arse kicked by girls at school.

An by the way. Australian F-18 vs Israeli what ever

We win every time if it happened. Our training is better than Israel's anyday.

[4X-IL]

oh so you are calling me a lierer you little 18 year old prick. First off all No **** they are not allowed to bring guns to the olympics but thats exactly what they did.
Secondly it was on the news that night and footage of the israeli's getting busted and bundled off into a van and the guns on display was all over our television screens because our media reports news unlike yours. It wouldnt even have made it on the news in israel because your government would censor it to avoid embarressment. If you bothered to read my post properly you low I.Q simpleton, you would see that i wasnt saying the security guard was going to do a massacre dickhead. I was saying that the israeli government is decieptfull because it sent its own armed guards to the olympics thinking we couldnt handle it.
I used the army term as a generalization for an armed group. If you want to get technical about it. It could have been mossad, who knows the point is it definetely happened boy. You talk about the IDF like you served. Big deal 18 year old child
You guys cant even build a bridge properly. How many jewish Australian athletes were killed at the maccabiah games a few years ago because your poorly built bridge collapse plunging the Australian team into that polluted river.
Dont call a person a lier because you are a ignorent poorly educated low I.Q idiot.
I served 6 years in the Australian army.
I was serving in East Timor when you were still getting your arse kicked by girls at school.

An by the way. Australian F-18 vs Israeli what ever

We win every time if it happened. Our training is better than Israel's anyday.


lol
damn you funny
a grown up man talking like that to a low I.Q kid?
is that a bit childish for you?

get me a proof we tried to smuggle guns into the olympics.
of course
the australian are the best in evreything.

even israel which is one of the smalles armys in the western world have a bigger army than the 42,000 ( including reserve ) soldier australian army.
wtf are you talking about?

how many elite units australia have? 3? 5?


its funny how evreyone thinks their country is the best and we're the israelis the only one who doesn't say it but someone is saying for us.

did i said israel is better than australia?

your case is not even real, and you talking about we thinking your army is suck and we're good?
since when australia is an enemy of israel?
get a life

[attitude]

typical child think your the man yes you are a child and the way you act in this forum proves it. This forum is suppose to be for constructive argument about topics. You seem to think you are right about everything and everyone else is wrong. It happened so deal with it or get over it. We arent surrounded by enemies like israel so we dont need a large military. But ours is elite and we dont have to conscript our soldiers unlike the israeli's. We dont run over American teenage girls with bulldozers like the Israeli army does. 4X-IL if you are gonna be in this forum have constuctive arguments and stop thinking your right all the time. And the way you answered proves that you just follow what you see on the news and read on the net. A true fool is a person who believe's the governement of any country. Dont believe the news boy. Its a sad fact of life in this world that the Truth is very rarely spoken between the hours of 9 to 9
I bet you wouldnt even know that Ariel Sharon ordered a masacre at a Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon in 82

I like your posts when you are talking about the military in what ever form. Dont insult people or call them liars.
We can have some very constructive arguments in the future if you grow up a bit and be cool.
I can get over it if you can.
And Israel should have bought the F-18e instead of the F-16i
much better aircraft by far

[Janbaz]

Guys, Iran should invest their money in demostic Jet fighter development, even if it takes 50 years to come up with some thing as good as F-14. To rely on self is much better than to rely on others. We learned the lessons during Iran-Iraq war and Iran is not going to change it's mind for that reason. Iran is now spending a lot of money on R&D for Engine development and at the same time spending a lot of money on sub sonic fighter/trainer development. Iran is on the right track.

[Yoni45]

typical child think your the man yes you are a child and the way you act in this forum proves it. This forum is suppose to be for constructive argument about topics. You seem to think you are right about everything and everyone else is wrong. It happened so deal with it or get over it. We arent surrounded by enemies like israel so we dont need a large military. But ours is elite and we dont have to conscript our soldiers unlike the israeli's. We dont run over American teenage girls with bulldozers like the Israeli army does. 4X-IL if you are gonna be in this forum have constuctive arguments and stop thinking your right all the time. And the way you answered proves that you just follow what you see on the news and read on the net. A true fool is a person who believe's the governement of any country. Dont believe the news boy. Its a sad fact of life in this world that the Truth is very rarely spoken between the hours of 9 to 9
I bet you wouldnt even know that Ariel Sharon ordered a masacre at a Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon in 82

I like your posts when you are talking about the military in what ever form. Dont insult people or call them liars.
We can have some very constructive arguments in the future if you grow up a bit and be cool.
I can get over it if you can.
And Israel should have bought the F-18e instead of the F-16i
much better aircraft by far

Its intresting you go on ranting about constructive argument, yet at the same time don't offer any yourself.

First off, what do you base your "Elite" army claims on? Care to show a source on that? Any serious combat experience you can bring to the table? Has this supposedly "Elite" army of yours ever proven itself?

In that category, I don't think I need to reference anything since Israel's reputation speaks for itself, but if the need arises that shouldn't be too hard.

Moving on, what "constructive argument" do you offer for this supposed fact that the Super Hornet (F-18E) is "better" than the F-16I? I tried looking around for resources, although a direct comparison is incredibly hard to find.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-656-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html

The folks in that forum however seem lean towards the F-16 (in general, not even the F-16i model) being the more capable jet.

I'm also not sure as to how it relates to the topic, but Sharon didn't "order" a massacre in Lebanon in 1982. There was a massacre, by christian lebanese militia, but this was far from ordered by Sharon, and I'd like to see a (credible) source that says otherwise.

[arteshi]

but guys the question is why the Iranian officers and pilots still prefer US fighters like F15E or F16

Insted of wasting time , Iran can afford to have the best russian Fighters like Su30, Su35, Su37

it should be somthing different from US fighters and Russian Fighters that IRIAF Like.

Hopefully in the next few years the Iranians will become our friends, then we have no problem selling them our planes. By the way how long do you think the Russians can keep up with refurbishing the same old SU 27's and MIG 29's?
In the US of A new generations of fighters are ten times better than anything those Russians can afford to manufacture.

[korosh_kabir]

Hopefully in the next few years the Iranians will become our friends, then we have no problem selling them our planes.
ues when both ahamdinejad and bush are gone:)

[uppal340]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..........................................po ors

[uppal340]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..........................................po ors,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

[Sarge]

mig-29 itself is also better than F-16 :) .

*edit*- I also heard Indian mig-21's were a pain in the ass for those F-15s......
Let me correct everyone, and write a fact for once.

Both the Russina Sukhoi Su-37 Terminator, and the Sukhoi line of planes for that matter, and the American F-15’s, F-16'S, and F-18's are on par with each other as Air superiority aircraft.

The ability to shot down each others aircraft depends on two key factors.
The pilots, and technology used inside Plane. For example if we take Israel, we are aware that their pilots are well trained, and use technology which seems to be superior to its American counterpart. However, this is one example from a sea of existing nations with this aircraft.

Again mark my words, it all depends on the pilot and technology behind it.

[Snauhi]

Let me correct everyone, and write a fact for once.

Both the Russina Sukhoi Su-37 Terminator, and the Sukhoi line of planes for that matter, and the American F-15’s, F-16'S, and F-18's are on par with each other as Air superiority aircraft.

The ability to shot down each others aircraft depends on two key factors.
The pilots, and technology used inside Plane. In Israel case, we are aware that their pilots are well trained, and use technology which seems to be superior to its American counterpart. However, this is one example from a sea of existing nations with this aircraft.

Again mark my words, it all depends on the pilot and technology behind it.
Yeah good post Sarge

[MiG 31]

Yeah good post Sarge

yeah...good sucking up Snauhi......

[Sarge]

yeah...good sucking up Snauhi......
Hello MIG31, same person which was known as MIG29 and argued with me about the arrow system.

Your IP's matched when you first registered to forums by admins.

[Snauhi]

yeah...good sucking up Snauhi......

What can i say if i compleatly agree?

[Benzeen]

I tohugh he wpuld love thos new F-15 block 60's! BUt Su-30 is Iran primary need right now!

[Benzeen]

o btw Indian af v USAF? lmao! plzz US would turn them into curry!

US was doing it with severe handicaps to make the competiont a bit fair.

[Snauhi]

I tohugh he wpuld love thos new F-15 block 60's! BUt Su-30 is Iran primary need right now!

Iran wont get it in a time.

[Tbagger]

This thread deserves to be bumped.

[Alex]

worng post

[Tbagger]

the ONLY israel F-15 that was damaged was in combat training mission with couple of A-4's which the A-4 " crossed " the F-15 and " took " his wing, and the F-15 landed without a wing, yes, a total wing lost and the pilot managed to land.
thats the only damage an israeli F-15 ever had.

and thats the ONLY f-15 ever got damaged in the IAF.

Nope, a Syrian fighter has damaged an Israeli F-15 with an AA-10 Alamo before.

[4X-IL]

Nope, a Syrian fighter has damaged an Israeli F-15 with an AA-10 Alamo before.


Nope.

Got no idea who gave you this info, wether it from ACIG or any other " List ", but the only F-15 got damaged in Israel was the one I stated before.

[Tbagger]

Nope.

Got no idea who gave you this info, wether it from ACIG or any other " List ", but the only F-15 got damaged in Israel was the one I stated before.
I've read on other boards and articles that one Israeli F-15 was indeed damaged by an AA-10. Seriously, you need to stop thinking of Israel as a "Super Country".

[Reticula]

[COLOR="Black"][B]Patchwork Procurement
Yet Iran also seems unwilling to join other nations that cannot or will not purchase a U.S. fighter and which instead opt for an advanced variant of the Sukhoi Su-30 or MiG-29. Most Iranian aerospace officials still have a definite preference for U.S.-built aircraft. At last year’s Iran airshow one official told AIN that if he could pick any fighter in the world to have in his inventory “it would be the Boeing F-15.” for now Maybe the average Iranian IQ really is 84.:(
Israel doesn't even trust the F-15 Eagle and instead desired the F-15I(Israel) and these goonies want the F-15 Eagle?
I'll take a MiG 33 anyday over an Eagle.

[Tbagger]

Just to let you know, the F-15I is made in the US.

Israel not trusting the F-15, this is probably the dumbest comment I've read this week. :rolleyes:

[Reticula]

Unless you pay attention to what you'vfe just said. Israel trashes U.S. avionics and install their own hardware.

[Tbagger]

Unless you pay attention to what you'vfe just said. Israel trashes U.S. avionics and install their own hardware.
They don't trash it. They install their own stuff because some of our systems are classified. As for the F-15/16I, we sold them to Israel without any of the systems. The radars on the F-15/16I are still American though.

[Assili]

Maybe the average Iranian IQ really is 84.:(
Israel doesn't even trust the F-15 Eagle and instead desired the F-15I(Israel) and these goonies want the F-15 Eagle?
I'll take a MiG 33 anyday over an Eagle.
Hi,
G! Guys! take a chill Pill!!! I don't know much about Mig 30 or 33, but I do know that:
A: Israel has a very advanced technology and are able to moify military equipment for extra kick, so if they modify F-15 eagles; it is hardly a surprise!
B: It does not require a genious to realise that in the past 30 years since both F14, and F15 came about, hardly a plane has distinguished it self in combat as these two monsters. they are like nightmare on skies, with little simpathy for their victoms!
I hardly trust Russian planes that have never shown any remarkable air superiority over their American/French counterparts!!! History shows that Russian planes lack the agility, radar capability, and the fire power to overcome either today's F15s, or 14s or future 22, or JSF!

I could be wrong though!! :)

[Assili]

4X-IL does this mean that everything you post is the truth?.....thats a big claim to make!



Aren't all the jewish settlers originally european or american not arabs, this is why there is so much trouble in Palestine today.



Well the Israeli secret service (Mossad I think they are called) did go round europe trying to hunt down members of black september group after what happened in munich and ended up killing some innocent guy just because he was an arab.
GUYS!!!!

Are we so free to start bashing each other??? tell you the truth the hole Midd east fiasco is a show down for others to suck people dry!!!

here we are a reagon of about 400 - 500 million fighting over DUST!!! PLEASE! can any of you gents tell me what is the difference between an Arab, and A Jew? I tell U! Nothing! they are simply cusins!!! Sam, and Juda were both sons of Prophet Jaacob(PBHS),! Now they are enemies! How sad!

lets talk planes! who cares about politics??? come on gus make up! hell with the polititions

[Assili]

first of all i'm not a camel, i'm not living in the desert and i don't want to be treated from you like one since i'm not talking to you like that, so keep it nice if you have something to say.

the ONLY israel F-15 that was damaged was in combat training mission with couple of A-4's which the A-4 " crossed " the F-15 and " took " his wing, and the F-15 landed without a wing, yes, a total wing lost and the pilot managed to land.
thats the only damage an israeli F-15 ever had.

btw, Boieng couldn't believe that incident and after they sent their investigators for the case they paid for all of the repair of the F-15 as a tribute to the pilot who managed to do something they couldn't believe anyone will ever succeed to do with F-15, and also said they tested that kind of scenario in the F-15 test and all failed.

and thats the ONLY f-15 ever got damaged in the IAF.
Guys! I saw a report on the Discovery Wings in London regarding the mentioned F15!!! and I saw the interview with the pilot! from what was shown from the cocpitof the other F15, the said plane was flying with only one wing!! and did Land safely at it's home base.

the pilot said that when he made a backward dive and fired at the Mig, parts of the disintegrated mig hits the wing and make the damage.

I was very surprised, but i did see it in TV!!! :))

[Assili]

Syria has shot down several F16's and F15's with mig 23's!

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_272.shtml
My friend! I hardly belive that an incompetent plane such as Mig 23 would even get near a F15/16, nevermind shooting it!!!

I refer to the Iranian encounters with the said plane, even less capable planes such as F5/4 were more that successful against Mig 23!

[TOMMYJO]

Guys! I saw a report on the Discovery Wings in London regarding the mentioned F15!!! and I saw the interview with the pilot! from what was shown from the cocpitof the other F15, the said plane was flying with only one wing!! and did Land safely at it's home base.

the pilot said that when he made a backward dive and fired at the Mig, parts of the disintegrated mig hits the wing and make the damage.

I was very surprised, but i did see it in TV!!! :))

The last part of the story you are incorrect on. The pilot of the F-15 was Zivi Nedivi. He has been on TV on a number of occassions. The collision was with an Israeli A-4 Skyhawk during dissimilar air combat training. He made no mention of any combat with a MiG or shooting any down.

The images on the right of this series are real. The images on the left are clips from the Discovery History Channel re-creation and are photo edited to produce the wing missing.

http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/110099.jpg

Details from Zivi Nedivi on the loss of the wing after collision with the A-4:

http://www.uss-bennington.org/phz-nowing-f15.html

[Night]

U.S. planes are garbage.

Yeah, The F-15's 103:0 kill ratio proves this completely :huh2:

Really think that? Post here:

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=3299

[panzer1029]

Iran will not declare any buying of military equipment because if they say American will use its power in UN for put more resolution and sanction on Iran.