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Syria has signed for 5 Mig-31E Foxhounds financed by Iran [Archive] - Iran Defense Forum

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attitude
06-19-2007, 02:35 AM
http://www.kommersant.com/p775460/arms_trade_/
Russia has begun to implement the contract signed by Rosoboronexport with Syria this year for the delivery of five MiG-31E fighter-interceptors. That means that Russia is renewing arms deliveries to the Middle East after a hiatus due to the war in Lebanon. Iran may be the big winner from the deal, since there exists an Iranian-Syrian mutual defense agreement, and Iran is financing Damascus's purchase.
Several sources in the military-industrial complex told Kommersant that OAO Nizhny Novgorod Sokol Plant has begun working on the five MiG-31E aircraft. At the beginning of the year, Rosoboronexport signed a contract with Damascus for them. Since production of the MiG-31 was halted in 1994, Syria is receiving planes from the reserve of the Russian Air Force that are being modified to the purchaser's specifications.

Vladimir Vypryazhkin, deputy general director of the state MiG Russian Aviation Construction Corp. told Kommersant yesterday that “export orders are starting to come in for the MiG-31.” He declined to identify the source of the orders, but noted that “We are offering the MiG-31E on a trade-in basis for countries that have the MiG-25 interceptor.”

Only Libya and Syria have MiG-25 fighter-interceptor and recognizance plane at present. India recently retired its MiG-25s.

Boris Aleshin, chairman of the Federal Industry Agency, confirmed that there is a contract for the MiG-31E. He also declined to identify the purchaser. Kommersant has learned that a lot of MiG-29M/M2 jets was sold to Syria as well. They are being sold abroad for the first time and are similar in their technical specifications to the MiG-35 model Russia is now offering India. The total value of the contract for the MiG-31 and MiG-29M/M2 aircraft is estimated at $1 billion.

Several questions are raised by the deal. First, where Syria got the money for such expensive weapons. In the winter of 2005, Russia wrote off 70 percent of Syria's foreign debt, which was $13.4 billion at the time. Under that agreement, Syria's debt to Russia was reduced to $3.6 billion. Russia renewed military-technical cooperation with Syrian at the same time. Information has arisen regularly since the beginning of 2005 that Syria is in negotiations with Russia for the purchase of new weapons. First Iskander-E missiles were mentioned. Russian President Vladimir Putin even confirmed that Damascus was interested in them, but he supposedly personally blocked the deal. At the beginning of this year, unofficial information emerged that negotiations had been renewed. This time, the items of interest to Syria were Pantsir, Strelets and Igla missiles. Strelets ballistic missiles were delivered to Syria in 2005. Sergey Chemezov, general director of Rosoboronexport, stated in January of this year that “the Syrians want our Igla complex, but we won't give it to them.”

Syrian President Bashar Assad was in Moscow in December of last year for negotiations with Putin, at which Syria's desire to replace its aging MiG-25 planes with new MiG-29 or MiG-31 models.

Western experts think that one of the reasons for Syria's spending spree may be that it is buying weapons for not only for itself, or not for itself at all. Moscow and Damascus concluded a contract last year for the delivery of 36 Pantsir-S1E artillery missile systems. In May of this year, the authoritative British Jane's Defence Weekly reported that at least ten of those Pantsirs would be handed over to Iran by the end of 2008. According to that publication, Iran is the main sponsor of the deal and is paying Syria for its services as intermediary.

There is still no official conformation of the deal described, but the cooperation scheme between Syria and Iran is perfectly believable. Tehran and Damascus are linked by a number of agreements on mutual defense. A Syrian-Iranian strategic alliance was wrought in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war. In recent years, Syria and Iran have signed a whole series of agreements on closely coordinated defense activities. In February 2005, for example, almost simultaneously with Russia's forgiveness of much of Syria's debt to it, Syrian Prime Minister Naji Otari and Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref signed a mutual defense pact and, in July 2006, the defense ministers of the two countries, Hasan Turkmani and Mostafa Mohammad Najar, signed an agreement creating a high defense commission and one on military cooperation that envisaged Iranian financing of Syrian arms deals with Russia, Ukraine and China.

Iran's interest in Russian arms is explained by the conflict developing between it and the United States and the likelihood of armed conflict in the region. In the USSR, the MiG-31 was considered a key element in the defense against a potential attack from the U.S. It was to knock out American cruise missiles flying over the North Pole. The usefulness of that Soviet technology in a potential conflict between the U.S. and Iran is debatable. In the event of a war, Iran's chances of an air victory are negligible, no matter what weapons they buy.

The MiG-31 would do more good for Syria. Head of the Technology and National Security Program at the Holon Institute of Technology and Israeli Air Force Col. (Res.) Shmuel Gordon told Kommersant that “This is the first serious modernization of the Syrian antiaircraft and antimissile system in ten years. It will most likely seriously limit the Israeli Air Force's freedom of action. The appearance of those planes means that the Syrians can take down Israeli planes over the Golan Heights or Lebanon. That is to say this is a quantitative leap in Syria's ability to wage an air war.” Gordon also thought that five planes was but the tip of the iceberg. “It makes little sense to limit oneself to five planes. Where there's five, there will soon be 20, and maybe 24, planes. Maintenance of the planes is very expensive, but it makes no difference whether you maintain five or 20 of them.” Former head of the Israeli Air Force Maj. Gen. Eitan Ben-Eliahu agrees with him. “That can influence the actions of the Israeli Air Force somewhat, but the influence will not be significant. It does not at all change the fact of Israel's absolute air superiority. However, if the number of Syria's planes is increased, that could change the situation. The most dangerous thing for Israel's security is not the delivery of five planes but the renewal of deliveries.”

According to Knesset member and former chairman of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Yuval Steinitz, “It cannot be said that a specific deal is a threat to Israel's security, but the main danger is that it is a matter of a whole package of deals that gradually adds up.” Last year, Israel alleged to Moscow in confidential negotiations that some of the arms it sold to Syria fell into the hands of the Hezbollah and being used in the war in Lebanon last summer.

The sale of Russian jets to Syria will undoubtedly have repercussions in the West. Moscow is not likely to be concerned with American criticism at the moment, since the main problem in U.S.-Russian relations is the U.S. missile defense system in Eastern Europe. Now the two issues may be discussed together.

Iran's position on the missile defense system can be considered indirect confirmation that it is deriving some sort of benefit from the present deal. When Putin suggested to U.S. President George W. Bush that they counter the Iranian threat by using the Gabala radar station in Azerbaijan together, Tehran unexpectedly announced that it does not consider Russia's proposal hostile and that it will not affect Russia's good relations with Iran.

What is the MiG-31?

Development of the MiG-31 supersonic fighter-interceptor (Foxhound in NATO classification) was begun by the Mikoyan Experimental Design Bureau in 1968. The first test flights were performed in 1977 and it went into service in 1981.

The airplane was first created to defend the USSR from cruise missile attacks from the Arctic. A number of weapons systems were used for the first time in the USSR in the MiG-31, including the R-33 long-distance (about 120 km.) air-to-air guided missile and the Zaslon radar system, capable of locating its target at a distance of 180 km. and both guide missiles to it and relay the information to other aircraft and ground facilities.

The MiG-31 has a two-man crew. Its combat radius is 720 km. (1400 km. with external fuel tanks), maximum speed 3000 km./hr. and operational ceiling of 20,600 m. It has a flight weight of 41 tons. Besides missiles, the plane is armed with a 23-mm. gun and two or four short- or medium-range missiles. The MiG-31 was produced at the Sokol plant in Nizhny Novgorod until 1994. More than 500 planes were produced. There are about 300 of them in the Russian Air Force at present and about 40 in Kazakhstan.

Several modifications of the plane have been developed, including the MiG-31M (with a new 320-km. radar system) and MiG-31F (capable of striking ground targets). The MiG-31 has not been used in combat and has not been exported. There were media reported in the early 1990s of interest from Syria, Iran and China in acquiring the aircraft, but no contracts for it were signed

abdou
06-19-2007, 05:47 AM
i was just going to post the news u beat me too it :)

congratz to syria on this deal, but i can clearly see that no body saw this coming, i expected syria to invest on its SAMs

apple_fritta
06-19-2007, 05:55 AM
Awesome. :)

attitude
06-19-2007, 07:04 AM
This is really good for Syria
There airforce has been lacking for years and Mig-31E will give them a great deterent to Israeli overflights into Syria
It also mentions Syria is getting Mig-29M2 as well
Syria is on the right path with this purchase

apple_fritta
06-19-2007, 07:11 AM
This is really good for Syria
There airforce has been lacking for years and Mig-31E will give them a great deterent to Israeli overflights into Syria
It also mentions Syria is getting Mig-29M2 as well
Syria is on the right path with this purchase

I agree, their troops need to know that they have heir air force watching over them.

Btw how good are mig31s in strike missions? Would they eb any good in strikes with cover from mig29s?

attitude
06-19-2007, 07:19 AM
Mig-31 is an interceptor
Its better employed as top cover for any strike package using its speed and long range missiles, its not a strike aircraft
It was originally designed by the soviets to shootdown cruise missiles

apple_fritta
06-19-2007, 07:29 AM
Mig-31 is an interceptor
Its better employed as top cover for any strike package using its speed and long range missiles, its not a strike aircraft
It was originally designed by the soviets to shootdown cruise missiles

Oke thanx for info mate. So the mig29 i better off getting cover by mig31 rathe than giving it cover :)

cheers.

Khaybar
06-19-2007, 08:05 AM
http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/mikoyan/mig/31/e/mig31e_e.htm

Here are some additional information about the interceptor, that Syria is buying the export version.

http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/mikoyan/mig/31/e/images/mig31e-2.jpg

http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/mikoyan/mig/31/e/images/mig31e-4.jpg

http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/mikoyan/mig/31/e/images/mig31e-1.jpg

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تزول الجبال ولا تزل عض على ناجذك اعر الله جمجمتك تدفى في الارض قدمك ارم ببصرك اقصى القوم و غض بصرك و اعلم ان النصر من عند الله سبحانه
امير المؤمنين علي عليه السلام

abdou
06-19-2007, 08:58 AM
about the MiG-29 M2 is it bette then the SMT or just like it?

thanks

attitude
06-19-2007, 09:14 AM
The aircraft I flew in from Zhukovsky/Ramenskoye (No. 154) is the fourth prototype of the former MiG-29M (9.15), upgraded with a totally new front fuselage, a large diameter bubble-type canopy, new digital fly-by-wire controls, a modern fire-control system with Zhuk-M radar and an updated armament selection. It is a land-based version of the new, navalised MiG-29K/KUB, designed for low-altitude operations against high-value targets under heavy electronic countermeasures. The design was offered to Malaysia as a multirole combat aircraft - hence the large 'MRCA' title on the fins. Beside targeting markets for strike-fighters, so far dominated by the rival Sukhoi-company, RAC also plans to supply the new MiG-29SMT with a fully combat-capable two-seater in bids where the regular MiG-29UB trainer (without radar) was considered as unsuitable (like in Austria).

The advanced fighter conducted its debut flight from the Zhukovsky test-centre near Moscow on 26 September 2001, ahead of its participation in the 9-14 October LIMA 2001 defence exhibition in Langkawi, Malaysia. Altough the new aircraft has similar contours with the base version of MiG-29, the MiG-29M2 is actually a new fighter with extended combat range, modern on-board equipment, 4-channel digital fly-by-wire control system, increased combat payload and an extended range of weapons.

It has principally extended strike functions, including ability of group attack at low altitude in complicated enemy countermeasures-conditions, keeping high effectiveness in air combat. The fighter is equipped with “Zhuk-M” radar and can carry up to 4,500kg of weapons, such as Kh-31A (AS-17 'Krypton') and Kh-35U (AS-20 'Kayak') anti-ship missiles, Kh-31P anti-radiation missiles, Kh-29T/TE (AS-14 'Kedge') air-to-surface missiles and KAB-500Kr bombs.

Due to distribution of duties between two pilots and to new on-board equipment the aircraft in complicated combat environment will have higher combat effectiveness than its single-seater competitors.

MiG-29M-2 is an advanced, genuinely multirole tactical fighter for control of upper airspace, ground attack and naval high-altitude precision weapons control. It has got increased payload/range and endurance and is intended as replacement for basic MiG-29.

Preceded by 9.14 with Ryabina (mountain) LLTV targeting pod, the 9.14 prototype (07682 `407') first flew 13 February 1985, but became 9.13/MiG-29S development aircraft. It features greatly redesigned airframe; two 86.3 kN (19,400 lb st) Klimov RD-33K turbofans (`land-based' versions of MiG-29K engine); it is designed for triplex analogue fly-by-wire controls for lateral axis, quadruplex elsewhere, with mechanical back-up to ailerons and rudders (only pitch axis fly-by-wire by late 1996); it has a 'glass' cockpit with two monochrome (green) multifunction CRTs (not push-button, but HOTAS); finally, the airframe includes modifications to extend aft centre of gravity limit for relaxed stability.

The first of six prototypes and one static test airframe was flown on 25 April 1986 with RD-33 engines; first flight with RD-33K engines (previously tested on 921) 26 September 1987; first exhibited at Machulishche airfield, February 1992; flight refuelling trials on standard MiG-29 test aircraft began 16 November 1995, completed January 1996; enlarged engine air intakes with movable lower lip to increase mass flow on take-off. Original FOD doors in air intakes replaced by lighter retractable grids, permitting deletion of overwing louvres and internal ducting in lightweight aluminium-lithium alloy centre-section, providing increased fuel tankage; new intakes tested on 921; total internal fuel capacity 5,700 litres (1,506 US gallons; 1,254 Imp gallons). New wing section, with sharp leading-edge. Increased span ailerons. Bulged wingtips with fore and aft RWRs; more rounded wingtip trailing-edge; larger, sharp-edge and slightly raised LERX; increased-chord horizontal tail surfaces, with dogtooth leading-edge. Bonded aluminium-lithium front fuselage, welded steel behind; nose lengthened by approximately 20 cm (7½ in); 40 mm (1½ in) higher canopy; new IFF and Gardeniya active jammer in dorsal spine, which terminates in `beaver-tail' structure, containing twin 13 m2 (140 sq ft) brake-chutes, that extends beyond jet nozzles; single larger honeycomb composite over-fuselage airbrake. Strengthened landing gear with KT-209 mainwheels. Extensive use of RAM-coating giving claimed `×10' reduction in frontal RCS.

Phazotron Zhuk-M Radar and other Avionics

Also known as the N010M, as yet unconfirmed eastern European sources describe Zhuk-M as utilising a flat-plate antenna and the `Bagiet’ processor in place of the baseline radar’s C.90 unit. Use of `Bagiet’ is said to have facilitated the introduction of a range of air-to-surface modes including ground mapping, stationary target detection, ground MTI, terrain avoidance and Doppler beam sharpening. Russian sources suggest that Zhuk-M is intended for MiG-29 applications.

General data of Zhuk-M
Frequency range: 8-12.5 GHz
Detection range: 120 km (forward hemisphere, 5 m² RCS target)
Targets: up to 4 (tracked); 10 (detected)
Angular coverage: -40º/+55º (elevation); ± 85º (azimuth)
Weight: 180 kg

The MiG-29M also has a new OLS-M longer-range IRST, with added TV channel and laser designator/marked target seeker using common mirror system. TS101 processors with new software. A-331 Shoran. Chaff/flare dispensers relocated in dorsal spine.

Claimed more comfortable to fly, with increased permissible angle of attack (30º during initial tests, subsequently expanded), better manoeuvrability, and improved cruise efficiency the new MiG has also got eight underwing hardpoints for 4,500 kg (9,920 lb) stores, including four laser-guided Kh-25ML (AS-10 `Karen') or Kh-29L (AS-14 `Kedge'), anti-radiation Kh-25MP (AS-12 `Kegler') and Kh-31A/P (AS-17 `Krypton') or TV-guided Kh-29T (AS-14 `Kedge') ASMs; eight RVV-AE (R-77; AA-12 `Adder') AAMs, R-73E (AA-11 `Archer') AAMs or KAB-500KR 500 kg TV-guided bombs. According to conversations at Ramenskoye, RAC-MiG has recently bought 15 tons of latest Russian precision guided ammo on their own expenses in order to be able to start weapons-certification for foreign customers.

Number of rounds for gun was reduced to 100.

The welded Al-Li structure is very expensive and failed to provide promised weight savings. State Acceptamce Tests were suspended due to funding problems, in May 1993. The planned MiG-29UBM trainer (9.61) was abandoned, and was not ordered for Russian Air Forces at the time, though development was relaunched by MAPO in late 1999. A re-worked development was re-launched by MAPO in late 1999 and MiG-29M2 (unveiled at MAKS 2001 and also referred to as the MRCA) is a two-seat strike variant of the `Fulcrum', and is optimised for low-level operations against high-value, high-risk targets. The type made its maiden flight from Zhukovsky on 26 September 2001. The aircraft is a land-based version of the navalised MiG-29KUB and includes folding wings and the Phazotron-NIIR Zhuk-M multimode radar.
Range on internal fuel is 1,079 nm (2,000km; 1,242 miles), or, with three external tanks 1,726nm (3,200km; 1,988 miles).

Zhuk-M Capabilities and Performances
The Phazotron-NIIR Zhuk-M belongs to a family of X-band (8 to 12.5 GHz) airborne multimode radars. Known alternately as the N010, the Zhuk radar is noted as having been originally designed for installation aboard the MiG-29 9.16 prototype and was subsequently flown aboard prototypes of the MiG-29M during the early 1990s. As of late 2001/early 2002, a variant of the equipment was being promoted as a potential upgrade for the MiG-23 fighter. In terms of components, Russian sources describe the radar as comprising a 680 mm diameter, slotted-array, flat-plate antenna assembly, a receiver, an `advanced' data controller, data and signal processors, a synchroniser, a power supply, an exciter, a transmitter and what is termed a `TV-former' unit.

Also known as the N010M, Zhuk-M is utilising a flat-plate and the "Bagiet" processor in place of the baseline radar's C.90 unit. Use of "Bagiet" wassaid to have facilitated the introduction of a range of air-to-surface modes, including ground mapping, stationary target detection, ground MTI, terrain-avoidance and Doppler beam sharpening. Russian sources suggest that Zhuk-M is intended for all MiG-29 applications. The MiG-29M2 also has a new OLS-M longer-range IRST, with added TV-channel and laser-designator/marked target seeker, using common mirror system, then TS101 processors with new software, A-331 Shoran, and chaff&flare dispensers relacated into the dorsal spine.

Zhuk-series Working Modes
The radar features a built-in test capability and is credited with 15 operating modes divided between air-to-air and air-to-surface modes as follows:

Air-to-air
Look-up/look-down range-while-search and Track-While-Scan (TWS) of 10 targets with simultaneous engagement of up to four.

Air combat
Vertical search; head-up display search; wide-angle search; boresight and automatic terrain avoidance for low-altitude combat operations.

Air-to-surface
Real beam ground-mapping; Doppler beam sharpening; synthetic aperture; display enlargement/freeze; TWS on four targets; ground target Moving Target Indicator (MTI)/tracker; air-to-surface ranging and navigation update.
Weapons compatibility includes the Kh-31A, R-27R1, R-27T1, R-37E and RW-AE munitions.

Status
As of late 2001/early 2002, the Zhuk, Zhuk-8-II, Zhuk-27, Zhuk-F and Zhuk-M variants of the Zhuk airborne multimode radar were being promoted. According to Jane’s sources, the People’s Republic of China ordered 100 examples of the Zhuk-8-II for retrofit aboard J-8-II interceptors of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) in June 2001, while the Zhuk-M-S is understood to have been installed aboard late production PLAAF Su-30MKK fighters. Here, sources suggest that the first 20 Su-30MKKs were fitted with the N001VE variant of NIIP’s Mech radar. For its part, Zhuk-MF has been suggested as a candidate radar for installation aboard the Russian Federation’s forthcoming 5th generation combat aircraft.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_293.shtml

mustavaris
06-19-2007, 09:21 AM
MiG-31 is pretty good defensive interceptor, though the number mentioned is not enough for all out war, but to deter some random recon flights and such. If they want to get some A2A capabilities, they definately need modernized MiG-29s or if they could afford, rather some Su-27 variant... as far as I memery serves Syria has some MiG-29As so I believe that if the MiG-29 deal gets thru, they will upgrade and re-engine their old aircraft.

But there is one thing that comes to my mind: how much resources Syrians are wasting when they operate such a large number of different aircraft?

Khaybar
06-19-2007, 09:28 AM
Mig 29m/m2:

http://warfare.ru/?catid=255&linkid=1600

Mig 31 foxhound:

http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1601&catid=255

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تزول الجبال ولا تزل عض على ناجذك اعر الله جمجمتك تدفى في الارض قدمك ارم ببصرك اقصى القوم و غض بصرك و اعلم ان النصر من عند الله سبحانه
امير المؤمنين علي عليه السلام

Mentor
06-19-2007, 01:56 PM
Many of Iranian people must be poor and Syria buying MIG-31 with their money!

mustavaris
06-20-2007, 01:31 AM
Many of Iranian people must be poor and Syria buying MIG-31 with their money!

Iran has been spending their money like this for long time. Regardless of that, such can be efficient way of resource allocation. There are many poor people in USA, and they buy a lot of weapons for Israel.

Leaving today for midsummer´s celebrations, spending the rest of the week and maybe early next week in the countryside, so do not expect answers for some time

Zraver
06-20-2007, 02:48 AM
MiG-31 is pretty good defensive interceptor, though the number mentioned is not enough for all out war, but to deter some random recon flights and such. If they want to get some A2A capabilities, they definately need modernized MiG-29s or if they could afford, rather some Su-27 variant... as far as I memery serves Syria has some MiG-29As so I believe that if the MiG-29 deal gets thru, they will upgrade and re-engine their old aircraft.

But there is one thing that comes to my mind: how much resources Syrians are wasting when they operate such a large number of different aircraft?

it on't be used defnesively, with onyl 5 planes it cannot keep a curtainup 24/7. Hoever as a dedicated strike force to force IAF Hawkeye/Phaelcon AWAC planes out far over the Med reducing their ability to co-ordinate IAF actions it it is very useful. Gives the other Syrian fighters a better chance in combat

mustavaris
06-20-2007, 02:54 AM
it on't be used defnesively, with onyl 5 planes it cannot keep a curtainup 24/7. Hoever as a dedicated strike force to force IAF Hawkeye/Phaelcon AWAC planes out far over the Med reducing their ability to co-ordinate IAF actions it it is very useful. Gives the other Syrian fighters a better chance in combat

You are probably right although I still wonder whats the point in adding yet another aircraft of different type into their inventory. Their radars and rather high speed make them good for interception of recon flights, while just 5.. well.. single attack against the AWACS-assets and they are out if the Israelis are up to their tasks.

Leaving today for midsummer´s celebrations, spending the rest of the week and maybe early next week in the countryside, so do not expect answers for some time

Zraver
06-20-2007, 03:29 AM
You are probably right although I still wonder whats the point in adding yet another aircraft of different type into their inventory. Their radars and rather high speed make them good for interception of recon flights, while just 5.. well.. single attack against the AWACS-assets and they are out if the Israelis are up to their tasks.

Leaving today for midsummer´s celebrations, spending the rest of the week and maybe early next week in the countryside, so do not expect answers for some time

The 31 is vastly superior to the F-15A and F-15I both of those are configured for more traditional Israeli roles which rake place at shorter ranges and lower levels. The Foxhound can sit above 60,000' watch fora gap with its superior radar, and use its great dash speed it (probably) can skip in over the top of the IAF pop the awacs and then turn and burn away from Israel and renter Syria from Northern Lebanon

uppal340
06-20-2007, 04:29 AM
all depends on how syrian pilots r against israelis................

apple_fritta
06-20-2007, 04:38 AM
^at above

Totally agree. Syrian pilots have never proven them selves in battle, not even a little. They need taining.

abdou
06-20-2007, 04:56 AM
i hope syria can aquire more of MiG-31, and along with the MIG-29M2 they have the chance to actually beat israel in A2A combat, but they need training and lots of the planes mentioned above

Mentor
06-20-2007, 07:55 AM
Iran has been spending their money like this for long time. Regardless of that, such can be efficient way of resource allocation. There are many poor people in USA, and they buy a lot of weapons for Israel.

Leaving today for midsummer´s celebrations, spending the rest of the week and maybe early next week in the countryside, so do not expect answers for some time

I don’t care about deals between US and Israel; I am an Iranian and benefits of my country and Iranian people must be important for me and Government of Iran first , not Syria and so on!!

apple_fritta
06-22-2007, 03:42 AM
Defectors are also an issue for syria... =|

BornB4
06-24-2007, 06:01 PM
I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

Vladimir80
06-24-2007, 06:27 PM
I don't see why anyone want Mig-31. Production ended long time ago and they are front-line aviation of VVS. Spares and stocks are required for VVS to maintain operability. If we sell Cold War stocks we hurt Russian readiness. I don't understand why not buy Sukhoi instead?

mustavaris
06-25-2007, 01:16 AM
^at above

Totally agree. Syrian pilots have never proven them selves in battle, not even a little. They need taining.

Training is expensive. Can Syria afford such as they already field many different types of aircraft and they need Iranian money to get these new aircraft... I do not think that there will be any drastic change in that matter.

mustavaris
06-25-2007, 01:18 AM
I don’t care about deals between US and Israel; I am an Iranian and benefits of my country and Iranian people must be important for me and Government of Iran first , not Syria and so on!!

I understand your point of view, but in some cases this kind of resource allocation is useful (although in Iranian case, only if they choose the path of [potential] confrontation)

attitude
06-25-2007, 06:38 AM
5 aircraft is just the beggining and it is likely that there will be follow on orders every few years till they have around 15 or 20 Mig-31's

Vladimir80
06-25-2007, 07:24 AM
5 aircraft is just the beggining and it is likely that there will be follow on orders every few years till they have around 15 or 20 Mig-31's

This article is only speculative and said Putin denied the order. The VVS will not part with our precious Mig-31s until the next generation aircraft comes online and this is not for awhile. You must understand our operational readiness is low and cannot be sacrificed by sending Syria spare planes and parts we do not have for ourselves.

BornB4
06-26-2007, 07:10 PM
I don't see why anyone want Mig-31. Production ended long time ago and they are front-line aviation of VVS. Spares and stocks are required for VVS to maintain operability. If we sell Cold War stocks we hurt Russian readiness. I don't understand why not buy Sukhoi instead?
Shut up. The MiG-31 is better than most of the newer aircraft which are slower, much larger and visible on radar. It also was designed to intercept the SR-71 blacbird which is a stealth survellience plane which the newer aircraft can't nearly intercept. The MiG-31 is the best deal out their. Iran has about 5 themselves and should acquire the MiG-33 as well!

Vladimir80
06-26-2007, 07:14 PM
Shut up. The MiG-31 is better than most of the newer aircraft which are slower, much larger and visible on radar. It also was designed to intercept the SR-71 blacbird which is a stealth survellience plane which the newer aircraft can't nearly intercept. The MiG-31 is the best deal out their. Iran has about 5 themselves and should acquire the MiG-33 as well!


Considering US don't fly SR-71 anymore why Iran need it? Mig-33 and Su-27 models more than capable to take out 4th generation US aircraft. I would love to reopen Mig-31 assembly line to make some for you but it's not reality... sorry :(

BornB4
06-26-2007, 07:28 PM
You don't know what the hell you're talking about sir. The MiG-31 would destroy the Su-27.
Plus Syria has Su-27s. You certainly know not what you are claiming to know.

Vladimir80
06-26-2007, 07:42 PM
You don't know what the hell you're talking about sir. The MiG-31 would destroy the Su-27.
Plus Syria has Su-27s. You certainly know not what you are claiming to know.

You the one who listens to rumour as fact. Syria never recieved Su-27, it was rumour found untrue.

http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-27/su-27_ops.htm

Mig-31 could destroy it at long range but Su-27 is superior at close range. With new long range Vympel R-77 Su-27 is more than match for Mig-31 in all aspect battle.

BornB4
06-26-2007, 07:56 PM
I'm no stranger to the Vympel. I've known of that missile for years and if anything it would make the Foxhound more dangerous.

Vladimir80
06-26-2007, 08:01 PM
I'm no stranger to the Vympel. I've known of that missile for years and if anything it would make the Foxhound more dangerous.

Our Mig-31s are recieving the upgrade from R-33 to R-77 because it is state of the art missile. If Iran gets her hands on Mig-31 more power to her but I honestly doubt if Duma will allow it.

Zraver
06-26-2007, 08:06 PM
Shut up. The MiG-31 is better than most of the newer aircraft which are slower, much larger and visible on radar. It also was designed to intercept the SR-71 blacbird which is a stealth survellience plane which the newer aircraft can't nearly intercept. The MiG-31 is the best deal out their. Iran has about 5 themselves and should acquire the MiG-33 as well!

huh, dude drugs are bad. Although based on the Foxbat, the Foxhound was desinged with anew mission, to counter low flying US bombers and cruise missiles and to plug gaps in the VVS's radar coverage. Russia never even tried to counter the SR-71 with a sustaiend cruising speed of mach 3.5+ and a near space operating altitude.

Tallgeese
06-27-2007, 07:31 AM
Syria should order an AEW&C plane before it orders a MiG-31E. Besides, I doubt they can handle it as they can barely deal with the MiG-25PD.

Khaybar
07-05-2007, 01:59 PM
Syria's best chances is investing in anti-air missiles, it takes too long to create an adequate air force.

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تزول الجبال ولا تزل عض على ناجذك اعر الله جمجمتك تدفى في الارض قدمك ارم ببصرك اقصى القوم و غض بصرك و اعلم ان النصر من عند الله سبحانه
امير المؤمنين علي عليه السلام

mustavaris
07-06-2007, 02:41 AM
Syria's best chances is investing in anti-air missiles, it takes too long to create an adequate air forceام

Besides that, such takes a lot of money when comparing to price of the decent AD network.

apple_fritta
07-06-2007, 06:12 AM
Syria should order an AEW&C plane before it orders a MiG-31E. Besides, I doubt they can handle it as they can barely deal with the MiG-25PD.

The Iran 140 would be a good one for Syria. Low cost, no strgins attached. Buy 6-8 of there Their boys are gonna have the back up they need. Their s300 will help out aswell.

Bumble Bee
07-09-2007, 02:43 PM
Our Mig-31s are recieving the upgrade from R-33 to R-77 because it is state of the art missile. If Iran gets her hands on Mig-31 more power to her but I honestly doubt if Duma will allow it.

Rumour has it that iRn already has 5-10 MiG-31s search this forum because someone posted it. The MiG-31 covers most needs very easily.:)

Vladimir80
07-09-2007, 04:10 PM
Rumour has it that iRn already has 5-10 MiG-31s search this forum because someone posted it. The MiG-31 covers most needs very easily.:)

Considering Rosoboronexport denies it delievered anything and that if it did we would know should dispell that rumour.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070619/67480943.html

apple_fritta
07-10-2007, 01:23 AM
Rumour has it that iRn already has 5-10 MiG-31s search this forum because someone posted it. The MiG-31 covers most needs very easily.:)

I would discourage mig31 being used for air to ground roles :)