ME Air Force Ranking

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

Please rank the best five airforces in the ME. Consider technology and quantity. Give your rationaly behind the ranking, i.e. why did you choose the order. The pool of countries include (Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Israel, Saudi, Syria, UAE, Kwait, Oman, Bahrain)

[Aimster]

1) Israel
2) Saudi Arabia
3) Egypt
4) UAE (They are moving up fast)
5) ?

[GER_Mark]

1. Israel
2. US Airforce
3. US Navy
4. Saudi Arabia
5. UAE

[Highsky]

1)Israel
2)Saudi arabia
3)Egypte
4)Iran
5)UAE

[Pure_sunni]

(1) Israel, Got many experience and Billions of support from USA to air force development

(2) Saudi Arabia , Got Moderna high tech planes from USA

(3) Egypt, Very modern planes also bought from USA

(4) Iran ( Dosent need to buy can mass build it's own

(5) UAE ( Moving fast development with military planes

[shida pistool]

1- Israel(Good Tech & Plane + Good Pilots )
2- Saudia Arabia(Good Planes + Good Pilots from USA,UK and Pakistan)
3- Egypt(Good planes + good pilots)
4- UAE(Good planes + Pilots from USA and Pakistan)
5- Iran(Good pilots but lacks Tech and planes)

[Highsky]

(1) Israel, Got many experience and Billions of support from USA to air force development

(2) Saudi Arabia , Got Moderna high tech planes from USA

(3) Egypt, Very modern planes also bought from USA

(4) Iran ( Dosent need to buy can mass build it's own

(5) UAE ( Moving fast development with military planes

well said , and Iran is 27 years under sanction whiches is deadly :)

[hammerfast]

1. Israel
2. US Airforce
3. US Navy
4. Saudi Arabia
5. UAE

LOL !
that was a good one

[mo*]

Israel
Iran(doing it on her own)
Egypt
Saudi
Syria

[LP_IRIAF]

Forget the technology and quantity of ME Air Forces , it all depends on how and who will support them in case of a long war..If there will be no support from US or any other foreign countries(including their pilots) , then IRIAF will be the first ; otherwise Israel , Egypt , Saudi , Iran(the rest are at the 5th place !)..

[user0000]

Forget the technology and quantity of ME Air Forces , it all depends on how and who will support them in case of a long war..If there will be no support from US or any other foreign countries(including their pilots) , then IRIAF will be the first ; otherwise Israel , Egypt , Saudi , Iran(the rest are at the 5th place !)..

LP, it is great of you to join us! :)
God bless you! :)

[GER_Mark]

I doubt any Middle East Airforce exept Israel can mess with 1 or even more american aircraft carriers

[Arman]

The carriers are difficult to sink, but they are not too difficult to make unusable.

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

Forget the technology and quantity of ME Air Forces , it all depends on how and who will support them in case of a long war..If there will be no support from US or any other foreign countries(including their pilots) , then IRIAF will be the first ; otherwise Israel , Egypt , Saudi , Iran(the rest are at the 5th place !)..
Very good point. Saudi's Eagles and UAE Vipers Block 60 are junk and Egypt's Vipers without spare parts. US, Pakestatni, and lot of mercenaries flow Saudi and UAE fighters. What do you think about: Saudis are goint to buy Typhoons (excellent fighter) to diversify their inventory? Egypt's Mirages and MIGs? and Whether Egyptian pilots flow their planes or not?

[admin]

1. Israel
2. US Airforce
3. US Navy
4. Saudi Arabia
5. UAE

in skills,

America
Israel
Iran
Turkey
Egypt
Saudi
UAE

in technology

America
Israel/Saudi
Turkey
Egypt
UAE
Iran

[Arman]

The governments in Egypt, Saudi, and some other Arab regimes are very instable and some are about to collapse. In case an anti-west government comes in place (which is the most likely thing to happen), the air force in all these countries can be considered junk, whether they have eurofighters or american fighters.

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

The governments in Egypt, Saudi, and some other Arab regimes are very instable and some are about to collapse. In case an anti-west government comes in place (which is the most likely thing to happen), the air force in all these countries can be considered junk, whether they have eurofighters or american fighters.
That can exactly be applied to the Phantoms and Tomcats with Iran before the revolution. I am quite surprised by how you guys considered these outdated shabby Tomcats and F-4s without spare parts on par with Vipers and Mirage 2000s in other countries (Oman, Jordan, Bahrain) or F-18s in Kwait or MIG 29s in Algeria (she has 70+ new Fulcrums).

[4X-IL]

in skills,

America
Israel
Iran
Turkey
Egypt
Saudi
UAE

in technology

America
Israel/Saudi
Turkey
Egypt
UAE
Iran

American pilots are better than the israelis?
ROFL
if we had a ranking of pilots skills americans were behind Israel India Iran Pakistan and many many more.


American have too much pilots without anyone actually good to teach them.
US have only the technology and the man power, which makes her a super power.

the skills of the regular pilots \ regular soldier in the US is low.

[Arman]

That can exactly be applied to the Phantoms and Tomcats with Iran before the revolution. I am quite surprised by how you guys considered these outdated shabby Tomcats and F-4s without spare parts on par with Vipers and Mirage 2000s in other countries (Oman, Jordan, Bahrain) or F-18s in Kwait or MIG 29s in Algeria (she has 70+ new Fulcrums).
My friend, the way things stand today, once oil runs out the Arabs will start begging for help whilst starving to death. This all while Iran is already not dependant on oil anymore.

You can not compare Iranian ingenuity with the rest of the countries. Iran is what it is today, in almost complete isolation. The rest of the middle-eastern countries are what they are, with everyone's help.

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

This all while Iran is already not dependant on oil anymore.

80% of Iran's exports is fossil energy. It even imports oil products from Turkey. It is actually worse than country like UAE where oil is 33% of GDP. I don't know what the word 'anymore' means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates

It will surprise many to know that Iran IMPORTS gasoline. It is shameful not to master the technology of the only dependable resource you have.
http://www.payvand.com/news/05/jul/1084.html
http://www.valve-world.net/articles/iran_oilrefine.asp

The isolation you're talking about is because of the fascist mullahs. Iran could've had much more diverse and industrialized economy had they absorbed more investments or built a more dynamic oil independent economy. It is sad to notice how some Iranians are very good in regurgitating the mullahs' propaganda without actually reading about their country.

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

if we had a ranking of pilots skills americans were behind Israel India Iran Pakistan and many many more.

I beg for a proof. Please don't cite the sham Cope India because it is a farce to ask more money for F-22 and F-35 projects. They flew "red-flagged" eagles in 2004, which translates to "crippled eagles" against MKIs.
I don't know why should NOT american pilots be very good. Do you imply that americans are inherently 'inept' or what.

[Arman]

80% of Iran's exports is fossil energy. It even imports oil products from Turkey. It is actually worse than country like UAE where oil is 33% of GDP. I don't know what the word 'anymore' means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates

It will surprise many to know that Iran IMPORTS gasoline. It is shameful not to master the technology of the only dependable resource you have.
http://www.payvand.com/news/05/jul/1084.html
http://www.valve-world.net/articles/iran_oilrefine.asp
That is old information. According to the I.M.F, Iran's dependance on oil is a bit over 50 percent, and therefore it is not dependant on it.

Iran imports petroleum spirit, because we are not far enough in refinery technology to produce it. But it is something that we are working on hard.

[4X-IL]

I beg for a proof. Please don't cite the sham Cope India because it is a farce to ask more money for F-22 and F-35 projects. They flew "red-flagged" eagles in 2004, which translates to "crippled eagles" against MKIs.
I don't know why should NOT american pilots be very good. Do you imply that americans are inherently 'inept' or what.


1 good and solid proof is a simple exercise -

F-14D's and F-18C's lost to israeli F-16A's in a joint american israeli exercise with a ratio of 1:14.

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

1 good and solid proof is a simple exercise -

F-14D's and F-18C's lost to israeli F-16A's in a joint american israeli exercise with a ratio of 1:14.
Sounds impressive, source??

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

According to the I.M.F, Iran's dependance on oil is a bit over 50 percent Source please.

[Arman]

im doing my homework now... maybe tomorrow i'll look for it.

[admin]

1 good and solid proof is a simple exercise -

F-14D's and F-18C's lost to israeli F-16A's in a joint american israeli exercise with a ratio of 1:14.

Doesn't mean anything, in time of war America can beat Israel's air force, they are better trained, Israeli air force is trained for defence and accurate strikes against Arab targets, Americans are trained for most possible scenarios, and if it wasn't for the fact that the world is watching they could easily destroy countries with minimal casualties. America has proved itself against the best since WWII, Israel has only had Arab opponents who were not exactly a good airforce. Even with decades of help from America the Saudi airforce is still not very good, so you can imagine the quality of the Arab air force since 1947.

Israeli air force is good at precision targeted attacks (with quite abit of experience), America is good at total destruction.

Also comparing the Indian air force with the American air force is like comparing a donkey with a porsche, they are just not the same quality and it's insulting, to the Americans.

80% of Iran's exports is fossil energy. It even imports oil products from Turkey. It is actually worse than country like UAE where oil is 33% of GDP. I don't know what the word 'anymore' means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates

It will surprise many to know that Iran IMPORTS gasoline. It is shameful not to master the technology of the only dependable resource you have.
http://www.payvand.com/news/05/jul/1084.html
http://www.valve-world.net/articles/iran_oilrefine.asp

The isolation you're talking about is because of the fascist mullahs. Iran could've had much more diverse and industrialized economy had they absorbed more investments or built a more dynamic oil independent economy. It is sad to notice how some Iranians are very good in regurgitating the mullahs' propaganda without actually reading about their country.

you are comparing Iran with UAE? how about comparing Iran with a country of the same situation, Iran's economy is still recovering from the war with Iraq, when Iraq's economy failed Iran's one remained but very damaged. Iran's economic growth increases evr higher and their reliance on oil is decreasing ever lower, Iran has a pretty big population, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait or Qatar are not in the same position, Iran's oil production isn't to the maximum either, they should with adequate research be able to produce almost as much as Saudi Arabia.

[4X-IL]

Doesn't mean anything, in time of war America can beat Israel's air force, they are better trained, Israeli air force is trained for defence and accurate strikes against Arab targets, Americans are trained for most possible scenarios, and if it wasn't for the fact that the world is watching they could easily destroy countries with minimal casualties. America has proved itself against the best since WWII, Israel has only had Arab opponents who were not exactly a good airforce. Even with decades of help from America the Saudi airforce is still not very good, so you can imagine the quality of the Arab air force since 1947.

Israeli air force is good at precision targeted attacks (with quite abit of experience), America is good at total destruction.

Also comparing the Indian air force with the American air force is like comparing a donkey with a porsche, they are just not the same quality and it's insulting, to the Americans.


you know
because i can't tell you things like i would've wanted to about the training of the IAF,
i'll just say: " ^_^ ", figure it out :].



and the source:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17420

[admin]

you know
because i can't tell you things like i would've wanted to about the training of the IAF,
i'll just say: " ^_^ ", figure it out :].



and the source:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17420

Hi, i didn't read the report because i don't read anything from worldnetdaily, that news site has no credibility at all.

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

Also comparing the Indian air force with the American air force is like comparing a donkey with a porsche.
LMAO :D :D :D well said.

you are comparing Iran with UAE? how about comparing Iran with a country of the same situation, Iran's economy is still recovering from the war with Iraq, when Iraq's economy failed Iran's one remained but very damaged You mean that Iran invaded Kwait like Iraq.

Iran's oil production isn't to the maximum either, they should with adequate research be able to produce almost as much as Saudi Arabia.
I hope you believe me when I say, I really wish they manage to do so without forgetting to diversify their economy.

[admin]

I hope you believe me when I say, I really wish they manage to do so without forgetting to diversify their economy

Till a few years ago Iran was still paying the debts for the Iran Iraq war! Iran's population nearly doubled during it's worse time economically for many years, (1965-2005) and with an economy mainly reliance on oil from the shah, Iran had it's work cut out to change, they are changing but it wouldn't be rapid, it will be slow, Iran can't afford to invest tens of billions in other industries right now at this time, doing it slowly is what's right for Iran and they are doing it now, every year they rely less and less on oil.

[Kilo877]

Well I don't know if it can really be considered as part of the middle east but Algeria (as pharaoh mentioned) has upgraded its two squadrons of Su-24s and Is on the verge of signing a big deal with Russia for new planes (Mig-29SMT and Su-30MKI) as well as new Tanks and SAM systems. This would make It one of the best equipped in the area IMHO.

heres an article.....
Russia, Algeria to Strike $4Bln Arms Sale Deal

Russia is set to sell $4 billion worth of arms to Algeria, in what
would be its largest post-Soviet defense export deal



By Lyuba Pronina
Staff Writer
.

"The work on the package of contracts for the delivery of a large part of Russian weapons to Algeria is practically complete, and they are likely to be signed in February," Interfax quoted an unnamed source in the defense industry.

The multibillion-dollar list of weapons includes 36 MiG-29SMT and 28 Su-30 fighter jets, eight divisions of S-300MPU2 Favorit air defense systems and a batch of T-90 battle tanks, the source said. Along with the four deals, Russia will sign a few more contracts for the upgrade of Soviet-made arms already in Algeria's possession, the source said.

The news was confirmed by an independent defense source, who said the package of contracts had already been ratified and was expected to be signed during President Vladimir Putin's visit to the North African country late next month or in March.

MiG, Irkut, which makes Sukhoi fighter jets, and the Almaz-Antei air defense concern refused to comment, as did Rosoboronexport, the state-owned arms selling agency.

The weapons will be paid for in a "complicated scheme involving striking off part of Algeria's Soviet debt," the source told Interfax, without specifying the period over which the arms would be delivered.

In addition to the upcoming contracts, Algeria may buy up to 50 Yak-130 combat trainer planes and about 30 Tunguska-M1 air defense systems, the source said.

"If signed, it will be the largest arms deal for post-Soviet Russia; it will be grandiose," said Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a Moscow-based defense think tank.

The last deal of similar magnitude was signed with India in 2000 for licensed production of 140 Su-30MKIs and was worth $3.3 billion, Makiyenko said.

For the last few years, Russia, the world's largest arms exporter after the United States, has been selling in excess of $5 billion worth of arms annually. The deal with Algeria is very timely as Russia's prime clients -- China and India -- are increasingly looking to diversify their arms suppliers and their markets are gradually becoming saturated, analysts said.

"Algeria was Russia's traditional arms client in Soviet times, but after the breakup it switched to Ukraine and Belarus mainly, buying Su-27s and MiG-29s. This contract will be Russia's triumphant return to North Africa," said Ruslan Pukhov, editor of Moscow Defense Brief magazine.

"In the coming years, Algeria will account for 20 percent of Russian's arms exports, while China and India will plummet from 70 percent to 50 percent," Pukhov said.



A fake pic of an Algerian Su-30...
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=85531

[hurdy]

Russians are the best when it comes to dogfights because of their highly manvourable jets
And Americans are the best when it comes to BVR combat, they don't care about being good if they have a Jet (F-22) that can take out any other fighter out there without even seeing it.

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

Israel has only had Arab opponents who were not exactly a good airforce. Even with decades of help from America the Saudi airforce is still not very good, so you can imagine the quality of the Arab air force since 1947.

Israel lost the last (and may well be the last in history) real dogfight battle to Egypt. Egyptians used slightly inferior Fishbeds against F-4s and Skyhawks. This source is one of the most credible:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_266.shtml
Israel wiped the floor with Syrian Floggers and Fishbeds using Eagles and Vipers. I am not detracting Israeli pilots, whom I described as outstanding, but the F-15/16s were of different generation.
Believe me, even if Saudi pilots are foaming idiots, not a single sane country expects to face 70+ F-15 C/D/Ss armed with AMRAAMs and Sidewinders and orchasterated by AWACSs without considerable losses. I have no idea why you assumed they aren't very good.

[MSS'S]

While I know that its comparing the Romancing the Stone movie Juan's "Little Mule" Pepe
with a Porsche 917/30(which happens to be my favorite race car btw), Anyhoot.....ALLAHUAKBAR!!!!!!! http://users.accesscomm.ca/magnusfamily/82lebsyr.htm

[MiG 31]

Iran and Israel are best in terms of skilled pilots but IRIAF still needs more fighters by the quantitity, this is why we need to rush up our program of re-engineering F-14 and making Shafaq A.S.A.P.

[LP_IRIAF]

Iran and Israel are best in terms of skilled pilots but IRIAF still needs more fighters by the quantitity, this is why we need to rush up our program of re-engineering F-14 and making Shafaq A.S.A.P.
First of all , thanks ISSA jan , my honour to be here...
Dear MIG-31 has pointed out the main poin : pilot skill..Israelies are not people from outer-space ! The reasons of them being good ; choosing the best out of many ,having practices alot, as much as they can..Also study about what they are flying which is the most important part when you go to a war , because you got to know your horses abilities well which most of Arabians don't care that much(i've seen them how careless they are about it)...Then goes the obligation , the MUST of fight to death with no fear...and of course the supply : Do you have them enough? or will you be able to make them in case of shortages? I guess the point of the topic was : if the ME/AFs involve a war against each other's , not US...Otherwise we know even Israel can't handle it if against US , because Americans have the huge supplies and good knowledges of their horses and money to support the war..The kind of Government and even economy don't count that much if the nation's willing is defending the invasion under any circumstances..Bear in mind that the sanctions sometimes make you more stronger and force you to rely on your own abilities , not others..
Have i gone off the topic too ?! Sorry..

[4X-IL]

First of all , thanks ISSA jan , my honour to be here...
Dear MIG-31 has pointed out the main poin : pilot skill..Israelies are not people from outer-space ! The reasons of them being good ; choosing the best out of many ,having practices alot, as much as they can..Also study about what they are flying which is the most important part when you go to a war , because you got to know your horses abilities well which most of Arabians don't care that much(i've seen them how careless they are about it)...Then goes the obligation , the MUST of fight to death with no fear...and of course the supply : Do you have them enough? or will you be able to make them in case of shortages? I guess the point of the topic was : if the ME/AFs involve a war against each other's , not US...Otherwise we know even Israel can't handle it if against US , because Americans have the huge supplies and good knowledges of their horses and money to support the war..The kind of Government and even economy don't count that much if the nation's willing is defending the invasion under any circumstances..Bear in mind that the sanctions sometimes make you more stronger and force you to rely on your own abilities , not others..
Have i gone off the topic too ?! Sorry..


well you stated a good point,
i'll add another thing to why israeli pilots are good,
look at israel, 420km + - from top north to top south, with less than 100km wide in most of the places ( the farther is 120km + - from the end of the Dead sea to Gaza ) and this is all of course if you count the West Bank.

The israeli pilots know Israel like no other pilot in the world know his country, a dogfight between israeli pilots in the South will not matter which aircraft the enemy is flying, it have no chance againts the israeli pilots which know each and evrey " hiding " place and places to " surprise the enemy from, a good example for that is an exercise video i have between F-18 and Mig 29 which in the end the the Mig 29 is behind the F-18 and than he put full throttle, and literally jump over a mountain, go down, getting away from the other side of it, and hopsalllah, behind the Mig, AMAZING VIDEO! ( uploading now, will add it later )

and my point is, that those things are doable, and israeli pilots know each and evrey place like this, and no one have a chance againts them over israeli territory \ south lebanon.

i live 7km from Ramat david air force base and i see F-16D train each and evrey day, and specially in the winter then there's a big cloud over the valley ( Emek Izrael ) they train under the could in dogfights and this is just incredibble, and you really get to see how skills those pilots are really are.



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[4X-IL]

here's the video

i do think its a fabricated video, but its still demonstrate what you can do when you know the place.

amazing video, very recommended.

http://rapidshare.de/files/14016496/Mig29-vs-F18.avi.html

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

because you got to know your horses abilities well which most of Arabians don't care that much(i've seen them how careless they are about it)..
I know it is a metaphor, but your using 'horses' referring to 'fighter jets' tells much about the technologies utilized in the Iraq-Iran war :) Yeah, Arabians don't care much about their 'planes' abilities because they are raving self-soiling dust-eating imbecile inept fcuken fcuks. They buy multi-million two-seater fighter jets to fly over clouds and then blow-job each others to see the effect of 'low gravity' on sperm production.
I hope Shafaq is a good horse because it bodes.

[Sarge]

I did not read all the replys, nor am I going to rate Middle-eastern air-forces, but I will say this.

Currently, in the Middle East, there is no country which can challenge Israel’s Air-force. Both technologically, and simply by skill. I have no indication that Saudi Arabia, or UAE, pilot crews know what they are doing. In fact I don’t even know of any records, or videos of the matter however I will say this. As strict fact about the IAF



During the Cold War the Soviet Union held close relationships with the Arab nations - On July 30, 1970 the tension peaked: A large scale air brawl between IAF planes and MiGs flown by Soviet pilots occurred- 5 MiGs flown by Soviet pilots were shot down, while the IAF suffered no losses.

June 8, 1982 - Operation Peace for Galilee: The destruction of the entire Soviet-Syrian air-defence system in Lebanon within few hours without a single warplane lost; Syria with the U.S.S.R built up an overlapping network of surface-to-air missiles, and the density of SAM site locations was unmatched anywhere in the world including the U.S.S.R. itself. Also the IAF achieved in dogfights a total of 80 Syrian planes shoot-downs, without a single Israeli plane being shot down.

The only documented successful emergency landing of an F-15 with one wing, the other torn off after an airborne collision with an A-4 Skyhawk. The Skyhawk exploded and its pilot ejected. McDonnell-Douglas, the F-15 Manufacturer, refused to believe it was possible until photos of the incident were shown. The F-15 was restored to flight status

"Ace" pilots: 39 IAF pilots shot down at least 5 jet planes, 10 out of them shot down at least 8 jet planes.

Ace of Aces": Major General Giora Epstein shot down 17 (seventeen) jet planes, holding the world record of jets shot down.

126 enemy planes were shot down in dogfights in the years between the wars - most of them in the 70`s. The IAF lost only 2 planes in dogfights between the wars, in 1959 and in 1964.



The following is a report that reveals some of the skills of the IAF pilots:

"Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two countries, an Israeli military official said Monday. The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar margins, the officials added. Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing its own locally made systems into the aircraft. The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of Sardinia in Italy."

According to the IAF website:

687 enemy airplanes have been shot down in dogfights since Israel`s birth. Only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down by enemy planes since 1948 - a statistic which puts the dogfight victory ratio between Israel and its Arab neighbors at a whopping 30:1.

The IAF is holding world records at the amounts of enemy's warplanes shoot-downs, air combats, special operations, and air to ground operations at the jet era.




I dont know about you, but any pilot that can fly a F-15 with one wing, scores pretty damn high in my book. Also lets not forget, IAF installs its own systems on their planes, which they dont share.

[LP_IRIAF]

I know it is a metaphor, but your using 'horses' referring to 'fighter jets' tells much about the technologies utilized in the Iraq-Iran war :) Yeah, Arabians don't care much about their 'planes' abilities because they are raving self-soiling dust-eating imbecile inept fcuken fcuks. They buy multi-million two-seater fighter jets to fly over clouds and then blow-job each others to see the effect of 'low gravity' on sperm production.
I hope Shafaq is a good horse because it bodes.
Dear EP , i hope i have not hurt your feeling by saying that Arabians don't care about their fighter jets abilities by not studing enough about them......I've been in the same class of training with some Cadets from Saudi , Kuwait,Jordan,...But never been with anyone from Egypt..So i don't know about them...But the ones i've been with ; no good points..I've seen many who been washed-out from the course , went back home , came back later to star another course !(especailly from Saudi ). Which in pilot training rules say : When someone is not able to fly or not willing to study hard , must not enroll again..How did they do it ? Don't ask me...I guess US would care about getting more money than delivering good pilots to the allied..! While i know IAF has the most washed-out cadets rate from the course in the world too(as it's the hardest one) , but no double course for one !...

[user0000]

@Sarge
IRIAF does the same, and she is faced with arms embargo!

[hammerfast]

@Sarge
IRIAF does the same, and she is faced with arms embargo!

oh , so air forces are female too ?

[LP_IRIAF]

oh , so air forces are female too ?LOL ! Yes and that's why men love to join them !!

[attitude]

Israeli pilots are not the unbeatable and the best in the middle east. It all comes down to training. Before the first gulf war, Iraqi Mirage F-1 pilots were considered the elite. They were trained in france. Many pilots that washed out of the french training were accepted for training on Russian planes which shows the Mirage pilots were something special. But in the end it all comes down to who flies the better plane and has better tactics. Dont forget the USS Stark was hit by exocet missles fired by Iraqi Mirage F-1 during the Iran Iraq war in 1987.
Turkey could definetely give Israel a good battle. Turkey has over 200 plus F-16's
Greece has a very large airforce as well.
Italy doesnt have any effective fighters yet besides the leased F-16's but the Tornado's with Amraam's against Israeli F-15 with Amraam's, who ever shoots first would win. Tornado's radar is impressive.
France isnt to far away from Israel either and i have to say France would beat the Israeli airforce in a few days. The french airforce is to powerful and Mirage 2000 is definetely more than a match for the eagle and the Rafale would defeat the F-15 very easily.
Israel does have countries in the region that are definetely capable of defeating their airforce.
I seriously doubt Israel would find itself battling these countries.
What does everyone think

[LP_IRIAF]

I don't know about those countries you've mentioned , but i know the Turkish one ; not a hard hammer as i can recall in IIAF era ; don't know how it is now..(i'm talking about pilot skill not jets)..About IAF , bear in mind that the one which anticipated in different wars and always on pratice and alert in peace time, has more ability to act fast ; that's the main point of the war..

[Iceman1987]

I dont know about you, but any pilot that can fly a F-15 with one wing, scores pretty damn high in my book. Also lets not forget, IAF installs its own systems on their planes, which they dont share.

Yes and rambo killed a whole Sovjet Army. Took out Hinds with Arrows and that kind. Flying with one wing, gimme a break. You wathc to much televison.

[isr agent]

Iceman, that story is totally true, it is recorded in the IAF web site and on wikipedia:
"The only documented successful emergency landing of an F-15 with one wing, the other torn off after an airborne collision with an A-4 Skyhawk. The Skyhawk exploded and its pilot ejected. McDonnell-Douglas, the F-15 Manufacturer, refused to believe it was possible until photos of the incident were shown. The F-15 was restored to flight status. "
IAF:
"May 1st 1983
An F-15 and a Skyhawk collide in the course of a training flight. The Skyhawk pilot bails out, while the F-15 pilot manages to land his plane without its right wing. "
http://www.iaf.org.il/sip_storage/files/1/1861.jpg
http://www.uss-bennington.org/pics/phz-nowing-f15.jpg
The pilot didnt knew his air craft is missing a wing, he only thought it is damaged, he managed to land and then saw theres no wing.
Heres the story in english- http://www.uss-bennington.org/phz-nowing-f15.html

[Pure_sunni]

Yes and rambo killed a whole Sovjet Army. Took out Hinds with Arrows and that kind. Flying with one wing, gimme a break. You wathc to much televison.


LOOOOOL :p

[Sarge]

Yes and rambo killed a whole Sovjet Army. Took out Hinds with Arrows and that kind. Flying with one wing, gimme a break. You wathc to much televison.
You may learn over time, that everything i post here is true or fact. Unless its my own opinion, which in that case i let people know.

So wait... maybe rambo did kill a whole soviet army (not sovjet:eek: ).

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

Dear EP , i hope i have not hurt your feeling by saying that Arabians don't care about their fighter jets abilities by not studing enough about them......I've been in the same class of training with some Cadets from Saudi , Kuwait,Jordan,...But never been with anyone from Egypt..So i don't know about them...But the ones i've been with ; no good points..I've seen many who been washed-out from the course , went back home , came back later to star another course !(especailly from Saudi ). Which in pilot training rules say : When someone is not able to fly or not willing to study hard , must not enroll again..How did they do it ? Don't ask me...I guess US would care about getting more money than delivering good pilots to the allied..! While i know IAF has the most washed-out cadets rate from the course in the world too(as it's the hardest one) , but no double course for one !...
You earned my respect by your professional reply. Yeah, if they are that incompetent, they don't deserve my defence. BTW, I don't associate myself much with the Gulf countries. Saudi Arabia has 5 million + foreign workers and 25% domestic unemployment. This in plain English means, they DO NOT want to work.
I can't judge Egy pilors because we are in peace since 79, but I always quote this air battle www.acig.org/artman/publish/printer_266.shtml
BTW, I am keen about your comments regarding this battle. It's one of the few ones when Israeli pilots fought a massive dogfight against slightly inferior brand of fighters.

[Sarge]

You earned my respect by your professional reply. Yeah, if they are that incompetent, they don't deserve my defence. BTW, I don't associate myself much with the Gulf countries. Saudi Arabia has 5 million + foreign workers and 25% domestic unemployment. This in plain English means, they DO NOT want to work.
I can't judge Egy pilors because we are in peace since 79, but I always quote this air battle www.acig.org/artman/publish/printer_266.shtml
BTW, I am keen about your comments regarding this battle. It's one of the few ones when Israeli pilots fought a massive dogfight against slightly inferior brand of fighters.

DO not! ever use http://www.acig.org/ as a source of information.. It has been discredited by so many people, so many times. It most of the time gives a untrue estimate, and foolish lies. This was proven when their Shab-3b article proved to be a complete fraud and lie. I have no idea where these people get their information, but it sucks.

But I will let you in on a little secret Egyptian Pharaoh, something that I bet many of our anti-Israel friends here in the forums would love to copy and paste, since I wrote it.

During the Yom-Kippur war the entire Military structure of command in the IDF fell apart for a few days. Seriously. Their was chaos in the entire upper IDF command. It was ridicules the amount of mistakes made. Mostly because of incorrect intelligence about Israel own tanks and units, and the enemies..

Their were times when IDF southern command did not even know a exact number of tanks have been left after each engagement. Simply put it was bad. However, after a few days the IDF got a hand of itself and defeated the enemy, badly again. The reason this all happened in the first place was because of ego. After the six-day war Israelis simply became ignorant and stupid. They thought “no one would attack us, we are Israel, we kicked your ass four times in a row.

Well it was a lesson which was learned with the price of brave pilots which simply went into enemy territory, without a mission or point, and were shot down by enemy SAM missiles. This in truth was the largest cause of downed pilots. Many IDF soldiers died because of this lesson.

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

It seems many people are using ACIG.
http://www.irandefence.net/showpost.php?p=15084&postcount=27
http://www.irandefence.net/showpost.php?p=16168&postcount=31
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-188-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-90.html
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/archive/index.php/t-1053.html
See this source about the battle http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/050426/2005042635.html
I searched the whole net about anything called Shab-3b to no avail. Battle of Mansoura, regardless of the details, is an EAF victory. IAF completely failed to strike in depth after dodging the SAMs. Not a single Egyptian city was bombed nor a single airport was permanently damaged.
BTW, I am NOT anti-Israel, I do respect IAF/DF and have a close Israeli friend. I am just speaking for my country.

[Sarge]

Search Discredit of the same website. Seriously it is junk.

Also i wouldnt trust the people in this site with fact and information. Some of them still think the Holocaust was one big lie, and the Zionists are trying to take over the world. The amount of junk here is staggering, however I believe for Yom-kipper it’s the outcome which counts. I have read countless books on the subject so I am inform with what happened. However the end of the war was positive for both sides, the Egyptians won back some of their lost pride, and Israel beat a invading force once more.

[Highsky]

Also i wouldnt trust the people in this site with fact and information. Some of them still think the Holocaust was one big lie, and the Zionists are trying to take over the world.

Nobody said Holocaust is lie but we believe zionism used that subject to hide their crime it means what Israel did and do and will doing is another Holocaust . and we believe those dirty poeple or dirty nation or beyyer said dirty regime whiches made Holocaust has to pay the price and not the poor palestinian poeple.
have you ever read the ideology of zionism? if not try to find some books and inform yourself before you give i comments about.

GooD Luck
and if you think here is an abnormal forum with somany lies you can join another forum and read and enjoy what you want to hear.

[Sarge]

Nobody said Holocaust is lie but we believe zionism used that subject to hide their crime it means what Israel did and do and will doing is another Holocaust . and we believe those dirty poeple or dirty nation or beyyer said dirty regime whiches made Holocaust has to pay the price and not the poor palestinian poeple.
have you ever read the ideology of zionism? if not try to find some books and inform yourself before you give i comments about.

GooD Luck
Was i speaking to you? Hit your little button mr.sky, i could care less what you think. However I don’t see how in the world your beliefs, have anything to do with what i said. I could couldn’t care any less, and i couldn’t care anymore. As i was saying "The amount of junk here is staggering", and if you claim no one here said the Holocaust wasn’t true, well then you need to recheck that theory. Since their were, and are more then a few posts trying to claim it as so. Which again I couldn’t care less.
.

have you ever read the ideology of zionism?

I most likely more know about Zionism then you, however not to get ego to involved, this is irrelevant to the fact. I was depicting the forum with the true nature of its posters. I did not wish to start a pointless dumb conversation about Zionism a movement which practically draws no interest or attention from me. Nor do I wish to speak of the Holocaust which has drawn enough attention.

nd if you think here is an abnormal forum with somany lies you can join another forum and read and enjoy what you want to hear.
Mr.sky you must have misread my text buddy. If I were to take seriously ever poster, every word, or anything said in this forum, and get angry, or maybe disgusted. Well then I would have a serious issue, but since I don’t, it does not concern me. If you noticed i have been around here for a while, i tend to only reply to topics of substance for the most part. The rest of the forum i ignore. However, i will not lie sometimes i feel the needs to have you read more then necessary, as I am doing right this minute. You may continue to read my words, and paragraphs.

and we believe those dirty poeple or dirty nation or beyyer said dirty regime whiches made Holocaust has to pay the price and not the poor palestinian poeple.
I will use this as a great prime example, I was writing about examples of posts inside the forum, I did not express my concern to Israel, Iran, Zionsim, etc. Yet you turned my entire reply around by somehow relating it to Israel, and the poor misfortunate Palestinian people. Well I guess this proves the point. And of course the fake friendly gesture to you Mr.Skyhigh, Good Luck.

[MSS'S]

Iceman, that story is totally true, it is recorded in the IAF web site and on wikipedia:
"The only documented successful emergency landing of an F-15 with one wing, the other torn off after an airborne collision with an A-4 Skyhawk. The Skyhawk exploded and its pilot ejected. McDonnell-Douglas, the F-15 Manufacturer, refused to believe it was possible until photos of the incident were shown. The F-15 was restored to flight status. "
IAF:
"May 1st 1983
An F-15 and a Skyhawk collide in the course of a training flight. The Skyhawk pilot bails out, while the F-15 pilot manages to land his plane without its right wing. "
http://www.iaf.org.il/sip_storage/files/1/1861.jpg
http://www.uss-bennington.org/pics/phz-nowing-f15.jpg
The pilot didnt knew his air craft is missing a wing, he only thought it is damaged, he managed to land and then saw theres no wing.
Heres the story in english- http://www.uss-bennington.org/phz-nowing-f15.html
Yes that is possible. The F-15 Eagle has superior Avionics and flight control.
You notice in the pic, the complete wing is not missing, as if it were it would be impossible to keep in the air. There is enough of the wing there to generate enough lift to keep it in sustained airborne flight with slow arial descent. I won the best Sci Fair project in Jr. High 4 straight years in a row, and the last three delt with aerodynamic drag and lift, not to pat myself on the back though!
I'm supposed to be of the Muttaqun.

[Highsky]

Was i speaking to you? Hit your little button mr.sky, i could care less what you think. However I don’t see how in the world your beliefs, have anything to do with what i said. I could couldn’t care any less, and i couldn’t care anymore. As i was saying "The amount of junk here is staggering", and if you claim no one here said the Holocaust wasn’t true, well then you need to recheck that theory. Since their were, and are more then a few posts trying to claim it as so. Which again I couldn’t care less.

You are right i m so sorry for myself to discuss with poeple like you . Luck Good Mr Sarge

[uppal340]

Pakistan having best fighter pilots in the world even united states and israel agrees.

[LP_IRIAF]

You earned my respect by your professional reply. Yeah, if they are that incompetent, they don't deserve my defence. BTW, I don't associate myself much with the Gulf countries. Saudi Arabia has 5 million + foreign workers and 25% domestic unemployment. This in plain English means, they DO NOT want to work.
I can't judge Egy pilors because we are in peace since 79, but I always quote this air battle www.acig.org/artman/publish/printer_266.shtml
BTW, I am keen about your comments regarding this battle. It's one of the few ones when Israeli pilots fought a massive dogfight against slightly inferior brand of fighters.I've read it before and that's because they had the motivation for the victory and were ready to give the lives to gain it,although in short time ; but they did it..

[uppal340]

1)Saudia
2)Pakistan(due to lack of technology)
3)egypt
4)iran
5)syria
6)jordan
7)uae
8)oman
9)iraq
10)israel(hahahahah)...............,At last

[4X-IL]

1)Saudia
2)Pakistan(due to lack of technology)
3)egypt
4)iran
5)syria
6)jordan
7)uae
8)oman
9)iraq
10)israel(hahahahah)...............,At last


ROFL

damn i'm on the floor

[isr agent]

lol a person gotta have a dream...:rolleyes:

[Snauhi]

Nah, just look at hes posts...

[Yoni45]

1)Saudia
2)Pakistan(due to lack of technology)
3)egypt
4)iran
5)syria
6)jordan
7)uae
8)oman
9)iraq
10)israel(hahahahah)...............,At last

I find it odd that #10 can likely take on #1-9 combined :rolleyes:

[4X-IL]

I find it odd that #10 can likely take on #1-9 combined :rolleyes:


certainly.

[Sarge]

Yoni and 4X-IL try to keep your ego in check just a little, makes you look somewhat foolish

[4X-IL]

Yoni and 4X-IL try to keep your ego in check just a little, makes you look somewhat foolish

you should answer seriously to a seriously post.

you can answer stupidly to a stupid post.

[Sarge]

you should answer seriously to a seriously post.

you can answer stupidly to a stupid post.
Or you can answer with your ego, a much better choice for you no?

[4X-IL]

Or you can answer with your ego, a much better choice for you no?


Indeed it is.
My ego jumps to dumb people

[Sarge]

Indeed it is.
My ego jumps to dumb people
The real lesion is to keep your ego to yourself, no matter what, because you are most likely younger then many of our posters. As foolish as many of them are. Most likely we are looking at a large group of 12-18 year old kids.

[4X-IL]

The real lesion is to keep your ego to yourself, no matter what, because you are most likely younger then many of our posters. As foolish as many of them are. Most likely we are looking at a large group of 12-18 year old kids.


well don't know what about you but i'm 18

[isr agent]

Yeah listen to sarge, he is correct most of the time :) and this is a good advice, especialy for the macho israelis :p

[Turk]

If your aircraft is technologically superior to the enemy's, you will always defeat him. What makes the US superior is their "hi-tech" coupled with the number of aircraft they have.

[Yoni45]

Yoni and 4X-IL try to keep your ego in check just a little, makes you look somewhat foolish

My comment may have been pushing the IAF's capability (which, considering the post I was replying to, was much more for humour than for serious discussion), however, I likely wasn't too far off. The only challenge may be the either saudi or UAE block 60 f-16's (I forget which one it was, leaning towards UAE), yet we have the pilots...

As much as my post was more for humour, we could likely carry a serious discussion as to whether the IAF could take on all those other airforces combined :D

(I'm not an air force buff or anything, so I likely wouldn't be the one carrying on this discussion, my information is fairly general...)

[attitude]

I find it odd that #10 can likely take on #1-9 combined :rolleyes:

30 years ago that would be true
Israel could take on 1 to 9 combined
Today no chance
Israel would be defeated
Look at what they would be facing from those countries.
Saudi Arabia with 100 plus F-15c/d/s with E-3 awacs support.
Even if their pilots arent the best they would still definetely be a hard battle
Pakistan has 40 older F-16's and over 150 Mirage 3/5's and the F-7's
Pilots are well trained but they are no match for the Israeli's
Egypt has over 100 F-16's plus many Mirage 2000's as well as F-4's and Mig-21/F-7's
Egypt is definetely not like the Egpyt of old. Their pilots are very well trained and the Mirage 2000's are more than a match for the Israeli F-15's and F-16's
Iran has unfortunately only got the old F-14's of which only about 30 are operational as well as old F-4's and F-5's and some Mig-29's and ex Iraqi Mirage F-1's
Iran's pilots are awesome but against the Israeli airforce they unfortunately wouldnt last a day
Syria has a very large airforce consisting of Mig-21/23/25/27/29's and Su-22/25's. I dont know if Syria has any Flankers. Even though Israel has a superior airforce, Syria would still do some damage today.
Jordan has only about 40 F-16's and wouldnt last a few hours
U.A.E is changing. F-16 block 60's and Mirage 2000's would make life difficult for the Israeli airforce
The F-16 block 60 is on par with Israel's new F-16's
Oman is getting the F-16 but only has Jaguar's at the moment. Oman would be a threat to Israel.
Iraq has nothing now

If israel fought those countries on its own they would probably win every encounter.

If they took on 1 to 9 combined they would be defeated.
There is no way that Israel could repel an attack by those 9 countries if they were combined together
Israel would be hard pressed today defending against just Syria and Egypt if they attacked today because it would require their whole airforce to defend against just those 2 countries.
If Israel had to take on all 9 they would be defeated inside a few days.
Israel's only hope would be american support.

[Yoni45]

30 years ago that would be true
Israel could take on 1 to 9 combined
Today no chance
Israel would be defeated
Look at what they would be facing from those countries.
Saudi Arabia with 100 plus F-15c/d/s with E-3 awacs support.
Even if their pilots arent the best they would still definetely be a hard battle
Pakistan has 40 older F-16's and over 150 Mirage 3/5's and the F-7's
Pilots are well trained but they are no match for the Israeli's
Egypt has over 100 F-16's plus many Mirage 2000's as well as F-4's and Mig-21/F-7's
Egypt is definetely not like the Egpyt of old. Their pilots are very well trained and the Mirage 2000's are more than a match for the Israeli F-15's and F-16's
Iran has unfortunately only got the old F-14's of which only about 30 are operational as well as old F-4's and F-5's and some Mig-29's and ex Iraqi Mirage F-1's
Iran's pilots are awesome but against the Israeli airforce they unfortunately wouldnt last a day
Syria has a very large airforce consisting of Mig-21/23/25/27/29's and Su-22/25's. I dont know if Syria has any Flankers. Even though Israel has a superior airforce, Syria would still do some damage today.
Jordan has only about 40 F-16's and wouldnt last a few hours
U.A.E is changing. F-16 block 60's and Mirage 2000's would make life difficult for the Israeli airforce
The F-16 block 60 is on par with Israel's new F-16's
Oman is getting the F-16 but only has Jaguar's at the moment. Oman would be a threat to Israel.
Iraq has nothing now

If israel fought those countries on its own they would probably win every encounter.

If they took on 1 to 9 combined they would be defeated.
There is no way that Israel could repel an attack by those 9 countries if they were combined together
Israel would be hard pressed today defending against just Syria and Egypt if they attacked today because it would require their whole airforce to defend against just those 2 countries.
If Israel had to take on all 9 they would be defeated inside a few days.
Israel's only hope would be american support.

Alright, so yeah, I may have been pushing it hehe (as I said, I'm not much of an air force buff), I'll go under the assumption that your statements are correct since I have no reason to believe otherwise, but if someone else does... :o

A thought however, when I made my statement, I did not refer to anyone's home turf, so your numbers would likely be correct in that, if it's Israel actually defending itself however (as per your post), I would imagine there's much more that would go into that tally...

[4X-IL]

Alright, so yeah, I may have been pushing it hehe (as I said, I'm not much of an air force buff), I'll go under the assumption that your statements are correct since I have no reason to believe otherwise, but if someone else does... :o

A thought however, when I made my statement, I did not refer to anyone's home turf, so your numbers would likely be correct in that, if it's Israel actually defending itself however (as per your post), I would imagine there's much more that would go into that tally...


in case all those countries attack israel together, israel still wins.
the anti air defence arsenal of israel is huge.
and none of those countries have the abillity to avoid from missiles like we have here.

Python 5 and Derby BVR missiles on " Spider " Trucks are stated all over the country, and no aircraft in the world can avoid Python 5, doesn't matter in with cases.

so here it goes to Yes again.
if all those countries attacks israel, israel still wins.

[attitude]

in case all those countries attack israel together, israel still wins.
the anti air defence arsenal of israel is huge.
and none of those countries have the abillity to avoid from missiles like we have here.

Python 5 and Derby BVR missiles on " Spider " Trucks are stated all over the country, and no aircraft in the world can avoid Python 5, doesn't matter in with cases.

so here it goes to Yes again.
if all those countries attacks israel, israel still wins.

dream on

Israel against the rest of the middle east
they would be wiped out
Face facts
You cant defend against that much firepower.
And the combined armies of the middle east would over run israel inside a week

[4X-IL]

i am facing facts
and i know no Air force of any arab state around here can go threw israel's border and get out alive.

[attitude]

Hezbollah can even fly their drones over Israeli cities unscathed and un challenged
Fact

[4X-IL]

Hezbollah can even fly their drones over Israeli cities unscathed and un challenged
Fact

ROFL

After January 2004 when Hizbollah done it, the defence in the north got upgrade
and we shot down their next UAV they tried to enter.

the north radars can now detect anything, and i saw myself tests of the smalles UAV israel have trying to enter in a secret test that was for testing this system, and the UAV was shut down 12km before the border.
and Hizbollah WISHED they had UAV's that shopisticated like that one, which was 10 times smaller than the Hizbollah UAV.

[attitude]

In the end Israel vs the Middle east
Israel would lose very badly
The combined strength of all their armies and airforces would leave israel in ruins
Fact which is undeniable
And im a 9 year veteran of the Australian army. I guarantee israel would have no chance without america
Israel would have lost Yom Kippur if it wasnt for american airlift of weapons

[4X-IL]

In the end Israel vs the Middle east
Israel would lose very badly
The combined strength of all their armies and airforces would leave israel in ruins
Fact which is undeniable
And im a 9 year veteran of the Australian army. I guarantee israel would have no chance without america
Israel would have lost Yom Kippur if it wasnt for american airlift of weapons


no dude you mixed the things...

we didn't talked about infantry \ artillery \ tanks.
only air forces.

[Iceman1987]

in case all those countries attack israel together, israel still wins.
the anti air defence arsenal of israel is huge.
and none of those countries have the abillity to avoid from missiles like we have here.

Python 5 and Derby BVR missiles on " Spider " Trucks are stated all over the country, and no aircraft in the world can avoid Python 5, doesn't matter in with cases.

so here it goes to Yes again.
if all those countries attacks israel, israel still wins.

Sure. Now I know who wrote the story for all the rambo movies.

@attitude. Syria has flankers. Two squadrons I thought.

[attitude]

no dude you mixed the things...

we didn't talked about infantry \ artillery \ tanks.
only air forces.

No DUDE you are the one who is mixed up
You think the Israeli airforce could take on every other airforce in the middle east at the same time and win. ROFLMAO
No way Israel could hold of the airforces of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, UAE, Iran, Libya, Kuwait, Algeria and who ever else got involved. The sheer numbers would be to over whelming and despite the losses these countries may suffer in any initial attack, it would succeed because Israel doesnt have enough aircraft to defend against this many attackers.
All these countries airforces consisting of late model F-15c/d/s, F-16a/b/c/d/e, F-18/c/d, Mirage 2000's, Upgraded Migs and Sukhoi's. E-3 awacs support.
Israeli airforce would be destroyed in a couple of days with out immediate american intervention.
If it wasnt for America, Israel would have been conquered in 73
I have been lmao at your posts.
Its so funny you actually believe the Israeli airforce could take on all those airforces and win
Dream on DUDE
When you get a bit older and maybe actually do some military service, you might wake up and face reality.
Israel exists today because of American protection.
If Israel suddenly became America's enemy.
The whole of the middle east would invade israel.
Andd then Israel would most likely use its nukes as a last defence.

[isr agent]

Attitude, you are mixing things.
The starting post that started this israel vs 9 others bs stated the follwing 9 countries: saudi, pakistan, egypt, iran, syira, jordan, uae, oman and iraq. He didnt mentioned libya kuwait and algeria.
Out of the countries he posted you can take out iraq and oman that from what i read does'nt oppose a real challange to the IAF.
Now, you have iran with not too good air crafts, pakistan that is pretty far from israel and the fuel and the logistics will take a price you're left with jordan with not so much of an impressive air force, syria, egypt, UAE and saudi arabia, still a challange that i dont think the IAF can handle but none the less if you look deep to the details as i just did you are left with less and less air forces/ air craft to challange the IAF, i think 4X-IL is taking IAF's past succes for granted and think it will be enough against these air forces, maybe in a case like the 6 days war the IAF will have a chance but who knows this scenario will never happen.
And this leads us to the question maybe this scenario WILL happen when we wont have US support? i think the answer lays in your post: "The whole of the middle east would invade israel.
Andd then Israel would most likely use its nukes as a last defence."
the nukes option will be the last defence if theres a real existance danger such as the enemy sitting on our border and as you said the middle east trying to invade israel, can they really handle ~400 nukes? i mean if we make such an extreme scenario of USA and the world leaving israel to fight against the entire middle east that is invading, lets really make it extreme and add the nukes which will bring an armagedon.

But hey, that will never happen so dont even imagine that in your brain it will only make you sad :p smile! :)

[attitude]

You israeli's have nothing better to do than to be specific
I was using countries in the middle east as a point but if it makes you happy ill take out Kuwait and Algeria and guess what Israel still loses.
Their nukes and american support are the only reason israel still exists.
Israel may have 400 plus nukes but can israel handle just 1 nuke being dropped on it.
Likely not.
If israel fired a nuke first, it would start world war 3.
If they got hit by a nuke they would have american support but the damage would have already been done.
Pakistan doesnt have to launch their fighters from Pakistan. They could launch from i dont know maybe Saudi Arabia
Pakistan could send nukes to Egypt, Syria and stick them on missles or drop them from planes or just fire them from artillery.
Of course it would be armaggeddon if any nukes are dropped in any future war. Any understands that but the Israeli's would be fools anyway and use them and bring armaggeddon to the world if that scenario happened.
Maybe in your Brain you might understand that, or maybe not so be sad :( or smile :)

[isr agent]

Israel may have 400 plus nukes but can israel handle just 1 nuke being dropped on it.
Likely not.
Dropped by who?
If israel fired a nuke first, it would start world war 3.
If israel will fire the nuke that means the enemy is in the borders, if the enemy is the entire middle east as you said then world war 3 started in the moment they called it on israel...
Pakistan could send nukes to Egypt, Syria and stick them on missles or drop them from planes or just fire them from artillery.
Israel will not allow it, we will attack the nuclear installations by any mean. Anyway a transfering of nuclear warheads does'nt "just happens" it takes time and logistics that any intellegence service can track.
Of course it would be armaggeddon if any nukes are dropped in any future war. Any understands that but the Israeli's would be fools anyway and use them and bring armaggeddon to the world if that scenario happened.
You dont seem to get it, israel will use nukes when theres a danger for its existance, when theres a danger of existance THAT IS already armaggedon for us which means nothing will stop us from using the doom weapon.

[knight]

... Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, UAE, Iran, Libya, Kuwait, Algeria and who ever else got involved. The sheer numbers would be to over whelming and despite the losses these countries may suffer in any initial attack, it would succeed because Israel doesnt have enough aircraft to defend against this many attackers.
All these countries airforces consisting of late model F-15c/d/s, F-16a/b/c/d/e, F-18/c/d, Mirage 2000's, Upgraded Migs and Sukhoi's. E-3 awacs support.
Israeli airforce would be destroyed in a couple of days with out immediate american intervention.
If it wasnt for America, Israel would have been conquered in 73
I have been lmao at your posts.
Its so funny you actually believe the Israeli airforce could take on all those airforces and win
Dream on DUDE
When you get a bit older and maybe actually do some military service, you might wake up and face reality.
Israel exists today because of American protection.
If Israel suddenly became America's enemy.
The whole of the middle east would invade israel.
Andd then Israel would most likely use its nukes as a last defence.

hey DUDE where is my car?

gday mate, thank you so much for thinking so highly of Israel IDF, to think that in order to make a benchmark of Israel vs an arab country you had to use 11 (!!!!!) other countries, WOW. if ATI new screen card was to be compared to 11 Nvidia screen cards i think ill go with the ATI one.

dude.

[isr agent]

lol knight what a brilliant analyze :)

[4X-IL]

and again, attitude, you looking on the scenario as it was 1 aircraft vs 1 aircraft with the numbers.
but you forget the ground to air defence, which no one got better than israel.

No aircraft in the world can sneak into israel after Spider truck fired a Python 5 at him, NO airplane which exist right now ( not in the US RU EU and not in the middle east for sure ) , atlist in 99% of the cases.


And i can honestly say without any further details that if the Python 5 range is 25km, there's no meter of border in this country which is not under guard of spider trucks, Derby BVR as the first, Python as the second resource.

[attitude]

A Mig-25 on full throttle at over Mach 3 can outrun any missle fired at it
Over the last 10 years the Americans couldnt even shoot any down during the policing of the no fly zones.
Amraam's were fired at them with no success
They even fired a Phoenix in one encounter and still no Mig-25 shot down.
The Python 5 is an untested system in war
The arrow is untested in war
I would place more faith in the Patriot missle's than the Arrow or Python 5
Patriot is tried and tested in war.
The scenario i was thinking of involved more than 1 aircraft vs 1 aircraft
1 on 1 Israel would probably win every battle
The opposing airforce's would need sheer quality and quantity of aircraft to fill the skies to win.

[Tbagger]

Some people here are seriously overrating the Israeli Air Force; they have excellent pilots, but just because they beat some ill trained Arabs doesn't mean they are the best. Had the IAF tried something like Operation Linebacker 1 or 2, they would have been blasted out of the sky.

[attitude]

hey DUDE where is my car?

gday mate, thank you so much for thinking so highly of Israel IDF, to think that in order to make a benchmark of Israel vs an arab country you had to use 11 (!!!!!) other countries, WOW. if ATI new screen card was to be compared to 11 Nvidia screen cards i think ill go with the ATI one.

dude.

Your car is at the wreckers DUDE

If you want me to use one country vs Israel
okay
no country in the middle east could do it alone against Israeloi airforce.
But if somehow Israel and France became enemies and went to war.
God help Israel
French airforce vs Israeli airforce
The French would win
If it was Israeli airforce vs the British airforce
Israel would win
France is the most powerful country in the region
Their Mirage 2000's and Rafale's totally outclass the Israeli F-15's and F-16's

[Tbagger]

Does France even have the projection capabilities to launch air strikes against Israel? A realistic situation would be French and Israeli jets taking off from air bases and running out of fuel somewhere in the Mediterranean with their pilots bailing out. The French would then immediately swim to the Israelis and surrender. :D

[attitude]

Does France even have the projection capabilities to launch air strikes against Israel? A realistic situation would be French and Israeli jets taking off from air bases and running out of fuel somewhere in the Mediterranean with their pilots bailing out. The French would then immediately swim to the Israelis and surrender. :D
Dream on
The French can strike israel no worries and return to base

Mirage 2000n has a huge range and France have many aireal tankers

Israeli's would be fighting them over the skies of Telaviv

France can strike any where in Israel from their Home bases

Israeli pilots would either drown in the Med or eject over land

ROFL French would swim to Israeli's and surrender LOL

America would still be a British colony if it wasn't for the French

[hammerfast]

+ france has that carrier israel doesnt have any

[Tbagger]

Dream on
The French can strike israel no worries and return to base

Mirage 2000n has a huge range and France have many aireal tankers

Israeli's would be fighting them over the skies of Telaviv

France can strike any where in Israel from their Home bases

Israeli pilots would either drown in the Med or eject over land

ROFL French would swim to Israeli's and surrender LOL

America would still be a British colony if it wasn't for the French

Calm down dude, I was being sarcastic.

[Benzeen]

yes Isreal is first! yes yes feel proud...

But I dont see Arabs countries that cant even fly thier own planes in the top spots.. Iran has skill but bad planes. non the less Iran has heavly upgraded f-14's and heavliy upgraded mig-29's which do help.

Saudi Arabia and UAE dont even fly their own planes..... how can they be one of the top? UAE Already crashed a 6 month old F-16 block 60! What a shame tehy have it!

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

I want to ask a small question. Why don't UAE and Saudi fly their jets? It is such a wonderful and unique job being a pilot. In Egypt, the air force admission examinations are hard and they focus on rare skills like reaction time and keen eye sight etc. It seems daunting but hell thousands of high school students apply and they reject something like 95% - BTW I was rejected. Why? because it is an amaaazzzing career. I can't understand the mentality of UAE and Saudis or may be they just don't give sh*t.

[Benzeen]

Yes it boggles me! Most of UAe army is pakistani. American pilots and trainers. The have a few Arab pilots but he tried too hard and crashed block 60!!! omfg if only Iran had such power in its grasp!!

[hammerfast]

iran could if it was another american puppet like uae and saudi but agian dont forget the big picture

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

iran could if it was another american puppet like uae and saudi but agian dont forget the big picture
F-16 crashes happen everywhere (http://www.f-16.net/news_topic152.html). The problem is not in the crash, the problem is in trusting foreign pilots flying your billions worth air fleet. UAE is to acquire 80 F-16C/D block f u c k e n 60 which is more advanced than the US version. This is ridiculously advanced fleet for a country like UAE. Saudis are on the lam fashioning the strongest AF in the ME. They have 70+ F-15s and are gonna prop them with 100+ Typhoons. They already have AMRAAMs and Sidewinders and E-3 AWACS. Hell even the US fear such an air force in the hands of average pilots.

[Benzeen]

f-16I is block 52 so block 60 is not c/d. but any way you are rite! trust other to fly for you and fight for you!

Aobut the crash! Bro they had these F-16's for 6 MONTHS! They are still shinning, still has the new plane smeel in tis cockpit! THese guy crash more planes than what Iran lost in the 8 year war!

[hammerfast]

so?? why was that a response to my post?

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

f-16I is block 52 so block 60 is not c/d. but any way you are rite! trust other to fly for you and fight for you!

Aobut the crash! Bro they had these F-16's for 6 MONTHS! They are still shinning, still has the new plane smeel in tis cockpit! THese guy crash more planes than what Iran lost in the 8 year war!
You're right. F-16 E/F are block 60. If they crash many F-16s, although I can't find it on f-16.net, this tells of the quality of the mercenaries flying them. I hope they run outa oil to realize how real men live and fight.

@hammerfast You're right. Pahlavi got F-14s and was about to acquire F-16s making Iran the strongest AF in ME. The mullahs aren't puppets nor saints. It's sad to watch country like Iran flying junk while Ethiopia and Eritria has Su-27s and Mig-29s. The best solution for Iran was Mossadegh, but it's long past.

[hammerfast]

The best solution for Iran was Mossadegh
say it to the yanks

[4X-IL]

F-16 crashes happen everywhere (http://www.f-16.net/news_topic152.html). The problem is not in the crash, the problem is in trusting foreign pilots flying your billions worth air fleet. UAE is to acquire 80 F-16C/D block f u c k e n 60 which is more advanced than the US version. This is ridiculously advanced fleet for a country like UAE. Saudis are on the lam fashioning the strongest AF in the ME. They have 70+ F-15s and are gonna prop them with 100+ Typhoons. They already have AMRAAMs and Sidewinders and E-3 AWACS. Hell even the US fear such an air force in the hands of average pilots.



the Israeli F-16I have better avionics than the F16E\F.

Israel INVENTED the extended fuel tanks on the new F-16 version, and the israeli F-16I systems are all israelis, and in that case i can say without blinking, all israeli F-16I systems are better than the american systems on the new F-16.

Israel will have in 2008, 102 F-16I.
Israel already operated more than 100 F-15C\D and couple dozens more of A\B.
and a total of 386 F-16.

the UAE version of F-15 is DOWNGRADED.
it is LESS good from the C\D version, which is those version downgrade.
most of them doesn't have the lantir pods and more lots of importnt stuff.

plus israel of course have 25 F-15I which is better than any USAF F-15 ever had, and UAÉ's F-15 WISHED they were half of it.


plus 170 F-4E's upgraded with all digitals systems and weaponry to Kurnes 2000, and couple dozene more of A-4, all of them, both F-4 and A-4 reserved for imergency.

UAE ordered 48 EuroFighters, they said they have the POSSIBILTY to take 78, TOP.

in any case UAE doesn't stand a chance againts the IAF.

[Tbagger]

uhhhh, last time I checked, the UAE does not posses any F-15's. And the title for the best F-15 goes to the Korean F-15K and Singapore's F-15SG.

[4X-IL]

sorry i meant Saudi Arabia

[Egyptian Pharaoh]

the Israeli F-16I have better avionics than the F16E\F.

Evidence?

all israeli F-16I systems are better than the american systems on the new F-16.
'Better' is much stronger than 'equivilant'. Evidence?

the UAE version of F-15 is DOWNGRADED.
it is LESS good from the C\D version,
They don't have nor going to buy F-15s. Where do you get your info?

plus israel of course have 25 F-15I which is better than any USAF F-15 ever had, and UAÉ's F-15 WISHED they were half of it.
Evidence? My humble knowledge is that F-15I has extende range than the F-15E Striking Eagle. But there is no revolutionary difference in avionics.

plus 170 F-4E's upgraded with all digitals systems and weaponry to Kurnes 2000, and couple dozene more of A-4, all of them, both F-4 and A-4 reserved for imergency.
Forget about the third generation fighters. IAF/DF backbone is F-16 (C/D/I), period.

However, I don't expect UAE alone should have an air force comparable to Israel. Only because they don't face any apparent threats. F-16 60+AMRAAM can sodomize any F-14/F-4/old Mig29 Iran has, assuming that UAE will be attacked by Iran. However, the combined AF of the Gulf arabs is at least respectable. Also the pilots are american :)

[Tbagger]

From what I've read, the UAE is in the realm of purchasing F-15's to further enhance their air force's capabilities.

[isr agent]

I heard that saudi's pilots (not foreign ones) are all if not most of made from royal families only...

[4X-IL]

Egyptian Pharaoh

I meant Saudi arabia not UAE... i always confuse between them.

The F16I systems are better from the american ones because without any details - costs 2 times more.
does the F-16 Block 52 supposed to cost 45 million dollars? i doubt.
It is known here that our systems are better, we wouldn't bother to install them if it wasn't.

the F-15I systems are totally different from the americans.
the Air to Ground abillity of the F-15I are couple of levels better, and with more options, than the regular F-15E.

The F-15E was added with the abillity to attack ground, but its primary target is still the Air, and israel added much more serious systems for the ground.

+ the F-15I have a range if i remember correcly 2 times more than the F-15E.

[Tbagger]

I heard that saudi's pilots (not foreign ones) are all if not most of made from royal families only...
Yeah, you practically have to be a prince to fly jets in the Saudi Air Force.

[4X-IL]

and its definetly say something about the quality of their airforce.

one of the reasons the IAF pilots considered as one of the best is because they beeing chosed from many many many people.
the ratio of beeing an F-15I \ F16I pilot in israel is about 1:1000,
and that hard filtering proving itself in the quality of our pilots.

[isr agent]

Now, people say that without uncle sam's help the IDF/ IAF would'nt last, FYI israel produced in the past an air craft that was one of the best for the time, the lavi. We make alot of parts of our f-16's and even selling it to the US, we upgrade alot of foreign air force's air crafts and sell them hi tech equippment, israel is rellying on the US mostly for the funding although it does'nt always seem that way, if USA decides to shut the funds israel will still be capable of producing almost everything and through weapons deal (that a large part of them the US does not allow and approve) we will get some funding.
In saudi's case you see a heavy reliance on foreign crews from the UK and US, so if US or UK decided to stop that you can pretty much call their air force a pile of hi tech and steel. Before the US sold the f-15's and E-3's they have modified it so it wont be so much effective against IAF air craft but rather against other middle eastern countries and mostly iran for the defence of their oil fields and holy sites.

[Highsky]

USA Lost 16 Apaches in Iraq

March 11, 2006: The U.S. Army is buying another sixteen AH-64 Apache helicopter gunships, for about $32 million each. These will replace the 16 lost, over the last three years, in Iraq. Some were lost to accidents, but most succumbed to ground fire, usually lots of it when the Apaches were going low and slow to provide fire support for ground troops. In most cases, the crews survived, but the helicopters were not worth repairing.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htproc/articles/20060311.aspx

[Snauhi]

OMG 16!!!...

Thats very few if you take into the account that they fly everyday.

[Shohad]

OMG 16!!!...

Thats very few if you take into the account that they fly everyday.
Yeah, the invasion was in 2003.. it's 3 years already.

Many were losts in accidents, I remember watching the news going WTF?! why do they drop these birds.

[Benzeen]

Isreal knowa their planes inside out so yes tehy can crush any arabs countries planes which they barley know how to fly!

btw Iran was the first country to purchse f-16! 160 F-16A were purchased and payed for and US still has not returned the moeny!~

[4X-IL]

Isreal knowa their planes inside out so yes tehy can crush any arabs countries planes which they barley know how to fly!

btw Iran was the first country to purchse f-16! 160 F-16A were purchased and payed for and US still has not returned the moeny!~


Israel barely knows how to fly? ROFL

About the money returning from the US i don't know.
but i DO know that all of Iran's F-16 is for 30 years in the IAF desert scheme :]]].

and we already started selling those to other countries like Romania, while getting ready for the JSF.

[Tbagger]

Israel barely knows how to fly? ROFL

About the money returning from the US i don't know.
but i DO know that all of Iran's F-16 is for 30 years in the IAF desert scheme :]]].

and we already started selling those to other countries like Romania, while getting ready for the JSF.
He meant the Arabs can't fly.

Didn't Israel get booted from the JSF project?

[Snauhi]

He meant the Arabs can't fly.

Didn't Israel get booted from the JSF project?

for a while but its back on it again

[Benzeen]

4X-IL YOu are really cant read can you?? Or are you just stupid?

[Sarge]

Not getting part of this foolish topic but, i found something interesting which i dont know how many of you saw in regards to the F-35 and Israel
After meeting US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Minister of Defense Shaul Mofaz announced on Friday that the crisis that had kept Israel out of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program had been resolved.

Mofaz said clear agreement had been reached for Israel’s participation in the program as a valued and important partner. He added that the US had promised that Israel could buy F-35s when development is completed. Israel wants to buy 100 F-35s, which will be delivered during the 2010s.

The resumption of Israel’s participation in the F-35 program will be immediate. The US will not wait for Israeli legislation on reorganization and tightening supervision of defense exports, in accordance with a recently signed memorandum of understanding between the two countries.

Mofaz did not raise with Rumsfeld the US administration’s ban on Israel’s upgrade of Venezuela Air Force F-16s. Israel believes that this matter should be discussed at a lower level. Israeli defense sources said talks on this matter were continuing. “We understand the Americans’ concern, and we expect that the US will understand ours,” said a source.

Ran Dagoni, Washington

Published by Globes [online], Israel business news - www.globes.co.il - on November 6, 2005 '

This is old news, however i am sure many of you have not seen it. It seems those Israelis are gonna have F-35's

[G-Capo]

1.Israel
2.UAE
3.Egypt
4.Saudi Arabia
5.Kuwait
6.Iran

[MetalMurF]

I will say my opnion for world global:

Skill Parameter:

1. Israel - 400 good fighters very skilld.
2.US
3. NATO, Germany..
and then russia and Suadi.
iranian pilots are not very skilld, they dont fly alot and have old-tech planes to fly in.

Tech and air power:
1. us : have 8000 aircraft for fightin missions.
2. nato - very strong force on the skies, alot of planes - Eurofighter.
3. israel - F-16I and F-15I can deal with any contry on the skies.

[Turk]

I will say my opnion for world global:

Skill Parameter:

1. Israel - 400 good fighters very skilld.
2.US
3. NATO, Germany..
and then russia and Suadi.
For your information, Turkish pilots would beat the crap out of Saudis.

[Benzeen]

Doesnt matter what Iran has! Nothing we get can stop our number 1 enemy the USA!

[Kilo877]

To Egyptian pharoah, looking at your picture of US and Egyptian planes flying over the pyramids during bright star I was wondering why there are parts of the Egyptian aircraft which are painted bright orange I have seen other pics of Egyptian planes with similar markings and was wondering why this is as this makes the planes more visible in the air which is a bad thing for a military aircraft to be.

[Hellas]

ranking of the Greek Air Force? any ideas?


confirmed forces
Tactical fighters
F-16C/D Block 52+: 60 (30 more were ordered in 2005 and will enter service till 2009) -- (30) just cancelled - the 30 jets are to be replaced by by a possible deal for 60 Euro fighters -- or Russian Su-fighters
F-16C/D Block 50D: 40
F-16C/D Block 30: 31 (go to F-16.net and you will see all information relating to the F-16)
Mirage 2000-5 Mk2: 25
Mirage 2000EGM/BGM: 25 (to be updated in order to reach the -5 Mk2 level)
F-4E Peace Icarus II: 35
F-4E SRA: 25 (to be retired)
RF-4E: 23
A-7H: 41 (to be retired)
A-7E: 45 (to be retired)

Transports
C-130 Hercules: 13 (2 Lost in crash)
C-27J Spartan: 12

Trainers
T-2 Buckeye: 40
T-6 Texan II: 45
T-41 Mescalero: 20

Reconnaissance - AWACS
EMB-145 Erieye: 4

Helicopters
AS-332C1 Super Puma: 6
AB 205: 11
AB 212: 4

General purporse
CL-415: 10
CL-215: 14

Anti-aircraft Artillery
MIM-104 Patriot PAC-3: 6
S-300 PMU-2: 2
Crotale NG: 12
9K331 TOR M1:4 fire units (for close range protection of the S-300)
Skyguard I: 12

Equipment
AIM-120 AMRAAM: 350
MBDA MICA: 200
IRIS-T: 350
AIM-9M: 165
AIM-9L: 1047
AIM-9P4: 995 (upgraded P3 and J Sidewinder)
Magic 2: 399 (1 used to shoot down a Turkish F-16D)
AGM-88B Block IIIA: 84
MBDA Scalp EG: 90
AFDS: 100
AM-39 Exocet Block 2: 40
AGM-65G: 200
AGM-65A & B: 284 (Proposal to be upgraded at H standard)
GBU-8B HOBOS: 96
GBU-24 Paveway III: 200
GBU-27 Paveway III: 250 (Not certain)
GBU-12 Paveway II: 600
GBU-16 Paveway II: 562

[Turk]

Greek and Turkish pilots are extremely skilled.

[Hellas]

Greek and Turkish pilots are extremely skilled.

Both sides are in a arms race, lead by the Turks.

[Tbagger]

This thread deserves a bump.

Oh yeah,

1. Israel
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Egypt
4. UAE

[Alex]

1.saudi arabia
2,israel
3,uae
4,turkey
5.egypt

[Yoni45]

Hah is this ever an old one ^^

[Tbagger]

Oops, forgot to add Turkey.

1. Israel
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Turkey
4. UAE
5. Egypt

[Soroush]

Oops, forgot to add Turkey.

1. Israel
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Turkey
4. UAE
5. Egypt

Turkey want's to be part of EU so they shouldn't be qualified at all. My list goes like this....

1. Saudi-Arabia
2. Israel
3. Egypt
4. Iran
5. UAE

Note: the saudis and egyptians may have superior aircrafts but in terms of skills they come no where close to Iran or Israel.

[Tbagger]

Note: the saudis and egyptians may have superior aircrafts but in terms of skills they come no where close to Iran or Israel.
Actually, Saudi pilots aren't that bad, since they recieve training from the USAF.

Also, Saudi F-15s have blasted Iranian Phantoms and Iraqi Mirages out of the sky. ;)

[Tbagger]

the UAE version of F-15 is DOWNGRADED.
it is LESS good from the C\D version, which is those version downgrade.
most of them doesn't have the lantir pods and more lots of importnt stuff.

You're freaking kidding me. The UAE's F-16E/Fs are the best Landarts in the world.

[Soroush]

Actually, Saudi pilots aren't that bad, since they recieve training from the USAF.

Also, Saudi F-15s have blasted Iranian Phantoms and Iraqi Mirages out of the sky. ;)

the saudis can blow me for all I care, during the time when shah of iran was around we participated in every single UN missions from the sky and trained excessivley with the USAF until the end of revolution. did you also know we trained with the blue angels?.

[Tbagger]

the saudis can blow me for all I care, during the time when shah of iran was around we participated in every single UN missiol from the sky and trained excessivley with the USAF until the end of revolution. did you also know we trained with the blue angels?.
That still doesn't explain why the Saudis beat the Iranians in that engagement, bro. :)

[Soroush]

That still doesn't explain why the Saudis beat the Iranians in that engagement, bro. :)

F-15 vs F-4..you guess who will win, those were american pilots btw. Saudis ran from Saddams army fearing an invasion thats why they called big daddey up for some help. If they saw us I'm sure they rather pull away from their jet with the ejection seats!.

[Tbagger]

I've never heard of US pilots flying in RSAF jets.

The Saudi Army might suck, but their AF is actually pretty good. ;)

[4X-IL]

You're freaking kidding me. The UAE's F-16E/Fs are the best Landarts in the world.



Yea I got confused with the Saudis F-15.

In any case, currently the best air force in the ME is Israel's, Saudis come after that.

We got much more than they do, and much better quality than they do, thats all.

[GER_Mark]

Note: the saudis and egyptians may have superior aircrafts but in terms of skills they come no where close to Iran or Israel.


jesus

when was the last time iran had an maneuvre with something that is not their own outdated equipment?

[kryp]

A Mig-25 on full throttle at over Mach 3 can outrun any missle fired at it

Amraam's were fired at them with no success

They even fired a Phoenix in one encounter and still no Mig-25 shot down.

The Python 5 is an untested system in war

The arrow is untested in war

I would place more faith in the Patriot missle's than the Arrow or Python 5

Patriot is tried and tested in war.

the skies to win.

1. mig29 can not run away from patriot (something like 6 much) patriot is probably the best anti air craft missile.

2.amraam ... its not the best air to air missile u know..

3.python is untasetad ? just today we shot down some unmanned plane used by hezoballah, made by iran (we shot him with python 4 , the 5 is way way better)
video :http://www.4law.co.il/avir13.wmv

4.the arrow doesnt used to be against air planes. :P

5.why do u thinkg that the patriot is better then the python ? they are differnet , python-short range , patriot - long range.


about the subject :

1.israel
2.usa
3.UK
4.frace
5.turkey
6.NL
7.saudiarabia
8.india

[ToTo]

1 Israel
2 Saudi arabia
3 Egypt
4 UAE
5 Iran

[UAE_CONDOR]

F-16


Israel 359 Block 5 -102 Block 52 F-16Abc

Egypt 229 Block 15 to Block 40 F-16Abc

UAE 80 Block 60 F-16E/F



Bahrain 22 Block 40 F-16C/D

Oman 12 Block 50 F-16C/D

Jordan 36 Block 15 ADF Block 20MLU F-16A /B IS IT GOOD ?

[kryp]

our F16I block 52 are better then the F16E block 60, and we have better missiles and pilots on them.

our F15I is the best F15 modol.
can fly to iran, bomb, dodgefight and come back to israel. it's the best plane we have.

[masterfx]

Israel number one in ME

[Indianwarrior]

Israel number one in ME

Depends of the number f deployed US Navy Carrier's :D

[kryp]

our air force better than USAF. they just have better airplanes.

[BlueFalcon109]

our air force better than USAF. they just have better airplanes.

... keep dreaming my friend

[Indianwarrior]

our air force better than USAF. they just have better airplanes.

and more, much more

[kryp]

... keep dreaming my friend

oh yeah ? we always win in the practice against USA.
in the last one , the ratio was 1:40.:rolleyes:

[Indianwarrior]

oh yeah ? we always win in the practice against USA.
in the last one , the ratio was 1:40.:rolleyes:

Thats Unrealistic but i agree that israeli pilots are better then us pilots, alone cause they all see service and have much more time in flight training, not just simulators

[masterfx]

and more, much more
thousand times more....:D

[kryp]

i just say what i know.
BTW , the USAF have much more training , becasue they have much more money. we can't let 100-150 planes fly everyday,like USA can.

[Tbagger]

our air force better than USAF. they just have better airplanes.
Roflmao, you now take the place of the funniest Israeli on the board. You managed to beat 4X-IL, congrats! :whoohoo3:

[kryp]

ja ?
we always win them in the practice, fact.
you can't really laugh on our airforce when your airforce is so bad.

[Tbagger]

ja ?
we always win them in the practice, fact.
you can't really laugh on our airforce when your airforce is so bad.
Your AF is great, but comparing it to the USAF? Thats like comparing a Porsche to a donkey.

Trust me, the USAF is the best in the world. No one comes close. We have the numbers, technology and training.

[masterfx]

i would like to see how IAF stand against USAFs f-22s

[Hawk_nr1]

ja ?
we always win them in the practice, fact.
you can't really laugh on our airforce when your airforce is so bad.


are you joking me???? USA got the best airforce in the world and training and skills you get your airplanes from USA

[Yoni45]

Sigh, if you guys are gonna argue a point, argue the point itself...

Kryp's point was that although the US does have more and better fighters, Israel's pilots are better trained. That means, that arguing that the US has more and better fighters is a moot point, it's out of the picture; that means, focus on the training and ability of the pilots...

[Tbagger]

Kryp's point was that although the US does have more and better fighters, Israel's pilots are better trained. That means, that arguing that the US has more and better fighters is a moot point, it's out of the picture; that means, focus on the training and ability of the pilots...
Pilot training is a critical factor. The USAF pour tons of money training pilots and have a lot of exercises (Red Flag, ect). Also, I've never heard about the USAF preforming DACT with the Israelis.

[BlueFalcon109]

see Tbagger now u know what us middle easterners have to deal with.. crazy zionists running their mouths about how great they are than anyone else.

[kryp]

are you joking me???? USA got the best airforce in the world and training and skills you get your airplanes from USA

skills ?
1:40 to IAF in the last practice.

[Tbagger]

skills ?
1:40 to IAF in the last practice.
Um, source?

If true, this looks fishy. A lot like that Cope India exercise.

[abdou]

hi,

i think ur all forgetting the algerian air force!!
it is not that bad actually there kinda good they got Su-30MKA (algerian variant) and MiG-29 SMT's Su-24 MK and that is only the strong planes they got

what is ur opinion


ty

[SS_Charlemagne]

hi,

i think ur all forgetting the algerian air force!!
it is not that bad actually there kinda good they got Su-30MKA (algeria variant) and MiG-29 SMT's Su-24 MK and that is only the strong planes they got

what is ur opinion


ty

Yes, looks good. Morocco's king should be concerned.. (I think they are buying some russian anti-air systems, if I'm not wrong). But... we can include Algeria in ME?

[abdou]

the first post in this thread speciiclly stated that we can include algeria so i think it is ok.

by the way i have not heard of the anti-air systems but if that is to happened it will trigger a weapons armament war between the two countries.

algeria is bound to win since hey have large oil and gas reserves

ty

[SS_Charlemagne]

the first post in this thread speciiclly stated that we can include algeria so i think it is ok.

by the way i have not heard of the anti-air systems but if that is to happened it will trigger a weapons armament war between the two countries.

algeria is bound to win since hey have large oil and gas reserves

ty

Yes, I think Algeria's army is superior, by anyway. They are buying good russian material. But about the anti-air systems, I was refering to Morocco. I don't remember the exact information, but I'll try to find a link...

[abdou]

thanks

i know that in 2004 morroco bought 12 tunguska anti-air
clearly to face algeria's advanced fleet of Mi-24 hind III attack helicopters
but algeria bought 30 tunguska's in it's latest 7.5 billion$ deal with russia

over

[SS_Charlemagne]

I have found this, in relation to ME air forces (but it's not what I was searching for...):

Russia Will Deliver MiG-31 Fighters to Its Customers in the Middle East


The MiG corporation and the Rosoboronehksport company are offering MiG-31 fighter delivery to a number of Middle Eastern countries which already have MiG brand airplanes in the inventory.

As has become known from official representatives of the corporation at the Farnborough 2006 air salon, the MiG-31 is being marketed to countries which use the previous version of this fighter – the MiG-25. Libya and Syria are included. It is being proposed to potential buyers they replace the aging MiG-25 with MiG-31 airplanes from the surplus Russian arsenal. The MiG-31Eh export variant will be upgraded, including equipping with a more modern missile system.

The MiG-31 is not only the fastest fighter of those it has on the market. It is distinguished from its counterparts by the largest radar, and its R-33Eh missiles, develop by the State Vympel Motor Design Bureau, have the greatest operational range among aerial missile weapons.

Thanks to the MiG-31, the Middle Eastern countries will increase their combat capabilities against targets flying at great distance or at high altitude of the "Global Hawk" unmanned aerial vehicle type. The fighter also can present a threat for such valuable assets as AWACS and Joint STARS ((both in English)) airborne systems.

According to the deputy general director of the corporation, Vladimir Barkovskiy, the MiG-31 has undergone tests for interception of cruise missile targets and "no problems arose in this area."

Source: 24.07.06, ARMS-TASS

http://www.elforo.de/armasrusas/viewtopic.php?t=4&start=150

[abdou]

i bet u that algeria is on the top of the list since it is one of the major arab contries that buy Migs next to syria libya and yeman and sudan

good link

[abdou]

algeria did purshace 8 battalions of S-300 PMU2 anti-air defences

but moroco iam not sure

[abdou]

1. Israel
2. Iran

And that's it basically. All other Armed Forces in Arabia are pretty much useless. They usually ask Pakistan to fly their jets.

i kinda disagree! isreal should be first not that i want it to.
as for iran, iam not really sure! they have a good air force no mistake about it but i think it should be third! We gotta admit guyz the saudi's have more advanced planes. The last deal they made was for 72 euro fighters! and probably an extra deal of 30 more! i do not know iam not an expert. But i think the saudi's have a well equiped air force it is too bad they never get to use it!

[caliban]

ok ill number it
1-aliens
2-goblins
3-unicorns
4-ancient greeks
5-mermaids

[abdou]

wat makes you thing there is no corruption in the pakistani armed forces! No offence man but we live in a time a corruption, war and bloodshed.
but in a conventional way of some how saudi's are welll equipted.
i know they are not the brave myrter warrior type, but they have the toys.

salamou3laikoum wa ra7matoulahi wa barakatahou

[Azarakash]

Israel, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Syria can actually be #1 but no one knows of their piloting skills.

[Indianarmy]

israel
saudia
egypt
kuwait
oman
syria
yemen
.
.
.
.
.
iran

Iran can be placed here they think they can take whole world by their old forces......:wink2: :wink2:

[masguy]

israel
saudia
egypt
kuwait
oman
syria
yemen
.
.
.
.
.
iran

Iran can be placed here they think they can take whole world by their old forces......:wink2: :wink2:


please be more realistic.what do mean by old forces.And you seriusly think that a new forces is the ticket to win the war?

[Indianarmy]

yes wat do you think,if there was a war b/w india and iran who would win are forces are very well modern than yours pldies....

[masguy]

i know India has a strong army and militiry eq.,but you can't just easily underestimate them.take a look at Isreal as an example.with so-called 'world4th strongest military(?)',....but i think you already know what the result of 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict and 1982-2000 South Lebanon conflict.and what about War in Afghanistan,Bay of Pigs Invasion,vietnam war ?
Ok,let's go back to the basic Question.we are not talking about India,we're talking about ME.

[Azarakash]

Well to me India has the best military in Asia and certainly better than the Euro militaries. They have all sorts of gadgets. China's actually is better in that they have more of everything. But India's military in uncomparably the most modern in Asia. But in all honesty I only regard India as the only nation between Central Asia and the Middle East that can realistically face Iran.
Iran faught all the semetic armies and the United States at 1nce! So Iran is very certainly a hardy nation when it comes to warfare. They aren't exactly the most skilled. I would rank Turkey as very skilled but Iran is very robust.

[KingoftheHill]

But in all honesty I only regard India as the only nation between Central Asia and the Middle East that can realistically face Iran


India has the resources to defeat Iran, whether they can use them effectively is beyond us. India is the only really strong regional power over there IMO.