NATO & America losses in Serbia 1999. [Archive] - Page 2

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DeepEyes

09-09-2006, 09:54 PM

Im not gonna comment this because this is funny and false fact that Milosevic es propaganda machine distributed to those serbs who were dumb and didnt know that that is imposible,

If it was so easy to shoot down aircrafts no one would build them.NATO airplanes have so many counter-measures and evasive manuevers that you cant comprehend :)

When NATO crafts are so much perfect why F-117 was shut down with SAM that is built in 1964(Sa-3 NEVA) on the fourth day of Agression?Don't you think that stuff like that could hapend again.There are NATO crafts that are not "STELT".And Yugoslav Air Defence had more advanced SAMs than Sa-3.

DeepEyes

09-09-2006, 09:55 PM

Serbs are obvious criminals and aggressors... 3300 serbian civilians died and
63,244 bosnian civilians...... and bosnian army didnt have 5% of equipment that serbian did ...

Yeah, from all 63,244 Bosniaks who died, 63,244 are civilians!!! Well this is propaganda!You sound just like CNN.

Danno

09-10-2006, 05:51 AM

DeepEyes

09-11-2006, 06:35 PM

There is also the fact (confirmed by NATO)that another one F-117 was damaged during the agression.
You see, NATO only confess losts that have been proved.When first f-117 has been shot down, NATO said that it is Yugoslav Mig-29, and later,under pression of evidence, they confessed.

During all agression there was ground attacks on Yu from Albania.Albanian terorists,NATO forces, attack Yu on border areas near YU bases of "Gorozup" and "Kosare", but NATO sad that there is no groung operations,because NATO were unsucessful.
So there was NATO and YU propaganda.Where is the truth???

Iraq is mostly flat,desert country,but Serbia is covered with mountines,forests.It is wery easy to hide sams,tanks... all forces.Also Yugoslav military upgraded anti-aircraft systems so they can be more effective, that why Yu was more succesful then Iraq.And that's why NATO didn't use "Apaches".

Also YU is wery small country, and some of shut downed crafts fell in Hungary,Croatia,Bosnia...

Danno

09-11-2006, 06:42 PM

I dislike the fact that you are reffering Albanians fighters as terrorists but you claim that your army were soldiers? Do NOT make me bring in any discussion regarding massacare of albanian civilians because this debate will obviously not end as long as your attitude remains so defensive for Serbia.

Im getting tired of this since you will keep being in denial of what has happened in former republic of Yugoslavia.

It is rather sad.. i feel sorry for you to feel this way the war has brought so much hate I myself am trying to forget all the horror and we were the ones most affected by this horrid war. All you keep thinking is about the great Serbia. Now your BNP capita is one of the worst in whole of Europe. If i were you i would move out.. i sure as hell left that forsaken place. But i will NEVER forget who I am, where i am from and what happened down there.. NEVER. You my friend you may think whatever you like.

Sanchezz

09-11-2006, 06:51 PM

When NATO crafts are so much perfect why F-117 was shut down with SAM that is built in 1964(Sa-3 NEVA) on the fourth day of Agression?Don't you think that stuff like that could hapend again.There are NATO crafts that are not "STELT".And Yugoslav Air Defence had more advanced SAMs than Sa-3.

Couple of NATO airplanes were shot down over serbia because they were not carefull and actualy didnt worry much about serbian air defence.... they were on picnic :smile1: And also some informations leaked to the serbian goverment from nato hq so serb military knew when air strikes will come.And planes that were shot down is because they were passing through "spiders net" formation of serbian AA Guns that fired in a line ... and the f-117 that was destroyed-it was an accidental shot... and rocket didnt hit him but a shell from AA Gun when it was flying low (again pilot didnt follow HQ instructions) .... It was not power of serb AA forces that destroyed couple of NATO planes , simply nato pilots have not been carefull enaugh... and that cost them couple of planes.. But never the less serbian ecconomy was heavily damaged and serb forces were forced to retreat from kosovo... mission accomplished with minimal losses...

DeepEyes

09-11-2006, 09:57 PM

KLA (UCK) WAS a Terorist organization, this is official international fact.USA confirm that!
(But we can call it: paramilitary..., but then Al-Quida(don't know) are fighters not terorists too.
It doesn't matter, you missed the point.During all agression(since 24.03.1999.) there was GROUND operations, NATO and Albanian army(I made a mistake) ground forces attacked Yugoslavia FROM ALBANIA on Yu-Albanian border.Did you know that? And NATO said that there was NO ground operations.Think like this, NATO don't tell truth always.

If you want to talk about victims,and massacares talk about victims on all sides.But not here!Open new topic.

When you mention "Great Serbia", you may also mention "Great Croatia"(NDH,Nazi Croatia), Unia of Albanic Countries("Great Albania"),Reincarnation of Otoman empire on Balkan, "Green Transversal".

You just don't want to except that Yu army shot down some of NATO planes.If it was 1 shot downed F-117, and one damaged.And they were "STELT",what could happened with crafts that aren't STELT?

DeepEyes

09-11-2006, 09:58 PM

"Shanchezz", I guess knows everything.Where did you find that info?Did you see it on CNN?You beleve them, CNN,NATO,BBC...? What they said about Iraqi's weapons of mass destruction?Did they find it in Iraq?

Danno

09-12-2006, 11:00 AM

Danno

09-12-2006, 11:19 AM

Danno

09-12-2006, 11:23 AM

Sanchezz

09-12-2006, 12:15 PM

spirit

09-12-2006, 05:43 PM

The fact that serbia shot down the f-117 was a suprise to everyone because it IS a stealth fighter.. but it is not impossible to shoot it down though.. but if it was so then i asume those planes would have been shot down in Iraq aswell.(All they shot down was a helicopter)

What i personally belive is that it was a slight bit of luck that played a roll in that crash.

Americans sad that they didn’t lost single tank in Iraq!!! LOL:roflmao3:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/xinsrc_c0976de3b78f43c2af0cc495121f.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/xinsrc_bca61d3a9882414ab22419a7e6e8.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/album_pic-1.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/image002.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/437abrams2a.jpg

spirit

09-12-2006, 05:46 PM

No you don't. What you have is the remnants of the very poor propaganda campaign that was instigated by the then Yugoslav Ministry of Information. They created the stories of the raids on Tuzla, Bosnia and Rinas, Albania. The Yugoslav Air Force were disgusted by their actions. The ghost writers of the Yugoslav Ministry of Information even altered the post combat reports of the Yugoslav MiG-29 unit 127 Lae. The pilots combat stories were altered to give them air-to-air kills against NATO aircraft when in fact them claimed none before being shot down themselves.

The claims of air raids on Rinas and Tuzla are laughable when you read the stories created on the web. The people who created them did no research into them. For example part of the Russian element of SFOR in Bosnia was stationed at the airfield of Tuzla. Strange isn't it that the Russian Colonel and his staff did not see an air raid on the airfield. The Rinas airbase was used by the United Nations for relief aid flights. Russian transports also participatd in these aid flights. Strange that the flights were not stopped due to any air raid and neutral nations participating saw no air raids.

The stories you have were nothing more than very cheap propaganda which the Yugoslav Air Force distance themselves completely.

After the conflict the truth about the disinformation campaign was revealed by Bojan Bugarcic on 25th November 1999. Bugarcic, was the Senior Advisor on International Affairs to Yugoslav President Milosevic.

He [Bugarcic] said that, throughout the war, a tremendous, and extremely effective, propaganda campaign had been mounted by the Serbian military. The aim was to keep the populace believing their forces were mounting a spirited defence. "Using the state broadcaster, unofficial 'Russian intelligence' web pages and Army communiqués, the deception had been so successful that many people were fooled. My 22-year-old translator, Vlada Kopric, was one example. While he vehemently denounced the government-controlled RTS media network as spouting 'pure lies,' his explorations on the Internet had led him to the bogus Russian intelligence site. As a result, up until my November interview with Bugarcic, Vlada had truly believed that the Serbian military had successfully shot down 78 NATO aircraft. "He was devestated when he learned the truth."

Storey goes like this;
Group of Serbian aircraft form over Serbia (4 attack boomers and 4 fighters).
From Yugoslavia they cross in to Bosnia heading to Tuzla. When they come near the Tuzla airport NATO fighters are on the runway ready for take of. Then Serbian attack boomers hit those aircraft that are preparing to take of, after that they attack hangers, ammo storages and other aircraft still on the ground.
Then NATO AA weaponry opens up and one Mig-21 was destroyed other one was damaged.
Group finishes there attack and starts to escaping to Yugoslavia. One damaged Mig-21 crash-lands in Yugoslavia.
NATO lost 6 aircraft (2 on runway 4 in hangers) 1 helicopter, some ammo and fuel.
Tuzla airport was crippled and needed repairs.
One guy from Tuzla sad to me that he herd some explosions coming form airport on that day. He told me that on TV they sad that NATO had some accident. For your information he is Bosnjak!
Think for one second, just think, what would happen if NATO seed “YUGOSLAVIAN AIR FORCE BOOMED OUR AIRPORT IN TUZLA”.

spirit

09-12-2006, 05:49 PM

spirit

09-12-2006, 05:52 PM

from "KLA (UCK) WAS a Terorist organization, this is official international fact.USA confirm that!"

So when USA confirms something bad about your enemies its OK but if they confirm something bad against serbia its BBC propaganda? give me a break

Albanians living on Kosovo are extremists, they don’t care, they want big Albania and they do what ever is necessary.
They were first to challenge JNA in 80s well before civil war in Yugoslavia!

PS:BBC specks only words coming from Washington:tired1_24:

spirit

09-12-2006, 05:55 PM

exactly ...you coldnt beat bosnia and croatia with you army... (bosnia didnt have any army at the beggining of the war and croatia only had few guerilla troops... but in the end croatians kicked out all serbs from croatia and bosnian continued "storm" offensive and regained 51% of the territory... (serbs held 84%at the beggining of the war ... and ended up with 49% that is stil part of bosnia and will be integrated completly withig 10-15 years. And you are claiming that you can defeat NATO if kosovo claims independence ???? dont make me laugh :wub2:

There is one thing you forgot Republika Srpska lives on to fight another day.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/Vojska-RS.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/626-rs.gif

Sanchezz

09-12-2006, 06:09 PM

Americans sad that they didn’t lost single tank in Iraq!!! LOL:roflmao3:

can u give me link where US officials told that ?? and please dont give me a link that is from first cople of war in iraq when us realy didnt lost any tanks as i have a fealing you will give me.

Sto[QUOTE]rey goes like this;
Group of Serbian aircraft form over Serbia (4 attack boomers and 4 fighters).
From Yugoslavia they cross in to Bosnia heading to Tuzla. When they come near the Tuzla airport NATO fighters are on the runway ready for take of. Then Serbian attack boomers hit those aircraft that are preparing to take of, after that they attack hangers, ammo storages and other aircraft still on the ground.
Then NATO AA weaponry opens up and one Mig-21 was destroyed other one was damaged.
Group finishes there attack and starts to escaping to Yugoslavia. One damaged Mig-21 crash-lands in Yugoslavia.
NATO lost 6 aircraft (2 on runway 4 in hangers) 1 helicopter, some ammo and fuel.
Tuzla airport was crippled and needed repairs.
One guy from Tuzla sad to me that he herd some explosions coming form airport on that day. He told me that on TV they sad that NATO had some accident. For your information he is Bosnjak!
Think for one second, just think, what would happen if NA

:roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: what happend after u woke up :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3:

Serbs didn’t lost war in Bosnia, there is one simple thing to prove that Republika Srpska.
Serbs in Croatia lost war; Republika Srpska Krajna fell because orders from Belgrade came to do so. It was act of Milosevic, he betrayed Republiku Srpsku Krajnu! i would rather say that 250 000 croatian soldiers that obtained more equipment won the war in croatia than milosevic :D

and serbian plan was to annex bosnia... insted you got an "entity" with no army and wich institutions will dissapear in next 10 years... and RS probably in 15.

Albanians living on Kosovo are extremists, they don’t care, they want big Albania and they do what ever is necessary.
They were first to challenge JNA in 80s well before civil war in Yugoslavia!

PS:BBC specks only words coming from Washington

Albanians are gaining independence and you cant do anything about it.And you know whats the couse of that YOUR STUPID IMPERIALISTIC POLICY.

DeepEyes

09-12-2006, 08:17 PM

however you may think according to the first post that brought attention says "Total: 61 aircraft, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and over 238 cruise missiles. These numbers include only those NATO aircraft that crashed in Yugoslavia"

61 aircraft + 7 helicopters = 68 flying veichles.
Know this, 68 flying veichles LEAVE 68 WRECKS. We have only seen TWO.

I'd never confirm that numbers.But it's quite possible that it is truth.But I think that it is less then ~ 68 crafts,I don't have exact number,as I said earlier,but I beleve it is a two digits number.At the begining of agression NATO used 280 planes and at the end about 1500(i read somewhere,not shure). 68 shot downed crafts will be 4.5% of whole used airforce and that is not good "score".
You saw what's left of the "F-16" and "F-117". Sometimes you cann't see what plane was some wreck.I don't want to repeat myself.And YU government known that they cannot show some pile of iron and say "This was F-15..." Understood? The fact about shot downed F-117, one damaged F-117... showed that it is a quite possible to shoot down NATO planes.And that Anti-Aircrfat systems form 60's 70's and 80's are still usable. The biggest diference between them and new ones are: time that is need to lock target and fire; and sensebility of a radar. New Russian's radars for example can detect any "STELT" craft.
From the other side, during agression, wreck of NATO's planes are searched by foot.Yu Air Force didn't have surveillance carafts like NATO had, and finding NATO planes wreck was wery hard.
In 3-4 years NATO will tell us a truth.

DeepEyes

09-12-2006, 08:22 PM

And also Yu army shooting down all the NATO planes seem so unlike since the great so called army Lost all the wars it waged, they got defeated by Croatians some Bosnians and even Albanians not being defeated or at least affected by such poor military would mean that you are no match for NATO and its technology.

Both croatian, bosnian and albanian army were powerless against serbia yet they still held their ground and YOU withdrew. Its time to face the facts and stop being so much in denial.. embaressing

Wow, it's painful when I mention "Great Albania","NDH" and "Green Transversal".No hard feelings it is not personal.
This is not topic about Bosnia war, and I don't want to repeat myself.Go on previous pages and read some.But,also in 1995 NATO attacked Serbs in Bosnia too,that's why Croats and Muslim was so effective.What happened with Serbs in 1995, was not military question, it's more political.

And about Kosovo and Metohia... in 1999, Yu army, was fighting against "KLA"(UCK) on Kosovo and Metohia;NATO Air Froce; and NATO ground troops and "Albanian army" on YU-ALB borderline.They DIDN'T succeed to enter on Kosovo and Metohia from Albania during war. If they WIN, why now there are negotiations about status of Kosovo and Metohia?
Also Yu Army didn't succeed to defend YU from NATO Air Forces, this is a fact.But also "Enemy" didn't get what he wanted.Now there are UN on Kosovo and Metohia, not NATO.There is a difference(theoreticaly), but practicly it is the same.UN can't guarantee seafty for non-Albanians(Serbs) on Kosovo and Metohia, look what was happened in 17th and 18th March 2005.

DeepEyes

09-12-2006, 08:23 PM

from "KLA (UCK) WAS a Terorist organization, this is official international fact.USA confirm that!"

So when USA confirms something bad about your enemies its OK but if they confirm something bad against serbia its BBC propaganda? give me a break

KLA (UCK) is on UN world terorists list.Just like IRA,Al-Quida... the Fact.

Problem with Kosovo and Metohia (Albanians and Serbs), is over 150 years old.It can't be solved for only 5-6 years.

It is ok to fight for independence politicaly, respecting international law,also there are moral and ethic principle and rights that need to be respected.

Ask yourself, why Albanians have right to get independence from Serbia and Serbs in "Republika Srpska" don't have same rihgt to get independence from Bosnia and Hercegovina, or Serbs in Croatia don't have right to get independence from Croatia, and there is also problem in Northen Ireland, Korsica(France), Bascia(Spain), Trento-Aldige(Italy),Checenya(Russia)...

But now there are Dayton agreement and Resolution of 1244 that guarantee integrity of Balkan's countries borders.It would be best not to violate that agremments.

DeepEyes

09-12-2006, 08:41 PM

and serbian plan was to annex bosnia...

NO that is not true! Serbs in Bosnia don't want to separate from YU. And they form "Republika Srpska", in order to stay in Yugoslavia.In 1994, "Srpska" had about 70-80% of Bosnia's area, also Bosnian Serbs want to leave 20% of "Srpska" to Croats and Bosniaks in the interests of peace.So Bosnian Serbs want to separate from Bosnia, parts of Bosnia where they are majority.

Danno

09-13-2006, 08:32 AM

Sanchezz

09-13-2006, 09:03 AM

NO that is not true! Serbs in Bosnia don't want to separate from YU. And they form "Republika Srpska", in order to stay in Yugoslavia.In 1994, "Srpska" had about 70-80% of Bosnia's area, also Bosnian Serbs want to leave 20% of "Srpska" to Croats and Bosniaks in the interests of peace.So Bosnian Serbs want to separate from Bosnia, parts of Bosnia where they are majority.
serbs didnt want to annex bosnia :wub2:
http://www.slibe.com/fullimage/f9e91fcc-velika_srbija-jp.jpg (http://www.slibe.com)

SERBS WANTED TO LEAVE 20 % :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: I WOULD RATHER SAY THAT OFFENSIVE OF BOSNIAN ARMY TOOK AWAY 35 % OF EVRYTHING THEY HAD... DAYTON SAVED SERBS BECAUSE BOSNIAN 5TH CORPS WAS CLOSING IN ON BANJA LUKA.

Anyway bosnia was lucky that serbs attacked it... because if any other normal people attacked it with so much weapons we would surely lost :D

Sanchezz

09-13-2006, 09:10 AM

this is what you got.... :wub2:
http://www.slibe.com/fullimage/1702db7c-serbia-JPG.jpg (http://www.slibe.com)

DeepEyes

09-13-2006, 04:33 PM

"It is ok to fight for independence politicaly, respecting international law,also there are moral and ethic principle and rights that need to be respected."

Unfortunatly there was no respect from the serbian side regarding international law and ehtnic principle since there was an attempt of ethnic cleansing.

But enough of that we need to get back on the discussion about all the mystery planes that were downed in serbia.. I still find it hard to belive.. and everyone else here is sceptic.. how come only serbian people wish to acknowledge this and no other country?.. i want some solid fact.. nothing from serbian webpages.

Unfortunatly there was no respect from the ALL sides(Croats,Bosniaks,Serbs) for international law and etic principle, in that war(1991-1995).Don't you think? As one American analyst said, teritory of Former Yugoslavia will be test-playground for a small dirty wars!

Is it possible that at the end of 80's, when YU was practicly in the EU, we pull back ourselfs for 20-25 years?Mabye more.

And about NATO planes. It's hard for me to find Yu official info about shot downed planes too.As the Serbia's politics in now "Friends with NATO", Serba don't want to "push fingers into NATO's eyes", and now Serbia's Army don't have state about shot downed NATO planes. Pre 2000 Yugoslavia, had official state: 78 crafts, about 280 cruise missles, and a dosen of non-pilot crafts.Soon, I will have corect info. But I know for shurley that Yu army attack airports that is NATO used in 1999(Albania or Bosnia, I don't know), but it happened.Also I had Info that in one case YU Special Forces(549. BSD, Inflantry of 1st category) attacked that airfield (I beleve it's one in Albania). Soon we will know.

DeepEyes

09-13-2006, 05:40 PM

ONLY FOR "SANCHEZZ"
I can't beleve, "Sanchezz" you is very funny guy!You just Provocate.

OK, about Great Serbia. Those planes never exist! If Serbs want to make "Great Serbia" they would created in 1918,after WWI because it was offered to Serbia by England,France,USA,Italy,Russia... But Serbs refuse that and they join with Croats and Slovenians and Muslims and created Kingdom of Yugoslavia, country where the name of "Serbia" was erased.Later in 1941, Croat and Muslims betray Serbs.

What's happened in former YU (1990-1991). This is ethnic map of SFRY (SFRJ) in 1981:

DeepEyes

09-13-2006, 05:42 PM

And this is map of Yugoslavia during war:

DeepEyes

09-13-2006, 05:45 PM

As you can see,during war Serbs held areas where Serbs are MAJORITY, and wanted to separate those areas!Serbs did NOT want areas where Bosniaks or Croatians are majority.

1.Montenegrians had referendum in 1991, and decided to join with Serbia(and they did so), but in 2006 they helad referendum and separate from Serbia.All without conflict.

2.Macedonia also had referendum in 1991,and decide to separate from YU(and they did so).Without conflict.

So that map that "Sanchezz" draw is just Propaganda. And also to prove Bosniaks and Croats NATIONALISM:
Why Croats and Bosniaks in Bosnia want to live together with Serbs in Bosnia (Serbs are 31% of Bosnias population), and jet they separate from Yugoslavia,rest of Serbs?Ansver is easy:
If "Republika Srpska" become independent there will be impossible to conect "Federation of Muslims and Croats" with "Great Albania" and create one BIG MUSLIM Countru on Balkan.In that country non-Muslims will be about 50% of population.Look here:

DeepEyes

09-13-2006, 07:04 PM

End, what's gonna happend on the end.No this is just a beginning:

Sanchezz

09-13-2006, 07:09 PM

compare 1992 and 1995 maps.And you will see why serbs signed dayton that saved them.As you can see,during war Serbs held areas where Serbs are MAJORITY, and wanted to separate those areas!Serbs did NOT want areas where Bosniaks or Croatians are majority.
http://www.slibe.com/fullimage/cbc2efa6-nov95-jpg.jpg (http://www.slibe.com)
Were serb majority in Banja Luka ? , Srebrenica ? , Visegrad ? , Foca ? , Brcko ????? and many other cities. You and me know what you have tried and no need for you to try to spread your propaganda on this forum,people here are not dumB and search for facts. FACT IS 362 MASS GRAVES WITH MUSLIMS AND CROATS BURRIED AND 0 WITH THE SERBS.

BTW muslims make 57% of the population in bosnia ... since croat numbers are rapidly decreasing.And offcourse that propaganda about islamic country... dont make me laugh-bosnians mainly drink alcohol,cheat their wives :D , dont go to mosques except for bayrams and you talk about islamic country :D

and the reason because there is so many municipalites with serb majority in bosnia because serbs inhabited mostly low-populated rural municipalities .. while muslims lived in urban areas

Danno

09-14-2006, 11:01 AM

That great albania & bosnia thing is simply not true. To be honest Bosnjaks have more common with Serbs rather then Albanians. Only thing we got in common is religion.. and you KNOW that bosnjaks are not very religious people.. at least not before the war

Bosnjaks and Serbs are same race (At least i think 90% of bosnjaks are Slavic of not more.. as i said i am not sure of that fact)

Albanians are Illyrian(Pre Italian) so to say.. the language is not the same and we dont get along with them THAT well so that we would form same country.

Danno

09-14-2006, 11:18 AM

Before the war the in my opinion i would rather live with serbian and croatian people rather then albanians.. religion means nothing to me but obviously for some it does. We are all living in the same world .. and in the same country and same village, even same buildings and apartments so better ****ing get used to it ;)

Danno

09-14-2006, 11:19 AM

DeepEyes

09-14-2006, 03:20 PM

Were serb majority in Banja Luka ? , Srebrenica ? , Visegrad ? , Foca ? , Brcko ????? and many other cities. You and me know what you have tried and no need for you to try to spread your propaganda on this forum,people here are not dumB and search for facts. FACT IS 362 MASS GRAVES WITH MUSLIMS AND CROATS BURRIED AND 0 WITH THE SERBS.

BTW muslims make 57% of the population in bosnia ... since croat numbers are rapidly decreasing.And offcourse that propaganda about islamic country... dont make me laugh-bosnians mainly drink alcohol,cheat their wives :D , dont go to mosques except for bayrams and you talk about islamic country :D

and the reason because there is so many municipalites with serb majority in bosnia because serbs inhabited mostly low-populated rural municipalities .. while muslims lived in urban areas

I dislike that you allways deny Serb victims.

And if you Show map of "Great Serbia", you must except Maps that I posted ( "Great Albania","Nazi Croatia",and Unia of "Great Albania and Bosnia").

You don't want to create Big Muslim country in the Balkan,except in the case when you want to create!

And NO I don't want to REPEAT myself! Go on previous pages, and read ansvers of your questions-posts.

DeepEyes

09-14-2006, 03:23 PM

And for more info.. my roommate is serbian here in sweden ;), but that still doesnt change the fact of what happened down there and who did the most damage to our beutiful country (Whole of Yugoslavia) I Hold all nations more or less responseble for that. But mainly serbs due to overkill against civilians and warcrimes. (Muslims did it to im aware but on a smaller scale)

Any new info on the planes that were shot down in serbia?

This is the biggest hipocrisy that I ever read. And I wrote enough about Yu-crissis, and I will not REPEAT any more!

Your way of thinking: "We are thiefs, but they are thiefs bigger then us."

And about "beautiful" Former Yugoslavia.This country was desinged to fall appart in one day.And it fall.Every professor of history and politics in the world will confirm that.Go ask...

About planes, No, I am wating for one book to read.And when I do... new info.
I have some info about Yu ground loss.If you are interested?

Danno

09-14-2006, 03:55 PM

Your way of thinking: "We are thiefs, but they are thiefs bigger then us."

Yeah, that is my way of thinking.. but is it not true?

And yeah go ahead.. send whatever info you got

Sanchezz

09-14-2006, 04:53 PM

Yugoslavia broke apart because increasing nationalism of the serbs (kosovo meeting) milosevic sayed ... there will be many more battles maybe not military but such are not excluded....

DeepEyes

09-15-2006, 02:49 PM

Yugoslavia broke apart because increasing nationalism of the serbs (kosovo meeting) milosevic sayed ... there will be many more battles maybe not military but such are not excluded....

Today's president of Croatia, said in 1991 or 1992: "My assignment is accomplished, Yugoslavia does not exist any more!"

Yugoslavia broke, becouse it supose to:
As SSSR fell apart, a link from NATO to "Warsaw pact", Yugoslavia, lost it's importance.
Also, for example: Croatia, got every strategic question solved:
1.Almost all Croatians lived in Croatia.
2.Croatia "occupate" territory where Serbs are majority.This way Serbs were 30% of Croatia population.And that is not equal with Serbs.Look point "1."
3.On the far south ,Croatia controll one side of entrance of the Best Natural Harbor in Europe.So this way Croatia could and will always controll Montenegrian Navy.Same for Slovenia and Bosnia.Croatia now controll 90% of east cost of Adriatic sea.

There is more... but not now!
This "benefits" Croatia win with their Strong political influence in former YU(Dictaror of Yu was Josip Broz TITO,Croat). As Croatians got what they want,Superior Strategic position, they decide to separate, and what's happened in 1990, was just a excuse.

From the other side, Serbia was devided in 3 parts.And almost 50% of Serbs lived outside of Serbia.Serbia's autonomuy provinces of Vojvodina and Kosovo was practicly independent countries.(Serbia's had no influence on Kosovo and Vojvodina ,but Kosovo and Vojvodina could put a VETO on decisions in Serbia's parlament, this is first time in the world that Province had more political power then Country). This anti-Serb politics was brought by Josip Broz TITO.

Also after constitution in 1974, YU was very unstabile country.Economy fas felling down,coruption was rising.Debt to another countries was above 20 bilions of $.
Serbia,Croatia and Slovenia finance development of Bosnia,Montenegro and Macedonia's infrastructure.(This is the main reason why Slovenia wanted to separate)
And As every federal unit had right to put VETO in federal parlament, running of YU was impossible.

And this it true reasons why Former Yugoslavia fell apart, SANCHEZZ! Read some political and history books,or ask some professor of politics or history, and then talk about YU crisses. Dont just say what you heard on CNN! Your arguements only work at 10 year old child. Just GO and newer return Sanchezz. I don't want to repeat myself!.

DeepEyes

09-15-2006, 02:54 PM

Yugoslavia broke apart because increasing nationalism of the serbs (kosovo meeting) milosevic sayed ... there will be many more battles maybe not military but such are not excluded....

Presidents of Yugoslavia:

1943-1980 Josip Broz Tito - Croat, 37 years president.
1980-1990 Pretsednistvo

Presidents of YU government:

1944-1963 Josip Broz Tito - Croat
1963-1967 Petar Stambolic - Serb
1967-1969 Mika Spiljak - Croat
1969-1971 Mitja Ribicic - Slovenian
1971-1977 Dzemal Bijedic - Muslim(Bosniak)
1977-1982 Veselin Djuranovic - Montenegrian
1982-1986 Milka Planinc - Croat
1986-1989 Branko Mikulic - Croat
1989-1991 Ante Markovic - Croat

Jut to confirm, previous post.

PS. About Yu ground loses... Tomorow!

TOMMYJO

09-15-2006, 04:04 PM

Storey goes like this;
Group of Serbian aircraft form over Serbia (4 attack boomers and 4 fighters).
From Yugoslavia they cross in to Bosnia heading to Tuzla. When they come near the Tuzla airport NATO fighters are on the runway ready for take of. Then Serbian attack boomers hit those aircraft that are preparing to take of, after that they attack hangers, ammo storages and other aircraft still on the ground.
Then NATO AA weaponry opens up and one Mig-21 was destroyed other one was damaged.
Group finishes there attack and starts to escaping to Yugoslavia. One damaged Mig-21 crash-lands in Yugoslavia.
NATO lost 6 aircraft (2 on runway 4 in hangers) 1 helicopter, some ammo and fuel.
Tuzla airport was crippled and needed repairs.
One guy from Tuzla sad to me that he herd some explosions coming form airport on that day. He told me that on TV they sad that NATO had some accident. For your information he is Bosnjak!
Think for one second, just think, what would happen if NATO seed “YUGOSLAVIAN AIR FORCE BOOMED OUR AIRPORT IN TUZLA”.

The story is from the Yugoslav propaganda. Tuzla had Russian SFOR troops, including a Russian Colonel, stationed there. Were they all blind? Even the Yugoslav Air Force themselves stay well clear of such blatant ignorant propaganda stories. If you look examine the story then the story has named Yugoslav pilots killed during the raid. Explain why NONE of those named pilots are listed or honoured by the Yugoslav Military as having fallen in combat on the date of the claimed air-raid.

The then Serbian and Montenegro airforces opened up their airbases to aviation journalists in 2005 and interviewed base commanders. Explain to me why NO base has any tributes or memorials to those that died on the claimed Tuzla raid? Explain to me why NO Serbian air unit has formal creditation to these claimed air raids?

Nice touch with the explosions heard at the airport. If you do some research into the situation in Bosnia you’ll find that Operation Harvest, which was an amnesty for the collection and subsequent destruction of vast amounts of explosives and arms that the local populace had in their possession or knew there whereabouts. was ongoing at the time. Figures released by SFOR during March detail the following;

‘The totals as of this weekend are: 1,848 small arms, and please note
that this particular number is approximate; 253,074 rounds of
ammunition smaller than 20 millimeters; 4,592 rounds of 20 to 76
millimeter ammunition; 414 rounds of ammunition greater than 76
millimeters; 431 mortar rounds; 6,696 hand grenades; 752 anti-personnel
mines; 316 anti-tank mines; 647 pounds of explosives; and 6,313
miscellaneous items.’

The local populace was reporting explosions to SFOR and were worried
that these had something to do with the ongoing conflict. The fact is
that many of these were controlled explosions by EOD teams covering the
territory.

Please explain to me why the now Serbian Air Force does not honour or give credit to any claimed air raids at either Tuzla or Rinas? Remember pilots were meant to have died if you belive the story?

Sanchezz

09-16-2006, 08:14 AM

Presidents of Yugoslavia:

1943-1980 Josip Broz Tito - Croat, 37 years president. -
1980-1990 Pretsednistvo

Presidents of YU government:

1944-1963 Josip Broz Tito - Croat
1963-1967 Petar Stambolic - Serb
1967-1969 Mika Spiljak - Croat
1969-1971 Mitja Ribicic - Slovenian
1971-1977 Dzemal Bijedic - Muslim(Bosniak)
1977-1982 Veselin Djuranovic - Montenegrian
1982-1986 Milka Planinc - Croat
1986-1989 Branko Mikulic - Croat
1989-1991 Ante Markovic - Croat

Jut to confirm, previous post.

PS. About Yu ground loses... Tomorow!

Non of that presidents were serbs,croats,bosnians or any others .. they were al YUGOSLAVS ! calling tito a croat.... what an moron. He executed 33 000 ustashas (croats) in slovenia after WW2 end.

DeepEyes

09-16-2006, 10:21 PM

Non of that presidents were serbs,croats,bosnians or any others .. they were al YUGOSLAVS ! calling tito a croat.... what an moron.

This is the stupidiest thing that I have ever read!
I see, when you don't have ansver, you just Deny facts and INSULT! So take your "I wiil DENY all facts that I don't like" way of thinking, away!

Actually, YOU NOW DENY FACTS THAT STUDENTS ON UNIVERSITY OF ZAGREB,AND BELGRADE,and I beleive in Sarajevo too, LEARN!

In some case you will say that Earth is FLAT.

And you often LIE!On page 16 you said that there was 32 732 Bosniaks civil casulties. But on the page 18 said that there are 65 000 of killed Bosniak civilians.Wery SMART!

Stjepan Mesic(Croatian), today's president of Croatia, said in 1991-1992: "My assignment is accomplished, Yugoslavia does not exist any more!" By the way, he was last president of "President cabinet" (substitute for President- PREDSEDNISTVO SFRY)of Former Yugoslavia,he was "Yugoslavian" then and now he is Croat.

Also, I alredy said this. TITO's parents were Croatians,and he was born in NORTH Craotia.And untill 1945, He was Croatian, and After 1945 he become Yugoslavian. Give me a brake!!!Yeah he was Yugoslavian and yet he protected croatian interests so good.

And stop waisting my time.Go to some school and learn something!

Sanchezz

09-17-2006, 06:58 AM

This is the stupidiest thing that I have ever read!
I see, when you don't have ansver, you just Deny facts and INSULT! So take your "I wiil DENY all facts that I don't like" way of thinking, away!

Actually, YOU NOW DENY FACTS THAT STUDENTS ON UNIVERSITY OF ZAGREB,AND BELGRADE,and I beleive in Sarajevo too, LEARN!

In some case you will say that Earth is FLAT.

And you often LIE!On page 16 you said that there was 32 732 Bosniaks civil casulties. But on the page 18 said that there are 65 000 of killed Bosniak civilians.Wery SMART!

Stjepan Mesic(Croatian), today's president of Croatia, said in 1991-1992: "My assignment is accomplished, Yugoslavia does not exist any more!" By the way, he was last president of "President cabinet" (substitute for President- PREDSEDNISTVO SFRY)of Former Yugoslavia,he was "Yugoslavian" then and now he is Croat.

Also, I alredy said this. TITO's parents were Croatians,and he was born in NORTH Craotia.And untill 1945, He was Croatian, and After 1945 he become Yugoslavian. Give me a brake!!!Yeah he was Yugoslavian and yet he protected croatian interests so good.

And stop waisting my time.Go to some school and learn something!
Can you tell me which croatian intrests tito protected and which serbian he didnt protect ?????????? again he was a communist and he was a yugoslav NOT CROATIAN.... i hope they move his grave from serbia to bosnia or croatia since you HAWE EQUALISED CHETNIKS AND PARTISANS ...what a shame...

Danno

09-17-2006, 04:41 PM

Anyone got something to say for themselves after TOMMYJO's explenations?

Nope.. i didnt think so.. thanx Jo :)

DeepEyes

09-17-2006, 07:06 PM

Can you tell me which croatian intrests tito protected and which serbian he didnt protect ?????????? again he was a communist and he was a yugoslav NOT CROATIAN.... i hope they move his grave from serbia to bosnia or croatia since you HAWE EQUALISED CHETNIKS AND PARTISANS ...what a shame...

"Can you tell me which croatian intrests tito protected and which serbian he didnt protect ??????????"

Go to page 29 and read.Also there are REAL reasons WHY Former Yugoslavia disintegrate!
You see, TITO was Yugoslavian as much as YOU are! His mother and father were Croatians. And because he was NOT religious, it doesn't change the fact where he came from. For example: There are Croatians: Roman Catholic, Protestant, Atheist...
Also during WWI, when he fought against Serbia,in (Axis army) he were CROAT!
You can't INVENT nationality!
If he really want to keep yugoslavia whole he shoulden't make federal units in YU.In that way YU will newer disintegrate.

And for the rest, I don't want to answer cause I newer said something like that, but, I don't beleve that Serbs in WWII knew the difference between Comunists and Chetniks, except Partisans(Communists) fought under TITO command and Chetniks under command of Yugoslav King.(They fight against each other too. And this is a shame!)

DeepEyes

09-17-2006, 07:14 PM

I promise something about YU ground loses. I beleve that NATO said that they destroyed about 300 Serb tanks. And YU Army said that they losed 13 tanks, mostly destroyed by KLA.

Some interesting photos: (There is wery important that when you make false tank position, also put some trails of tank.So one real tank will come close to "False Target" and go back on the same way.And than trail will look like it was from that false tank.Understand? :)

You know that material for Milk package(Paper,Aly-foil,plastic).From that and Alyminium bars were Tank model made (only green). I saw one in 1999 during conctruction. From inside Tank you can read "Milk factory Belgrade". :)

1359

1360

1361

1362

spirit

09-18-2006, 10:33 AM

It is great day today for Serbia, Russian president Vladimir Putin announce that Moscow is going to use there right on veto to stop Kosovo getting independent.

Sanchezz do you remember that post, I told you that Russia is Serbian allied and that they are not going to let Kosovo separate from Serbia!

Живела Русија

spirit

09-18-2006, 11:38 AM

The story is from the Yugoslav propaganda. Tuzla had Russian SFOR troops, including a Russian Colonel, stationed there. Were they all blind? Even the Yugoslav Air Force themselves stay well clear of such blatant ignorant propaganda stories. If you look examine the story then the story has named Yugoslav pilots killed during the raid. Explain why NONE of those named pilots are listed or honoured by the Yugoslav Military as having fallen in combat on the date of the claimed air-raid.

Please explain to me why the now Serbian Air Force does not honour or give credit to any claimed air raids at either Tuzla or Rinas? Remember pilots were meant to have died if you belive the story?

Sorry because I didn’t give you full information about that raid.
1. One Mig-21 that was destroyed was from group of fighters; pilot ejected and was rescued by Serbs living in Bosnia. Second aircraft was DEMIGED but CRASH-LANDED IN YUGOSLAVIA, pilot SURVIVED. No pilot lost his life in this attack
2. Tuzla city is one thing, but Tuzla airport is another, aircraft on that airport where attacking Yugoslavia and those weren’t Su-33s those where F-16s.
3. This attack had no big impact on NATO and didn’t interrupt booming of Yugoslavia.
4. Not big propaganda storey, attack on Tuzla airport who cars. F-117A was shot down on Yugoslavian soil, now that is big propaganda story because NATO cant denial it like they did whit Tuzla!!!!!

All the pilots of Yugoslavian air force that were killed defending there country have there monument.
No pilots were killed in this attack!

There you have it, do you want more?:)

Danno

09-18-2006, 12:25 PM

All about nationality is a sensitive question.. because at some point in time everyone WAS actually a Yugoslav and not Croatian..nor Bosnian nor Serbian

Are you a Bosnian Croat or are you a Bosnian Catholic?
Are you a Bosnian Serb or are you a Bosnian Orthodox?
Are you a Bosnjak/Bosnian Muslim or what the hell are you? :)

This could be discussed for ages

Danno

09-18-2006, 12:26 PM

spirit you can cut the ********.. that is one hella nice made up story

TOMMYJO

09-18-2006, 02:41 PM

Sorry because I didn’t give you full information about that raid.
1. One Mig-21 that was destroyed was from group of fighters; pilot ejected and was rescued by Serbs living in Bosnia. Second aircraft was DEMIGED but CRASH-LANDED IN YUGOSLAVIA, pilot SURVIVED. No pilot lost his life in this attack
2. Tuzla city is one thing, but Tuzla airport is another, aircraft on that airport where attacking Yugoslavia and those weren’t Su-33s those where F-16s.
3. This attack had no big impact on NATO and didn’t interrupt booming of Yugoslavia.
4. Not big propaganda storey, attack on Tuzla airport who cars. F-117A was shot down on Yugoslavian soil, now that is big propaganda story because NATO cant denial it like they did whit Tuzla!!!!!

All the pilots of Yugoslavian air force that were killed defending there country have there monument.
No pilots were killed in this attack!

There you have it, do you want more?:)

Spirit,
There is nothing worse than getting things completely wrong.

No combat missions were ever flown from Tuzla airbase against Serbia. Tuzla was used purely for SFOR missions only and combat search and rescue. You do realise what SFOR was doing. Can you not see why any attack against Tuzla was pure fantasy. Why would Serbia attack a base where Russians SFOR troops were located at? Again I'll ask you were the Russians SFOR troops based there completely blind and deaf?

Your claims of MiG-21s being used in the conflict are pure bogus. Even after the conflict the Yugoslavs admitted that the MiG-21 was kept out of the conflict.

Can you please explain again why the Serbian Air Force does not commemorate the infamous air raid? If you believe in the Tuzla air raid then you must also believe in the claimed Rinas air raid. Why are none of those named pilots citated for the raid? Why do the base commanders of their claimed units acknowledge these claimed air raids? Why are they not proclaimed as heros by the Serb military? Why does the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum not have a display of this and the other claimed air raid on Rinas? The reason why is that you have been fooled completely. The raids were pure fantasy created by the then Yugoslav Ministry of Information. Good for keeping the Yugoslav population happy and fed with combat victories, but in reality found out after the conflict as pure fantasy.

Whoever created the fantasy tales did not do any research into what was based at Tuzla or Rinas. Not only were there Russian SFOR liason staff based at Tuzla, but relief agencies were also flying and operating out of Rinas. Were they all blind and deaf to an air strike on both of these airfields.

Pure fantasy propaganda at its worse. Please contact any or all of the following. Ask them about the claimed air raids, the pilots and the units claimed to have taken part.

MINISTER– Bircaninova 5, 11020 Belgrade
•
ministar.odbrane@mod.gov.yu
DEPUTY MINISTER– Bircaninova 5, 11020 Belgrade
•
zamenik.ministra@mod.gov.yu
CABINET
•
kabinetMO@mod.gov.yu
PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPARTMENT– Bircaninova 5, 11020 Belgrade
•
PRESS RELEASE SERVICE

•
Tel:
+ 381 11 32 03 015

•
Fax: + 381 11 32 03 466

•
e-mail info@mod.gov.yu

spirit

09-18-2006, 02:43 PM

I don’t like making up fake stories, but this rely happened.

PS: Watch your language

spirit

09-18-2006, 02:55 PM

Who are you until you came there was only bunch of Bosnian kids talking about something they don’t know.
Ok I going to find web site where I found this information, at first I didn’t believe in it, but after some 10km of txt…

Answer me just this can you read Serbian Cyrillic?

Danno

09-18-2006, 03:59 PM

Its been a while since i read it.. but i think i can manage

Sanchezz

09-18-2006, 04:57 PM

Well first let us straighten thing about tuzla airport... first i was borned in tuzla and i came to sarajevo 2 years ago (i lived in tuzla during NATO bombing of serbia) And do you know that Tuzla military airport was the largest airport of YNA army ? Do you know that "eagle base" that is tuzla military airport largest NATO base in ex-yugoslavia... and you thing that they would allow old serbian jets to come near it let alone fire at it ??? . Closest the serbian jets came was 45 Km to the east and they ended up in pieces... Just watch what are you saying - That old serbian jets managed to penetrate 70Km into bosnia and bomb an NATO airbase ?? what happened to the Radars and SAMS that were installed ?? what managed to numerous NATO aircrafts ?? - Just dont say that serbian mig-21 managed to defeat NATO airforce :D

Serbian Airforce is weak and old.... and why dont you admit that NATO defeated you ? they accomplished their goals... managed to kick you out of kosovo with minimal air loses and practicly no ground loses-damaged LARGE proportion of infrastructure in serbia and factories -end of the story

spirit

09-18-2006, 05:01 PM

Information that I give to you was not 100% correct, because it was from what I remembered. I found web site and now I’m going to give you better information.

Again:

Date: 18.04.1999.
There were 9 Serbian aircraft, 1 “G4 Super Galeb”, 6 “J-22 Orao” and 2 “mig-21”.
Group lieder was Major Stevan Zivojin Gavrilovic flaying “G4 Super Galeb”, everything was organized by (potpukovnik) Mihajlo V. from Kragujevac flaying on one of “J-22 Orao”. Attack started from airport “Ponikve” (near Uzice) some 120km from Tuzla. Group was flaying on Yugoslavian-Bosnian border (altitude 800m). Border was crossed between Bratunca and Zvornika.
Several mints before attack group was informed that they have been spotted by NATO and that they should turn back. Pilots decided to continue and they didn’t encounter any threat from ground/air. Radar on Tuzla airport wasn’t working because technical problems (there have bin some climes of sabotage). In that time on Tuzla airport there were some damaged planes (not in function, they were there probably to be repaired) and about 8-10 planes arrived for support of attack on Yugoslavia.
4 NATO aircraft where spotted on end of runway ready to take of. Leading “G-4 Super Galeb” dropped boom on damaged aircraft parked on others side of runway. 3 “J-22 Orla” did same thing, other 3 “Orla” did precision attacks.
1 “J-22 Orao” was hit from ground and its pilot was killed (potpukovnik) Mihajlo V.
Rest of the group returned to Ponikve airport, except on Mig-21 that crash landed 10km from airport.

NATO loses 17 aircraft (not known how many where operational) and 3 rescue helicopters.

PS: If you ask me all aircraft where for rescue and/or surveillance.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/map00025bk.jpg

Sanchezz

09-18-2006, 05:39 PM

Kosovo Mujaheddin

09-19-2006, 04:16 PM

And why is your terrorist fu##ing army out of Kosova???
Kosovo get be free

Islam in Balkan, Islam in europe, Islam Worldwide

spirit

09-20-2006, 01:04 PM

And why is your terrorist fu##ing army out of Kosova???
Kosovo get be free

Islam in Balkan, Islam in europe, Islam Worldwide

Pleas watch your word, we are talking nicely here (as much as possible), no need for words of heat.

spirit

09-20-2006, 01:22 PM

So you say that RADAR in tuzla airbase was not working (sabotaged :D i was in vicinty of that base and i can tell you that mouse cannot enter that base without being seen ) so what happend with bosnian army radars on Konjuh mountain ??? they could detect airplane takeoff right away.And these are not only radars in the area.... there are many more (sarajevo airport,Rajlovac military airport etc.) also avacs airplanes who were patroling that are.. and non of that saw Serbian jets flying towards biggest nato airfield in ex-yugoslavia????

Sanchezz you have to read my post nice and slow. :huh2:
They where spotted before they crossed Yugoslavian-Bosnian border.:)

Night

09-20-2006, 06:29 PM

Thread closed. I have recieved way too many complaints about this thread, if you guys feel you can discuss it in an orderly fashion, then do so. And please use links to back up your sources.

Night

09-28-2006, 05:02 PM

Due to extensive requests I have re-opened the thread. But if I see a lot of flames the thread will be permanently closed.

Danno

09-28-2006, 05:16 PM

Wooowooooo.. the thread is open again.. where were we gentlemen? :)

gmi serbia

10-04-2006, 07:02 PM

Thank you becouse you opened thread.

gmi serbia

10-05-2006, 08:30 PM

There, over there... beyond those hills,
Ruined lies, they say, my
Emperor's palace; there, they say,
Once, heroes had gathered.

There, over there... I see Prizren!
It is all mine – home I shall come!
Beloved antiquity calls me there,
Armed I must come there one day.

There over there... from on top of the ruins
Of Emperors' palaces to the devil I will say:
"Flee from my beloved home you plague,
Already your loan I must repay!"

There, over there... beyond those hills,
Lies a green grove, they say,
Under which rises up Holy Decani:
A prayer said within Paradise claims.

There, over there... beyond those hills,
Where sky of blue bends down her arch;
On to Serb fields, on to battle fields,
There, brothers, prepare to march!

There, over there... beyond those hills,
Trampled by horses' hooves cries out the Jug:
"Come help me, children, come help me, sons,
Avenge the old man - sacred is your task!"

There, over there... for the ribs of the old man,
I'll dull my sabre's edge on
The ribs of the Turks; and cut the ties
From the wrists of the wretched masses!

There, over there... beyond those hills,
Lies there, they say, Milos's grave!
There my soul eternal peace shall gain,
When the Serb is no more a slave.

Danno

10-05-2006, 08:54 PM

I suggest you lock this thread again asap.

jimbodogg

10-06-2006, 02:22 PM

spirit

10-06-2006, 05:34 PM

Hi all
I have little agreement whit Night, forum stays opened but no bad words or words of hate.
We can continue whit questions about 1999 war.

spirit

10-06-2006, 05:35 PM

I recall that over Kosovo the US pilots were told to fly at very high altitude to avoid AA fire. And US attack helecopters were not allowed to participate. The clinton administration was very reluctant to risk casualties.

So shamfull that the US took action so late in the Yugo conflicts.

(In this case, It was the democrats that finally did something. )

US army used 1999 war to taste there latest weapons like smart bombs and stealth aircraft… There is simple explanation for this, they were preparing for war agents Iraq.
At that time Yugoslavian army had similar weaponry as Iraqi army, maybe not it those numbers, but in force ratio Yugoslav army had advantage. Also Yugoslavian army had small amounts of Russian latest AA-weaponry. Yugoslavian best fighter Mig-29S, suffered massive loses during the war. There is no need to talk about Mig-21 and G-4.

There is no nation on the World that can fight whit US- air force.Iran, North Korea, China; maybe even Russia would be crashed in air war whit US, maybe not in ground war but in air…

PS: democracy totally failed whit question about Kosovo, there is probably going to be another war, Albanians want Kosovo to get independent but Serbia don’t.

gmi serbia

10-10-2006, 12:15 PM

...and........
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5843/invisiblesd5.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=invisiblesd5.jpg)

DeepEyes

10-19-2006, 05:38 PM

Is anyone interested to by piece of F-117, that were shut down over Serbia in 1999?

spirit

10-24-2006, 05:42 PM

Is anyone interested to by piece of F-117, that were shut down over Serbia in 1999?

no:suspicious4:

Hellas

10-24-2006, 05:45 PM

Is anyone interested to by piece of F-117, that were shut down over Serbia in 1999?

how can you prove authenticity? how much? there is no way that im gunna buy it, but it would be cool to know

Tbagger

10-24-2006, 06:29 PM

how can you prove authenticity? how much? there is no way that im gunna buy it, but it would be cool to know
I thought their aviation museum were selling the pieces as souvenirs.

Hellas

10-24-2006, 10:43 PM

I thought their aviation museum were selling the pieces as souvenirs.

u know the price?

Tbagger

10-25-2006, 04:40 PM

u know the price?
No, but you probably wouldn't want a piece of the wreckage. I read that people got cancer from them.

Hellas

10-25-2006, 04:57 PM

No, but you probably wouldn't want a piece of the wreckage. I read that people got cancer from them.

ehh cancer come from everything....a little while ago i read an artical for a bio class of mine that claimed between 1/3 -1/2 if people in our generation will get some type of cancer.... face it the odds are against you

DeepEyes

10-25-2006, 08:14 PM

No, but you probably wouldn't want a piece of the wreckage. I read that people got cancer from them.

Aviation Museum in Belgrade, sells pieces of F-117, I believe it's about 5 EURO for a piece.It's 100% authentic.

Cancer, I don't believe. Serb(Old Yugoslavian) "radioactive materials" regulations are more rigorous than European. But who knows?

Tbagger

10-25-2006, 08:16 PM

Cancer, I don't believe. Serb(Old Yugoslavian) "radioactive materials" regulations are more rigorous than European. But who knows?
Maybe it's from the burnt material in the F-117's airframe.

Hellas

10-25-2006, 08:25 PM

Aviation Museum in Belgrade, sells pieces of F-117, I believe it's about 5 EURO for a piece.It's 100% authentic.

Cancer, I don't believe. Serb(Old Yugoslavian) "radioactive materials" regulations are more rigorous than European. But who knows?

5 euro for a piece oh history? thats like 7$ Canadian --- u cant even buy a meal for that.... sounds like a great deal

DeepEyes

10-26-2006, 08:02 PM

Yeah! You can stick it on the front of the car. No speed limit!

Hellas

10-26-2006, 10:40 PM

:roflmao3: Yeah! You can stick it on the front of the car. No speed limit!
:roflmao3:

LiberalGuy

11-01-2006, 04:46 AM

Islam in Balkan, Islam in europe, Islam WorldwideJudaism in the Middle East, Judaism worldwide. :)

snc128

11-01-2006, 06:47 AM

Judaism in the Middle East, Judaism worldwide. :)

:suspicious4: ???

LiberalGuy

11-01-2006, 02:17 PM

:suspicious4: ???
Islam in Balkan, Islam in europe, Islam Worldwide:suspicious4: ???

snc128

11-02-2006, 05:29 AM

it seems some1 tries to make ppl aware of himself:)

lati90

11-02-2006, 02:28 PM

Serb's just suck......

spirit

11-02-2006, 04:43 PM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/patrolakosovo.jpg
Serbian scouts (Kosovo).

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/4-01.jpg
Praga

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/b02061a.jpg
Serbian tank M-84

spirit

11-02-2006, 05:00 PM

Ya ya what do you think you are doing?
are you proud of what your country has done?
what is wrong with the people who let people like him post here ?
have you forgotten what Serbia did?
if I have to choose between Serbia and Nato believe me brothers i will chose Nato Nato saved my country from years of Tirrany genocid and so on
Serbi launched a War against a country who's population whas 95% Muslim as I am I am from Kosovo that country that WILL be Independent Inshalla
Ok you shot down some nato planes NATO SHOT DOWN YOUR ENTIRE COUNTRY dont think your strong you have never had kosovo and you will never have as long as there will be albanians alive we will defend our country with everything we have.
For the grace of Allah.
we Albanians from kosovo thank Nato for there help during the war where was Iran when a Muslim Nation was atacked by A ORTODHOX Country?
we also Thank the Muslims that helped us out in the war who came over from places like Saudi-arabia.
one last message for the people of Iran you have made a pact with Serbia but do not Forget the biggest sin you can make is to fight against a muslim brother
that was it guys think before you give people like this to post in your Forum
im sorry for the way i typed.

There is no need for words of heat, pleas forgive me if I or someone else has insulted Muslims or Islam.
This is forum about NATO and American losses in Serbia, if you have some question pleas let me here it.

PS: Tray to be nice people.

DeepEyes

11-02-2006, 11:07 PM

After NATO agression 1999:

NATO is more than 7 years in "Kosovo and Metohia". Since then, almost 5 000 Serbs was killed or kidnapped.

Before NATO agression 1999. on Kosovo and Metohia lived appx. 250 000 Serbs, and now it's less then 100 000.

On 17th and 18th March 2004 albanian forces attacked Serb civilians on Kosovo. NATO couldn't (or didn't want) to protect Serb civilians from Albanians, 20 Serbs were killed,about 5 000 Serbs leave Kosovo and Metohia in two days, 1000 Serbs houses were destroyed, 40 Serb church and dozen cemeterys were destroyed.

After NATO came to "Kosovo and Metohia" about 100 Serb church were destroyed.

Today Kosovo and Metohia is almost clean ethnic Albanian land.

You forgot that NATO attacked Serbia in 1999.

Was there any ALBANIAN refugees before war in 1999?

NATO drop URANIUM shells on Kosovo and Metohia. People in Kosovo and Metohia now get cancer becouse of radiation.

Today Serbia pays public debt of Kosovo and Metohia to foregin countries(mostly USA).This money was used after 1945. to develop Kosovo's infrastrucrure.

Albanians on Kosovo and Metohia before 1999. lived much better, then Albanians in Albania.

Albanian families on Kosovo and Metohia have appx. 10-15 childern before 1999.

If Serbs were bed, are Albanians better?

So much of Democracy in KOSOVO today.

"one last message for the people of Iran you have made a pact with Serbia but do not Forget the biggest sin you can make is to fight against a muslim brother"

This I don't understand

Sanchezz

11-03-2006, 07:04 AM

In brief ... serbs always tried to alter history books to suit them.Now they are trying to do it again.They are celebrating a lost battle on kosovo from the turks because they are delusioned ppl by constant propaganda... now they are claiming that they destroyed half of nato airforce lol.... they shot down and f117 accidentaly and they are bragging about it like they sunk 3 carriers.... :) Man u lost the battle - NATO had minimal losses and they managed to drive you out of kosovo without even setting foot on kosovo or serbia... end of story... Today serbian airforce practicaly doesent exists and AA System are old and outdated just like the whole army. Serbs you should concentrate to make friends around you and develop ecconomy... stop trying to make "great serbia" when u see that result of that is smaller and smaller serbia.....

spirit

11-03-2006, 11:40 AM

DeepEyes

11-03-2006, 09:11 PM

Sanchezz

11-04-2006, 05:50 AM

In 1991, Iraqi army was four in the world, and they did not shot down single stealth aircraft.
In operation “Desert storm” after 30 days, Iraq lost some 3500+ tanks and armored vehicles all of its air force and AA weapons. Not to talk about massive infantry losses and even more deserters.

From beginning of 1998 to end of 1999 (+78 days of NATO booming), Serbian army lost some 50 tanks and armored vehicles, 3000 police officer and soldiers, few AA-weapons. Serbian air force was almost destroyed, but it survived and now has some 270 aircraft
Conflicts lasted to 2003, but Serbian losses did not change significantly, thanks to Special Forces units of army and police (gendarmerie, JSO, 63. parachute brigade, 72. special brigade…).

In addition, Russia and China are agents Kosovo getting independent.

1.LOL iraqi army was not fourth by strength on the world dont be crazy :wub2:
2.They didnt shot any stealth aircraft because NATO force attacking iraq was much more carefull than in serbian air strikes wich most nato pilots considered to be a "picnic flight".Most of nato pilots openly disobeyed rules about flying low and the attacks were comming from same directions for 5 days in a role ... again not cautious.
3.Serbian army lost about 200 tanks .. and reason for such small number is because you hid them and were frightened to use them because you knew they would end up in pieces in mater of minutes.
4.Serbian airforce today has about 40 operational aircraft and 50 unoperational...... GET THE POINT ??? KOSOVO=INDEPENDENT=JUST MATTER OF TIME.... - If you had been smart none of this would happend and maybe even montenegro would be with serbia.. but because of your insane nationalist-expansionalist propaganda-ideology you are loosing teritory.... you should make friends with countrys around you and try to solve inner problems by dialog not by weapons because today politics is more influental than tanks.... :3eyes4:

Sanchezz

11-04-2006, 05:54 AM

There is NO BOSNIAN nationality.

Official name of BOSNIA is "Bosnia and Herzegovina". Bosnia is western part and Herzegovina is eastern part. Resaon that nowdays some prople call Bosnia and Herzegovina, only Bosnia ,is to make illusion that this land mass is compact, but it isn't.

Later same people, "Muslims that live in Bosnia and Herzegovina", call themselfs "BOSNIANS", just to create illusion that they are only legal heiress of Bosnia and Herzegovina. So "Bosnia" can become their land. (Bosnia-Bosnians; Serbia-Serbians;Croatia-Croatians...), and other nations are just inviders.
This is far away of truth, Because Serbs and Croatians who live in Bosnia and Herzegovina, lived there for centuries and "Bosnia" is their as much as it is to Bosnian Muslims.
Later, they didn't succed to sell themselfs like "Bosnians", so they invented new name for their nationality and it is "Bosniaks".
Nowdays, Muslims in Serbia, call themselfs "Bosniaks" too.

With all respect to all "Bosniaks", this play with words is not innocent at all. It's wery good tactics.

BOSNIAN= BOSNIAN MUSLIM,BOSNIAN ORTHODOX,BOSNIAN CATHOLIC.
I have friends that are catholic and orthodox who fought in bosnian army and they would never call them selves serbs or croats.. but bosnian with catholic or orthodox religion.And many of those who you count in as "serbs" or "croats" expres themselvs as bosnians....

BOSNIAK-Name for bosnians during the middle age when bosnia was kingdom... some bosnian-muslims use this to expres which religion they are when they are talking....

GET THE POINT :wub2:

spirit

11-05-2006, 05:31 PM

Sanchezz you are too little to talk about big things, when you finish elementary school you can come and talk.

1.Iraqi army (before 1991) was forth army in the world, it is simple to check that information, ask someone on IRAN DEFENCE FORUM or you have internet go to GOOGLE...
2.Yes and now, US pilots were more careful in 1991 then in 1999… LOL man Iraqi army is not JNA.
3.Come on 200 tanks, oh man, I do not have any problems when you say what you think, but when you write ******** like this it rely annoys me. Where did you find that stupid information, just give me the name of that web site.
4.Serbian air force has some 270 planes (not all aircraft are operational).
5.Kosovo verovatno dobija nezavisnost, ali ako mi verujes ni ja nisam siguran sta ce se tu desiti. Amerika ja za nezavisnost, Rusija i Kina protiv. Ko zna verovatno ce nas gurnut u rat zbog sopstvenih interesa. There is no love in politicks.

DeepEyes

11-05-2006, 09:19 PM

BOSNIAN= BOSNIAN MUSLIM,BOSNIAN ORTHODOX,BOSNIAN CATHOLIC.
I have friends that are catholic and orthodox who fought in bosnian army and they would never call them selves serbs or croats.. but bosnian with catholic or orthodox religion.And many of those who you count in as "serbs" or "croats" expres themselvs as bosnians....

BOSNIAK-Name for bosnians during the middle age when bosnia was kingdom... some bosnian-muslims use this to expres which religion they are when they are talking....

GET THE POINT :wub2:

I agree.

What about people who lives in Herzegovina, are they Herzegovians? Bosnia and Herzegovina, REMEMBER.

So people in Dalmatia, can call themself Dalmatians, but they are Croatians.
Or People who live in Moscow, they sometimes call themself Moscowians, but they are RUSSIANS.

Muslims in Bosnia call themselfs only MUSLIMS. When they saw that NATION can't be named with name of RELIGION, they started this word play.

It doesn't matter how single man call himself, cause he can say whatever he want.

So in conclusion, BOSNIANS are NOT NATIONALITY. It's just show people where're you from.

Do you understand?

But you can use Bosniaks, although this name for nation NOW use Muslims in Serbia too. And this is not quite logic. Mabye they could use "Serbiaks" :) It's funny what your nation want to do.

DeepEyes

11-05-2006, 09:30 PM

3.Serbian army lost about 200 tanks .. and reason for such small number is because you hid them and were frightened to use them because you knew they would end up in pieces in mater of minutes.
:

NATO couldn't find them.That is true! And Serbs hide them well. In the case that NATO entered to KOSOVO, they will SOON know where those tanks are :) GET IT!

NATO had ground operations against Yugoslavia during agression 1999. Especialy on areas "Kosare" and "Gorozup", on Yu-Albanian borderline. But they were unsucessful! Yu Army manage to defend Yugoslavia from the ground troops. NATO deny this fact, of course.
So where could Serbs use those tanks???
When AIR is in question, Yu air force was too weak :(

Sanchezz

11-06-2006, 12:12 PM

I agree.

What about people who lives in Herzegovina, are they Herzegovians? Bosnia and Herzegovina, REMEMBER.

So people in Dalmatia, can call themself Dalmatians, but they are Croatians.
Or People who live in Moscow, they sometimes call themself Moscowians, but they are RUSSIANS.

Muslims in Bosnia call themselfs only MUSLIMS. When they saw that NATION can't be named with name of RELIGION, they started this word play.

It doesn't matter how single man call himself, cause he can say whatever he want.

So in conclusion, BOSNIANS are NOT NATIONALITY. It's just show people where're you from.

Do you understand?

But you can use Bosniaks, although this name for nation NOW use Muslims in Serbia too. And this is not quite logic. Mabye they could use "Serbiaks" :) It's funny what your nation want to do.

Bosnia is the name of the country... part of bosnia that croatian lords took under their rule was named Herzegovina... but it will probably soon dissapear because croatian population in bosnia is getting smaller and smaller (now about 14%) ...

U are mixing cities with nationality ??? ex: moscow - moscowians .. lol :)
Bosnia is a country with 1200 years of history and bosnians will always exist no matter how much you try to destroy us..
As i say Bosnians=bosnian muslim-catholic-orthodox ... while Bosniak-Used by some bosnian muslims to express their allegiences to a religion...

Sanchezz

11-06-2006, 12:26 PM

ehehehheahhahahahhah :D incredibly accurate and easy to understand :D
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Serbia
Culture

At first, linking the terms "Culture" and "Serbia" together might seem like a special kind of moron, an oxymoron. Nevertheless, this section will be completed as soon as there is something to write about. Serbians not seen eating more than 500 kilo's of beef at any one time will be executed on the spot by the meat-police.

Under no circumstances should you allow a Serbian to die in your country. If that happens, expect that thousands of Serbs appear next day on your doorstep shouting: "THIS IS SERBIA! THIS IS SERBIA!" For some obscure reason Serbs believe that wherever there is a grave of one of them, they have the right to claim the land. Be very suspicious about Serbs travelling in pairs. It might very well be that they just wait for an opportune moment to kill one of them and claim your country. If you need to kill a Serb, it makes sense to take it outside.

Also, Serbs have similar believe regarding beer: "Wherever there is a Serbian beer - there are Serbian lands!". Therefore Serbs never had serious export of beer, no matter the traditional high quality.

Hawk_nr1

11-06-2006, 12:54 PM

rofl very funny

check out the bosnian :P

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Bosnia

spirit

11-06-2006, 07:21 PM

I found information about Yugoslavian army (Serbian army) losses on Kosovo.
Previously I seed that VJ lost some 50 tanks and armored vehicles, I was wrong.
However, I am going to correct my self right now.
VJ (Serbian army) lost 18 tanks, 3 armored cars and 27 artillery weapons (including M-36 and M-18). Albanian terrorists destroyed six tanks and NATO destroyed rest.

NATO report has little bigger numbers that is because they counted destroyed decoys.
VJ used any method to make decoys old tanks, wooden models of tanks and armored vehicles, fake AA-weapons, fake rockets, starting small fires near decoys (IC bait)…

On the other side VJ used and meted to hide tanks and armored vehicles. There was no moving at the day time, all traces of tank tracks were removed, distance between tanks was at list 200m, all tanks were changing there camouflage every day. In addition, crews did not warm there engines and after every moment they cool down there engines by poring water over it.
And more…

You need little military knowledge to understand these measures.

PS: All damaged thanks and armored vehicles were extracted from Kosovo and repaired.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/gb7.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/gb-10a.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/gb-9.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/driving_in_Iraq.jpg
Best tank killer Apache helicopter did not have success on Kosovo. It is good in desert, but in woods and mountains not really :)

DeepEyes

11-09-2006, 12:22 PM

As i say Bosnians=bosnian muslim-catholic-orthodox ... while Bosniak-Used by some bosnian muslims to express their allegiences to a religion...

Here, this is screenshot taken from Encarta Virtual Globe 1998 CD. I used resolution 640 X 480 becouse is easy to read.
As you can all see, here, there is NO Bosnians. Bosnian Muslims called themselfs "Muslims".
2829

On this screenshot "Muslims" are represented as "Bosniaks"(year 2000). This you can read on page:
2830

http://encarta.msn.com/fact_631504729/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_Facts_and_Figures.html

But this is intesting. As Bosnian Muslims, didn't manage to call themselfs "Bosnians", they invented language. As you can see here "Bosnian Language" emerges from HYPERSPACE. :) :) By the way Bosnian=Croatian=Serbian language , with wery little differences.

So Sanchezz your nationality is Muslim, also you nationality is Bosniak but Bosnian is you nationality TOO??? That Ain't possible!
So, Bosnian is NOT Nationality.
But if Serb,Croat or "Bosniak" says that they are Bosnians, it mean that they are from Bosnia and Herzegovina, only that.

So Snachezz take your nationalism elsewhere.
If Bosnian Muslims manage to be recognised as Bosnians it will create illusion that Bosnia and Herzegovina is one compact land area. And that is not true.Today "entity" of Republika Srpska , protect Serbs that live in Bosnia.

As I said this word games are not innocent at all.
Today "Bosniaks" in Bosnia want to cancel "Bosnian entity" of Republika Srpska, and that is violatin of Dayton Agrement(Agremment that bring peace to Bosnia). They already cucceed to "destroy" "Republika Srpska" army and police.
If "Republika Srpska" falls, this would be is one more step toward, creation of Great Muslim country on Balkans.
This country will be center for recruitment Islamists terrorists. "White Devills" as they call themselfs(Bosnian Terorists).Muslims that live on Balkans are Slavic people, thay are NOT arabic and it is very difficult to distinguish them.
Europe get ready for NEW wave of Terorism
http://www.irandefence.net/showpost.php?p=48646&postcount=280

Whit all recpect to all MUSLIMS, who are OK people, terrorists are Islamist, there are difference.

Sanchezz

11-09-2006, 04:48 PM

Heh ... bosnians terrorists ... ROFL :D man we have so little things common with islam so nobody is crazy to kill himself for a religion... what a stupidity.20% of bosnians goes to mosque only on friday... 70% go on bajram :) other days ... i wont even bother.White devils.... i wont even bother to comment that :D
As for that encyclopeadia... its funny - because u can see right away that it is not correct :) today Bosnians with muslim religion represent 52% of population.And i have book dating from austro-hungarian era - "Bosnian Language" ill put a pic ... And what a stupid comment about Bosnian nationality... as is sayed Bosnian=Bosnian with orthodox muslim catholic religion ... many of my friends are catholic but would never call themselves croats but bosnians with catholic religion... while bosniak = Bosnian muslim.. how many times do i have to explain when you know it yet again you defy it...

As for so called "republic of srpska" it is artificial territory that was always bosnia.It was created by genocide it the start of serbian aggresion on bosnia.Today it is slowly dissapearing because it is loosing its police ... lost its army and it cannot call for a referendum of any kind.Probably in 10-20 years it will dissapear totaly."republic of srpska" is no kind of a republic but an entity with only imagionary border (no border crossing between entitys in bosnia or any kind of other seperation that would be between republics)

DeepEyes

11-09-2006, 11:03 PM

Sanchezz you are stupid enough to deny Microsoft Encarta FACTS. What argument you will accept? What a stupid guy!

From the other side, in 1998, there was 41% of Bosnian Muslims, but today 10 yaers later... 52% mabye. By the way, Enacrta says that in year 2000. there are 48% of Bosniaks.

Your argument of Encarta's inacuraccy failed.

The point is that in Encarta there is NO Bosnian Nationality. Accept that!!!
But it seams that you WILL DENY EVERYTHING that YOU DON'T LIKE!!!

Bosnian is more like citizenship.

"In former Yugoslavia, nationality is often used as translation of the Russian and Serbo-Croatian terms(natsional'nost',narodnost) used for ethnic groups."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality

"Republika Srpska" is sistematicly destroying by Croat-Muslim federation, against will of Bosnian Serbs. Why??? .
All in order to make One great Muslim Country.
Also this game with names for nationality-etnic group is profound to help Great Muslim Aspirations. This aspirations bring war to BALKAN. Today Dayton Agremment protect "Srpska".
But It seams that Bosnian Muslim can violate whatever they want.

Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina, created "Republika Srpska" they had REFERENDUM about that and they want to stay with former Yugoslavia. But Muslims forced them to separate, becouse they want as much teritory as they can grab. Also, if "Republika Srpska" become indpendent, it would be impossible to conect Great Muslim Bosnia and Great Albania. So Bosnian Muslims want to erase "Srpska".
As Everuthing, your BOOK is pure propaganda, launched from Austro-Hungaria to devide Serbs in Bosnia and Serbs in Serbia.

Federation unit of Bosnia and Hercegovina in SFRY, was created under dictationship, and Communist regime without referendum. Many Serbs who oppose that ended up in prison camps on or was killed by regime. So by that "Republika Srpska" is more democratic creation then federatin unit of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Borders of "Republika Srpska" are not artificial. In Austro-Hungaria Serbs had authonomus area of "KRYINA" (Vojna Kraina), "Republika Srpska" is on that teritory now.

And about "white devils" go search on internet... like
http://www.palgrave-usa.com/Catalog/product.aspx?isbn=1859738079

spirit

11-11-2006, 02:44 PM

Sanchezz

11-11-2006, 06:33 PM

I am military expert, but I can say one thing BOSNJAK is name for Serb Muslim.
If you say that, you are Bosnian that can mean that you are Serb, Serb Muslim, Croat, Austrian, Macedonian, Slovenian or any other nationality living there.
If you say that, you live in Republic of Srpska that means that you are SERB.

Muslimani u Bosni su posrbljeni, sto znaci da se sve vise odricu svojih religioznih obaveza i zive moderno, ko sav normalan svet.
Od 10 muslimanki (U BiH), 2 nose feredze, pa ti vidi.

If Kosovo gets its independence Republic of Srpska will get its too there is no question about it.
Isto tako 90% srba ne ode u crkvu po godinu ili vise .. sta to znaci da su POATEISTENI :D nebudi glup.Islam u bosni se razlikuje od islama u arapskim zemljama.Jedno je sigurno bosanci nisu "posrbljeni" ni najmanje - to smo dokazali u proteklom ratu ;)
I agree with text i marked with green color-exactly my point except not serb,croat etc but catholic orthodox etc.

Oh one thing bosnians were never orthodox.. we were catholics and "bogumils" (bosnian church) but never orthodox so that thesis about bosnians being actualy serbs is ridicolous.You are constanty merging religion with nationality - and that is stupid .. so if someone is a catholic he is croat ?? or orthodox serb ??? then americans are actualy mostly croats :D
"republic of srpska" is not a country but an entity with no right to referendum and its integral part of bosnia .. it is slowly dissapearing - military abolished ,police in the process etc... It was created by genocide and destruction of all that is not orthodox (mosques,catholic churches,synagogues..... ) for example -srebrenica 8000 people executed in 4 days.. all mosques and cathedrals in "republic of srpska" destroyed or heavily damaged ..

spirit

11-12-2006, 06:12 PM

E ma ja se zezam malo sa tobom, nemoj sve da shvatas ozbiljno.
Ne mrzim ja ni Muslimane ni Hrvate, nista oni ljudi nisu krivi, krivi su politicari.
Tudjman i Sloba crtali po salvetama kako da podele Bosnu, pa ih Izetbegovic malo ujebao. E a onda su se igrali rata, ko deca.
Albanci, oni su prica za sebe, mrzeli nas pre sto godina mrze nas i sada.
Dok sa druge strane srbi, muslimani i hrvati opet zive zajedno i u BiH i u Hrvatskoj.

1389- Serbs stopped Turks on Kosovo. One of the biggest battles in Serbian history.
Bosnia helped Serbia; they sent army to fight Turks.

spirit

11-12-2006, 06:16 PM

Sanchezz

11-13-2006, 05:59 PM

Zao mi je sam sto ne mozes da vidis kako nam se EU uvlaci u dupe, sam da bi dali Kosovo. Vizne olaksice, finansiska pomoc ma hiljadu stvari cak hoce da nas prime u EU bez izrucena RATNIH ZLOCINACA Mladica i Karadzica.

Ja podrzavam da kosovo bude dio srbije kao sto je uvijek i bilo - Ali isto tako da srbija prizna da entitet republika srpska je privremena mjera do potpunog brisanja i ujedinjenja.Znas dobro da mi muslimani ne mrzimo srbe - iako su mnogi zlocini pocinjeni nad nama mi opet koegzistiramo u federaciji zajedno (90% crkvi u federaciji u ratu je sacuvano) i veliki broj srba je ostao ziviti u sarajevu i ostalim gradovima jer nisu htijeli da izadju i ostave svoje komsije na milost i nemilost krvnicima.Znam cak i dosta srba koji su bili na strani armije bih jer nisu mogli gledat zlocine koji su pocinjeni.Al ja mislim da bi se vi malo trebali "smiriti" jer znas da rat nikom jos nije donio dobra- trebamo graditi mir i saranju da svi bolje zivimo. Ovaj zadnji rat je ukaljao obraz srpskom narodu koji se skoro uvijek borio za slobodu i rijetko kad bio agresor.Nadam se da ce se misljenje naroda u srbiji promjeniti (iako znam da su pravi srbi iz srbije mnogo normalniji od ovih nasih ovdje u bosni). Ja nevolim albance iskreno jer su "teski" ljudi sa njima se nemoze pricat-mi srbi,bosanci,hrvati kolko god se mrzili smo mnogo slicni medjusobno ... a albanci su drugo. - kosovo je uvijek bilo u srbiji ... isto tako sto je i teritorija koja se danas naziva RS bila u bosni.. tako da trebamo da podrzimo teritorijalni integritet nasih drzava a ne samo da se svadjamo dok stranci nas pljackaju i prave budalama...
Eto nadam se da ce mo zapamtiti mir i saradnju nasih drzava a ne samo mrznju- a posebno vi iz srbije bi trebali malo tome pridonjeti :wub2:

spirit

11-14-2006, 05:29 PM

Ma Zapad se sada zapleo u svoju mrezu, oni hoce da Kosovo bude nezavisno ali to onda menja neke stvari.
Ako Kosovo dobije nezavisnost to ce znaciti da su nas 1999 bombardovali da bi podrzali OVK tj. da bi otcepili Kosovo od Srbije a ne da bi zbacili Milosevica.
15% teritorije nije malo, Albanci igraju na kartu: "Dali su nezavisnost svim drzavama bivse SFRJ, pa ce i nama". Kosovo je deo srbije, ali svet to nece da vidi. Albanci pokusavaju da izmene istoriju Kosova (menjaju nazive gradova, sela mesta...). Mozda si primeti da Albanci ne kazu Kosovo i Metohija vec samo Kosovo, e pa Metohije je rec za manastirsku zemlju (posed manastira, crkvi).
Rat na Kosovu je klasicna igra velikih sila (Srbija 1999 nije sila bila nekad za vreme juge), Amerika (CIA) je prvo davala oruzje i obucavala OVK pa kada su videli da je OVK izgubio svu teritoriju na kosovu koju su drzali 1998 (-100%) preduzeli su vanredne mere tj. bombardovanje.

Imam ja druga, majka mu je dosla iz Sarajeva kada je poceo rat U BIH(muslimanka), nikada ona nije napravila razliku izmedju mene i njega, nikada.

spirit

11-14-2006, 05:30 PM

Serbian air force introduced new camouflage colors and marks for its aircraft.
First on the line is Mig-21, new camouflage colors and escadrille marks.
These colors are not final; there may be small changes to it.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_1805129619_Srpske-oznake-2.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/oznaka-sa-krstom.jpg

This is “Takovski” cross it was used by Kingdom of Yugoslavia air force between WWI
and WWII. Now it will be used on military aircraft and helicopters.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_2073307669_Srpske-oznake-6.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_1236733198_Srpske-oznake-5.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_996801440_Srpske-oznake-4.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_982370971_Srpske-oznake-3.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_434807325_Srpske-oznake-7.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_216512142_nove-oznake---raket.jpg
Mig-21’s

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/Mig-29lwtrebalobidaizgledaovako.jpg
Mig-29’s are next they should look something like this. All Mig-29’s need to be modernized first, money is there it is only mater of time.

DeepEyes

11-15-2006, 12:28 PM

Eto nadam se da ce mo zapamtiti mir i saradnju nasih drzava a ne samo mrznju- a posebno vi iz srbije bi trebali malo tome pridonjeti :wub2:

Naravno ja sam protiv promene granica. Nisam siguran da je postojanje Republike Srpske privremeno resenje.S druge strane, danas u "Republici Srpskoj" zivi mali broj ne-Srba, a isto Je i u federaciji, gde Srba gotovo da nema, izizev Jednom podrucju koje je osvojeno u akciji oluja.
S te strane granice izmedju "Srpske" i "Federacije" su gotovo ETNICKE. To je dobro, jer sada kada smo odvojeni, tesko da mozemo da se posvadjamo.
Licno bih voleo da je "Srpska" zajedno sa Srbijom. Ali Srbi su potpisali Dejton.Dakle "Srpska" ostaje u BIH, ali Dejton garantuje postojanje vojske i policije "Srpske", a Srbi su se vec odrekli toga pod pritiskom zapada.Kome je u interesu da krsi sporazum koji je doveo do mira na Balkanu.Stavise Dejton ne cuva samo mir u BIH vec i u Hrvatskoj,Srbiji...
Medjutim ne vidim postojanje "GRANICA" u BIH, kao prepreku za dalji ekonomski i drugi razvoj. Mozda "federacija" treba da olabavi sa zahtevima da ugasi "Srpsku" i time preti Srbima. I ako je to protiv volje Srba u Bosni to treba postovati. Mnoge zemje su federalne ili imaju autonomne oblasti, pa im to ne smeta da nepreduju. Dobro, vojska treba da je jedna.
Desilo se strasno mnogo zlocina. Kako smo mi, pored sve te YU-kulture i nacina razmisljanja, mogli dozvoliti da se desi onaj nesrecni rat.

DeepEyes

11-15-2006, 01:02 PM

Sanchezz

11-15-2006, 03:21 PM

THese look like "Target" markings .... :) i think you should put your eagle emblem on airplanes... historic and Eagles fly :)

Sanchezz

11-15-2006, 03:24 PM

spirit

11-15-2006, 06:14 PM

Oznake su :) :) :) Markings are COOOOOL!!!
"Takovski" Cross is MUCH better then those PEPSI :) signs(YR Yugoslavia, Srebia and Montenegro markings).
What about markings of escadrilles On 3. picture in background there is one MIG-21 from escadrille "Delte"(old markings).

They are going to be painted next, but try to concentrate on this Mig in big screen.:biggrin1:
Jos kada ofarbaju 29ke.:)

spirit

11-15-2006, 06:18 PM

Nemci i Francuzi su se mrzeli, nevidjeno. U prvom i drugom svetskom ratu na desetine miliona ih poginulo, ubijali se ko da su stoke a ne ljudi. Vidi sada gotovo da ne postoji granica izmedju Nemacke i Francuske.

spirit

11-19-2006, 01:14 PM

spirit

11-19-2006, 01:52 PM

This is page about Macedonian war.
This war is link to the Kosovo war, Serbian and Macedonian army fight together against Albanian rebels.
After all Macedonia is one of Serbian countries, it was part of Serbia 200 years.
http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news001/news037.htm

DeepEyes

11-19-2006, 08:59 PM

According to the last info that I get. NATO succeed to simulate planes on Yugoslav sky in 1999. YU Air defence, fires on this "ghosts", and they even had confirmation of hits. But they hit only air. Shame for YU Air Defence. :(
Same source, claim that same unit that bringed down F-117, destroyed another one F-117, that fell outside Yugoslav terittory(Bosnia or Croatia). This UNIT uses Anti-Air_Craft system S-125 "NEVA".

MAN that shot down F-117, leave military and today is BAKER.He makes pastery!!! Sead but true!

Another one "Source" was during 1999 hit one NATO plane with system SA-9 Gaskin (STRELA-1). He saw that he hit the plane.He also said that missiles that he fired was too old, and sometimes, missile passed near the plane and didn't explode. BY the way, this type of missiles have proximity trigger.And sometimes it doesn't work.

Sanchezz

11-22-2006, 03:07 PM

On 18 November 1991, JNA captured city of Vukovar. After 3 months of firs battles, Croatian garrison surrendered. Croatian garrison suffered some 90% losses. Vukovar infrastructure was totally destroyed.
JNA also suffered some losses, massive amounts of wounded man and damaged tanks.
JNA used its overvaluing firepower to destroy Croatian garrison. Tanks like T-34, T-55, T-72, and M-84 were use. JNA lost some 20 T-72 and M-84, number of destroyed T-34 and T-55 was higher.
Serbian (JNA) tank crews started to abandon T-34 massively, who wouldn’t. T-55 tanks suffered from infantry AT weapons, however T-72 and M-84 proved excellent especially M-84. JNA tanks usually attacked Croatian strongholds without (or whit small) infantry support, making them easy targets for enemy infantry.
Moral was big problem, three months of constant fights was hard for soldiers on bout sides.
After two Croatian offensives failed to brake the siege, Vukovar fell, so did rest of Croatian forces in eastern Croatia soon after.
Even 15 years later Vukovar is not repaired 50%. Today Serbs and Croats (50/50) live together in city.

Questions?

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/tenk10.jpg
Destroyed T-55(JNA) in Vukovar
Forgot to mention massacre of 217 heavily wounded croatian soldiers who were in the hospital...when serb army entered vukovar.
Also population to day is more like 95% croats/5% serbs because serbs fleed vukovar after fall of RSK in 1995 ... they hesitate to return because of hostile envirment created by croatian nationalists after the war.

Serbian paramilitia soldiers taking old civilians to unknown area (after the war old civilian on the pic was never found)
http://www.zamislisrbiju.org/foto/idc_foto_02/images/Vukovar-Ovcara-91.jpg

spirit

11-23-2006, 06:03 PM

Forgot to mention massacre of 217 heavily wounded croatian soldiers who were in the hospital...when serb army entered vukovar.
Also population to day is more like 95% croats/5% serbs because serbs fleed vukovar after fall of RSK in 1995 ... they hesitate to return because of hostile envirment created by croatian nationalists after the war.

Serbian paramilitia soldiers taking old civilians to unknown area (after the war old civilian on the pic was never found)
http://www.zamislisrbiju.org/foto/idc_foto_02/images/Vukovar-Ovcara-91.jpg

That is right, angry Serbian paramilitary soldiers and JNA troops did some war crimes to Croatian POW.

Second Croatian offensive “Storm” did not go towards Serbia, not in eastern Croatia but in western part of country (seaside).
Therefore, Vukovar was in Serbian hands up to the end of war. That part of Croatia (after Storm) was under control by Red berets (JSO, Tigers and Serbian volunteers guard) and battled RSK army that was retreating to Serbia and RS.
In operation “Storm”, mere then 250.000 Serbs were forced to leave Croatia and Serbian civilians were killed in great numbers.
In addition, Vukovar population is 50% Serbs 50% Croats, I know this because I heard it on HRT.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/559px-JNA_offensive_plan_1991.jpg
JNA plan for Croatian offensive

Sanchezz

11-24-2006, 10:10 AM

spirit

11-25-2006, 05:57 PM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/pd_croatian_storm_operation_1501.jpg

I agree whit you, lot of Serbs living in Slavonia left there homes after Storm.
There is only one problem; there is not lot of Serbs living in Slavonia (no like in Dalmatia).
Slavonia was controlled by Arkan and him man (JSO, Tigers and Serbian volunteers guard) + leftovers of RSK army.
In 1991 and 1992 JNA captured Slavonia, Milosevic had big inters in this part of Croatia. Main reason was to supply RSK whit weapons, ammo, food, medical equipment… only problem was they had to pay for it.
However, more imported reason was to exploit Slavonia for its oil, wood and stuff like that. Only money, money, money…
He had agreement whit Tudjman, “don’t attack Slavonia and JNA will not attack Croatia”.
Storm could have been stopped in Knin, manpower was there, weapons and equitant was there, supplies where there but Milosevic (form Belgrade) gave order to leave strongholds and had for RS and Serbia. Milosevic betrayed Serbia and Serbs, it was not the first time and it would not be last.
Arkan had some 20-export companies during the war.
After the war Serbs, Croats and Muslims return to there homes, if they had home to return to.

Slusaj me Milosevic, Maldic, Karadzic, pa cak i Arkan za mene nikada nece biti heroji, nikada.
Neki debili po srbiji pokusavaju da stvore heroje od njih, kakvi bre heroji idu u rat sa puskom a vracaju se sa milionima.
Ruke im krvave do ramena, dok smo mi jeli govna oni su gradili stadione i vozili se limuzinama.
Milosevic mi je brata poslao u Vikovar, nije decko ni sanjao sta ce da ga snadje kada je odlazio na sluzenje vojnog roka, tada se tek zakuvavalo.
Tri dana je lezao ranjen na brdu u blizini vukovar, skoro cela ceta mu poginula,
nije ga spasla JNA vec Tigrovi. Naisli momci na ostatke njegove cete pa ih izvukli.
To je bio rat iz interes, obrukali Srbiju, cetnike...
Samozvane Vojvode i cetnici kamionima nose namestaj i tehniku sa ratista u Srbiju, sramota. Nemoze sebe niko da zove vojvodom i cetnikom, zna se ko su i sta su vojvode i cetnici i ko ih proglasava.
Prave vojvode moraju prvo da se dokazu, cats, postenje... Vojvoda Stepa Stepanovic, Vojvoda Misic, Vojvoda Petar Bojovic, Vojvoda Putnik to su prave vojvode a ne Mladic, Karadzic.
Ako poznajes istoriju shvatices sta sam upravo napisao.

PS: za populaziju Vukovara sam stvarno cuo na HRT-u (hrvatska radio televizija)

DeepEyes

12-01-2006, 12:00 PM

In the operation storm main part of RSK (area around Knin and west of bihac) was captured by croatian army and 90% of RSK army was put out of action.So Slavonic part of RSK surrendered and 74% of all serbs in slavonian part of RSK escaped in to serbia. So you see spirit i didnt say that serbs were expelled from slavonia by operation storm but by its consequence - serbs in slavonia (vukovar) knew that they had no chance against croatian army after main part of RSK army was defeated in operation storm- so nearly all serb population escaped in to serbia.

That is NOT correct.
Only FOOL could think that occupation of RSK "Kryina" in 3-4 days is military succes. The truth is that it was an object of political agremment and trade.

There was significiant pressure on Serbs in Kryina and Bosnia from Belgrade and US to retreat all heawy weaponry(artilary,tanks...)Excuse was that Serbs in Bosnia and Kryina need to show "GOOD WILL" in interests of peace. US guranted saefty of Kryina.
When heawy weaponry retreat, there was impossible to defend Kryina, so with that heawy weaponry all Serb forces retreat.
Than "Storm" begun, and Croatian forces entered almost empty Serb towns. You see, towns like "Knin" could be hold for weeks.

Bosnian Serbs belief to US, and thay were tricked. So do NOT belief to US even when they sign papers.

Don't forget that Bosnia was "NO FLYING" zone. In that order NATO planes shot-downed some Serb planes. But NATO let Coratian army to use planes, Why? They succecfull bombard Serb refugess.

Also, don't forget that NATO also attacked Serbs in Bosnia.

SO much of "GREAT" Croatian and Muslim army.

Sanchezz

12-01-2006, 06:47 PM

That is NOT correct.
Only FOOL could think that occupation of RSK "Kryina" in 3-4 days is military succes. The truth is that it was an object of political agremment and trade.

There was significiant pressure on Serbs in Kryina and Bosnia from Belgrade and US to retreat all heawy weaponry(artilary,tanks...)Excuse was that Serbs in Bosnia and Kryina need to show "GOOD WILL" in interests of peace. US guranted saefty of Kryina.
When heawy weaponry retreat, there was impossible to defend Kryina, so with that heawy weaponry all Serb forces retreat.
Than "Storm" begun, and Croatian forces entered almost empty Serb towns. You see, towns like "Knin" could be hold for weeks.

Bosnian Serbs belief to US, and thay were tricked. So do NOT belief to US even when they sign papers.

Don't forget that Bosnia was "NO FLYING" zone. In that order NATO planes shot-downed some Serb planes. But NATO let Coratian army to use planes, Why? They succecfull bombard Serb refugess.

Also, don't forget that NATO also attacked Serbs in Bosnia.

SO much of "GREAT" Croatian and Muslim army.

As always you and me know that you are telling lies but you will go on lying no matter what i say,show or do so i wont try much.RSK was defeated by croatian and bosnian army cooperation end of story... President of RSK was given even a chance to form some kind of entity or canton inside of croatia he refused because he wanted only independence and he got noting... bad decision... Croatian army overpovered rsk army because it had 10x bigger manpower and supplies of western weapons from europe... and in 1995 it culminated by operation storm when croatian army gathered sufficient number of weapons to launch big enaugh operation to wipe out rsk army.... also bosnian 5th core attacked RSK from east - while croats attacked from west and south so rsk army found themselves sorrounded and overpovered..http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/5630/operationstormmapji5.jpg

DeepEyes

12-04-2006, 09:13 PM

As always you and me know that you are telling lies but you will go on lying no matter what i say,show or do so i wont try much.RSK was defeated by croatian and bosnian army cooperation end of story... President of RSK was given even a chance to form some kind of entity or canton inside of croatia he refused because he wanted only independence and he got noting... bad decision... Croatian army overpovered rsk army because it had 10x bigger manpower and supplies of western weapons from europe... and in 1995 it culminated by operation storm when croatian army gathered sufficient number of weapons to launch big enaugh operation to wipe out rsk army.... also bosnian 5th core attacked RSK from east - while croats attacked from west and south so rsk army found themselves sorrounded and overpovered..

Lies? Yea, right!

According to Vance plan (Vensov plan), JNA retreat from RSK, to be replaced by UN forces,their missin was to keep TRUCE between RSK and Croatia. When JNA retreat on May 1992, Serbs in RSK were practicly without weapons.And Croatian army used this and occupied part of RSK. RSK prepared counter-attack, but UN forces forbid them.

Croatia used this "scenario" during 1992-1995.They attack and occupied parts of RSK one-by-one.But when Serbs tried to counter-attack them, UN forces ( UNPROFOR ), forbid them.UNPROFOR did'n do anything to STOP Croatia Violates TRUCE (Vance's plan).

How NATO (UNPROFOR) helped Croatia: Example:

http://www.shape.nato.int/docu/handbook/2001/hb050102.htm

On 4th August 1995 NATO aircraft conducted air strikes against Croatian Serb air defence radars near Udbina airfield and Knin in Croatia.
Note that same day Croatian operation "Storm" begun.
ON 5th August 1995 Croatian army occupied Knin. Coincidence?

NATO (UNPROFOR) didn't protect Serbs against Croatian operation "Storm" . They even don't mention that. Like it didn't happened. In that days more than 250 000 Serb refugees escapes from RSK, and about 1 000 civilians were killed by Croatian army, in 4 days and UN didn't do anything.

This is obviously evidence that UN forces ( NATO ) was used to fight against Serbs and to Help Croats and Muslims.
So Croatian army is strong, but only with NATO help.

spirit

12-06-2006, 04:50 PM

Занимљиво, има ту доста истине. :nerd1:

spirit

12-08-2006, 06:23 PM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/1412.jpg

DeepEyes

12-10-2006, 09:40 PM

They have been repeared? It supose to be 5 of them?

spirit

12-11-2006, 04:36 PM

No not yet, they are going to be repaired and modernized in 2007, as son as money form “national investment plan” (1.6 billion euros) is realest.

There are only 4 Mig-29’s on this picture, but Serbian air force has 5 Mig-29’s.

spirit

12-12-2006, 01:22 PM

Sanchezz

12-12-2006, 02:28 PM

Thats the reason why bosnia and montenegro were called in CEFTA (preparation treaty for joining NATO) And serbia was left behind :)

DeepEyes

12-15-2006, 09:23 PM

Thats the reason why bosnia and montenegro were called in CEFTA (preparation treaty for joining NATO) And serbia was left behind :)

Good for you!!!
Now your solders will be able to go to fight for American OIL interests in Iraq and Afghanistan. What an honor!!!

DeepEyes

12-15-2006, 10:26 PM

I wonder hove does it feel to fly Mig-21 and then F-16.

Same as, when you drive Yugo Koral 55 1.1 and then you sit in VW Golf 4 1.9 TDI :)

spirit

12-17-2006, 06:11 PM

Same as, when you drive Yugo Koral 55 1.1 and then you sit in VW Golf 4 1.9 TDI :)

He, he :shocked4:

DeepEyes

12-17-2006, 08:43 PM

If someone told me this 3 year ago, I wouldn’t believe him.
Group of Serbian military pilots went to NATO air base in Italy, to “test” F-16.
They were introduced to F-16 characteristics and then they flown one of the best fighters on the world, same fighters that they had to fight in 1999.
I wonder hove does it feel to fly Mig-21 and then F-16.
Serbian president Boris Tadic say that when he sine’s “partnership for peace”, Serbian air force will be able to by new aircraft.
Serbia didn’t invest in its air force for 20 years (do to lack of money, and sanctions), only exception is G-4, this home made aircraft was modernized and upgraded.

Better days for Serbian air force are coming.

My god, do you really think that?
Today US had great inflyence over Serbia. And they will only help us to disappear. Serbia's army are destroyed under excuse of reorganisation. US ambassador in Serbia Mr. Michael C. Polt, said that Army of Serbia should look like National Guard of US state of Ohio. That is funny. 'cause primary mission of American national guard is to help civilians in cases of natural disasters(floods, earthquakes...).
Why he didn't say that Serbia's army should look like US Marine forces???
You see, Serb special forces are reformed, and today Serbia had ONLY 1000 SPECIAL SOLDERS!!!!! Like we forgot who fighted against Albanian terorists on Kosovo since 1997.
Also he said that another mission of Serbia's Army is to go to "peace" missions(Iraq,Afghanistan...to fight for US OIL interests).

You think that those Mig-29's will be repeared??? Keep dreaming. They talk about it since 2004. Problem is our politics and US.

spirit

12-21-2006, 06:54 PM

My god, do you really think that?
Today US had great inflyence over Serbia. And they will only help us to disappear. Serbia's army are destroyed under excuse of reorganisation. US ambassador in Serbia Mr. Michael C. Polt, said that Army of Serbia should look like National Guard of US state of Ohio. That is funny. 'cause primary mission of American national guard is to help civilians in cases of natural disasters(floods, earthquakes...).
Why he didn't say that Serbia's army should look like US Marine forces???
You see, Serb special forces are reformed, and today Serbia had ONLY 1000 SPECIAL SOLDERS!!!!! Like we forgot who fighted against Albanian terorists on Kosovo since 1997.
Also he said that another mission of Serbia's Army is to go to "peace" missions(Iraq,Afghanistan...to fight for US OIL interests).

You think that those Mig-29's will be repeared??? Keep dreaming. They talk about it since 2004. Problem is our politics and US.

What do you want JNA?
That time is over, from 10 years we were against USA and look at Serbian now. Bulgaria and Romania are going in to EU, and we are years behind them.
How do you expect us to go to war whit Albanian terrorists, whit T-55 or Mig-21?
Yes, nice equipment, only 40 years old.
We cannot get in to NATO whit that equipment, we need now stuff, something for 21s century battlefield. If you ask me this is good thing, more money for the army, new equipment…
“Serbia had ONLY 1000 SPECIAL SOLDERS” if Sanchezz sad this I wouldn’t be surprised, but you.
Newly formed Special Forces brigade (63. paratrooper brigade, 72. special brigade, and cobra) has 1200 soldiers in pace time, around 2000 in war time.
There are 10 to 15 more army Special Forces brigades.
Serbian police has its Special Forces brigade like gendarmerie or SAJ/PTJ.
Mig-29s and Mil-24s are going to be repaired and modernized when money from national investment plan is realest (2007).

spirit

12-21-2006, 06:55 PM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_Mi-17205B15D.jpg

spirit

12-21-2006, 07:14 PM

63. Specula brigade
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/124124312.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/4124214.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/1231231.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/13213.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/12412.jpg

razhar

12-22-2006, 02:02 AM

this thread is little bit raciast,fantasy and useless...can we start something usefull? and any claims must be validated with the pictures,.

spirit

12-22-2006, 06:03 PM

this thread is little bit raciast,fantasy and useless...can we start something usefull? and any claims must be validated with the pictures,.

WTF?:worried2:

azrael

12-24-2006, 10:37 PM

Serbia as all of the nations of the balkans, except for romania , will not disappear from the face of the earth, they all have well educated populations and for the most part hard working people and have contributed greatly to advancement of mankind and still have more to contribute to the greatness of the human species. In the balkans , regardless of what country you are in, there are well engrained bandits who have to much influence over the lives of the common people. They get rich whie most suffer, this is true as much in bosnia as it is in croatia and as it is in serbia. You and i are in different sides of the wars that serbia's leaders dragged serbia into, i know the arguments ,unity , legalisms ,etc... i also know what happened and yes serbs suffered just like everyone else. My nation contributed to that suffering in some degree because we felt we had to stop serbia from continuing her policies, you will not agree with that assesment but it was that bad from our eyes and yes we had people on the ground to see first hand what truly happened. You've seen enough of the videos to know there was no honour in that war only survival.

I'm sure that serbia in time will recover from the effects of the wars and that the will of the serbian people to have a good life will finally oust corrupt elements of the government and return serbia to her rightful place as a protector and contributer to the greater human civilization that is slowly knitting itself together around the world. I have no problem with these posts ,even though i take a dim view of the conduct of certain units i don not believe in hiding things or being ashamed of one's history ; good and bad, what has happened has happened, what will happen that is the only thing we can be expected to have any control over and hopefully you much as serbia will choose to seek a 'unity' of the balkans not built upon force of arms but upon the common brotherhood that serbia shares with all of her neighbors, except romania.

speaking of which,
WTF?:worried2:
do not use this again, be more polite in the future , razumijete?

DeepEyes

12-25-2006, 07:41 PM

azrael

12-25-2006, 08:52 PM

What military threats are there facing serbia? The big nations surrounding serbia are hungary, bulgaria and rumania; and none of them are stupid, they would never trade their economic growth and their integration with the e.u. for a few hectares of serbian soil. This is not the second world war , land does not equal power, unless there is oil underneath it. Do you know how much money rumania makes from it's citizens who legally hold jobs in the core e.u. states and send back large sums of money to be spent and invested in their homeland? Why would they trade this for land infected with land mines? The only threat faced by serbia from these three is maybe from rumania , but that isn't a military threat , it's a law enforcement problem.

Of the smaller nations, macedonia and albania are basket cases, they can barely hold themselves together let alone attack a neighboring country. Kosovo is a un protectorate and again the only threat from it will have to do with smuggling problems. Bosnia's army is 1/3 drawn from the VoReSer and the other 2/3's bosniac/croat part of bosnia as well as croatia want nothing to do with more war. This may be hard for you to understand but for the most part the croats and bosniacs want to move on and move forward from the war , for them it was an unneccesary nightmare that interrupted their lives, they don't want to live the war anymore, they want to become europeans and have their children enjoy european lifestyles. Serbia's priorities should be rebuilding her economy and her society, kicking out the bandits and making peace with her own soul not trying to build up an army that is not needed chasing after f-16s that have no use to legitimate defence or making enemies for no reason.

Teh'ran has never closed her eyes to the balkans, we share the same dream for the balkans that all of her peoples carry in their hearts, one of peace, economic prosperiety and regional integration as a prelude to full e.u. membership. But some in belgrade would seek to curry favour with the zionist hoping that they can wield their influence in washington to stop kosovo's independence. This won't happen , the zionist influence is not like the river tara, it is more like a bucket of water in the desert, they do not give it away freely to every thirsty person that asks, they trade it , what do you have to offer them? And what will be the cost ? Will it wind up costing you more than you have already lost? And remember when i say lost, i do not refer to land, i refer to the cost to serbian society from the wars, the loss of most of your most brillant scientist and engineers to places like australia and canada, the rise of the bandits to the highest levels of power in the state. Will the zionist reverse these losses or make them worst?

There is an old saying from my village, when you're riding your horse and you look behind you to see you've taken a wrong turn instead of riding the horse with it's arse forward you should just turn the horse around. Isn't it time for serbia to turn around so it can move forward?

Sanchezz

12-26-2006, 05:27 PM

Serbia need army that is proportional with heighbour countries.
Croatia had about 4.5 milion population and 20 000 prof solders.
Kosovo potection corpus (Albanians) on Kosovo ~1.5 milion pop and 20 000 solders.
Albania about 3 mililon population and 17-18 000 solders i think?
Serbia had ~8 milion populatiaon and about 21 000 prof solders!!!
Do you see the problem.

-Croatia has 6.5 million people. - 20 000 soldiers
-Albania has 4 million people 16 000
-Bosnia 4,5 million. 12 000 + 5000 active reserv.

Thing is non of these nations want to go to war with anyone... we want to live in piece and prosper we are not savages.And you serbs if u want to fight why dont you fight between each other - because no one wants to go to war with you :huh2:

DeepEyes

12-27-2006, 07:20 PM

-Croatia has 6.5 million people. - 20 000 soldiers
-Albania has 4 million people 16 000
-Bosnia 4,5 million. 12 000 + 5000 active reserv.

Thing is non of these nations want to go to war with anyone... we want to live in piece and prosper we are not savages.And you serbs if u want to fight why dont you fight between each other - because no one wants to go to war with you :huh2:

I was expecting this ansver from you Sanchezz, as allways you "adjust" numbers to figure your anti-Serb propaganda.
Croatia have 4,5 milion population NOT 6,5 milion (year 2006)
Albania have 3.6 milion population NOT 4 milion (year 2006, i think)
http://encarta.msn.com/fact_631504749/Croatia_Facts_and_Figures.html
http://encarta.msn.com/fact_631504709/Albania_Facts_and_Figures.html

As Serbia have app 7,5 - 8 milion population without Kosovo and Metohia , Serbia should have about 30 000, no more,prof solders.
Accoridng to this Serbia army is NOT equal with neibhour countries, as it's army is too weak to it's (land mass, population, geo-strategis position...). They should be EQUAL!!! Thats all.

DeepEyes

12-27-2006, 07:23 PM

What military threats are there facing serbia?

Lets start form the Kosovo and Metohia. Today UN troops are kepping peace, but look what happened on Kosovo and Metohia on 17-18 march 2004. UN troops didn't do aything to protect non-albanians (Serbs, Montenegrians, Gypsys...) from Albanian terorists. So Albanian terorists can do anything on Kosovo and Metohia today. They could enter inner Serbia and destabilize us.

Albanian terorists wanted to destabilise teritory of Serbia outside of Kosovo and Metohia(Far south of Serbia,towns of: Presevo,Bujanovac and Medvedja) in 2001 or 2000 i think.And YU army then stopped them.

There is much more problems... with all neighbour countries. I'm not saying that they will attack us. But for Example: FYR Macedonia is wery unstable, and conflict could spread to Serbia.

Onli strong army could provide stability for further economic development, as storng, but EQUAL with other countries, an army serves as prevention. (why USA don't attack IRAN, 'cause they are scared).

DeepEyes

12-27-2006, 07:25 PM

Spirit, what about new Serbian heavy tank "Vihor", i couldn't find anything.

azrael

12-27-2006, 09:35 PM

Lets start form the Kosovo and Metohia. Today UN troops are kepping peace, but look what happened on Kosovo and Metohia on 17-18 march 2004. UN troops didn't do aything to protect non-albanians (Serbs, Montenegrians, Gypsys...) from Albanian terorists. So Albanian terorists can do anything on Kosovo and Metohia today. They could enter inner Serbia and destabilize us.

Albanian terorists wanted to destabilise teritory of Serbia outside of Kosovo and Metohia(Far south of Serbia,towns of: Presevo,Bujanovac and Medvedja) in 2001 or 2000 i think.And YU army then stopped them.

There is much more problems... with all neighbour countries. I'm not saying that they will attack us. But for Example: FYR Macedonia is wery unstable, and conflict could spread to Serbia.

Chances are very good that kosovo may union with albania and thus it's internal affiairs will not concern serbia proper, further the only threat that kosovo will possibly be to serbia is a crimanal smuggling problem and this is best solved with serbia's police and paramilitaries , not with the use of serbia's army.

You are correct , macedonia is very unstable, but if something horrible happens there anticipate refugees in helene, not in serbia. Further macedonian frontier with serbia is heavily mined , and macedonia has little offensive ability so the only way that a conflict in macedonia will involve serbia is if serbia chooses to involve itself. Does serbia really want to fight another war? someone elses civil war?

The kosovo/serbia frontier is porous because of smuggling. Too many of the law enforcement personnel on both sides are afraid of the gangs/mafias that run the black market so they accept the bribes/bakhshseesh to stay alive. If a serb border guard stops a shipment that a serbian gang wants to smuggle from the free ports of albania thru kosovo into serbia, then they will find that police man the next day in a stream with a bullet in his head and everyone will say a terrorist killed him. But what they don't understand is that also his family has been beaten up, his wife raped and his brother killed, this is how business is handled in belgrade, the gangs send warnings by making examples out of honourable men that stand up to them so that good police keep their mouth shut and their eyes closed and their head down.

what about new Serbian heavy tank "Vihor", i couldn't find anything.

The vihor medium tank (40tons, yugoslav bridges can not support heavy 60ton tanks) which was to be a replacement to the m-84 was cancelled with the break up of the yugoslav federation just like the novi avion fighter. Instead serb army developed the m-2001 upgrade package for the m-84 by using a new fire control system based on slovenian fcs , which was to be used on vihor, plus russian reactive armour (kontakt 5) and russian active protection system shtora and there was talk of later units having the ability to mount arena, but arena is very expensive usd 300,000, so to the best of my knowledge they never installed arena.

spirit

12-29-2006, 02:13 PM

Serbia as all of the nations of the balkans, except for romania , will not disappear from the face of the earth, they all have well educated populations and for the most part hard working people and have contributed greatly to advancement of mankind and still have more to contribute to the greatness of the human species. In the balkans , regardless of what country you are in, there are well engrained bandits who have to much influence over the lives of the common people. They get rich whie most suffer, this is true as much in bosnia as it is in croatia and as it is in serbia. You and i are in different sides of the wars that serbia's leaders dragged serbia into, i know the arguments ,unity , legalisms ,etc... i also know what happened and yes serbs suffered just like everyone else. My nation contributed to that suffering in some degree because we felt we had to stop serbia from continuing her policies, you will not agree with that assesment but it was that bad from our eyes and yes we had people on the ground to see first hand what truly happened. You've seen enough of the videos to know there was no honour in that war only survival.

I'm sure that serbia in time will recover from the effects of the wars and that the will of the serbian people to have a good life will finally oust corrupt elements of the government and return serbia to her rightful place as a protector and contributer to the greater human civilization that is slowly knitting itself together around the world. I have no problem with these posts ,even though i take a dim view of the conduct of certain units i don not believe in hiding things or being ashamed of one's history ; good and bad, what has happened has happened, what will happen that is the only thing we can be expected to have any control over and hopefully you much as serbia will choose to seek a 'unity' of the balkans not built upon force of arms but upon the common brotherhood that serbia shares with all of her neighbors, except romania.

speaking of which,

do not use this again, be more polite in the future , razumijete?

I am wary sorry for you, but you can’t tell me what to write in my posts!
RAZUMEŠ:frown3:

spirit

12-29-2006, 02:14 PM

Spirit, what about new Serbian heavy tank "Vihor", i couldn't find anything.

Tank is not new
Osamdesetih godina proslog veka, vojna industrija bivse Jugoslavije bila je na svom vrhuncu. Dosledno su praceni svi savremeni trendovi u razvoju novog oruzja. Razvijane ili su u naoruzanje uvodjene potpuno nove generacije ratne tehnike. Verovatno najveci uspeh iz tih godina je bilo osvajanje licencne proizvodnje tenka M-84. Posle nekoliko serija osnovnog modela, prelazi se na proizvodnju nove verzije M-84A. Ohrabreni velikim medjunarodnim interesovanjem za tenk M-84A, pristupa se razvoju radikalno unapredjene verzije tenka M-84A- projektu V2001. Novi tenk, koji je ubrzo dobio ime Vihor, trebao je biti unapredjen u svim segmentima koji cine borbenu zilavost savremenog tenka: Vatrena moc, pokretljivost i oklopna zastita. Pocetkom ratnih dejstava dolazi do prekida razvoja novog tenka, u kome je ucestvovala cela Jugoslavija. Nedovrseni prototip je ostao u halama fabrike "Djuro Djakovic" u Slavonskom Brodu sa 70% dovrsenosti (po nekim verzijama samo kupola je ostala Hrvatima, a oklopno telo je prebaceno u Srbiju).

Vatrena moc novog tenka bila je znatno uvecana. Zadrzan je provereni top 2A46 sa tenka M-84A, ali uz novu tehnologiju izrade cevi i uz nove vrste municije. Primenjen je novi materijal, nova tehnologija termicke obrade uz novi nacin ojacavanja i koriscenje novih slojeva protiv habanja i povrsinsku zastitu. Razvijena je i nova termozastita topa, koja obezbedjuje ravnomernije hladjenje cevi topa i time sprecava nastanak deformacija cevi. Novi tenk Vihor trebao je imati samo dve vrste municije: novi sjedinjeni kumulativno-trenutni i poboljsani potkalibarni projektil. Ovo je rezultiralo povecanjem brzine paljbe, koja je dostigla 10 metaka u minuti. Pored ovoga razvijen novi SUV, sa odvojenim dnevnim i nocnim termovizijskim kanalom sa spregnutim laserskim meracem daljine i uz nove senzore. Radi postizanja zeljene verovatnoce prvog pogotka pri brzinama od 45km/h razvijen je i ispitan potpuno novi elektricni pogon kupole po horizontali i topa po vertikali. Novoj generaciji senzora pridodat je i senzor deformacije cevi topa, koji svaku promenu unosi u racunar SUV-a. Za novi tenk razvijen je i novi racunar za obradu podataka u realnom vremenu. Senzori vrste municije, goriva i ostalih resursa konstantno prate nivo popunjenosti i informacije prosledjuju nadredjenom nivou, sto olaksava planiranje daljih dejstava i logisticke zadatke. Jedna od najznacajnijih izmena je usavrsavanje automatskog punjaca topa, koji je bio relativno nepouzdan na tenku M-84, koje se ogleda u novoj arhitekturi automata, koji kontrolise racunar. Ozbiljnost rekonstrukcije vide se iz primera da novi automat za punjenje ima 340 elektro-mehanickih komponenti manje u odnosu na stari. Pomocno naoruzanje cini koaksijalni mitraljez 7,62mm i PAM od 12,7mm
Nova generacija nisansko-osmatrackih sprava omogucava komandiru da posebnim optickim kanalom prati rad nisandzije i da po potrebi preuzme nisanjenje i gadjanje preko duplih komandi. Nisandzija je imao: Dnevnu nisansku spravu sa integrisanim laserskim meracem daljine i video kamerom; nocnu nisansku spravu sa pojacivacem slike druge generacije ili termovizijskom kamerom. Komandir je trebao imati: okretnu kupolicu sa dnevno-nocnom spravom, video monitor povezan sa video sistemom, komandu za dovodjenje nisanske ose na cilj, komandu za preuzimanje kontrole nad SUV-om. SUV je obezbedjivao verovatnocu pogotka od 50% za cilj velicine 4,6x2,3m pri brzini kretanja cilja 40km/h, potkalibarnim projektilom na 2.000m, a za trenutno-kumulativni metak na 1.700m.
Pokretljivost bila je obezbedjena novom verzijom motora sa tenka M-84A. Novi motor V-46TK1 je bio snazniji za 147kW od prethodnika i dostizao 882kW (1.200KS), sto je tenku mase 44 tona obezbedjivalo odlicnu specificnu snagu od 20kW/t i ubrzanje od 0-32km/h za 7s, te maksimalnu brzinu od 72km/h. Najvece dostignuce kod "Vihora" je bio upravo motor, koji je nekim svojim resenjima bio jedinstven u svetu i kao takav uspostavio nove kriterijume. Naime to je prvi tenkovski motor u svetu na kome je postignuto da ima specificnu zapreminu manju od 1 kubnog decimetra po kilovatu snage i specificnu tezinu od 1,2kg po kilovatu. Citav motor i transmisija su instalirani u prostoru od 3,4 metara kubna to jest 265 kW po metru kubnom sto je bilo jedinstveno u tom trenutku i tesko nadamsivo na duze staze. Kao ilustracija ekonomicnosti ovog resenja moze posluziti primer da je motorno - transmisiona grupa tenka Leopard 2 smestena u prostoru od 7 metra kubna, tj. 157 kW po metru kubnom. Iako oba ova navedena vozila imaju istu specificnu snagu od 20 kW/t, Vihor bi verovatno imao vecu pokretljivost upravo zbog mnogo manjeg gubitka snage u transmisiji, te ekonomicnijih podsistema (Npr. za pogon sistema hladjenja Leoparda 2 je potrebno 120kW, a za tenk Vihor 60kW), te bi efektivna isporucena snaga bila mnogo veca.Zbog ovakvih rezultata i odabrano je ime Vihor. Motor sa pomocnim uredjajima mogao se zameniti za 50min. . U tenk Vihor ugradjena je i nova hidro-dinamicka transmisija, koja snagu prenosi na potpuno novi hodni deo (gusenice, potporni tockovi, vesanje i dr.). Naima transmisija koja je ugradjivana u model M-84A je vec bila maksimalno opterecena i iskoriscena i nije mogla dati zadovoljavajuci stepen upravljanja pri vecim brzinama, te dalje povecanje snage ne bi imalo efekta. Transmisija je imala pet stepena prenosa za napred i jedan za nazad. Povelo se racuna i o meksem ogibljenju i udobnosti posade uopste cime je omoguceno dejstvo i pri brzinama od 45km/h
Oklopna zastita bila je obezbedjena novim nacinom izrade kupole, koja je spoljasnjim oblikom bila prilagodjena za ekplozivno-raktivni oklop. Oklop je viseslojni, a u prednjem delu kupole je uliveno jezgro od nemetala. U odnosu na M-84 promenjeni su uglovi, debljina i oblici pancirnih ploca, a zadnji deo je prosiren za ugradnju dodatne opreme. Povecanje ukupne mase za 3t u odnosu na M-84 verovatno je posledica veceg nivoa oklopne zastite. Poboljsana je i protiv-kumulativna zastita primenom novih protiv-kumulativnih stitnika, od novih materijala.
Oklopnoj zastiti, odnosno mogucnosti prezivljavanja na bojistu, doprinosi i mala silueta. te velika pokretljivost. Ugradjen je i senzor laserskog ozracenja tenka.
Vihor je trebao imati standardnu dodatnu opremu koju bi cinio kolektivni NHB uredjaj, oprema za podvodnu voznju, novi sistem za gasenje pozara. Sa obe strane kupole ugradjeno je po 12 bacaca dimnih kutija, a iz pojedinih bacaca mogle su se izbaciti i defanzivne rucne bombe. Jos u toku projektovanja razvijen je i novi simulator TDSA, za obuku posada.

azrael

12-29-2006, 03:06 PM

impressive , 26.8 hp/ton improves upon the m-84's 20 hp/ton ratio quite well, but does that add up to 0-32km/s in 7sec? upravo motor? management motor; this is not the term for transmission. davati briny objašnjenje.

spirit

12-29-2006, 04:47 PM

spirit

12-29-2006, 04:50 PM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/1231.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/66.jpg

DeepEyes

12-29-2006, 08:51 PM

You are correct , macedonia is very unstable, but if something horrible happens there anticipate refugees in helene, not in serbia. Further macedonian frontier with serbia is heavily mined , and macedonia has little offensive ability so the only way that a conflict in macedonia will involve serbia is if serbia chooses to involve itself. Does serbia really want to fight another war? someone elses civil war?

No, you didn't understood. If Albanians in Macedornia rebel again, there is a great chance that Albanians in South Serbia rebell to, like they did in 2001 or 2002 I don't remember.

DeepEyes

12-29-2006, 08:55 PM

Veoma iscrpno Spirit! A cuo sam i da je motor za 84-ku proizveden u Bosni i da je kasnije SSSR uvozio iste za svoje tenkove?

azrael

12-29-2006, 09:19 PM

No, you didn't understood. If Albanians in Macedornia rebel again, there is a great chance that Albanians in South Serbia rebell to, like they did in 2001 or 2002 I don't remember.

The idea of greater albania is primarily a serbian phantasm. Most kosovers would at most accept a union with albania only if they have significant autonomy from tirana. Most kosovo people did not have a problem living with serbs under serbian rule, this was not an issue until milosevic started his policy of forbidding the albanian language from being used and he started other discriminatory policies. Even then most kosovo albani did nothing, they were raised to be yugosalvs and thought that after milosevic left things would slowly get back to normal, then the serb refugees from wars came, mainly from croatia, and every kosovo person knew that it didn't matter if milosevic was there or not, they would either be forced out or have to accept being second class citizen in the land of their birth. Then they asked for help.

Now kosovo has problems because too many albanian and serb gangs use it to transit narcotics, people, weapons etc.. Everyone looks the other way and kosovo suffers. The italians don't stop the boats because the italian mafia controls the drug trade , the serbs don't stop it because too many bandits in office get money and power from the serb gangs that control the narcotics, prostituion in serbia and the smuggling rings. The albanians don't stop it because all of the leaders in tirana are corrupt, The kosovos don't stop it because they have no power , the gangs from albania and serbia are more powerful than local police and NATO doesn't want to involve itself in police functions.

If serbia treats albanians in south serbia with even a little respect, then they will never wish to follow kosovos difficult and painful example, but if serbia chooses to repeat the mistakes of milosevic then who is to say what the future shall become.

spirit

12-30-2006, 02:09 PM

Veoma iscrpno Spirit! A cuo sam i da je motor za 84-ku proizveden u Bosni i da je kasnije SSSR uvozio iste za svoje tenkove?

Nisam siguram ali mislim da je negde oko 1500-2000 motora izvezeno u SSSR, sto je sitnica za nihove oklopne snage.
Motor je proizvodio FAMOS...
Jedan od boljih motora koji je izasao iz nase vojne industrije.:smile1:

DeepEyes

01-02-2007, 09:39 AM

issue until milosevic started his policy of forbidding the albanian language from being used and he started other discriminatory policies. .

This is not true.I see that you know something, but jet not enough. Go find some articles about Kosovo and Metohia, before 1989, and after, and problems there.
For example, on Kosovo and Metohia Albanian language were official too. Television, news papers(Koha Ditore- i beleive), driver licenses, personell documents, traffic signs, universitu in Pristina on Albanian language(I'm not sure for this), all Albanan and Serbian language.
Albanians on Kosovo and Metohia wanted independence looooong before Milosevic. That's all. I allredy posted something about Constitution of Serbia before 1989. Read carefully.

spirit

01-02-2007, 01:06 PM

This is not true.I see that you know something, but jet not enough. Go find some articles about Kosovo and Metohia, before 1989, and after, and problems there.
For example, on Kosovo and Metohia Albanian language were official too. Television, news papers(Koha Ditore- i beleive), driver licenses, personell documents, traffic signs, universitu in Pristina on Albanian language(I'm not sure for this), all Albanan and Serbian language.
Albanians on Kosovo and Metohia wanted independence looooong before Milosevic. That's all. I allredy posted something about Constitution of Serbia before 1989. Read carefully.

Yes man you are totally right. Albanians wanted independence during the Tito era and that is long before Milosevic. When Tito ordered JNA or police to put down the traits they would do that in wary smart way.
Albanians wanted independent Kosovo, no problem, just get them in to busses and send them to fu****g Albania. There they can do what ever they want there.
But Yugoslavia was powerful then, in 1998/99 Yugoslavia is tired and exhausted from wars and sanctions.

spirit

01-02-2007, 01:08 PM

There is great possibility of another war on Kosovo. But this time Albanian terrorists would have to fight NATO and US first, only after that they can fight SERBIAN ARMY.
In January/February 2007 Kosovo status in going to be solved and it doesn’t look pretty for Albanian terrorists, if UN gives independence to the region they would spit on themselves. Russia gave Serbia possibility to use Russian veto right in case we don’t like solution to the problem. USA is doing this whit Israel for wary long time (last time in Israel VS Hezbollah war).
I can’t wait to see American faces when Russia uses veto to stop Kosovo getting independent.

azrael

01-02-2007, 02:15 PM

This is not true.I see that you know something, but jet not enough. Go find some articles about Kosovo and Metohia, before 1989, and after, and problems there.
For example, on Kosovo and Metohia Albanian language were official too. Television, news papers(Koha Ditore- i beleive), driver licenses, personell documents, traffic signs, universitu in Pristina on Albanian language(I'm not sure for this), all Albanan and Serbian language.
Albanians on Kosovo and Metohia wanted independence looooong before Milosevic. That's all. I allredy posted something about Constitution of Serbia before 1989. Read carefully.

In july 1990 serbia officially dissolved Kosovo's government and took executive control. The complete removal of Kosovo's autonomy was completed in September when a change in the Serbian constitution redefined Kosovo as a region in Serbia, with administrative and executive control now in the hands of the Serbian National Assembly. The emergency measures imposed by Serbia resulted in a de-Albanianization of cultural and educational institutions in kosovo with a consequent re- Serbianization occurring.

DeepEyes

01-03-2007, 10:08 AM

spirit

01-03-2007, 12:33 PM

Of course Serbia regain controll of one of it's province in 1990. Before that, province of Kosovo and Metohia had much more power. Let me say again: "senators" form Kosovo and Metohia were in Serbia's parlament, and there was no "senators" from Serbia in Kosovo's parlament. With this KosovoAndMetohia had influence over Serbia, horewer Serbia had no influence over Kosovo and Metohia. This were unique case that province had more power than country. So only "forgein" power in Kosovo and Metohia were Federal army. Without them Kosovo and Metohia will be independent.
What rights Albanians wanted on Kosovo and Metohia before 1999. making comparation with similar cases in world like: Hungarians in north Serbia, Serbs in Hungaria, Bascia in Spain, Corsica in France, Northen Ireland in UK, Trento-Adige in Italy...

The more I see you write these things, the more I’m starting to like you.
Albanians lived better under the Serbian rule then now, as a mater of fact they will not live that good for another 20-30 :wub2: years.
As long as Kosovo is part of Serbia there will be no infestations in that aria, only infestations that are coming are those from Serbia and those are going to Serbian enclaves. Something like Israel-Gaza relation.

Sanchezz

01-03-2007, 04:13 PM

Nisam siguram ali mislim da je negde oko 1500-2000 motora izvezeno u SSSR, sto je sitnica za nihove oklopne snage.
Motor je proizvodio FAMOS...
Jedan od boljih motora koji je izasao iz nase vojne industrije.:smile1:

Koje "vase" vojne industrije ??? FAMOS=Fabrika MOtora Sarajevo
Znam jednog od glavnih inzinjera koji je radio na projektu.

PS:About KOSOVO .... its finished story kosovo will be independent in a mont or two no need to speak about that anymore (btw 92% of population on kosovo is ALBANIAN) - PS:Americans are now in exelent cooperation with russia ... And even if russia would threaten with veto americans would give them some kind of political/ecconomical benifiets and they would back down as always.... you think that russia cares about serbia because you are orthodox??? well sory to dissapoing you they are just watching for their OWN intrests. BTW where was russia when NATO blew the hell out of serbia ????
As for serbia it has two choices ... to continue its warmongering idiotic politics wich only results in harm to serbia ... or to change and starts acting as a normal country.

STOP DREAMING YOU ARE NOT ISRAEL .....

Mohmar 'Deathstrike'

01-04-2007, 07:11 AM

spirit

01-04-2007, 09:37 AM

Koje "vase" vojne industrije ??? FAMOS=Fabrika MOtora Sarajevo
Znam jednog od glavnih inzinjera koji je radio na projektu.

PS:About KOSOVO .... its finished story kosovo will be independent in a mont or two no need to speak about that anymore (btw 92% of population on kosovo is ALBANIAN) - PS:Americans are now in exelent cooperation with russia ... And even if russia would threaten with veto americans would give them some kind of political/ecconomical benifiets and they would back down as always.... you think that russia cares about serbia because you are orthodox??? well sory to dissapoing you they are just watching for their OWN intrests. BTW where was russia when NATO blew the hell out of serbia ????
As for serbia it has two choices ... to continue its warmongering idiotic politics wich only results in harm to serbia ... or to change and starts acting as a normal country.

STOP DREAMING YOU ARE NOT ISRAEL .....

Sto se tice FAMOSA, tu nema sta, fabrika je iz bosne ali radial je za JUGOSLOVENSKU VOJNU INDUSTRIJU, JUGOSLAVIA=SRBIJA.
Kada se JNA povukla iz Bosne, tj. kad bosna nije vise bila u sastavu YU. te fabrike su prestale da rade, tj nisu imale kome da prodaju svoje proizvode. JNA ni u ludilu nije htala da kupuje motore iz bosne kada su postajale mogucnosti da se takav motor proizvede kod kuce.
Sve u svemu nista od te vojne industrije sto je ostala u BiH ne radi.

PS: Kosovo will not get independent from Serbia… you’ll see that in January/February 2007. Just wait and see.
Yes Serbs are minority on Kosovo, 150.000-200.000 Serbs live on Kosovo, 2 000.000 Albanians live on Kosovo. I can’t deny this and I will not do so.
Russia is more powerful now then in 90’s, there are million reasons for this, first and biggest is collapse of SSSR, lost war in Afghanistan, wars in Chechnya and other things. Russian economy was… actually there was no Russian economy at the time.
Now Russia is becoming more powerful by every day, tanks to its massive oil and gas reserves. Toady Russian survival is not linked to EU aid; it is other way around, if Russia doesn’t sell gas to EU states it is going to be cold winter.
PS: There is no love in politics, Russian and Serbian PEOPLE may fill some brotherhood, but politics is only about inters. Yes we been together true history, go tell it to politicians and they are going to say “so what?”. Luckily for us Russia has BIG, and that is BIG, inters in Kosovo problem and Kosovo solution. More countries have inters in Kosovo and they are wiling to help Serbia, states like Spain, Italy, Romania, Greece, RS…
Serbia is offering to Albanians, really good solution, but they don’t want to see it.
Serbia is now democratic contrary, it is going for EU, Serbs are living normally, everyone wants peaceful solution far Kosovo. It is easy to go in to war, but is hard to stay out.:suspicious4:

azrael

01-05-2007, 12:44 AM

There were 168.000 serbs in kosovo in 2003 , now it is generally considered that there are less than 120,000 and dropping. Only 12% of the serbian people believe that kosovo will remain in serbia, most have resigned themselves to it's seperation.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Prizen_kosovo.jpg
My apologies to the families of these albanian people for using these pictures, but sometimes it is neccesary to remember why kosovo will never want to accept any solution offered by belgrade.

Sanchezz

01-05-2007, 06:13 AM

Sto se tice FAMOSA, tu nema sta, fabrika je iz bosne ali radial je za JUGOSLOVENSKU VOJNU INDUSTRIJU, JUGOSLAVIA=SRBIJA.
Kada se JNA povukla iz Bosne, tj. kad bosna nije vise bila u sastavu YU. te fabrike su prestale da rade, tj nisu imale kome da prodaju svoje proizvode. JNA ni u ludilu nije htala da kupuje motore iz bosne kada su postajale mogucnosti da se takav motor proizvede kod kuce.
Sve u svemu nista od te vojne industrije sto je ostala u BiH ne radi.

PS: Kosovo will not get independent from Serbia… you’ll see that in January/February 2007. Just wait and see.
Yes Serbs are minority on Kosovo, 150.000-200.000 Serbs live on Kosovo, 2 000.000 Albanians live on Kosovo. I can’t deny this and I will not do so.
Russia is more powerful now then in 90’s, there are million reasons for this, first and biggest is collapse of SSSR, lost war in Afghanistan, wars in Chechnya and other things. Russian economy was… actually there was no Russian economy at the time.
Now Russia is becoming more powerful by every day, tanks to its massive oil and gas reserves. Toady Russian survival is not linked to EU aid; it is other way around, if Russia doesn’t sell gas to EU states it is going to be cold winter.
PS: There is no love in politics, Russian and Serbian PEOPLE may fill some brotherhood, but politics is only about inters. Yes we been together true history, go tell it to politicians and they are going to say “so what?”. Luckily for us Russia has BIG, and that is BIG, inters in Kosovo problem and Kosovo solution. More countries have inters in Kosovo and they are wiling to help Serbia, states like Spain, Italy, Romania, Greece, RS…
Serbia is offering to Albanians, really good solution, but they don’t want to see it.
Serbia is now democratic contrary, it is going for EU, Serbs are living normally, everyone wants peaceful solution far Kosovo. It is easy to go in to war, but is hard to stay out.:suspicious4:

"JUGOSLAVIA=SRBIJA". - sorry and did you ask why did other countries declared independence from "yugoslavia"

Vitezit,pobjeda,dio famosa,vig,fabrike u travniku - i danas rade.most explosives from vitezit factory (biggest explosives factory in ex-yu) is being sold to serbia... ironic isnt it :D

As for kosovo even most of serbs accepted the real outcome and international monitor for kosovo said that most probable result is "observed INDEPENDENCE" - remember what you said.. il put quotes of you in my
signature :biggrin1:

As i sayed russia will be given some benefiets and they will hand over the point... even if they dont still independence will be granted :wub2:
Russia will never be on the level of USA... NEVER-because usa wouldnt allow that-USA is the leader OF NATO get the point.

Spain wont help - why would they ????? , greece maybe-probably not because they are in nato and theyl do as america says , Italy - funny because most of air raids on serbia came from italy ... no way they are going to help.Romania - how can they help ????? RS is not a country but an entity that is slowly dissapearing they cant help themselves not to mention serbia.

Serbia is democratic country with Imperalistic and mad goverment... unforunetly most of the people are like that to.And dont worry about eu you wont enter it in your lifetime spirit :wub2:

gmi serbia

01-05-2007, 06:22 PM

Do you know what theme is on this thread? Cccc you must ever talk about politics. May be something about combat military actions?

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=1403

DeepEyes

01-08-2007, 12:55 PM

There were 168.000 serbs in kosovo in 2003 , now it is generally considered that there are less than 120,000 and dropping. Only 12% of the serbian people believe that kosovo will remain in serbia, most have resigned themselves to it's seperation.
My apologies to the families of these albanian people for using these pictures, but sometimes it is neccesary to remember why kosovo will never want to accept any solution offered by belgrade.

Pictures that you post could be from anywhere. They could be Serbs that were klled by Albanian terorists , or Bosnian Muslims killed by Bosnian Serbs, or Bosnian Serbs killed by Bosnian Muslims...
Of course, if it is true that you are saying,... I could post some picures about albanian terorists crimes... but, war crimes are not subject of this forum. Isn't it?
Principle of your political propaganda is no welcome here.

You could pay atention to answers to your posts, and answer to them, instead you "change" subject and escape when you don't have answer. Like you did on previous page.

DeepEyes

01-08-2007, 01:21 PM

Spain wont help - why would they ????? , greece maybe-probably not because they are in nato and theyl do as america says , Italy - funny because most of air raids on serbia came from italy ... no way they are going to help.Romania - how can they help ????? RS is not a country but an entity that is slowly dissapearing they cant help themselves not to mention serbia.

Serbia is democratic country with Imperalistic and mad goverment... unforunetly most of the people are like that to.And dont worry about eu you wont enter it in your lifetime spirit :wub2:

Independence of Kosovo and Metohia will breake almost all international law. But I guess, when If that hapend to Serbia it is not illegal?

You know Sanchezz, there is something that is called INTERANTIONAL LAW.

Why Spain? It's easy. 'cause,Spain have simmilar problem(Bascia), and they are scared that it could separate on same way(referendum).
Also Grecce could expiriance same scenario like Yugoslavia did. As albanians live in greece too.
Italy also, France, Romania, Russia, China, UK, Bulgaria, Turkey, Canada... I alredy post this but I you don't want to read. I guess that your mission here is to Make problems and destroy this forum. By teh way people like you destroy Serbia millitary forum 1.

azrael

01-08-2007, 04:28 PM

Pictures that you post could be from anywhere. They could be Serbs that were klled by Albanian terorists , or Bosnian Muslims killed by Bosnian Serbs, or Bosnian Serbs killed by Bosnian Muslims...
Of course, if it is true that you are saying,... I could post some picures about albanian terorists crimes... but, war crimes are not subject of this forum. Isn't it?
Principle of your political propaganda is no welcome here.

You could pay atention to answers to your posts, and answer to them, instead you "change" subject and escape when you don't have answer. Like you did on previous page.

Take no offense, i was merely pointing out to a forum member why kosovo people may choose not to see how good of a 'solution' they are being offered. How the trust between kosovo and serbia has been broken by actions of milosevic and his group. This is not propaganda, this is history.

Serbia is offering to Albanians, really good solution, but they don’t want to see it.

Sanchezz

01-08-2007, 07:37 PM

Independence of Kosovo and Metohia will breake almost all international law. But I guess, when If that hapend to Serbia it is not illegal?

You know Sanchezz, there is something that is called INTERANTIONAL LAW.

Why Spain? It's easy. 'cause,Spain have simmilar problem(Bascia), and they are scared that it could separate on same way(referendum).
Also Grecce could expiriance same scenario like Yugoslavia did. As albanians live in greece too.
Italy also, France, Romania, Russia, China, UK, Bulgaria, Turkey, Canada... I alredy post this but I you don't want to read. I guess that your mission here is to Make problems and destroy this forum. By teh way people like you destroy Serbia millitary forum 1.

Funy i tought ill never witness this -SERB taliking about INTERNATIONAL right.If you know international laws you should know that region can declare independence with referendum if a country wich of wich is part is forcing change of goverment,pressing for lesser authonomy OR IN YOUR CASE DOING A GENOCIDE.

BTW: Funny most of those countrys you mentioned sent their airplanes to bomb serbia.Also dont forget that UN is administering kosovo.

And one more thing. We all know that those are photos of albanians executed by the serbs - YOU KNOW IT WE KNOW IT NO USE IN DENYING IT.

DeepEyes

01-08-2007, 09:11 PM

Take no offense, i was merely pointing out to a forum member why kosovo people may choose not to see how good of a 'solution' they are being offered. How the trust between kosovo and serbia has been broken by actions of milosevic and his group. This is not propaganda, this is history.

Ok, but your "point" diverts post topic.

Can you tell me something about why they shouldn't get independence?

What specific rights Albanians didn't have in Yugoslavia, so they started terorist actions to get it?

What rights they had?

How many police officers and civilians Albanian terorists killed until 1999?

Or about what happened in willage Racak in spring 1999. (before war)?

Is there was refugess in 1997? Or before 1999?

How Serbia should response on numerous Albanian terorist actions?

What happened in 17 march 2004?

DeepEyes

01-08-2007, 09:13 PM

Funy i tought ill never witness this -SERB taliking about INTERNATIONAL right.If you know international laws you should know that region can declare independence with referendum if a country wich of wich is part is forcing change of goverment,pressing for lesser authonomy OR IN YOUR CASE DOING A GENOCIDE.

BTW: Funny most of those countrys you mentioned sent their airplanes to bomb serbia.Also dont forget that UN is administering kosovo.

And one more thing. We all know that those are photos of albanians executed by the serbs - YOU KNOW IT WE KNOW IT NO USE IN DENYING IT.

Again Sanchezz with anti-Serb posts. How interesting.

With same internetional law "Republika Srpska" could separate from Bosnia and Herzegovina??? Cause Bosnia and Hercegovina repress "Republika Srpska" today.

I know it's funny, almost tragic. Same countries who attack YU 1999. claim that Iraq have weapons of mass destruction. And they attack Iraq.

Only fool can't or wont accept that USA don't care for human rights. Look how democratic Kosovo today is, or Iraq.

Or that doesn't count when Serbs want independence?

Can you tell me more about that Genocide???

Sanchezz

01-09-2007, 03:15 PM

Repressing it how ???? it didnt exist before 1992 when serbs programed a genocide and killed/expeled bosnian muslims from : Bijeljina,zvornik,brcko,visegrad,half of doboj,half of Banja Luka.then in 1995 un safezone srebrenica.

Serbs can wish independence but cannot gain it in bosnia because they took bosnian muslim lands and executed many to achieve their territorial goals.Serbs in bosnia dont have a federal republic just an entity that didnt exist before 1992.

Genocide - Genocide is a term defined by Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

DeepEyes

01-09-2007, 06:58 PM

Repressing it how ???? ."

Cro-Muslim federation today force "Reublika Srpska" to lose rights to have military,police... rights that are guranted by Dayton agreement.

it didnt exist before 1992 when serbs programed a genocide and killed/expeled bosnian muslims from : Bijeljina,zvornik,brcko,visegrad,half of doboj,half of Banja Luka.then in 1995 un safezone srebrenica.."

You didn't understood, tell me about Genocide on Kosovo and Metohia before 1990, 'cause Albanians wanted independence before 1990. And for course, genocide before 1999.

spirit

01-11-2007, 12:23 PM

"JUGOSLAVIA=SRBIJA". - sorry and did you ask why did other countries declared independence from "yugoslavia"

Vitezit,pobjeda,dio famosa,vig,fabrike u travniku - i danas rade.most explosives from vitezit factory (biggest explosives factory in ex-yu) is being sold to serbia... ironic isnt it :D

As for kosovo even most of serbs accepted the real outcome and international monitor for kosovo said that most probable result is "observed INDEPENDENCE" - remember what you said.. il put quotes of you in my
signature :biggrin1:

As i sayed russia will be given some benefiets and they will hand over the point... even if they dont still independence will be granted :wub2:
Russia will never be on the level of USA... NEVER-because usa wouldnt allow that-USA is the leader OF NATO get the point.

Spain wont help - why would they ????? , greece maybe-probably not because they are in nato and theyl do as america says , Italy - funny because most of air raids on serbia came from italy ... no way they are going to help.Romania - how can they help ????? RS is not a country but an entity that is slowly dissapearing they cant help themselves not to mention serbia.

Serbia is democratic country with Imperalistic and mad goverment... unforunetly most of the people are like that to.And dont worry about eu you wont enter it in your lifetime spirit :wub2:

Ok Sanchezz you can do what ever you want, I don’t care.

Other countries are wiling to help because they have BIG inters in Serbia, to be precise inters in Kosovo solution because they have similar problems!

Will see what will happen after 22 of January:) …

spirit

01-11-2007, 12:27 PM

spirit

01-11-2007, 12:29 PM

gmi serbia

01-13-2007, 07:10 PM

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/2770/invisiblejk6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:laugh4:

spirit

01-14-2007, 01:56 PM

Makes me laugh every time I see it.

spirit

01-23-2007, 04:14 PM

Gon4z

01-24-2007, 08:22 PM

So solution for Kosovo problem is going to be presented to Belgrade on 02.02.2007.
Solution is probably going to be some type of independence, will see.
Let’s just hope that Russia is going to use its right on veto, or something.
Serbian has to choose between billions of dollars of financial help from Europe and US or war and sanctions!

YEP... 1 week left for ATTISARIS solution...

ÇETNIKS won the elections, Serbs have no intention of letting go of Kosova, Albanians have no intention of lettings Serbs INVADE again, the world is stuck in the middle, What ever the decision one side will not be happy that’s why Serbs made the elections like this and now depending on ATTISARIS proposed solution for Kosova that is the way the new government will be formed, and another war will most likely break out probably sometime around MARCH.

Might go something like this…
First mass protests in both sides, and then Serbia shoving its forced in north of Kosova up to north of Mitrovicë, then maybe a staged short civil war between Albanians to get rid of the KFOR, and then a full scale war between SERBS & KOSOVAR-ALBANIANS

Ovich

02-05-2007, 05:46 AM

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

personal message me the links, i'll check them to ensure they're not spam, i.e. advertisements, then i'll post them for you in this post.
-azrael

Ovich

02-05-2007, 05:52 AM

Serbia lost hundreds of civilians, dozens of troops and retreated from Kosovo, while NATO lost nobody and advanced into Kosovo...Then again, Saddam always claimed his country won the 1991 Gulf War.
They losed their missile stock and its guest that its you that pays for that.
If your NATO come down in serbia you can count on 150000 troops lost quickly.

Mohmar 'Deathstrike'

02-05-2007, 06:04 PM

and another war will most likely break out probably sometime around MARCH.
ROFLMAO.
NEVER!They losed their missile stock and its guest that its you that pays for that.
If your NATO come down in serbia you can count on 150000 troops lost quickly.Missiles can be replaced within days. Peoplem bridges and buildings can't. Also, NATO drove Serbian forces out of Kosovo, which was their objective. Serbia wanted to keep sovereignty over Kosovo and failed. Therefore NATO won and Serbia won. It's not *my* NATO.

Mohmar 'Deathstrike'

02-06-2007, 01:46 PM

Okay this is definitely a spambot. Get rid of it, please.

tantor

02-16-2007, 01:13 PM

some serbian wooden tricks and real damage on mig-29

spirit

02-20-2007, 10:51 AM

They losed their missile stock and its guest that its you that pays for that.
If your NATO come down in serbia you can count on 150000 troops lost quickly.

He he lol Imbecile

spirit

02-20-2007, 10:52 AM

Thos are decoys (wooden machetes) made to be destroyed

spirit

02-20-2007, 10:53 AM

Photo taken after nato booming

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/1412.jpg

spirit

02-20-2007, 10:58 AM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/21341412412.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/41246.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/12312.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/BatAB32.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_Mi-17205B15D.jpg

Photos of Serbian air force taken after nato booming

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_2073307669_Srpske-oznake-6.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/18848_216512142_nove-oznake---raket.jpg

spirit

02-20-2007, 11:00 AM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/gb7.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/gb-10a.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/gb-9.jpg

Decoys
Kosovo 1999

TOMMYJO

02-20-2007, 11:14 AM

Photo taken after nato booming

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/1412.jpg

11 MiG-29s were lost in the conflict to all causes out of 16. The only ones that survived the conflict were

Conflict survivors:

Fulcrum A serials, 18101, 18102, 18105, and 18108.

Fulcrum B serial 18301.

After the conflict the Serbs returned to both the Dayton Accord and Vienna Document. They admitted to losing 50 declared combat aircraft. The MiG-21 suffered the most by type with approx 26 destroyed.

Fulcrum A's:

18101 survived conflict

18102 survived conflcit

18103 stripped of spares and used as decoy - destroyed

18104 Major Illic's aircraft combat damaged A2A on 24 March 1999. Stripped and later pushed out as a decoy airframe. Destroyed 11th May by cluster munition.

18105 survived conflcit

18106 shot down by Major Tankink (Royal Netherlands Air Force) Yugolsla pilot Milutinovic ejected successfully.

18107 stripped of spares and used as decoy - destroyed

18108 survived conflict

18109 shot down by Lt Col Geczy - Lt Col Pavlovic killed

18110 was lost on the 26th March 1999 due to pilot error (stalled on approach to landing) admitted by Major Slobodan Tesanovic, 127th Fighter Squadron.

18111 shot down by Captain Showers - Major Nikolic ejected successfully

18112 shot down by Lt. Col. Rodriquez - Major Arizanov ejected successfully

18113 shot down by Capt. Hwang - Capt. Radosavljevic killed

18114 shot down by Capt Hwang - Major Peric ejected successfully.

Fulcrum B's:

18301 - survived conflict

18302 - damaged during NATO bombing raid and later pushed out as decoy - destroyed.

spirit

02-20-2007, 02:25 PM

Yes those are Migs that survived booming, but one is missing on this photo.

Where did you get all these data?

TOMMYJO

02-20-2007, 02:42 PM

Yes those are Migs that survived booming, but one is missing on this photo.

Where did you get all these data?

Correct one is missing. They will be overhauled in Russia. Four during 2007 and apparently one in 2008.

The data comes from several sources. Yugoslav aviation researchers interviewing the surviving Yugoslav MIG-29 pilots. The pilots themselves during the court case in 2000 to try and convict the Chief of Air Force for negligence over the state of the MiG-29s. Air Forces Monthly visiting Batajnica over the years etc. The Air Combat Information Group - ACIG- also compiled some of the information.

TOMMYJO

02-20-2007, 02:45 PM

some serbian wooden tricks and real damage on mig-29

That last image isn't damage. That is a single seater partly dis-assembled for preservation and storage pending the decision for upgrade. The gunk, that looks like rust, is proper lubricants applied in order to preserve the airframe etc.

spirit

02-20-2007, 02:59 PM

Yes and 30 million euros later will have these guys guarding our sky’s once more

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig.jpg

Sanchezz

02-20-2007, 05:47 PM

Hm but isnt that a bad investment... They have proved useless against nato and its airforce... Maybe it would be smarter to buy some AA Missile systems ??

TOMMYJO

02-20-2007, 06:10 PM

Hm but isnt that a bad investment... They have proved useless against nato and its airforce... Maybe it would be smarter to buy some AA Missile systems ??

They are struggling for money. This is the cheapest solution until a decision is made, if ever, to obtain more modern fighters. The Serbs are not gearing for any other wars/conflicts. All they are doing is providing a basic fighter force to provide a quick reaction alert for airspace policing. For example stray private aircraft or alert for hijacked airliners.

The Serbs are already members of NATO's Partnership for Peace. USAF F-16s have now twice visited the Serb MiG-21/29 base and Serb pilots have flown in the two-seaters.

http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2006/12-december/e1214a.htm

azrael

02-20-2007, 07:44 PM

The Serbs are already members of NATO's Partnership for Peace.

I realise that serbia lost the kosovo war with nato, what i didn't realise was that serbia had been conquered and integrated by nato.

TOMMYJO

02-20-2007, 09:16 PM

I realise that serbia lost the kosovo war with nato, what i didn't realise was that serbia had been conquered and integrated by nato.

Huh? You seriously need to read up on Partnership for Peace.

http://www.nato.int/issues/pfp/index.html

After the collapse of the Milosovic government the new government saw the light and sought reform and aimed to be granted membership of Partnership for Peace.

azrael

02-20-2007, 09:37 PM

Huh? You seriously need to read up on Partnership for Peace.

http://www.nato.int/issues/pfp/index.html

After the collapse of the Milosovic government the new government saw the light and sought reform and aimed to be granted membership of Partnership for Peace.

After the collapse of the nazi government the new government(of east germany) saw the light and sought reform and aimed to be granted membership of the warsaw pact.

You can call defeat and conquest anything you fancy but It still amounts to the same thing.

TOMMYJO

02-20-2007, 10:18 PM

After the collapse of the nazi government the new government(of east germany) saw the light and sought reform and aimed to be granted membership of the warsaw pact.

You can call defeat and conquest anything you fancy but It still amounts to the same thing.

What are you on about? The democratic government of Serbia requested Partnership for Peace. This is a government elected by the Serb people. Where are you getting 'conquest' from?. Did you read up on Partnership for Peace?

Your analogy between Serbia and East Germany is flawed. East Germany was invaded and garrisoned by Soviet troops. Serbia wasn't invaded.

azrael

02-20-2007, 11:19 PM

TOMMYJO

02-21-2007, 09:00 AM

East germany or west germany( if you want a 'democratic' example) took a little more breaking(garrisoning in both cases) before they reoriented their policies and national objectives. But generally when a nation jetisons their entire ideology and then begs the side that bombed them into submission for the 'privelage' to serve alongside them in the future; it is referred to as conquest and integration. If it makes you feel better to use a sophism such as partnership for peace so be it, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept that the 'partnership for peace' is anything more than nato mopping up the shattered warsaw pact as well as unaligned states. But wait , nato is 'democratic' thus that makes it all okay.

Please spare me. The Serb populace were fed up with the old regime constantly bringing nothing but hardship. The economy was suffering with constant conflict. The populace were fed up with being labelled a 'pariah state'. It's over. Serbia isn't going to go back to the way it was. The future and way ahead is integration with the rest of Europe. Yes a minority will moan and whinge, but unfortunately that is tough. No future Serb government is going to commit suicide by going backwards. Serbia needs money and investment. No future Serb government is going to commit suicide by going backwards.

spirit

02-21-2007, 09:20 AM

Hm but isnt that a bad investment... They have proved useless against nato and its airforce... Maybe it would be smarter to buy some AA Missile systems ??

In 1999 Serbian Mig-29 fleet needed modernization badly!
Years of sanctions and wars did it’s to Migs and then they have to engage F-16 LOL:worried2: .
Serbia has lot of AA missile we don’t need any more of those. But these new Russian stuff if god, we could use those. There is only one problem “NO MONEY FOR THAT”.
We could buy more Mig-29’s:biggrin1: !!!

tantor

02-26-2007, 11:18 AM

In 1999 Serbian Mig-29 fleet needed modernization badly!
Years of sanctions and wars did it’s to Migs and then they have to engage F-16 LOL:worried2: .
Serbia has lot of AA missile we don’t need any more of those. But these new Russian stuff if god, we could use those. There is only one problem “NO MONEY FOR THAT”.
We could buy more Mig-29’s:biggrin1: !!!

yea,last visit of USAF was on 23.06.2006. on batajnica airbase

skampa

02-28-2007, 12:08 AM

"Don’t forget 1389 Battle for Kosovo.
Don’t forget 1912 Kumanovo battle, revenge for Kosovo.
Don’t forger 1999 Battle for Kosovo II
Don’t forget we’ll revenge it again."
More like all your neighbours are going to get vengeance on you for all your war crimes. You better watch out you don’t have one ally that is willing to help you. And why does your timeline not go before the 10th century or is that because the slavs stole their land from the Illyrians.

tantor

02-28-2007, 02:03 PM

``More like all your neighbours are going to get vengeance on you for all your war crimes. You better watch out you don’t have one ally that is willing to help you. And why does your timeline not go before the 10th century or is that because the slavs stole their land from the Illyrians.``
...........................................
yea, before Illirians were not people on earth...........

skampa

02-28-2007, 02:40 PM

dahbu

03-03-2007, 04:51 PM

Does anyone have information on Yugo helos shooting down NATO UAV's?

spirit

03-10-2007, 05:48 AM

spirit

03-15-2007, 06:07 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/3522860.stm

serb08

03-16-2007, 07:41 AM

Sarajevo071

03-16-2007, 10:42 AM

By end 1980's YUGOSLAVIA was on market for new planes and chopers… In game was Mirage 2000 Vs. MIG 29, and on other side was Puma Vs. Mil-24… Decision for Russian planes and choper was made because MONEY, POLITICAL reasons and FAMILIARITY of pilots and land crews with Russian technology! Main reason for buying better planes was Bulgaria… They used to fly in, circle half way before Yugoslavian (old) Mig’s would get up and chase them out. So decision to stop they intimidations was made and Mig’s 29 and Mil-24 was pick.

gmi serbia

03-20-2007, 05:02 PM

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=5768

gmi serbia

03-20-2007, 05:08 PM

Does anyone have information on Yugo helos shooting down NATO UAV's?

NATO aircraft losses - summary

These are official figures released by Yugoslav command regarding NATO losses. RV & PVO information was released by Yugoslav command (by General Dragoljub Ojdanic, Chief of General Staff of FRY Army) on June 15, 1999, so it's the most recent information available. But again these numbers include only RV & PVO kills (Air Force and Air Defenses). Information about FRY Navy kills was released by FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec, on 06-10-99. And the information about NATO aircraft downed by the Third Army was released by the Third Army Commander, General Nebojsa Pavkovic, on 06-12-99. Information about NATO aircraft downed by the 2nd Army was released by Major General Spasoje Smiljanic in his interview to Politika newspaper at the end of April. Information regarding aircraft shot down by the 1st Army was provided by General Ninoslav Krstic in his interview for the "Vojska" magazine on May 24, 1999.
• RV i PVO & other air defenses: 61 planes, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and 238 cruise missiles
o 3rd Army: 34 planes, 5 helicopters, 25 UAVs and 52 cruise missiles
o Navy: 3 planes, 3 UAVs and over 5 cruise missiles
o 2nd Army: 24 planes, 2 helicopters, 2 UAVs, 30 cruise missiles
o 1st Army: 6 planes, 129 cruise missiles
Total: 61 aircraft, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and over 238 cruise missiles. These numbers include only those NATO aircraft that crashed in Yugoslavia. For a detailed review click .

TOMMYJO

03-20-2007, 06:30 PM

NATO aircraft losses - summary

These are official figures released by Yugoslav command regarding NATO losses. RV & PVO information was released by Yugoslav command (by General Dragoljub Ojdanic, Chief of General Staff of FRY Army) on June 15, 1999, so it's the most recent information available. But again these numbers include only RV & PVO kills (Air Force and Air Defenses). Information about FRY Navy kills was released by FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec, on 06-10-99. And the information about NATO aircraft downed by the Third Army was released by the Third Army Commander, General Nebojsa Pavkovic, on 06-12-99. Information about NATO aircraft downed by the 2nd Army was released by Major General Spasoje Smiljanic in his interview to Politika newspaper at the end of April. Information regarding aircraft shot down by the 1st Army was provided by General Ninoslav Krstic in his interview for the "Vojska" magazine on May 24, 1999.
• RV i PVO & other air defenses: 61 planes, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and 238 cruise missiles
o 3rd Army: 34 planes, 5 helicopters, 25 UAVs and 52 cruise missiles
o Navy: 3 planes, 3 UAVs and over 5 cruise missiles
o 2nd Army: 24 planes, 2 helicopters, 2 UAVs, 30 cruise missiles
o 1st Army: 6 planes, 129 cruise missiles
Total: 61 aircraft, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and over 238 cruise missiles. These numbers include only those NATO aircraft that crashed in Yugoslavia. For a detailed review click .

And would you like to detail all those manned aircraft that crashed in Yugoslavia? All those aircraft inside Yugoslavia and the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum has how many pieces on display? No NATO pilots captured, none killed, none repatriated via the Red Cross.

What you are detailing is reports from the conflict in 1999. After the conflict the grim reality donned on most Yugoslavs that they were being lied to. The Yugoslav Ministry of Information went straight for feeding the populace fantastic war stories. All good for the populace during conflict, but you still seem to believe it?

After the conflict many of the Yugoslav populace were shocked by the revelation of Bojan Bugarcic. Bugarcic, was the Senior Advisor on International Affairs to Yugoslav President Milosevic)

"He [Bugarcic] said that, throughout the war, a tremendous, and
extremely effective, propaganda campaign had been mounted by the
Serbian military. The aim was to keep the populace believing their
forces were mounting a spirited defence.

"Using the state broadcaster, unofficial 'Russian intelligence' web
pages and Army communiqués, the deception had been so successful that
many people were fooled. My 22-year-old translator, Vlada Kopric, was
one example. While he vehemently denounced the government-controlled
RTS media network as spouting 'pure lies,' his explorations on the
Internet had led him to the bogus Russian intelligence site. As a
result, up until my November interview with Bugarcic, Vlada had truly
believed that the Serbian military had successfully shot down 78 NATO
aircraft. "He was devestated when he learned the truth."

The claims went into the extremes as various individuals and groups jumped on the band wagon. You will still see claims of missing B-2, B-52s and even Luftwaffe F-4 Phantoms. (No F-4s took part in any combat). They all still exist today on the Internet.

Even the Yugoslav commander who shot down the F-117 admits that the only manned aircraft shot down were kills by his unit the 250th Rocket Brigade. One an F-16CG and the other the F-117A.

spirit

03-21-2007, 04:14 PM

Interesting stuff

gmi serbia

03-23-2007, 03:18 PM

And would you like to detail all those manned aircraft that crashed in Yugoslavia? All those aircraft inside Yugoslavia and the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum has how many pieces on display? No NATO pilots captured, none killed, none repatriated via the Red Cross.

What you are detailing is reports from the conflict in 1999. After the conflict the grim reality donned on most Yugoslavs that they were being lied to. The Yugoslav Ministry of Information went straight for feeding the populace fantastic war stories. All good for the populace during conflict, but you still seem to believe it?

After the conflict many of the Yugoslav populace were shocked by the revelation of Bojan Bugarcic. Bugarcic, was the Senior Advisor on International Affairs to Yugoslav President Milosevic)

"He said that, throughout the war, a tremendous, and
extremely effective, propaganda campaign had been mounted by the
Serbian military. The aim was to keep the populace believing their
forces were mounting a spirited defence.

"Using the state broadcaster, unofficial 'Russian intelligence' web
pages and Army communiqués, the deception had been so successful that
many people were fooled. My 22-year-old translator, Vlada Kopric, was
one example. While he vehemently denounced the government-controlled
RTS media network as spouting 'pure lies,' his explorations on the
Internet had led him to the bogus Russian intelligence site. As a
result, up until my November interview with Bugarcic, Vlada had truly
believed that the Serbian military had successfully shot down 78 NATO
aircraft. "He was devestated when he learned the truth."

The claims went into the extremes as various individuals and groups jumped on the band wagon. You will still see claims of missing B-2, B-52s and even Luftwaffe F-4 Phantoms. (No F-4s took part in any combat). They all still exist today on the Internet.

Even the Yugoslav commander who shot down the F-117 admits that the only manned aircraft shot down were kills by his unit the 250th Rocket Brigade. One an F-16CG and the other the F-117A.

READ THIS TEXT SLOWLY and you see more...

NATO aircraft losses - summary

These are official figures released by Yugoslav command regarding NATO losses. RV & PVO information was released by Yugoslav command (by General Dragoljub Ojdanic, Chief of General Staff of FRY Army) on June 15, 1999, so it's the most recent information available. But again these numbers include only RV & PVO kills (Air Force and Air Defenses). Information about FRY Navy kills was released by FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec, on 06-10-99. And the information about NATO aircraft downed by the Third Army was released by the Third Army Commander, General Nebojsa Pavkovic, on 06-12-99. Information about NATO aircraft downed by the 2nd Army was released by Major General Spasoje Smiljanic in his interview to Politika newspaper at the end of April. Information regarding aircraft shot down by the 1st Army was provided by General Ninoslav Krstic in his interview for the "Vojska" magazine on May 24, 1999.
• Total RV i PVO & other air defenses: 61 planes, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and 238 cruise missiles
o 3rd Army: 34 planes, 5 helicopters, 25 UAVs and 52 cruise missiles
o Navy: 3 planes, 3 UAVs and over 5 cruise missiles
o 2nd Army: 24 planes, 2 helicopters, 2 UAVs, 30 cruise missiles
o 1st Army: 6 planes, 129 cruise missiles
[B]Total: 61 aircraft, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and over 238 cruise missiles. These numbers include only those NATO aircraft that crashed in Yugoslavia

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 at least one USAF F-16C fighter was lost in air-to-air combat 7km south of Pancevo (map). Serbs said the aircraft was downed by a MiG-29. Four more F-16s were lost due to ground fire in the third wave of attacks. Russian GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate - military intel. service) confirmed that four USAF F-16s were shot down by SAMs and AAAs.
F-16 fighter aircraft experienced significant technical difficulties in 1998-1999 and about 400 such aircraft were grounded by the USAF for safety reasons. It should be fully expected that the F-16s deployed to Italy may develop considerable technical problems during intensive operations against Yugoslavia. This problem will be also augmented by the acute shortage of qualified technical personnel already experienced even before the war. More information here.
April 4 On 04-04-99 a "USAF 31st FW F-16C made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport Bosnia-Herzegovina." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)
April 7 On 04-07-99 one Belgian F-16B two-seat fighter/bomber aircraft (possibly of Belgian 349 Squadron assigned to NATO) was shot down near Novi Sad. Two pilots ejected and were captured: a 42-year-old male pilot and a 28-year-old female co-pilot. The aircraft was shot down by Aleksandar Sunjka using a 20mm anti-aircraft gun. For more info about Belgian F-16s click here.
May 2 According to a statement made by NATO spokesman Jamie Shea on 05-02-99, one American F-16 fighter aircraft made an emergency landing at Sarajevo airport. He did not specify the exact date of the incident. So far, it has only been known that two damaged NATO aircraft landed at Sarajevo: the USAF F-15 on March 25th and a British Harrier on April 19th.
April 19 On 04-19-99 a Danish AF F-16 "made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport, Bosnia-Herzegovina, due to a serious engine problem in the early hours of the morning while flying a combat air patrol mission to protect NATO SFOR troops in Bosnia." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
May 2 A USAF F-16CG fighter aircraft (tail number AV555FS, serial number 88-0550) crashed 18km east of the town of Kozluk, Yugoslavia (according to official NATO report, however, 20km southeast of Sabac according to Yugoslavian reports, map) at 02:20 on 05-02-99. The pilot ejected and NATO reported that he was picked up by NATO rescue forces. Photo from The Times of London here. US Department of Defense news report here. Associated Press report here. Yugoslav sources reported that four NATO rescue helicopters were in the area and exchanged fire with Serbian police. One rescue helicopter was reported down and one more heavily damaged by AAA fire. Some more info here. Take a look at this F-16 (according to USAF) when it was still in one piece. There was an obvious disagreement between the USAF and NATO reports regarding a downing of an F-16 on 05-02-99: USAF and DoD reports identified the lost aircraft as F-16CG, while NATO reports identified the aircraft as F-16CJ. Both models were used extensively during the operation Allied Force. This discrepancy may indicate that that more than one F-16 might have been lost on that date. Adding further confusion, USAF and DoD reports showed that the aircraft crashed near the town of Metic, while official NATO statements place the crash site 18km east of the town of Kozluk, which is some distance away from Metic. Serbian military found and photographed the remains of the F-16CG, tail number AV555FS, near the village of Nakucani, which is quite some distance away from Metic. A report by Associated Press, insists that the aircraft shot down on 05-02-99 was an F-16CJ. The report describes the details of awards given out to several US pilots in connection with the operation Allied Force. Here is an interesting quote from this report: "One of the other Silver Star recipients also was involved in the rescue of a downed U.S. pilot, though in much different circumstances. Kavlick, 32, from Festus, Mo., was flying lead in a group of F-16CJs on a mission to destroy Serb SA-3 and SA-6 surface-to-air missile batteries near the city of Novi Sad on May 2 when his wingman was struck by an SA-3 missile, causing engine failure and forcing the pilot to eject." As you can see, again there is a discrepancy in the type of aircraft shot down. At least now we know that the F-16, whatever model, was brought down by an SA-3 missile and not a technical malfunction as was originally stated by NATO officials.
May 20 An F-16 jet fighter crashed in the village of Gradiste, Croatia 17km southwest of Vinkovci on 05-20-99 at 03:35 local time (map). The incident was observed by a number of local residents, who were woken up by a loud explosion and observed a fireball in the sky and a parachute. The crash site is heavily patrolled by police and several small clashes took place between the police and curious villagers.
May 28 An American F-16 fighter/bomber was shot down over Kosovo on 05-28-99. The aircraft crashed in central Macedonia at 13:45 local time. The pilot of the aircraft was rushed by a rescue helicopter to a hospital in Skopje. The pilot had serious injuries to his head and extremities. Two more wounded American pilots are recovering in the Skopje hospital. An amateur photographer managed to get a shot of the crash site before the remains of the F-16 were retrieved by NATO troops. This incident was reported by Macedonian "Evening News" newspaper. ITAR-TASS report here (in Russian).
July 30, 2000 According to a USAF source, an F-16 fighter was ditched in the Adriatic during the operation "Allied Force." The pilot was rescued. No further information is available. Please e-mail me if you know something about this incident.

March 25 One heavily-damaged USAF F-15 landed at Sarajevo airport on 03-25-99 escorted by another F-15. Photo of a damaged F-15 over Sarajevo from Vojska newspaper. The incident was confirmed by LtCdr Sheena Thomson of SFOR during a joint NATO-SFOR press conference on 03-25-99. You can read the complete transcript of the press conference here.

March 26 One USAF F-15E ground attack/fighter aircraft was downed on 03-26-99 at 17:20 in the village of Donja Trnova, 15km southwest of Bijeljina, Republic of Srpska. Serbs claimed the plane was shot down by a MiG-29 fighter. BBC World News reported the loss on March 27, 1999. More info and a photo here.
March 26 On 03-26-99 USAF F-15E strike fighter of the 48th FW "reported to have run off the runway and been badly damaged while making an emergency landing at Istrana air base, Italy." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)
April 4 On April 4, exactly at 3:27AM one, possibly two USAF F-15 fighter jets were shot down, according to a first-hand report from Sgt. 'Sasa', who participated in the shoot-down. His story: At that time, three combat aircraft were detected flying over their position on Mtn. Ljubic (near Cacak, map). Two were flying very close to each other, while the third was relatively away. Their unit was armed with S-125 Neva SAMs. The order came to launch when the first aircraft was 15km away from their position. At exactly 19km away, it was hit with the first SAM, exploding in the air. Pilot did not eject. The pilot of the other jet ejected at the moment when the first aircraft was hit. They could clearly see the booster blast going vertical for a few moments, and several seconds later both aircraft disappeared from their radar screen. After that shooting, third aircraft, which was always near by, came down and launched its weapons. The Low Blow radar for S-125 was hit (located some 50m away from the launcher), during which Sgt. "Sasa" was seriously wounded while the others sustained only minor injuries. He came out of hospital after the end of the war. They could not confirm the aircraft type while their command says the aircraft were American, most probably F-15s.
April 25 On 04-25-99 a USAF F-15 fighter jet "made emergency landing at Sarajevo Airport, escorted by another F-15, due to a faulty hydraulic pump." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
June 13 One damaged USAF F-15 fighter jet arrived at Aviano airbase, Italy on 06-13-99 at about 20:00 local time. Following landing the aircraft was surrounded by ambulances and fire trucks. Stratfor report here. Eyewitness report here.

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 two F/A-18s were lost 11km south of Ruma (map). Both crews are dead. Several additional Canadian F/A-18s have been dispatched to Italy on 03-30-99.
March 26 At least one German "Tornado IDS" ground attack aircraft was lost sometime between 22:00 03.24.99 and 17:00 03.26.99 (but most likely in the first wave of attacks). This loss was confirmed by Russian military intelligence and Serbs said that they have found the aircraft's crash site. The "Tornado" was shot down 12km south of Pancevo (map) and was completely destroyed. Crew of two is dead. The chairman of NATO's military committee, Gen. Klaus Naumann denied this report.
March 27 Another German "Tornado" was shot down on 03-29-99, as reported by Yugoslav news agency Tanjug. The pilots are said to have ejected. This report may be related to the incident when a German Tornado attack aircraft was shot down and crashed on 03-27-99 around 01:00 in the vicinity of the village Konjevici (Mt. Maljen), near Cacak. The crew of the Tornado ejected and was captured by Serb forces. A detailed account of the incident was published in Vojska magazine (issue 349, 04-04-99, p. 6). You can read the article here (in Serbian).
April 15 One NATO Tornado ground attack aircraft was shot down over Podgorica in the evening hours of 04-15-99. The plane crashed into the Skadarsko lake (map). The plane was shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic using an L70 Bofors anti-aircraft gun.
May 26 A NATO Tornado bomber aircraft was shot down on 05-26-99 at 01:35 over Pozarevac, east of Belgrade (map). The aircraft's fuel tanks fell in the village of Aleksandrovac, and parts of the plane crashed in the municipality of Petrovac na Mlavi area. Pilot ejected. Tanjug report here. Video here. Video caps here. ITAR-TASS report here (in Russian). The aircraft was initially misidentified as Harrier. NATO aircraft over Yugoslavia often drop fuel tanks in an attempt to evade SAMs. Read US News & World Report article here, which describes some of the details of SAM-evasion from a NATO pilot's perspective.
April 15 A French Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft was shot down over Podgorica in the evening hours of 04-15-99. The aircraft crashed into the Rumjie hill (map). The plane was shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic, who on the same day shot down a Tornado ground strike aircraft, using the same L70 Bofors. According to reports, the Mirage was only lightly damaged, but the pilot panicked and ejected. He was captured shortly after.
May 7 Another French Mirage 2000 was downed between 3:43 and 4:30 on May 7, 1999 by a Yugoslav SA-6. The aircraft crashed near Svrljig, about 30 km northeast of Nis (map). The SA-6 SAM system responsible for this kill fired a total of 4 missiles during the war with NATO and downed 2 NATO combat jets. More information here.

March 26 A group of eight British Harrier fighter jets came under heavy AAA fire while on a mission over Yugoslavia on 03-26-99. All of the Harriers are said to have returned to the Gioia del Colle base. However, several aircraft are believed to have been heavily damaged. According the British Ministry of Defence, the Harriers had to turn back to their base before completing their mission.
March 30 According to Yugoslav and Russian press, on 03-30-99 Yugoslav air defense forces shot down one British Harrier fighter aircraft (from those Harriers that operated from a base in Italy).
April 13 A British Harrier fighter aircraft was shot down over Zrenjanin in northern Serbia on 04-13-99 at 21:30. The aircraft was hit by AAA fire, dropped its fuel tanks and later crashed near Tuzla in Bosnia in the village of Osmaci (map). Remains of the fuel tanks of a British Harrier with bullet holes in them were shown on BK television in Yugoslavia.
April 17 Another British Harrier is believed to have been lost over Yugoslavia on 04-17-99. I am still verifying this information and will upload more data as it becomes available.
An audio recording (mp3 format, ~1.6Mb) of a conversation between a NATO combat aircraft pilot and an AWACS controller appeared on the Internet on 04-18-99. From the recording it is clear that a NATO aircraft came under fire and the pilot was forced to eject. Sources in Yugoslav media said that the destroyed aircraft was an F-16 fighter. An opposing theory suggests that the recording was made in 1994, when a British Sea Harrier was shot down over Bosnia. The Harriers were attacking armored vehicles near the town of Gorazde in Bosnia, approximately 50km SE of Sarajevo (map). In support of that theory, one can probably hear the name "Gorazde" on the recording around time index 3:14 from a female AWACS operator and again around time index 4:08. Also, the pilot of the damaged aircraft speaks with British accent. My initial assumption that the aircraft might have been an A-10A Thunderbolt was probably wrong. The aircraft in trouble is most likely a British Harrier.
May 1 According to an official NATO statement, one American USMC AV-8B Harrier crashed in the Adriatic on 05-1-99 while trying to land on a US carrier (USS Theodore Roosevelt) during a "training exercise", pilot was rescued. The US Sixth Fleet command said that the aircraft crashed after losing power 15km east of Brindisi, Italy (one of NATO's airbases is located at Brindisi, map). It is rather strange that a USMC Harrier would be landing on the Roosevelt and it is even more strange that the carrier would be floating around near the shore in shallow waters 15km east of a large ground airbase at Brindisi. What is also interesting is that the USS Nassau and USS Kearsarge amphibious assault ships deployed to the Adriatic, which carry USMC AV-8B Harriers, were nowhere near Brindisi at the time of the crash, but were just off Albanian shore. With this Harrier the number of lost NATO aircraft officially acknowledged by NATO comes to four as of 05-02-99, including the F-117A, an Apache helicopter, and the F-16CG. NATO also acknowledge a loss of four UAVs. Interestingly enough, at about the same time the Harrier was reported to have crashed during a "training exercise", an aircraft was shot down over Belgrade. The plane was hit at low altitude and the two pilots ejected. The incident was witnessed by hundreds of local residents, who observed the scene from their balconies.
May 29 A British Harrier fighter aircraft was shot down on 05-29-99 by a Serbian reservist Milan Galovic, a journalist from Politika magazine, using a Praga AAA. The incident occurred at 02:15 in the western Belgrade and the Harrier crashed near Karakaj in Bosnia after flying for over 100 km (map, map 2). The shoot down was confirmed by local radio amateurs, who were monitoring NATO radio frequencies. The aircraft exploded upon impact and the crash site was immediately surrounded by SFOR troops. A detailed account of the incident was published in the June 11, 1999, issue of REVIJA92 magazine.
March 27 Two F-117A LO light bombers were lost during the third wave of attacks. Pentagon acknowledged the loss of one F-117A, which was shot down by a Yugoslav SAM of undetermined type (possibly SA-6 or SA-3 with optical targeting) and crashed near the village Budjanovci. Pentagon acknowledged the loss of one F-117A (USAF 49th FW / 8th FS F-117A 82-0806/'HO'), which was shot down by a Yugoslav SAM of undetermined type (possibly SA-3 or SA-6) and crashed near the village Budjenovci. From the available footage of the F-117A wreckage it is possible to see bullet holes in the wing of the bomber, probably caused by a 23mm anti-aircraft gun. The damage to the rest of the aircraft seemed severe and looked like it indeed was caused by a SAM. Latest information suggests that the F-117 was shot down by an SA-3 surface-to-air missile with optical guidance. Pentagon officially confirmed that the F-117A was tracked by an enemy radar and that two SAMs were launched at the aircraft. In an interview with Associated Press on November 24, 1999, retired USAF Gen. Richard Hawley, formerly the head of Air Combat Command at Langley AFB in Virginia, talked about the loss of the F-117A 82-0806 during the Kosovo conflict. Gen. Hawley said that prior to the aircraft's departure from Aviano there "was a better that 50 / 50 chance it would be shot down. Those are unacceptable odds." After retiring from the USAF on June 11, 1999, Hawley blamed US field commander and other military planners for not correctly understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the aircraft. Hawley said "They put the 117 into a situation it wasn't designed to handle, so we lost the airplane, and I attribute it as much to a breakdown in our mission planning as to anything else... It encountered defenses we knew it was not designed to handle and it didn't need to get put into that situation." The USAF investigated the loss of the F-117A, however, keeps its findings classified.
The downing of the second F-117A was reported by the Russian National News Service in their March 27, 1999 special report. In regard to the first F-117A shot down, witnesses say that the aircraft was taken out by a SAM. From the available footage of the F-117A wreckage it is possible to see bullet holes in the wing of the bomber, probably caused by a 23mm anti-aircraft gun. The damage to the rest of the aircraft seemed severe and looked like it indeed was caused by a SAM. Pentagon officially confirmed that the F-117A was tracked by an enemy radar and that two SAMs were launched at the aircraft.
More information on the downing of the first F-117A here.
New photos of the shot down F-117A here. A video here (3,551Kb, mpeg)
I've seen the Le Parisien's photo of a downed "F-117", as was reported in their 03-29-99 issue. Evidently the newspaper was wrong and the photographed plane is not the Night Hawk but a MiG-29. Perhaps one of the two Fulcrums downed by NATO over Bosnia.
BBC mentioned a possibility of a second F-117 loss.
April 1 Radio-Zagreb, Yugoslav TV and other sources reported that a US F-117A stealth bomber had to make an emergency landing in Zagreb Airport. Apparently the aircraft sustained heavy damage from Yugoslav air defenses. I have strong reasons to believe that this report was not an April Fool's joke, despite of Croatian Radio 101 tying to present it that way (and being suspiciously persistent at that). Several articles appeared recently in in US press that speculate that a Czech-made Tamara anti-stealth radar may have been transferred to Yugoslavia and now is being used against American stealth aircraft.
April 6 According to the Serbian television report from 04-06-99, a NATO aircraft (presumably another F-117) was shot down early Tuesday morning (04-06-99) in the hilly area of Fruska Gora, 100 km (60 miles) northwest of Belgrade, after NATO aircraft bombed a refinery in the nearby city of Novi Sad. Related Reuters report here. This was one of two NATO aircraft shot down over Yugoslavia on 04-06-99. The second unidentified jet was downed near Novi Sad after it bombed a bridge over Danube. The pilot is believed to have ejected.
April 21 April 21 An F-117A 86-0837/'OT' of the USAF 422nd TES "suffered extensive damage in an unspecified landing accident, details unconfirmed, but reported as a Class A accident." (source: Air Forces Monthly, August 1999, p. 74) "Class A" accident normally means that the plane was totaled or came very near.
April 30 An F-117A of the 49th FW was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM, "...causing loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany." (source: Air Force Monthly, July 1999, p. 75)
April 5, 2000 The ITAR-TASS news agency published a report based on the information provided by the GRU - Russian army's intelligence service. The report indicates that NATO lost three F-117A tactical stealth bombers and at least 40 other planes and over 1000 missiles.
July 30, 2000 According to a Pentagon source, one of the F-117As damaged during the operation "Allied Force" was scrapped. Available information suggests that this might have been the F-117A of the 49th FW that was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM on April 30. The missile strike caused loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany. Alternatively, this could have been the F-117A 86-0837/'OT' of the USAF 422nd TES, which suffered extensive damage in an unspecified "Class A" landing accident. I am trying to establish the serial number of the F-117A recently written-off by the USAF. If you have any information regarding this, please e-mail me.

April 15 According to the radio Belgrade and radio "Voice of Russia" reports, an A-10 attack aircraft crashed in Skopje around 04-15-99 (map).
April 16 On 04-16-99 a USAF 52nd FW/ 81st FS A-10A 81-0984/'SP' "suffered oil pressure failure and diverted to Petrovac Airport, Skopje, Macedonia, for an emergency landing." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)

The OA-10A 81-0967 at Petrovec airbase following repairs
May 2 At 18:00 on 05-02-99 TV Sitel in Skopje, Macedonia reported that a heavily-damaged OA-10A Thunderbolt 81-0967 (construction number A10-0662) of the 23rd Wing, 74th Fighter Squadron, crash-landed near Skopje, not far from the Petrovec airport, used by NATO for emergency landings and rescue operations (map). Pentagon reports indicate that the aircraft was hit by an SA-7 man-portable SAM in the starboard engine. Many eye witnesses in Skopje reported that the aircraft appeared to have serious damage to one of its engines (right engine relative to the pilot) and a wing.
Several missiles were still attached to the underwing pylons, creating a danger of explosion and a panic among local residents. Some 40 minutes after the crash, the aircraft was towed by a NATO vehicle to the Petrovec airport. Photo here. A larger version of the same photo here. ABC News reported on 05-03-99: "NATO military spokesman General Walter Jertz said NATO encountered increased resistance by Serb anti-aircraft defences and one alliance plane, a U.S. A-10 Thunderbolt, had been hit and damaged but had landed safely in Skopje, Macedonia." Serbian television showed the remains of an A-10A Thunderbolt on 05-04-99. The video was shot on 05-02-99 and showed one of the aircraft's engines, which was directly hit by a missile, and other parts, including a plate with the plane's make (A-10A), serial number on the engine cover (A 40662, which is the construction number for the OA-10A 81-0967) and code number (77751). The ITAR-TASS report here. Video here. Photos. Reuters report here.
Early available information indicated that the aircraft was flown by Capt. Chris Short, who's A/OA-10A was confirmed to have been damaged. However, now it is know that Capt. Short's aircraft was damaged during a combat mission on May 11 (see next entry). The name of the pilot who flew the OA-10A 81-0967 is not known. Following the crash landing of the 81-0967 Macedonian TV reported that the pilot of the aircraft was injured. Eyewitness reports I have (from members of the Pristina air defense unit) of the incident involving the 81-0967 over Kosovo indicate that two A-10s were involved, one of which was shot down. Earlier it was believed that the aircraft parts shown on Serbian TV belonged to the downed A-10. However, the aircraft's construction number visible on the engine nacelle indicates that it belongs to the A-10 that landed in Macedonia.

May 11 On May 11, 1999, an OA-10A serial number 81-0984 piloted by Capt. Chris Short landed at the Gioia del Colle airbase in Italy with damage to the underside of the aircraft. The damage is believed to have been caused by a nearby explosion of an SA-13 SAM. It is known that the same aircraft was suffered oil pressure problems and was diverted to the Petrovec base in Macedonia for repair on April 16, 1999. RAF yearbook (p. 46) details Capt. Short's encounter with the SAM:
'Amongst the many encounters by the 81st FS was one on 11 May, when a pair of OA-10s were performing an airborne FAC mission over eastern Kosovo. Pilots Capt. Chris Short, and his wingman Col. Greg Sanders, entered their designated box area from the south and were notified by an E-3 to search for a possible Serbian helicopter. After 15 minutes of fruitless search, they discovered a possible tank revetment south of Pristina airfield. A Maverick missile was fired at the site, although it was not possible to determine if the tank had been successfully hit. The pilots radioed the position of the tank revetment to another FAC team, and departed the area. The A-10s then flew to another location, where earlier in the day two camouflaged APCs had been reported. Two vehicles were detected, but due to low fuel reserves, the pilots were only able to perform two attacks. Capt. Short rolled his A-10 towards the vehicle and fired a Maverick, scoring a direct hit. The second aircraft aimed for the other vehicle, and also fired a Maverick which missed its target. The two aircraft then climbed to altitude to return to the tanker before continuing their patrol. While in the climb, Capt. Short experienced a 'thump' on the underside of the fuselage behind the seat. As a defensive measure both aircraft ejected self protection flares. Neither Col. Sanders or Capt. Short could find any damage to their aircraft, so the two pilots resumed their flight after refuelling from the tanker. The two aircraft completed their mission, which included delivering Mk82 bombs onto a Serb target in Kosovo. The aircraft then returned to Gioia del Colle. It was only after taxing into the de-arming area that personnel noticed damaged to the underside of the A-10. The FM antenna had been torn away, and there was a large dent on the underside and a black scorch mark. A SAM is believed to have exploded nearby, with Capt. Short having a lucky escape'
May 24 An American A-10A Thunderbolt ground attack aircraft was shot down near Klina (Glinan), Kosovo, about 46km to the west of Pristina, on 05-22-99 (map). The incident was reported by Tanjug news agency. ITAR-TASS report here.

June 11 An RAF C-130K Hercules C.1 XV 298 transport aircraft from RAF Lyneham crashed on 06-11-99 in Albanian town of Kukes, while attempting to land on a dirt airstrip built by UAE humanitarian mission in Albania. The aircraft was carrying 12 people and ammunition. It exploded upon impact. According to NATO spokesman, one person on board was injured and hospitalized. AP report here. Reuters report here.
October 25 According to The Sunday Times article, the RAF C-130K Hercules, that crashed in Kukes, Albania on 06-11-99 was used by British SAS troops trying to beat Russian paratroopers to the Slatina airport near Pristina, Kosovo. It was reported that serial numbers on the C-130K were removed.
March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 one Yugoslav MiG-21FK was lost 5km south of Loznica (map). The aircraft was shot down by two F/A-18s at an altitude of 4300m.
March 28 Chief of General Staff of Russian armed forces Gen. A. Kvashnin announced on 03-28-99 that Yugoslavia may have lost up to 4 MiG-21s. Gen. Kvashnin also said that Yugoslavs lost 2-3 MiG-23s (I was not aware that Yugoslavia even had those) and 2-3 MiG-29s. According to the general NATO lost at least 7 aircraft and over 30 cruise missiles were destroyed or damaged and did not hit their targets.
April 18 On 04-18-99 one MiG-21 was damaged and had to make an emergency landing 10km from Ponikve airbase in Yugoslavia, after being hit by a NATO SAM during an attack on Tuzla airport in Bosnia-Herzegovina. More details here.
May 12 A MiG-21 fighter aircraft is believed to have crashed shortly after taking off from Pristina airbase in Kosovo on 05-12-99. NATO radars detected the aircraft taking off, but, according to NATO officials, the MiG-21 was not attacked by any NATO forces an crashed on its own, probably due to a mechanical problem. However, a different story came from OSCE, which stated that this MiG-21 fighter was involved in bombing of KLA troops and crashed in Albanian territory near the village of Padesh. The KLA suffered heavy losses during the battle with Yugoslavian troop on 05-11-99 and the night of 05-12-99. Several MiG-21 aircraft were seen over Albania using cluster bombs against KLA terrorists, who mistakenly assumed that the planes belonged to NATO and did not bother to take cover. The KLA representative said that this MiG-21 was shot down by a NATO plane, but NATO said that it wasn't. Nando Times report here. Evidently, NATO was involved in this incident but is trying to keep the lid on the deteriorating situation in Albania.
May 11 NATO reported that it hit five MiG-21 aircraft on the ground during its attacks on 05-11-99. During a press briefing, NATO's military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Jertz said that two of the MiG-21s were attacked by two F-15E on a highway (!) He did not specify the exact location. According to the general, three more MiG-21s were hit on the ground close to Pristina. Again, no exact location was given. NATO did not provide any images of the supposedly destroyed MiGs. Since the beginning of the campaign, NATO published only one video of an attack on a MiG-21 on 04-16-99. There is a good chance that NATO planes attacked wooden mockups of MiGs or the older MiG-21 models withdrawn from service (more info here), which Yugoslavia uses quite extensively along with very realistic mockups of tanks and SAMs to disperse the efforts of NATO planes and draw them into air defense ambushes. In an official statement from 05-11-99, representative of the Belgian armed forces' general staff, Maj. Gen. Pier Serge (sp?), disagreed with NATO's assessment of the damage it caused to the Yugoslavian armed forces. According to the general, Yugoslavia lost only one-fifth of its MiG-21 fighters, a mere 6% of its tanks deployed in Kosovo, 18% of artillery, and 13% of military vehicles. He also said that only 30% of Yugoslavia's oil and oil product reserves were destroyed, not 80%, as NATO claims, and that many of Yugoslavian oil refineries, hit by NATO planes, continue to operate. ITAR-TASS report here, in Russian.

March 28 Chief of General Staff of Russian armed forces Gen. A. Kvashnin announced on 03-28-99 that Yugoslavia may have lost 2-3 MiG-23s (I was not aware that Yugoslavia even had those, however, some people informed me that Yugoslavia may have 5-10 MiG-23s of Iraqi origin: Iraq sent Yugoslavia several planes of that type prior to the Persian Gulf War and Yugoslavia is using MiG-23s in agreement with Iraq). Gen. Kvashnin also said that Yugoslavs lost up to 4 MiG-21s and 1-2 MiG-29s. According to the general NATO lost at least 7 aircraft and over 30 cruise missiles were destroyed or damaged and did not hit their targets.
March 24 One MiG-29 was shot down in an air-to-air combat on 03-24-99, shortly after taking-off from Batajnica airfield heading north to intercept attacking NATO aircraft. The aircraft was piloted by Major Nebojsa Nikolic (for an interview with Major Nikolic click here). The aircraft crashed in Knicanin, near the town of Titel in the Vojvodina province (see photos of the crash site here). A second MiG-29, from the same airfield, was accidentally damaged by Yugoslavian AAA fire. The plane landed safely.
One damaged MiG-29 was destroyed on the ground at Nis airfield by a NATO bomb. No exact date of the incident is known. There is a good chance that this was a decoy.
March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 one Yugoslav MiG-29 was lost 13km south of Bogatic (map). The aircraft was downed by three F-16s at 7100m - this kill is attributed to a Dutch F-16 fighter (for more details click here). The aircraft was piloted by Major Zoran Radosavljevic. The aircraft possibly crashed in Bosnia near Ugljevik. Photos here.
March 26 On March 26 a MiG-29 piloted by Lt.Col. Slobodan Peric was engaged by two USAF F-15Cs after shooting down a NATO aircraft (possibly an F-15E, see entry above) in the area between Lazarevac and Loznica. The MiG-29 crashed in Bosnia. In confusion, BBC and a number of other western news networks aired a video of what was claimed to be the second MiG-29 crash site in Bosnia. However, the aircraft on the video had inscriptions in English on the fuselage, including an "Annual Inspection" sign, which can be found only on the US aircraft. This aircraft might have been the F-15E shot down by Lt. Col. Peric, just before he himself was shot down by a pair of F-15Cs. More info and a photo here. Several photos of the "first" MiG-29 (piloted by Lt. Col. Peric) shot down over Bosnia were released by NATO.
March 28 Chief of General Staff of Russian armed forces Gen. A. Kvashnin announced on 03-28-99 that Yugoslavia may have lost 2-3 MiG-29s. Gen. Kvashnin also said that Yugoslavs lost 2-3 MiG-23s (I was not aware that Yugoslavia even had those, although now it appears that Yugoslavia used Iraqi MiG-23s transferred to Yugoslavia before the Persian Gulf War for repairs) and up to 4 MiG-21s. According to the general NATO lost at least 7 aircraft and over 30 cruise missiles were destroyed or damaged and did not hit their targets.
May 4 On 05-04-99 NATO claimed to have shot down one Yugoslavian MiG-29 tactical fighter. The aircraft was reportedly shot down by a USAF F-16CJ of the 31st Air Expeditionary Wing's 78th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron in a high-speed air-to-air engagement at an altitude of 4km. USAF report here. According to reliable sources in Yugoslavia, this MiG-29 was piloted by Col. Milenko Pavlovic, commander of the 204th Aviation Regiment. His MiG-29 was shot down on May 4 over Valjevo (map) by Yugoslav SA-6 Kub SAM in an incident of friendly fire and not by the USAF F-16CJ.
Early in the conflict (no exact date is yet known), one J-22 Orao aircraft was shot down while flying anti-cruise missile mission. The aircraft was hit by an AAM in close combat. The Orao was seriously damaged, but instead of ejecting, the pilot directed his plane into a pair of NATO aircraft, directly hitting and destroying one of them.
April 18 On 04-18-99 one J-22 Orao was destroyed by a NATO SAM during an attack on Tuzla airport in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Pilot did not survive. More details here.

April 22 One G-4 ground strike aircraft was destroyed by a NATO bomb during preparations for take-off from Nis airfield approximately on 04-22-99. No exact date of the incident is known.
One Yugoslavian Mi-8 helicopter from Nis airfield was relocated several times from place to place. During the last such relocation the Mi-8 hit a tree with its tail rotor and crashed. No location or exact date of the incident is known.
March 17 On 03-17-99 NATO have released a video (MPEG format, 3,315Kb, full listing of NATO videos here), entitled "HIP Helicopter Pristina Airfield", made by a targeting camera, of what appears (at least to NATO) to be an Mi-8 (NATO: Hip) transport helicopter. This is the first such video released by NATO. Photo here. But what is very interesting, on the video one can clearly see a four-bladed helicopter. All Mi-8s are five-bladed (as you can see from the photo on the left)! The helicopter on the video is most likely an Mi-4 (NATO: Hound) utility/transport helicopter. But there's one more problem: Yugoslavia has no operational Mi-4s (and it doesn't have any four-bladed helicopters that look even remotely like the one in NATO's video). What is even more interesting is that Albania does operate Mi-4s (the Chinese-built Z-5 version) and it is the only country in the region that does. It is known that Albania-based KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) terrorists do use a few transport helicopters, most likely Mi-4s, unofficially provided by Albanian army. On the NATO's video (the portion shown on BBC), the helicopter's blades are turning slowly (it has either just landed or it's taking off. You cannot really see the rotating blades on the on-line video, but it seemed like the blades were turning in the video clip shown on BBC. In any case, this is not essential). It's more than likely that another trigger-happy NATO flyer (like the one, who mistook tractors for tanks) caught this "Serbian" helo in the act and, not having too much time to think, let alone count the blades, blasted the hell out of it. NATO says that the helicopter was sitting on "Pristina Airfield", but look at the photo: since when are they plowing airfields? More "help" like that from NATO and KLA may be tempted to join IRA or Mr. Bin Laden (well, actually, it already has). For more click here.

April 24 On 04-24-99 a US Army AH-64A Apache helicopter "made a precautionary landing in a field at Castiglione della Pescaia on the Italian West coast after departing Pisa Airport, Italy, en route to Brindisi before crossing the Adriatic for deployment to Albania. A warning light indicating an engine problem was the reason for the landing and the helicopter continued with its journey after repairs had been carried out on site." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
April 26 A U.S. Army Apache helicopter crashed near Albania's capital, Tirana, on 04-26-99 and the two pilots were evacuated to the 212th Mobile Army Surgical Hospital at Tirana Airport, as was announced by Pentagon officials. This was a second major accident involving American Apache helicopter in less then a week: only several days earlier another Apache had to make an emergency landing on an Italian airbase after developing mechanical problems. This helicopter had to remain in Italy. More details on the Apache crash here.
April 26 According to different reports, from 11 to 14 Apaches were destroyed on the ground during an attack by Yugoslav Air Force on Rinas airport near Tirana, Albania, on April 26. More information here.
April 25 A U.S. Army Apache helicopter was captured by Yugoslav troops on 04-25-99, while flying a low-level reconnaissance mission. The information I received from reliable private sources in Yugoslavia suggests that the helicopter was ambushed by a group of 30 Yugoslav soldiers armed with Igla man-portable SAMs. The helicopter did not put up any resistance. It landed and the crew surrendered. There certainly is a good reason to suspect that the Apache which crashed during "exercises" and the Apache captured by the Serbs may be the same aircraft. After all, there were only 24 of them in the region, so, if an aircraft was lost to the Serbs, NATO would have had to admit it or to find a plausible explanation for the missing helicopter. What I find remarkable is the fact that both of the pilots not only survived but were reported to be in good condition. This would certainly free NATO from an obligation to inform their families and mention their names, at least in the immediate future. And this would certainly free NATO from dealing with the problem of two "dead" bodies (or two "patients" in a local hospital). A perfect solution: we had an accident, crew is fine - no bodies, no hospitalization. Perhaps NATO would even come up with a photo of the crash site. (Well, what'd you know, they did. But the photos...well, not exactly what I expected.)
May 5 Another American Apache helicopter crashed 75km north of Tirana on 05-05-99 at 01:30 local time. NATO reported the incident, saying that the helicopter crashed in yet another "training exercise" (this is getting ridiculous). The crew of two is dead. Out of the force of 24 Apaches dispatched to Albania, one remained in Italy after catching fire due to a mechanical malfunction and crash-landing on an Italian airbase, another Apache crashed during a "training exercise" of 04-27-99 near Tirana, and one Apache crashed on 05-05-99 also near Tirana and also on a "training mission." They better finish their "training" before they run out of helicopters. ABC News report here. ITAR-TASS report here. A few interesting details: according to the Pentagon officials, this group of (almost) 24 Apaches is the most experienced in the US. This group of pilots had 7-months combat experience in Bosnia. The two pilots who were killed in this latest Apache "accident", were among the most experienced of this group. As of May 5, 1999 the Pentagon officials did not rule out that the crashed might have been caused by hostile fire. The Pentagon officials did say that a loss of two Apaches in such a short period of time is "highly abnormal." Pentagon and NATO are at odds with each other regarding the use of the Apaches. In a few words: Americans are afraid to use them because of the threat of man-portable SAMs and a strong possibility of a massive response by the Yugoslavian troops. NY Times 05-16-99 article here. A 05-23-99 issue of German Weld am Sonntag newspaper quoted a classified NATO report stating that the U.S. Apache helicopter, that crashed in Albania on 05-05-99, was "likely shot down by Serb forces." According to the newspaper, the NATO report came to this conclusion "from the fact that the chopper erupted into a fireball in mid-air before crashing to the ground." Swedish Aftonbladet newspaper also quoted the classified NATO report suggesting that the second Apache, which crashed on 05-05-99, exploded in mid-air, possibly as a result of a SAM impact. Agence France Presse article from 05-22-99 here. A more coherent explanation for the second Apache crash in Albania was leaked by an unnamed Pentagon source, who suggested that the helicopter might have been shot down by a high-power sniper rifle, with which Serb troops are amply equipped. Such a weapon is equipped with capable night vision scope and can be fired in silence from long distance without being detected by the Apaches sensors as a portable SAM launch would be. Here is what The American Spectator magazine writes about the second Apache crash in Albania: "...Moreover, two of the Apaches had crashed on training missions early on, one during a nighttime exercise in the mountains that had left both pilots dead. A German newspaper reported that the chopper had been shot down by Serb rocket fire, a claim vigorously denied by the Pentagon. The official line was that the crash was still under investigation, and of the dozen or so pilots I spoke with only one consented to talk about the accident. He said he had been in the air that night on the same exercise and that the crash was "unexplainable." He said none of the pilots had any radar indication of hostile fire below, nor did the chopper appear to clip a wire or hit any other obstacle. "It just flew over a mountain," he said, "and exploded. We knew right away--no way those guys could have come out alive." Whatever happened, the incident had understandably set a sour mood around the camp for a time, I suppose particularly--though no pilot ever said so directly--because everyone knew they weren't there for battle in the first place." (source: The American Spectator, August 1999, Vol. 32 No. 8, Pg. 32). For the complete article click here.
Although the Apaches in Albania were never officially used in combat, Yugoslav military sources report that two AH-64s were shot down while escorting search-and-rescue teams over Kosovo. No exact dates or locations of these two incidents are known.
After going through all the trouble of getting those Apaches to Albania and preparing the crews, after all the publicity and embarrassment over the a month-long "rapid deployment" and the loss of two helicopters in less than a week, the Pentagon decided to commit only eight Apaches to the peacekeeping mission in Kosovo. Do the math: 24 Apaches, minus 2 "training" accidents," minus at least 11 Apaches destroyed or damaged helicopters at Rinas, minus 2 shot down during SAR missions, minus 1 captured Apache comes out to be 8, or exactly the number of Apaches the Pentagon so generously committed to Kosovo operations.
March 27 An SFOR helicopter crashed with on 03-27-99 around 03:20 in the area between Vrutak and Kremna, near Uzice. The helicopter exchanged fire with a Yugoslavian infantry unit and was shot down by a Strela-2M man-portable SAM. All 22 people onboard are dead.
March 28 One HH-60G Black Hawk carrying 2 pilots and 12 troops was shot down in the early morning of March 28, 1999. The helicopter came down in Bosnian Serb territory between the towns of Bijeljina and Tuzla, near the Serbian border (map). The crashed helicopter was quickly reached by NATO-led SFOR troops and local journalists were kept away. It is believed that the helicopter was operated by SFOR troops and not by a NATO special rescue unit. Reported by Tanjug, Yugoslav news agency. Russian ITAR-TASS news agency reported on 03-28-99 that this helicopter crash might have been related to another crash of a NATO aircraft.
March 29 On 03-29-99 Yugoslav and Russian news agencies reported two more NATO rescue helicopters down, possibly also HH-60Gs. For those of you who may be surprised what a troop-transporting helicopter would be doing over Serbia: the HH-60G is operated by US combat rescue units, whose heavy presence over Serbia is caused by the increasing number of downed NATO aircraft. It is known that this helicopter was shot down not far from a crash site of unidentified NATO jet aircraft downed just minutes earlier. Perhaps this was the aircraft remains of which were shown on Serb TV on 03-30-99 and reported by Russian ITAR-TASS news agency. It is said that the plane was a bomber.
The report of a rescue helicopter crash on 03-28-99 have been indirectly confirmed by a Greek newspaper Athinaiki, which in its 04-03-99 issue reported that 12 bodies of American servicemen were delivered from Macedonia to 424th General Army Hospital in Thessalonica on 03-31-99 and later shipped to the US (a high-ranking source in the hospital privately denied this report, but there was no official response from the hospital's administration, which by itself is very revealing). Seven more bodies of American soldiers were delivered also from Macedonia to Greece on 04-01-99. The newspaper reports that the bodies of the dead American servicemen were delivered by American special troops, which were joined by Greek police on the state border. The fact of delivery of 19 bodies of American servicemen to Greece was independently confirmed by Macedonian customs officials. They said that the coffins were delivered in two batches - 12 and later 7 - escorted by American military officers. The bodies are believed to be those of American pilots and members of rescue teams.
According to the latest report by Greek Athinaiki newspaper, NATO lost a total of 88 servicemen in Yugoslavia, of which 44 are Americans, 11 are Germans, 7 are British and 19 are of other nationalities. Athinaiki also believes that NATO lost 32 planes and helicopters in the conflict. NATO casualties reportedly are being transported back to home countries via Greece. It is certainly noteworthy that this independent look on NATO's actual losses in Yugoslavia comes from a country-member of the Alliance. Yugoslav media recently released images of coffins with American servicemen being carried through a border checkpoint in Macedonia.
Another Greek newspaper, Vradini, wrote that during the first 28 days (03-24-99 to 04-21-99) of NATO's aggression against Yugoslavia, NATO lost at least 81 servicemen, most of them were pilots of downed NATO aircraft and members of special rescue forces. According to the newspaper, this number does not include volunteers from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and other countries, who are fighting on the side of KLA terrorists. US military analysts believe that KLA sustained very heavy losses since the beginning of NATO bombing campaign. Numerous reports of many dead NATO servicemen pouring from Macedonia and Greece (NATO member) seem to confirm Yugoslavia's claims of several dozen destroyed NATO aircraft.
Speaking of losses among rescue units, on 05-03-99 Stratfor reported the following: "2150 GMT, 990503 – The U.S. announced on May 3 that it called more than 100 U.S. Air Force (USAF) para-rescue reservists to active duty. The 120 airmen of the 939th Rescue Wing based in Portland, Oregon, join 2,116 reservists called up last week to serve on active duty. U.S. officials said that the activation of the members of the 939th Rescue Wing would increase the U.S. military’s ability to quickly extract downed pilots from hostile environments." Feel free to interpret this any way you like (I guess you know what my interpretation would be.)
April 2 According to Russian Radio and RosBusinessConsulting news agency report on 04-02-99 Yugoslav air defenses shot down one NATO combat jet and two helicopters carrying 58 troops of NATO's special rescue units. The incident occurred 200km to the south-west of Belgrade in the same area where another NATO aircraft was shot down earlier. According to the Russian Radio report all NATO pilots and troops involved in this incident are believed to be dead. There is no information about the types of aircraft shot down. The number of the troops reported to have been on board of the two helicopters (58) suggests a possibility that CH-53/53E (most likely MH-53J operated by USAF in CSAR capacity) heavylift transport/assault helicopters were shot down.
May 26 American SFOR OH-58C Scout Kiowa reconnaissance helicopter crashed on 05-26-99 at 23:20 7km south-east of Brcko in the area of Ristici, Bosnia (map). SFOR, IPTF and LP responded to the scene. Two pilots on board suffered injuries: first pilot suffered minor injuries and was treated at SFOR base in Tuzla; second pilot sustained head and leg injuries and as of 05-27-99 he is still being treated at the Tuzla SFOR base. According to new information, the incident occured on the same day as unidentified Serbian troops fired rocket-propelled grenades at the US Army intelligence headquarter in Brcko. On the same day a Serb pilot ejected over Bosnia, also in the area of Ristici.
April 9, 2001 A NATO Puma helicopter - one of two such aircraft operated by the British KFOR units in Kosovo - has crashed at around 15:45 local time near Kacanik, 30 miles south of Pristina, Kosovo. The incident was confirmed by Maj. Axel Jandesek, a spokesman for the NATO-led Kosovo peacekeeping force. Seven NATO servicemen were aboard the helicopter when it went down near the border between Kosovo and Macedonia. At least one person aboard the helicopter died in the crash. Unnamed NATO officials told Reuters that there is no sign of any hostile action and that the helicopter most likely crashed due to poor weather. Available early reports: 1, 2, 3, 4
About 6 British Puma helicopters were employed during the operation 'Allied Force' against Yugoslavia in 1999. The last incident involving a British KFOR Puma helicopter occured in January of 2001, when one such aircraft landed in Serbia due to navigational problems, as was reported by NATO officials.

Unidentified combat jet aircraft and helicopters

March 29 According to Yugoslav news agency Tanjug, from 03.28.99 - 03.29.99 five NATO fighter/bomber aircraft of unidentified type were downed over Yugoslavia. Two of the aircraft were downed over southern Kosovo - one around Pristina and another over Pastrik. According to Serb troops and police another of five aircraft was downed on the night of 03.28.99 in central Serbia near the town of Gornji Milanovac (map). ITAR-TASS report here. The pilot ejected. The fourth of five aircraft, downed between 03.28.99 - 03.29.99, crashed along with a transport helicopter (see above) in Bosnian territory between the towns of Bijeljina and Tuzla (map). The fifth plane came down in Bosnian Serb territory on Sunday afternoon 40km north-west of Zvornik (map), as was reported by Reuters. Perhaps this was the aircraft remains of which were shown on Serb TV on 03-30-99 and reported by Russian ITAR-TASS news agency. It is said that the plane was a bomber. Chinese Xinhua news agency also reported, based on Yugoslavian media information, that NATO lost four aircraft on 04-26-99.

April 2 According to Russian Radio and RosBusinessConsulting news agency report on 04-02-99 Yugoslav air defenses shot down one NATO combat jet and two helicopters carrying 58 troops of NATO's special rescue units. The incident occurred 200km to the south-west of Belgrade in the same area where another NATO aircraft was shot down earlier. According to the Russian Radio report all NATO pilots and troops involved in this incident are believed to be dead. There is no information about the types of aircraft shot down. The number of the troops reported to have been on board of the two helicopters (58) suggests a possibility that CH-53/53E heavylift transport/assault helicopters were shot down.
April 2 According to the statement by the Chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, by 04-02-99 NATO alliance lost at least 60 aircraft and cruise missile.
April 6 An unidentified NATO jet was downed by Yugoslav AAA fire near Novi Sad on 04-06-99 after it bombed a bridge over Danube (map). The pilot is believed to have ejected. This incident was reported by Yugoslav TV and Russian news agency ITAR-TASS.
April 11 A NATO aircraft (possibly a German Tornado) was shot down over northern Serbia at 00:12 a.m. local time (22:12 GMT) on 04-11-99, Tanjug news agency reported quoting eye witnesses. The witnesses said they saw anti-aircraft fire hit a plane over a village between Sombor and Odzaci in Vojvodina province, about 200 kilometers northwest of Belgrade (map). Xinhua news report here. Latest reports (June 2000) indicate that the aircraft's remains were recovered near Sombor. Pieces of the aircraft were picket up by the troops from the SAM unit that was responsible for downing the plane.
April 13 In the interview with Russia’s military daily Krasnaya Zvezda, or Red Star, Milosevic said Yugoslavia had shot down 36 NATO aircraft and 119 cruise missiles [less then 10% of the total number of cruise missiles launched at Yugoslavia] since the bombing began and accused the alliance of hiding its losses. (04-14-99) Russian ITAR-TASS news agency also reported that NATO lost 36-42 aircraft and 119 cruise missiles by 04-14-99.
April 13 According to unofficial sources in Yugoslav army, an unidentified NATO jet was shot down over Pancevo on 04-13-99.
April 18 On 04-18-99 a group of nine Yugoslavian aircraft attacked an airport in Tuzla, Bosnia-Herzegovina, which NATO aircraft used for emergency landings and rescue operations. As the result, 17 NATO aircraft and 3 helicopters were damaged or destroyed. One Yugoslavian J-22 Orao strike aircraft was lost to a SAM (pilot did not survive) and one MiG-21 fighter was damaged, also by a SAM, and had to crash-land (pilot survived and aircraft is mainly in-tact). More details here.
April 19 During an intensive air attack on Pristina on 04-19-99 NATO lost three aircraft, one of which is believed to have crashed into Cicavica mountain after being hit by a SAM about 7pm local time. All three aircraft were brought down over or near Pristina, as reported by the Yugoslav Army Pristina Corps anti-aircraft defenses. ITAR-TASS report here.
April 19 A NATO aircraft crashed into the Sara mountain in Macedonia on 04-19-99 at 10:30am local time, as reported by local residents. According to witness reports, the aircraft came from the direction of Kosovo and the crash site was quickly surrounded by NATO troops. This incident was reported by WAY news web site.
April 20 According to Yugoslav Tanjug and Russian ITAR-TASS news agencies, a NATO jet aircraft was shot down near village Jastrebac on 04-20-99 around 12 midnight local time (map). The loss was reported on BBC World news (04-19-99, 7:30pm US EST). ITAR-TASS report here.
April 24 ITAR-TASS' military information database "Vega" reported a loss of three NATO aircraft over Yugoslavia on 04-24-99. All three aircraft were shot down during an attack on the capital of Kosovo, Pristina. One of the three aircraft crashed near village of Businje (map). The other two aircraft crashed to the south and south-west from Pristina. There is no information about the pilots of the three aircraft. ITAR-TASS report here.
April 28 In an interview with Yugoslav TV on 04-28-99, Yugoslav Col. General Dragoljub Ojdanic announced that to this date NATO lost 46 combat planes, 6 helicopters, 8 UAVs, and 182 cruise missiles. According to an official announcement of the Yugoslav Army Supreme Command Headquarters Information Service, these are only those NATO aircraft that fell in Yugoslav territory. April 29th interview with Col. Gen. Ojdanic from Politika newspaper here (in Serbian) and here (in English). You can also read an official statement in English made by the Major General Spasoje Smiljanic, commander of the YA Air Force and Air Defence (Second Army). He mentions NATO losses suffered from air defenses of the Second Army.
April 28 Two unidentified NATO aircraft crashed on 04-28-99 in Macedonia after being hit by Yugoslav AAA fire. One of the aircraft crashed in western Macedonia after exploding in flight. Another aircraft crashed in a Macedonian village near the border with Yugoslavia. The latter incident was observed by numerous eye witnesses. The incident was reported by a radio station in Pristina and Tanjug news agency. Chinese Xinhua news agency report here.
May 4 An unidentified NATO aircraft was shot down on 05-04-99 at midnight during a bombing raid against a Serbian town of Bajina Basta, situated near the border with Bosnia-Herzegovina (map). This was one of two NATO planes shot down over Yugoslavia on that date. The incident was reported by Tanjug news agency and by Russian ITAR-TASS news agency. ITAR-TASS report here.
May 4 Another NATO jet aircraft was shot down by Yugoslavian air defenses near the town of Valjevo (map) during a daylight bombing raid on the Krusik factory located in this town on 05-04-99 after 12:00 local time. This was the second attack against this factory. ITAR-TASS report here.
May 11 A NATO jet aircraft was shot down near Gruza in central Serbia on 05-11-99 at about 12:40 local time. Numerous witnesses reported that the pilot ejected and the plane crashed on the slopes of Mount Gledijske, between the villages of Cestin, Bajcetina, and Sibnica (map). Reuters report here. By today (05-11-99) NATO lost 10% of its engaged manned combat aircraft, which amounts to 70 planes and helicopters, Yugoslavian news agency Tanjug reports.
May 15 A NATO plane of unidentified type was shot down over Padinska Skela, on the northern outskirts of Belgrade on 05-15-99 at around 1115 GMT (map). The incident was confirmed by numerous eye witnesses.
May 16 A NATO officer landed with a parachute 400 meters from the Macedonian village of Izvor (21km from the town of Titov Veles) on 05-16-99 (map). Local farmers tried to approach the man, but he ran away to nearby woods. The man was picked up by two rescue helicopters 15 minutes later. According to many eye witnesses, the parachutist was wearing an unusual "orange uniform," perhaps a rescue vest, which may link him with reports of an AWACS aircraft crash site being discovered in Macedonia on the same day. The incident was reported by numerous sources in Macedonia, including Dnevnik daily (05-18-99), TV A1 (05-17-99). The incident was also confirmed by Macedonian police officials and by a local NATO spokesman. No further details were disclosed.
May 23 An unidentified NATO aircraft was damaged by AAA fire over Leskovac on 05-23-99 around 14:30 (map). Eyewitnesses saw the aircraft leaving in the direction of Bulgaria, trailing thick black smoke from its fuselage. Tanjug report here.
June 2 According to numerous media sources, an unidentified NATO combat jet was shot down over Drazevac (map) around 06-02-99 by Yugoslav air defenses. The aircraft crashed in Pancevo. Yugoslav troops were searching for the pilot of the aircraft, who was reported to have ejected. The incident was reported by Xinhua news agency, Belgrade Radio, Croatian Radio and Television, and other sources.
June 10 FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec, announced on 06-10-99 that Navy Air Defense has downed 3 manned combat planes, 3 UAVs and several missiles during the war. It is know that one of the mentioned UAVs, an American Hunter, was shot down by FRY Navy air defenses over Boka Kotorska bay on 05-28-99 at 09:15. Video caps here. General Nebojsa Pavkovic, commander of Yugoslavia's third army responsible for military operations in Kosovo province, announced on 06-12-99 that during the conflict the 3rd Army air defenses downed 34 manned NATO aircraft and five helicopters.
June 15 General Dragoljub Ojdanic, FRY Army Chief of General Staff, announced on 06-15-99 that Combat Air Force and Air Defense units downed 61 NATO airplane, 30 unmanned aircraft, 7 helicopters and 238 cruise missiles. This number does not include NATO aircraft shot down by FRY Navy, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd armies.
September 2 New reports appear from radio amateurs who were eavesdropping on NATO frequencies during the operation Allied Force. Thus, according to Steve Douglas, a radio enthusiast from Ben Hur, Texas, some available recordings of NATO radio communications suggest that 22 fixed wing aircraft might have been lost during the war, ten of which were American. Read this interesting September 1999 report from the "Truth in Media" newsletter. I am extremely interested in locating people who may have recordings of NATO radio communications made during the period of the Allied Force, especially those directly related to aerial operations. If you have access to such information or know somebody who does, please contact me.

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 two NATO UAVs of unidentified type were downed: one - 12km south of Bogatic (map); another - 4km south of Orahovac (map), at 2600m and 4200m, respectively.
March 29 As of 03-29-99 a total of three NATO UAVs were shot down over Yugoslavia. The two UAVs mentioned above and one more was shot down on Sunday, possibly near the village of Gakovo (map). This was reported by the Voice of Russia radio station based on the information provided by the Yugoslav and Russian Ministries of Defense.
According to Russian Ministry of Defense, Americans have delivered several Hunter reconnaissance UAVs to the Balkans. Ministry's officials say that this is an indication of significant losses among NATO's UAVs and human fire correctors on the ground in Kosovo. Yugoslav security forces detained over a dozen of NATO fire correctors in Kosovo in the last two days alone. All of the detained infiltrators possessed automatic laser target designators and communications equipment.
April 7 According to Yugoslav sources, one American Hunter UAV was shot down on 04-07-99 near Pristina before midnight (map). Pentagon officially confirmed the loss of this aircraft. Related AP article here. Photos here.
April 12-14 According to the German Defense Ministry spokesman, two German reconnaissance UAVs (CL-289 drones) were lost between 04-12-99 and 04-14-99. Military experts in Bonn believe that the aircraft are in the hands of Serb troops. These types of UAVs used by German forces carried out a total of 80 reconnaissance flights over Yugoslavia and each cost 2 million marks to produce. Reuters report here. One of these CL-289s crashed on 04-12-99 over Kosovo. Two CL-289s were downed on 04-14-99 in the morning hours near Kosovo Polje (map; photos). And a fourth CL-289 was downed on the morning of 04-19-99 near the village of Jegunovce, Macedonia (on the border with Yugoslavia).
April 15 Germany lost another UAV on 04-15-99. According to the German Federal Ministry of Defense official, Peter Wichert, this was the thirst German UAV loss in the past 24 hours, causing a temporary halt in German UAV flights over Yugoslavia. Berliner Morgenpost report here. ITAR-TASS report here.
April 18 According to Air Forces Monthly magazine (July 7, 1999, p. 75), one American RQ-1A Predator UAV from the 57th Wing / 11th RS crashed in Yugoslavia on 04-18-99. According to the spokesman for SHAPE, the UAV apparently crashed during an approach to Tuzla airfield in Bosnia. Astra Tech, Defense News article here.
April 18 One Predator UAV was shot down near the town of Sonta on 04-18-99 (map).
April 30 As of 04-30-99 Yugoslavia claimed to have shot down four German CL-289 drones (see some photos here), one Hunter, two Predators, and at least one other UAV of undetermined type. Yugoslavian military officials said that 8 NATO UAVs crashed in Yugoslavian territory as of April 29th. Several more UAVs are believed to have crashed outside of Yugoslavia, in particular, one Predator UAV crashed on 04-18-99 while trying to land at Tuzla airport in Bosnia (map).
For a detailed overview map of destroyed UAVs click here. The map includes information about eight lost UAVs by 04-30-99.
May 13 Two NATO UAVs were shot down over Yugoslavia on 05-13-99. The first UAV, a German CL-289, was lost over Klokot Banja in Kosovska Vitina district at noon local time (photos here). Serbian TV showed the remains of the aircraft. Tanjug report here. NATO has officially acknowledged this loss. Another UAV was shot down over the village of Biba, near the town of Urosevac close to midnight (map). The UAV was shown on Serbian TV in the process of being shot down. The two lost UAVs were reported in the July 1999 issue of Air Forces Monthly magazine (p. 76): "May 13. NATO confirmed that it had lost two unspecified UAVs over Kosovo today and said the cause was still being investigated. Local source said one has been shot down near Pristina at 1000hrs GMT." According to western military experts, NATO is still having serious problems with establishing real-time surveillance over target areas in Yugoslavia, which is essential for targeting mobile military assets, such as military trucks, tanks, SAMs, AAAs, etc. A loss of two spy UAVs in one day is clearly a serious blow to the reconnaissance capability of NATO, which was already experiencing acute shortage of advanced UAVs.
May 14 One NATO UAV, the Predator (57th Reconnaissance Wing, 15th Squadron), was shot down and crashed into Mt. Mokra Gora, Kosovo, around 05-14-99. The loss of the Predator was confirmed by USAF Maj. Gen. Charles Wald, who also said that a French UAV (a CL-289) was also lost on the same day (05-14-99). Jane's reported: "...the French Army said that it had lost a CL-289 UAV over Kosovo on 13 May, the first actual French loss reported since the start of NATO strikes against Yugoslavia." Complete Jane's article here. Several different types of UAVs are in service with the France's armed forces, for a list of some of them click here. France operates the Canadian-made CL-289 UAV over Yugoslavia, also operated by Germany. One of the French CL-289s was also shot down earlier in the war. The mangled remains of the Predator were shown on Serbian TV. Tanjug report here. This report also mentions the two UAVs discussed above. ITAR-TASS report here.
May 16 A German UAV (another CL-289) was shot down over Kosovo on 05-16-99. The remains of the UAV were shown on Serbian TV. Video caps here. The loss was confirmed on 05-17-99 by German military officials. General Hartmut Moede said it is not known at this time if the UAV was shot down, or if it experienced mechanical problems. "Mechanical problems" were experienced by at least six German CL-289 UAVs since the beginning of the war. However, Germany admitted losing only four UAVs. On 05-19-99 Germany announced about its decision to halt flights of its reconnaissance UAVs over Yugoslavia. Luftwaffe's official representatives announced that the decision was caused by a recent loss of several UAVs.
May 20 Two NATO UAVs were shot down over Yugoslavia on 05-20-99. One of the aircraft (Predator UAV, serial number AF 95 021, 57th Wing) crashed in the village of Talinovci, near the Pristina-Urosevac road at around 4.45 p.m and another one - in the very center of Urosevac at around 6.40 p.m. (map). The two incidents were reported by Tanjug and Kosovo-Metohija Information Centre. The remains of the Predator were shown on Serbian TV. Screen caps here. Chicago Saun Times article here. AP report here. According to official Bundeswehr sources, the second UAV lost on 05-20-99 was a German drone. No model was specified, but it would be safe to assume that it was another CL-289 turbojet drone. During a 05-22-99 press-conference Bundeswehr's official spokesman, Dr. Wichert, stated: "...we will continue trying to determine the cause of the Thursday [05-20-99] loss of a drone. Yesterday, three successful UAV flights took place and the flights continue, with one more successful flight today. There will be further flights." Read the whole Bundeswehr press-conference from 05-22-99 here. The loss of the fifth German UAV was first mentioned during the 05-21-99 Bundeswehr press-conference (here).
May 20 Yet another NATO UAV was shot down on 05-20-99 near Slatina airport, approximately 9.6km southwest of Pristina at 1310 GMT (map). This is the third UAV to crash in Yugoslavia in the past 22 hours.
May 21 A NATO Hunter UAV was shot down over Buca, Kosovo on 05-21-99 at 0625 GMT (map). The incident was reported by Tanjug news agency and by NATO. This loss was confirmed by NATO spokesman Jamie Shea during a 05-23-99 press backgrounder.
May 22 Another Hunter UAV crashed on 05-22-99. Surprisingly, this loss was never mentioned in any sources, not even in Yugoslav media. The loss was reported by NATO spokesman Jamie Shea during a 05-23-99 press backgrounder. J. Shea mentioned that the UAV was recovered by NATO troops. No time or place of the incident were mentioned.
May 24 A NATO UAV crashed near Blace, Macedonia around 05-24-99 (map). The aircraft was shot down over Djeneral Jankovic in Yugoslavia. The remains of the UAV were retrieved by NATO troops. The incident was reported by Skopje's A-1 television channel. Tanjug report here.
May 26 A representative of the French Army, Col. Henry Pelissier, announced that a Crecerelle UAV was shot down by Yugoslav air defenses on 05-26-99 over Kosovo. This is the third French UAV loss officially acknowledged by France (two other lost UAVs were another Crecerelle UAV and a CL-289 drone, operated over Yugoslavia by the French Army's 7th Artillery Regiment). AFP report here. Stratfor report here. ITAR-TASS report here (in Russian). The loss of a UAV on 05-26-99 was also mentioned by Canadian Br. Gen. Dave Jurkowski during a May 27 press conference at National Defense headquarters in Canada. Jane's Defense Weekly reported that at least three American and four German UAVs have been lost over Yugoslavia.
May 28 A NATO Hunter UAV was shot down by Yugoslav Navy air defenses over Boka Kotorska bay on 05-28-99 at 09:15 (map). Video caps here.
May 29 A German UAV was shot down over Dramic, near Novi Pazar on 05-29-99 around 17:00 (map). As of 05-31-99 Germany has officially acknowledge losing seven UAVs. AFP report here.
May 29 An unidentified UAV crashed during landing near Skopje, Macedonia on 05-29-99. The incident was reported by Canadian Deputy Chief of Defense Staff, Lt. Gen. Ray Henault during a May 30 press conference at National Defense headquarters. Full transcript of the press conference available here.
May 30 A German CL-289 UAV was lost over Kosovo on 05-30-99. "Germany confirmed that it lost another CL-289 UAV, the seventh since the conflict begun. The cause was unconfirmed." (source: Air Forces Monthly, July 1999, p. 76)
June 8 An unidentified NATO UAV was lost over Yugoslavia on 06-08-99. No details are available at the moment. The loss was confirmed by NATO military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Walter Jertz during a 06-09-99 press conference in Brussels.
June 16 U.S. Army Col. Mike Howell, who oversees the Army's use of UAVs over Yugoslavia, said that Serb gunners shot down 4 out of 12 Hunter UAVs operated by the US over Yugoslavia. The US also admitted to losing 2 Predator UAVs. According to statements made by Yugoslav commanders, NATO lost 60 UAVs, while NATO admitted to losing only about 20 UAVs.
October 1 According to Adroit Systems, Inc. / UAV Forum the U.S. alone lost 15 UAVs during the operation "Allied Force", ten of them were lost due to enemy action and five - due to technical malfunctions or operator errors. This number includes 4 Predators, 4 Pioneers, and 7 Hunters. Click here for more information.
October 10 According to a June 3 New York Times article "at least 21 drones" were lost by NATO during the war in Yugoslavia. Following the publication of this article another UAV loss was officially admitted by NATO on June 8. This brings the number of officially-acknowledged UAV losses to 22 aircraft.
October 16 A July 6 article from the French Le Monde newspaper mentions that France lost a total of 5 UAVs, two CL-289s and three Crecerelles.)
Date unknown At least one Phoenix UAV (serial number ZJ384) of the British Army was shot down over Yugoslavia during the operation "Allied Force." Unofficial NATO sources report that two Phoenix UAVs were lost in the Yugoslav campaign due to enemy action. One Phoenix UAV shot down by Yugoslav air defenses is exhibited at the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum. The aircraft is in remarkably good shape with most of its components, including the sensitive electronic and optical systems, surviving the crash. For more information about the Phoenix UAV system and photos of the Phoenix downed over Yugoslavia click here.
At the moment I have no information about when, where or how this Phoenix UAV was shot down. If you can help me with that, please contact me via e-mail by clicking here.
May 28, 2000 A British "Phoenix" UAV crashed in Kosovo three miles into the buffer zone. The aircraft was quickly picked up by Yugoslav forces, which suggests that it might have been shot down. The AP article here.
June 3, 2000 A U.S. "Hunter" UAV suffered an unspecified technical malfunction and made an emergency parachute landing in Macedonia. NATO officials were negotiating with the Macedonian government to recover the aircraft. The AP article here.
________________________________________
SUMMARY:
Total official NATO UAV losses during "Allied Force"
(According to a June 3 New York Times article "at least 21 drones" were lost by NATO during the war in Yugoslavia. Following the publication of this article another UAV loss was officially admitted by NATO on June 8. This brings the number of officially-acknowledged UAV losses to 22 aircraft. A July 6 article from the French Le Monde newspaper mentions that France lost a total of 5 UAVs, two CL-289s and three Crecerelles.)
Two articles published on the official US Navy web site (http://uav.navair.navy.mil) and on Pilot Online web site report that at least 14 US UAVs were lost in Yugoslavia, including 4 Pioneer types, three of which are believed to have been lost due to fire. Some 6 Hunter UAVs were also lost: 4 due to enemy fire and 2 because of technical failures. Four more US UAVs were lost, three of which are Predator types (serial numbers: 95-3017, 95-3019, 95-3021). This brings the total number of confirmed UAV losses to 30.
Yugoslav military sources claimed 30 NATO UAV kills: 25 UAVs shot down by the 3rd Army air defenses (the 3rd Army was stationed in Kosovo under the command of Gen. Nebojsa Pavkovic), 3 UAVs were downed by Yugoslav Navy air defenses (information released by FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec), and 2 UAVs were shot down by the 2nd Army air defenses (information released by Major General Spasoje Smiljanic). This includes only those UAV that crashed in Yugoslavia.
According to some sources, a fourth Predator UAV, serial number P-016 95-3016, crashed during the Operation Allied Force in May.
• United States: 17 (3 Predators, 9 Hunters, 4 Pioneers, 1 UAV of undetermined type)
• Germany: 7 (presumably all CL-289 turbojet drones)
• France: 5 (3 Crecerelle, 2 CL-289)
• Britain: 13 (all Phoenix)
• four UAVs of undetermined origin (possibly US, German, or Italian)
for more details click here

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 a total of 18 Tomahawk cruise missiles of various modifications were destroyed or damaged by Yugoslav air defenses and did not reach their targets. These include one DAS3 model, thirteen DAS1 models, and four of undetermined model. The missiles destroyed by 17:00 03.26.99:
• 1km south of Belanovica
• 7km south of Belanovica
• 4km south-west of Belanovica
• 3km south-west of Belanovica
• 5km north of Bogatic
• 4km north of Bogatic
• 1km north of Bogatic
• 3km south of Novo Brdo
• 1km north of Novo Brdo
• 1km east of Tulare
• 1km south of Brus (self-destructed after being damaged by AAA fire)
• 3km north of Studenica (sent off course
• 7km north of Brdani (self-destructed after being damaged by AAA fire)
• 8km north of Mionica (self-destructed after being damaged by AAA fire)
• 3km north-east of Tulovo (self-destructed after being damaged by AAA fire)
• 2km north Debrc (sent off course)
• 5km south of Belanovica (self-destructed after being damaged by Yugoslav fighter aircraft.)
March 29 As of morning of 03-29-99 the official statement of the Yugoslav Ministry of Defense stated that 30 Tomahawk missiles have been destroyed or damaged. This information was confirmed by the Voice of Russia radio, based on the information from the Russian Ministry of Defense.
April 12 As of 04-12-99 Yugoslav government officially claims to have shot down 119 Tomahawk cruise missiles (this includes the missiles were not completely destroyed but damaged and sent off course.) Several days ago Russian Minister of Defense said that the number of destroyed Tomahawks was 60. Even though 119 damaged or destroyed missiles may seem like a lot, it's really under 10% of all the cruise missiles launched by NATO (the expected loss rate of cruise missiles of this type is around 7% and the nominal overall effectiveness rate is 85%). Most of Tomahawks were downed by AAA fire.
April 19 A Tomahawk cruise missile has been shot down over Sabac on 04-19-99. According to Russian Foreign Minister, Igor Ivanov, only about 40% of NATO missiles hit designated targets, 60% of which are civilian objects. More information about civilian casualties in Yugoslavia here.
May 2 As of 05-02-99 well over 200 cruise missiles have been shot down over Yugoslavia. A number of other guided weapons have been shot down as well. Some of the photos here. Remains of an unexploded AGM-130, targeting or ECM pod, detonation of an unexploded bomblet of a cluster bomb, and the remains of an AGM-88 HARM missile here. Well over 200 unexploded American-made cluster bombs and other ammunition were discovered by the Italian police and military 22 miles off the shores of Italy in the Gulf of Venice, which is not far from NATO's largest base in Italy at Aviano (map). Three Italian fishermen were seriously injured after a cluster bomb, caught by their net, exploded. Four more unexploded bombs were retrieved from the same net. A military expert, Lucco Montani (sp?), appointed by the prosecutor's office of Venice, said that the bombs are found in semi-armed condition, which significantly complicates their neutralization. The bombs are dropped by F-16, F-18, F-117A, B-1B, and B-2 bombers and fighter-bombers, which missed their targets and often were too damaged by anti-aircraft fire to risk landing with the bombs. Other sources say that a number of NATO pilots drop their bombs in the Adriatic on purpose and blame it on technical problems in order to avoid the risk of actually attacking their targets. In any case, cluster bombs are relatively inexpensive and pilots routinely dispose of them rather than risk landing with the bombs. According to the prosecutor's office of Venice there may be many more areas of the Adriatic saturated with unexploded NATO bombs, especially in the northern part of the sea, overflown by NATO planes from the Aviano base. ITAR-TASS report here, in Russian. NATO's military spokesman Maj. Gen. Walter Jertz said that NATO pilots do dispose of unused bombs by dropping them in the Adriatic and the Alpine lake of Garda (Lago di Garda, map). According to American Human Rights Watch public organization, 5-10% of cluster bombs, outlawed by international conventions but, nevertheless, used by NATO, do not explode when they are supposed to and represent a serious threat to civilians.
May 16 A Tomahawk cruise missile was shot down near the village of Vrsevic (Vrsevce) in the Lipljan municipality (Kosovo) on 05-16-99 at 11:40 local time (map). No NATO planes operated over Kosovo since the previous day, but several cruise missiles were launched. Tanjug report here.
May 24 A downed NATO missile was discovered by local residents near Tetovo in west Macedonia (about 40km to the west of Skopje) on 05-23-99 (map). The crash site was sealed off by NATO troops. Tanjug report here.
May 26 Three unidentified NATO missiles were shot down over Pozarevac, 60km east of Belgrade (map), on 05-26-99 before dawn. Tanjug report here.
May 26 Three more missiles were shot down over Smederevska Palanka on the Danube north of Belgrade (map) after 01:00. Tanjug report here.

June 7 An American B-52 strategic bomber was shot down over Yugoslavia on June 7, 1999. The loss was reported by ITAR-TASS news agency quoting the Foreign Military Review - the official publication of Russian Defense Ministry. Available eyewitness reports suggest that the aircraft was shot down between 00:12 and 00:40 hrs and crashed in the area between Slankamen and Indjija. The B-52 sustained a direct hit by a SAM and exploded in the air. The crew was killed. ITAR-TASS report here. Tanjug report here. The Foreign Military Review also confirmed the loss of one B-2A "Spirit" stealth bomber by the USAF (see below).
Additional information regarding the June 7 B-52 shoot-down indicates that the aircraft was attacked by a total of four SAMs fired by two separate launchers. The first two launches (the type of the SAM system is not known, possibly a Kub) were unsuccessful: the first missile seemed to have developed a technical problem and went astray immediately following the launch; the second SAM was distracted by a radar decoy and missed the target by about 25-50 meters. A nearby Kub-M SAM unit observed the failed attack and launched two of its own missiles. The first Kub-M SAM scored a direct hit against the B-52 and the second SAM launched by the Kub-M was triggered by its proximity fuse when it was in the kill distance of the B-52.
March 29 Five US B-1B strategic bomber have been dispatched to participate in the aggression against Yugoslavia on 03-29-99. Russian doomsayers in the Ministry of Defense always associate appearance of this aircraft anywhere near Russian borders with an open nuclear threat to Russia. It should be expected that Moscow will not be amused at B-1B's appearance over Yugoslavia. No losses so far, but one can always hope...
May 20 One American B-2A Spirit strategic stealth bomber (possibly AV-8 88-0329 Spirit of Missouri) was shot down on 05-20-99 over Surcin at 01:00 local time. The aircraft crashed near the village of Dec (Detch), Pecinci county (in the field between Simanovci and Kupinovo; map 1; map2; map 3). The flight of three B-2As (normally B-2A fly in pairs, one acting as a backup for another) entered Yugoslavian airspace from the northwest and was escorted by several fighter aircraft (B-2As are usually escorted over Yugoslavia by F-15C fighters and F-16CJ fighter/bombers in SEAD role; every mission of B-2As requires about 50 escort and support aircraft). The B-2As were detected by long-wave early-warning radars. The bombers reduced altitude and attacked its targets in Belgrade. One of the B-2As was hit by a SAM in the area of the cockpit and crashed shortly after. Crew was killed in the crash. The incident was reported by Ilustrovana Politika magazine on 06-01-99.
The loss of the B-2A "Spirit" on May 20, 1999, was confirmed by the Foreign Military Review magazine - the official publication of Russian Defense Ministry. ITAR-TASS report here. Tanjug report here. According to the latest reports, the B-2A crashed near the Obedska Bara Lake in the Dec area (villages of Simanovci and Kupinovo). An eyewitness report by a senior Yugoslav army officer indicates that the B-2A was picked up by a radar and sustained a direct hit. The aircraft caught on fire and crashed not far from where it was intercepted by the missile. Parts of the B-2A, including the forward landing gear cover and pieces of the leading edge of the wing, have been seen at the VTI (Military Technology Institute) research facility in Yugoslavia.

gmi serbia

03-23-2007, 03:21 PM

ON THIS THREAD YOU CAN SEE ALL PICS OF SHUT DOWN PLANES, UAV, MISSILES, PIC OF CAPTURED AMERICAN SOLDIER AND HIS ARMS....

READ THIS THREAD OF 1......TO END PAGES ( today 48 pages)

spirit

03-23-2007, 05:15 PM

uh odose mi oci :)

gmi serbia

03-23-2007, 06:58 PM

uh odose mi oci :)

Ха ха опусти се! Они који треба да читају они не читају.

spirit

03-23-2007, 07:02 PM

Ха ха опусти се! Они који треба да читају они не читају.

Jos malo pa cu ovako da izgledam :nerd1:, LOL

gmi serbia

03-23-2007, 07:06 PM

Tomorrow is 8 years from pain and misery NATO agression on Serbia!

FOREVER GLORY FOR SERBIA!

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/302/1237nn4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

spirit

03-24-2007, 05:37 AM

uze mi rec iz usta...

gmi serbia

03-24-2007, 05:17 PM

TODAY IS 8 YEARS FROM PAIN AND MISERY NATO AGRESSION ON SERBIA!

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/6975/328bgdqn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/6641/02007stolicabv0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Children Hospital

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/6832/408beogradgv9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/4203/409beogradbg2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/4717/426beogradnq1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/7738/427beogradks4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/4561/429beogradxi9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/6496/450beograddragisamisovivt9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

FOREVER GLORY FOR SERBIA!

spirit

03-24-2007, 05:27 PM

Some more of NATO PROPAGANDA, it didn’t work at all

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/b9905e-f.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/b9905e-e.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/b9905e-d.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/b9905e-c.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/b9905e-b.jpg

TMK

03-25-2007, 02:01 AM

Today marks the 8th anniversary of the start of the liberation of Kosova from brutal and relentless chetnik forces against mainly the civilian Kosovars. long live NATO.

gmi serbia

03-25-2007, 06:04 PM

Today marks the 8th anniversary of the start of the liberation of Kosova from brutal and relentless chetnik forces against mainly the civilian Kosovars. long live NATO.

I am glad becouse you look all Serbian thread's and what we doing. Thank you. But watch...may be you don't overlook all!:worried2:

Thank you again for escort SERBIAN thread!:laugh4:

spirit

03-25-2007, 06:28 PM

Today marks the 8th anniversary of the start of the liberation of Kosova from brutal and relentless chetnik forces against mainly the civilian Kosovars. long live NATO.

HA ha ha go to Albanian thread dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARBIH

03-25-2007, 09:25 PM

its funny how serbia thinks its so strong but when nato was bombing u guys u were shooting blindly in the sky and hitting nothing but air

Ovich

03-26-2007, 03:38 AM

its funny how serbia thinks its so strong but when nato was bombing u guys u were shooting blindly in the sky and hitting nothing but air

Serbia is not stronger than NATO. but serbia downed some planes and NATO coundnt operate in lower altitude then 15000feets. They could bomb only the unprotectable things like industries, buildings, residental areas.

And they didnt even scrached the army, or military industry.
And serbia resisted for 72days. NATO estimated 3days. And no losses of corse.

Ovich

03-26-2007, 03:39 AM

its funny how serbia thinks its so strong but when nato was bombing u guys u were shooting blindly in the sky and hitting nothing but air

And they bombed 14 tanks whit 14000 missiles.
They were shoting at woden tanks and planes...

spirit

03-26-2007, 04:15 AM

its funny how serbia thinks its so strong but when nato was bombing u guys u were shooting blindly in the sky and hitting nothing but air

Aircraft is big but sky is much much bigger and built is so small compeered to them.:wub2:

PS: Nice photo you have there, BOSANSKE GACICE A:roflmao3: :roflmao3:

gmi serbia

03-26-2007, 07:35 AM

That is thrue. Thank you OVICH.

ARBIH

03-26-2007, 07:45 AM

wasnt it one airplane and one helicopter

ARBIH

03-26-2007, 07:46 AM

yeah thats kinda funny using million dollar rockets to destroy 5 dollar tanks

spirit

03-27-2007, 06:01 PM

yeah thats kinda funny using million dollar rockets to destroy 5 dollar tanks

I don’t think that it would do same damage to US budget even if they where fairing 50 million dollars rockets at tanks worth one penny!!!!

gmi serbia

04-03-2007, 08:12 AM

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/phoenix01.htm

gmi serbia

04-03-2007, 08:13 AM

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/yusamphotos.htm

gmi serbia

04-03-2007, 08:14 AM

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/exhibit/index.htm

Mohmar 'Deathstrike'

04-03-2007, 02:09 PM

Thanks for the links gmi serbia. Unlike some people in this thread claimed, there's not a single piece of B2 wreckage in the exhibit. Only 2 manned planes were shot down by the Yugoslav Armed Forces: An F-16 and a F-117. No more, no less.

gmi serbia

04-06-2007, 06:57 AM

6.april 1941.

Today is 6.april 2007...66 years
On this day on 6.april 1941. Germans bombing Belgrade, capital of Serbia whit 468 plane's. First lower formation on 2500-3000 m alttitude was "Stuka Ju-87". Second formation was "DO-17", "hankel" and "Ju-88" on the 3200-3500 meter.They come frome 2 aerodroms, Austria ( around Wien), from Hungary and Romanien.All formation of planes have 95-105 planes. 3. and more hi formation was fighters "Me-109F" and "Me-110".

FOREVER GLORY FOR DEAD CIVILIANS, BRAVE SERBIAN PILOT'S AND SERBIA!