NATO & America losses in Serbia 1999.

[gmi serbia]

Massage for NATO and America 1999.

"Let them know (NATO) that hell awaits them here. The people and the Army are determined to defend Kosovo at any price. The price which we are offering, they can not afford. They can not enter our territory without great casualties. Naturaly, our casualties are also inevitable. But, if they come here, they have to know that they will not survive, and that they would, for days and months, face a slow and horrible death. Our strength, their fear, despair and uncertainty will kill them."
-Lt. General Nebojsa Pavkovic

Map of killed and captured pilot's

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4715/yumapkilledandcaptured5db.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Map of shot down planes & helicopter's

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2180/orloviranolete5bj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

READ THIS TEXT SLOWLY and you see more...

NATO aircraft losses - summary

These are official figures released by Yugoslav command regarding NATO losses. RV & PVO information was released by Yugoslav command (by General Dragoljub Ojdanic, Chief of General Staff of FRY Army) on June 15, 1999, so it's the most recent information available. But again these numbers include only RV & PVO kills (Air Force and Air Defenses). Information about FRY Navy kills was released by FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec, on 06-10-99. And the information about NATO aircraft downed by the Third Army was released by the Third Army Commander, General Nebojsa Pavkovic, on 06-12-99. Information about NATO aircraft downed by the 2nd Army was released by Major General Spasoje Smiljanic in his interview to Politika newspaper at the end of April. Information regarding aircraft shot down by the 1st Army was provided by General Ninoslav Krstic in his interview for the "Vojska" magazine on May 24, 1999.
• Total RV i PVO & other air defenses: 61 planes, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and 238 cruise missiles
o 3rd Army: 34 planes, 5 helicopters, 25 UAVs and 52 cruise missiles
o Navy: 3 planes, 3 UAVs and over 5 cruise missiles
o 2nd Army: 24 planes, 2 helicopters, 2 UAVs, 30 cruise missiles
o 1st Army: 6 planes, 129 cruise missiles
Total: 61 aircraft, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and over 238 cruise missiles. These numbers include only those NATO aircraft that crashed in Yugoslavia

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 at least one USAF F-16C fighter was lost in air-to-air combat 7km south of Pancevo (map). Serbs said the aircraft was downed by a MiG-29. Four more F-16s were lost due to ground fire in the third wave of attacks. Russian GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate - military intel. service) confirmed that four USAF F-16s were shot down by SAMs and AAAs.
F-16 fighter aircraft experienced significant technical difficulties in 1998-1999 and about 400 such aircraft were grounded by the USAF for safety reasons. It should be fully expected that the F-16s deployed to Italy may develop considerable technical problems during intensive operations against Yugoslavia. This problem will be also augmented by the acute shortage of qualified technical personnel already experienced even before the war. More information here.
April 4 On 04-04-99 a "USAF 31st FW F-16C made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport Bosnia-Herzegovina." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)
April 7 On 04-07-99 one Belgian F-16B two-seat fighter/bomber aircraft (possibly of Belgian 349 Squadron assigned to NATO) was shot down near Novi Sad. Two pilots ejected and were captured: a 42-year-old male pilot and a 28-year-old female co-pilot. The aircraft was shot down by Aleksandar Sunjka using a 20mm anti-aircraft gun. For more info about Belgian F-16s click here.
May 2 According to a statement made by NATO spokesman Jamie Shea on 05-02-99, one American F-16 fighter aircraft made an emergency landing at Sarajevo airport. He did not specify the exact date of the incident. So far, it has only been known that two damaged NATO aircraft landed at Sarajevo: the USAF F-15 on March 25th and a British Harrier on April 19th.
April 19 On 04-19-99 a Danish AF F-16 "made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport, Bosnia-Herzegovina, due to a serious engine problem in the early hours of the morning while flying a combat air patrol mission to protect NATO SFOR troops in Bosnia." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
May 2 A USAF F-16CG fighter aircraft (tail number AV555FS, serial number 88-0550) crashed 18km east of the town of Kozluk, Yugoslavia (according to official NATO report, however, 20km southeast of Sabac according to Yugoslavian reports, map) at 02:20 on 05-02-99. The pilot ejected and NATO reported that he was picked up by NATO rescue forces. Photo from The Times of London here. US Department of Defense news report here. Associated Press report here. Yugoslav sources reported that four NATO rescue helicopters were in the area and exchanged fire with Serbian police. One rescue helicopter was reported down and one more heavily damaged by AAA fire. Some more info here. Take a look at this F-16 (according to USAF) when it was still in one piece. There was an obvious disagreement between the USAF and NATO reports regarding a downing of an F-16 on 05-02-99: USAF and DoD reports identified the lost aircraft as F-16CG, while NATO reports identified the aircraft as F-16CJ. Both models were used extensively during the operation Allied Force. This discrepancy may indicate that that more than one F-16 might have been lost on that date. Adding further confusion, USAF and DoD reports showed that the aircraft crashed near the town of Metic, while official NATO statements place the crash site 18km east of the town of Kozluk, which is some distance away from Metic. Serbian military found and photographed the remains of the F-16CG, tail number AV555FS, near the village of Nakucani, which is quite some distance away from Metic. A report by Associated Press, insists that the aircraft shot down on 05-02-99 was an F-16CJ. The report describes the details of awards given out to several US pilots in connection with the operation Allied Force. Here is an interesting quote from this report: "One of the other Silver Star recipients also was involved in the rescue of a downed U.S. pilot, though in much different circumstances. Kavlick, 32, from Festus, Mo., was flying lead in a group of F-16CJs on a mission to destroy Serb SA-3 and SA-6 surface-to-air missile batteries near the city of Novi Sad on May 2 when his wingman was struck by an SA-3 missile, causing engine failure and forcing the pilot to eject." As you can see, again there is a discrepancy in the type of aircraft shot down. At least now we know that the F-16, whatever model, was brought down by an SA-3 missile and not a technical malfunction as was originally stated by NATO officials.
May 20 An F-16 jet fighter crashed in the village of Gradiste, Croatia 17km southwest of Vinkovci on 05-20-99 at 03:35 local time (map). The incident was observed by a number of local residents, who were woken up by a loud explosion and observed a fireball in the sky and a parachute. The crash site is heavily patrolled by police and several small clashes took place between the police and curious villagers.
May 28 An American F-16 fighter/bomber was shot down over Kosovo on 05-28-99. The aircraft crashed in central Macedonia at 13:45 local time. The pilot of the aircraft was rushed by a rescue helicopter to a hospital in Skopje. The pilot had serious injuries to his head and extremities. Two more wounded American pilots are recovering in the Skopje hospital. An amateur photographer managed to get a shot of the crash site before the remains of the F-16 were retrieved by NATO troops. This incident was reported by Macedonian "Evening News" newspaper. ITAR-TASS report here (in Russian).
July 30, 2000 According to a USAF source, an F-16 fighter was ditched in the Adriatic during the operation "Allied Force." The pilot was rescued. No further information is available. Please e-mail me if you know something about this incident.

March 25 One heavily-damaged USAF F-15 landed at Sarajevo airport on 03-25-99 escorted by another F-15. Photo of a damaged F-15 over Sarajevo from Vojska newspaper. The incident was confirmed by LtCdr Sheena Thomson of SFOR during a joint NATO-SFOR press conference on 03-25-99. You can read the complete transcript of the press conference here.

March 26 One USAF F-15E ground attack/fighter aircraft was downed on 03-26-99 at 17:20 in the village of Donja Trnova, 15km southwest of Bijeljina, Republic of Srpska. Serbs claimed the plane was shot down by a MiG-29 fighter. BBC World News reported the loss on March 27, 1999. More info and a photo here.
March 26 On 03-26-99 USAF F-15E strike fighter of the 48th FW "reported to have run off the runway and been badly damaged while making an emergency landing at Istrana air base, Italy." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)
April 4 On April 4, exactly at 3:27AM one, possibly two USAF F-15 fighter jets were shot down, according to a first-hand report from Sgt. 'Sasa', who participated in the shoot-down. His story: At that time, three combat aircraft were detected flying over their position on Mtn. Ljubic (near Cacak, map). Two were flying very close to each other, while the third was relatively away. Their unit was armed with S-125 Neva SAMs. The order came to launch when the first aircraft was 15km away from their position. At exactly 19km away, it was hit with the first SAM, exploding in the air. Pilot did not eject. The pilot of the other jet ejected at the moment when the first aircraft was hit. They could clearly see the booster blast going vertical for a few moments, and several seconds later both aircraft disappeared from their radar screen. After that shooting, third aircraft, which was always near by, came down and launched its weapons. The Low Blow radar for S-125 was hit (located some 50m away from the launcher), during which Sgt. "Sasa" was seriously wounded while the others sustained only minor injuries. He came out of hospital after the end of the war. They could not confirm the aircraft type while their command says the aircraft were American, most probably F-15s.
April 25 On 04-25-99 a USAF F-15 fighter jet "made emergency landing at Sarajevo Airport, escorted by another F-15, due to a faulty hydraulic pump." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
June 13 One damaged USAF F-15 fighter jet arrived at Aviano airbase, Italy on 06-13-99 at about 20:00 local time. Following landing the aircraft was surrounded by ambulances and fire trucks. Stratfor report here. Eyewitness report here.

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 two F/A-18s were lost 11km south of Ruma (map). Both crews are dead. Several additional Canadian F/A-18s have been dispatched to Italy on 03-30-99.
March 26 At least one German "Tornado IDS" ground attack aircraft was lost sometime between 22:00 03.24.99 and 17:00 03.26.99 (but most likely in the first wave of attacks). This loss was confirmed by Russian military intelligence and Serbs said that they have found the aircraft's crash site. The "Tornado" was shot down 12km south of Pancevo (map) and was completely destroyed. Crew of two is dead. The chairman of NATO's military committee, Gen. Klaus Naumann denied this report.
March 27 Another German "Tornado" was shot down on 03-29-99, as reported by Yugoslav news agency Tanjug. The pilots are said to have ejected. This report may be related to the incident when a German Tornado attack aircraft was shot down and crashed on 03-27-99 around 01:00 in the vicinity of the village Konjevici (Mt. Maljen), near Cacak. The crew of the Tornado ejected and was captured by Serb forces. A detailed account of the incident was published in Vojska magazine (issue 349, 04-04-99, p. 6). You can read the article here (in Serbian).
April 15 One NATO Tornado ground attack aircraft was shot down over Podgorica in the evening hours of 04-15-99. The plane crashed into the Skadarsko lake (map). The plane was shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic using an L70 Bofors anti-aircraft gun.
May 26 A NATO Tornado bomber aircraft was shot down on 05-26-99 at 01:35 over Pozarevac, east of Belgrade (map). The aircraft's fuel tanks fell in the village of Aleksandrovac, and parts of the plane crashed in the municipality of Petrovac na Mlavi area. Pilot ejected. Tanjug report here. Video here. Video caps here. ITAR-TASS report here (in Russian). The aircraft was initially misidentified as Harrier. NATO aircraft over Yugoslavia often drop fuel tanks in an attempt to evade SAMs. Read US News & World Report article here, which describes some of the details of SAM-evasion from a NATO pilot's perspective.
April 15 A French Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft was shot down over Podgorica in the evening hours of 04-15-99. The aircraft crashed into the Rumjie hill (map). The plane was shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic, who on the same day shot down a Tornado ground strike aircraft, using the same L70 Bofors. According to reports, the Mirage was only lightly damaged, but the pilot panicked and ejected. He was captured shortly after.
May 7 Another French Mirage 2000 was downed between 3:43 and 4:30 on May 7, 1999 by a Yugoslav SA-6. The aircraft crashed near Svrljig, about 30 km northeast of Nis (map). The SA-6 SAM system responsible for this kill fired a total of 4 missiles during the war with NATO and downed 2 NATO combat jets. More information here.

March 26 A group of eight British Harrier fighter jets came under heavy AAA fire while on a mission over Yugoslavia on 03-26-99. All of the Harriers are said to have returned to the Gioia del Colle base. However, several aircraft are believed to have been heavily damaged. According the British Ministry of Defence, the Harriers had to turn back to their base before completing their mission.
March 30 According to Yugoslav and Russian press, on 03-30-99 Yugoslav air defense forces shot down one British Harrier fighter aircraft (from those Harriers that operated from a base in Italy).
April 13 A British Harrier fighter aircraft was shot down over Zrenjanin in northern Serbia on 04-13-99 at 21:30. The aircraft was hit by AAA fire, dropped its fuel tanks and later crashed near Tuzla in Bosnia in the village of Osmaci (map). Remains of the fuel tanks of a British Harrier with bullet holes in them were shown on BK television in Yugoslavia.
April 17 Another British Harrier is believed to have been lost over Yugoslavia on 04-17-99. I am still verifying this information and will upload more data as it becomes available.
An audio recording (mp3 format, ~1.6Mb) of a conversation between a NATO combat aircraft pilot and an AWACS controller appeared on the Internet on 04-18-99. From the recording it is clear that a NATO aircraft came under fire and the pilot was forced to eject. Sources in Yugoslav media said that the destroyed aircraft was an F-16 fighter. An opposing theory suggests that the recording was made in 1994, when a British Sea Harrier was shot down over Bosnia. The Harriers were attacking armored vehicles near the town of Gorazde in Bosnia, approximately 50km SE of Sarajevo (map). In support of that theory, one can probably hear the name "Gorazde" on the recording around time index 3:14 from a female AWACS operator and again around time index 4:08. Also, the pilot of the damaged aircraft speaks with British accent. My initial assumption that the aircraft might have been an A-10A Thunderbolt was probably wrong. The aircraft in trouble is most likely a British Harrier.
May 1 According to an official NATO statement, one American USMC AV-8B Harrier crashed in the Adriatic on 05-1-99 while trying to land on a US carrier (USS Theodore Roosevelt) during a "training exercise", pilot was rescued. The US Sixth Fleet command said that the aircraft crashed after losing power 15km east of Brindisi, Italy (one of NATO's airbases is located at Brindisi, map). It is rather strange that a USMC Harrier would be landing on the Roosevelt and it is even more strange that the carrier would be floating around near the shore in shallow waters 15km east of a large ground airbase at Brindisi. What is also interesting is that the USS Nassau and USS Kearsarge amphibious assault ships deployed to the Adriatic, which carry USMC AV-8B Harriers, were nowhere near Brindisi at the time of the crash, but were just off Albanian shore. With this Harrier the number of lost NATO aircraft officially acknowledged by NATO comes to four as of 05-02-99, including the F-117A, an Apache helicopter, and the F-16CG. NATO also acknowledge a loss of four UAVs. Interestingly enough, at about the same time the Harrier was reported to have crashed during a "training exercise", an aircraft was shot down over Belgrade. The plane was hit at low altitude and the two pilots ejected. The incident was witnessed by hundreds of local residents, who observed the scene from their balconies.
May 29 A British Harrier fighter aircraft was shot down on 05-29-99 by a Serbian reservist Milan Galovic, a journalist from Politika magazine, using a Praga AAA. The incident occurred at 02:15 in the western Belgrade and the Harrier crashed near Karakaj in Bosnia after flying for over 100 km (map, map 2). The shoot down was confirmed by local radio amateurs, who were monitoring NATO radio frequencies. The aircraft exploded upon impact and the crash site was immediately surrounded by SFOR troops. A detailed account of the incident was published in the June 11, 1999, issue of REVIJA92 magazine.
March 27 Two F-117A LO light bombers were lost during the third wave of attacks. Pentagon acknowledged the loss of one F-117A, which was shot down by a Yugoslav SAM of undetermined type (possibly SA-6 or SA-3 with optical targeting) and crashed near the village Budjanovci. Pentagon acknowledged the loss of one F-117A (USAF 49th FW / 8th FS F-117A 82-0806/'HO'), which was shot down by a Yugoslav SAM of undetermined type (possibly SA-3 or SA-6) and crashed near the village Budjenovci. From the available footage of the F-117A wreckage it is possible to see bullet holes in the wing of the bomber, probably caused by a 23mm anti-aircraft gun. The damage to the rest of the aircraft seemed severe and looked like it indeed was caused by a SAM. Latest information suggests that the F-117 was shot down by an SA-3 surface-to-air missile with optical guidance. Pentagon officially confirmed that the F-117A was tracked by an enemy radar and that two SAMs were launched at the aircraft. In an interview with Associated Press on November 24, 1999, retired USAF Gen. Richard Hawley, formerly the head of Air Combat Command at Langley AFB in Virginia, talked about the loss of the F-117A 82-0806 during the Kosovo conflict. Gen. Hawley said that prior to the aircraft's departure from Aviano there "was a better that 50 / 50 chance it would be shot down. Those are unacceptable odds." After retiring from the USAF on June 11, 1999, Hawley blamed US field commander and other military planners for not correctly understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the aircraft. Hawley said "They put the 117 into a situation it wasn't designed to handle, so we lost the airplane, and I attribute it as much to a breakdown in our mission planning as to anything else... It encountered defenses we knew it was not designed to handle and it didn't need to get put into that situation." The USAF investigated the loss of the F-117A, however, keeps its findings classified.
The downing of the second F-117A was reported by the Russian National News Service in their March 27, 1999 special report. In regard to the first F-117A shot down, witnesses say that the aircraft was taken out by a SAM. From the available footage of the F-117A wreckage it is possible to see bullet holes in the wing of the bomber, probably caused by a 23mm anti-aircraft gun. The damage to the rest of the aircraft seemed severe and looked like it indeed was caused by a SAM. Pentagon officially confirmed that the F-117A was tracked by an enemy radar and that two SAMs were launched at the aircraft.
More information on the downing of the first F-117A here.
New photos of the shot down F-117A here. A video here (3,551Kb, mpeg)
I've seen the Le Parisien's photo of a downed "F-117", as was reported in their 03-29-99 issue. Evidently the newspaper was wrong and the photographed plane is not the Night Hawk but a MiG-29. Perhaps one of the two Fulcrums downed by NATO over Bosnia.
BBC mentioned a possibility of a second F-117 loss.
April 1 Radio-Zagreb, Yugoslav TV and other sources reported that a US F-117A stealth bomber had to make an emergency landing in Zagreb Airport. Apparently the aircraft sustained heavy damage from Yugoslav air defenses. I have strong reasons to believe that this report was not an April Fool's joke, despite of Croatian Radio 101 tying to present it that way (and being suspiciously persistent at that). Several articles appeared recently in in US press that speculate that a Czech-made Tamara anti-stealth radar may have been transferred to Yugoslavia and now is being used against American stealth aircraft.
April 6 According to the Serbian television report from 04-06-99, a NATO aircraft (presumably another F-117) was shot down early Tuesday morning (04-06-99) in the hilly area of Fruska Gora, 100 km (60 miles) northwest of Belgrade, after NATO aircraft bombed a refinery in the nearby city of Novi Sad. Related Reuters report here. This was one of two NATO aircraft shot down over Yugoslavia on 04-06-99. The second unidentified jet was downed near Novi Sad after it bombed a bridge over Danube. The pilot is believed to have ejected.
April 21 April 21 An F-117A 86-0837/'OT' of the USAF 422nd TES "suffered extensive damage in an unspecified landing accident, details unconfirmed, but reported as a Class A accident." (source: Air Forces Monthly, August 1999, p. 74) "Class A" accident normally means that the plane was totaled or came very near.
April 30 An F-117A of the 49th FW was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM, "...causing loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany." (source: Air Force Monthly, July 1999, p. 75)
April 5, 2000 The ITAR-TASS news agency published a report based on the information provided by the GRU - Russian army's intelligence service. The report indicates that NATO lost three F-117A tactical stealth bombers and at least 40 other planes and over 1000 missiles.
July 30, 2000 According to a Pentagon source, one of the F-117As damaged during the operation "Allied Force" was scrapped. Available information suggests that this might have been the F-117A of the 49th FW that was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM on April 30. The missile strike caused loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany. Alternatively, this could have been the F-117A 86-0837/'OT' of the USAF 422nd TES, which suffered extensive damage in an unspecified "Class A" landing accident. I am trying to establish the serial number of the F-117A recently written-off by the USAF. If you have any information regarding this, please e-mail me.

April 15 According to the radio Belgrade and radio "Voice of Russia" reports, an A-10 attack aircraft crashed in Skopje around 04-15-99 (map).
April 16 On 04-16-99 a USAF 52nd FW/ 81st FS A-10A 81-0984/'SP' "suffered oil pressure failure and diverted to Petrovac Airport, Skopje, Macedonia, for an emergency landing." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)



The OA-10A 81-0967 at Petrovec airbase following repairs
May 2 At 18:00 on 05-02-99 TV Sitel in Skopje, Macedonia reported that a heavily-damaged OA-10A Thunderbolt 81-0967 (construction number A10-0662) of the 23rd Wing, 74th Fighter Squadron, crash-landed near Skopje, not far from the Petrovec airport, used by NATO for emergency landings and rescue operations (map). Pentagon reports indicate that the aircraft was hit by an SA-7 man-portable SAM in the starboard engine. Many eye witnesses in Skopje reported that the aircraft appeared to have serious damage to one of its engines (right engine relative to the pilot) and a wing.
Several missiles were still attached to the underwing pylons, creating a danger of explosion and a panic among local residents. Some 40 minutes after the crash, the aircraft was towed by a NATO vehicle to the Petrovec airport. Photo here. A larger version of the same photo here. ABC News reported on 05-03-99: "NATO military spokesman General Walter Jertz said NATO encountered increased resistance by Serb anti-aircraft defences and one alliance plane, a U.S. A-10 Thunderbolt, had been hit and damaged but had landed safely in Skopje, Macedonia." Serbian television showed the remains of an A-10A Thunderbolt on 05-04-99. The video was shot on 05-02-99 and showed one of the aircraft's engines, which was directly hit by a missile, and other parts, including a plate with the plane's make (A-10A), serial number on the engine cover (A 40662, which is the construction number for the OA-10A 81-0967) and code number (77751). The ITAR-TASS report here. Video here. Photos. Reuters report here.
Early available information indicated that the aircraft was flown by Capt. Chris Short, who's A/OA-10A was confirmed to have been damaged. However, now it is know that Capt. Short's aircraft was damaged during a combat mission on May 11 (see next entry). The name of the pilot who flew the OA-10A 81-0967 is not known. Following the crash landing of the 81-0967 Macedonian TV reported that the pilot of the aircraft was injured. Eyewitness reports I have (from members of the Pristina air defense unit) of the incident involving the 81-0967 over Kosovo indicate that two A-10s were involved, one of which was shot down. Earlier it was believed that the aircraft parts shown on Serbian TV belonged to the downed A-10. However, the aircraft's construction number visible on the engine nacelle indicates that it belongs to the A-10 that landed in Macedonia.


May 11 On May 11, 1999, an OA-10A serial number 81-0984 piloted by Capt. Chris Short landed at the Gioia del Colle airbase in Italy with damage to the underside of the aircraft. The damage is believed to have been caused by a nearby explosion of an SA-13 SAM. It is known that the same aircraft was suffered oil pressure problems and was diverted to the Petrovec base in Macedonia for repair on April 16, 1999. RAF yearbook (p. 46) details Capt. Short's encounter with the SAM:
'Amongst the many encounters by the 81st FS was one on 11 May, when a pair of OA-10s were performing an airborne FAC mission over eastern Kosovo. Pilots Capt. Chris Short, and his wingman Col. Greg Sanders, entered their designated box area from the south and were notified by an E-3 to search for a possible Serbian helicopter. After 15 minutes of fruitless search, they discovered a possible tank revetment south of Pristina airfield. A Maverick missile was fired at the site, although it was not possible to determine if the tank had been successfully hit. The pilots radioed the position of the tank revetment to another FAC team, and departed the area. The A-10s then flew to another location, where earlier in the day two camouflaged APCs had been reported. Two vehicles were detected, but due to low fuel reserves, the pilots were only able to perform two attacks. Capt. Short rolled his A-10 towards the vehicle and fired a Maverick, scoring a direct hit. The second aircraft aimed for the other vehicle, and also fired a Maverick which missed its target. The two aircraft then climbed to altitude to return to the tanker before continuing their patrol. While in the climb, Capt. Short experienced a 'thump' on the underside of the fuselage behind the seat. As a defensive measure both aircraft ejected self protection flares. Neither Col. Sanders or Capt. Short could find any damage to their aircraft, so the two pilots resumed their flight after refuelling from the tanker. The two aircraft completed their mission, which included delivering Mk82 bombs onto a Serb target in Kosovo. The aircraft then returned to Gioia del Colle. It was only after taxing into the de-arming area that personnel noticed damaged to the underside of the A-10. The FM antenna had been torn away, and there was a large dent on the underside and a black scorch mark. A SAM is believed to have exploded nearby, with Capt. Short having a lucky escape'
May 24 An American A-10A Thunderbolt ground attack aircraft was shot down near Klina (Glinan), Kosovo, about 46km to the west of Pristina, on 05-22-99 (map). The incident was reported by Tanjug news agency. ITAR-TASS report here.

June 11 An RAF C-130K Hercules C.1 XV 298 transport aircraft from RAF Lyneham crashed on 06-11-99 in Albanian town of Kukes, while attempting to land on a dirt airstrip built by UAE humanitarian mission in Albania. The aircraft was carrying 12 people and ammunition. It exploded upon impact. According to NATO spokesman, one person on board was injured and hospitalized. AP report here. Reuters report here.
October 25 According to The Sunday Times article, the RAF C-130K Hercules, that crashed in Kukes, Albania on 06-11-99 was used by British SAS troops trying to beat Russian paratroopers to the Slatina airport near Pristina, Kosovo. It was reported that serial numbers on the C-130K were removed.
March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 one Yugoslav MiG-21FK was lost 5km south of Loznica (map). The aircraft was shot down by two F/A-18s at an altitude of 4300m.
March 28 Chief of General Staff of Russian armed forces Gen. A. Kvashnin announced on 03-28-99 that Yugoslavia may have lost up to 4 MiG-21s. Gen. Kvashnin also said that Yugoslavs lost 2-3 MiG-23s (I was not aware that Yugoslavia even had those) and 2-3 MiG-29s. According to the general NATO lost at least 7 aircraft and over 30 cruise missiles were destroyed or damaged and did not hit their targets.
April 18 On 04-18-99 one MiG-21 was damaged and had to make an emergency landing 10km from Ponikve airbase in Yugoslavia, after being hit by a NATO SAM during an attack on Tuzla airport in Bosnia-Herzegovina. More details here.
May 12 A MiG-21 fighter aircraft is believed to have crashed shortly after taking off from Pristina airbase in Kosovo on 05-12-99. NATO radars detected the aircraft taking off, but, according to NATO officials, the MiG-21 was not attacked by any NATO forces an crashed on its own, probably due to a mechanical problem. However, a different story came from OSCE, which stated that this MiG-21 fighter was involved in bombing of KLA troops and crashed in Albanian territory near the village of Padesh. The KLA suffered heavy losses during the battle with Yugoslavian troop on 05-11-99 and the night of 05-12-99. Several MiG-21 aircraft were seen over Albania using cluster bombs against KLA terrorists, who mistakenly assumed that the planes belonged to NATO and did not bother to take cover. The KLA representative said that this MiG-21 was shot down by a NATO plane, but NATO said that it wasn't. Nando Times report here. Evidently, NATO was involved in this incident but is trying to keep the lid on the deteriorating situation in Albania.
May 11 NATO reported that it hit five MiG-21 aircraft on the ground during its attacks on 05-11-99. During a press briefing, NATO's military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Jertz said that two of the MiG-21s were attacked by two F-15E on a highway (!) He did not specify the exact location. According to the general, three more MiG-21s were hit on the ground close to Pristina. Again, no exact location was given. NATO did not provide any images of the supposedly destroyed MiGs. Since the beginning of the campaign, NATO published only one video of an attack on a MiG-21 on 04-16-99. There is a good chance that NATO planes attacked wooden mockups of MiGs or the older MiG-21 models withdrawn from service (more info here), which Yugoslavia uses quite extensively along with very realistic mockups of tanks and SAMs to disperse the efforts of NATO planes and draw them into air defense ambushes. In an official statement from 05-11-99, representative of the Belgian armed forces' general staff, Maj. Gen. Pier Serge (sp?), disagreed with NATO's assessment of the damage it caused to the Yugoslavian armed forces. According to the general, Yugoslavia lost only one-fifth of its MiG-21 fighters, a mere 6% of its tanks deployed in Kosovo, 18% of artillery, and 13% of military vehicles. He also said that only 30% of Yugoslavia's oil and oil product reserves were destroyed, not 80%, as NATO claims, and that many of Yugoslavian oil refineries, hit by NATO planes, continue to operate. ITAR-TASS report here, in Russian.

March 28 Chief of General Staff of Russian armed forces Gen. A. Kvashnin announced on 03-28-99 that Yugoslavia may have lost 2-3 MiG-23s (I was not aware that Yugoslavia even had those, however, some people informed me that Yugoslavia may have 5-10 MiG-23s of Iraqi origin: Iraq sent Yugoslavia several planes of that type prior to the Persian Gulf War and Yugoslavia is using MiG-23s in agreement with Iraq). Gen. Kvashnin also said that Yugoslavs lost up to 4 MiG-21s and 1-2 MiG-29s. According to the general NATO lost at least 7 aircraft and over 30 cruise missiles were destroyed or damaged and did not hit their targets.
March 24 One MiG-29 was shot down in an air-to-air combat on 03-24-99, shortly after taking-off from Batajnica airfield heading north to intercept attacking NATO aircraft. The aircraft was piloted by Major Nebojsa Nikolic (for an interview with Major Nikolic click here). The aircraft crashed in Knicanin, near the town of Titel in the Vojvodina province (see photos of the crash site here). A second MiG-29, from the same airfield, was accidentally damaged by Yugoslavian AAA fire. The plane landed safely.
One damaged MiG-29 was destroyed on the ground at Nis airfield by a NATO bomb. No exact date of the incident is known. There is a good chance that this was a decoy.
March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 one Yugoslav MiG-29 was lost 13km south of Bogatic (map). The aircraft was downed by three F-16s at 7100m - this kill is attributed to a Dutch F-16 fighter (for more details click here). The aircraft was piloted by Major Zoran Radosavljevic. The aircraft possibly crashed in Bosnia near Ugljevik. Photos here.
March 26 On March 26 a MiG-29 piloted by Lt.Col. Slobodan Peric was engaged by two USAF F-15Cs after shooting down a NATO aircraft (possibly an F-15E, see entry above) in the area between Lazarevac and Loznica. The MiG-29 crashed in Bosnia. In confusion, BBC and a number of other western news networks aired a video of what was claimed to be the second MiG-29 crash site in Bosnia. However, the aircraft on the video had inscriptions in English on the fuselage, including an "Annual Inspection" sign, which can be found only on the US aircraft. This aircraft might have been the F-15E shot down by Lt. Col. Peric, just before he himself was shot down by a pair of F-15Cs. More info and a photo here. Several photos of the "first" MiG-29 (piloted by Lt. Col. Peric) shot down over Bosnia were released by NATO.
March 28 Chief of General Staff of Russian armed forces Gen. A. Kvashnin announced on 03-28-99 that Yugoslavia may have lost 2-3 MiG-29s. Gen. Kvashnin also said that Yugoslavs lost 2-3 MiG-23s (I was not aware that Yugoslavia even had those, although now it appears that Yugoslavia used Iraqi MiG-23s transferred to Yugoslavia before the Persian Gulf War for repairs) and up to 4 MiG-21s. According to the general NATO lost at least 7 aircraft and over 30 cruise missiles were destroyed or damaged and did not hit their targets.
May 4 On 05-04-99 NATO claimed to have shot down one Yugoslavian MiG-29 tactical fighter. The aircraft was reportedly shot down by a USAF F-16CJ of the 31st Air Expeditionary Wing's 78th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron in a high-speed air-to-air engagement at an altitude of 4km. USAF report here. According to reliable sources in Yugoslavia, this MiG-29 was piloted by Col. Milenko Pavlovic, commander of the 204th Aviation Regiment. His MiG-29 was shot down on May 4 over Valjevo (map) by Yugoslav SA-6 Kub SAM in an incident of friendly fire and not by the USAF F-16CJ.
Early in the conflict (no exact date is yet known), one J-22 Orao aircraft was shot down while flying anti-cruise missile mission. The aircraft was hit by an AAM in close combat. The Orao was seriously damaged, but instead of ejecting, the pilot directed his plane into a pair of NATO aircraft, directly hitting and destroying one of them.
April 18 On 04-18-99 one J-22 Orao was destroyed by a NATO SAM during an attack on Tuzla airport in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Pilot did not survive. More details here.

April 22 One G-4 ground strike aircraft was destroyed by a NATO bomb during preparations for take-off from Nis airfield approximately on 04-22-99. No exact date of the incident is known.
One Yugoslavian Mi-8 helicopter from Nis airfield was relocated several times from place to place. During the last such relocation the Mi-8 hit a tree with its tail rotor and crashed. No location or exact date of the incident is known.
March 17 On 03-17-99 NATO have released a video (MPEG format, 3,315Kb, full listing of NATO videos here), entitled "HIP Helicopter Pristina Airfield", made by a targeting camera, of what appears (at least to NATO) to be an Mi-8 (NATO: Hip) transport helicopter. This is the first such video released by NATO. Photo here. But what is very interesting, on the video one can clearly see a four-bladed helicopter. All Mi-8s are five-bladed (as you can see from the photo on the left)! The helicopter on the video is most likely an Mi-4 (NATO: Hound) utility/transport helicopter. But there's one more problem: Yugoslavia has no operational Mi-4s (and it doesn't have any four-bladed helicopters that look even remotely like the one in NATO's video). What is even more interesting is that Albania does operate Mi-4s (the Chinese-built Z-5 version) and it is the only country in the region that does. It is known that Albania-based KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) terrorists do use a few transport helicopters, most likely Mi-4s, unofficially provided by Albanian army. On the NATO's video (the portion shown on BBC), the helicopter's blades are turning slowly (it has either just landed or it's taking off. You cannot really see the rotating blades on the on-line video, but it seemed like the blades were turning in the video clip shown on BBC. In any case, this is not essential). It's more than likely that another trigger-happy NATO flyer (like the one, who mistook tractors for tanks) caught this "Serbian" helo in the act and, not having too much time to think, let alone count the blades, blasted the hell out of it. NATO says that the helicopter was sitting on "Pristina Airfield", but look at the photo: since when are they plowing airfields? More "help" like that from NATO and KLA may be tempted to join IRA or Mr. Bin Laden (well, actually, it already has). For more click here.

April 24 On 04-24-99 a US Army AH-64A Apache helicopter "made a precautionary landing in a field at Castiglione della Pescaia on the Italian West coast after departing Pisa Airport, Italy, en route to Brindisi before crossing the Adriatic for deployment to Albania. A warning light indicating an engine problem was the reason for the landing and the helicopter continued with its journey after repairs had been carried out on site." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
April 26 A U.S. Army Apache helicopter crashed near Albania's capital, Tirana, on 04-26-99 and the two pilots were evacuated to the 212th Mobile Army Surgical Hospital at Tirana Airport, as was announced by Pentagon officials. This was a second major accident involving American Apache helicopter in less then a week: only several days earlier another Apache had to make an emergency landing on an Italian airbase after developing mechanical problems. This helicopter had to remain in Italy. More details on the Apache crash here.
April 26 According to different reports, from 11 to 14 Apaches were destroyed on the ground during an attack by Yugoslav Air Force on Rinas airport near Tirana, Albania, on April 26. More information here.
April 25 A U.S. Army Apache helicopter was captured by Yugoslav troops on 04-25-99, while flying a low-level reconnaissance mission. The information I received from reliable private sources in Yugoslavia suggests that the helicopter was ambushed by a group of 30 Yugoslav soldiers armed with Igla man-portable SAMs. The helicopter did not put up any resistance. It landed and the crew surrendered. There certainly is a good reason to suspect that the Apache which crashed during "exercises" and the Apache captured by the Serbs may be the same aircraft. After all, there were only 24 of them in the region, so, if an aircraft was lost to the Serbs, NATO would have had to admit it or to find a plausible explanation for the missing helicopter. What I find remarkable is the fact that both of the pilots not only survived but were reported to be in good condition. This would certainly free NATO from an obligation to inform their families and mention their names, at least in the immediate future. And this would certainly free NATO from dealing with the problem of two "dead" bodies (or two "patients" in a local hospital). A perfect solution: we had an accident, crew is fine - no bodies, no hospitalization. Perhaps NATO would even come up with a photo of the crash site. (Well, what'd you know, they did. But the photos...well, not exactly what I expected.)
May 5 Another American Apache helicopter crashed 75km north of Tirana on 05-05-99 at 01:30 local time. NATO reported the incident, saying that the helicopter crashed in yet another "training exercise" (this is getting ridiculous). The crew of two is dead. Out of the force of 24 Apaches dispatched to Albania, one remained in Italy after catching fire due to a mechanical malfunction and crash-landing on an Italian airbase, another Apache crashed during a "training exercise" of 04-27-99 near Tirana, and one Apache crashed on 05-05-99 also near Tirana and also on a "training mission." They better finish their "training" before they run out of helicopters. ABC News report here. ITAR-TASS report here. A few interesting details: according to the Pentagon officials, this group of (almost) 24 Apaches is the most experienced in the US. This group of pilots had 7-months combat experience in Bosnia. The two pilots who were killed in this latest Apache "accident", were among the most experienced of this group. As of May 5, 1999 the Pentagon officials did not rule out that the crashed might have been caused by hostile fire. The Pentagon officials did say that a loss of two Apaches in such a short period of time is "highly abnormal." Pentagon and NATO are at odds with each other regarding the use of the Apaches. In a few words: Americans are afraid to use them because of the threat of man-portable SAMs and a strong possibility of a massive response by the Yugoslavian troops. NY Times 05-16-99 article here. A 05-23-99 issue of German Weld am Sonntag newspaper quoted a classified NATO report stating that the U.S. Apache helicopter, that crashed in Albania on 05-05-99, was "likely shot down by Serb forces." According to the newspaper, the NATO report came to this conclusion "from the fact that the chopper erupted into a fireball in mid-air before crashing to the ground." Swedish Aftonbladet newspaper also quoted the classified NATO report suggesting that the second Apache, which crashed on 05-05-99, exploded in mid-air, possibly as a result of a SAM impact. Agence France Presse article from 05-22-99 here. A more coherent explanation for the second Apache crash in Albania was leaked by an unnamed Pentagon source, who suggested that the helicopter might have been shot down by a high-power sniper rifle, with which Serb troops are amply equipped. Such a weapon is equipped with capable night vision scope and can be fired in silence from long distance without being detected by the Apaches sensors as a portable SAM launch would be. Here is what The American Spectator magazine writes about the second Apache crash in Albania: "...Moreover, two of the Apaches had crashed on training missions early on, one during a nighttime exercise in the mountains that had left both pilots dead. A German newspaper reported that the chopper had been shot down by Serb rocket fire, a claim vigorously denied by the Pentagon. The official line was that the crash was still under investigation, and of the dozen or so pilots I spoke with only one consented to talk about the accident. He said he had been in the air that night on the same exercise and that the crash was "unexplainable." He said none of the pilots had any radar indication of hostile fire below, nor did the chopper appear to clip a wire or hit any other obstacle. "It just flew over a mountain," he said, "and exploded. We knew right away--no way those guys could have come out alive." Whatever happened, the incident had understandably set a sour mood around the camp for a time, I suppose particularly--though no pilot ever said so directly--because everyone knew they weren't there for battle in the first place." (source: The American Spectator, August 1999, Vol. 32 No. 8, Pg. 32). For the complete article click here.
Although the Apaches in Albania were never officially used in combat, Yugoslav military sources report that two AH-64s were shot down while escorting search-and-rescue teams over Kosovo. No exact dates or locations of these two incidents are known.
After going through all the trouble of getting those Apaches to Albania and preparing the crews, after all the publicity and embarrassment over the a month-long "rapid deployment" and the loss of two helicopters in less than a week, the Pentagon decided to commit only eight Apaches to the peacekeeping mission in Kosovo. Do the math: 24 Apaches, minus 2 "training" accidents," minus at least 11 Apaches destroyed or damaged helicopters at Rinas, minus 2 shot down during SAR missions, minus 1 captured Apache comes out to be 8, or exactly the number of Apaches the Pentagon so generously committed to Kosovo operations.
March 27 An SFOR helicopter crashed with on 03-27-99 around 03:20 in the area between Vrutak and Kremna, near Uzice. The helicopter exchanged fire with a Yugoslavian infantry unit and was shot down by a Strela-2M man-portable SAM. All 22 people onboard are dead.
March 28 One HH-60G Black Hawk carrying 2 pilots and 12 troops was shot down in the early morning of March 28, 1999. The helicopter came down in Bosnian Serb territory between the towns of Bijeljina and Tuzla, near the Serbian border (map). The crashed helicopter was quickly reached by NATO-led SFOR troops and local journalists were kept away. It is believed that the helicopter was operated by SFOR troops and not by a NATO special rescue unit. Reported by Tanjug, Yugoslav news agency. Russian ITAR-TASS news agency reported on 03-28-99 that this helicopter crash might have been related to another crash of a NATO aircraft.
March 29 On 03-29-99 Yugoslav and Russian news agencies reported two more NATO rescue helicopters down, possibly also HH-60Gs. For those of you who may be surprised what a troop-transporting helicopter would be doing over Serbia: the HH-60G is operated by US combat rescue units, whose heavy presence over Serbia is caused by the increasing number of downed NATO aircraft. It is known that this helicopter was shot down not far from a crash site of unidentified NATO jet aircraft downed just minutes earlier. Perhaps this was the aircraft remains of which were shown on Serb TV on 03-30-99 and reported by Russian ITAR-TASS news agency. It is said that the plane was a bomber.
The report of a rescue helicopter crash on 03-28-99 have been indirectly confirmed by a Greek newspaper Athinaiki, which in its 04-03-99 issue reported that 12 bodies of American servicemen were delivered from Macedonia to 424th General Army Hospital in Thessalonica on 03-31-99 and later shipped to the US (a high-ranking source in the hospital privately denied this report, but there was no official response from the hospital's administration, which by itself is very revealing). Seven more bodies of American soldiers were delivered also from Macedonia to Greece on 04-01-99. The newspaper reports that the bodies of the dead American servicemen were delivered by American special troops, which were joined by Greek police on the state border. The fact of delivery of 19 bodies of American servicemen to Greece was independently confirmed by Macedonian customs officials. They said that the coffins were delivered in two batches - 12 and later 7 - escorted by American military officers. The bodies are believed to be those of American pilots and members of rescue teams.
According to the latest report by Greek Athinaiki newspaper, NATO lost a total of 88 servicemen in Yugoslavia, of which 44 are Americans, 11 are Germans, 7 are British and 19 are of other nationalities. Athinaiki also believes that NATO lost 32 planes and helicopters in the conflict. NATO casualties reportedly are being transported back to home countries via Greece. It is certainly noteworthy that this independent look on NATO's actual losses in Yugoslavia comes from a country-member of the Alliance. Yugoslav media recently released images of coffins with American servicemen being carried through a border checkpoint in Macedonia.
Another Greek newspaper, Vradini, wrote that during the first 28 days (03-24-99 to 04-21-99) of NATO's aggression against Yugoslavia, NATO lost at least 81 servicemen, most of them were pilots of downed NATO aircraft and members of special rescue forces. According to the newspaper, this number does not include volunteers from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and other countries, who are fighting on the side of KLA terrorists. US military analysts believe that KLA sustained very heavy losses since the beginning of NATO bombing campaign. Numerous reports of many dead NATO servicemen pouring from Macedonia and Greece (NATO member) seem to confirm Yugoslavia's claims of several dozen destroyed NATO aircraft.
Speaking of losses among rescue units, on 05-03-99 Stratfor reported the following: "2150 GMT, 990503 – The U.S. announced on May 3 that it called more than 100 U.S. Air Force (USAF) para-rescue reservists to active duty. The 120 airmen of the 939th Rescue Wing based in Portland, Oregon, join 2,116 reservists called up last week to serve on active duty. U.S. officials said that the activation of the members of the 939th Rescue Wing would increase the U.S. military’s ability to quickly extract downed pilots from hostile environments." Feel free to interpret this any way you like (I guess you know what my interpretation would be.)
April 2 According to Russian Radio and RosBusinessConsulting news agency report on 04-02-99 Yugoslav air defenses shot down one NATO combat jet and two helicopters carrying 58 troops of NATO's special rescue units. The incident occurred 200km to the south-west of Belgrade in the same area where another NATO aircraft was shot down earlier. According to the Russian Radio report all NATO pilots and troops involved in this incident are believed to be dead. There is no information about the types of aircraft shot down. The number of the troops reported to have been on board of the two helicopters (58) suggests a possibility that CH-53/53E (most likely MH-53J operated by USAF in CSAR capacity) heavylift transport/assault helicopters were shot down.
May 26 American SFOR OH-58C Scout Kiowa reconnaissance helicopter crashed on 05-26-99 at 23:20 7km south-east of Brcko in the area of Ristici, Bosnia (map). SFOR, IPTF and LP responded to the scene. Two pilots on board suffered injuries: first pilot suffered minor injuries and was treated at SFOR base in Tuzla; second pilot sustained head and leg injuries and as of 05-27-99 he is still being treated at the Tuzla SFOR base. According to new information, the incident occured on the same day as unidentified Serbian troops fired rocket-propelled grenades at the US Army intelligence headquarter in Brcko. On the same day a Serb pilot ejected over Bosnia, also in the area of Ristici.
April 9, 2001 A NATO Puma helicopter - one of two such aircraft operated by the British KFOR units in Kosovo - has crashed at around 15:45 local time near Kacanik, 30 miles south of Pristina, Kosovo. The incident was confirmed by Maj. Axel Jandesek, a spokesman for the NATO-led Kosovo peacekeeping force. Seven NATO servicemen were aboard the helicopter when it went down near the border between Kosovo and Macedonia. At least one person aboard the helicopter died in the crash. Unnamed NATO officials told Reuters that there is no sign of any hostile action and that the helicopter most likely crashed due to poor weather. Available early reports: 1, 2, 3, 4
About 6 British Puma helicopters were employed during the operation 'Allied Force' against Yugoslavia in 1999. The last incident involving a British KFOR Puma helicopter occured in January of 2001, when one such aircraft landed in Serbia due to navigational problems, as was reported by NATO officials.


Unidentified combat jet aircraft and helicopters


March 29 According to Yugoslav news agency Tanjug, from 03.28.99 - 03.29.99 five NATO fighter/bomber aircraft of unidentified type were downed over Yugoslavia. Two of the aircraft were downed over southern Kosovo - one around Pristina and another over Pastrik. According to Serb troops and police another of five aircraft was downed on the night of 03.28.99 in central Serbia near the town of Gornji Milanovac (map). ITAR-TASS report here. The pilot ejected. The fourth of five aircraft, downed between 03.28.99 - 03.29.99, crashed along with a transport helicopter (see above) in Bosnian territory between the towns of Bijeljina and Tuzla (map). The fifth plane came down in Bosnian Serb territory on Sunday afternoon 40km north-west of Zvornik (map), as was reported by Reuters. Perhaps this was the aircraft remains of which were shown on Serb TV on 03-30-99 and reported by Russian ITAR-TASS news agency. It is said that the plane was a bomber. Chinese Xinhua news agency also reported, based on Yugoslavian media information, that NATO lost four aircraft on 04-26-99.

April 2 According to Russian Radio and RosBusinessConsulting news agency report on 04-02-99 Yugoslav air defenses shot down one NATO combat jet and two helicopters carrying 58 troops of NATO's special rescue units. The incident occurred 200km to the south-west of Belgrade in the same area where another NATO aircraft was shot down earlier. According to the Russian Radio report all NATO pilots and troops involved in this incident are believed to be dead. There is no information about the types of aircraft shot down. The number of the troops reported to have been on board of the two helicopters (58) suggests a possibility that CH-53/53E heavylift transport/assault helicopters were shot down.
April 2 According to the statement by the Chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, by 04-02-99 NATO alliance lost at least 60 aircraft and cruise missile.
April 6 An unidentified NATO jet was downed by Yugoslav AAA fire near Novi Sad on 04-06-99 after it bombed a bridge over Danube (map). The pilot is believed to have ejected. This incident was reported by Yugoslav TV and Russian news agency ITAR-TASS.
April 11 A NATO aircraft (possibly a German Tornado) was shot down over northern Serbia at 00:12 a.m. local time (22:12 GMT) on 04-11-99, Tanjug news agency reported quoting eye witnesses. The witnesses said they saw anti-aircraft fire hit a plane over a village between Sombor and Odzaci in Vojvodina province, about 200 kilometers northwest of Belgrade (map). Xinhua news report here. Latest reports (June 2000) indicate that the aircraft's remains were recovered near Sombor. Pieces of the aircraft were picket up by the troops from the SAM unit that was responsible for downing the plane.
April 13 In the interview with Russia’s military daily Krasnaya Zvezda, or Red Star, Milosevic said Yugoslavia had shot down 36 NATO aircraft and 119 cruise missiles [less then 10% of the total number of cruise missiles launched at Yugoslavia] since the bombing began and accused the alliance of hiding its losses. (04-14-99) Russian ITAR-TASS news agency also reported that NATO lost 36-42 aircraft and 119 cruise missiles by 04-14-99.
April 13 According to unofficial sources in Yugoslav army, an unidentified NATO jet was shot down over Pancevo on 04-13-99.
April 18 On 04-18-99 a group of nine Yugoslavian aircraft attacked an airport in Tuzla, Bosnia-Herzegovina, which NATO aircraft used for emergency landings and rescue operations. As the result, 17 NATO aircraft and 3 helicopters were damaged or destroyed. One Yugoslavian J-22 Orao strike aircraft was lost to a SAM (pilot did not survive) and one MiG-21 fighter was damaged, also by a SAM, and had to crash-land (pilot survived and aircraft is mainly in-tact). More details here.
April 19 During an intensive air attack on Pristina on 04-19-99 NATO lost three aircraft, one of which is believed to have crashed into Cicavica mountain after being hit by a SAM about 7pm local time. All three aircraft were brought down over or near Pristina, as reported by the Yugoslav Army Pristina Corps anti-aircraft defenses. ITAR-TASS report here.
April 19 A NATO aircraft crashed into the Sara mountain in Macedonia on 04-19-99 at 10:30am local time, as reported by local residents. According to witness reports, the aircraft came from the direction of Kosovo and the crash site was quickly surrounded by NATO troops. This incident was reported by WAY news web site.
April 20 According to Yugoslav Tanjug and Russian ITAR-TASS news agencies, a NATO jet aircraft was shot down near village Jastrebac on 04-20-99 around 12 midnight local time (map). The loss was reported on BBC World news (04-19-99, 7:30pm US EST). ITAR-TASS report here.
April 24 ITAR-TASS' military information database "Vega" reported a loss of three NATO aircraft over Yugoslavia on 04-24-99. All three aircraft were shot down during an attack on the capital of Kosovo, Pristina. One of the three aircraft crashed near village of Businje (map). The other two aircraft crashed to the south and south-west from Pristina. There is no information about the pilots of the three aircraft. ITAR-TASS report here.
April 28 In an interview with Yugoslav TV on 04-28-99, Yugoslav Col. General Dragoljub Ojdanic announced that to this date NATO lost 46 combat planes, 6 helicopters, 8 UAVs, and 182 cruise missiles. According to an official announcement of the Yugoslav Army Supreme Command Headquarters Information Service, these are only those NATO aircraft that fell in Yugoslav territory. April 29th interview with Col. Gen. Ojdanic from Politika newspaper here (in Serbian) and here (in English). You can also read an official statement in English made by the Major General Spasoje Smiljanic, commander of the YA Air Force and Air Defence (Second Army). He mentions NATO losses suffered from air defenses of the Second Army.
April 28 Two unidentified NATO aircraft crashed on 04-28-99 in Macedonia after being hit by Yugoslav AAA fire. One of the aircraft crashed in western Macedonia after exploding in flight. Another aircraft crashed in a Macedonian village near the border with Yugoslavia. The latter incident was observed by numerous eye witnesses. The incident was reported by a radio station in Pristina and Tanjug news agency. Chinese Xinhua news agency report here.
May 4 An unidentified NATO aircraft was shot down on 05-04-99 at midnight during a bombing raid against a Serbian town of Bajina Basta, situated near the border with Bosnia-Herzegovina (map). This was one of two NATO planes shot down over Yugoslavia on that date. The incident was reported by Tanjug news agency and by Russian ITAR-TASS news agency. ITAR-TASS report here.
May 4 Another NATO jet aircraft was shot down by Yugoslavian air defenses near the town of Valjevo (map) during a daylight bombing raid on the Krusik factory located in this town on 05-04-99 after 12:00 local time. This was the second attack against this factory. ITAR-TASS report here.
May 11 A NATO jet aircraft was shot down near Gruza in central Serbia on 05-11-99 at about 12:40 local time. Numerous witnesses reported that the pilot ejected and the plane crashed on the slopes of Mount Gledijske, between the villages of Cestin, Bajcetina, and Sibnica (map). Reuters report here. By today (05-11-99) NATO lost 10% of its engaged manned combat aircraft, which amounts to 70 planes and helicopters, Yugoslavian news agency Tanjug reports.
May 15 A NATO plane of unidentified type was shot down over Padinska Skela, on the northern outskirts of Belgrade on 05-15-99 at around 1115 GMT (map). The incident was confirmed by numerous eye witnesses.
May 16 A NATO officer landed with a parachute 400 meters from the Macedonian village of Izvor (21km from the town of Titov Veles) on 05-16-99 (map). Local farmers tried to approach the man, but he ran away to nearby woods. The man was picked up by two rescue helicopters 15 minutes later. According to many eye witnesses, the parachutist was wearing an unusual "orange uniform," perhaps a rescue vest, which may link him with reports of an AWACS aircraft crash site being discovered in Macedonia on the same day. The incident was reported by numerous sources in Macedonia, including Dnevnik daily (05-18-99), TV A1 (05-17-99). The incident was also confirmed by Macedonian police officials and by a local NATO spokesman. No further details were disclosed.
May 23 An unidentified NATO aircraft was damaged by AAA fire over Leskovac on 05-23-99 around 14:30 (map). Eyewitnesses saw the aircraft leaving in the direction of Bulgaria, trailing thick black smoke from its fuselage. Tanjug report here.
June 2 According to numerous media sources, an unidentified NATO combat jet was shot down over Drazevac (map) around 06-02-99 by Yugoslav air defenses. The aircraft crashed in Pancevo. Yugoslav troops were searching for the pilot of the aircraft, who was reported to have ejected. The incident was reported by Xinhua news agency, Belgrade Radio, Croatian Radio and Television, and other sources.
June 10 FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec, announced on 06-10-99 that Navy Air Defense has downed 3 manned combat planes, 3 UAVs and several missiles during the war. It is know that one of the mentioned UAVs, an American Hunter, was shot down by FRY Navy air defenses over Boka Kotorska bay on 05-28-99 at 09:15. Video caps here. General Nebojsa Pavkovic, commander of Yugoslavia's third army responsible for military operations in Kosovo province, announced on 06-12-99 that during the conflict the 3rd Army air defenses downed 34 manned NATO aircraft and five helicopters.
June 15 General Dragoljub Ojdanic, FRY Army Chief of General Staff, announced on 06-15-99 that Combat Air Force and Air Defense units downed 61 NATO airplane, 30 unmanned aircraft, 7 helicopters and 238 cruise missiles. This number does not include NATO aircraft shot down by FRY Navy, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd armies.
September 2 New reports appear from radio amateurs who were eavesdropping on NATO frequencies during the operation Allied Force. Thus, according to Steve Douglas, a radio enthusiast from Ben Hur, Texas, some available recordings of NATO radio communications suggest that 22 fixed wing aircraft might have been lost during the war, ten of which were American. Read this interesting September 1999 report from the "Truth in Media" newsletter. I am extremely interested in locating people who may have recordings of NATO radio communications made during the period of the Allied Force, especially those directly related to aerial operations. If you have access to such information or know somebody who does, please contact me.

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 two NATO UAVs of unidentified type were downed: one - 12km south of Bogatic (map); another - 4km south of Orahovac (map), at 2600m and 4200m, respectively.
March 29 As of 03-29-99 a total of three NATO UAVs were shot down over Yugoslavia. The two UAVs mentioned above and one more was shot down on Sunday, possibly near the village of Gakovo (map). This was reported by the Voice of Russia radio station based on the information provided by the Yugoslav and Russian Ministries of Defense.
According to Russian Ministry of Defense, Americans have delivered several Hunter reconnaissance UAVs to the Balkans. Ministry's officials say that this is an indication of significant losses among NATO's UAVs and human fire correctors on the ground in Kosovo. Yugoslav security forces detained over a dozen of NATO fire correctors in Kosovo in the last two days alone. All of the detained infiltrators possessed automatic laser target designators and communications equipment.
April 7 According to Yugoslav sources, one American Hunter UAV was shot down on 04-07-99 near Pristina before midnight (map). Pentagon officially confirmed the loss of this aircraft. Related AP article here. Photos here.
April 12-14 According to the German Defense Ministry spokesman, two German reconnaissance UAVs (CL-289 drones) were lost between 04-12-99 and 04-14-99. Military experts in Bonn believe that the aircraft are in the hands of Serb troops. These types of UAVs used by German forces carried out a total of 80 reconnaissance flights over Yugoslavia and each cost 2 million marks to produce. Reuters report here. One of these CL-289s crashed on 04-12-99 over Kosovo. Two CL-289s were downed on 04-14-99 in the morning hours near Kosovo Polje (map; photos). And a fourth CL-289 was downed on the morning of 04-19-99 near the village of Jegunovce, Macedonia (on the border with Yugoslavia).
April 15 Germany lost another UAV on 04-15-99. According to the German Federal Ministry of Defense official, Peter Wichert, this was the thirst German UAV loss in the past 24 hours, causing a temporary halt in German UAV flights over Yugoslavia. Berliner Morgenpost report here. ITAR-TASS report here.
April 18 According to Air Forces Monthly magazine (July 7, 1999, p. 75), one American RQ-1A Predator UAV from the 57th Wing / 11th RS crashed in Yugoslavia on 04-18-99. According to the spokesman for SHAPE, the UAV apparently crashed during an approach to Tuzla airfield in Bosnia. Astra Tech, Defense News article here.
April 18 One Predator UAV was shot down near the town of Sonta on 04-18-99 (map).
April 30 As of 04-30-99 Yugoslavia claimed to have shot down four German CL-289 drones (see some photos here), one Hunter, two Predators, and at least one other UAV of undetermined type. Yugoslavian military officials said that 8 NATO UAVs crashed in Yugoslavian territory as of April 29th. Several more UAVs are believed to have crashed outside of Yugoslavia, in particular, one Predator UAV crashed on 04-18-99 while trying to land at Tuzla airport in Bosnia (map).
For a detailed overview map of destroyed UAVs click here. The map includes information about eight lost UAVs by 04-30-99.
May 13 Two NATO UAVs were shot down over Yugoslavia on 05-13-99. The first UAV, a German CL-289, was lost over Klokot Banja in Kosovska Vitina district at noon local time (photos here). Serbian TV showed the remains of the aircraft. Tanjug report here. NATO has officially acknowledged this loss. Another UAV was shot down over the village of Biba, near the town of Urosevac close to midnight (map). The UAV was shown on Serbian TV in the process of being shot down. The two lost UAVs were reported in the July 1999 issue of Air Forces Monthly magazine (p. 76): "May 13. NATO confirmed that it had lost two unspecified UAVs over Kosovo today and said the cause was still being investigated. Local source said one has been shot down near Pristina at 1000hrs GMT." According to western military experts, NATO is still having serious problems with establishing real-time surveillance over target areas in Yugoslavia, which is essential for targeting mobile military assets, such as military trucks, tanks, SAMs, AAAs, etc. A loss of two spy UAVs in one day is clearly a serious blow to the reconnaissance capability of NATO, which was already experiencing acute shortage of advanced UAVs.
May 14 One NATO UAV, the Predator (57th Reconnaissance Wing, 15th Squadron), was shot down and crashed into Mt. Mokra Gora, Kosovo, around 05-14-99. The loss of the Predator was confirmed by USAF Maj. Gen. Charles Wald, who also said that a French UAV (a CL-289) was also lost on the same day (05-14-99). Jane's reported: "...the French Army said that it had lost a CL-289 UAV over Kosovo on 13 May, the first actual French loss reported since the start of NATO strikes against Yugoslavia." Complete Jane's article here. Several different types of UAVs are in service with the France's armed forces, for a list of some of them click here. France operates the Canadian-made CL-289 UAV over Yugoslavia, also operated by Germany. One of the French CL-289s was also shot down earlier in the war. The mangled remains of the Predator were shown on Serbian TV. Tanjug report here. This report also mentions the two UAVs discussed above. ITAR-TASS report here.
May 16 A German UAV (another CL-289) was shot down over Kosovo on 05-16-99. The remains of the UAV were shown on Serbian TV. Video caps here. The loss was confirmed on 05-17-99 by German military officials. General Hartmut Moede said it is not known at this time if the UAV was shot down, or if it experienced mechanical problems. "Mechanical problems" were experienced by at least six German CL-289 UAVs since the beginning of the war. However, Germany admitted losing only four UAVs. On 05-19-99 Germany announced about its decision to halt flights of its reconnaissance UAVs over Yugoslavia. Luftwaffe's official representatives announced that the decision was caused by a recent loss of several UAVs.
May 20 Two NATO UAVs were shot down over Yugoslavia on 05-20-99. One of the aircraft (Predator UAV, serial number AF 95 021, 57th Wing) crashed in the village of Talinovci, near the Pristina-Urosevac road at around 4.45 p.m and another one - in the very center of Urosevac at around 6.40 p.m. (map). The two incidents were reported by Tanjug and Kosovo-Metohija Information Centre. The remains of the Predator were shown on Serbian TV. Screen caps here. Chicago Saun Times article here. AP report here. According to official Bundeswehr sources, the second UAV lost on 05-20-99 was a German drone. No model was specified, but it would be safe to assume that it was another CL-289 turbojet drone. During a 05-22-99 press-conference Bundeswehr's official spokesman, Dr. Wichert, stated: "...we will continue trying to determine the cause of the Thursday [05-20-99] loss of a drone. Yesterday, three successful UAV flights took place and the flights continue, with one more successful flight today. There will be further flights." Read the whole Bundeswehr press-conference from 05-22-99 here. The loss of the fifth German UAV was first mentioned during the 05-21-99 Bundeswehr press-conference (here).
May 20 Yet another NATO UAV was shot down on 05-20-99 near Slatina airport, approximately 9.6km southwest of Pristina at 1310 GMT (map). This is the third UAV to crash in Yugoslavia in the past 22 hours.
May 21 A NATO Hunter UAV was shot down over Buca, Kosovo on 05-21-99 at 0625 GMT (map). The incident was reported by Tanjug news agency and by NATO. This loss was confirmed by NATO spokesman Jamie Shea during a 05-23-99 press backgrounder.
May 22 Another Hunter UAV crashed on 05-22-99. Surprisingly, this loss was never mentioned in any sources, not even in Yugoslav media. The loss was reported by NATO spokesman Jamie Shea during a 05-23-99 press backgrounder. J. Shea mentioned that the UAV was recovered by NATO troops. No time or place of the incident were mentioned.
May 24 A NATO UAV crashed near Blace, Macedonia around 05-24-99 (map). The aircraft was shot down over Djeneral Jankovic in Yugoslavia. The remains of the UAV were retrieved by NATO troops. The incident was reported by Skopje's A-1 television channel. Tanjug report here.
May 26 A representative of the French Army, Col. Henry Pelissier, announced that a Crecerelle UAV was shot down by Yugoslav air defenses on 05-26-99 over Kosovo. This is the third French UAV loss officially acknowledged by France (two other lost UAVs were another Crecerelle UAV and a CL-289 drone, operated over Yugoslavia by the French Army's 7th Artillery Regiment). AFP report here. Stratfor report here. ITAR-TASS report here (in Russian). The loss of a UAV on 05-26-99 was also mentioned by Canadian Br. Gen. Dave Jurkowski during a May 27 press conference at National Defense headquarters in Canada. Jane's Defense Weekly reported that at least three American and four German UAVs have been lost over Yugoslavia.
May 28 A NATO Hunter UAV was shot down by Yugoslav Navy air defenses over Boka Kotorska bay on 05-28-99 at 09:15 (map). Video caps here.
May 29 A German UAV was shot down over Dramic, near Novi Pazar on 05-29-99 around 17:00 (map). As of 05-31-99 Germany has officially acknowledge losing seven UAVs. AFP report here.
May 29 An unidentified UAV crashed during landing near Skopje, Macedonia on 05-29-99. The incident was reported by Canadian Deputy Chief of Defense Staff, Lt. Gen. Ray Henault during a May 30 press conference at National Defense headquarters. Full transcript of the press conference available here.
May 30 A German CL-289 UAV was lost over Kosovo on 05-30-99. "Germany confirmed that it lost another CL-289 UAV, the seventh since the conflict begun. The cause was unconfirmed." (source: Air Forces Monthly, July 1999, p. 76)
June 8 An unidentified NATO UAV was lost over Yugoslavia on 06-08-99. No details are available at the moment. The loss was confirmed by NATO military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Walter Jertz during a 06-09-99 press conference in Brussels.
June 16 U.S. Army Col. Mike Howell, who oversees the Army's use of UAVs over Yugoslavia, said that Serb gunners shot down 4 out of 12 Hunter UAVs operated by the US over Yugoslavia. The US also admitted to losing 2 Predator UAVs. According to statements made by Yugoslav commanders, NATO lost 60 UAVs, while NATO admitted to losing only about 20 UAVs.
October 1 According to Adroit Systems, Inc. / UAV Forum the U.S. alone lost 15 UAVs during the operation "Allied Force", ten of them were lost due to enemy action and five - due to technical malfunctions or operator errors. This number includes 4 Predators, 4 Pioneers, and 7 Hunters. Click here for more information.
October 10 According to a June 3 New York Times article "at least 21 drones" were lost by NATO during the war in Yugoslavia. Following the publication of this article another UAV loss was officially admitted by NATO on June 8. This brings the number of officially-acknowledged UAV losses to 22 aircraft.
October 16 A July 6 article from the French Le Monde newspaper mentions that France lost a total of 5 UAVs, two CL-289s and three Crecerelles.)
Date unknown At least one Phoenix UAV (serial number ZJ384) of the British Army was shot down over Yugoslavia during the operation "Allied Force." Unofficial NATO sources report that two Phoenix UAVs were lost in the Yugoslav campaign due to enemy action. One Phoenix UAV shot down by Yugoslav air defenses is exhibited at the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum. The aircraft is in remarkably good shape with most of its components, including the sensitive electronic and optical systems, surviving the crash. For more information about the Phoenix UAV system and photos of the Phoenix downed over Yugoslavia click here.
At the moment I have no information about when, where or how this Phoenix UAV was shot down. If you can help me with that, please contact me via e-mail by clicking here.
May 28, 2000 A British "Phoenix" UAV crashed in Kosovo three miles into the buffer zone. The aircraft was quickly picked up by Yugoslav forces, which suggests that it might have been shot down. The AP article here.
June 3, 2000 A U.S. "Hunter" UAV suffered an unspecified technical malfunction and made an emergency parachute landing in Macedonia. NATO officials were negotiating with the Macedonian government to recover the aircraft. The AP article here.
________________________________________
SUMMARY:
Total official NATO UAV losses during "Allied Force"
(According to a June 3 New York Times article "at least 21 drones" were lost by NATO during the war in Yugoslavia. Following the publication of this article another UAV loss was officially admitted by NATO on June 8. This brings the number of officially-acknowledged UAV losses to 22 aircraft. A July 6 article from the French Le Monde newspaper mentions that France lost a total of 5 UAVs, two CL-289s and three Crecerelles.)
Two articles published on the official US Navy web site (http://uav.navair.navy.mil) and on Pilot Online web site report that at least 14 US UAVs were lost in Yugoslavia, including 4 Pioneer types, three of which are believed to have been lost due to fire. Some 6 Hunter UAVs were also lost: 4 due to enemy fire and 2 because of technical failures. Four more US UAVs were lost, three of which are Predator types (serial numbers: 95-3017, 95-3019, 95-3021). This brings the total number of confirmed UAV losses to 30.
Yugoslav military sources claimed 30 NATO UAV kills: 25 UAVs shot down by the 3rd Army air defenses (the 3rd Army was stationed in Kosovo under the command of Gen. Nebojsa Pavkovic), 3 UAVs were downed by Yugoslav Navy air defenses (information released by FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec), and 2 UAVs were shot down by the 2nd Army air defenses (information released by Major General Spasoje Smiljanic). This includes only those UAV that crashed in Yugoslavia.
According to some sources, a fourth Predator UAV, serial number P-016 95-3016, crashed during the Operation Allied Force in May.
• United States: 17 (3 Predators, 9 Hunters, 4 Pioneers, 1 UAV of undetermined type)
• Germany: 7 (presumably all CL-289 turbojet drones)
• France: 5 (3 Crecerelle, 2 CL-289)
• Britain: 13 (all Phoenix)
• four UAVs of undetermined origin (possibly US, German, or Italian)
for more details click here

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 a total of 18 Tomahawk cruise missiles of various modifications were destroyed or damaged by Yugoslav air defenses and did not reach their targets. These include one DAS3 model, thirteen DAS1 models, and four of undetermined model. The missiles destroyed by 17:00 03.26.99:
• 1km south of Belanovica
• 7km south of Belanovica
• 4km south-west of Belanovica
• 3km south-west of Belanovica
• 5km north of Bogatic
• 4km north of Bogatic
• 1km north of Bogatic
• 3km south of Novo Brdo
• 1km north of Novo Brdo
• 1km east of Tulare
• 1km south of Brus (self-destructed after being damaged by AAA fire)
• 3km north of Studenica (sent off course
• 7km north of Brdani (self-destructed after being damaged by AAA fire)
• 8km north of Mionica (self-destructed after being damaged by AAA fire)
• 3km north-east of Tulovo (self-destructed after being damaged by AAA fire)
• 2km north Debrc (sent off course)
• 5km south of Belanovica (self-destructed after being damaged by Yugoslav fighter aircraft.)
March 29 As of morning of 03-29-99 the official statement of the Yugoslav Ministry of Defense stated that 30 Tomahawk missiles have been destroyed or damaged. This information was confirmed by the Voice of Russia radio, based on the information from the Russian Ministry of Defense.
April 12 As of 04-12-99 Yugoslav government officially claims to have shot down 119 Tomahawk cruise missiles (this includes the missiles were not completely destroyed but damaged and sent off course.) Several days ago Russian Minister of Defense said that the number of destroyed Tomahawks was 60. Even though 119 damaged or destroyed missiles may seem like a lot, it's really under 10% of all the cruise missiles launched by NATO (the expected loss rate of cruise missiles of this type is around 7% and the nominal overall effectiveness rate is 85%). Most of Tomahawks were downed by AAA fire.
April 19 A Tomahawk cruise missile has been shot down over Sabac on 04-19-99. According to Russian Foreign Minister, Igor Ivanov, only about 40% of NATO missiles hit designated targets, 60% of which are civilian objects. More information about civilian casualties in Yugoslavia here.
May 2 As of 05-02-99 well over 200 cruise missiles have been shot down over Yugoslavia. A number of other guided weapons have been shot down as well. Some of the photos here. Remains of an unexploded AGM-130, targeting or ECM pod, detonation of an unexploded bomblet of a cluster bomb, and the remains of an AGM-88 HARM missile here. Well over 200 unexploded American-made cluster bombs and other ammunition were discovered by the Italian police and military 22 miles off the shores of Italy in the Gulf of Venice, which is not far from NATO's largest base in Italy at Aviano (map). Three Italian fishermen were seriously injured after a cluster bomb, caught by their net, exploded. Four more unexploded bombs were retrieved from the same net. A military expert, Lucco Montani (sp?), appointed by the prosecutor's office of Venice, said that the bombs are found in semi-armed condition, which significantly complicates their neutralization. The bombs are dropped by F-16, F-18, F-117A, B-1B, and B-2 bombers and fighter-bombers, which missed their targets and often were too damaged by anti-aircraft fire to risk landing with the bombs. Other sources say that a number of NATO pilots drop their bombs in the Adriatic on purpose and blame it on technical problems in order to avoid the risk of actually attacking their targets. In any case, cluster bombs are relatively inexpensive and pilots routinely dispose of them rather than risk landing with the bombs. According to the prosecutor's office of Venice there may be many more areas of the Adriatic saturated with unexploded NATO bombs, especially in the northern part of the sea, overflown by NATO planes from the Aviano base. ITAR-TASS report here, in Russian. NATO's military spokesman Maj. Gen. Walter Jertz said that NATO pilots do dispose of unused bombs by dropping them in the Adriatic and the Alpine lake of Garda (Lago di Garda, map). According to American Human Rights Watch public organization, 5-10% of cluster bombs, outlawed by international conventions but, nevertheless, used by NATO, do not explode when they are supposed to and represent a serious threat to civilians.
May 16 A Tomahawk cruise missile was shot down near the village of Vrsevic (Vrsevce) in the Lipljan municipality (Kosovo) on 05-16-99 at 11:40 local time (map). No NATO planes operated over Kosovo since the previous day, but several cruise missiles were launched. Tanjug report here.
May 24 A downed NATO missile was discovered by local residents near Tetovo in west Macedonia (about 40km to the west of Skopje) on 05-23-99 (map). The crash site was sealed off by NATO troops. Tanjug report here.
May 26 Three unidentified NATO missiles were shot down over Pozarevac, 60km east of Belgrade (map), on 05-26-99 before dawn. Tanjug report here.
May 26 Three more missiles were shot down over Smederevska Palanka on the Danube north of Belgrade (map) after 01:00. Tanjug report here.

June 7 An American B-52 strategic bomber was shot down over Yugoslavia on June 7, 1999. The loss was reported by ITAR-TASS news agency quoting the Foreign Military Review - the official publication of Russian Defense Ministry. Available eyewitness reports suggest that the aircraft was shot down between 00:12 and 00:40 hrs and crashed in the area between Slankamen and Indjija. The B-52 sustained a direct hit by a SAM and exploded in the air. The crew was killed. ITAR-TASS report here. Tanjug report here. The Foreign Military Review also confirmed the loss of one B-2A "Spirit" stealth bomber by the USAF (see below).
Additional information regarding the June 7 B-52 shoot-down indicates that the aircraft was attacked by a total of four SAMs fired by two separate launchers. The first two launches (the type of the SAM system is not known, possibly a Kub) were unsuccessful: the first missile seemed to have developed a technical problem and went astray immediately following the launch; the second SAM was distracted by a radar decoy and missed the target by about 25-50 meters. A nearby Kub-M SAM unit observed the failed attack and launched two of its own missiles. The first Kub-M SAM scored a direct hit against the B-52 and the second SAM launched by the Kub-M was triggered by its proximity fuse when it was in the kill distance of the B-52.
March 29 Five US B-1B strategic bomber have been dispatched to participate in the aggression against Yugoslavia on 03-29-99. Russian doomsayers in the Ministry of Defense always associate appearance of this aircraft anywhere near Russian borders with an open nuclear threat to Russia. It should be expected that Moscow will not be amused at B-1B's appearance over Yugoslavia. No losses so far, but one can always hope...
May 20 One American B-2A Spirit strategic stealth bomber (possibly AV-8 88-0329 Spirit of Missouri) was shot down on 05-20-99 over Surcin at 01:00 local time. The aircraft crashed near the village of Dec (Detch), Pecinci county (in the field between Simanovci and Kupinovo; map 1; map2; map 3). The flight of three B-2As (normally B-2A fly in pairs, one acting as a backup for another) entered Yugoslavian airspace from the northwest and was escorted by several fighter aircraft (B-2As are usually escorted over Yugoslavia by F-15C fighters and F-16CJ fighter/bombers in SEAD role; every mission of B-2As requires about 50 escort and support aircraft). The B-2As were detected by long-wave early-warning radars. The bombers reduced altitude and attacked its targets in Belgrade. One of the B-2As was hit by a SAM in the area of the cockpit and crashed shortly after. Crew was killed in the crash. The incident was reported by Ilustrovana Politika magazine on 06-01-99.
The loss of the B-2A "Spirit" on May 20, 1999, was confirmed by the Foreign Military Review magazine - the official publication of Russian Defense Ministry. ITAR-TASS report here. Tanjug report here. According to the latest reports, the B-2A crashed near the Obedska Bara Lake in the Dec area (villages of Simanovci and Kupinovo). An eyewitness report by a senior Yugoslav army officer indicates that the B-2A was picked up by a radar and sustained a direct hit. The aircraft caught on fire and crashed not far from where it was intercepted by the missile. Parts of the B-2A, including the forward landing gear cover and pieces of the leading edge of the wing, have been seen at the VTI (Military Technology Institute) research facility in Yugoslavia.

[Highsky]

intresting post thnx.

[gmi serbia]

intresting post thnx.
Thank you, I have many lot of that. This is thrue but meny people on this world don't see that becouse NATO don't want that and then NATO bobing Radio Televizija Srbije TV! and want to HIDE losses.
Sorry becouse my english.
Bye

[Highsky]

Thank you, I have many lot of that. This is thrue but meny people on this world don't see that becouse NATO don't want that and then NATO bobing Radio Televizija Srbije TV! and want to HIDE losses.
Sorry becouse my english.
Bye
You are right it's like the hidding of the killed us soldiers in iraq they say its about 2230 but Iraqis belive is much higher.it they show their loses , then they could answer the public opinion in teir counterys.

[gmi serbia]

You are right it's like the hidding of the killed us soldiers in iraq they say its about 2230 but Iraqis belive is much higher.it they show their loses , then they could answer the public opinion in teir counterys.
Yes they HIDE all losses. Do you now you never see on CNN US Mortuary Box from Iraq becouse America is STOP and give embargo on that!
Something like Serbia but they in Serbia can't enter and they send only planes and some planes and pilot's losses forever!

[Highsky]

Yes they HIDE all losses. Do you now you never see on CNN US Mortuary Box from Iraq becouse America is STOP and give embargo on that!
Something like Serbia but they in Serbia can't enter and they send only planes and some planes and pilot's losses forever!

If Israel or Usa attacks Iran what do you guess about both side losses?

[gmi serbia]

If Israel or Usa attacks Iran what do you guess about both side losses?
Oh friend my english is not good for that, I can't tellyou becouse i don't now language good but if Iran doing something like that ( like Serbs ) who now. Not all is in weapon something is in hearth and head.

Look text and pics!

In Serbia NATO and American's shot down...only civilian's (Serbian and Albanian), factories, road's, bridge's....
Military? only models! Thake that:

Serb Fool NATO Dummies
"LONDON, June 24 - Hundreds of Serb dummies managed to fool the NATO brass dummies into believing they were bombing hundreds of Serbian tanks and artillery. Close to the war's end, NATO claimed that it had destroyed about 60% of the Yugoslav Army's artillery and about 40% of its main battle tanks.
Yet when the armistice took effect after June 10, "NATO dropped thousands of bombs on dummy roads, bridges and soldiers... and hit only 13 real Serb tanks," the London Times, no friend of the Serbs, reported in a front page story today (see http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/page....html?1175281).
"NATO'S 79-day bombing campaign against Yugoslavia, which involved thousands of sorties and some of the most sophisticated precision weapons, succeeded in damaging only 13 of the Serbs' 300 battle tanks in Kosovo, despite alliance claims of large-scale destruction of Belgrade's heavy armor," the Times defense editor, Michael Evans, reported from Pristina.
With Nato's Kosovo Force (KFOR) now spread out into every area of the province, troops from all the different nationalities taking part in the peacekeeping operation have been searching for destroyed or damaged tanks and artillery. They have, so far, found just three damaged T55 tanks left behind in Kosovo. "What we have found is a huge number of dummy tanks and artillery," one KFOR source told the London Times.
The Yugoslav Army used well-practiced Russian camouflage techniques which involved placing dummies around the countryside, some of them next to dummy bridges with strips of black plastic sheeting across fields as fake roads to delude NATO bombers into thinking they had a prime target to hit. "When you're travelling at 500mph at 15,000ft, it is easy to be fooled," another KFOR source told the Times. --- TiM Ed.: Funny how the chief "lie and deny" NATO spokesmen, Jamie Shea and Gen. Walter Jertz, neglected to tell us that during the air campaign!? --- When the Serbs finally withdrew from the province, at least 250 tanks were counted out, as well as 450 armored personnel carriers and 600 artillery and mortar pieces.
Which is why some NATO officials, the Times said, are baffled about why Slobodan Milosevic did surrender, given that his army was practically intact. --- TiM Ed.: Wrong question. Why did he bother to fight? That's what informed people should have wondered.
The writing had been on the wall for several years that Milosevic would give up Kosovo. We first wrote about it in 1995, and twice last year (see the "Green Interstate," http://www.truthinmedia.org/Bulletins/tim95-11.html, and this writer's two Washington Times columns - http://www.truthinmedia.org/Columns/wt10-25.htm and http://www.truthinmedia.org/Columns/wt7-05(Kosovo).htm.
(source: Truth in Media, 1999)
________________________________________


“M-18” - the Serb “Trojan Horse”According to the western reports at the time (e.g., the London Times, June 24), the Serb military deployed various decoys and camouflage techniques supposedly learned from the Soviets. But a recent article by a Serb engineer, Mato Siladic in the Yugoslav “Aeromagazine,” a magazine published by and for the flying enthusiasts and aeronautical modelers, revealed additional details of how the Serb civilians, not the Yugoslav Air Force, came with the idea which preserved the Serb military’s most valuable flying assets - the MiG 29s. And how these Serb patriots built them while NATO bombs were raining all around them.
You can check out at our Web site a special album of photographs by Djordje Ivanov, which illustrate the various phases of construction and deployment of the MiG-29 decoys, which the Serb aeronautical enthusiasts jokingly dubbed the “M-18” - http://www.truthinmedia.org/Kosovo/W...os-war-10.html.
But the proof is in the pudding, as they say. The ultimate success of this enterprising Serb civilian contribution to their country’s defense had to be proven in combat. And it was. About 90% of all the decoys built by the “M-18” team were destroyed by NATO’s bombs.
“Under normal circumstances, every designer-modeler would have loved to nurture and protect his babies,” said Radoje Glagojevic, one of the “M-18” designers. “(But in this case), we wanted the NATO aggressors to destroy as many of them as possible.” Blagojevic is a modeler from Nova Pazova, a small town about 20 miles northwest of Belgrade, close to the Batajnica military airport, which was practically a nightly target of NATO bombs during its 11-week air campaign.
Here are some excerpts from the article “Aeromagazine,” in our translation from Serbian:
“It is widely known that… the most advanced aircraft of the Yugoslav Air Force are the MiG-29 fighters which were procured 12 years ago. It is also no secret, and the NATO planners in Brussels knew it very well, that we bought only one squadron of MiG-29s - 14 one-seaters, and two two-seaters. At the time of the NATO alliance’s aggression on our country, these MiGs were our only aircraft which could have realistically confronted the most advanced attacking airplanes.
But considering that even on the first night, the NATO aggressors engaged 400-450 fighter aircraft vs. a dozen or so Yugoslav MiGs, the realistic advantage was about 30-to-1 in favor of the enemy. As the air campaign continued, with every passing day such a ratio was becoming less favorable for us. […]
So given such an imbalance in air power, we were forced to create our own ‘Trojan Horse”…
Djordje Ivanov, a pilot, painter and cartoonist, was actually the first to come up with the idea of building MiG-29 decoys. ‘We had to find a way to preserve our aircraft,’ he says. ‘Our solution was - moving constantly both the decoys and the real airplanes, so that the decoys become true shadows of real aircraft. We made the decoys ‘come to life’ mechanically and electronically. We imitated the its engines; we artificially created smoke from burning kerosene in ‘smoke boxes;’ the metal skin created an appropriate radar image… Our team was named ‘M-18,’ as the(alphabetical) follow-on to the L-18 designation which the Yugoslav MiG-29s have’.”
Eventually, members of the ‘Nova Pazova’ aeronautical modeling club, such as Blagojevic, pitched in with their own ideas and ‘labor of love’ to try to help their country’s war effort. Their ultimate gratification came on June 12. That’s when 11 Yugoslav MiG-29s sprouted their wings and took off from Pristina’s Slatina airport, to the utter shock and amazement of the NATO brass and the western media. Here’s how Col. David Hackworth put it in his June 15 nationally syndicated column (see S99-111, "Peace" 5, Item 5, June 18):
“After all those bombs and missiles and all of NATO's glowing reports about battle damage inflicted on the non-white-flag-waving Serbian Army, 11 MiG fighters rose from an air base in Kosovo on the day the peace deal was final. They wagged their perfect, unruffled wings and headed north. After such a pummeling, how could 11 jet fighters, almost more than Great Britain used in the war, remain unscathed?
Eventually, the analysts will tell us the final score.”
Well, now we know how it was done. A bunch of Serb MiG-29 dummies fooled a bunch of NATO brass dummies with an “M-18,” a Serb “Trojan Horse,” created by a pilot-painter and cartoonist, and a bunch of Nova Pazova aeronautical enthusiasts and modelers. Homo Sapiens wins. Technology loses. A great victory of human spirit; a sad day for the “death merchants.”
(source: Truth in Media, by Bob Djurjevic et ed., Issue S99-131, "Peace" 25, July 31, 1999, photos by Djordje Ivanov)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8849/top15sb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7894/mig29kit11cv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3885/mig29kit44wx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2969/mig29kit62ni.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7127/mig29kit87dq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[iCQ]

I dont know what kind of culture/religion you gotto have to feel the urge to "hide your fallen soldiers". ;)

[gmi serbia]

I dont know what kind of culture/religion you gotto have to feel the urge to "hide your fallen soldiers". ;)
think about that

[iCQ]

Done that, been there... conclusion: a sad story (again, history repeats itself once more).

[gmi serbia]

Done that, been there... conclusion: a sad story (again, history repeats itself once more).
what you mean, I don't understand good becouse my englis, sorry.

[GER_Mark]

March 26 At least one German "Tornado IDS" ground attack aircraft was lost sometime between 22:00 03.24.99 and 17:00 03.26.99 (but most likely in the first wave of attacks). This loss was confirmed by Russian military intelligence and Serbs said that they have found the aircraft's crash site. The "Tornado" was shot down 12km south of Pancevo (map) and was completely destroyed. Crew of two is dead. The chairman of NATO's military committee, Gen. Klaus Naumann denied this report.
March 27 Another German "Tornado" was shot down on 03-29-99, as reported by Yugoslav news agency Tanjug. The pilots are said to have ejected. This report may be related to the incident when a German Tornado attack aircraft was shot down and crashed on 03-27-99 around 01:00 in the vicinity of the village Konjevici (Mt. Maljen), near Cacak. The crew of the Tornado ejected and was captured by Serb forces. A detailed account of the incident was published in Vojska magazine (issue 349, 04-04-99, p. 6). You can read the article here (in Serbian).



NO LOL !

No tornado was missing, its just war propaganda, just like the iraqi guy who was claiming the american defeat in Baghdad while you could see american tanks in background !

[gmi serbia]

B-2a shot down
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2569/b2ashotdovn200519996ez.gif (http://imageshack.us)

and map's where some plain shot down

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9270/map00059jd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5653/map00064os.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1474/map00078dd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4321/map00151sa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4585/map00354co.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/9595/map00456hp.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2458/map00535tp.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3104/map00576uh.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[GER_Mark]

Stop posting such BS.

I'd like to know how they shot down a tornado on mach 1.2 in 50 meters height , crossing the mountains with an old ww2 aa gun !

[gmi serbia]

NO LOL !

No tornado was missing, its just war propaganda, just like the iraqi guy who was claiming the american defeat in Baghdad while you could see american tanks in background !

Do you know somethin about 1999. war? you be here in Serbia? No, you seat in your chair, do you know why you don't know some think's? do you realy mean to you see think's about that look to your TV??or your news? NO, do you know why? it is so many death soldier, you are occupant! Propaganda and lies is CNN, BBC,...do you know why? think abot that. I give you throuth about my country, you belive or not!
But read all text slow and all!

[gmi serbia]

crossing the mountains with an old ww2 aa gun !
Your TV tell you that?? hahaha
what you know abot military, do you mean only west have a weapon?? hahaha
come again. Museum in Srbia ( air force) is lot of part's....
question soldier's....
But you must read and read and study....

[GER_Mark]

OMG !
Germany only used 4 Tornados, wich all returned savely and nothing and nobody wasmissing, exept 200 HARM missiles wich killed enemy SAM battery's.

Do you have some pictures of the shot down planes ? (exept the F-117)

[gmi serbia]

List of NATO aircraft damaged and/or downed during the aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
March 24 to April 23, 1999
This table was compiled by the Freedom Fighters organization. Their e-mail addresses pavkens@EUnet.yu and drcvetic@EUnet.yu Please contact them if you have any information about new NATO losses or if you can add anything to the information already contained in this table. I (Venik) and the Freedom Fighters will try to update this table as frequently as possible.

Copyright © 1999 Freedom Fighters. All Rights Reserved

No. Day Time Location Type of aircraft/Remarks
1. 24.03. 20:20 Mt. Cicavica
2. 20:35 near Titel NATO plane that was hit with an air to air missile fired by MiG-29 pilot Nebojsa Nikolic. Airplane crashed several minutes later
3. 20:18 Mt. Jastrebac German Tornado
4. near Lazarevac One NATO aircraft hit with an AA missile fired by a pilot Slobodan Peric. Further destiny of the plane is not known
5. 21:30 Kosovo
6. 25.03. 0:30 Adriatic sea According to Greek military sources, there were two registered "MAYDAY" calls from NATO aircraft
7.
8. 1:00 airfield Rajlovac, Sarajevo Emergency landing of one F-15 spewing thick, white smoke
9. 23:00 2 F/A-18 Hornets that crashed 11km south of Ruma. According to reports, at least one was Canadian
10. 23:10
11. 23:30 area between Pristina and Podujevo
12. around 23:30 Mt. Fruska Gora One aircraft shot down (according to reports, F-117A) who's pilot ejected and was captured in the village Krusedol. He was then taken to the nearest police station
13. Mt. Fruska Gora One German Tornado shot down. Crew ejected. Pilot, male was killed while the female navigator was captured in the village Remeta and taken to the same police station as the pilot from the alleged F-117
14. 26.03. 17:20 village Donja Trnova, 15km southwest of Bijeljina, Republic of Srpska American F-15E. Crew was killed. The plane was shot down by a MiG-21.
15. 27.03. around 1:00 Mt. Maljen German Tornado. Crew ejected and landed in the vicinity of the village Konjevici, near Cacak, where they were captured
16. near Pec
17. around 3:00 area between Vrutak and Kremna, near Uzice
18. around 3:20 area between Vrutak and Kremna, near Uzice SFOR helicopter with 22 soldiers on board. After a short gunfight with the Yugoslav infantry unit, helicopter was destroyed by Strela-1M mobile SAM. No survivors.
19. north of Sombor One NATO airplane hit. No further information
20. before morning Ion sea According to Greek military sources, there were three registered "MAYDAY" messages. One from Dutch F-16, one from American F-15 and a third from one French aircraft (probably Mirage 2000)
21.
22.
23. 15:50 Djeneral Jankovic, near Macedonian border Canadian F/A-18 Hornet. Plane crashed on the Macedonian territory
24. around 17:00 near Budjanovci
25. 20:55 Budjanovci F-117A, serial number HO AF 82/806. Pilot Cpt. Ken 'Wiz' Dwelle was rescued, according to NATO. Aircraft shot down by Col. Gvozden Djukic's air defense unit
26. 22:30 Macedonian border Rescue helicopter shot down
27. 28.03. 2:50 Zabrdje, near Bijeljina Most probably an American F-15. Pilot was killed. Some sources say that it was in fact an F-117!
28. 3:00 near Bijeljina SFOR helicopter HH-60 Pave Hawk with 12 soldiers on board. Only two crew members survived
29. Loznica region Pilot ejected
30. 3:00 Gornji Milanovac Pilot ejected and captured shortly after
31. 16:00 Bijeljina Aircraft hit over Yugoslavia crashed in Bosnia.
32. 22:30 Macedonian border Rescue helicopter shot down
33. 23:50 Pristina Pilot killed
34. 23:55 Mt. Pastrik, near Prizrena Aircraft crashed in Macedonia
35. 29.03. 3:00 village Gakovo, near Sombor Pilot ejected and reportedly escaped to Hungary
36. 1:30 village Stojna, 14km from Pale, Republic of Srpska Some sources say that it was either F-15 or F-16, American. Pilot ejected but found dead later on. His neck was broken
37. 30.03. around 1:00 near Virpazar British Harrier. Pilot ejected but was soon captured
38. around 1:00 near Virpazar With the second missile, one aircraft that was in Harrier's escort was hit. Most probably an American F-16 that was hit over Montenegro. His pilot turned the airplane back to Italy but flying above the Adriatic, lost altitude and crashed near several NATO vessels. The pilot was picked up by a French rescue unit
39. 2:30 Mt. Cer Aircraft hit over Cer mountain crashed in Bosnia. According to the reports, it was a German Tornado. Crew ejected
40. 8:00 Surcin
41. 16:30 near Vranje According to reports, Tornado aircraft. Crew ejected and landed in the area between two villages, on the road to Kriva Feja
42. 23:30 Prizren Airplane crashed on Mt. Sara (Sar planina). According to information, it was a British Tornado. Crew ejected and landed onto a KLA controlled territory. They were escorted by the KLA to the Albanian border and handed to NATO representatives
43. before midnight Obla Glava, near Aleksinac UAV
44. 31.03. evening near Gnjilane F-117 crashed in Macedonia after being hit
45. 18:00 Rescue helicopter with 20 commandos on board
46. Sirig, north of Novi Sad German Tornado. Crew ejected and captured shortly after that
47. 22:30 Mt. Tara
48. 22:45 Mt. Tara NATO rescue helicopter CH-53 with 25 commandos. Helicopter shot down by Strela-2M portable SAM. No survivors
49. 01.04. 1:00 Mt. Tara NATO (possibly SFOR) helicopter CH-53 Stallion with 25 crew members. Helicopter shot dwon by Strela-2M portable SAM. No survivors
50. 3:05 airfield Pleso, Zagreb Crash-landing of one damaged F-117A
51. 7:00 Kosovo Aircraft hit over Kosovo crashed into suburban area of Skopje
52. 03.04. 19:30 Banja Luka region One F-16 seen over the town spewing thick, black smoke
53. 19:45 Novi Sad Aircraft damaged during the attack on Novi Sad's bridge "Most Slobode". Airplane crashed near Stara Pazova. Pilot captured
54. 04.04. before midnight near Uzice One NATO aircraft damaged (most probably F/A-18 Hornet). Aircraft dropped two full fuel tanks and immediately after that, touched with one of its wings a power line. It is not known whether the plane crashed or not
55. 05.04. 2:20 Obrenovac
56. 3:03 Zlatibor
57. evening between Dolovo and Banatsko Novo Selo, near Pancevo Aircraft downed by Lt.Col. Zoran Damnjanovic's air defense unit. There are some indications that another plane was shot down as well
58. 21:00 Mt. Fruska Gora One NATO plane downed. Pilot ejected near 'Pobeda' factory and was soon captured. Most likely F-117A
59. 20:00 Novi Sad During the attack on Novi Sad's "Zezelj" bridge, one German Tornado was shot down. Crew ejected and was captured shortly after
60. 06.04. 2:30 Aleksinac Dutch F-16
61. 4:20 Mt. Fruska Gora During the attack on Crveni Cot TV tower, one plane was downed. Pilot ejected and landed in the vicinity of village Remete. There is information suggesting that it was an F-117
62. after midnight Pristina NATO plane was hit while over the town. Aircraft crashed on Mt. Sara, near Skopje
63. 5:00 south of Fruska Gora Two NATO rescue helicopters with soldiers on board
64.
65. after midnight village Svinjare, near Kosovska Mitrovica
66. 11:10 Mt. Skopska Crna Gora Two NATO SAR helicopters with 40 commandos on board. No survivors
67.
68. after midnight Yugoslav-Albanian border (Montenegro) NATO helicopter with 20 soldiers and one rescued pilot on board. No survivors
69. around 22:00 Hill Zabucje, Uzice One aircraft hit and damaged
70. 23:30 Vozdovac, Belgrade Dogfight between Yugoslav Mig-21 and US F-15. F-15 crashed near Avala mountain. Confirmed by an eyewitness
71. 07.04. 0:00 near Pristina One NATO aircraft hit which headed in flames toward Macedonia. Near Skopska Crna Gora, one plane was seen in flames and after that, a powerful explosion was heard with a huge blast. It is assumed that the aircraft crashed
72. 2:00 Podgorica French Mirage 2000. Missile missed but pilot ejected anyway
73. 22:30 Kosovo Airplane hit over Kosovo crashed near Skopje
74. before midnight near Pristina American UAV Hunter shot down by Lt.Col. Brajan Vukicevic's air defense unit
75. before midnight Ljig
76. before midnight near Novi Sad Belgian F-16B. 42 year old pilot and 28 years old female co-pilot captured. Plane was shot down by Aleksandar Sunjka with 20mm AAA
77. 08.04. after midnight near Nis German Tornado. Crew captured
78. 12:40 Kosovo Aircraft crashed near Skopje
79. 09.04. 23:30 Ivanovo, near Belgrade
80. 10.04. 2:00 Batajnica NATO rescue helicopter shot down ad crashed into Danube
81. 15:45 Suva Reka region Crashed near Kumanovo
82. before midnight near Nis
83. 11.04. 0:12 Backi Brestovac, near Crvenka German. Most probably Tornado
84. 1:00 between Sombor and Odzaci An unidentified NATO aircraft was shot down by two radar-guided Kub SAMs * (may be the same as the above entry)
85. 11:20 Kosovo NATO aircraft shot down by Major Stojan Simijonovic's air defense unit. Plane crashed in Macedonia
86. 12.04. 0:21 between Belgrade and Pancevo
87. 21:30 village Osmaci, near Tuzla British Sea Harrier. Pilot killed. Aircraft was hit over Zrenjanin, where it jettisoned its fuel tanks
88. before midnight Kosovo German UAV CL-289
89. 13.04. after midnight near Batajnica airfield
90. after midnight Jabuka, north of Pancevo
91. 1:00 Olujci
92. after midnight near Srbinje (ex Foca), Bosnia Pilot killed
93. after midnight village Kadijina Cesma, near Tuzla
94. after midnight Bela Crkva, near Vrsac Probably Harrier
95. 23:00 Jabuka road, Pancevo
96. 14.04. after midnight Kosovo Polje German UAV CL-289
97. 0:10 Priboj
98. morning Kosovo German UAV CL-289
99. after midnight Yugoslav-Romanian border Two fuel tanks and several other F-15 parts found. No further information
100. 9:00 Crashed in Lopare, near Tuzla
101. 10:00* Sirig, north of Novi Sad Aircraft crashed near Kamendin agronomic well. Pilot ejected and captured
102. 10:05* near Belgrade
103. 11:50 Crashed near Mesaric
104. 12:00 Debrca, Vladimirci district
105. 15.04. 0:00 Krusevac F-16
106. 1:42 Dobovac, near Uzice
107. 1:45 Avala mountain, south of Belgrade Confirmed by an eyewitness
108. 1:59 Dobovac, near Uzice
109. 2:00 Kula
110. 2:00 near Priboj
111. 3:00 Mt. Bjelasnica, Bosnia
112. 12:43 Vladimirci, near Sabac
113. 19:30 Podgorica Tornado. Airplane shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic, with L70 Bofors. Aircraft crashed into Lake Skadar. According to some other info, plane was shot own by Lt. Goran Ratkovic
114. 19:35 Podgorica French Mirage 2000. Airplane shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic, with L70 Bofors. Plane crashed on Rumija mountain. Pilot ejected and captured shortly after. According to some other info, plane was shot own by Lt. Goran Ratkovic
115. 19:45 near Podgorica One NATO aircraft shot down by soldier Predrag Dzonic with Strela-2M portable SAM. Pilot ejected and landed in the village of Kruse where he was captured
116. 23:30 airfield Petrovec, Skopje Crash-landing of one heavily damaged A-10. Plane was hit with two portable SAMs
117. 16.04. 17:30 southern Kosovo A-10 shot down by soldier Dragan Petrovic with portable SAM. Plane crashed on Macedonian territory, near the border post Debelde
118. 19:51 Podgorica Tornado
119. 22:45 New Belgrade (Novi Beograd)
120. 23:11 Pancevo
121. 23:15 Podgorica French Mirage 2000
122. 17.04. 3:17 Mt. Skopska Crna Gora, Macedonia British Sea Harrier
123. 11:00 Milosev Do, near Prijepolja Probably British Sea Harrier
124. 14:30 Urosevac Airplane crashed 4 km into Macedonian territory, near the village Tanusevci. Pilot killed
125. 17:08 Bogatic One Tornado crashed on Fruska Gora mountain
126. 22:10 Cerevic, Fruska Gora Several structural parts of Tornado aircraft were found. Plane was hit and damaged and headed in flames, while spewing thick, black smoke toward Croatian airspace, where it probably crashed
127. 22:10 Loznica Aircraft hit with two missiles crashed in Bosnia
128. 23:30 near Valjevo One aircraft hit with Strela-2M portable SAM. Immediately after that, plane jettisoned its fuel tanks and headed for Ljubovija. Several minutes later, a powerful explosion was heard. Aircraft crashed near Bratunac, Bosnia. Crash confirmed by Yugoslav border patrol and local villagers
129. 18.04. 0:50 Mountain Skopska Crna Gora, Macedonia One US A-10 crashed after being hit over Kosovo
130. 0:51 airfield Petrovec, Skopje Crash landing of one heavily damaged A-10 Thunderbolt II
131. 0:55 Kosovska Mitrovica
132. 2:00 Pristina UAV
133. around 3:00 Mt. Povlen One Tornado was damaged. Aircraft headed toward Sarajevo airfield but crashed in the village Crvica, near Skelani, in the Republic of Srpska
134. 16:10 Mt. Cicevica, near Pristina Blew up while airborne. Most probably an F-16
135. 16:15 Mt. Cicevica, near Pristina Blew up while airborne
136. 19:00 near Pristina Plane crashed on Mt. Cicavica
137. before midnight near Tuzla American UAV Predator
138. 22:30 Jelovski Kamen, near Tetovo Tornado
139. 23:00 airfield Rajlovac, Sarajevo Crash-landing of one Danish F-16. Plane was damaged by a SAM
140. 19.04. after midnight village Jegunovce, near Tetovo German UAV CL-289
141. 10:30 Tetovo, Macedonia Tornado
142. 14:01 Kumanovo, Macedonia
143. Smederevo During the attack on the bridge in Smederevo, one aircraft shot down by a SAM
144. 23:00 Mt. Veliki Jastrebac
145. 23:30 Mt. Veliki Jastrebac NATO helicopter with rescue troops
146. 23:15 Urosevac
147. 20.04. 2:30 Mt. Rudnik, Topola
148. 3:15 Mt. Rudnik, village Cumic
149. 19:00 Gornje Stanovce, near Vucitrn UAV
150. 23:00 near Vranje
151. 23:30 Mt. Jastrebac Rescue helicopter
152. 23:50 near Beocin Two F-15 fuel tanks found filled with bullet holes. Aircraft crashed in the area between Vukovar and Osijek
153. 21.04. 16:00 Mt. Fruska Gora One NATO plane damaged. Several parts were found. Aircraft crashed in Croatia
154. 23:40 Vozdovac, Belgrade Hit with several 30mm AAA Praga rounds. Crashed into Lipovica forrest (Lipovacka suma) Confirmed by an eyewitness
155. 22.04. 0:43 Orlovaca Rescue helicopter
156. 1:20 Lipovica, near Belgrade Rescue helicopter. Crew killed, helicopter captured
157. Sonta, near Apatin American UAV Predator
158. 18:00 Kursumlija Wreckage found in town's vicinity
159. 18:05 Kursumlija Wreckage found in Lebane region
160. 23.04. 2:28 Makis, Belgrade
161. 4:20 area between Surcin and Jakovo
162. 4:40 Lipovica, near Belgrade Rescue helicopter
163. 15:00 near Pristina One NATO plane damaged. Several parts were found on the scene. While spewing thick, white smoke, aircraft headed for Albania where it most probably crashed
164. 15:10 Orlane, 15km northeast of Pristina
This table was compiled by the Freedom Fighters organization. Their e-mail addresses pavkens@EUnet.yu and drcvetic@EUnet.yu Please contact them if you have any information about new NATO losses or if you can add anything to the information already contained in this table. I (Venik) and the Freedom Fighters will try to update this table as frequently as possible.

Copyright © 1999 F

[gmi serbia]

Stop posting such BS.

I'd like to know how they shot down a tornado on mach 1.2 in 50 meters height , crossing the mountains with an old ww2 aa gun !
Yes my friend Serbia shot down F-117 with WW2 gun! hahaha

[gmi serbia]

April 24 to May 23, 1999
This table was compiled by the Freedom Fighters organization. Their e-mail addresses pavkens@EUnet.yu and drcvetic@EUnet.yu Please contact them if you have any information about new NATO losses or if you can add anything to the information already contained in this table. I (Venik) and the Freedom Fighters will try to update this table as frequently as possible.

Copyright © 1999 Freedom Fighters. All Rights Reserved


No. Day Time Location Type of aircraft/Remarks
165. 24.04. 3:55 Mt. Fruska Gora
166. 4:40 Pristina
167. 4:40 Dimitrovgrad
168. 14:45 Pristina Crashed near the village of Businje
169. 17:25 southern Serbia One F/A-18 Hornet shot down that came from Bulgarian airspace by soldier Radisa Zdravkovic with Strela-2M portable SAM. Pilot ejected
170. 17:27 Only two minues after the first hit, soldier Radisa Zdravkovic shot down another NATO aircraft coming from Bulgarian airspace, this time British Harrier, again with Strela-2M portable SAM. Pilot ejected
171. 18:05 near Pristina Crashed near Laplje Selo
172. Boka Kotorska UAV
173. Mt. Kukavica, near Leskovac Pilot captured
174. 25.04. after midnight near Pristina Crashed near the village of Lipovica
175. 14:38 Novi Sad
176. Kosovo One AH-64 Apache captured by Yugoslav army troops
177. 26.04. 0:37 mountain Zlatibor
178. 4:30 Zenica, Bosnia Harrier (probably British)
179. 4:45 Macedonia
180. 12:50 Novi Sad One NATO aircraft hit and damaged while in low level flight. Immediately after that, a thick black smoke started spewing out of it. Plane crashed near Osijek, Croatia
181. 22:00 40 km northeast of Tirana AH-64 Apache. Crew escaped uninjured. Helicopter was probably hit during the attack on Kosare border post
182. Kumodraz, near Belgrade During the attack on business center "Usce", one aircraft was shot down by Aleksandar Ruzic with Strela-2M missile (Lt.Col. Momir Ivkovic's air defense unit)
183. 23:30 Novi Sad
184. 27.04. 1:45 Mt. Fruska Gora One damaged airplane dropped its payload near Croatian village Palaca, not far from Osijek
185. 10:57 near airfield Petrovec, Skopje
186. around 17:00 near Prokuplje Pilot ejected and landed in the woods of Mt. Pasjaca, south of Prokuplje. Wreckage of the plane was found in the Jovine Livade region, on Mt. Pasjaca
187. 17:15 Beli Kamen, near Prokuplje Wreckage found on the hill near Berilje
188. Mt. Zlatibor region Pilot ejected
189. 22:45 Pristina AH-64 Apache helicopter
190. 28.04. around 14:00 near Podgorica Pilot ejected
191. around 14:30 near Berane
192. around midnight village Norovo, near Krusevo, Macedonia Crew of two ejected and landed on top of the trees. Later on, NATO rescue unit picked them up
193. afternoon region between villages of Velika Sabanta and Gornja Pcelica One NATO plane hit and damaged while in low level flight. Aircraft dropped its payload and headed for Crni Vrh. No further information
194. 29.04. 0:48 Topcider, Belgrade
195. 0:56 Podgorica
196. region of Macedonian-Albanian border town Debar Plane crashed in Albania
197. around 1:00 hill Vodno, near Skopje Plane crashed in the woods of Mt. Vedro, near Skopje
198. around 1:40 near Zemun According to stories of eyewitnesses, two NATO aircraft were shot down
199.
200. 11:15 Samokov, 40 km southwest of Skopje According to stories of eyewitnesses, the crew of two was found carbonized
201. 16:08 Makis, Belgrade One aircraft hit with Strela-1M missile launched by G.D. Aircraft started spewing black smoke only to crash several moments later in swamps near Jabuka (Jabucki Rit)
202. 16:35 Pancevo
203. village Bistrica, near Veles, Macedonia According to eyewitnesses, one plane, spewing black smoke, dropped two missiles and headed behind the mountain. Immediately after that, a powerful explosion was heard from that direction so it is assumed that the plane crashed
204. 22:40 Avala mountain, south of Belgrade
205. 23:57 Simanovci, northeast of Belgrade Plane crashed in Kupinovo
206. 30.04. around 23:15 Grocka, 20 km southeast of Belgrade According to eyewitnesses, there was also a parachute seen
206.a An F-117A of the 49th FW was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM, "...causing loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany." (source: Air Force Monthly, July 1999, p. 75)
207. 01.05. 11:50 Zvornik
208. 14:15 Adriatic sea, 40 km from Brindisi American USMC AV-8B. Pilot ejected and was soon rescued
209. vicinity of Uzice Two aircraft that were shot down and crashed somewhere in the Republic of Srpska. One aircraft was seen to be hit (probably by a SAM) and after that started spewing black smoke, heading toward Bosnian airspace. Several eyewitnesses reported
210.
211. 02.05. around 2:05 village Nakucani, southwest of Sabac American F-16CG. Pilot rescued, according to NATO. Aircraft downed by Col. Gvozden Djukic's air defense unit
212. around 4:00 village Nakucani Two NATO helicopters with rescue troops
213.
214. around 12:00 southern Kosovo A-10 Thunderbolt II. Plane was shot down by Cpt. Vojislav Krstovic (Lt.Col. Brajan Vukicevic's air defense unit) with portable SAM. Several structural parts were found (engine cowling and armor plates) and televised on national TV. Wreckage of the plane was found near Tetovo, in Macedonia
215. 16:50 airfield Petrovec, Skopje Crash landing of one heavily damaged A-10
216. 18:00 near airfield Petrovec Crash-landing of one A-10. Many eyewitnesses reported that the aircraft appeared to have serious damage to one of its engines (right engine relative to the pilot) and a wing. Several missiles were still attached to the underwing pylons, creating a danger of explosion and a panic among local residents. The pilot of the aircraft was reported to have been injured. Some 40 minutes after the crash, the aircraft was towed by a NATO vehicle to the Petrovec airport
217. 12:15 Umka, near Belgrade According to eyewitnesses, two parachutes seen in the sky. From reliable sources, one pilot, an American, around 30-years old was captured in Mostanica, after 2 hours of pursuit. He was on a recon mission to photograph a bridge in Ostruznica
218. 12:20
219. 03.05. 21:45 Novi Sad During the attack on Novi Sad TV, one aircraft was hit and damaged. Shortly after that, a thick, black smoke started spewing out of it so it is assumed that the plane crashed in the vicinity
220. 23:45 Lake Ohrid, Macedonia According to eyewitnesses, one aircraft crashed in Lake Ohrid. NATO forces later on, pulled the wreckage out of the water
221. 04.05. 2:10 airbase in Italy Crash landing of one heavily damaged F-117A Night Hawk. Later on, NATO's joint comission concluded that the plane is damaged beyond repair, hence recalled from active service
222. 21:50 Srbinje (ex Foca), Republic of Srpska
223. 23:10 Pristina A-10 Thunderbolt II
224. 05.05. 1:30 Bajina Basta One plane hit and damaged. Aircraft crashed on Bosnian territory
225. morning 75 km northeast of Tirana AH-64 Apache. Pilot and gunner killed. NATO's classified report cited a SAM hit as a possible reason for the crash
226. 06.05. before midnight Presevo UAV. Remains found in the area between Bujanovac and Presevo
227. 07.05. 2:09 Skopje, Macedonia
228. 14:30 Novi Sad One NATO aircraft during the attack on Iriski Venac. Plane continued its flight toward Sabac, spewing black smoke. It was confirmed later that the plane crashed in the vicinity of Sabac
229. between
3:43 and 4:30 area around Nis One plane crashed in the vicinity of Svrljig
230. One plane crashed near Sicevo
231. One plane crashed in the village of Malca
232. One plane crashed near Pirot
233. One plane crashed near Leskovac. Reports say that captured pilot was Canadian (probably CF-18 Hornet)
234. 08.05. around 0:30 area between Kacarevo, Padina and Vladimirovac, north of Pancevo One aircraft (according to sources, an F-16) was shot down by a Kub or Neva missile. Pilot probably ejected because there was an intensive search by Yugoslav military during the night and on the next morning
235. 3:45 Banjica, Belgrade
236. airfield Petrovec, Skopje Heavily damaged B-2A, after a direct hit by Yugoslav air defense tried to crash-land but 'cut off' a mountain top instead and exploded
237. 14:00 Nis After the attack on the bridge in the center of Nis, one aircraft was shot down and crashed on Suva mountain
238. evening Gornji Milanovac UAV shot down
239. 10.05. 23:05 Avala mountain, Belgrade Aircraft crashed in the Avala-Kosmaj range. Confirmed by an eyewitness
240. 11.05. 0:00 Grdelica, near Nis One Tornado shot down
241. 11:00 Batajnica, northwest of Belgrade Aircraft crashed north of Danube river
242. 12:40 Gruza, 15km southwest of Kragujevac Aircraft crashed on Gledicke mountain, between villages of Bajcetine and Cestina
243. 15:00 area between Banovci and Jakovo
244. 12.05. 15:00 Nis
245. 15:00 Kosovo
246. 15:15 Nis Two NATO aircraft, after being hit, crashed in Bulgaria
247.
248. 23:11 village Vaksince, near Kumanovo Eyewitnesses from the village Tromedja reported seeing 4 NATO aircraft returning from Kosovo. One of them, with heavy smoke coming out that later turned into fire, started losing altitude and crashed between villages Cetirce and Tromedja. Helicopters coming from Skopje were observed shortly after
249. 0:00 Loznica Aircraft crashed on Mt. Majevica, in Bosnia
250. 0:00 Mt. Fruska Gora
251. 13.05. 4:25 near Nova Pazova One B-52H hit and damaged. Aircraft then headed toward Dobanovci where it crashed. 17 people killed
252. around 5:00 Rakovica, near Belgrade Rescue helicopter captured. 17 soldiers killed, 3 captured
253. 7:25 Kicevo, Macedonia The pilot is believed to have ejected southwest of Skopje. Several helicopters have been observed flying into the area shortly after
254. around 12:00 village Klokot, near Vitina French UAV CL-289 shot down by Lt.Col. Brajan Vukicevic's air defense unit
255. 14:23 Stara Pazova One French Mirage (probably Mirage 2000) shot sown. Pilot captured
256. Becmen, 15km west of Belgrade According to eyewitnesses, one (maybe two) aircraft was shot down. Several plane fragments were found in the area. Eyewitnesses also report seeing two parachutes land in a nearby sports fishing zone. The pilots were reportedly captured
257. 16:00 Mountain Sara, Yugoslav-Macedonian border
258. around 19:00 village Biba, near Urosevac American UAV Predator. Downing footage shown on Radio Television of Serbia. UAV shot down by soldier Davor Veljkovic with Strela-1M missile system
259. Mt. Mokra Gora, village Istok, 15km northeast of Pec American UAV made by Boeing Corporation. Video capture shown on Radio Television of Serbia
260. 14.05. 14:40 Mt. Rudnik region Two NATO aircraft hit. Immediately after that, they jettisoned their fuel tanks and headed toward Bosnian airspace
261.
262. Djakovica region American A-10, after being hit by Yugoslav air defense, crashed on Sara mountain, near Albanian border
263. 19:20 Nis One NATO aircraft hit. Pilot ejected and landed in the vicinity of village Brenice
264. 23:30 Nis One French Crecerelle UAV shot down
265. village Klista, near Osijek, Croatia According to eyewitnesses, one (presumably Mirage 2000) crashed while attempting emergency landing at the Osijek airport. Aircraft jettisoned its fuel tank only to crash few moments later.
266. 15.05. 11:15 Banovci, near Belgrade Aircraft crashed near Lisicji Jarak
267. 13:40 Padinska Skela, near Belgrade One aircraft (F-16 according to eyewitnesses) was shot down near the river Danube by an air defense unit. Aircraft came from the direction of Novi Dobanovci already damaged. It crashed near the silos in Kovilovo
268. 13:43 Padinska Skela, near Belgrade One aircraft of the same type as the one shot down three minutes ago (hence, an F-16) was hit by the same air defense unit. Aircraft crashed at the almost identical spot as the one three minutes earlier!
269. near Kursumlija Danish F-16 hit and damaged. Aircraft probably crashed on Mt. Kopaonik
270. 16.05. Kosovo German UAV CL-289
271. 20:00 village Izvor, near Veles, Macedonia One NATO plane crashed not far from the village. Pilot ejected and was soon picked up by the helicopters near the place called Cuka. Incident reported and confirmed by numerous eyewitnesses and local police HQ.
272. 17.05. 1:30 Cacak
273. 13:12 area between Becmen and Ugrinovci One aircraft shot down while attacking Batajnica airfield
274. 13:30 Skopje, Macedonia NATO pilot ejected and was seen by numerous eyewitnesses
275. Pester plateau American UAV, according to reports, a reconnaissance version of AGM-86 ALCM
276. 15:30 area between Brestovik and Smederevo One French Mirage 2000 that crashed on a highway Belgrade-Obrenovac. Pilot ejected and captured shortly after
277. 18.05. 3:45 Mt. Fruska Gora
278. Zvornik Rescue helicopter
279. 15:52 area between Sabac and Koceljevo One aircraft hit and damaged
280. 19.05. around 17:00 village Talinovce, near Urosevac American UAV Predator serial number AF 95 021. UAV shot down by soldier Bojan Filipovic
281. around 19:00 Urosevac American UAV Hunter that crashed in the city area. UAV shot down by soldier Ljubomir Radojko
282. 20.05. 1:00 Vozdovac, Belgrade Confirmed by an eyewitness
283. 1:00 Surcin, Belgrade B-2A Spirit of Missouri, ser. no. AV-8 88-0329. After a direct SAM hit, aircraft crashed near the village of Dec, Pecinci district, between Simanovci and Kupinovo
284. 3:03 Borca, near Belgrade One large NATO aircraft. Story confirmed by numerous eyewitnesses. At 06:00 news, a source from the federal ministry acknowledged the downing of one large NATO bomber. Later on, it was acknowledged that it was a B-52H Stratofortress
285. 3:10 Topcider, Belgrade Two NATO jet fighters that were probably an escort for the bomber
286.
287. 3:25 Banjica, Belgrade Rescue helicopter with troops
288. 3:35 Gradiste, 17km southwest of Vinkovci, Croatia F-16 (most probably US)
289. 4:00 Mt. Cer, southwest of Sabac One B-52H Stratofortress shot down along with its entire crew
290. 15:10 airfield Slatina, Pristina German UAV CL-289
291. 21.05.. 3:00 Mt. Avala, south of Belgrade Rescue helicopter
292. 6:00 Pula, Croatia
293. 8:25 village Buca, Gora district, Kosovo American UAV Hunter
294. 12:00 Kosovo Two aircraft shot down
295.
296. 18:00 Nis One NATO aircraft shot down in an air to air engagement with Yugoslav Air Force fighter. NATO plane crashed onto Suva mountain
297. 22.05. 0:30 area between Topcider and Rakovica, Belgrade
298. 1:10 Rusanj, Belgrade Confirmed by an eyewitness
299. 1:12 Fruska Gora mountain
300. 1:27 area between Mt. Avala and Pancevo Confirmed by an eyewitness
301. 2:35 Lipovica, near Belgrade According to reliable reports, one B-52H Stratofortress shot down
302. 2:40 Kotez, Belgrade
303. 3:26 Ub
304. 4:10 Subotica One heavily damaged NATO plane crashed in Hungary
305. 12:00 Guncati, Belgrade
306. around 14:30 Leskovac One aircraft hit while attacking Leskovac sports airfield. Airplane started smoking and headed for Bulgarian airspace. Later confirmed that it crashed in Bulgaria
307. around 11:30 area of the village Klina, 20 km east of Pec A-10 Thunderbolt II that was hit near Glogovac by a soldier Dj.D. with 20mm AAA
308. 19:10 Prokuplje Aircraft crashed in the village of Vodice
309. Djeneral Jankovic, near Macedonian border American Hunter UAV that crashed on the Macedonian territory near Blace border village. Report confirmed by Macedonian TV A1 and NATO command
310. 23.05. 1:00 Mandjelos, near Sremska Mitrovica
311. Yugoslav-Macedonian border One UAV shot down and crashed in the area between Tetovo and Gostivar, Macedonia
312. near St. Petka (Sveta Petka) monastery Canadian. Most probably CL-289
This table was compiled by the Freedom Fighters organization. Their e-mail addresses pavkens@EUnet.yu and drcvetic@EUnet.yu Please contact them if you have any information about new NATO losses or if you can add anything to the information already contained in this table. I (Venik) and the Freedom Fighters will try to update this table as frequently as possible.

Copyright © 1999 Freedom

[GER_Mark]

You should read your own posts before you post it!

[gmi serbia]

You should read your own posts before you post it!
Thruth is pain, sorry!

[GER_Mark]

serbia come on msn messenger ^^

[gmi serbia]

serbia come on msn messenger ^^
give me your adress for msn m

[gmi serbia]

NATO losses in Kosovo
According to a March 25, 2000, article published by the ITAR-TASS news agency, Russian GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate) sources report that during the Operation "Allied Force" NATO's air forces sustained losses considerably higher than is officially acknowledged by NATO command. According to GRU information, NATO lost three F-117A stealth bombers, and at least 40 other combat planes, and over 1000 cruise missiles.
So far NATO officials acknowledged losing three combat planes (the USAF F-117A on March 27, the USMC AV-8B Harrier on May 1, and the F-16CG-40-CF on May 2), two attack helicopters (AH-64 Apache on April 26 and another Apache on May 5), between 30 and 32 unmanned reconnaissance vehicles, including at least 16 American, 7 German, and 5 French UAVs. Interestingly enough NATO acknowledged all of the UAV losses mentioned by Yugoslav military officials - 30 - and, perhaps, even more.
Official NATO reports and statements made by various NATO officials indicate that about 10 NATO planes made emergency landings. Two F-117As sustained extensive damage (the F-117A 86-0837 was damaged on April 21 during landing; and another F-117A lost a part of its tail section due to a nearby SA-3 SAM explosion). An RAF C-130K Hercules transport plane crashed on June 11 in Albania. The aircraft was delivering a British SAS unit that was trying to beat Russian paratroopers to the Slatina base. The US Army OH-58 combat reconnaissance helicopter crashed on May 26 in Bosnia.
According to the information from unofficial Yugoslav military sources, NATO's final assessment of its aircraft losses during the operation "Allied Force" indicates that some 61 aircraft have been destroyed, 53 aircraft were damaged beyond repair or it is not cost-effective to repair them, 57 aircraft have sustained repairable combat damage. A total of 171 NATO aircraft were hit by Yugoslav defenses during the war.
According to Yugoslav army officials, NATO lost 61 planes, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs, and 238 cruise missiles. These numbers include only those NATO aircraft that crashed inside Yugoslavia. Distribution of aircraft kills among various units and branches of the Yugoslav Armed Forces is as follows: 3rd Army: 34 planes, 5 helicopters, 25 UAVs and 52 cruise missiles (according to an official statement by General Nebojsa Pavkovic, commander of the 3rd Army, on June 12, 1999); Navy: 3 planes, 3 UAVs and over 5 cruise missiles (from an official statement by the FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec, June 10, 1999); 2nd Army: 24 planes, 2 helicopters, 2 UAVs (reported by Major General Spasoje Smiljanic in his interview to Politika newspaper at the end of April), 30 cruise missiles; 1st Army: 6 planes, 129 cruise missiles (reported by General Ninoslav Krstic in his interview for the "Vojska" magazine on May 24, 1999.) If you add up these numbers, provided by various Yugoslav military officials, you will see that the number of planes reported to have been shot down is 67 and not 61 as the official report by Gen. Dragoljub Ojdanic states. And here's why:
On June 17, 1999, Gen. Spasoje Smiljanic, then commander of Yugoslav Air Force and Air Defense (RV i PVO), announced that "the Yugoslav Air Force and Air Defence units have downed 36 airplanes, 42 cruise missiles, nine UAVs and two helicopters." It is important to keep in mind, however, that RV i PVO air defense units do not include low-level army air defenses or naval air defenses, such as man-portable SAMs and some AAAs. The total number planes shot down by RV i PVO and by various air defense units outside of RV i PVO command comes to 61 planes, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and 238 cruise missiles according to Gen. Ojdanic. However, these figures only include those NATO aircraft that crashed inside Yugoslavia. In some of the earlier reports mentioned above Yugoslav military commanders included NATO aircraft that crashed outside Yugoslavia.
Several new pieces of destroyed NATO hardware were added to the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum's exhibit on March 24 to commemorate one year since the beginning of NATO's aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Currently the museum's exhibit includes over 1500 fragments of NATO's military hardware. The museum's curator, Cedomir Janjic, announced that more destroyed NATO weapons will be soon added to the collection in a new wing of the museum dedicated to the war with NATO.
In an interview to the Associated Press Yugoslavia's Minister for Science and Development, Cedomir Mirkovic, said "It is truly amazing how many aircraft and drones were downed with the relatively modest and primitive equipment..." Mirkovic refutes Western claims that Yugoslav air defense downed only two planes. "We shall prove we have more," he said, without elaborating.
In February British press was discussing sharp shortage of operational aircraft experienced by the Royal Air Force. The news first appeared in the January 23, 2000, Hundreds of Crippled Jets put RAF in Crisis article from The Observer, by Antony Barnet. In particular, the article, based on the Observer's own investigation, outlines the following problems with the RAF:
"Two out of three of the UK's 186 fleet of Tornado bombers are grounded;
Fewer than 40 per cent of other frontline aircraft, such as Harriers and Jaguars, are ready to fly at short notice;
The Ministry of Defence has spent almost Ј1 billion developing a laser-guided bombing system that does not work properly;
There is shortage of nearly 20 per cent of junior officer fast jet pilots and the RAF is having a severe problem in retaining trained pilots;"
Two out of three British Tornadoes that are grounded comes to a rather substantial number: 124 Tornado strike aircraft are not operational. The crisis begun developing following the Operation "Desert Storm" in Iraq, but it really took off since the Operation "Allied Force" against Yugoslavia. As far as I know only four NATO Tornado aircraft were shot down during the conflict based on media reports. Two Luftwaffe strike aircraft were shot down on March 26-27. The other two Tornadoes were shot down on April 15 and May 26. It was not reported whether these aircraft were German or British.
The fact is that most of RAF's strike aircraft are out of order for a variety of reasons. I do not have enough information to draw any definitive conclusions. However, I know enough to say that 124 strategically - important strike aircraft are not grounded for no reason. NATO sustained significant losses. An even greater number of aircraft were damaged not only by ground fire but also by the intensity of operations and skipping on the required maintenance hours. After talking to several USAF aircraft mechanics, who participated in the "Allied Force", I can conclude that NATO aircraft were pushed to the limit and way beyond it. This is especially true for the USAF aircraft. One USAF aircraft mechanic who served at Aviano told me: "Two weeks - three weeks tops - and the "Allied Force" would have been over 'cause NATO would have ran out of working planes."
In the February 13 article in The Observer, based on first-hand information posted by RAF pilots and technicians at an Internet discussion group and entitled Pilots Vent Fury at RAF on Web, Antony Barnet writes: "Pilots currently serving in the Gulf, and others recently back from Kosovo, are so angry about defective equipment and low morale they are flooding the secret site with complaints aimed at senior officers." The "secret" site is the PPRuNe message board for military pilots. I've spent several days at that site fishing for information until that Sherlock from The Observer scared everyone away with his article.
From what was written by RAF pilots, it can be readily seen that there is a great deal of concern about technical capabilities of aircraft and even about their basic safety compromised by the lack of proper technical service and spare parts. An RAF Captain wrote: "The number of sorties lost due to unserviceability is way too high. I now find that I have to accept faults to get the job done that a few years ago I would not have done ... Although I have a few worries about the structural strength of the airframe I am convinced that we are going to have a major problem due to some esoteric fault... We struggle to get spares, some parts have to be manufactured over and over. We use the cheapest contractor we can find..."
And, in place of a conclusion, a brief review of the latest developments around Kosovo. Following some harsh criticism directed by the U.S. military against France regarding its role in the Operation "Allied Force" and in response to the accusations by certain US government officials that French peacekeepers in Kosovo are not doing their job, France released classified information regarding civilian casualties in Kosovo since the NATO-led UN force assumed responsibility for the province following the war with Yugoslavia. Available statistics clearly illustrated that the French sector of Kosovo has a better safety record than the sector supervised by the Americans.
However, information revealed by France also showed that civilian casualties in Kosovo are much higher than they were when Kosovo was under Yugoslav control. In essence, the number of violent deaths in the province is higher and continues to grow under NATO's "humanitarian intervention" that it was during the "ethnic cleansing." The report released by France clearly illustrates that the number of violent crimes in Kosovo is rapidly growing. This revelation was the first step in a series of events that led to recent statements by various UN and NATO officials confirming that the KFOR has effectively lost control over the situation in Kosovo. NATO field commanders acknowledged that their troops are not capable of dealing with the growing crime wave in the province. The UN formally announced that the situation in Kosovo worsened since NATO troops assumed control of the province. The US approached Russian government with an offer to widen the authority of the Contact Group.
Russia's response was not very optimistic to say the least. Russian law enforcement officials announced that Russian policemen will not be deployed in Kosovo because of appalling lack of cooperation on NATO's side. Furthermore, top Russian military commanders announced that Russia may pull out of the KFOR altogether. On the other hand, commander of Russian Airborne Assault Forces (VDV) Gen. G. Shpak announced about plans to convert the Slatina base of the Yugoslav Air Force near Pristina, which currently serves as the main base for Russian KFOR paratroopers, into a large Russian military base with a capability to barrack up to 15000 Russian troops.
There are reports that Russians are already doing some large-scale construction work at Slatina. Russian Su-27 and Su-30 fighter aircraft have been sighted at several Yugoslav Air Force bases (Batajnica, Ponikve). There is a lot of unofficial information regarding deliveries of Russian SAM systems to Yugoslavia. High-level meetings are underway between Yugoslav and Russian governments regarding Yugoslavia's plans to join the Russia-Belarus union. The Russian military is extremely interested in establishing its presence in Kosovo and in the rest of Serbia on a greater scale. A logical first step would be a joint defense agreement between Russia and Yugoslavia. Such an agreement will include Belarus and, possibly, other CIS members. In an interview to the "Voice of Russia" radio station, Gen. Ivashov said that Russia is considering a military intervention in Kosovo and may offer support to the Yugoslav Army on the ground.
Many question Yugoslavia's ability to purchase large quantities of hi-tech weapons from Russia. Yugoslavia's economy is not in great shape, but Russia owes FRY a hefty sum, which Russians would be only too glad to offset by supplying Serbia weapons. Russia is also seeking more influence in Europe now that the Chechen conflict is no longer a major military commitment. Russian generals and the military-industrial complex look to expand internal arms market as well as arms exports. Yugoslavia always has an option to lease or even borrow weapons from Russia. And the latter, with its recently-downsized army, has plenty of decent-quality weapons to spare, including SAMs and aircraft. SAMs and planes are not underwear: you don't need to own 'em to use 'em. This may not be the latest equipment but it works and there's a lot of it.
According to an ITAR-TASS review of the article published by the Foreign Military Review magazine of the Russian Defense Ministry, Yugoslav aviation prevented the use of American AH-64 Apache attack helicopters during the Kosovo conflict. The "NATO Losses in the War with Yugoslavia" article, the Foreign Military Review writes: "... the biggest sensation was the number of troops lost by NATO. Not just NATO pilots were killed in Yugoslavia, but also search-and-rescue troops that were tasked with locating downed pilots. Yugoslav air defenses have shot down no less than five NATO helicopters, which resulted in deaths of about 100 troops of the Alliance."
According to the Foreign Military Review, the reason why Pentagon did not use Apaches in Kosovo "...had nothing to do with technical problems with the helicopters or insufficient training of their flight crews, as was often stated by NATO officials. The only reason was the April 26 attack carried out by Yugoslav "Galeb" fighters against "Rinas" airport located near Albania's capital of Tirana, where the Apaches were based. That day two groups of these light helicopters were destroyed and over 10 helicopters were damaged."
A similar operation was carried out by Yugoslav AF on April 18 against the airport in Tuzla, Bosnia, used as an emergency landing site for NATO aircraft. As the result of this attack some fifteen NATO aircraft have been destroyed on the ground. The Foreign Military Review writes: "Despite the fact that American aircraft dominated NATO operations, they weren't the only aircraft shot down by Yugoslav air defenses. Among the destroyed aircraft were five German "Tornadoes," several British "Harriers'" two French "Mirages," Belgian, Dutch, and Canadian aircraft. On June 7 the USAF lost a B-52 strategic bomber, while on May 20 a B-2A "Spirit" was shot down." Information regarding the B-52 loss comes as a surprise to me. I have seen a brief eyewitness report regarding this incident, but it was never mentioned in press or on the NATO losses list on my site. Looking at the eyewitness report listing compiled by aviation enthusiasts in Yugoslavia, we can find the following entry (#381): June 7, between 0:12 and 0:40, area between Slankamen and Indjija, One large bomber (most probably B-52) was shot down. Aircraft exploded after a direct SAM hit. Crew killed." Venik
March 28, 2000
April 9, 2000
Venik's Aviation Page

[GER_Mark]

Two Luftwaffe strike aircraft were shot down on March 26-27.

WOW! didnt know our tornados were that fast !

[G-Capo]

Serbians fought bravely against the half of the world.
Nato was so affraid of the Serbs they would not send in ground troops but fight the war 20,000 feet in the clouds.

Half the time hitting dummies that cost 10 dollars with half a million dollar missile.

[gmi serbia]

WOW! didnt know our tornados were that fast !
this is month hahaha

[gmi serbia]

Serbians fought bravely against the half of the world.
Nato was so affraid of the Serbs they would not send in ground troops but fight the war 20,000 feet in the clouds.

Half the time hitting dummies that cost 10 dollars with half a million dollar missile.

Thank's comrade! I respect that!

[Snauhi]

This is BS, this is all coming from the Yogo sources, if russian SAMS were really that good then USA would lose it all wars....

Btw why dint serb take any pics? Expect of well know F-117? if they know the location why is it no pictures?

Why dint Israel lose it wars when arabs were using same SAMS

[Pure_sunni]

Serbians fought bravely against the half of the world.
Nato was so affraid of the Serbs they would not send in ground troops but fight the war 20,000 feet in the clouds.

Half the time hitting dummies that cost 10 dollars with half a million dollar missile.
If they fought bravely why would they mass kill civilians in Cro,Bos,kosovo and
Hitting dummies? they hit very important bridges, buildings and army positions in Bosnia, serbia and elsewhere.

Serb, do you got any footage from the Dubrovnik war

[iCQ]

what you mean, I don't understand good becouse my englis, sorry.

I mean you are correct... we should think about it. And i mean i already did think about it and i probably agree with you: It is not good.

And your English is fine my friend! It is getting better every day! ;)

"been there, done that" = an old English saying for "ok, but i already do it"




I see you have some people here disagree with you on the content of what you have posted. I cannot check it so i give YOU the benefit of the doubt. Please re-do your homework and please do not feel so threatnend by the guys here... i promise you most guys here are MORE then just decent! HAVE A NICE DAY! :o


My personal opinion is that the Dutch-Bat soldiers were "tricked" by the serb army and so later they got the blame for the deaths of many innocent people there in Yugo. On the other hand... i know quite a lot of Dutch soldiers are "lost souls". One friend of mine he had to serve in Yugo... he told me "i make lot of money" (stupid reason for make war)... he told me "i go take some weed with me to trade".

Guess what happen to him... after a month or so he come back to the Netherlands. He got caught lol... he was doing business with Russian soldiers trading weapons for drugs. When he came back i reminded him about the fact that i warned him NOT to play games in war time. But it was too late. He didnt make ANY money... he didnt bring back ANY GOOD NEWS... but he did learn an important lesson.

I am so sorry what happend (and still happens) in Yugo/Bosnia. I am VERY sorry what happend to ALL the people there on BOTH SIDES! I hope YOU and your family did not suffer so much. Please be strong and wise... keep your eyes open and watch your back!!!!

[gmi serbia]

I mean you are correct... we should think about it. And i mean i already did think about it and i probably agree with you: It is not good.

And your English is fine my friend! It is getting better every day! ;)

"been there, done that" = an old English saying for "ok, but i already do it"




I see you have some people here disagree with you on the content of what you have posted. I cannot check it so i give YOU the benefit of the doubt. Please re-do your homework and please do not feel so threatnend by the guys here... i promise you most guys here are MORE then just decent! HAVE A NICE DAY! :o


My personal opinion is that the Dutch-Bat soldiers were "tricked" by the serb army and so later they got the blame for the deaths of many innocent people there in Yugo. On the other hand... i know quite a lot of Dutch soldiers are "lost souls". One friend of mine he had to serve in Yugo... he told me "i make lot of money" (stupid reason for make war)... he told me "i go take some weed with me to trade".

Guess what happen to him... after a month or so he come back to the Netherlands. He got caught lol... he was doing business with Russian soldiers trading weapons for drugs. When he came back i reminded him about the fact that i warned him NOT to play games in war time. But it was too late. He didnt make ANY money... he didnt bring back ANY GOOD NEWS... but he did learn an important lesson.

I am so sorry what happend (and still happens) in Yugo/Bosnia. I am VERY sorry what happend to ALL the people there on BOTH SIDES! I hope YOU and your family did not suffer so much. Please be strong and wise... keep your eyes open and watch your back!!!!

Thank's comrade!

[gmi serbia]

If they fought bravely why would they mass kill civilians in Cro,Bos,kosovo and
Hitting dummies? they hit very important bridges, buildings and army positions in Bosnia, serbia and elsewhere.

Serb, do you got any footage from the Dubrovnik war
What you nthink? serbs kill, kill, kill, and other side singing song???? Do you know how many Serbs died from Croatian???? Do you? NO Do you know who is winer in war? who get MEDIA!!
That media you watch? Do you know what media in Europe talk today about Iraq, Iran, Egypt...?? do you? when I belive all i dont want talk today whit you!!
All sides in war are kill people all of three!!

[gmi serbia]

This is BS, this is all coming from the Yogo sources, if russian SAMS were really that good then USA would lose it all wars....

Btw why dint serb take any pics? Expect of well know F-117? if they know the location why is it no pictures?

Why dint Israel lose it wars when arabs were using same SAMS

I give to you that but if you want belive you belive in that, if you not, ok. It's not secret anymore that losses.
Museum ( air force ) is lot of part's, come to me and see that!

[gmi serbia]

Serbia 1999.
Hello for NATO and American's

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4181/finger9ca.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

Officially confirmed / documented NATO helicopter losses

April 24 On 04-24-99 a US Army AH-64A Apache helicopter "made a precautionary landing in a field at Castiglione della Pescaia on the Italian West coast after departing Pisa Airport, Italy, en route to Brindisi before crossing the Adriatic for deployment to Albania. A warning light indicating an engine problem was the reason for the landing and the helicopter continued with its journey after repairs had been carried out on site." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)

April 26 A U.S. Army Apache helicopter crashed near Albania's capital, Tirana, on 04-26-99 and the two pilots were evacuated to the 212th Mobile Army Surgical Hospital at Tirana Airport, as was announced by Pentagon officials. More details on the Apache crash.

May 5 American Apache helicopter crashed 75km north of Tirana on 05-05-99 at 01:30 local time. NATO reported the incident, saying that the helicopter crashed in yet another "training exercise." The crew of two is dead. ABC News report here. ITAR-TASS report here. A 05-23-99 issue of German Weld am Sonntag newspaper quoted a classified NATO report stating that the U.S. Apache helicopter, that crashed in Albania on 05-05-99, was "likely shot down by Serb forces." According to the newspaper, the NATO report came to this conclusion "from the fact that the chopper erupted into a fireball in mid-air before crashing to the ground." Swedish Aftonbladet newspaper also quoted the classified NATO report suggesting that the second Apache, which crashed on 05-05-99, exploded in mid-air, possibly as a result of a SAM impact. Agence France Presse article from 05-22-99 here. A more coherent explanation for the second Apache crash in Albania was leaked by an unnamed Pentagon source, who suggested that the helicopter might have been shot down by a high-power sniper rifle, with which Serb troops are amply equipped. Such a weapon is equipped with capable night vision scope and can be fired in silence from long distance without being detected by the Apaches sensors as a portable SAM launch would be. Here is what The American Spectator magazine writes about the second Apache crash in Albania: "...Moreover, two of the Apaches had crashed on training missions early on, one during a nighttime exercise in the mountains that had left both pilots dead. A German newspaper reported that the chopper had been shot down by Serb rocket fire, a claim vigorously denied by the Pentagon. The official line was that the crash was still under investigation, and of the dozen or so pilots I spoke with only one consented to talk about the accident. He said he had been in the air that night on the same exercise and that the crash was "unexplainable." He said none of the pilots had any radar indication of hostile fire below, nor did the chopper appear to clip a wire or hit any other obstacle. "It just flew over a mountain," he said, "and exploded. We knew right away--no way those guys could have come out alive." Whatever happened, the incident had understandably set a sour mood around the camp for a time, I suppose particularly--though no pilot ever said so directly--because everyone knew they weren't there for battle in the first place." (source: The American Spectator, August 1999, Vol. 32 No. 8, Pg. 32). For the complete article click here.

May 26 American SFOR OH-58 Scout Kiowa reconnaissance helicopter crashed on 05-26-99 at 23:20 7km south-east of Brcko in the area of Ristici, Bosnia (map). SFOR, IPTF and LP responded to the scene. Two pilots on board suffered injuries: first pilot suffered minor injuries and was treated at SFOR base in Tuzla; second pilot sustained head and leg injuries and as of 05-27-99 he is still being treated at the Tuzla SFOR base. The incident was reported by the UN International Police Task Force.

[gmi serbia]

Officially confirmed / documented NATO combat plane losses

March 25 One heavily-damaged USAF F-15 landed at Sarajevo airport on 03-25-99 escorted by another F-15. Photo of a damaged F-15 over Sarajevo from Vojska newspaper. The incident was confirmed by LtCdr Sheena Thomson of SFOR during a joint NATO-SFOR press conference on 03-25-99. You can read the complete transcript of the press conference here

March 26 On 03-26-99 USAF F-15E strike fighter of the 48th FW "reported to have run off the runway and been badly damaged while making an emergency landing at Istrana air base, Italy." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)

March 27 Pentagon acknowledged the loss of one F-117A (USAF 49th FW / 8th FS F-117A 82-0806/'HO'), which was shot down by a Yugoslav SAM of undetermined type (possibly SA-3 or SA-6) and crashed near the village Budjenovci. From the available footage of the F-117A wreckage it is possible to see bullet holes in the wing of the bomber, probably caused by a 23mm anti-aircraft gun. The damage to the rest of the aircraft seemed severe and looked like it indeed was caused by a SAM. Latest information suggests that the F-117 was shot down by an SA-3 surface-to-air missile with optical guidance. Pentagon officially confirmed that the F-117A was tracked by an enemy radar and that two SAMs were launched at the aircraft. In an interview with Associated Press on November 24, 1999, retired USAF Gen. Richard Hawley, formerly the head of Air Combat Command at Langley AFB in Virginia, talked about the loss of the F-117A 82-0806 during the Kosovo conflict. Gen. Hawley said that prior to the aircraft's departure from Aviano there "was a better that 50 / 50 chance it would be shot down. Those are unacceptable odds." After retiring from the USAF on June 11, 1999, Hawley blamed US field commander and other military planners for not correctly understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the aircraft. Hawley said "They put the 117 into a situation it wasn't designed to handle, so we lost the airplane, and I attribute it as much to a breakdown in our mission planning as to anything else... It encountered defenses we knew it was not designed to handle and it didn't need to get put into that situation." The USAF investigated the loss of the F-117A, however, keeps its findings classified.

April 4 On 04-04-99 a "USAF 31st FW F-16C made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport Bosnia-Herzegovina." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)

April 16 On 04-16-99 a USAF 52nd FW/ 81st FS A-10A 81-0984/'SP' (construction number A10-0679) "suffered oil pressure failure and diverted to Petrovac Airport, Skopje, Macedonia, for an emergency landing." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)

April 19 On 04-19-99 a Danish AF F-16 "made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport, Bosnia-Herzegovina, due to a serious engine problem in the early hours of the morning while flying a combat air patrol mission to protect NATO SFOR troops in Bosnia." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)

April 21 April 21 An F-117A 86-0837/'OT' (construction number A.4062) of the USAF 422nd TES "suffered extensive damage in an unspecified landing accident, details unconfirmed, but reported as a Class A accident." (source: Air Forces Monthly, August 1999, p. 74) Class A accident normally means that the plane was totaled or came very near.

April 25 On 04-25-99 a USAF F-15 fighter jet "made emergency landing at Sarajevo Airport, escorted by another F-15, due to a faulty hydraulic pump." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)

April 30 An F-117A of the 49th FW was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM, "...causing loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany." (source: Air Forces Monthly, July 1999, p. 75)

May 1 According to an official NATO statement, one American USMC AV-8B Harrier crashed in the Adriatic on 05-1-99 while trying to land on a US carrier during a "training exercise", pilot was rescued. The US Sixth Fleet command said that the aircraft crashed after losing power 15km east of Brindisi, Italy (one of NATO's airbases is located at Brindisi, map).

May 2 A USAF F-16CG-40-CF fighter aircraft (tail number AV555FS, serial number 88-0550, 555th Fighter Squadron, construction number 1C-152) crashed 18km east of the town of Kozluk, Yugoslavia (according to official NATO report, however, 20km southeast of Sabac according to Yugoslavian reports, map) at 02:20 on 05-02-99. The pilot ejected and NATO reported that he was picked up by NATO rescue forces. Photo from The Times of London here. US Department of Defense news report here. Associated Press report here.
The USAF released video footage of the F-16CG's shoot down as well as the transcript of the radio conversation between pilots. ABCNews article here

May 2 At 18:00 on 05-02-99 TV Sitel in Skopje, Macedonia reported that a heavily-damaged OA-10A Thunderbolt 81-0967 (construction number A10-0662) of the 23rd Wing, 74th Fighter Squadron, crash-landed near Skopje, not far from the Petrovec airport, used by NATO for emergency landings and rescue operations (map). Pentagon reports indicate that the aircraft was hit by an SA-7 man-portable SAM in the starboard engine. Many eye witnesses in Skopje reported that the aircraft appeared to have serious damage to one of its engines (right engine relative to the pilot) and a wing. Several missiles were still attached to the underwing pylons, creating a danger of explosion and a panic among local residents. Some 40 minutes after the crash, the aircraft was towed by a NATO vehicle to the Petrovec airport. Photo here. A larger version of the same photo here. ABC News reported on 05-03-99: "NATO military spokesman General Walter Jertz said NATO encountered increased resistance by Serb anti-aircraft defences and one alliance plane, a U.S. A-10 Thunderbolt, had been hit and damaged but had landed safely in Skopje, Macedonia." Serbian television showed the remains of an A-10A Thunderbolt on 05-04-99. The video was shot on 05-02-99 and showed one of the aircraft's engines, which was directly hit by a missile, and other parts, including a plate with the plane's make (A-10A), serial number on the engine cover (A 40662, which is the construction number for the OA-10A 81-0967) and code number (77751). The ITAR-TASS report here. Video here. Photos. Reuters report here. Early available information indicated that the aircraft was flown by Capt. Chris Short, who's A/OA-10A was confirmed to have been damaged. However, now it is know that Capt. Short's aircraft was damaged during a combat mission on May 11 (see next entry). The name of the pilot who flew the OA-10A 81-0967 is not known. Following the crash landing of the 81-0967 Macedonian TV reported that the pilot of the aircraft was injured. Eyewitness reports I have (from members of the Pristina air defense unit) of the incident involving the 81-0967 over Kosovo indicate that two A-10s were involved, one of which was shot down. Earlier it was believed that the aircraft parts shown on Serbian TV belonged to the downed A-10. However, the aircraft's construction number visible on the engine nacelle indicates that it belongs to the A-10 that landed in Macedonia
May 11 On May 11, 1999, an OA-10A serial number 81-0984 piloted by Capt. Chris Short landed at the Gioia del Colle airbase in Italy with damage to the underside of the aircraft. The damage is believed to have been caused by a nearby explosion of an SA-13 SAM. It is known that the same aircraft was suffered oil pressure problems and was diverted to the Petrovec base in Macedonia for repair on April 16, 1999. RAF yearbook (p. 46) details Capt. Short's encounter with the SAM:
'Amongst the many encounters by the 81st FS was one on 11 May, when a pair of OA-10s were performing an airborne FAC mission over eastern Kosovo. Pilots Capt. Chris Short, and his wingman Col. Greg Sanders, entered their designated box area from the south and were notified by an E-3 to search for a possible Serbian helicopter. After 15 minutes of fruitless search, they discovered a possible tank revetment south of Pristina airfield. A Maverick missile was fired at the site, although it was not possible to determine if the tank had been successfully hit. The pilots radioed the position of the tank revetment to another FAC team, and departed the area. The A-10s then flew to another location, where earlier in the day two camouflaged APCs had been reported. Two vehicles were detected, but due to low fuel reserves, the pilots were only able to perform two attacks. Capt. Short rolled his A-10 towards the vehicle and fired a Maverick, scoring a direct hit. The second aircraft aimed for the other vehicle, and also fired a Maverick which missed its target. The two aircraft then climbed to altitude to return to the tanker before continuing their patrol. While in the climb, Capt. Short experienced a 'thump' on the underside of the fuselage behind the seat. As a defensive measure both aircraft ejected self protection flares. Neither Col. Sanders or Capt. Short could find any damage to their aircraft, so the two pilots resumed their flight after refuelling from the tanker. The two aircraft completed their mission, which included delivering Mk82 bombs onto a Serb target in Kosovo. The aircraft then returned to Gioia del Colle. It was only after taxing into the de-arming area that personnel noticed damaged to the underside of the A-10. The FM antenna had been torn away, and there was a large dent on the underside and a black scorch mark. A SAM is believed to have exploded nearby, with Capt. Short having a lucky escape'
May 2 On several occasions NATO representatives mentioned various NATO aircraft making emergency landings in Sarajevo and elsewhere. According to a statement made by NATO spokesman Jamie Shea on 05-02-99, one American F-16 fighter aircraft made an emergency landing at Sarajevo airport. He did not specify the exact date of the incident. So far (05-02-99), it has only been known that three damaged NATO aircraft landed at Sarajevo: the USAF F-15 on March 25th, a British Harrier and a Danish F-16 on April 19th.

June 11 An RAF C-130K Hercules C.1 XV 298 transport aircraft from RAF Lyneham crashed on 06-11-99 in Albanian town of Kukes, while attempting to land on a dirt airstrip built by UAE humanitarian mission in Albania. The aircraft was carrying 12 people and ammunition. It exploded upon impact. According to NATO spokesman, one person on board was injured and hospitalized. AP report here. Reuters report here.
October 25 According to The Sunday Times article, the RAF C-130K Hercules, that crashed in Kukes, Albania on 06-11-99 was used by British SAS troops trying to beat Russian paratroopers to the Slatina airport near Pristina, Kosovo. It was reported that serial numbers on the C-130K were removed.

[Snauhi]

Please give me the link to that article

[gmi serbia]

Please give me the link to that article

http://www.aeronautics.ru/yugoslavia/index.htm

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/natolosses-review01.htm

http://www.aeronautics.ru/natodown.htm

http://www.aeronautics.ru/conflictinyu.htm

http://www.aeronautics.ru/official/officiallosses.htm

...and more, I give you more ok?

[gmi serbia]

A-10a

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2640/a10athunderboltgrounattackairc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/9674/a10wreck2519996qd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/1827/ana10alaunchingaflarephotograp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Apache

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5646/ah64apache1americanapachehelic.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2531/apache064pb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

F-16

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8541/f16cgcrash039bh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9991/f16cgcrash055md.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/866/f16cgcrash10small9vz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3061/f16cgsabac0502995ny.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5089/f16cgsabac0502993hm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8026/f16cgsabac0502992lk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

Air defense 1999.

Miscellaneous

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9995/45vn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/175/55jx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6889/561uh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6752/images6at.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/286/images18it.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This pics is small but that weapon works job!

[gmi serbia]

SA-9

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1723/gaskin89xe.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8615/gaskin98hv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/386/gaskin109ia.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

SA-6

SA-6 / Kub 2P25
• Crew: 3
• Engine: V-6R V-6 diesel 240 hp
• Max road speed: 44 km/h
• Range: 260 km
• Combat weight: 14,000 kg
• Power-to-weight ratio: 17.14 hp/t
• Ground pressure: 0.48 kg/cmІ
• Length: 7.389 m
• Width: 3.18 m
• Height: 3.45 m
• Ground clearance: 0.4 m
• Armament: 3 SA-6 (3M9M) missile
• Launch weight: 599 kg
• Warhead: 59 kg HE
• Max speed: Mach 2,8
• Max effective range:24,000 m
• Min effective range: 4,000 m
• Max effective altitude: 14,000 m
• Min effective altitude:
o (radar mode) 100 m
o (optical mode) 25 m
• Max target speed:
o (approaching) 600 m/s
o (receding) 300m/s
Reload time (SPU): 10 min

Straight Flush’ fire control radar (1S91).
• Detection range: 75 km azimuth; 10 km altitude.
• Tracking range: 28 km
• ‘Straight Flush’ has a similar chassis to that of the Kub launch vehicle.
• Engine: V-6R V-6 diesel 240 hp
• Max road speed: 44 km/h
• Range: 260 km
• Length: 7.38 m
• Width: 3.73 m
• Height: 5.88 m
• Ground clearance: 0.4 m

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9233/sa6015qs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2415/sa6041eh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2592/sa6059dn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Стрела-1м

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4426/strela2m15jw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7057/strela1m10ei.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

НЕВА

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3125/picture8tz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Pure_sunni]

gmi_serbia

well you were killing the most civilians in Cro and in Bos the massgraves is a evidence what your actions was there.It was 100% right to bomb your country because nobdy wants a drunken ugly serbian soldier to rampage civilians. Can you accept that your country Serbia killd so many CIVILIANS while the other side with its gerilla was crushing you

[gmi serbia]

gmi_serbia

well you were killing the most civilians in Cro and in Bos the massgraves is a evidence what your actions was there.It was 100% right to bomb your country because nobdy wants a drunken ugly serbian soldier to rampage civilians. Can you accept that your country Serbia killd so many CIVILIANS while the other side with its gerilla was crushing you
Yes you are right!? Do you know how many Serb died from Cro and Bos? No
I give some adress ok?

Do you know who is kill that Serbs?? DO YOU? Think about that!

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://rs-icty.org/galerija/photo/MUDZ3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://rs-icty.org/glavna_galerija_foto.htm&h=439&w=600&sz=42&tbnid=nyiiH7hBkFgWLM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=133&hl=sr&start=5&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dzlocini%2Bnad%2Bsrbima%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dsr%2 6lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2005-08,GGLD:en%26sa%3DN
http://rs-icty.org/galerija/photo/MUDZ3.jpg
http://rs-icty.org/galerija/photo/MUDZ2.jpg
http://www.vucjak.com/vukovar/SnapShot(13).jpg
http://www.rcp-brcko.com/dokumenti/9l.jpg
http://www.serbianunity.net/culture/library/Hronika_Naseg_Groblja/zlocin/zlocin1.html
http://www.vucjak.com/home.html

DO YOU WANT MORE DEAD SERBS??
You don't know NOTHING about that!

[gmi serbia]

Kub SA-6

The Yugoslav Kub (SA-6) "Plane Killer" SAM and its crew. This SAM system was stationed near Nis during the war with NATO. It's crew launched five missiles and shot down three NATO aircraft. One of the planes downed by this SAM system was a French Mirage 2000 that crashed near Svrljig. The plane was downed between 3:43 and 4:30 in the morning on May 7, 1999. The second crewmember from he left (the one with gray hair) is an electronics engineer, who later stripped the fallen French fighter of most of its electronics. Another Kub SAM system from the same unit fired 4 missiles during the war shooting down 2 NATO combat jets.
The The Yugoslav Kub (SA-6) "Plane Killer" SAM and its crew. This SAM system was stationed near Nis during the war with NATO. It's crew launched five missiles and shot down three NATO aircraft. One of the planes downed by this SAM system was a French Mirage 2000 that crashed near Svrljig. The plane was downed between 3:43These 4 photos of Yugoslav Strela-1M (SA-9) SAM systems were taken after the war near army barracks in Nis. One of these SAM systems (serial number 22343) was responsible for shooting down a NATO F-16 fighter jet. The other one damaged an A-10 Thunderbolt attack plane.
photos from YuModelClub web site
and 4:30 in the morning on May 7, 1999. The second crewmember from he left (the one with gray hair) is an electronics engineer, who later stripped the fallen French fighter of most of its electronics. Another Kub SAM system from the same unit fired 4 missiles during the war shooting down 2 NATO combat jets
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8633/clipimage0022ei.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[iCQ]

DO YOU WANT MORE DEAD SERBS??
You don't know NOTHING about that!

Please man... cool down please... nobody in his right mind wants more dead people. Firstly they STINK, secondly dead people are useless and boring and finally it is not going to make anyone better from it. It is a negative spiral! (if u want call it evil, for me its just NEGATIVE!)

I miss my grandfather a lot... he passed away. Really... to kill someone is not going to impress me. I know u can scare people with dead... but i also know i probably scare 'you'... with LIFE!

Let me add that i want to thank you for your point of view... thank you for taking time to address this problem. And thank you for standing up for yourself and your rights. Keep sharp and keep form your opinion while you listen to the people that you think are good, like your father or leader. Dont ever (this is for everybody) let a human fool you! You have a great set of mind in your head... and a working heart... you can be smart, wise as anyone else. So dare to doubt and dare to question... but do not disrespect life as it can take you so far away that u'll never find your way back to our beautiful green and blue planet called "earth".

[Pure_sunni]

[quote=gmi serbia]
Well you lost the war and im glad of that.

[gmi serbia]

[quote=gmi serbia]
Well you lost the war and im glad of that.

hahaha ok, ok you are right, hahaha
if you say
and I must tell you, I glad becouse you read all my post's. Read, read and study .... you can learn more think's!
Thank you becouse that!

[gmi serbia]

Please man... cool down please... nobody in his right mind wants more dead people. Firstly they STINK, secondly dead people are useless and boring and finally it is not going to make anyone better from it. It is a negative spiral! (if u want call it evil, for me its just NEGATIVE!)

I miss my grandfather a lot... he passed away. Really... to kill someone is not going to impress me. I know u can scare people with dead... but i also know i probably scare 'you'... with LIFE!

Let me add that i want to thank you for your point of view... thank you for taking time to address this problem. And thank you for standing up for yourself and your rights. Keep sharp and keep form your opinion while you listen to the people that you think are good, like your father or leader. Dont ever (this is for everybody) let a human fool you! You have a great set of mind in your head... and a working heart... you can be smart, wise as anyone else. So dare to doubt and dare to question... but do not disrespect life as it can take you so far away that u'll never find your way back to our beautiful green and blue planet called "earth".
Thank's comrade!

[gmi serbia]

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9683/kosovo5b5d3ne.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

Table of killed/captured pilots/soldiers during the aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia & Montenegro)



No. Day Time Location Type of aircraft and number of dead/captured pilots/soldiers
1. 26.03. 17:20 village Donja Trnova, 15km southwest of Bijeljina, Republic of Srpska American F-15E. Crew (2) was killed. The plane was shot down by a MiG-21.
2. 27.03. around 1:00 Mt. Maljen German Tornado. Crew (2) ejected and landed in the vicinity of the village Konjevici, near Cacak, where they were captured
3. 27.03. around 3:20 area between Vrutak and Kremna, near Uzice SFOR helicopter with 22 soldiers on board. After a short gunfight with the Yugoslav infantry unit, helicopter was destroyed by Strela-2M portable SAM. No survivors.
4. 28.03. 2:50 Zabrdje, near Bijeljina Most probably an American F-15. Pilot was killed. Some sources say that it was in fact an F-117!
5. 3:00 near Bijeljina SFOR helicopter HH-60 Pave Hawk with 12 soldiers on board. Only two crew members survived
6. 29.03. 1:30 near Pale, Republic of Srpska Some sources say that it was either F-15 or F-16, American. Pilot ejected but found dead later on. His neck was broken
7. 30.03. around 1:00 near Virpazar British Harrier. Pilot ejected but was soon captured
8. 31.03. 18:00 Rescue helicopter with 20 commandos on board
9. 22:45 Mt. Tara NATO rescue helicopter CH-53 with 25 commandos. No survivors
10. 31.03. Sirig, north of Novi Sad German Tornado. Crew (2) ejected and captured shortly after that
11. 01.04. 1:00 Mt. Tara NATO (possibly SFOR) helicopter CH-53 Stallion with 25 crew members. No survivors
12. 03.04. 19:45 Novi Sad Aircraft damaged during the attack on Novi Sad's bridge "Most Slobode". Airplane crashed near Stara Pazova. Pilot captured
13. 05.04. 21:00 Mt. Fruska Gora One NATO plane downed. Pilot ejected near 'Pobeda' factory and was soon captured. Most likely F-117A
14. 20:00 Novi Sad During the attack on Novi Sad's "Zezelj" bridge, one German Tornado was shot down. Crew (2) ejected and was captured shortly after
15. 06.04. 11:10 Mt. Skopska Crna Gora Two NATO SAR helicopters with 40 commandos on board. No survivors
16. after midnight Yugoslav-Albanian border (Montenegro) NATO helicopter with 20 soldiers and one rescued pilot on board. No survivors
17. 07.04. before midnight near Novi Sad Belgian F-16D. 42 year old pilot and 28 years old female co-pilot captured. Plane was shot down by Aleksandar Sunjka with 20mm AAA
18. 08.04. after midnight near Nis German Tornado. Crew (2) captured
19. 12.04. 21:30 village Osmaci, near Tuzla British Sea Harrier. Pilot killed. Aircraft was hit over Zrenjanin, where it jettisoned its fuel tanks
20. 13.04. after midnight near Srbinje (ex Foca), Bosnia Pilot killed
21. 14.04. 10:00* Sirig, north of Novi Sad Aircraft crashed near Kamendin agronomic well. Pilot ejected and captured
22. 15.04. 19:35 Podgorica French Mirage 2000. Airplane shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic, with L70 Bofors. Plane crashed on Rumija mountain. Pilot ejected and captured shortly after. According to some other info, plane was shot own by Lt. Goran Ratkovic
23. 19:45 near Podgorica One NATO aircraft shot down by soldier Predrag Dzonic with Strela-2M portable SAM. Pilot ejected and landed in the village of Kruse where he was captured
24. 17.04. 14:30 Urosevac Airplane crashed 4 km into Macedonian territory, near the village Tanusevci. Pilot killed
25. 22.04. 1:20 Lipovica, near Belgrade Rescue helicopter. Crew (?) killed, helicopter captured
26. 24.04. Mt. Kukavica, near Leskovac Pilot captured
27. 29.04. 11:15 Samokov, 40 km southwest of Skopje According to stories of eyewitnesses, the crew of two was found carbonized
28. 02.05. 12:15 Umka, near Belgrade According to eyewitnesses, two parachutes seen in the sky. From reliable sources, one pilot, an American, around 30-years old was captured in Mostanica, after 2 hours of pursuit. He was on a recon mission to photograph a bridge in Ostruznica
12:20
29. 05.05. morning 75 km northeast of Tirana AH-64 Apache. Pilot and gunner killed. NATO's classified report cited a SAM hit as a possible reason for the crash
30. 07.05. between
3:43 and 4:30 area around Nis One plane crashed near Leskovac. Reports say that captured pilot was Canadian (probably CF-18 Hornet)
31. 13.05. around 5:00 Rakovica, near Belgrade Rescue helicopter captured. 17 soldiers killed, 3 captured
32. 13.05. 14:23 Stara Pazova One French Mirage (probably Mirage 2000) shot sown. Pilot captured
33. 17.05. 15:30 area between Brestovik and Smederevo One French Mirage 2000 that crashed on a highway Belgrade-Obrenovac. Pilot ejected and captured shortly after
34. 20.05. 4:00 Mt. Cer, southwest of Sabac One B-52H Stratofortress shot down along with its entire crew (5)
35. 28.05. 0:50 Nis Aircraft crashed several kilometers northwest of Nis. Pilot killed
36. 29.05. 15:45 Nis Aircraft hit over the city. Plane headed for Sicevo, east of Nis but exploded on route. Pilot killed
37. 30.05. 1:45 south of Nis F/A-18 Hornet. Pilot killed
38. 30.05. 1:45 south of Nis F/A-18 hornet. Pilot ejected and was captured near Zitni Potok, south of Prokuplje


Map of killed/captured pilots/soldiers during the aggression against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia


Explanation:

• number by "X" is serial number in the table
• number between borders "(number)" is number of dead/captured pilots/soldiers

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9819/yumapkilledandcaptured4oy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

A-10A

http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/1556/a10down01treca5sl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/6417/a10wreck02cetvrta7ys.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/224/a10wreck03prva4lo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

SERBIAN AIR BASE BATAJNICA 1999.

This is one of the reinforced aircraft hangars at Batajnica airbase attacked by NATO aircraft during the war. The entrance to the hangar was closed by blast doors, which were penetrated by a laser-guided bomb. The two holes in the "roof" of the hangar are designed to dissipate the force of the explosion if a bomb hits the hangar. If you look closely, you will notice a tunnel inside the hangar leading to your right. This is where the planes are hidden. The T-shaped hangar directs the blast from the bomb hitting the entrance to the hangar away from the planes inside the tunnel

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9072/tunnelmig21aprvaslika7ud.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is a photograph of the same hangar from inside the main tunnel. You can see a MiG-21 fighter in the foreground. This photo was taken one day before the end of the war, after the attack pictured in the photo above. No aircraft inside the tunnel was damaged. Photos on this page put in perspective Air Forces Monthly's lengthy and detailed but mostly erroneous analyses of NATO satellite and aerial reconnaissance photos picturing the results of attacks against Batajnica and other Yugoslav airbases

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/2356/tunnelmig21b0lu2slika8jy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This MiG-21 line-up photo was taken at Batajnica airbase one day after the end of the war with NATO. These planes survived the conflict undamaged in the underground hangar that was attacked by NATO using laser-guided bombs. The strike against Batajnica base was reported by Aviation Week & Space Technology (June 14, 1999, page 73): "During one attack in early June, the US targeted an underground hangar with several aircraft inside. The facility was protected by blast doors and 90-deg. turn in the tunnel. The bombing was conducted so that the blast doors were broached and the bomb penetrated far enough that aircraft located around the bend in the tunnel were destroyed." Well, the photo to your left illustrates the outcome of this strike.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7645/mig21lineuptrecaslika6kl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This photo shows the remains of a MiG-21PfM destroyed during a bomb strike on Batajnica airbase. If you take a closer look at the tail fin of the aircraft you will see old Social Federative Republic of Yugoslavia Air Force markings. This plane and other old MiG-21s of this type were decommissioned in 1992-1993 and used during the war as decoys. Below you can find another photo of a MiG-21PfM being used as a decoy

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/1839/tunnelmig21c4slika2cb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Pure_sunni]

[quote=Pure_sunni]

hahaha ok, ok you are right, hahaha
if you say
and I must tell you, I glad becouse you read all my post's. Read, read and study .... you can learn more think's!
Thank you becouse that!

You wanted to control part of Croatia and Bosnia and you lost the war

[gmi serbia]

[quote=gmi serbia]

You wanted to control part of Croatia and Bosnia and you lost the war

This is not a theme? I am right ( corect )?
You never me needle!

Thank you again becouse read all my post's and themes.

[gmi serbia]

Some of NATO hits

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/3658/spisak9sw.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

EXCERPTS FROM THE STATEMENT MADE BY 3RD ARMY COMMANDER – MAJOR GENERAL NEBOJSA PAVKOVIC

The YA 3rd army managed to fully preserve material, technical and combat equipment in Kosovo and Metohija, and NATO suffered major losses in our territory. The men of the 3rd Army alone downed 16 aircraft, 5 helicopters, 46 cruise missiles and 4 drones. Because of the NATO aggression the people and the Army have practically become one, fully determined to defend their country. Albanian terrorist forces in Kosovo and Metohija have been disbanded and the very fact that NATO aggressors are forming new Albanian units in Albania and Macedonia and making every possible effort to infiltrate them into the country confirms this. We are ready, so let them come. In Kosovo and Metohija we now have more than 150.000 armed men. If only 30 percent of these muzzles makes a hit, this will be the price that the aggressor will pay should he try to intrude into our country. We are the army of all the nations and ethnic communities living in Kosovo and Metohija and that is exactly how we behave – general Pavkovic stressed adding that the morale of the troops is high as never before. He also underscored that the KosMet crisis can be settled through political negotiations with Kosmet Albanians, provided that the aggression on our country is terminated first.

[gmi serbia]

PICTURE FROM SERBIA 1999. to...

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/6779/finger1km.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

Details of the attack of Serbian aircraft on Tuzla airport in Bosnia-Herzegovina on April 18, 1999

________________________________________
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/121/tuzla8xu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
________________________________________
The Tuzla airport in Bosnia-Herzegovina (map) is used by NATO aircraft for emergency landings, as well as by NATO special rescue helicopters. The airport was also used by NATO SFOR troops for operations in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
On April 18, 1999 at 13:30 local time a strike force of nine Serian aircraft, consisting of one G-4 Super Galeb strike aircraft, six J-22 Orao strike aircraft, and two MiG-21 fighters, conducted a bombing run against the Tuzla airport. The attack was organized unofficially on the initiative of the Yugoslavian pilots involved. The strike was led by Major Stevan Zivojin Gavrilovic of the Yugoslavian Air Force, flying a G-4 Super Galeb and organized by Lt. Colonel Mihaljo V. from Kragujevac, flying one of the Oraos. The strike was initiated from the Ponikve airbase near the town of Uzice (map), approximately 120km away from Tuzla. The group of Yugoslav aircraft followed a route along the border between Yugoslavia and Bosnia-Herzegovina at an altitude of 800m and crossed the border somewhere between the towns of Bratunac and Zvornik.
Several minutes before the attack the Ponikve base informed the strike group that they were spotted by NATO forces and the strike group was advised to discontinue its operation. The suggestion was disregarded and the strike group proceeded with the planned attack. The Yugoslavian aircraft did not encounter any air or ground opposition during their approach to the Tuzla airport. The main radar at the Tuzla airport was not operational due to a technical malfunction (or, according to other sources, due to a diversion). It was known that beside a several damaged NATO aircraft and rescue helicopters, a group of additional 10 NATO aircraft arrived to the Tuzla airport for operations against Yugoslavia, which prompted the improvised strike by Yugoslavian planes.
A group of four NATO aircraft were detected at the far end of the Tuzla airport, preparing for takeoff. The lead G-4 released its bombs at the group of several damaged NATO planes positioned at the right side of the runway and immediately turned his aircraft back toward the border. Three Oraos did the same, while the three remaining Oraos conducted a precision strike. The two MiG-21s were to provide the strike group with air cover during the withdrawal, in case any of the NATO planes managed to take off.
The Orao piloted by Lt. Colonel Mihaljo V. was targeted and destroyed by a NATO SAM. One of the MiG-21s, piloted by Major Zeljko M. from Novi Sad, was hit by a SAM as well, but the pilot managed to land the aircraft 10km from Ponikve airbase. NATO lost 17 aircraft and three rescue helicopters on the ground. However, it is not known how many of those 17 aircraft were operational prior to the strike (as was mentioned earlier, NATO aircraft used the Tuzla airport for emergency landings.)
* * *
Venik
April 30, 1999
P.S. This information comes from private sources, details about which I cannot reveal. You have a choice of either taking this information seriously or disregarding it completely. It is totally up to you. I just want to stress that this information wouldn't have made it on my web site if I did not think that it was accurate.
NEW: Several people, who have either friends or relatives living in Tuzla, have e-mailed me saying that a series of loud explosions were heard coming from the Tuzla airport at the reported time of the attack.
NEW: According to an ITAR-TASS review of the article published by the Foreign Military Review magazine of the Russian Defense Ministry, Yugoslav aviation prevented the use of American AH-64 Apache attack helicopters during the Kosovo conflict. The "NATO Losses in the War with Yugoslavia" article, the Foreign Military Review writes: "... the biggest sensation was the number of troops lost by NATO. Not just NATO pilots were killed in Yugoslavia, but also search-and-rescue troops that were tasked with locating downed pilots. Yugoslav air defenses have shot down no less than five NATO helicopters, which resulted in deaths of about 100 troops of the Alliance."
According to the Foreign Military Review, the reason why Pentagon did not use Apaches in Kosovo "...had nothing to do with technical problems with the helicopters or insufficient training of their flight crews, as was often stated by NATO officials. The only reason was the April 26 attack carried out by Yugoslav "Galeb" fighters against "Rinas" airport located near Albania's capital of Tirana, where the Apaches were based. That day two groups of these light helicopters were destroyed and over 10 helicopters were damaged."
A similar operation was carried out by Yugoslav AF on April 18 against the airport in Tuzla, Bosnia, used as an emergency landing site for NATO aircraft. As the result of this attack some fifteen NATO aircraft have been destroyed on the ground. The Foreign Military Review writes: "Despite the fact that American aircraft dominated NATO operations, they weren't the only aircraft shot down by Yugoslav air defenses. Among the destroyed aircraft were five German "Tornadoes," several British "Harriers'" two French "Mirages," Belgian, Dutch, and Canadian aircraft. On June 7 the USAF lost a B-52 strategic bomber, while on May 20 a B-2A "Spirit" was shot down."
________________________________________

[Jadeite]

When the opening post lists cruise missiles of all things as NATO casualties, I'm rather inclined not to trust it.

[gmi serbia]

When the opening post lists cruise missiles of all things as NATO casualties, I'm rather inclined not to trust it.
Hello,
read all this theme "...NATO bombing/losses...", but if you dont belive ok is your think. But is normal to NATO hide this think, but not much today.
I dont say NATO loss the war only some plains and missels...
Bye:)

[GER_Mark]

It'sall true! In reality Sadam is still ruling Baghdad !

[gmi serbia]

It'sall true! In reality Sadam is still ruling Baghdad !

I give in this site number of evidence and argument. I dont write this texts I copy text and pics and prescribe all, but who want belive,belive, who not ok.
But you must to know this stuff you can not watch 1999. on yours TV...it's normal. BBC or CNN...never put this stuff 1999. and something like dead Americans in Vietnam (then), Americans soldier, British...in Iraq...or any losses in wars specialy agression...

[gmi serbia]

SA-9 Strela (СА-9 Стрела)

Above is a picture of a Serbian SA-901 ("STRELA"-СТРЕЛА) surface-to-air missile launcher. This one in particular is located in Kosovo, one of the most bombarded regions in Serbia during the period of NATO aggression. This SA-901 is one of many in the Serbian army arsenal. As you can see under the serial number (22260) there are two stenciled airplane logos. Each of these represent a plane which this SA-901 has shot down. As you can also see, this SA-901 is sub-terrainean and grass camoflauge cover is easily placed over it to avoid being seen by imagery satellites. If this SA-901 alone took out 2 NATO aircraft, and incidentaly, NATO only reported 2 losses during the duration of the entire war (one of which was the F117-A shot down over Vojvodina), how many other planes were shot down that you think they never told us about?

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7070/sa901edu7mv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

Fun massage to Serbs from NATO 1999.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3065/karikatura19994jl.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[GER_Mark]

If this SA-901 alone took out 2 NATO aircraft, and incidentaly, NATO only reported 2 losses during the duration of the entire war (one of which was the F117-A shot down over Vojvodina), how many other planes were shot down that you think they never told us about?

http://www.network54.com/Realm/SmilesWAFF/smilies0264.gif

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

It seems the Serbian forces were pretty impressive. They put a strong fight against NATO. ((( Ok, I deleted what I wrote here, the guy is a guest on this forum. I agree, the Bosnian thing isn't his fault)))), eh?

[Turk]

It seems the Serbian forces were pretty impressive. They put a strong fight against NATO. It must have been very easy to slaughter so many Bosians, eh?He's a guest here, I don't think it's right to talk like that. It's not his fault.

[Turk]

Serbia seems to have inflicted heavy casualties on NATO, wow!

[gmi serbia]

Serbia seems to have inflicted heavy casualties on NATO, wow!

My comrade,
each people must fight for own country and freedom, may be not win but must to fight!

[Turk]

My comrade,
each people must fight for own country and freedom, may be not win but must to fight!Definitely. :)

[iCQ]

Here in the Dutch news i heard last sunday (radio 2) that many Serbs still not know the "real truth" on what happend on their doorsteps (or around the corner). While we Dutch Bat soldiers already got the blame for 'it all'. It is almost too hilarious for words... if not many children died from it. Sorry guys: PEACE ON!

(Let us watch the Den Hague Tribunural once *he gets caught!)

*he=the man or woman who is the blame for all those innocent deaths. Take your pick please!

[gmi serbia]

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6823/avion41wy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[MiG 31]

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6823/avion41wy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

akkkheeeyyy!! lol the freedom fighter of serbia...

[gmi serbia]

Captured US soldiers during aggression on Serbia 1999

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1613/01042672zt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/4687/musurcin01jpg9xs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/1515/musurcinberetta01jpg8vo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/6153/musurcinberetta02jpg3vx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/1153/vojnici0104am0rc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5921/vojnici0104bm2rc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

Fly gear and equipment of captured NATO pilot in Serbian Aeronautical museum...

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8168/musurcinpilotgear03jpg0oh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7523/musurcinpilotgear01jpg5gk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3435/musurcinpilotgear04jpg1pm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7374/musurcinpilotgearjpg2qe.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

...more souveniers from NATO 1999. in Serbian Aeronautical museum...

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/3066/musurcina1003jpg9jv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/9062/musurcinalarm01jpg1pl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/5369/musurcina1002jpg9ri.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/1080/musurcincrecerelle01jpg0kf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5536/musurcinf117jpg1un.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[gmi serbia]

More pics from Serbian Aeronautical museum

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2643/muf16cgmissions1gl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7822/muf117canopy1zn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8011/muf16cglantirn3jp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Pilot gear
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2343/muf117pilotgear7ny.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4123/muf117ejectionseat3oh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9205/muf117engine2pj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

WELLCOME IN THE SERBIAN AERONAUTICAL MUSEUM

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Shooting own the F-117 Nighthawk sure was impressive. I can't say I believe the rest. I'd like to believe the Apache was shot down, but as I stated in another thread, Serbian soldiers look very much like American or other NATO ones.

But 3 B2-Spirit losses is most definitely ********.

The fact that those 3 captured soldiers were wearing ground troop Battle Dress Uniforms means that NATO must have sent some ground troops into Yugoslavia.

[GER_Mark]

sure nato had special forces in there, that was the first fighting action for the german ksk

why does serbia resigned?

i mean they killed 30% of nato airfleet and barely had any looses ! why give up ?

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Serbia suffered civilian casualties and important civilian and economic targets were bombed.

[sagem]

The Serbs shot down one F-16 , one F-117 and a Predator UAV. That's it.

The Apache Longbow pictured in a previous post crashed during a training exercise in mountainous terrain over Albania.

All the other "aircraft" shotdown were drones.

[Snauhi]

you wont convince him...

[sagem]

No I won't, but I'm glad to hear the Serbian perspective, and they at least they managed to shoot down a stealth craft, a quite notable achievement.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Agreed. I believe even American air-defense systems would have trouble shooting down hostile F-16s, F-15s, F/A-18s, Tornados or let alone F-117s.

[GER_Mark]

all the planes above exept the f117 would be fresh meat for american patriots

didnt they shoot down a british tornado accidentially ?

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

all the planes above exept the f117 would be fresh meat for american patriots

didnt they shoot down a british tornado accidentially ?

Note how I said HOSTILE planes.

The British Tornado wasn't expecting to meet with AA in Kuwaiti territory.

Patriots only shot down very few Scud missiles in 1991.

[GER_Mark]

patriots shot down about 150 iraqi cruise missiles in gw 2

only one hit a shopping center, wich was just a lucky hit

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

I didn't know that. Do you have links to support this? Are you sure they were cruise missiles and not ballistic ones (like the Scud for example)

[Hellas]

Your thread was great... I am not sure if all the facts are true, but it does show that the West can be hurt. I am glad to see some people not blindly trusting the media and questioning world events. I fell sorrow for what the people of Yugoslavia, who have had to live through this barbaric event. The UN has no right to intervene and attempt to keep the peace, those Smurfs could not keep peace in a school yard let alone a country like Serbia. I would also like to ask you about your thoughts on the untimely death of Milosovich?

[GER_Mark]

I am glad to see some people not blindly trusting the media and questioning world events.

Thats Serbian media, war propaganda not more

[Hellas]

Thats Serbian media, war propaganda not more

I am sure you know that propaganda goes both ways. I know those numbers are way over inflated, but it is also reasonable to think that NATO is hiding and over inflating their air victory.

[Turk]

Your thread was great... I am not sure if all the facts are true, but it does show that the West can be hurt.In case you didn't know.. Hellas = part of the West!

[Hellas]

In case you didn't know.. Hellas = part of the West!

WOW, you don’t say. It’s obvious that Greece is considered as a western country. Even though they are part of NATO and considered a western country they did not participate in the war, they were also reluctant to even opening their air space and allowing troops into Greece. I would also have to argue that Turkey is a western country, they are part of NATO, have been begging to join the EU, and during the cold war allowed Americans to station missiles on their land, and accepted the Trumen Doctrine.

[Turk]

WOW, you don’t say. It’s obvious that Greece is considered as a western country. Even though they are part of NATO and considered a western country they did not participate in the war, they were also reluctant to even opening their air space and allowing troops into Greece. I would also have to argue that Turkey is a western country, they are part of NATO, have been begging to join the EU, and during the cold war allowed Americans to station missiles on their land, and accepted the Trumen Doctrine.I found it funny to hear a Westerner saying: "It shows that the West can be hurt". :D

Are there a lot of Greeks who have negative feelings towards the West? LOL :)

[Hellas]

I found it funny to hear a Westerner saying: "It shows that the West can be hurt". :D

Are there a lot of Greeks who have negative feelings towards the West? LOL :)

Don’t get me wrong I have zero negative feelings towards the west, to the best of my knowledge there are not to many Greeks that are completely anti-west. This can not go without saying that they are critical thinkers about issues and rarely take things for face value. Just interested to find out, what part of Turkey are you from?

[Turk]

Don’t get me wrong I have zero negative feelings towards the west, to the best of my knowledge there are not to many Greeks that are completely anti-west. This can not go without saying that they are critical thinkers about issues and rarely take things for face value. Just interested to find out, what part of Turkey are you from?I was born in the Netherlands and have been living here for all my life. My parents are from central Turkey.. the province is called "Konya".

EDIT: And where are you from?

[Hellas]

I was born in the Netherlands and have been living here for all my life. My parents are from central Turkey.. the province is called "Konya".

EDIT: And where are you from?

I have a similar situation, I was born and raised in Canada, My parents are from around Kalamata or Calamata.

[Turk]

I have a similar situation, I was born and raised in Canada, My parents are from around Kalamata or Calamata.Ah in the beautiful region of Peloponessos. Man, you should go back to Greece.. it's no longer a third world country. ;)

[Hellas]

[QUOTE=Turk]Ah in the beautiful region of Peloponessos. Man, you should go back to Greece.. it's no longer a third world country. ;)[/QUO

Ya, after the civil war ended the infrastructure really started to develop. It would be nice but my Greek is not that great, it’s too difficult to leave and start a new life. How about you, not interest in going back to Turkey?

[Turk]

Ya, after the civil war ended the infrastructure really started to develop. It would be nice but my Greek is not that great, it’s too difficult to leave and start a new life. How about you, not interest in going back to Turkey?I don't think so.. Turkey is still too backward. :D

[gmi serbia]

Thats Serbian media, war propaganda not more
Yes but America and West have too very very strong and dirth propaganda.Thath know all world!;)
And you people dont must belive in text and pics what I sand but they talk more from word's.
You only see pics and...enjoy!!

[gmi serbia]

Serbian police 1999. on combat mission

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/7379/042nc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/2801/auf20der20jagd20nach20siptarn9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/4445/elite20soldat85lr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/2457/elite20soldaten8ta.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8201/elite20soldaten26pq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[isr agent]

camo ak-47! me likes :D

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

camo ak-47! me likes :D
All rifles should have a camo pattern. I only see this very rarely in photos.

[gmi serbia]

Thats Serbian media, war propaganda not more

Ha ha ha propaganda, west is build propaganda like CNN, BBC,...:suspicious4:

[BlueFalcon109]

Ha ha ha propaganda, west is build propaganda like CNN, BBC,...:suspicious4:

dont forget fox news, lol this reminds me of a story about how the west tries to implement fear amoung the population. I was watching CNN and the reporter is like "we still have not confirmed if this new iranian short ranged missile can carry a nuclear payload" rofl who would be stupid enough to put a nuke on a short range missile?

[Sanchezz]

Serbian "brave" army....... picture from vukovar-croatia where serbs captured local hospital .. took all patients outside and executed them.This old man was later hanged by these "brave" serbs

on the other pic .... how "brave" serbian soldiers executed civilians

[Hellas]

Serbian "brave" army....... picture from vukovar-croatia where serbs captured local hospital .. took all patients outside and executed them.This old man was later hanged by these "brave" serbs

on the other pic .... how "brave" serbian soldiers executed civilians

"CIA-backed Kosovo Liberation Army guerrillas attached civilian targets in Kosovo in early 1999, openly announcing that they hoped the violence would provoke a harsh Serbian response that couild then be used to arounse populat western support for an attack on Serbia" P.28 Failed States by Noam Chomsky

So take your ******** holier then thou noble attitude out of here

[Sanchezz]

There is no excuse for killing civilians... serbs burnded down villages and anyone who they got in their hands would end up dead. As for you you are greek ... serbs and greeks = nearly the same thing. - so you support your orthodox brothers.

Stories about albanians "terrorist" hiding near civilians if idiotic.They were in civilian cities because serbs were destroying and killing evrything if front of them.

[spirit]

For all Serbia won war against NATO and US!!!



E procitao sam i ovo, nego nisam hteo da se ubacujem.

[Sanchezz]

yes yes offcourse. ..... NATO made u retreat and damaged 40% of countrys economy without setting a foot on it :)

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

For all Serbia won war against NATO and US!!!



E procitao sam i ovo, nego nisam hteo da se ubacujem.Serbia lost hundreds of civilians, dozens of troops and retreated from Kosovo, while NATO lost nobody and advanced into Kosovo...Then again, Saddam always claimed his country won the 1991 Gulf War.

[Sarajevo071]

For all Serbia won war against NATO and US!!!

E procitao sam i ovo, nego nisam hteo da se ubacujem.

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHA!!!! Every war you started you lost!! Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo... And Serbia smaller and smaller... :laugh4:

[spirit]

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHA!!!! Every war you started you lost!! Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo... And Serbia smaller and smaller... :laugh4:

For your information Serbia only (officially) fought on Kosovo.

[Sarajevo071]

For your information Serbia only (officially) fought on Kosovo.

And for your information, (officially) we bosnians cought many serbians in Bosnia during the war... Also, it was Serbia dominated Army who attacked Slovenia, losted since they didn't care much for it (no serbs there) and then waged war on Croatia mixing they regular amry units with serbian nationalist from Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia... In April 1992. those special units who attacked Sarajevo (and got tear apart in the streets) was paratrooper units from Serbia, and in June 1992. those special units atacking and killed in region of football field in Grbavica was from Serbia...

There is many examples that one who is mature and spend time there can tell you... But, after even B92 comming out with that footage of Serbian units killing inocent civilians in Srebrenica or Serbian church priests blessing nationalist units from Serbia going to fight in Bosnia, I believe you do know all that.

[riotcity]

the captured american soldiers ... lol they are from the 1. infantrie devision, when i was a member of the german army, i did guard duties in their baracks ^^.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

the captured american soldiers ... lol they are from the 1. infantrie devision, when i was a member of the german army, i did guard duties in their baracks ^^.What captured American soldiers? Is your nickname from the song by Twisted Nixon?

[riotcity]

these us soldiers (http://www.irandefence.net/showpost.php?p=19989&postcount=77) see the "1" on the uniform and look here (http://www.1id.army.mil/)


no i got my name from a local music-label called riotcity-records ;)

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Where you based near Stetten am kalten Markt by any chance?

Do riotcity release mostly punk rock?

[riotcity]

yeah for the first three months i was based in mengen, not too far from stetten. after that i was based in Lechfeld/JaBoG 32

no that label releases hiphop, but before that it was a political project, pushing hiphop/dnb or punk rock partys

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Guarding Tornadoes? :D Oh wait no, you said you were guarding the 1st Infantry Division.

A friend of mine was based in Stetten and he said he'd often run into US soldiers from said division, who he claimed were in much worse physical condition than his Panzergrenadiere unit :D.

[riotcity]

^^ i was in the 3.ObjSStf JaBoG 32 having big fun there guarding tornados and aiming at them ;). when i was there they made a big fun out of it starting at 5am ( 1st inf. div.) singing and marching through the barracks to annoy us german soldiers ;). but "the first" is just cannon fodder, they are nothing more like this. i was in several american bases, but this was the worst one. i was in garmisch-partenkirchen, facilities for officers and foreign generals, and the food was sooooo good there. not comparable to "the first" facilities.

[DeepEyes]

Serbs did not win the war in 1999 against NATO.Wictorious army do not retreat.Also NATO didn't win, because UN troops came to Kosovo, not NATO(they didn't achieve what they want).They almost did.

About NATO's shot down planes: when you hit plane with rocket,plane explodes,burns and fall form 10 000 meters.What is left from the plane is wrack,and it is wery hard to see what is it.Also Serbia is mostly cover with forests,hills and Mountains,and is hard to find shut downed planes.Yugoslavian army in 1999,fight bravely,and show capabillities of a small well trained army,although they had wery old weapons (AA guns,missiles,radars...),they succeed to shot down about 60 NATO warplanes.NATO Force is not perfect!Any army could achieve what YU Army did.

I don't like Iran,but if NATO attacks them,I pray for Iran to win!

Sorry for Bad english.

[Hellas]

Serbs did not win the war in 1999 against NATO.Wictorious army do not retreat.Also NATO didn't win, because UN troops came to Kosovo, not NATO(they didn't achieve what they want).They almost did.

About NATO's shot down planes: when you hit plane with rocket,plane explodes,burns and fall form 10 000 meters.What is left from the plane is wrack,and it is wery hard to see what is it.Also Serbia is mostly cover with forests,hills and Mountains,and is hard to find shut downed planes.Yugoslavian army in 1999,fight bravely,and show capabillities of a small well trained army,although they had wery old weapons (AA guns,missiles,radars...),they succeed to shot down about 60 NATO warplanes.NATO Force is not perfect!Any army could achieve what YU Army did.

I don't like Iran,but if NATO attacks them,I pray for Iran to win!

Sorry for Bad english.

how did you come up with this number of 60 shot down warplanes?

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

^^ i was in the 3.ObjSStf JaBoG 32 having big fun there guarding tornados and aiming at them ;). when i was there they made a big fun out of it starting at 5am ( 1st inf. div.) singing and marching through the barracks to annoy us german soldiers ;). but "the first" is just cannon fodder, they are nothing more like this. i was in several american bases, but this was the worst one. i was in garmisch-partenkirchen, facilities for officers and foreign generals, and the food was sooooo good there. not comparable to "the first" facilities.Also better than food you got in Basic Training, I imagine :D

[DeepEyes]

It is not precise number.Something about 60 planes,helicopters.I search on internet,read some books... for example:during Yugoslav attack on the Tuzla's emergency airport on 1999, Yugoslav air force destroy about 15 NATO planes on ground. You know that in third day of NATO agression F-117 was shot down.So it is possible to shut down NATO's planes, especialy when they fly on 3 000 m (to make precise attack).Helicopters was especialy vulnerable also.

[DeepEyes]

And for your information, (officially) we bosnians cought many serbians in Bosnia during the war... Also, it was Serbia dominated Army who attacked Slovenia, losted since they didn't care much for it (no serbs there) and then waged war on Croatia mixing they regular amry units with serbian nationalist from Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia... In April 1992. those special units who attacked Sarajevo (and got tear apart in the streets) was paratrooper units from Serbia, and in June 1992. those special units atacking and killed in region of football field in Grbavica was from Serbia...

There is many examples that one who is mature and spend time there can tell you... But, after even B92 comming out with that footage of Serbian units killing inocent civilians in Srebrenica or Serbian church priests blessing nationalist units from Serbia going to fight in Bosnia, I believe you do know all that.

War in former Yugoslavia started when Slovenian nationalists attacked and killed solders of regular Yugoslav army "JNA" (means Yugoslav Peoples Army)on Yugoslav-Austrian border in order to illegaly get independence.In that time JNA was one of the strongest army in Europe, and there is no possible that Slovenian hunters,police and fire department defeats JNA.JNA could wipe out all Slovenia in one day!Later Yugoslav government recognize Slovenia as independed country, and retret all forces.
JNA was under controll of Communist Party of Yugoslavia (KPJ).So JNA was under controll of Serb,Croatian,Slovenian,Bosnian,Montenegrian and Macedonian govnment.
Slovenian independence was fine by Serbs,because there were no Serbs in Slovenia,or wery small number of Serbs.But Croatia wanted conflict.Croatia was not redy to separate,and they want to postpone Slovenian independence,later they can together separate from yugoslavia.It would be much easily, then to separate one by one.

Croatia.What Croatian fschists and nationalists didn't succed in 1941 (creation of NDH, Independent Country of Croatia) with support of Nazi Germany,they succed in 1995.In Croatia 1991 lived about 1 000 000 Serbs nad 4 000 000 Croatians. If Croatian people want to separate form Yugoslavia,why you don't let Serbian people to separate from Croatia? Now there is 300 000 Serbian refugees from Croatia. They live in Serbia now.


About Bosnia, war in Bosnia, was war between 3 sides, Croatians,Serbs and people who now call themself "Bosnjaci" ( Serbs and Croatians who become muslims during 15-16 century,first they called thenself Muslims,Bosnians and finaly they called themselfs "Bosnjaci").They all lived in Bosnia for centuries(in Bosnia 1991, lived Serbs 31%; Muslims 42%; Croatians 17%;) .So Serbia did NOT attack Bosnia.War in Bosnia started when Croatians and Muslims want independet coutries, and Serbs don't want to separate from Yugoslavia.

[Sanchezz]

Deepeyes... those are all lies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_war - bosnia was full of paramilitary and volonteer units from serbia ... also serb officers in bosnia were payed from belgrade.... all weapons in hands of serbs in bosnia were given from goverment of serbia.Yugoslavia fell apart because serbs tried to establish rule of the serbs in it... Yugoslavia slowly started turning into Serboslavia... 78% of the YNA were serbs .. (totaly unproportional to the number of serbs in yugoslavia) al important politicians in yugoslavia were serbs and thing were moving to worse and worse... at the end bosniac,croat and slovenian presence in the parliament and military was reduced to minor levels ... Serbs wanted yugoslavia to fell apart ... because their nationalism was skyrocketing and they let slovenia go because there were no serbs there .... in bosnia and croatia there was a serb minority and they planed to annex bosnia and take big part of croatian territory.

here is the map of their plan .... so called " great serbia "
darker red is planned great serbia http://nemabloga.blog.hr/slike/216973.gif

and this is what they got .
http://www.infobus.org/images/serbia_map3.gif

[DeepEyes]

Yea,right!
Who were these forces that attacked Yugoslav army in Slovenia,Croatia and Bosnia.Who killed Yugoslav solders on Slovenian-Austrian border? Slovenia,Croatia and Bosnia was full of Croatian,Slovenian and Muslim paramilitary units,who continuosly attack solders of Yugoslavian Army (JNA).

Who fight against Bosnian Serbs in Bosnia?.Where do they get their weapons?Who payed their salary?

If Serbia attacked Bosnia why Muslims and Croatians in Bosnia fight against each other? Again, war in Bosnia was war between 3 sides Croatians,Muslims and Serbs, who lived there for centyries.Serbia didn't attack Bosnia.

If Croatians and Muslims had right to separate from Yugoslavia,why now you don't let Serbs to separate from Bosnia?


Croatian people wants to separate from Yugoslavia.It's fine by me, but give right to separate, to the Serbs who live in Croatia.There is about 1 000 000 Serbs in Croatia.

War in Former Yugoslavia began what paramilitary formations of Slovenians,Croatians and Muslims attacked Regular Yugoslav Army.

Yugoslav constitution from 1974, was first step in Yugoslav crisis.After that it was almost impossible to run the country.Constitution was wery bad,it was brought by Josip Broz TITO, and it was especialy bad for Serbs because it separate Serbia in 3 countries.Namely, Serb provinces: Kosovo and Vojvodina become almost independed countries.They could affect in Serbian parlament,but Serbian parlament couldn't affect in Vojvodina and Kosovo's parlament.It was a PARADOX!

Also industrialy strong parts of Yugoslavia like Slovenia,Croatia and Serbia payed a lot of money to help Bosnia,Macedonia and Montenegro they were poor. THAT's WHY SLOVENIA WANTS TO SEPARATE FROM YUGOSLAVIA!

[Sanchezz]

"If Croatians and Muslims had right to separate from Yugoslavia,why now you don't let Serbs to separate from Bosnia?


Croatian people wants to separate from Yugoslavia.It's fine by me, but give right to separate, to the Serbs who live in Croatia.There is about 1 000 000 Serbs in Croatia."

Because serbs in bosnia and croatia dont have republics and dont have federal countries .... While bosnia and croatia were republics in federal yugoslavia.. people voted on referendum and they voted for independence.So serbs started a military aggresion against both croatia and bosnia.And how do you think slovenia got out so easiliy....YNA was the 4th strongest army in europe ... its because serbs didnt want any part of slovenia.Serbia was divided into 3 parts .. not countries ... but autunomus regions... so that serbs couldnt overvote mostly muslim population in kosovo and big hungarian community in vojvodina.

[DeepEyes]

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Independent_State_of_Croatia_Map.jpg

This is a picture of Independent state of Croatia. 1941-1945 under help of Nazi Germany Croatian succeed in creation of this country.

[Sarajevo071]

HAhahaha!! Man, amount of crap you put here...

Sanchezz, buraz, why are you even talking with this vlah!?? Everyone can go and check history books about WWII and Yugo Wars and see how bias he is and how big liar... No need to be upset with him.

We know what's happend and we know who won and why. :laugh4:

[Sanchezz]

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Independent_State_of_Croatia_Map.jpg

This is a picture of Independent state of Croatia. 1941-1945 under help of Nazi Germany Croatian succeed in creation of this country.

and this is the picture of serbian soldiers together with wehrmacht soldiers in ww2..... most serbs fought against partisans hoping to establish kingdom of serbia allied with germany

[Imperator]

What about Ustasi u guys?

[Sanchezz]

i am bosniac as Sarajevo071 we didnt cooperate with the nazis except hanjar division wich was created to try to cooperate with germans to stop slaughter of unarmed bosniacs from chetniks.... Bosnians were mostly in titos partisans .

[DeepEyes]

Borders in former Yugoslavia was made by Josip Broz TITO.He was a dictator and also CROAT.His Communist pary rule Yugoslavia. How do you explain that Croatia get so much land where Serbs are majority.Why they do that?. TITO protect Croatian interests. Storys of "Great Serbia" was only alibi for anti-Serb politics.Then why Yugoslavia had to separate on borders that Croatians draw?That "federal republics" was just administrative units.Borders was not ethnic.

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Independent_State_of_Croatia_Map.jpg

On this site you can see what is aspirations of Croatians.In 1941-1945 with help of Nazi Germany they nearly succeed.



"Serbia was divided into 3 parts .. not countries ... but autunomus regions... so that serbs couldnt overvote mostly muslim population in kosovo and big hungarian community in vojvodina."

That authnomus regions in Serbia was practically country in the country.Like I said they could affect in Serbian parlament,but Serbian parlament couldn't affect in Vojvodina and Kosovo's parlament.It was a PARADOX,that province had more political power then country. That provinces exist before 1974, but after that they nearly become independed country. This is a claer example of anti-Serb politics of Josip Broz TITO.

"so that serbs couldnt overvote mostly muslim population in kosovo and big hungarian community in vojvodina."

So ti is ok that Muslims and Croatians can overvote Serbs in Bosnia, but Serbs can not overvote muslim population on kosovo and hungarian community in vojvodina.
Independence of Bosnia was brought in Bosnian parlament with out Serbs.

[Hellas]

Ustaša and bosnians both joined the Nazis....and worked with them... for you 2 say otherwise is just dumb

[DeepEyes]

Yea, Sarajevo 071, you should read history books.First resistance against Nazi Germany started in Serbia (Republic of Uzice),and after that "Republic of Bihac".Those "countries" were created where Serb people is majority.
On the other side, Croatians got their NDH, as gift from Nazi Germany for cooperation.

And Sarajevo071, "vlah" didnt forgot his religion and ancestors.You did!Can I call you "poturica".

If Serbia attacked Bosnia why Muslims and Croatians in Bosnia fight against each other?

[Sarajevo071]

Yea, Sarajevo 071, you should read history books.First resistance against Nazi Germany started in Serbia (Republic of Uzice),and after that "Republic of Bihac".Those "countries" were created where Serb people is majority.
On the other side, Croatians got their NDH, as gift from Nazi Germany for cooperation.

And Sarajevo071, "vlah" didnt forgot his religion and ancestors.You did!Can I call you "poturica".

If Serbia attacked Bosnia why Muslims and Croatians in Bosnia fight against each other?

:roflmao3:
I knew you will fall for this and show me you are SERB!! No wonder all this history distortion and "resources info"... You can call me "turk" you stupid serb, but you are too... After 500 years of Ottoman domination in Serbia where they made harems of serbian girls, you really think you can call your self a serb!? You are ONLY country who celebrating LOST battle and wars!!?

But, back on history... Since you are such a pool of knowledge, tell this fine people about serbian nationalistic movement who in fighting for Serbian king and lost domination in pre-WWII Yugoslavia, start fighting WITH Germans and how many jews and gypsies Serbian government killed while hosting German High Command in Belgrade!? Tell them how by the end of war, serbs change uniform and allied with Tito, and end up dominating in Government, Army and Police (even Tito was a "Croat", which they negating)... You just spend our time proofing that Serbs live in Croatia also, so Tito cold be Serb. Either way, he was a communist and with no religion. He was a nationalist, Yugoslavian Nationalist. But, enough of entertaining serbian trolls... You type what you want. I know what's happen on streets of Sarajevo and how we kill serbian soldiers and bosnian serbs... Don’t need to prove you anything. After 4 years of war, I prove your people enough.

Greetings from ex-member of Special Police Unit City of Sarajevo "LASTA" and ex-member of recon platoon 105th Mountain Brigade...

See you in next war, vlasino!

[Sanchezz]

U majku li mu cetnicku doso na iranski forum pa smrdi.
Most funny thing about the serbs..... They CELEBRATE the day when they lost the battle against ottoman empire on kosovo .... ottomans build a monument from serbian heads.. it still stands today. :)

[spirit]

Yea, Sarajevo 071, you should read history books.First resistance against Nazi Germany started in Serbia (Republic of Uzice),and after that "Republic of Bihac".Those "countries" were created where Serb people is majority.
On the other side, Croatians got their NDH, as gift from Nazi Germany for cooperation.

And Sarajevo071, "vlah" didnt forgot his religion and ancestors.You did!Can I call you "poturica".

If Serbia attacked Bosnia why Muslims and Croatians in Bosnia fight against each other?

I agreed whit you!

[DeepEyes]

You are not a "turk", don't insult turks! Your people were mostly Serbs and Croatians, who received Muslim religion in 15th century. So U think that you become new nation,but you dont know how to call youself.So first you use Muslims, then Bosnians and at the end Bosniaks.Pathetic. And as your ancestors betray their country then, you are going to betray that contry that you live in now.

"Poturici niko neveruje, ako je Turcin krvav do lakata, on mora biti do ramena!"

Becouse you are muslim, that doesn't mean that you are Turk. Turks have much more than religion.For example: culture,folklor,arhitecture,language,history... just like any nation.

Let's get clear.I don't have anything against muslim religion!It's just a religion, like Christianity,Budism...

Turks are people who fight against Serbs,Bulgarians,Greeks... in the middle century. They were so strong that they conquered all this people. And of corse, they take(abduckt) young Serbian,Bulgarian,Greek... childern into Turk army,and they become Turks. So in some way we are all cousins.


"You just spend our time proofing that Serbs live in Croatia also, so Tito cold be Serb. Either way, he was a communist and with no religion. He was a nationalist, Yugoslavian Nationalist."

Josip Broz TITO ,was a Croat (had a Croatian name), he vas born in town of Kumrovec,it's on the Slovenian-Coatian border(North Croatia),no Serbs lived there ever!Serbs live on the south and far east of Croatia.During WWI, he was not communist.He fight against Serbs(The Allies), and win medal for achievements in the battle at Serbian town of Loznica.And in WWI he came from Croatia to Belgrade and started resistance against Nazists. Why he doesn't do that in Croatia?.Who was that people in Belgrade who fight whith him?Croatians or Bosniaks mabye? Are they all came from Bosnia and Croatia into Serbia to fight?********!

My grandfather was partisan, and he was executed in Nazi Camp for Serbs in WWII.Serbia was under occupation of Nazi Germany during WWII,Germans in Serbia did what they want. But in NDH (Nazi Croatia) major camps for Serbs were built in parts of a country were Serbs are majority!It's interesting don't you think?

At the end, in WWI 1 200 000 Serbs die in the battle on Allies side. And 1 600 000 in WWII against Nazi Germany. It is almost 50% of Serbian population in that time.

If Serbia attacked Bosnia why Muslims and Croatians in Bosnia fight against each other?

I see that you don't have answer for this question.This iz 3-4th time that I asked.

Again, war in Bosnia was war between 3 sides Croatians,Muslims and Serbs, who lived there for centyries.Serbia didn't attack Bosnia.



And IRAN is a bright symbol of resistance to USA world domination.GO IRAN!

[DeepEyes]

U majku li mu cetnicku doso na iranski forum pa smrdi.
Most funny thing about the serbs..... They CELEBRATE the day when they lost the battle against ottoman empire on kosovo .... ottomans build a monument from serbian heads.. it still stands today. :)

Serbs, don't selebrate lost battles. They selebrate those people who died for freedom. About that monument, Turks built it 500 years after battle in Kosovo.It doesn't matter,when is it built.Go to Serbia and see it, it's still stands,in the town of Nis! Is there any greather symbol of fighting for freedom in the world?

[Sanchezz]

You are not a "turk", don't insult turks! Your people were mostly Serbs and Croatians, who received Muslim religion in 15th century. So U think that you become new nation,but you dont know how to call youself.So first you use Muslims, then Bosnians and at the end Bosniaks.Pathetic. And as your ancestors betray their country then, you are going to betray that contry that you live in now.

"Poturici niko neveruje, ako je Turcin krvav do lakata, on mora biti do ramena!"

Becouse you are muslim, that doesn't mean that you are Turk. Turks have much more than religion.For example: culture,folklor,arhitecture,language,history... just like any nation.

Let's get clear.I don't have anything against muslim religion!It's just a religion, like Christianity,Budism...

Turks are people who fight against Serbs,Bulgarians,Greeks... in the middle century. They were so strong that they conquered all this people. And of corse, they take(abduckt) young Serbian,Bulgarian,Greek... childern into Turk army,and they become Turks. So in some way we are all cousins.


"You just spend our time proofing that Serbs live in Croatia also, so Tito cold be Serb. Either way, he was a communist and with no religion. He was a nationalist, Yugoslavian Nationalist."

Josip Broz TITO ,was a Croat (had a Croatian name), he vas born in town of Kumrovec,it's on the Slovenian-Coatian border(North Croatia),no Serbs lived there ever!Serbs live on the south and far east of Croatia.During WWI, he was not communist.He fight against Serbs(The Allies), and win medal for achievements in the battle at Serbian town of Loznica.And in WWI he came from Croatia to Belgrade and started resistance against Nazists. Why he doesn't do that in Croatia?.Who was that people in Belgrade who fight whith him?Croatians or Bosniaks mabye? Are they all came from Bosnia and Croatia into Serbia to fight?********!

My grandfather was partisan, and he was executed in Nazi Camp for Serbs in WWII.Serbia was under occupation of Nazi Germany during WWII,Germans in Serbia did what they want. But in NDH (Nazi Croatia) major camps for Serbs were built in parts of a country were Serbs are majority!It's interesting don't you think?

At the end, in WWI 1 200 000 Serbs die in the battle on Allies side. And 1 600 000 in WWII against Nazi Germany. It is almost 50% of Serbian population in that time.

If Serbia attacked Bosnia why Muslims and Croatians in Bosnia fight against each other?

I see that you don't have answer for this question.This iz 3-4th time that I asked.

Again, war in Bosnia was war between 3 sides Croatians,Muslims and Serbs, who lived there for centyries.Serbia didn't attack Bosnia.



And IRAN is a bright symbol of resistance to USA world domination.GO IRAN!
........-------------------
Bosnains always existed....they were mainly christians and bogumils (christian sect that pope was persecuting) There is proff of that in a written document of Bosnian Ruler its called "Povelja Kulina Bana"
-Bosnia has its own culture and its proud of it ... multicultural enviroment .. in sarajevo in a cricle of 500meters you can find: orthodox church,jewish sinagogue,Catholic Church and a mosque.Bosnia has its own language that is similar to croatian and serbian, it is beain learned in all schools.
Serbs (chetniks) fought on axis side ... you can see that on the pics i attached... serbian chetniks and germans drinking together.. so tito fought them... And tito didnt come to serbia to fight against germans .. all 7 offensives against partisans by germans were conducted in bosnia..

and to answer your question about all 3 sides fighting in bosnia against each other ...
1.In 1992 bosnians and muslims were allied together to fight serbs who were killing and destrying evrything that is not serbian in front of them.In 1993 croats made a deal with the serbs - to stop fight between serbs and croats and to attack muslims together.After initial succes of croat forces against muslims ... muslims launched large scale offensive sorounding 4 big cities of croats:Vitez,Novi Travnik,Kiseljak and Busovaca. Also bosnians were gaining large territory by advancing to the south.After croats saw that they cannt beat muslims they came to a peace treaty .. un wich bosnians and croats will continue to fight together against the serbs (chetniks).One of the reasons for bosnian-croats to continue alliance with muslims was pressure from croatia... wich was in constant war with the serbs.Alliance between muslims and croats was reaffirmed by joint operation of croatian and bosnian army .. operation "Storm" In wich serbs in croatia were totaly defeated ... bosnians and croats met up in croatian territory after total victory in croatia... then operation storm continued ... bosnian army attacked serbs from the far west of bosnia with a force about 55 000 well armed and supported soldiers. .. serb lines disintegrated and serb soldiers that were fleeing from cities in front of bosnian army even left their civilians.. No civilian was harmed when bosnian army entered those cities (Sanski Most,Kljuc) and dayton agreement was signed when bosnians came to 20 Km west of Banja Luka (biggest serb held city).....

Raped bosnian girl ..
'She is half Croat, half Bosniak, and she is only 17. Her father had been killed. She said very little after arriving at the hospital. Later, though, she spoke of being imprisoned with her mother and two dozen other women in the basement of a municipal hall in her home town. Her jailers, Bosnian Serbs, raped her and the others and forced them to have sex with Bosnian Serb troops in the area. They had to watch each other being gang-raped each day for four months. When she became visibly pregnant, she was released. Her jailers said "Go bear our Serbian children". In Bosnia, rape was a weapon of combat. After she give birth, she refused to see the baby. The next day she was nowhere to be found; she hasn't contacted the hospital since. Nor does her name appear on the roll of witnesses to be called at the Hague tribunal.'

[Imperator]

Why u keep fighting each other just because u have different religion as u r both same blood? No one has to benefit just others outside baklans.

[Sanchezz]

We may have the same blood but things between us cant be solved easily... (someting like israel and palestine ) :)
Personaly for me as a bosnian there is no way im ever going to make peace with THEM.They massacred 8000 civilians in srebrenica in 4 days ! Cities of Foca and Visegrad suffered 11 genocides from serbian side in their history... not to mention their imperialistic view of serbia ! How can bosnians make peace with ppl who are trying to destroy them....

here is the map of their plan .... so called " great serbia "
darker red is planned great serbia http://nemabloga.blog.hr/slike/216973.gif

and this is what they got .
http://www.infobus.org/images/serbia_map3.gif
Edit/Delete Message

as i sayed before..... we bosnians now have good relations with the croats,montenegrians,slovenians and macedonians .... but Bosnians Croats and Slovenians hate Serbs because what they did and what they are trying to do !

Personaly i am bigger supporter of YUGOSLAVIA ... as a socialist country of ALL people living in it ... for gods sake we had the 4th largest army in europe .... And yust when yugoslavia was turning to democracy and boosting its economy even more ... serbs want to implement their supperiority over other peoples living in the yugoslavia...
I wish yugoslavia to be whole again.. but now its imposibble.

[gmi serbia]

Sorry but theme here is something else! Nato.....

[DeepEyes]

Yes, Bosnia real exists.Bosnians not! Bosnia was one of the first Serb or mabye Croatian countru.Serbs and Croatians lived there since 9. and 10. century.So Bosnia was just a name of the "province" just like provinces in other coutries,for example in England: Kent,Sussex,Hampshire...So on west balkans you had: Bosnia, Croatia, Pagania, Travunia, Duklja, Serbia, Hum, Slavonia, Hercegovina... When Serbs or Croatians win their independence from Byzantia, they called their countries with those names.Those were wery small countries.Aincent Bosnia was Mabye 20-30% of today Bosnia's land area. During time, Bosnia was in Serb or Croatian possesion or independent. So Bosnians was not nation in that time.People who today call himself Bosniaks are Muslims, and People who lived in 9. century in Bosnia was not.
Ok, if Bosniaks consider themself a nation, it's fine by me.But, their origin are Serb or Croatian.

Chetniks, fight against Axis and Pertisans. they were under Allies control, chetniks was anti-communists!So there was Serbs chetniks and partisans.Image that you attached doesn' prove anything.Serbs fight against Nazists!And over 1 600 000 Serbs die in combat or they have been killed in Nazi Prison camps.If they cooperate witn Nazists,why Nazists killed them?

"And tito didnt come to serbia to fight against germans .. all 7 offensives against partisans by germans were conducted in bosnia.."

HAH!!! FIRST, partisan's (TITO's) liberated land was in Serbia(Repubic of UZICE). TITO organized demonstrations against Nazists in Belgrade.He couldn't do it in Croatia, because Croatians was on Nazists side!Of course, later partisans started to fight in bosnia,but only when SERB partisans escaped from Serbia to Bosnia from NAZI over the IGMAN mountin.And there they formed new free teritory named "Republic of Bihac".



So you confess that Bosniaks and Croatians fight in Bosnia.They both form independent countries.Laiter they join and attack Serbs. So there was 3 sides in Bosnia War!

About action "Storm". As a sign of a GOOD will, Serbs in Croatia,retreat all heavy weaponry.America and Europe "promise" them seafty.With them all important Serb forces retreat. That use Croatians and Attack "Krayna" and expell 250 000 Serbs from Croatia.

[DeepEyes]

"here is the map of their plan .... so called " great serbia " "Something like that nevar existed.But NDH (Nazi Croatia) realy existed! here:

After WWI Allies(England,France...) offered to Serbia, to make that Country that you are showing.It was called "Londonian project of Serbia".Croats and Bosniaks was fighting with Germans so,Allies doesn't want to cooperate with Croatians and Bosniaks. They wanted to help Serbs.But
Serbia refused that plan and accept to make Yugoslavia.Idea of "Yugoslavia" came from Slovenia,Croatia and Bosnia. So Serbia,decided to join with Croatians,Slovenians and Bosniaks, and that's how Yugoslavia was created.(Serbs made big mistake). And that's how Croatians and Bosniaks "washed" their hands in WWI, and become Allies. So Serbia could make that "Great Serbia" but Serbs didn't do that.They accepted Yugoslavia as their country.So much of the serb nationalism.


"Personaly for me as a bosnian there is no way im ever going to make peace with THEM.They massacred 8000 civilians in srebrenica in 4 days "

In Srebrenica was missing(killed) over 1500 Serbs by Bosniaks, and in town of Baratunac(10km notrh of Srebrenica) over 3000 Serbs killed, Although region of Srebrenica should be NO military zone,under controll of UN, muslims have military units in Srebrenica all time.They attacked serbian willages and killed those people,and later go back under UN protection.What hapened in Srebrenica later, was consequence.

"Personaly i am bigger supporter of YUGOSLAVIA ... as a socialist country of ALL people living in it ... for gods sake we had the 4th largest army in europe .... And yust when yugoslavia was turning to democracy and boosting its economy even more ... serbs want to implement their supperiority over other peoples living in the yugoslavia... "

********!During 1980's economy of Yugoslavia was wery bad!Almost worst in history! And that is real reson for Yugoslavia crisis.Yugoslavia start to fall apart with constitution of 1974.Slovenia wants to separate in 1987!I written about it,go on previos pages and read it.
And Serbia was devided on 3 parts!This way almost 50% Serbs lived outside Serbia.Great politics.
Why Croatia didn't give autonomy to Serbs?Serbs was 30% of Croatia population.
With that constitution from 1974. Yugoslavia was everything but strong country.

So, there was great civil casulties on all 3 sides in Bosnia.Now if Bosniaks hate so much Serbs, why they want to live with Serbs in the same country? Serbs form fedaral unit "Republika Srpska" in Bosnia.Why Bosniaks won't let Serbs to separate?Serbs are 31% of Bosnias people.Why Bosniaks need over 1 200 000 Serbs in their country?

[DeepEyes]

Also Yugosavia was Communist country who cooperate with western countries:USA,France,England...
YU was great bridge between SSSR and USA (Warshaw pact and NATO). When SSSR fall apart, there was no reason for Yugoslavia to exist. USA,Germany,England,Vatikan use their influence to separate Yugoslavia.

And I agreed that Yugoslavia can't exist. There is so much hate between Balkans people.

[Sarajevo071]

:roflmao3: :laugh4: !!

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8829/tinfoilcatva3.jpg

[Sarajevo071]

History of the war in Bosnia
(Written May, 1996)

World War II to 1991
During World War II, armed groups claiming allegiance to various ethnic factions fought both against each other and against the Nazi occupiers. By 1945, almost 1 million Yugoslavs had lost their lives, most of them at the hands of other Yugoslavs. Croatian fascists (Ustashe) were the most notorious for killing Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Communists, and political opponents, but Serb Chetniks were also responsible for many mass killings. The Communist-led Partisans fought against both groups and were victorious (with Allied support) at the war's end. The Partisan leader, Josip Broz (Tito), ruled the country as a one-party socialist state.

Despite using repressive tactics and centralized control, Tito understood the importance of apportioning power evenly among the Yugoslav ethnicities. Under Communist rule, it was a serious crime to openly express ethnic aspirations of any kind.

After Tito's death in 1980, the nation slid into economic and political decline as a collective leadership began to squabble over power and the allocation of shrinking resources among the republics. With the final collapse of Communism in the 1980s, the restive population began seeking solutions to provide economic and political stability in a post- Cold War world. Unfortunately, the solution promoted by Serb and Croat extremists in this time of crisis was ethnic nationalism. Serbia's Communist Party leader, Slobodan Milosevic, began pandering to Serb nationalism, and quickly became the unchallenged ruler of Serbia. Through his control of the party apparatus and control of the media, he was able to become the most powerful figure in Yugoslavia, but despite his appeals to Serb national sentiment, his principal concern was with preserving his own control.

One of Milosevic's first acts was to change Serbia's constitution and void the autonomy of Kosovo. He began a campaign of repression against the ethnic Albanian Kosovars, making him a hero in the eyes of Serb nationalists throughout the former Yugoslavia.

Milosevic's attempts to seize control of the federal government and his repressive tactics in Kosovo drove the newly elected non-Communist governments of Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia to seek independence. The Yugoslav National Army (JNA) --with a predominantly Serb officers' corps --responded with brutal attacks supported by Serb nationalist militias in Croatia and Bosnia.

Ironically, when the war began in Croatia in 1991 and Bosnia in 1992, many Croats and Bosnians thought the Yugoslav National Army would protect them. They soon learned that the national army --the fourth largest in Europe --was clearly in the hands of Milosevic and being used to create Greater Serbia.

With Serb nationalists in control in Belgrade and Croat nationalists in power in Zagreb, Croatia voted to secede from Yugoslavia in 1991 to counter the plan for a Greater Serbia. Although Croat nationalists share responsibility for fanning ethnic tensions, it was Serbian forces who launched a savage military response to Croat independence, capturing and "cleansing" a third of Croatia, including eastern and western Slavonia, and the Krajina region adjacent to Bosnia.

In March 1992, Bosnia's Muslims and Croats, fearing the drive for a Greater Serbia, called for a referendum for Bosnian independence. Fierce propaganda from Serbia, depicting Muslims as extremist fundamentalists, caused many Bosnian Serbs to support Milosevic's plan for ethnic cleansing as a means of creating Greater Serbia. Since the Bosnian Serbs did not inhabit a single specific territory in Bosnia and lived alongside Muslim and Croat neighbors, the stage was set for war throughout the country.

On April 6, 1992, the Bosnian Serbs began their siege of Sarajevo. Muslim, Croat, and Serb residents opposed to a Greater Serbia were cut off from food, utilities, and communication. Through three long and cold winters, Sarajevans dodged sniper fire as they collected firewood and tried to get to their jobs. Food was scarce and the average weight loss per person was more than 30 pounds. More than 12,000 residents were killed, 1,500 of them children.

Throughout Bosnia, Bosnian Serb nationalists and the JNA began a systematic policy of "ethnic cleansing" (a polite term for genocide) to establish a "pure" Serb republic. They drove out all other ethnic groups by terrorizing and forcibly displacing non-Serbs through direct shelling and sniper attacks. Entire villages were destroyed. Thousands were expelled from their homes, held in detention camps, raped, tortured, deported, or summarily executed. Rape was a military tactic to destroy the bonds of families and communities.

Throughout the war, many Bosnians wanted to preserve a multiethnic state. But Serb and Croat nationalists sought to carve out Bosnian land to be annexed to the future Greater Serbia and Greater Croatia. Few people could have predicted that the war would last for almost four years, and with such barbarism. More than 200,000 Bosnians out of a population of 4.4 million were killed. Some 200,000 were injured, 50,000 of them children. Millions of people were deported or forced to flee their homes. Sixty percent of all houses in Bosnia, half of the schools, and a third of the hospitals were damaged or destroyed. Power plants, roads, water systems, bridges, and railways were ruined. Throughout these horrors, the international community failed to respond.

Key Players in the Conflict

Serbia: President Slobodan Milosevic's nationalist aims for a Greater Serbia started the machinery of war in 1986. Now based in Belgrade, he still controls the fourth largest army in Europe, the Yugoslav National Army (JNA). He has thus far evaded charges of war crimes and continues to exert considerable influence in the region. He was the Serb representative at Dayton and has since distanced himself from the Bosnian Serb leadership.

Bosnian Serbs: In 1991, prior to the war, Radovan Karadzic (a former psychiatrist) created a renegade army within Bosnia with the support of Milosevic in Belgrade. In 1992, under his leadership, Bosnian Serb nationalists began a systematic policy of "cleansing" large areas of Bosnia of non-Serbs. Both Karadzic and his military commander, Ratko Mladic, have been indicted for war crimes, including genocide, by a UN war crimes tribunal. Both remain at large and continue to wield power in Republika Srpska.

Croatia: President Franjo Tudjman, headquartered in Zagreb, leads the Croatian army and has close ties to the Bosnian Croat army, the HVO. The HVO lost significant territory to the Serb-controlled Yugoslav National Army, but supported Bosnian Croats as they captured swaths of territory in Herzegovina, the southwestern region of Bosnia around the city of Mostar where many Bosnian Croats reside. Tudjman continues to exert influence in the area controlled by the HVO, most of which remains "cleansed" of all Muslim and Serb inhabitants. Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Muslims formally allied in 1994 in an uneasy federation that was brokered by the United States.

Bosnia: President Alija Izetbegovic, head of the Muslim-dominated Party of Democratic Action (SDA), is based in Sarajevo. Bosnia was attacked by the Yugoslav National Army, Bosnian Serb nationalists, and Bosnian Croat nationalists.. The siege of Sarajevo lasted 43 months. An international arms embargo was in effect throughout the war, preventing the Bosnian government from obtaining the heavy artillery and arms that it needed to fight the more sophisticated arsenals of the Serbian and Croatian armies.

Izetbegovic is now chairman of the three-member Bosnian presidency, sharing power with Bosnian Croat Kresimir Zubak and Momcilo Krajisnik, a Bosnian Serb. Both Zubak and Krajisnik are opposed to a unified Bosnia with Sarajevo as the capital.

The Role of the UN
The failure of the UN to stop the killing in Bosnia seriously compromised its credibility as it neared its 50th anniversary in 1995. The UN already had UNPROFOR (United Nations Protection Force) troops in Sarajevo at the outset of war because it was their base of operation for the UN mission in Croatia. The UN hoped that their presence would discourage the spread of the conflict from Croatia to Bosnia. But when Sarajevo came under attack by Serb artillery in April 1992, the UN forces pulled out to avoid casualties, leaving behind only a small and lightly armed contingent of "peacekeepers" to discourage attacks by Serbian nationalists. There was clearly no peace to keep. As the situation deteriorated, creating a humanitarian nightmare, the UN struck a deal with the Serbs to control the Sarajevo airport. In reality, the Serbs only allowed the UN to use the airport under de facto Serb control. During the next three years the airport was the scene of hundreds of casualties. UN humanitarian flights were repeatedly fired upon and Bosnian civilians were killed by sniper fire as they attempted to escape across the tarmac. All aid flights and personnel transports had to be approved by Serb liaison officers stationed at the airport. In one of the most flagrant failures of the UN to provide protection, the Bosnian Deputy Prime Minister was shot point-blank by Serb nationalists in 1992 while riding in a UN armored personnel carrier at the airport.

UN personnel were well aware of massive violations of human rights and humanitarian law committed by the Bosnian Serb nationalists, yet did nothing. The world learned of the atrocities through the courageous efforts of print and TV journalists who visited Serb-run camps and reported on appalling conditions and treatment of Croat and Muslim detainees. Wrenching scenes were broadcast around the world showing hundreds of emaciated men and women behind barbed wire, their eyes hollow from hunger and despair. Although they never succeeded in protecting civilians from attack, the UN eventually took seriously its obligation to investigate war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity in the former Yugoslavia and established the International Criminal Tribunal.

The International Criminal Tribunal
The International Criminal Tribunal, the first international war crimes court since the Nuremberg trials following World War II, was established by the UN Security Council in February 1993. Based in The Hague, it has announced indictments against 75 individuals --including Radovan Karadzic and General Ratko Mladic. There has been an enormous lack of will by the international community to seek out and arrest them. The 75 indictments name 54 Serbs, 18 Croats, and 3 Bosnian Muslims. In order for peace and reconstruction to continue in the region, it is crucial that the tribunal demonstrate that genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity cannot be committed with impunity. Establishing individual responsibility for crimes is essential to avoid the attribution of collective guilt.

............

[Sanchezz]

"here is the map of their plan .... so called " great serbia " "Something like that nevar existed.But NDH (Nazi Croatia) realy existed! here:

After WWI Allies(England,France...) offered to Serbia, to make that Country that you are showing.It was called "Londonian project of Serbia".Croats and Bosniaks was fighting with Germans so,Allies doesn't want to cooperate with Croatians and Bosniaks. They wanted to help Serbs.But
Serbia refused that plan and accept to make Yugoslavia.Idea of "Yugoslavia" came from Slovenia,Croatia and Bosnia. So Serbia,decided to join with Croatians,Slovenians and Bosniaks, and that's how Yugoslavia was created.(Serbs made big mistake). And that's how Croatians and Bosniaks "washed" their hands in WWI, and become Allies. So Serbia could make that "Great Serbia" but Serbs didn't do that.They accepted Yugoslavia as their country.So much of the serb nationalism.


"Personaly for me as a bosnian there is no way im ever going to make peace with THEM.They massacred 8000 civilians in srebrenica in 4 days "

In Srebrenica was missing(killed) over 1500 Serbs by Bosniaks, and in town of Baratunac(10km notrh of Srebrenica) over 3000 Serbs killed, Although region of Srebrenica should be NO military zone,under controll of UN, muslims have military units in Srebrenica all time.They attacked serbian willages and killed those people,and later go back under UN protection.What hapened in Srebrenica later, was consequence.

"Personaly i am bigger supporter of YUGOSLAVIA ... as a socialist country of ALL people living in it ... for gods sake we had the 4th largest army in europe .... And yust when yugoslavia was turning to democracy and boosting its economy even more ... serbs want to implement their supperiority over other peoples living in the yugoslavia... "

********!During 1980's economy of Yugoslavia was wery bad!Almost worst in history! And that is real reson for Yugoslavia crisis.Yugoslavia start to fall apart with constitution of 1974.Slovenia wants to separate in 1987!I written about it,go on previos pages and read it.
And Serbia was devided on 3 parts!This way almost 50% Serbs lived outside Serbia.Great politics.
Why Croatia didn't give autonomy to Serbs?Serbs was 30% of Croatia population.
With that constitution from 1974. Yugoslavia was everything but strong country.

So, there was great civil casulties on all 3 sides in Bosnia.Now if Bosniaks hate so much Serbs, why they want to live with Serbs in the same country? Serbs form fedaral unit "Republika Srpska" in Bosnia.Why Bosniaks won't let Serbs to separate?Serbs are 31% of Bosnias people.Why Bosniaks need over 1 200 000 Serbs in their country?

As most serbs do ... you deny history and facts and try to alter it to your benefit....
Serbs tried to make so called "great serbia" in the last war..... but they got gang-banged by Croats and Bosnians :D :D

here is a link of that happend in srebrenica... and you claim 1500 bosnians were executed and 3000 serbs... no my friend 8000 unarmed bosnians were executed and 500 serb soldiers were killed before srebrenica was proclaimed UN Safezone.. here is a link to confirm my claims..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

The Srebrenica massacre, also known as Srebrenica genocide, was the July 1995 killing of at least 8,000 [1] Bosniak males, ranging in age from teenagers to the elderly, in the region of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina by the Army of Republika Srpska under the command of general Ratko Mladić. In addition to the Army of Republika Srpska, special state security forces of Serbia known as the "Scorpions" participated in the massacre. [2] The United Nations had previously declared Srebrenica a UN protected "safe area" and 400 armed Dutch peacekeepers were present at the time, but they did not prevent the massacre. [3] The massacre included several instances where preteen children and women were also killed.[4] While the exact number killed will never be known, the list of people missing or killed in Srebrenica compiled by the Federal Commission of Missing Persons so far includes 8,373 names.[5]

The Srebrenica massacre is the largest mass murder in Europe since WWII and it is the first legally established case of genocide in Europe. [6] In the unanimous landmark ruling "Prosecutor v. Krstic", the Appeals Chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) ruled that the Srebrenica massacre was an act of genocide stating in its judgement:

"By seeking to eliminate a part of the Bosnian Muslims [Bosniaks], the Bosnian Serb forces committed genocide. They targeted for extinction the forty thousand Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica, a group which was emblematic of the Bosnian Muslims in general. They stripped all the male Muslim prisoners, military and civilian, elderly and young, of their personal belongings and identification, and deliberately and methodically killed them solely on the basis of their identity." [7]

And we will not allow any partitioning of bosnian teritory because Bosnia is not a federal country... like yugoslavia was... and if serbs have problems living with us they can always pack their bags and go to serbia.... -- DO I NEED TO REPAT MYSELF I ALREADY STATED THIS IN PREVIOUS POSTS...... SERBS THAT LIVE IN BOSNIA HAWE ENTITY NOT FEDERAL REPUBLIC... THAT REPUBLIC THAT IS IN ITS NAME IS PURE PROPAGANDA ... ITS NAME IS NOT REPUBLIC OF "SRPSKA" BUT "REPUBLIC OF SRPSKA" WITH REPUBLIC INSIDE " " ... GET THE POINT ????

[Imperator]

Μe i am newutral but also a neighboor so i think i can say some word about that.
May be i am greek and bosnians here will think i ll try to support serbs. But i m going to have a neutral and objective point of view.
I think that the most difficult thing is to get over past issues and see the future. Its cruel some times and ppl from each side will seek for revange. Arguements are right for both sides. In such cases all say they are victims, they are right, they dont admitt their mistakes. Like israel and palestine.
What matters is that nobody also is benefited by that hate situation. War, hat and blood only outer superpowers favour which they act accodring the law :" divide and rule"
Just both take some brave decision. its going to be much more brave than killing many serbs or bosnians. Just delete all past things.
If we dont understand that such hates only hurt not only u yugoslavs but also balkans overall then we r going always be victims by every other that wants to interfere. The greeks we have had big hatred with Turks. Now we r ok, we see the future , we build connections and have really good and trustfull relations each other. We just know ppl have nothing to divide themselves and past cannot drive us always. Also bulgarians. Bulgaria and Greece once have had done worse things at wars than serns and bosnians ( and croatians) now. Nowdays we r the best friends.
Us balkans nations we have common culture, many things in common and common blood i can say as all were mixed up. Me its possible to have some slavic or turkish blood as u may have also some greek or turk blood others vlah, albanian etc. Why to waste ourselves in such hostilities? Are we going to win anything in the end? Nothing just blood and damage. Just making massive graveyards.
I well understand tho that was conflict was recent. Some have fought themselves, some others relatives may had been killed or friends. Yes this is a hard pathway but its going to be the best the steps to be towards that> to the piece and trust restoration

[DeepEyes]

"World War II to 1991
During World War II, armed groups claiming allegiance to various ethnic factions fought both against each other and against the Nazi occupiers. By 1945, almost 1 million Yugoslavs had lost their lives, most of them at the hands of other Yugoslavs. Croatian fascists (Ustashe) were the most notorious for killing Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Communists, and political opponents, but Serb Chetniks were also responsible for many mass killings. The Communist-led Partisans fought against both groups and were victorious (with Allied support) at the war's end. The Partisan leader, Josip Broz (Tito), ruled the country as a one-party socialist state."

You forgot to mention muslim military formations,and that they cooperate with Nazists!

"..i am bosniac as Sarajevo071 we "didnt" cooperate with the nazis except hanjar division wich was created to try to cooperate with germans..."


The rest what you written... is distortion of truth, to make Serbs look like onlu one who is guilty for war in YU.You are just like CNN and BBC.


One of the first wictims in Yugoslav crisis are JNA (YU Army) solders, on Austrian-Slovenian line,this soldiers was killed in Holmec in 1991 (and they were Serbs,Croats,Macedonians,Muslims...) by Slovenian paramilitary units.Things like this happened in Croatia,Bosnia! JNA had to protecet her solders.In that time SFRJ (YU) still exist!

Before 1990, provinces in Serbia had more political power then Serbia!This was a PARADOX!It's example of anti-Serb politics in Yugoslavia.That provinces had everything what independent country had except military,and also they could put a veto in Belgrade(Serbia's) parlament decisions.Belgrade couldn't do that in parlaments of that provinces.After 1990, with change of Serbians constitution, on Kosovo, official language was still Albanian and Serbian.Minorities in that provinces could make political partys,vote on elections,go to university,print papers...just like Serbs, so they had "that" authonomy.

"After Tito's death in 1980, the nation slid into economic and political decline as a collective leadership began to squabble over power and the allocation of shrinking resources among the republics. With the final collapse of Communism in the 1980s, the restive population began seeking solutions to provide economic and political stability in a post- Cold War world. Unfortunately, the solution promoted by Serb and Croat and Muslim extremists in this time of crisis was ethnic nationalism..."

Also the creator of 1974. constitution said that Yugoslavia is just corridor for Croatia and Slovenia to Europe.It was just matter of time when those republics gonna separate.
This was real reason of Yugoslav colapse! So Serbs didn't start it! 3 sides I said.

3,262 Serb civilians were killed in the Bratunac and Srebrenica area of eastern Bosnia during the the civil war - by Muslim forces commanded by Naser Oric, who was recently sentenced by the Hague tribunal to just two years in jail.Yes just TWO YEARS for killing three thousand Serbs.

In that 8 000 casulties, there was 1500 Serbs from Srebrenica.Who killed them?

I know that there was civil(Muslim) casulties in Srebrenica, but what about Serb civil casulties.

"And we will not allow any partitioning of bosnian teritory because Bosnia is not a federal country... like yugoslavia was... and if serbs have problems living with us they can always pack their bags and go to serbia.... -- DO I NEED TO REPAT MYSELF I ALREADY STATED THIS IN PREVIOUS POSTS...... SERBS THAT LIVE IN BOSNIA HAWE ENTITY NOT FEDERAL REPUBLIC... THAT REPUBLIC THAT IS IN ITS NAME IS PURE PROPAGANDA ... ITS NAME IS NOT REPUBLIC OF "SRPSKA" BUT "REPUBLIC OF SRPSKA" WITH REPUBLIC INSIDE " " ... GET THE POINT ????"

That "Entity" had Mulitary,Police,Government,Parlament... almost independent country,all that was guranted by Dayton Agremment.Name of ENTITY is propaganda,What is ENTITY? "Republika SRPSKA" had all qulities of federal republic, even more(In Federal Yugoslavia, federal units dont have military!). And NOW MUslims and Croats want to wanish it, and reunited Bosnia and that is violation of Dayton Agremment.And of course Serbs in that country will allways be overvoted in parlament by Croats and Muslims(You are together now?) like they was since 1945-1990.

Serbs agree to live with Croats and Muslims but only in Country that Dayton Agrement promote.Now police and military is united... but that doesn't enough!You want more!

"and if serbs have problems living with us they can always pack their bags and go to serbia...."

You don't like Serbs and you don't want to live with them.You said.But you woun't let them go.You Don't like Serbs but you like their houses,land...

Why do you want 1 200 000 Serbs in your country?It's 31% of population.

[DeepEyes]

I agree with you Imperator!But Sanchezz won't accept that Muslims and Croatians are guilty as same as Serbs for war and casulties in Yugoslavia.

Yugoslav crisis is much more complicated then you think Sanchezz!

[Sanchezz]

Bosnian losses Serbian losses Croatian loses
32,723 civilians killed, 3,555 civilians killed 1,899 civilians killed
31,270 soldiers killed 24,206 soldiers killed 5,439 soldiers killed.

Bosnians and croats guilty same as serbs ????
And deepeyes.... serbs in bosnia dont have military .. they had it but it is inegrated in Bosnian Armed Forces .. since 2 years ago... since RS is an entity .. and in deyton agreement it clearyl says "No entity can call for a referendum" your statments are lies.......

[spirit]

This forum in not for history of Balkan people!!!
I have one or two things to say for all of you.
First before WWII in Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Muslims in Bosnia had status of Serb Muslims. After fall of Kingdom of Yugoslavia (after WWII), there was new country Yugoslavia (communist country), controlled by Tito. Tito give Serb Muslims new status-they were only called Muslims. There was only one reason for this, so that they would not be called SERBS. After 1980s Muslims in Bosnia (and some other parts of Serbia) were given new names and statuses.
And before Turks came to Balkans it was 99% Christians living there!!!

Second there are little people on this forum that know who Chetniks are and why where they formed!!
On basis of RP41 (plan for defense of Kingdom of Yugoslavia for 1941 year), in case of fall of KY and capitulation of its army there were to be formed special paramilitary units.
These units were to resist German army (Olney possible threat). And then Germans attacked, Yugoslavia quickly fall, thanks to Croats who betrayed it. 2. 000.000 Serbs paid whit there lives because of this. Then on Ravna Gora general Draza Mihajlovic gadur what was left of Army of KY and started fighting German. General Draza Mihajlovic was first gerila general in Europe!!!
Chetniks were helping shut down Allied pilots to escape Germans from beginning to the end of war. For this Draza Mihajlovic received medal form US president 60 years later (it happened recently, despite he was shot by Tito after the war).
In same time Tito organized his resistance movement Partisans (communists).
In beginning Chetniks and Partisans fight against Germans together, then communists became too powerful and Chetniks (anti communists) sinned pace whit Germans, because they wanted to fight Tito and Partisans. After allies landed in Normandy, Serbian King ordered Draza Mihajlovic to help partisans fight Germans, but it was too late.
In 1945 Germany capitulated and Chetniks where left to fight Partisans and Tito alone.
Almost all Chetniks were killed after the war including General Draza Mihajlovic.
Tito tricked allied, he primmest to form democratic Yugoslavia, so they would help him.
Serbian Kink could not return to Yugoslavia thanks to Tito, who would not let him come to Yugoslavia!
He even turned his back to Stalin, who helped him so much.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/3026-200x200.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/draza_mihajlovic.jpg
General Draza

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/album_pic.jpg
Chetnik flag

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/cetnici2.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/853-ravna20gora.jpg
Ravna Gora

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/feral120505.jpg
Funny picture of Bush and Draza

[Sarajevo071]

Really!?

Then... STOP THIS SERBIAN NATIONALISTIC CRAP AND LIES, AND MOVE ON!!

My grandfather was underground in Sarajevo, fighting Germans and NDH... Tito breaks off with Stalin since he was smart enough to know what is coming from DICTATOR and SICK MAN like him!! In Bosniae (STATE BEFORE KINGDOM OF YUGOSLAVIA AND BEFORE TURKS CAME AND INTRODUCE ISLAM) lived Christians but also BOGUMILS (Pope and crusaders wage a war on them - so much for being Christians)!! And you know that, serb.

And most important for you serbs who live in past LOOSED wars and history, I DON'T GIVE A FLYING F****, WHAT SOMEONE WAS HUNDREDS YEARS AGO!! Who cares!? Why should I!? It's important who I am today!! And what Bosna and Bosnians are today. Go back to your caves and play with bones from Kosovo field if past is so important to you... I DON'T CARE FOR WWII SINCE WAR IN BOSNIA IS ONE THAT I KNOW, THAT I SAW AND THAT I SURVIVED.

Very sad to see that serbs staining even this place with they lies and propaganda, and bringing MP.net attitude...


Here... Go and fetch!

http://loper.org/~george/trends/2002/Mar/Chele_kula_skulls.jpg

[Sarajevo071]

And, since you like pictures so much, here are some more...


http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/5094/14oz.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/3421/47xc.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/614/53ot.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/6433/62rx.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/686/79wi.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/2844/81eo.jpg

[Sarajevo071]

The Yugoslav Partisans were the main resistance movement engaged in the fight against the Axis forces in the Balkans during World War II.

They went under the official name of People's Liberation Army and Partisan Detachments of Yugoslavia (Narodno-oslobodilačka vojska i partizanski odredi Jugoslavije), and were under the direct command of Marshall Tito and the Yugoslav Communist Party Politburo.

The occupying forces instituted such severe burdens on the local populace (e.g. the army of Nazi Germany would hang or shoot indiscriminately, including: children, womenfolk, and the old, up to 100 local inhabitants for every one Wehrmacht soldier killed) that the Partisans came not only to enjoy widespread support but for many they were the only option for survival.

The PLA & PDY (NOV i POJ) was established in 1942 from Yugoslav partisan bands, and eventually evolved into a regular force, the Yugoslav People's Army, on March 1, 1945.

The Partisans and the People's Liberation Army staged a guerrilla campaign widely supported by the sufering population. There were people's committees organized to act as civilian governments in liberated areas of the country, and even limited arms industries were set-up.

During this stage great pressure was made by the occupying and quisling forces as seven major anti-partisan Offensives atest. The biggest being by combined Wehrmacht, the SS, Fascist Italy, Ustaše, Chetniks and Bulgarian forces, the so called Fall Weiss (Plan White) and Operation Schwarz (Operation Black), or as they were known in the Yugoslav annals: the 4th (Battle of Neretva) and 5th (Battle of Sutjeska) Offensives.



Later in the conflict the Partisans were able to win the moral, as well as limited material support of the Allies, who until then had supported General Dragoljub "Drazha" Mihailovich's Royalist Chetnik Forces, but were finally convinced of who was doing the fighting against the Axis in the region by many military missions dispatched to both sides during the course of the war.

After the Teheran Conference in 1943 they received official recongnition as the legitimate national liberation force by the Allies, who sunsequently set-up the RAF Balkan Air Force under the influence and suggestion of Brigadier-General Fitzroy MacLean, and with the aim to provide increased supplies and tactical air support for Tito's forces.

Towards the end of war, in 1945, the Red Army facilitated the liberation of the Capital, Belgrade. However, the country is considered to be the only one in WWII which was liberated by it's own forces, with the assistance and active participation of the populus.

[Sarajevo071]

Mihailovitch was thus "determined to avoid repetition of any such reprisals for a premature rising of the forces under his command. Thus Chetnik operations were generally restricted to small-scale actions and sabotage." The public rationale for restraint—that major action should await an Allied landing— is familiar from the experience of British- and American-led resistance forces in the Philippines, Greece, Italy, and elsewhere. While a similar Allied policy may have been pursued with the Chetniks, their situation of overt collaboration with the occupation forces ultimately led to a break with the Allies, and near disintegration as an organized

[Sarajevo071]

I was shot down on the 18th November 1944 on my 21st mission.

We kinda knew, when you do that kind of work, the chances are fairly high that you’re going to get shot down. You hope you get out of the airplane, survive and aren’t injured. But if you do, your chances then of being captured are quite high. This depends on where you go down. If you went down in Germany you were going to get captured. Your chances of evading capture were poor. If you went down in Yugoslavia, territory that the Germans occupied but didn’t control, there were partisan troops; Chetniks and other groups of people who were guerrilla fighters in the mountains fighting against the Germans. If the partisans caught you, they might help you and deliver you back to your American people. This would take several months. The Chetniks might help you, or they might turn you over to the Germans. Then there were the Ustashi who were sort of on the German side. If they caught you, they would most probably kill you. So it was a gamble as to where you got shot down, whether you got out of the airplane or not and who captured you. You knew that if you continued to fly those missions, eventually you would get shot down.

Lee Lamar
US Army Air Force
15th Air Force, 460th Bomb group 760th Bomb Squadron

[Sarajevo071]

Yugoslav Jews were targeted by the NAZIs as well as the Ustashi and Serbian Chetniks who often cooperated with the Germans.

http://www.histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/cou/yug/ww2-yug.html

[Sarajevo071]

The Serbs, like other nations occupied by the Axis, were divided between resolute anti-fascist resisters, committed ideological quislings, and opportunists ready to collaborate with both Axis and Allies in pursuit of their own interests (this, of course, applied to the political classes: the mass of ordinary people sought above all to survive). Among the Serbs, the resisters were the Partisans under the leadership of Josip Broz Tito and the Communist Party of Yugoslavia; the quislings were the followers of the puppet prime-minister General Milan Nedic and of the fascist leader Dimitrije Ljotic; and the opportunists were Mihailovic and the Chetniks. In practice, there was very little difference in behaviour between Nedic’s and Ljotic’s outright quislings and Mihailovic’s Chetniks, who collaborated with the Nazis while seeking to crush the real resisters - the Partisans - and exterminate Muslims, Croats, Jews and others, into the bargain.

Mihailovic was a Yugoslav Army officer and member of Borivoje Mirkovic’s conspiratorial circle of 26th - 27th March, who had taken to the hills following the Yugoslav capitulation, intending to continue the resistance. Yet his version of ‘resistance’ meant essentially waiting for the Allies to win the war on Yugoslavia’s behalf, then to fall upon the Germans after they had already been defeated. It was the Partisans who launched a genuine guerrilla resistance while the Chetniks were waiting in the wings. Faced, by the summer of 1941, with a rival and genuine resistance movement in the shape of the Partisans, Mihailovic turned the Chetniks’ guns against his fellow Serbs, starting a civil war that would result in tens if not hundreds of thousands of dead. At the same time - already in the autumn of 1941 - Mihailovic began making overtures to the Germans, seeking to reach an accommodation with them for joint action against the Partisans. This would have placed the Chetniks in the position of German anti-Communist auxiliaries, helping to suppress the genuine Yugoslav resistance while waiting for the Great Powers to determine the outcome of the war amongst themselves. That Mihailovic failed to reach an agreement with the Germans at this time was not for want of trying on his part, but merely due to German unwillingness to deal with someone they considered a ‘rebel’.

While the Partisans fought the occupiers, the Chetniks collaborated. Mihailovic’s officers in the NDH served as the auxiliaries of the Italians who, unlike the Germans, had no qualms about collaborating with rebels. Furthermore, various Bosnian Chetnik commanders signed treaties of cooperation with the very Ustasha state that had exterminated hundreds of thousands of their fellow Serbs. Mihailovic himself was careful not to put his signature on incriminating documents of this kind, but he never repudiated his own officers who did so. Meanwhile, under the military umbrella provided by their Italian allies, the Chetniks engaged in a genocidal campaign of their own against Muslims and Croats, in order to lay the foundations for a ‘Great Serbia’.

Petar Bacovic, Mihailovic’s commander for eastern Bosnia-Hercegovina, reported in September 1942, that ‘our Chetniks - greatly embittered by the misdeeds committed by the Ustashas against the Serbs - skinned alive three Catholic priests between Ljubinje and Vrgorac. Our Chetniks have killed all men aged fifteen years or above. They did not kill women or children aged under fifteen years. Seventeen villages were entirely burned... We shall soon, God willing, attack Fazlagic Kula, the last Muslim stronghold in Hercegovina. After that in Hercegovina there will not remain a single Muslim in the villages.’ Pavle Djurisic, commander of the Lim-Sanjak Chetnik Detachment, reported to Mihailovic on 13th February 1943 the results of the Chetnik actions in the Pljevlja, Foca and Cajnice districts: ‘All Muslim villages in the three mentioned districts were totally burned so that not a single home remained in one piece. All property was destroyed except cattle, corn and senna.’ Furthermore: ‘During the operation the total destruction of the Muslim inhabitants was carried out regardless of sex and age’. In this operation, ‘our total losses were 22 dead, of which 2 through accidents, and 32 wounded. Among the Muslims, around 1,200 fighters and up to 8,000 other victims: women, old people and children.’

Mihailovic’s Chetnik movement was viciously anti-Semitic. Bacovic claimed in October 1942 that ‘the Jews, associated with much of the scum of the earth, fled to our country and began to propagate such a better and happier state of affairs in a Communist state.’ Dobroslav Jevdjevic, Mihailovic’s political representative in eastern Bosnia and Hercegovina, claimed in June 1942 that Partisan units were largely made up of ‘Jews, Gypsies and Muslims’. The following month, he accused the Partisans: ‘They have destroyed Serb churches and established mosques, synagogues and Catholic temples.’ A pamphlet distributed by the Chetniks around Sarajevo in the autumn of 1942 spoke of ‘the Communists, whose leaders are Jews and who wish to impose Jewish rule on the world’. A Chetnik proclamation of September 1942 claimed that ‘an Ustasha, German, Jew or Gypsy may become a Partisan; in other words anyone willing on behalf of the foreigner to participate in the slaughter and killing of the best Serb sons.’ A group of senior Chetnik commanders issued a proclamation in February 1943 to the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia, claiming that ‘since we have cleansed Serbia, Montenegro and Hercegovina, we have come to help you to crush the pitiful remnants of the Communist international, criminal band of Tito, Mose Pijade, Levi Vajnert and other paid Jews’. They called upon the Partisan rank-and-file to ‘kill the political commissars and join our ranks right away’, like the ‘hundreds and hundreds who are surrendering every day, conscious that they have been betrayed and swindled by the Communist Jews’. The 9th March 1943 issue of the Chetnik newspaper Vidovdan described the Partisans as ‘bandits led by the Zagreb Jew ‘Tito’ and the Belgrade Jew Mose Pijade’.


and more, and more and MORE....

http://zope06.v.servelocity.net/hjs/sections/greater_europe/document.2005-06-12.7328995393

[Sarajevo071]

So, stop your serbian noncence, lies and bulls***t and start learning about REAL word and REAL religion more… You are on right place!

[DeepEyes]

Bosnian losses Serbian losses Croatian loses
32,723 civilians killed, 3,555 civilians killed 1,899 civilians killed
31,270 soldiers killed 24,206 soldiers killed 5,439 soldiers killed.

Bosnians and croats guilty same as serbs ????
And deepeyes.... serbs in bosnia dont have military .. they had it but it is inegrated in Bosnian Armed Forces .. since 2 years ago... since RS is an entity .. and in deyton agreement it clearyl says "No entity can call for a referendum" your statments are lies.......


What did I lied?

With your logic, Croatians supposed to be the most guilty only (6 000 loses)!
And when Serb die, he was a solder,but when Muslim die he was a civilian.

I know that Mulims had great casualties.I feel sorry for them,and I never deny that, but Serbs had casulties too. Percentage of Serbs in Bosnia decriese from 43% in 1991 to 31% in 1995.many of them (escaped to Serbia)many died. Is it not a crime when you kill or Serb?

In that 8 000 casulties in Srebrenica, there was 1500 Serbs.Who killed them? Sanchezz,don't just throw with numbers.Meny of them are still not correct.

Term "Entity" was used to hide real situation,and to minimase chance for Serb to separate.When "piece" of land have their Military,Police,Government,Flag,Borders... those are attributes of independent country.Of coarse Dayton Peace forbid Serbs to separate.Serbs agreed to that.But it also guarantes right that "Republic of Srpska" have mulitary,police, to exist. And you said that military and police is united now.And also Croatians and Mulsims want to Cancel "Republic of Srpska".And that is violating of Dayton Agreement.In united Bosnia Serbs will always be overvoted by Croats and Muslims like they was in 1945-1990. So Bosniaks and Croatian can violate Dayton, but Serbs no.

And this is a personal question.Why do YOU want 31% population to be Serbs in your country?You hate them!

[DeepEyes]

Sarajevo071, that Skull tower.Those are heads of Serbs who die for freedom against Ottomans.Ottomans built that,to scare Serbs.I don't understood, You would be ashamed of that?

Is there any greather monument of fighting for freedom, then this? Serbs will always remeber those people. Sarajevo071,you are stupid man! Go to town of Nis, that tower is called "Cele Kula" and read what geatests French writters write about it.

Sloboda nema cenu!

[DeepEyes]

The Bosniaks (Bosnian: Bosnjaci) are a South Slavic people living mainly in Bosnia and Herzegovina.Descendants of indigenous converts to Islam during Bosnia's Ottoman period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks


Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (NAZI MUSLIMS)
The 13th Handschar was the largest of these divisions, with 21,065 men. Its German name meant that it was the 13th division, a mountain formation (Gebirgs) of the SS (composed of non-German recruits). Named Handschar after the curved Turkish sword known as the Scimitar (Arabic: Khanjar): an historical symbol of Bosnia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croat ian)



Chetniks,some of the remaining Yugoslav soldiers organized the Yugoslav Royal Army in the Fatherland in the Ravna Gora district of western Serbia under Colonel Dragoljub Mihailovic to fight the German occupation. They were almost entirely ethnic Serbs.Dragoljub Mihailovic posthumous awarded with Legion of Merit, by U.S. President Harry S. Truman, 1948...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustashe

Go and learn!

Camp of Jasenovac and the genocides perpetrated against Serbs, Jews and Romas in Yugoslavia during World War II

http://www.jasenovac.org/index.php

[Sarajevo071]

And you are an moron if you think I would be silent on your insult, distortion of truth and all that pictures and statements you put against Bosnian fight for freedom!!

And, plese, stop selling crazy serbian crap like a truth (every moron can write crap on Wikipedia), and read some REAL history books... :laugh4:

[Sanchezz]

What did I lied?

With your logic, Croatians supposed to be the most guilty only (6 000 loses)!
And when Serb die, he was a solder,but when Muslim die he was a civilian.

I know that Mulims had great casualties.I feel sorry for them,and I never deny that, but Serbs had casulties too. Percentage of Serbs in Bosnia decriese from 43% in 1991 to 31% in 1995.many of them (escaped to Serbia)many died. Is it not a crime when you kill or Serb?

In that 8 000 casulties in Srebrenica, there was 1500 Serbs.Who killed them? Sanchezz,don't just throw with numbers.Meny of them are still not correct.

Term "Entity" was used to hide real situation,and to minimase chance for Serb to separate.When "piece" of land have their Military,Police,Government,Flag,Borders... those are attributes of independent country.Of coarse Dayton Peace forbid Serbs to separate.Serbs agreed to that.But it also guarantes right that "Republic of Srpska" have mulitary,police, to exist. And you said that military and police is united now.And also Croatians and Mulsims want to Cancel "Republic of Srpska".And that is violating of Dayton Agreement.In united Bosnia Serbs will always be overvoted by Croats and Muslims like they was in 1945-1990. So Bosniaks and Croatian can violate Dayton, but Serbs no.

And this is a personal question.Why do YOU want 31% population to be Serbs in your country?You hate them!

In 1992 percentege of serbs in bosnia was 32%
and in 1995 28%.

1500 serbs who died in area sorounding srebrenica were soldiers who fought the bosnian army before srebrenica was declared UN Safezone

Serbs in bosnia dont have army... the police will be united this or next year... there are no borders between entitys except imagionary.. and parliamant can have any region... same as in switzerland... each Canton has its own parliament

We hate serbs because they killed 65000 bosnian civilians bosnian army killed 3600 serb civilians (mostly because of innacurate artilery fire)....serbs raped 15 000 womman and destroyed more than 1000 mosques.While military losses were 32 000 bosnian army and 24 500 serbian army.Considering the huge amount of supplies and armmament that serbs had and ond the other side lack of weapons and ammunition on bosnian side... this is a huge succes.Also dayton agreement stopped offensive of the bosnian army that included 45000 soldiers that were heading to Banja Luka.. when they were 20Km away dayton agreement signed

And because you are promoting Serb Chetnik murderers and rapers who commited numerous attrocities... i will post some of the pictures of the army that stopped them from killing us all

[Sanchezz]

Here is a picture of my good friend Cy Mackintosh from Scotland... he was in bosnian brigade called "Staro bosanski Kraljevi" - " Old bosnian kings" fighting the rapist and genocidal serb aggresor... He served in UK military and he was trained there.. when he saw what was happening in bosnia and croatia he came to croatia and fought there in ranks of famous croatian military brigade "Zenge" .. after 1 year in croatia he came to Bosnia to join bosnian army... He always wore British Uniform and he was an excelent soldier... this pic was taked right after he came from the frontline :) :D

[spirit]

Really!?

Then... STOP THIS SERBIAN NATIONALISTIC CRAP AND LIES, AND MOVE ON!!

My grandfather was underground in Sarajevo, fighting Germans and NDH... Tito breaks off with Stalin since he was smart enough to know what is coming from DICTATOR and SICK MAN like him!! In Bosniae (STATE BEFORE KINGDOM OF YUGOSLAVIA AND BEFORE TURKS CAME AND INTRODUCE ISLAM) lived Christians but also BOGUMILS (Pope and crusaders wage a war on them - so much for being Christians)!! And you know that, serb.

And most important for you serbs who live in past LOOSED wars and history, I DON'T GIVE A FLYING F****, WHAT SOMEONE WAS HUNDREDS YEARS AGO!! Who cares!? Why should I!? It's important who I am today!! And what Bosna and Bosnians are today. Go back to your caves and play with bones from Kosovo field if past is so important to you... I DON'T CARE FOR WWII SINCE WAR IN BOSNIA IS ONE THAT I KNOW, THAT I SAW AND THAT I SURVIVED.

Very sad to see that serbs staining even this place with they lies and propaganda, and bringing MP.net attitude...


Here... Go and fetch!

http://loper.org/~george/trends/2002/Mar/Chele_kula_skulls.jpg

I’m going to ask you one question WHO ARE BOGUMILS?
If you don’t know, I am going to explained it to you!
Serbs can look 1000 years back in history and still see and know who there ancestors where. We are old people and we have history, some thing you will never have.
You will never understand some things.

[spirit]

And, since you like pictures so much, here are some more...


http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/5094/14oz.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/3421/47xc.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/614/53ot.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/6433/62rx.jpg

http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/686/79wi.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/2844/81eo.jpg


Nice pictures, only thing missing is that lot of those mane came from Chechnya, Middle East and other Muslim countries.

[spirit]

Sarayevo071 do you have some site from which you are copying this texts?
Smart, then again really primitive!

[spirit]

Sarayevo071 you are talking something about Serbs being NATINALISTS look at you, you didn’t say one nice thing about Serbs. You even insulted Christians, but no one insulted Muslims…

[Sanchezz]

Look at your signature... Chetnik ..rapist,slaughterers,dirty,comming from mountains and villages..... and you are talkin here and saying how serbs were "defending" themselves ??

[spirit]

This man is war criminal. He killed Serbs mostly around Srebrenica chopping there heeds of, burning live people (man, women and children)!!!!

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/22364483.jpg

[Sanchezz]

He has been sentenced to 2 years (wich were calculated in his time while he was on trial) so he was released imidiatly... so another serbian legend sinks --- sentence bacause he was not able to stop looting of abondoned serbian houses....

[spirit]

Look at your signature... Chetnik ..rapist,slaughterers,dirty,comming from mountains and villages..... and you are talkin here and saying how serbs were "defending" themselves ??
You are right I am Chetnik, best thing on the world!!!
Znas onu pesmu
Nevoli te Alija
Zato sto si balija…
…
Odnela ti Drina
sto Mudzahedina

[spirit]

He has been sentenced to 2 years (wich were calculated in his time while he was on trial) so he was released imidiatly... so another serbian legend sinks --- sentence bacause he was not able to stop looting of abondoned serbian houses....


He is war criminal, and they are going to give him new sentence this time for much much longer!!
You are not riding newspapers and lessening to news.

[bf-fly]

Wow, I just stumbled across this. I guess you guys are still fighting to war in your heads.

I find it quite amazing that GMI serbia quotes so many Serbian sources to his material and believes every word of it. The first step in lieing to yourself is self rightiousness. So you believe everything your side says, and nothing NATO says, am I correct? Ever notice, for example I'll use WWII, how many kills the Germans would quote for a given battle and say the British did? Of how many Mig 15's were shot down over Korea and F-86's? Depends of what side does the counting. I have no doubt Nato hit some wooden Mig-29's, etc., and may have lost more than it admitted. Yet I wonder how is is possible for, what, 18 nations, all with free press, could hide so much discrepancy? To hide 2,3 4 times the losses it claims? Do think it may just be possible that the truth lies somewhere in between?

How about for Serbia, a nation that sacrificed so much, fought so hard, and yet lost it all, (including Montenegro last I checked), just might it possibly be motivate to hide some of the real truth to it's people? I am not going to get into the blood fued between the peoples of the former Yougoslavia, but it is Serbia that lost the most, it is Serbia that is the outcast, and it is the Serbian people that now suffer the most. All that is left is of your militancy is your pride. Yes you fought well, yes you were creative and experienced, yes you fought beyond your size as you always have. But let it go, and consider for a moment that maybe your government didn't always tell you the truth, maybe they hid loses, maybe far more than your pride will admit. let it go.

[Sanchezz]

Well he did call for court to cancel the sentence and to declare him innocent ... so he will stay free... next decision can only clear his name totaly or sitation can stay same (2years) wich he served and he is a free man.... But now we need to find those who are responisble for massacre of 65 000 bosnian civilians... Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic.....

And you say you are a chetnik ... best thing on the world (to live in a village not to bade,to slaughter civilians and to rape girls and womman)

Here is a personal description from one serb soldier who entered srebrenica ... serb solders and chetniks are not the same thing... chetniks are brutal and dumb... so here is what he sayed:When i entered the village (near srebrenica) i couldnt believe what i saw ! i tought i was dreaming or someting ... 3 Chetniks were cooking a Turk (serbs call bosnians turks ...??) on razanj (when you punch a stick from one side to another by length through an annimal) and turning him on the fire that still burned of a mosque that was set ablaze some time ago.....

The Chetnik collaboration with Italians and Germans, did take place. In occupied Serbia, Nazis had Milan Aćimović installed as leader, and later the former Minister of War, General Milan Nedić, who governed until 1944. The Chetniks had nothing to do with this government, and were fighting the German occupation since the beginning, but later shifted all their efforts to fighting Communists and the genocide perpetrating Ustashe, who included both Croats and Muslims (who were considered Croats in the NDH).

Chetniks were operating semi-independently. One group remained under the pre-war leader, Kosta Pećanac, and started collaborating with the Germans against the partisans, who, as a matter of fact, also did collaborate with Germans in this civil-war, though this fact is much less known. In NDH, Chetniks under the command of Voivoda Đujić in the Serbian Krajina region were mostly fighting Ustaše, who aimed to exterminate Serbs. To this end, Đujić's troops collaborated with Italians, who had a sizeable population in Dalmatia, which was later expelled by Tito's Partisans in the Foibe massacres.

Still other Chetniks rallied behind Draža Mihailović, a 48 year-old Army officer who had been court-martialed by Nedić and was known to have close ties to Britain. Early in the War Mihailović offered some resistance to the German forces while collaborating with the Italians. By July 22, 1941 the Yugoslav Government-in-Exile announced that continued resistance was impossible. Although Mihailović and his exiled government would maintain a fierce propaganda campaign to convince the Allies that his Chetniks were inflicting great damage on the Axis, the Chetniks did little for the war effort and openly collaborated with the Germans and Italians while fighting Ustaše and Partisans. At their peak, Mihailović's Chetniks claimed to have three hundred thousand troops. Chetnik advocates argue that these were tactical collaborations on a local level, with the main aim to fight their common enemy - the Partisans. Chetniks viewed their ideological struggle against the Partisans as one more important than the fight against the Germans. However this collaboration continued until the end of WWII, and the allies withdrew support from the Chetniks in 1944. Mihailović was executed in 1946 for treason.



and chetniks in ww2
After the victory of Tito's Partisans, the ruling Communists recognised the atrocities but also did not forget their collaboration with the German and Italian forces. After capture in 1946, Mihailović was tried, convicted of treason, which strained the Franco-Yugoslav relations at the time, and Charles de Gaulle refused to visit Yugoslavia or meet Tito.

[bf-fly]

I realize I'm a little out of step with your recent posts since mine refers to the very first post. I hope you will forgive me for being niave', but my nation fought a civil war 140 years ago. In the smallest of ways, little remnants remain, most commonly with humorous jabs from one side or the other. In some places, mostly those places are in the smallest of minds of a very few, it still exisits. There it's an active choice to hate. In your world, anger and hatred comes much more easily, with fresh images to cirl a fist. Your hatred reaches back a very long time, long before our civil war is some cases. How does a nation overcome this? I'm not so sure, but I do know where to start looking. First, in the eyes of your children, before they are taught hate and bigotry. Do you wish for them to grow up in to same world you did? Isn't it always the hope of a parent that their children will know a better life than they did? Is more of the same better? The second way is that acient proverb, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. The step that is needed here is kindness, simple everyday kindness. Holding the bus for your Serbian or Croat neighbor, or helping out in a visable way to someone you know is different. Yes I know this is niave', and I know so little, right? Wrong, how do you make up with you wife or girlfriend? An act of kindness. For those of you who are so brave, then have the bravery to help the next town who is different than your when they are threatned by a flood or something else. Bravery is to go when no one may follow. Leadership is to lead those who go reluctantly.

How did my nation put it's civil war in the past? By magnanimous gestures of leaders and common compassion of the individual. Neighbor helping neighbor, enemy forgiving enemy. The diehards will always remain, but they can only lead the ignorant, can only lead the blind, for if you open you eyes, and open your mind, you'll see you are far more alike than different, and you've all suffered enough.

The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Will you and I mean YOU, will you teach your child who only knows love, how to hate? Will you turn your back on someone who needs help the most because he's different? Is that what will lighten YOUR burdon?

Forgive me for being so niave'. Or are you the one who is?

I assume this has fallen on deaf ears.

[spirit]

Wow, I just stumbled across this. I guess you guys are still fighting to war in your heads.

I find it quite amazing that GMI serbia quotes so many Serbian sources to his material and believes every word of it. The first step in lieing to yourself is self rightiousness. So you believe everything your side says, and nothing NATO says, am I correct? Ever notice, for example I'll use WWII, how many kills the Germans would quote for a given battle and say the British did? Of how many Mig 15's were shot down over Korea and F-86's? Depends of what side does the counting. I have no doubt Nato hit some wooden Mig-29's, etc., and may have lost more than it admitted. Yet I wonder how is is possible for, what, 18 nations, all with free press, could hide so much discrepancy? To hide 2,3 4 times the losses it claims? Do think it may just be possible that the truth lies somewhere in between?

How about for Serbia, a nation that sacrificed so much, fought so hard, and yet lost it all, (including Montenegro last I checked), just might it possibly be motivate to hide some of the real truth to it's people? I am not going to get into the blood fued between the peoples of the former Yougoslavia, but it is Serbia that lost the most, it is Serbia that is the outcast, and it is the Serbian people that now suffer the most. All that is left is of your militancy is your pride. Yes you fought well, yes you were creative and experienced, yes you fought beyond your size as you always have. But let it go, and consider for a moment that maybe your government didn't always tell you the truth, maybe they hid loses, maybe far more than your pride will admit. let it go.

Sanchezz look at him, you can learn something!
First mig-15s and f-86s loses 0 (we didn’t have those on Kosovo, I’m not sure but Serbian army didn’t have any of those)
Mig-21s and Mig-29s those we did have and we still have those today. Wooden Migs that was tactic, they were left on military airports to be destroyed so NATO and US loss count of hove much are there left.
We didn’t take heavy loses on Kosovo, 2000 soldiers from 1998 to 1999 fighting UCK, NATO and US together. Tanks and other equitant minimum lose 50-100 tanks (T-55).
There was undestroyed force of 1200 tanks, massive amounts of infantry weapons, AT and AA weapons. But factories that were making these weapons were damaged in booming.
We had to fight for our survival thru history, and we are not going to forget our ancestors that died for Serbia. You have to look at some history books and then say something. You are right about something, pz next time find more about Serbia and we can talk.

[spirit]

Well he did call for court to cancel the sentence and to declare him innocent ... so he will stay free... next decision can only clear his name totaly or sitation can stay same (2years) wich he served and he is a free man.... But now we need to find those who are responisble for massacre of 65 000 bosnian civilians... Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic.....

And you say you are a chetnik ... best thing on the world (to live in a village not to bade,to slaughter civilians and to rape girls and womman)

Here is a personal description from one serb soldier who entered srebrenica ... serb solders and chetniks are not the same thing... chetniks are brutal and dumb... so here is what he sayed:When i entered the village (near srebrenica) i couldnt believe what i saw ! i tought i was dreaming or someting ... 3 Chetniks were cooking a Turk (serbs call bosnians turks ...??) on razanj (when you punch a stick from one side to another by length through an annimal) and turning him on the fire that still burned of a mosque that was set ablaze some time ago.....

The Chetnik collaboration with Italians and Germans, did take place. In occupied Serbia, Nazis had Milan Aćimović installed as leader, and later the former Minister of War, General Milan Nedić, who governed until 1944. The Chetniks had nothing to do with this government, and were fighting the German occupation since the beginning, but later shifted all their efforts to fighting Communists and the genocide perpetrating Ustashe, who included both Croats and Muslims (who were considered Croats in the NDH).

Chetniks were operating semi-independently. One group remained under the pre-war leader, Kosta Pećanac, and started collaborating with the Germans against the partisans, who, as a matter of fact, also did collaborate with Germans in this civil-war, though this fact is much less known. In NDH, Chetniks under the command of Voivoda Đujić in the Serbian Krajina region were mostly fighting Ustaše, who aimed to exterminate Serbs. To this end, Đujić's troops collaborated with Italians, who had a sizeable population in Dalmatia, which was later expelled by Tito's Partisans in the Foibe massacres.

Still other Chetniks rallied behind Draža Mihailović, a 48 year-old Army officer who had been court-martialed by Nedić and was known to have close ties to Britain. Early in the War Mihailović offered some resistance to the German forces while collaborating with the Italians. By July 22, 1941 the Yugoslav Government-in-Exile announced that continued resistance was impossible. Although Mihailović and his exiled government would maintain a fierce propaganda campaign to convince the Allies that his Chetniks were inflicting great damage on the Axis, the Chetniks did little for the war effort and openly collaborated with the Germans and Italians while fighting Ustaše and Partisans. At their peak, Mihailović's Chetniks claimed to have three hundred thousand troops. Chetnik advocates argue that these were tactical collaborations on a local level, with the main aim to fight their common enemy - the Partisans. Chetniks viewed their ideological struggle against the Partisans as one more important than the fight against the Germans. However this collaboration continued until the end of WWII, and the allies withdrew support from the Chetniks in 1944. Mihailović was executed in 1946 for treason.



and chetniks in ww2
After the victory of Tito's Partisans, the ruling Communists recognised the atrocities but also did not forget their collaboration with the German and Italian forces. After capture in 1946, Mihailović was tried, convicted of treason, which strained the Franco-Yugoslav relations at the time, and Charles de Gaulle refused to visit Yugoslavia or meet Tito.

Sanchezz I already presume to you that I am not going to argue whit you in Serbian military forum this is site about NATO AND US LOSSES IN SERBIA 1999!
If you want create new Forum where you and your friends can say anything they want about Serbia I don’t care!
And one more thing stop copying text from some other site, and then pasting it to this forum!

[spirit]

I realize I'm a little out of step with your recent posts since mine refers to the very first post. I hope you will forgive me for being niave', but my nation fought a civil war 140 years ago. In the smallest of ways, little remnants remain, most commonly with humorous jabs from one side or the other. In some places, mostly those places are in the smallest of minds of a very few, it still exisits. There it's an active choice to hate. In your world, anger and hatred comes much more easily, with fresh images to cirl a fist. Your hatred reaches back a very long time, long before our civil war is some cases. How does a nation overcome this? I'm not so sure, but I do know where to start looking. First, in the eyes of your children, before they are taught hate and bigotry. Do you wish for them to grow up in to same world you did? Isn't it always the hope of a parent that their children will know a better life than they did? Is more of the same better? The second way is that acient proverb, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. The step that is needed here is kindness, simple everyday kindness. Holding the bus for your Serbian or Croat neighbor, or helping out in a visable way to someone you know is different. Yes I know this is niave', and I know so little, right? Wrong, how do you make up with you wife or girlfriend? An act of kindness. For those of you who are so brave, then have the bravery to help the next town who is different than your when they are threatned by a flood or something else. Bravery is to go when no one may follow. Leadership is to lead those who go reluctantly.

How did my nation put it's civil war in the past? By magnanimous gestures of leaders and common compassion of the individual. Neighbor helping neighbor, enemy forgiving enemy. The diehards will always remain, but they can only lead the ignorant, can only lead the blind, for if you open you eyes, and open your mind, you'll see you are far more alike than different, and you've all suffered enough.

The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Will you and I mean YOU, will you teach your child who only knows love, how to hate? Will you turn your back on someone who needs help the most because he's different? Is that what will lighten YOUR burdon?

Forgive me for being so niave'. Or are you the one who is?

I assume this has fallen on deaf ears.

You are :teacher3:

[Sanchezz]

Erh nice ... now when i proven my facts about the war we can continue about kosovo conflict. :). NATO loses were minimal and NATO succeded in all its plans (to drive out serbian army from kosovo) The End .. serbs left kosovo and its probably to get independent in next year.. :)

[bf-fly]

Yeah, NATO got fooled on occaision, more than it likes to admit, but you can't argure with results. The results of a decade of war mirror where it began, so what was gained, and how much (and how many) was lost?

[Imperator]

Sanchezz u admitt urself that the sebrs were not the only ones were commiting crimes in the wars. Also u say and u r glad for that that NATO got serbs out of kosovo ( their land) and that soon its going to be indepented. Ok well, now u prove that what u say is after hatred and prjudice about serbs.

NATO had detroyed an organized state and murdrered innocent ppl just in order to promote UCK terrorist organization, drug and porn, and weapon dealers. Fine! What a nice job!!!

Kosovars now terror and genocide the heroic serb population that still lives there. And altho NATO is there they do nothing. They do nothing because their reason they attacked serbia was not the human rights and the supposed genocide ( how then they r so many if genocide really existed?) but only to destroy Serbia ( just another step in their plan) and establish and settle in balkans. Me i leave native albanians out of that. Albanians did not take part on that.

If NATO was caring about human rights and genocide why now then that serbs are terrorized and get genocide by kosovars NATO that already is there does not do anything at all? Might because they had lied and that their intention was just to destroy serbia?

All of you that are dogs of americans u r going to pay back for that choice. You are going to see in what painful way u ll be betrayed by ur "friends". Keep hating and blaiming serbs for everything.

But me i m going to remind all of u american dogs. Serbs had written on walls at kosovo "WE ARE GOING TO COME BACK". Let it be screwn very well in ur head this.

[DeepEyes]

No Sarajevo071, you didn't understood! Why do you think that I would be ashamed of Skull Tower that you showed? Only fool would be!

Sanchezz was the first one that put link to "Wikipedia", so than it was OK then?

So what bosniaks do.They wanted independence, but they also want to separate Serbs.Fight for freedom Sarajevo071!It's you right! But respect other Nations will, and make compromise then.Separation of Yugoslavia is not simple stuff, YU were wery complicated country.

[DeepEyes]

So, when Serbs kill Muslim civilian it is a crime, But when Muslim kill Serb civilian it is colateral damage?
Also all Serb civil victims, are solders insted.
Can you See what you are doing? Americans allways says that wheh they kill Iraq-people.This is clasical propaganda.And storys about rapings and templs, it was situatin on all 3 sides. Also all Muslim victims are caused by Serbs???What Croats did during war, did you fought with them?


You said: on page 16 was 32,723 Muslim civilians, and now is 65 000???

Muslims and Croats want to cancel "Republika Srpska", and that is Violating of Dayton Agrement.In united bosnia Serbs allways will be OVERVOTED by Muslims and Croats.Only in "Srpska" "entity" Serbs can preserve them.

Dayton also said "NO CHANGES OF BALKANS BORDERS!!!" so if Kosovo gets it's independence(Violating of DAYTON), Serbs in Bosnia, have right to Separate, equall for all!

[spirit]

Imperator I have something to add to your text, Sanchezz you just listen and you maybe learn something new.
By resolution 1244 Serbian army has right to have limited number of soldiers on Kosovo.
Serbian army doesn’t want to send those troops on Kosovo because Kosovo Albanians, they would go mad and start war.
Western powers want Kosovo to be independent, but Russia, Serbian strongest ally doesn’t want Kosovo to be independent!
Now if Kosovo gets its independence Serbia is going to announce occupation and you have war for Kosovo 2.
Unlike in 1999 Russia is now powerful (thanks to oil prices), and it is not going to let US and NATO boom us again.
I’m not saying that US and NATO are not going to intervene, but surely not like in 1999.
And NATO is not doing quite to protect Serbs that are now living on Kosovo.
We are returning to Kosovo one way or another!

[DeepEyes]

And Sanchezz, I am NOT Chetnik.But I love my country and Serb people.

You alwaus talk about "Greather Serbia" and you forgot "Nazi Croatia" and plans of "Green Transvesal" wich is Muslim countru (Albania, and Kosovo, and half of Macedonia, and Part of Grecce, and area of Raska (part of Serbia),nad North Montenegro,And Bosnia).

But you must except that in bosnian war, you have been fighting with bosnian serbs.There are 1 200 000 Serbs.

And as you Muslims were fighting with Croats too.It was 3 side war. And in action of "Storm" Croatia attacks Serbs in Croatia, and continued to attack Serbs in Bosnia.So Croatia attacks Bosnia, don't you think?

[spirit]

Ja sam cetnik pa ne mrzim Hrvate,Bosnjake,Slovence...
Problem je u tome sto ljudi ne znaju ko su cetnicu...

[spirit]

E Sanchezz idi u Serbian military forum i procitaj odgovor!!!

[Sanchezz]

Imperator I have something to add to your text, Sanchezz you just listen and you maybe learn something new.
By resolution 1244 Serbian army has right to have limited number of soldiers on Kosovo.
Serbian army doesn’t want to send those troops on Kosovo because Kosovo Albanians, they would go mad and start war.
Western powers want Kosovo to be independent, but Russia, Serbian strongest ally doesn’t want Kosovo to be independent!
Now if Kosovo gets its independence Serbia is going to announce occupation and you have war for Kosovo 2.
Unlike in 1999 Russia is now powerful (thanks to oil prices), and it is not going to let US and NATO boom us again.
I’m not saying that US and NATO are not going to intervene, but surely not like in 1999.
And NATO is not doing quite to protect Serbs that are now living on Kosovo.
We are returning to Kosovo one way or another!

And you think that rusia would start a war with NATO because of serbia :roflmao3:

[DeepEyes]

Samuel Huntigton observes in his work “The Clash of Civilizations “ that the next conflict for the western civilization will be between West and the Islamic countries:

And The Serbs are between them! :)

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Yeah but isn't Samuel Huntington full of ****?

[spirit]

And you think that rusia would start a war with NATO because of serbia :roflmao3:

If you read my whole post, you wouldn’t ask this question, if you know to read English!

[Sanchezz]

Originally Posted by spirit View Post
Imperator I have something to add to your text, Sanchezz you just listen and you maybe learn something new.
By resolution 1244 Serbian army has right to have limited number of soldiers on Kosovo.
Serbian army doesn’t want to send those troops on Kosovo because Kosovo Albanians, they would go mad and start war.
Western powers want Kosovo to be independent, but Russia, Serbian strongest ally doesn’t want Kosovo to be independent!
Now if Kosovo gets its independence Serbia is going to announce occupation and you have war for Kosovo 2.
Unlike in 1999 Russia is now powerful (thanks to oil prices), and it is not going to let US and NATO boom us again.
I’m not saying that US and NATO are not going to intervene, but surely not like in 1999.
And NATO is not doing quite to protect Serbs that are now living on Kosovo.
We are returning to Kosovo one way or another!

1.There is not a single serb soldier on the kosovo.
2. U mean serbia will anounce occupation and get bombed to stone age.And you think that serbian army can defeat nato ground forces on the kosovo that have support of hunderts of airplanes and helicoptes... rofl
3.Serbs represent 8% population of kosovo... and NATO doesent protect them because the whole world saw what serbs do when no one intervienes.Albanians saw that serbs speak only the language of violence so they showed serbs how albanians take care of stuff :D

BTW where do you live now.... im sure that you live in the US or canada... because you are a probably a refugge from bosnia :)

[DeepEyes]

Indepemdence of Kosovo will be violating of Dayton peace, Resolution 1244 UN,and all international law.Also it will bring questions like independence of: Nothen Ireland(UK),Corsica(France),Basque Country(Spain),Trentino-Alto Adige region(Italy),Republika Srpska(Bosnia),Checenya(Russia),Tibet(China),Taiwan(China).. .
Nato will never attack Serbia again.Serbia and NATO have agreement of free passage,and it's more valuable to NATO,than passage through Kosovo, also this agreement has it's jurisdistion on Kosovo too.And that is all that US wants!When UCK attack NATO, they know were to run! :)
The only reason that US, wants Kosovo independent is that Albanians could start killing US solders on Kosovo if they don't get independence. Example: In 18th March 2004, during Albanian attack on Serbs civilians on Kosovo, 4-10 Norwegian or Sweden UN Peacekeepers were killed by Albanian terorists, because they try to protect Serb civilians.
**** will start soon!

[Soroush]

This is last warning to all of you, talk about the topic "NATO & America losses in Serbia 1999" and not anything else.

[DeepEyes]

Sorry Flanker,
There were storys that some planes were shut down by AA guns(Praga,Bofors).Man you shoud hear PRAGA's, like music to your ears.It's quite possible cause NATO's planes sometimes fly wery low, on 3 000m.Once during agrassion I saw F-16 without binoculars.And when AA Guns start to fire they climb on 100 000 000 000 000 000 000 m.

[spirit]

Sorry man, from now one only about NATO and US loses in Serbia!!:)

[spirit]

I wan in Belgrade during the 1999 war, AA guns, rockets and machineguns turned sky red.:wacky4:
When you see that you know that it was capitol of big Yugoslavia, and that it was defended by powerful JNA (Yugoslavian people army). Just to say, JNA was one of five strongest army’s in Europe!:smile1:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/5-27.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/5-26.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/5-08.jpg

[Sanchezz]

Does anybody know number of destroyed planes of NATO ???

[DeepEyes]

Yu AirForce losses in 1999:

Mig-29 11 (6 in combat, 5 on ground)
Mig-21 24 (24 on ground)Most of them not operational,probably decoy for NATO planes
J-22 1 (1, in combat)
G-4 1 (1 on ground)
G-4 Flying Stars 7 (7 on ground, acrobatic group)
G-2 18 (18 on ground)Almost all of them not operational,probably decoy for NATO planes.
Mi-14 3 (3 on ground)
Mi-8 2 (2 on ground)
An-26 2 (2 on ground)

and 10 more planes, mostly school planes(no jets),like: Lasta,Utva-75,An-2.
Total about 80 planes.

Mig-23 10
Mig-21 8 (these planes were Iraqui's and Lybia's ,landed 1987-1990 in Belgrade in order to be repared)

[Sanchezz]

Im asking about NATO loses ... how many planes NATO lost ??

[Imperator]

Greece-USA 101-95

[Sanchezz]

Greece-USA 101-95

:roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: you are nuts :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3:

[spirit]

That much plains no, but that much non mend aircraft yes.
NATO doesn’t want to say how much of there planes have been shot down!
You have to know that Yugoslavian air force also attacked NATO planes in Albania, Macedonia, and Bosnia and over Jadran Sea.

[spirit]

Captured American Hummer, on border whit Macedonia.
Hummer was captured whit its crew on March 31. 1999.

Hummer
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/h13.jpg


Crew
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/h30ramirez.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/h29gonzales.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/h28stone.jpg

Staff Sgt. Christopher Stone Stone, Spc. Steven Gonzales Staff Sgt. Andrew Ramirez

If you want to sew more pictures visit “Serbian Armor” site
It is one Serbian but all that you need to know is in my post. http://oklop2.tripod.com/hummer.htm

[spirit]

There are Russian aircrafts in Serbian service.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig29A-SRJ-18107-levo.jpg
Mig-29A

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig23ml-SFRJ-levo-72.jpg
Mig-23ML (ex. Iraqi)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig21bis-21168-ex-iraq-levo-48.jpg
Mig-21SMT (ex. Iraqi)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/MiG21UM-16158-SRJ-levo-48.jpg
Mig-21UM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/MiG21U-22901-SFRJ-levo-48.jpg
Mig-21U

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/MiG21R-26111-SFRJ-levo-48.jpg
Mig-21R

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/MiG21PFM-22719-SFRJ-levo.jpg
Mig-21PFM

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/MiG21F-13-22501-SFRJ-levo-48.jpg
Mig-21F

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig21bis-17225-SRJ-levo-48.jpg
Mig-21bis K

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig21bis-17222-SFRJ-levo-48.jpg
Mig-21bis K

[spirit]

Mig-23 in Yu (Serbia)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig23_3b.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig23_3c.jpg

[spirit]

Best Serbian fighter plain!
Mig-29

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig29yu17.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig29yu2.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig29_1.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig29yu.jpg

[spirit]

This is web about Yugoslavian (Serbian) air force, it is on English.
http://www.aeronautics.ru/yuaircraft2.htm

[DeepEyes]

As I said, many of these destroyed planes,were not operational,and Yu AirFroce probably used them as decoy(False Target).

So Real NATO "Score" was: about 20-30 planes

Mig-29 11 (6 in combat, 5 on ground)
Mig-21 24 (24 on ground)Most of them not operational,probably decoy for NATO planes
J-22 1 (1 in combat)
G-4 1 (1 on ground)

Rest of destroyed planes were wrecks, on aircrafts "Graveyard", near the airfield.
Example: G-2 is wery old training aircraft,and during 80's it was replaced by new better G-4 "Super Galeb". So there was not enough money to keep maintaining these crafts.Lack of money during 1990-1999 bring that YU AirForce was bearly keep operational crafts like (Mig-29,Nig-21,J-22,G-4,Sa341)Also using G-2 during NATO Agression would be a suicide.

AFTER NATO Agression, Yu Airforce had:
Mig-29 Fulcrum 4
Mig-21 Fishbed 49
J-22 Orao 32
G-4 SuperGaleb 42
G-2 Galeb 0
An-26 Curl 1
Mi-8 Hip 3
Mi-14 Haze 0
Mi-24 Hind 3-4
Sa 341 Gazele 51
Utva-75 23
Yak-40 1

[DeepEyes]

Thanks Spirit wery nice of you!
But Iraqi's and Lybia's Mig-23 and Mig-21 were never in Yu Airforce.They all have been destroyed in Air Institute on Batajnica.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

And when AA Guns start to fire they climb on 100 000 000 000 000 000 000 m.You mean the AA rounds left our solar system?
:roflmao3:Greece-USA 101-95ROFL, Greece didn't even participate in the aggression.Captured American Hummer, on border whit Macedonia.
Hummer was captured whit its crew on March 31. 1999.

Hummer
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/h13.jpg
http://oklop2.tripod.com/hummer.htm
Cool

[spirit]

As I said, many of these destroyed planes,were not operational,and Yu AirFroce probably used them as decoy(False Target).

So Real NATO "Score" was: about 20-30 planes

Mig-29 11 (6 in combat, 5 on ground)
Mig-21 24 (24 on ground)Most of them not operational,probably decoy for NATO planes
J-22 1 (1 in combat)
G-4 1 (1 on ground)

Rest of destroyed planes were wrecks, on aircrafts "Graveyard", near the airfield.
Example: G-2 is wery old training aircraft,and during 80's it was replaced by new better G-4 "Super Galeb". So there was not enough money to keep maintaining these crafts.Lack of money during 1990-1999 bring that YU AirForce was bearly keep operational crafts like (Mig-29,Nig-21,J-22,G-4,Sa341)Also using G-2 during NATO Agression would be a suicide.

AFTER NATO Agression, Yu Airforce had:
Mig-29 Fulcrum 4
Mig-21 Fishbed 49
J-22 Orao 32
G-4 SuperGaleb 42
G-2 Galeb 0
An-26 Curl 1
Mi-8 Hip 3
Mi-14 Haze 0
Mi-24 Hind 3-4
Sa 341 Gazele 51
Utva-75 23
Yak-40 1

I’m not expert for plains and air force, I’m more for ground warfare.
But I know something’s about Serbian air force.
Those numbers are not entirely correct, I’m totally sure that we have 5 or more Mig-29 and they are going to be modernized in month or two. Serbian air force has somewhere about 300-400 aircraft and helicopters. Not all are operational.

[spirit]

Thanks Spirit wery nice of you!
But Iraqi's and Lybia's Mig-23 and Mig-21 were never in Yu Airforce.They all have been destroyed in Air Institute on Batajnica.


That I don’t know, even if they were in Yu air force they would be destroyed by NATO AND US.

Shut down Serbian Mig-29

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/1999-Mig-29Peric.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/1999-mig-29.jpg

[Sanchezz]

And nobody has links or official info about NATO and Serb losses in the conflict i guess ?

[spirit]

And nobody has links or official info about NATO and Serb losses in the conflict i guess ?

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/natolosses-review01.htm
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosovo_crisis/nato/

[Sanchezz]

And whats the summary of the losses... can u post a number and type of airplanes destroyed... russian link you posted is pure propaganda... and on the other u cant tell whats true and whats not because it shows info from 3 diffrent news organizations.. each claiming diffrent stuff.

[spirit]

I don’t know, NATO doesn’t want to say how many aircraft and helicopters they loss in Serbia in1999!
I can’t tell you for sure, but NATO and US suffered more loses in Serbia 1999 then in operation “Iraqi freedom”.
Serbian air force and AA weaponry where in much better shape then Iraqi.
Iraq suffered massive loses in operation “Desert storm” and because of sanctions they newer recovered.
Serbia had sanctions form beginning of 90s but our military was in better condition.

[Sanchezz]

So there is no info about losses... and how do you know that NATO lost more planes in serbia than iraq ????

[DeepEyes]

"You mean the AA rounds left our solar system?"

Goood one! :) :) :) :)
As a matter of a fact, NATO Planes often flew under 3 000m for precise targetting.And when AA guns started to fire, NATO planes cilmbed on 10 000 m. (Praga,Bofors... kicks ***!!!)

About that Hummer, you can use "BodyFine" Ghit and BODY 930 to cover holes.Mabye some Anti Corossion stuff, and Paint and whola! A New Hummer,Arnold Swartzeneger... can only cry for it! :)
Change the tires will be...

300-400 planes in YU AirForce.NOOOOOOO!!!!!, that is incorect!!!!
About 150 crafts,it's real.

NOW: Serbia Air Force

Only 5 of Mig-29's and they are NOT operational!!!! (OUT of order,they are NOT flying :( )
There is only 1 MIG-21 that is operational NOW and it's member of 126. Lovacko Avijacijska Eskadrila "Delte" (126th Fighter Air Squadron "Deltas")
And dozen of J-22 Orao and G-4 Super Galeb. (They protect our sky now)
And Mi-8,An-26,Sa341,Mi-24... **** like this!

Serb government talk whole year, mabye two,about,not modernisation of Mig-29, but overhaul (engine,radar... all equipment,because Serb's Mig-29 are wrecks!!!), and for those 5 Mig-29's it will be cost under 80 milion dollars, and I know the date when they gonna do that, NEVER!!! They should do it in Fall 2005, then in Spring 2006,but nothing happened. They have money, 80 mil. dollars are nothing, but they don't want to do that.Sad but true :(

[spirit]

5 Mig-29s are out of order but they are going to be repaired and modernized, not fore 80 but fore 30 million dollars. Whit those 5 migs there are going to modernize 6 helicopters too.
Money is already there, it is just question have are they going to be sent to Russia.
So only technical difficulties now, not money problem!

Second thing about Serbian air force, there are about 270 aircraft, I don’t have exact information but I going to find it.
There are more aircraft in use then you think. You have my word.


http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i41/Dejan_SCG/mig29yu.jpg:)

[Hawk_nr1]

they should have learned from the balkan war and skip the military and feed their people because they are starving

[Sanchezz]

Serbs are not starving.... :) dont be silly its just they could use money to improve their industry and they should cooperate more and extradite war criminals and so that the ordinary normal serbs who are not nationalists dont suffer because of those insane expansionalists...

[DeepEyes]

Beleve me Spirit, Serbia doesn't have wings anymore. Mabye 2 of Mig-21 are operational now,and J-22,G-4 of course.!My numbers are 100% correct. I can't wait to see those Migs-29 flying, but I doubt that it will hapend.

Official NATO:

"Jun 9, 1999 Operation Allied Force ended. More than 800 SAMs were fired at NATO aircraft, but only one F-117 and one F-16 were downed. Another F-117 suffered minor damage from a SA-3 that exploded nearby and two A-10s were damaged by anti-aircraft artillery fire. During the campaign, 35,219 sorties were flown, 16,587 non-precision guided missiles and 6,728 precision guided missiles (23,315) were dropped."

http://www.af.mil/history/milestones.asp

[spirit]

I don’t know where are you getting your information’s, but I know that Serbian air force has about 270 planes, I’m not saying that they are all operational, NOT ALL ARE IN FUNCTION!
Hove many aircraft are operational I don’t know, no one knows that.
Serbian military, at this time, doesn’t have money for fuel and maintenance of aircraft.
Until something happens, things are going to turn from bad to worse.
After 20 years Serbian government gave 30 million euros for repair and modernization of its air force (5 migs-29 and 6 helicopters)!
Serbian air force has to wait for better days!

[spirit]

About NATO Losses
I have some information about Yugoslavian air force attacking NATO aircrafts and airfield in Bosnia, Albania and over Jadran sea.

[Sanchezz]

Beleve me Spirit, Serbia doesn't have wings anymore. Mabye 2 of Mig-21 are operational now,and J-22,G-4 of course.!My numbers are 100% correct. I can't wait to see those Migs-29 flying, but I doubt that it will hapend.

Official NATO:

"Jun 9, 1999 Operation Allied Force ended. More than 800 SAMs were fired at NATO aircraft, but only one F-117 and one F-16 were downed. Another F-117 suffered minor damage from a SA-3 that exploded nearby and two A-10s were damaged by anti-aircraft artillery fire. During the campaign, 35,219 sorties were flown, 16,587 non-precision guided missiles and 6,728 precision guided missiles (23,315) were dropped."

http://www.af.mil/history/milestones.asp


thanks for the info deepeyes.

Spirit... YAF airpanes tried to attack airfields in bosnia but all YAF airplanes who actualy tried that were destroyed.I remember watching on TV reportage about part of mig-21 faling into backyard of some man in eastern bosnia lol :D

[Danno]

Hello everyone, i was thinking about starting my first post here.
1. I am a bosnian muslim by religion (but honestly not very religious)
2. That information about the shot planes (60 of them) was probably the biggest load of crap ive heard since that iraqi guy claiming that americans soldiers are nowhere near iraq (when they were actually in baghdad)
3. All 3 sides did war crimes during 1992-1995 but serbian side did most crimes by far that it cannot be compared to what croat and bosnian buslims/bosnijaks (whatever we decided to call is nowdays:P) did.
4. Bosnian Muslims DID support the nazis during WWII there is NO doubt or lie about that, not even i will deny that and i am a muslim. But not ALL bosnians did.
5. The great serbia is no more, its BNP capita is as low as Bosnians, only country that have succeded and actually can keep their chins high are croatians and slovenians (they have rebuilt many parts and also have their tourism)
Even tough croatia is nowdays much nicer to go to then the rest of then is because of the wonderful coast they have (the north part looks like ****)


Want info about bosnian muslims army and their agression during WWII search for Handzar/Handjar/Handschar

This was german largest divison of 20.000 men
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbt-s7bYIqI&mode=related&search=
this is no ********. At least i got the guts to admit some things that we Bosnian Muslims may not be proud of. But obviously SOME of you dont.

My 3 cents.. and a few pennies.

[TOMMYJO]

thanks for the info deepeyes.

Spirit... YAF airpanes tried to attack airfields in bosnia but all YAF airplanes who actualy tried that were destroyed.I remember watching on TV reportage about part of mig-21 faling into backyard of some man in eastern bosnia lol :D

The Yugoslav Air Force did not try and attack any airfield during the Kosovo campaign. No such missions were flown.

The aircraft that you saw was the remains of two Yugoslav MiG-29s that were drawn across the border when engaged by two USAF F-15s patrolling Bosnian airspace. One of the MiG-29 pilots ejected and the other was killed. Both MiG-29s fell in Bosnian territory.

[TOMMYJO]

About NATO Losses
I have some information about Yugoslavian air force attacking NATO aircrafts and airfield in Bosnia, Albania and over Jadran sea.

No you don't. What you have is the remnants of the very poor propaganda campaign that was instigated by the then Yugoslav Ministry of Information. They created the stories of the raids on Tuzla, Bosnia and Rinas, Albania. The Yugoslav Air Force were disgusted by their actions. The ghost writers of the Yugoslav Ministry of Information even altered the post combat reports of the Yugoslav MiG-29 unit 127 Lae. The pilots combat stories were altered to give them air-to-air kills against NATO aircraft when in fact them claimed none before being shot down themselves.

The claims of air raids on Rinas and Tuzla are laughable when you read the stories created on the web. The people who created them did no research into them. For example part of the Russian element of SFOR in Bosnia was stationed at the airfield of Tuzla. Strange isn't it that the Russian Colonel and his staff did not see an air raid on the airfield. The Rinas airbase was used by the United Nations for relief aid flights. Russian transports also participatd in these aid flights. Strange that the flights were not stopped due to any air raid and neutral nations participating saw no air raids.

The stories you have were nothing more than very cheap propaganda which the Yugoslav Air Force distance themselves completely.

After the conflict the truth about the disinformation campaign was revealed by Bojan Bugarcic on 25th November 1999. Bugarcic, was the Senior Advisor on International Affairs to Yugoslav President Milosevic.

He [Bugarcic] said that, throughout the war, a tremendous, and extremely effective, propaganda campaign had been mounted by the Serbian military. The aim was to keep the populace believing their forces were mounting a spirited defence. "Using the state broadcaster, unofficial 'Russian intelligence' web pages and Army communiqués, the deception had been so successful that many people were fooled. My 22-year-old translator, Vlada Kopric, was one example. While he vehemently denounced the government-controlled RTS media network as spouting 'pure lies,' his explorations on the Internet had led him to the bogus Russian intelligence site. As a result, up until my November interview with Bugarcic, Vlada had truly believed that the Serbian military had successfully shot down 78 NATO aircraft. "He was devestated when he learned the truth."

[DeepEyes]

"but I know that Serbian air force has about 270 planes, I’m not saying that they are all operational, NOT ALL ARE IN FUNCTION!"

I beleve it's now about 200 crafts.Doesn't matter. Question is: in that 200 crafts, what is a number of crafts that have real combat valye?

Sanchezz, Official NATO is ********.
When YAF, shutdown F-177 during first days of Agression, they deny that.They hope that wrackage is impossible to recognise, and after YU Government showed pictures,where F-117 is easy to recognise,NATO confess it's loss.It's same for that F-16.Thay confessed it's loss when Serb government showed proff.Otherwise they always denied.
And as I sad, when you hit NATO plane,with missile,he explode,burn out,and fall form 3-10 km.What's left,it's hard to see what is it.

Why it's so hard to believe that in 1999 NATO lost 60++ crafts? In 1999 Yugoslavia had hundreds of SAMS,RADAR sites,AA Guns...

For exmple, when RADAR is turned on it's need only 3-4 seconds to lock target and fire missle.And then RADAR change it's position.Some SAMS had range 250km. KUB for example had 30km range, and NATO planes flew on 3-10km. NATO anti radar plane can attack 2-3 radar sites, but when you have 7-8 radar sites near each other and they cooperate, they turn on,target,and fire,and then shut down.And then another one do that,and another,and another,and another...

"3. All 3 sides did war crimes during 1992-1995 but serbian side did most crimes by far that it cannot be compared to what croat and bosnian buslims/bosnijaks (whatever we decided to call is nowdays:P) did."

As I said, when Serb die, he was: Solder,Terorist,Murder,Monster..., but when Bosniak or Croat die,he was a civilian.
I know that Bosniaks suffered most during 1992-1995, 65 000 souls. Is that 65 000 victims hurt more then 30 000 dead Serb souls or 7 000 Croats?

[DeepEyes]

Some nice picture:
This F-16 was shut down on 2. may 1999.

[Danno]

Im gonna go for the "official death count" that was stated and linked to wikipedia.
Bosnian/Bosnjak citizens:
32,723 civilians killed
31,270 soldiers killed
Republic of Serbia:
3,555 civilians killed
24,206 soldiers killed
Croatian Council:
1,899 civilians killed
5,439 soldiers killed

Bosniaks obviously had more soldier casualties then serbs.
I have not accused ALL serbs for being terrorists or murderers. There were also serbs that wanted this war simply to end and also serbs who defended bosnia (and vice versa muslems that fought for serbs). What brought this war to a big attention is the fact of how many CIVILIANS were killed and not to start the debate about all the mass graves that are still today being found. I am ashamed of the muslim mujahedin brigades that commited crimes against serbian civilians maybe you should feel the same regarding the civilians in bosnia? obviously the death count can tell you a lot about what has happened?

my 2 cants and few pennies and a nickle

[Danno]

and about your surface-to air defence.
the whole of yugoslavia mainly has older weaponry. no extreme technology there. everything is still used that was created 1970-1980. also those planes that were flewn over serbia are top pilots of whole of US/Nato, they are well trained to avoid heatseekers and also using their flairs and chaffs wisely. Same as with hizbollah that tried to shoot down israeli planes without success, why? well simply because israeli pilots are good.

another few cents.

[TOMMYJO]

"but I know that Serbian air force has about 270 planes, I’m not saying that they are all operational, NOT ALL ARE IN FUNCTION!"

I beleve it's now about 200 crafts.Doesn't matter. Question is: in that 200 crafts, what is a number of crafts that have real combat valye?

Sanchezz, Official NATO is ********.
When YAF, shutdown F-177 during first days of Agression, they deny that.They hope that wrackage is impossible to recognise, and after YU Government showed pictures,where F-117 is easy to recognise,NATO confess it's loss.It's same for that F-16.Thay confessed it's loss when Serb government showed proff.Otherwise they always denied.
And as I sad, when you hit NATO plane,with missile,he explode,burn out,and fall form 3-10 km.What's left,it's hard to see what is it.

Why it's so hard to believe that in 1999 NATO lost 60++ crafts? In 1999 Yugoslavia had hundreds of SAMS,RADAR sites,AA Guns...

For exmple, when RADAR is turned on it's need only 3-4 seconds to lock target and fire missle.And then RADAR change it's position.Some SAMS had range 250km. KUB for example had 30km range, and NATO planes flew on 3-10km. NATO anti radar plane can attack 2-3 radar sites, but when you have 7-8 radar sites near each other and they cooperate, they turn on,target,and fire,and then shut down.And then another one do that,and another,and another,and another...

"3. All 3 sides did war crimes during 1992-1995 but serbian side did most crimes by far that it cannot be compared to what croat and bosnian buslims/bosnijaks (whatever we decided to call is nowdays:P) did."

As I said, when Serb die, he was: Solder,Terorist,Murder,Monster..., but when Bosniak or Croat die,he was a civilian.
I know that Bosniaks suffered most during 1992-1995, 65 000 souls. Is that 65 000 victims hurt more then 30 000 dead Serb souls or 7 000 Croats?

Your logic is flawed. The pilots from both the F-16 and F-117 were rescued from inside Serbia. It is standard procedure to not confirm the loss knowing that the pilots had established communications and authenticated that they were still alive. There was only ever two Combat Search and Rescue missions flown and those were for the pilots of the USAF F-117 and USAF F-16. No other combat search and rescue missions were flown. The reason for that was that no other NATO aircraft were lost in combat. There were no further ejections over Yugoslavia and no NATO aircrew lost their lives in combat.

The Yugoslav Ministry of Information went into overdrive with the claims. They even had B-52 and B-2s on their shot down list. All they could claim was scores of NATO aircrew captured and yet could show no further wreckage or even the aircrew themseleves. The only Prisoners of War exchanged between the two sides was monitored by the Red Cross and none of them were aircrew. The POWs held by the Yugoslavs were the group of US Army soldiers captured were from the United Nations mission along the Macedonian border. NATO held and repatriated 3 VJ soldiers that had been captured by the KLA in Kosovo and passed onto NATO.

[Sanchezz]

"but I know that Serbian air force has about 270 planes, I’m not saying that they are all operational, NOT ALL ARE IN FUNCTION!"

I beleve it's now about 200 crafts.Doesn't matter. Question is: in that 200 crafts, what is a number of crafts that have real combat valye?

Sanchezz, Official NATO is ********.
When YAF, shutdown F-177 during first days of Agression, they deny that.They hope that wrackage is impossible to recognise, and after YU Government showed pictures,where F-117 is easy to recognise,NATO confess it's loss.It's same for that F-16.Thay confessed it's loss when Serb government showed proff.Otherwise they always denied.
And as I sad, when you hit NATO plane,with missile,he explode,burn out,and fall form 3-10 km.What's left,it's hard to see what is it.

Why it's so hard to believe that in 1999 NATO lost 60++ crafts? In 1999 Yugoslavia had hundreds of SAMS,RADAR sites,AA Guns...

For exmple, when RADAR is turned on it's need only 3-4 seconds to lock target and fire missle.And then RADAR change it's position.Some SAMS had range 250km. KUB for example had 30km range, and NATO planes flew on 3-10km. NATO anti radar plane can attack 2-3 radar sites, but when you have 7-8 radar sites near each other and they cooperate, they turn on,target,and fire,and then shut down.And then another one do that,and another,and another,and another...

"3. All 3 sides did war crimes during 1992-1995 but serbian side did most crimes by far that it cannot be compared to what croat and bosnian buslims/bosnijaks (whatever we decided to call is nowdays:P) did."
As I said, when Serb die, he was: Solder,Terorist,Murder,Monster..., but when Bosniak or Croat die,he was a civilian.
I know that Bosniaks suffered most during 1992-1995, 65 000 souls. Is that 65 000 victims hurt more then 30 000 dead Serb souls or 7 000 Croats?

Im not gonna comment this because this is funny and false fact that Milosevic es propaganda machine distributed to those serbs who were dumb and didnt know that that is imposible,

If it was so easy to shoot down aircrafts no one would build them.NATO airplanes have so many counter-measures and evasive manuevers that you cant comprehend :)

[Sanchezz]

Im gonna go for the "official death count" that was stated and linked to wikipedia.
Bosnian/Bosnjak citizens:
32,723 civilians killed/lost
31,270 soldiers killed
Republic of Serbia:
3,555 civilians killed/lost
24,206 soldiers killed
Croatian Council:
1,899 civilians killed
5,439 soldiers killed

Bosniaks obviously had more soldier casualties then serbs.
I have not accused ALL serbs for being terrorists or murderers. There were also serbs that wanted this war simply to end and also serbs who defended bosnia (and vice versa muslems that fought for serbs). What brought this war to a big attention is the fact of how many CIVILIANS were killed and not to start the debate about all the mass graves that are still today being found. I am ashamed of the muslim mujahedin brigades that commited crimes against serbian civilians maybe you should feel the same regarding the civilians in bosnia? obviously the death count can tell you a lot about what has happened?

my 2 cants and few pennies and a nickle
Serbs are obvious criminals and aggressors... 3300 serbian civilians died and
32,723 bosnian civilians...... and bosnian army didnt have 5% of equipment that serbian did ...

[snc128]

Im not gonna comment this because this is funny and false fact that Milosevic es propaganda machine distributed to those serbs who were dumb and didnt know that that is imposible,

If it was so easy to shoot down aircrafts no one would build them.NATO airplanes have so many counter-measures and evasive manuevers that you cant comprehend :)


you are throughly right.

[DeepEyes]

"I am ashamed of the muslim mujahedin brigades that commited crimes against serbian civilians maybe you should feel the same regarding the civilians in bosnia?"

Danno.Of course I ashamed.All civil victims for me are the same,Serb,Croat,Muslim.We are all people.And when some of them do war crime, I will call it a war crime, NOT colateral damage like USA did when they kill civilians.

On Balkan there are: Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks, Albanians, Croats, Bosniaks... they don't have another or spare country.Aspirations for ethnic space of antoher leads to war.I guess that at the end of 20th century are impossible sacrifications of whole nation in order to make small changes on ethinc map.