Shahroudi: Women victims of so-called advocates of human rights in West

[payam]

http://server32.irna.com/filesystem/07/07/03/386219-49-18_n.jpg

Judiciary Chief Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi said on Tuesday that the alleged defenders of women's rights in the West have betrayed women the most.

Shahroudi made the remarks in a meeting with a number of female activists at universities, judiciary and Majlis.

"Islam has given the highest status to women and strongly supports their rights, dignity and their social status," he said.

"The Western advocates of women's rights mainly in the contemporary era have committed the severest betrayal of the rights of women," he said.

In Islam, Fatemeh Zahra (SA), the daughter of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), is a model for high status of women among Muslims who helped the Prophet accomplish his significant role, he said.

Fatemeh Zahra (SA) is an unprecedented model of a complete human being who thoroughly demonstrated significant role of females in Islam, he said.

Due to interaction of natural and inborn characteristics of women and men in their social life in the West, women's status has been harmed and resulted inn the dissolution of families and disrespect, he said.

Islam underlines that both male and female enjoy equal rights, he stated.

Islamic societies should not be deceived by lies and fabricated mottoes of the so-called advocates of women's rights, warned Shahroudi.

West now casts an instrumental and economic look on females, he said adding, "We should not be deceived by these false propaganda and let the lofty status of women in Islam being shattered."
http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/line-24/0707030526192710.htm

[Relikt]

http://server32.irna.com/filesystem/07/07/03/386219-49-18_n.jpg

Judiciary Chief Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi said on Tuesday that the alleged defenders of women's rights in the West have betrayed women the most.

Shahroudi made the remarks in a meeting with a number of female activists at universities, judiciary and Majlis.

"Islam has given the highest status to women and strongly supports their rights, dignity and their social status," he said.

"The Western advocates of women's rights mainly in the contemporary era have committed the severest betrayal of the rights of women," he said.

In Islam, Fatemeh Zahra (SA), the daughter of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), is a model for high status of women among Muslims who helped the Prophet accomplish his significant role, he said.

Fatemeh Zahra (SA) is an unprecedented model of a complete human being who thoroughly demonstrated significant role of females in Islam, he said.

Due to interaction of natural and inborn characteristics of women and men in their social life in the West, women's status has been harmed and resulted inn the dissolution of families and disrespect, he said.

Islam underlines that both male and female enjoy equal rights, he stated.

Islamic societies should not be deceived by lies and fabricated mottoes of the so-called advocates of women's rights, warned Shahroudi.

West now casts an instrumental and economic look on females, he said adding, "We should not be deceived by these false propaganda and let the lofty status of women in Islam being shattered."
http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/line-24/0707030526192710.htm

:suspicious4: :suspicious4: :suspicious4:



Attack on women NGOs is bad thing. I saw in my country so many good things done by women safe house organization.

[Artystone]

http://server32.irna.com/filesystem/07/07/03/386219-49-18_n.jpg



Islam underlines that both male and female enjoy equal rights, he stated.


http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/line-24/0707030526192710.htm

And yet they must be covered in the streets...:mad:

[payam]

They are not covered in society,just thier body is covered.and this is one of her rights.
The first step to keep women equal with men is to erase the sexual imagination of her in society.The hijab itself means cover,so if the woman cover her body with good dresses,she'll have the others respect of looking..

[payam]

West now casts an instrumental and economic look on females, he said adding,

I dont know what he meant by this a last sentence,but everybody in society has a economic rule,maybe he meant using women in advertisments and ects....

[Shahab-3]

What a double standard! I wonder how Mr. Shahroudi would respond to Shirin Ebadi? Pls ask him her questions!

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=14800&highlight=shirin+ebadi

[payam]

Mr shahab,dont send a link in 100 threads and dont spam.
Also i answered her,if she has any more question i'm here....

[payam]

:suspicious4: :suspicious4: :suspicious4:



Attack on women NGOs is bad thing. I saw in my country so many good things done by women safe house organization.

You misunderstood him.he is not against NGOs.he just meant bad usages of women for economical goals.

[yingyang]

They are not covered in society,just thier body is covered.and this is one of her rights.
The first step to keep women equal with men is to erase the sexual imagination of her in society.The hijab itself means cover,so if the woman cover her body with good dresses,she'll have the others respect of looking..


good point.


i don't think a woman should have to dress in a winter coat in mid summer, just because men can't contain their lustful desires. on the flip side, they should dress respectful and mindful of mens weakness. women shouldn't taunt and dress like half naked prostitutes as they do in the west, with their boobs hanging out, their butt crack showing, and tiny shorts all the way up to where the legs meet the fold of their butt cheek.

they get treated like objects, used and abused because of that.... and it's really the reaping of what they have sown. in a perfect world the treatment would be different. but the world isn't perfect. we shouldn't try to act and pretend it is, we need to carry ourselves accordingly.

although the porn industry sure likes and promotes that mind set. they have no problem degrading society, family life, and exploiting women to promote their gains.


just my opinion.

[Oluf]

So woman should not dress like prostitutes with boobs hanging out… OK! However why can they not dress just like anybody? To be quite honest I do not see a “sex object” when I happen to see a woman’s hair or shoulders. Why packing everything in under scarf’s and ample clothing that have to go all the way to the knees? Why forcing women to dress up like a polar expedition when it is +45º outside?

It is very simple; because Islam says so (however we are not really sure when and how) and there is nothing that can be done about that.

Even if it is not at all my opinion; one can sometimes wonder if it is simply because Muslim men are not so strong (against temptations) or just mentally weak and therefore feels the need to oppress the women in general. Maybe it is just that Muslim men are afraid of intelligent beautiful women and this is the only way they can manage them.
I do not think this is true, but it makes many people wonder about the strength of Muslim men.

[Vladimir80]

Even if it is not at all my opinion; one can sometimes wonder if it is simply because Muslim men are not so strong (against temptations) or just mentally weak and therefore feels the need to oppress the women in general. Maybe it is just that Muslim men are afraid of intelligent beautiful women and this is the only way they can manage them.
I do not think this is true, but it makes many people wonder about the strength of Muslim men.

I have the feeling you aren't going to be here long with that attitude... :roflmao3:

[payam]

So woman should not dress like prostitutes with boobs hanging out… OK!
Yes,ok
However why can they not dress just like anybody?
why can't?she can
she can dress like a true woman
To be quite honest I do not see a “sex object” when I happen to see a woman’s hair or shoulders.
Cause this is what you saw for years and you get use to it,but i know many guys doing sex with thier hands after seeing such simple images.....

Why packing everything in under scarf’s and ample clothing that have to go all the way to the knees? Why forcing women to dress up like a polar expedition when it is +45º outside?

I didn't understand what kind of dress you meant,but many hijab models that i know are so esay for woman to wear and it's not hot for them even in summer.
i'm going to post a thread,with many hijab model pics,and you'll see
Also,the woman's cleanliness of soul and body needs a price,and even if in past it was hard for women to wear such things,they were doing it for themself.
yes,it is so more better for me to go to my office with my home clothes,but it's not allowed cuase of protecting my true personality.

It is very simple; because Islam says so (however we are not really sure when and how) and there is nothing that can be done about that.
No,god says so.the creator of women,to protect her.

Even if it is not at all my opinion; one can sometimes wonder if it is simply because Muslim men are not so strong (against temptations) or just mentally weak and therefore feels the need to oppress the women in general. Maybe it is just that Muslim men are afraid of intelligent beautiful women and this is the only way they can manage them. do not think this is true, but it makes many people wonder about the strength of Muslim men.

A muslim men who is aware of islam is more strong than anyone.
i were in many countries,have many friends,they were alot chances for me to sleep with many girls,but with 24 years old of age i had no sex,and no bad looking to a female.and this is a fact in my mind.
everybody can have it with his wife/husband,but not illegal ones.
So im a simple muslim guy and as you i'm more strong than you westerns.
And please go read the avarage age of western boys and girls who had sex and loosed thier cleanliness.it's about 18-23,and it's so common in west.
Now you are talking about being strong?
and when i look to my people here,i see they are in majority good and clean.and enough strong.
99% of iranian girls never lose thier virginity,except when they are amrried,and this shows you how much strong iranian women and men are.

Islam laws is for every time and every people,.we are person to person diffrent with diffrent backgrounds.

[Oluf]

Yes,ok
why can't?she can
she can dress like a true woman.

Well… What if one just let a woman dress like a human being? Or actually quite more correctly; let her dress as she wants.
A true woman is beautiful when she is dressed the way she feels like and when she is comfortable in her clothes. Why a woman should feel uncomfortable to be a “true woman”?

Cause this is what you saw for years and you get use to it,but i know many guys doing sex with thier hands after seeing such simple images.....

Ouupsss… We are now back to the problem with those people that thinks that Muslim men are lacking mental strength. You know many people (not me) would consider it completely crazy if somebody felt the need to masturbate just because they where able to see a woman’s hair, shoulders or be able to determinate if she is a 36B or D by the shape of her clothes.

I didn't understand what kind of dress you meant,but many hijab models that i know are so esay for woman to wear and it's not hot for them even in summer.
i'm going to post a thread,with many hijab model pics,and you'll see
Also,the woman's cleanliness of soul and body needs a price,and even if in past it was hard for women to wear such things,they were doing it for themself.

OK but why don’t we let the women decide themselves if it is hot or not for them in the summer?
I have no problem with a woman wearing a hijab if she feels comfortable with that, and I even think it is a good thing if it can make herself feel better both in her mind and soul.
But when so many women do not know better than to protect themselves that the Police are obliged to make special patrols and arrest theses ignorant souls, some people (not me) would consider that there is a real problem.

yes,it is so more better for me to go to my office with my home clothes,but it's not allowed cuase of protecting my true personality.

Do you need clothes to protect your true personality!!!!? Ohh… OK

No,god says so.the creator of women,to protect her.

Really… OK but many people are having difficulties in understanding when God said that woman should carry a hijab.

A muslim men who is aware of islam is more strong than anyone.

Why do you say this? You have no whatsoever proof over pretending to be stronger (physically or mentally) than me or anybody else for that sake. Some people (not me) would actually say that that is completely pretentious BS. The people that have to tell the world how strong they are, are often very weak and lacking the smallest strength.


i were in many countries,have many friends,they were alot chances for me to sleep with many girls,but with 24 years old of age i had no sex,and no bad looking to a female.and this is a fact in my mind.
everybody can have it with his wife/husband,but not illegal ones.
So im a simple muslim guy and as you i'm more strong than you westerns.
And please go read the avarage age of western boys and girls who had sex and loosed thier cleanliness.it's about 18-23,and it's so common in west.
Now you are talking about being strong?
and when i look to my people here,i see they are in majority good and clean.and enough strong.
99% of iranian girls never lose thier virginity,except when they are amrried,and this shows you how much strong iranian women and men are

Islam laws is for every time and every people,.we are person to person diffrent with diffrent backgrounds.

Yes you are right but unfortunately replying to the side of my comment. The wish of chastity are common in many religions and I think that it is a very honorable thing to do, but it is not related to strength, it is related to a culture and a religious faith and I am not able to see the connection with the perceived oppression of women by imposing a dress code.

It is highly unfortunate that so many people (not me) think that the Islamic dress code is just a way of oppressing women and it also unfortunate that you as a Muslim is not able to explain to me (poor ignorant soul) why it is like this.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

http://server32.irna.com/filesystem/07/07/03/386219-49-18_n.jpg

Judiciary Chief Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi said on Tuesday that the alleged defenders of women's rights in the West have betrayed women the most.

Shahroudi made the remarks in a meeting with a number of female activists at universities, judiciary and Majlis.

"Islam has given the highest status to women and strongly supports their rights, dignity and their social status," he said.

"The Western advocates of women's rights mainly in the contemporary era have committed the severest betrayal of the rights of women," he said.

In Islam, Fatemeh Zahra (SA), the daughter of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), is a model for high status of women among Muslims who helped the Prophet accomplish his significant role, he said.

Fatemeh Zahra (SA) is an unprecedented model of a complete human being who thoroughly demonstrated significant role of females in Islam, he said.

Due to interaction of natural and inborn characteristics of women and men in their social life in the West, women's status has been harmed and resulted inn the dissolution of families and disrespect, he said.

Islam underlines that both male and female enjoy equal rights, he stated.

Islamic societies should not be deceived by lies and fabricated mottoes of the so-called advocates of women's rights, warned Shahroudi.

West now casts an instrumental and economic look on females, he said adding, "We should not be deceived by these false propaganda and let the lofty status of women in Islam being shattered."
http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/line-24/0707030526192710.htm
LOL, this guy fails to outline in what way women are opressed in the west (or rather, more opressed than men).They are not covered in society,just thier body is covered.and this is one of her rights.
The first step to keep women equal with men is to erase the sexual imagination of her in society.The hijab itself means cover,so if the woman cover her body with good dresses,she'll have the others respect of looking..And what happens when she chooses not to be covered?

[mustavaris]

Regardless of some very sound arguments that support hijab et al,as a whole and esp. when enforced on a society, these rules are tools of oppression.

Individual cases are another matter though.

[yingyang]

i were in many countries,have many friends,they were alot chances for me to sleep with many girls,but with 24 years old of age i had no sex,and no bad looking to a female.and this is a fact in my mind.
everybody can have it with his wife/husband,but not illegal ones.
So im a simple muslim guy and as you i'm more strong than you westerns.
And please go read the avarage age of western boys and girls who had sex and loosed thier cleanliness.it's about 18-23,and it's so common in west.



good man! your earn much respect for that.

and the age for westerners?......... lol try many get their start at 12 - 14! many, many more before 18! "cleanliness" of the american male or female is less and less common.

[Shahab-3]

Regardless of some very sound arguments that support hijab et al,as a whole and esp. when enforced on a society, these rules are tools of oppression.

Individual cases are another matter though.

Well said! :bouncy4:

[mustavaris]

Payam: if the Muslim men are so strong how on Earth you explain the fact that they are over presented in rapes and other sexual crimes, all over the Europe, and I do not mean just some small overpresentation, but a large margin?

[In Finland foreigners form little more than 2% of the population, minority of them come from Muslim countries while around 28% of the rapes are commited by foreigners, among whom those who come from Muslim countries are overpresented?]

It is because they are not taught to respect women who wear what they want to wear. It is because they do not have healthy sexuality and they cannot express their sexuality in decent way.

I think that right to choose sexual behaviour as long as it doesnt hurt anyone is the way to go. Even though I have never ever had slept with a person with whom I havent wanted to stay rest of my life, I dont bother myself with people who have one night stands.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

It should be noted, that as far as dress codes are concerned, Europe is equally opressive toward men and women. You're not allowed to be in a public without covering your genitals, and as a woman your mammalian glands, except on specifically designated beaches.

[Black_zero]

Yes,ok

why can't?she can
she can dress like a true woman

Cause this is what you saw for years and you get use to it,but i know many guys doing sex with thier hands after seeing such simple images.....



I didn't understand what kind of dress you meant,but many hijab models that i know are so esay for woman to wear and it's not hot for them even in summer.
i'm going to post a thread,with many hijab model pics,and you'll see
Also,the woman's cleanliness of soul and body needs a price,and even if in past it was hard for women to wear such things,they were doing it for themself.
yes,it is so more better for me to go to my office with my home clothes,but it's not allowed cuase of protecting my true personality.


No,god says so.the creator of women,to protect her.



A muslim men who is aware of islam is more strong than anyone.
i were in many countries,have many friends,they were alot chances for me to sleep with many girls,but with 24 years old of age i had no sex,and no bad looking to a female.and this is a fact in my mind.
everybody can have it with his wife/husband,but not illegal ones.
So im a simple muslim guy and as you i'm more strong than you westerns.
And please go read the avarage age of western boys and girls who had sex and loosed thier cleanliness.it's about 18-23,and it's so common in west.
Now you are talking about being strong?
and when i look to my people here,i see they are in majority good and clean.and enough strong.
99% of iranian girls never lose thier virginity,except when they are amrried,and this shows you how much strong iranian women and men are.

Islam laws is for every time and every people,.we are person to person diffrent with diffrent backgrounds.


YES 99% iranian girls not lose their virgnity through rapes but temporary merriage !!!
where is written about temporary merriage in islam ?
khamanie is no more islamic ...
irani govt allow the temporary merriage... for sex !

[payam]

Sorry all brothers:)i was on a trip:Dit seems anti islamics were so active these days:Drealy this forum needs some 5 people more like me.
Well… What if one just let a woman dress like a human being? Or actually quite more correctly; let her dress as she wants.
A true woman is beautiful when she is dressed the way she feels like and when she is comfortable in her clothes. Why a woman should feel uncomfortable to be a “true woman”?

Yes she can exaclly dress likes what she wants'but as i said there is a limitation.just as every where we have it.
you must wear enough and you can wear beautiul and comfortable things.

Ouupsss… We are now back to the problem with those people that thinks that Muslim men are lacking mental strength. You know many people (not me) would consider it completely crazy if somebody felt the need to masturbate just because they where able to see a woman’s hair, shoulders or be able to determinate if she is a 36B or D by the shape of her clothes.
why playing with words?
muslim,chritistians and all other names are just some words.
they are so many people that are muslim thier ID cards,but they are not mentaly with that.
as i said we all are same,all human beings,so Dont mix genetic with religion.

OK but why don’t we let the women decide themselves if it is hot or not for them in the summer?
I have no problem with a woman wearing a hijab if she feels comfortable with that, and I even think it is a good thing if it can make herself feel better both in her mind and soul.
But when so many women do not know better than to protect themselves that the Police are obliged to make special patrols and arrest theses ignorant souls, some people (not me) would consider that there is a real problem.

I said so many examples during my posts.
yes being comfortable is a real fact,and they are alot hijab models that prepare it for them.
But as i said there is a limitation.
yes i'm more comfortable to go to my office with no clothes,but it's just crazy and i have no right to do it.
you attack your personality with thebad way of wearing.
unfortunalty so many women are not aware of thier real rights.

Do you need clothes to protect your true personality!!!!? Ohh… OK

having bad dresses/clothes , attack your true personality.

For ex just imagine 1 guy,who didn't have a showe for one mounth,what do you think about him?somtimes the outer things are signs of insiders.

Really… OK but many people are having difficulties in understanding when God said that woman should carry a hijab.


From the first day that human being had enough realization to understand.


Why do you say this? You have no whatsoever proof over pretending to be stronger (physically or mentally) than me or anybody else for that sake. Some people (not me) would actually say that that is completely pretentious BS. The people that have to tell the world how strong they are, are often very weak and lacking the smallest strength.

lol

see,you misunderstood me cuase of your own attitude.
as i said you claimed that muslim men has diffrent genetic,as i said you its wrong,we are all same,just the way of our thinking make us diffrent.our attitue.

but Islam can helps everyone to make him/herself strong,even forgeting his own life if it be necessarly.in the way of the lord.
western scienters see human being as some animals!just some smart animals!
so some worst like true personality of human beings and shame has no meaning for them.

Yes you are right but unfortunately replying to the side of my comment. The wish of chastity are common in many religions and I think that it is a very honorable thing to do, but it is not related to strength, it is related to a culture and a religious faith and I am not able to see the connection with the perceived oppression of women by imposing a dress code.

It is highly unfortunate that so many people (not me) think that the Islamic dress code is just a way of oppressing women and it also unfortunate that you as a Muslim is not able to explain to me (poor ignorant soul) why it is like this.

You are not able to see,cuase you want to take all things easy.
I had one australian friend,he said me :you are crazy.our rules are just simple,we never create stupid red lines for ourselfs.
Well,Just look at your body,and it's details.did god create it simple?it has lot ingredients,a guy for getting aware of one of it,must go to universtiries for years.
The mental side of human being is complex as same,
The wish of chastity is just one simple side of human being's nature.that's why it was always btw all diffrent religions and cultures .if you want to know why you must be aware of human beings.

Anyway i said you in my posts that why islam wants hijab for females,no need to reapet.

[payam]

LOL, this guy fails to outline in what way women are opressed in the west (or rather, more opressed than men).And what happens when she chooses not to be covered?

Well shahrodi just tried to talk about a bad culture.
I always saw westerns talking about thier girls when they want to encourage you for traveling there.so it seems for them females are like present sent or brought by a traveller.:laugh4:

-----------------

she can choose diffrent models of dresses,diffrent colors and ects,but all must be able to cover her body.
and you asked why,i answered befor why.

[payam]

Regardless of some very sound arguments that support hijab et al,as a whole and esp. when enforced on a society, these rules are tools of oppression.

Individual cases are another matter though.

tools of oppression.?yes,encouraging woman to not wearing enough and to dictate her this is freedom for her is just a way for men to exploit women.

[Prinz Eugen]

tools of oppression.?yes,encouraging woman to not wearing enough and to dictate her this is freedom for her is just a way for men to exploit women.

Freedom is when you can chose to cover your body or not. Simple and not mutch to debate about...

[payam]

Payam: if the Muslim men are so strong how on Earth you explain the fact that they are over presented in rapes and other sexual crimes, all over the Europe, and I do not mean just some small overpresentation, but a large margin?

They are rapers everywhere.
that good brother claimed that muslim men are not strong by genetic,i just said it's all wrong.first of all when i look around i see myself and my friends all clean of such crimes or illegal connections.
So we are strong enough.also If you make you attitude islamic,you'll be strong against such bad behaives.

[In Finland foreigners form little more than 2% of the population, minority of them come from Muslim countries while around 28% of the rapes are commited by foreigners, among whom those who come from Muslim countries are overpresented?]

It is because they are not taught to respect women who wear what they want to wear. It is because they do not have healthy sexuality and they cannot express their sexuality in decent way.

well first of all i was talknig about illegal sexs,means having sex connectons without being spouse
cuase i know it as such dirty culture,i never marry to a girl whom slept with alot men.
A true guy enver act like this,selling het/him self to others without any price and just for 1 minute stupid fun.

think that right to choose sexual behaviour as long as it doesnt hurt anyone is the way to go. Even though I have never ever had slept with a person with whom I havent wanted to stay rest of my life, I dont bother myself with people who have one night stands.

you know it yourself than many people do it when they are young in europ and spacially in usa.

you are one,so just have it with you first and last one.

[payam]

It should be noted, that as far as dress codes are concerned, Europe is equally opressive toward men and women. You're not allowed to be in a public without covering your genitals, and as a woman your mammalian glands, except on specifically designated beaches.

Well,but your friends are saying that accoarding to the freedom and democray(!) they have right to do what they want every where.

Also i said befor i'm against extrime models of hijab like veil too...

[payam]

Freedom is when you can chose to cover your body or not. Simple and not mutch to debate about...

There is somthing we all are calling : reverence and disgrace

[payam]

YES 99% iranian girls not lose their virgnity through rapes but temporary merriage !!!
where is written about temporary merriage in islam ?
khamanie is no more islamic ...
irani govt allow the temporary merriage... for sex !

Here is iran.and not pakistan
also one stupid guy said that there must be a temporary merriage,but all here f** him:roflmao3:from governmentst and womens supporter organizations.
i must mention you that this guy even cant calculate 2+2.and there are alot funny stories for him...anyway he went back on one's word ,cuase there were a huge pressur on him.
anyway here we have freedom of speech.

[Oluf]

Yes she can exaclly dress likes what she wants'but as i said there is a limitation.just as every where we have it.
you must wear enough and you can wear beautiul and comfortable things..

So in reality it is “just” a problem of limitation?
I do not agree with that; it is obvious that if in 2007 (or 1386 if you prefer) women cannot wear normal clothing just because that can cause incontrollable passions within the male population, it is the male population that have a problem and not the women.



why playing with words?
muslim,chritistians and all other names are just some words.
they are so many people that are muslim thier ID cards,but they are not mentaly with that.
as i said we all are same,all human beings,so Dont mix genetic with religion.


You are not replying to my comment but changing completely subject by talking about a not related issue. The rules you are talking about are Muslim rules (female dress code).
I do not care if the insane idiot that feels the need to masturbate if he sees a woman’s hair or shoulders is Christian, Muslim, or whatever, the point is that he is an insane idiot and it is him that should be punished and not the poor woman.



I said so many examples during my posts.
yes being comfortable is a real fact,and they are alot hijab models that prepare it for them.
But as i said there is a limitation.
yes i'm more comfortable to go to my office with no clothes,but it's just crazy and i have no right to do it.
you attack your personality with thebad way of wearing.
unfortunalty so many women are not aware of thier real rights.

Why must there be a limitation that the women themselves are not comfortable with?
Most women are perfectly aware of their “rights” and they are in reality no rights.
It is completely wrong to believe that the women must be “protected” (from who?) and that they must wear dark clothes, cover their shape, and not use makeup.
Women are just as intelligent as men (if not more) and there is no whatsoever reason to impose them a dress code, especially a dress code that is in reality just a way of oppressing women.

having bad dresses/clothes , attack your true personality.

For ex just imagine 1 guy,who didn't have a showe for one mounth,what do you think about him?somtimes the outer things are signs of insiders.

No that is not what we where talking about (once more you are dodging the subject). I am perfectly happy with an idea that you want to “display” your personality via your clothing and that you can give a better or worse “image” by the way you are dressing, but if you want to protect your real personality via clothing, it means that your real personality is not so good. I do not at all think that about you and consider that is was more a language misunderstanding.



From the first day that human being had enough realization to understand.

Hæææ?? That is a complete non reply to a simple question.
You cannot change the reality by simply pretending that it is not there. I know that it is a common tactic among yours, but this time it is not going to work.
Please answer my question, or if you do not know the reply, just say I do not know, however please refrain from replying with foggy misconceptions that have no whatsoever sense.


see,you misunderstood me cuase of your own attitude.
as i said you claimed that muslim men has diffrent genetic,as i said you its wrong,we are all same,just the way of our thinking make us diffrent.our attitue.

When on earth did I say that Muslims have a different genetic? That is a completely stupid suggestion.

but Islam can helps everyone to make him/herself strong,even forgeting his own life if it be necessarly.in the way of the lord.
western scienters see human being as some animals!just some smart animals!
so some worst like true personality of human beings and shame has no meaning for them.

Yes Islam helps, Christianity helps, pop star adoration helps, whatever helps as long as you believe in the story. As we can see it even helps you in to the strange belief that as a Muslim you are stronger than others. This is just pure nonsense.

[payam]

So in reality it is “just” a problem of limitation?
I do not agree with that; it is obvious that if in 2007 (or 1386 if you prefer) women cannot wear normal clothing just because that can cause incontrollable passions within the male population, it is the male population that have a problem and not the women.


When they wear like a woman,they weared normaly.yes we are living in 2007,so we must wear enough and modest not with naked body just like a cave-kwelller
dont forget we are living in society,they can do what ever they want in thier homes,but out they must respect to others and themselfs.

You are not replying to my comment but changing completely subject by talking about a not related issue. The rules you are talking about are Muslim rules (female dress code).
I do not care if the insane idiot that feels the need to masturbate if he sees a woman’s hair or shoulders is Christian, Muslim, or whatever, the point is that he is an insane idiot and it is him that should be punished and not the poor woman.

Somtimes i reply off topic cuase you get so off topic yourself.
well listern poor friend,as i said in my perviews posts,both women and men must behaive,not just 1 side.

No that is not what we where talking about (once more you are dodging the subject). I am perfectly happy with an idea that you want to “display” your personality via your clothing and that you can give a better or worse “image” by the way you are dressing, but if you want to protect your real personality via clothing, it means that your real personality is not so good. I do not at all think that about you and consider that is was more a language misunderstanding.

clothes are not a way to create persinality.but it's a way to protect it.
Anyway that's it!!:)i'm just reapeting some facts..lol

Hæææ?? That is a complete non reply to a simple question.
You cannot change the reality by simply pretending that it is not there. I know that it is a common tactic among yours, but this time it is not going to work.
Please answer my question, or if you do not know the reply, just say I do not know, however please refrain from replying with foggy misconceptions that have no whatsoever sense.

My answer was so clear,and it was not a non reply.
When the culture of a society improves to a good leave of realization ,they will understand that human beings are not animal,so must wear enough.

When on earth did I say that Muslims have a different genetic? That is a completely stupid suggestion.

You said muslim men is not strong,so you are creating a group and make them diffrent from others, being strong is usually mentaly,but from your sentences i realized that you have sotmhing to do with genetic.

Yes Islam helps, Christianity helps, pop star adoration helps, whatever helps as long as you believe in the story. As we can see it even helps you in to the strange belief that as a Muslim you are stronger than others. This is just pure nonsense.

Well,the only reason that human beings have some words like : self - denial or sense or reverence and respect and ects is that we have a brain and mind.
So here i have nothing to do with body,but a muslim guy who is aware of true islam is strong as hell.even if he be in sin city,he'll be clean for ever.that's all and reality.now belive it or not.

[Oluf]

When they wear like a woman,they weared normaly.yes we are living in 2007,so we must wear enough and modest not with naked body just like a cave-kwelller
dont forget we are living in society,they can do what ever they want in thier homes,but out they must respect to others and themselfs..

Well that is the exact problem; the respect of others.
You are not able to respect enough women and are therefore imposing (and by imposing one oppresses and disrespects other human beings) a completely ridiculous dress code.
If you cannot leave your home for being scared of seeing a woman’s hair or shoulders there is something fundamentally wrong. Really…!! If you can see the woman of your close family without hijab (hence hair and shoulders) what is really the problem of seeing another unknown woman in the street?
It is a very good thing to show respect, but in general it is requested that one starts to give respect before imposing it on others.


Somtimes i reply off topic cuase you get so off topic yourself.
well listern poor friend,as i said in my perviews posts,both women and men must behaive,not just 1 side.

OK Therefore you can now accept that it is completely insane to feel the need to masturbate (whatever religion) if one sees a woman’s hair or shoulders and that this can not at all be considered as a valid reason for imposing hijab on females.


clothes are not a way to create persinality.but it's a way to protect it.
Anyway that's it!!:)i'm just reapeting some facts..lol

I am ready to accept your opinion in this matter.



My answer was so clear,and it was not a non reply.
When the culture of a society improves to a good leave of realization ,they will understand that human beings are not animal,so must wear enough.

What is enough and who decides what is enough, and when was this decided?

You said muslim men is not strong,so you are creating a group and make them diffrent from others, being strong is usually mentaly,but from your sentences i realized that you have sotmhing to do with genetic.

This is a very interesting deduction
Because I said that I did not see why Muslims should be stronger than others, you have allowed yourself to decide that I consider that Muslims are genetically different from other human beings??? I hope you are able to understand that this doesn’t make sense.

Well,the only reason that human beings have some words like : self - denial or sense or reverence and respect and ects is that we have a brain and mind.
So here i have nothing to do with body,but a muslim guy who is aware of true islam is strong as hell.even if he be in sin city,he'll be clean for ever.that's all and reality.now belive it or not.

Dear Mr. Payam, I have no whatsoever problem with that by believing in this or that faith makes people believe that they are strong. I even think it is a good thing. What I have a problem with is when the same people (whatever religion) starts to believe that they are stronger than the other religions and starts to impose laws oppressing those that are physically not so strong (women).

[payam]

Well that is the exact problem; the respect of others.
You are not able to respect enough women and are therefore imposing (and by imposing one oppresses and disrespects other human beings) a completely ridiculous dress code.

Well,the problem is so simple to undesrtand
just imagine your enter office without clothes,so your boss will warn you about your way of wearing.and you are not allowed to stay.
He didn't disrespects you with this,cuase you broke the respect first with your irrational job,the respect to others,and also youself.
Also,wearing enough in islam is not just for women,it's for men also.many laws about it.
they must both behaive.and this is thier right.
So this is alot diffrent with oppressing somone,cuase it's her/his own rights and The right of society and people.
As i said they can wear what they want in thier homes,but out of your home you are in society,you have connection with others and you must be carefull of your doings.

OK Therefore you can now accept that it is completely insane to feel the need to masturbate (whatever religion) if one sees a woman’s hair or shoulders and that this can not at all be considered as a valid reason for imposing hijab on females.

people are diffrent with each other,person to person.
as i said maybe you are not like this cuase of getting use to this,but they are alot that feeling the need to masturbate if they see a woman’s hair or shoulders .cuase it could be alot incitor for them.
Also,women are diffrent with each other also,some women's body is even hatefull to look:D,but some ,on the contrary.

So the laws are for all persons,in any situation,in any time during the history.in the past and futuer.
as i said islam allows having new models and what you call fassion.but in a rationnal limitation.

What is enough and who decides what is enough, and when was this decided?

The enough thing is to wear enough,to cover the important parts of body that could to instigate a male or female.it's for both men and women.
and god,your creator decidied.cuase he is the creator of human and he know all sides of him/her.
and he decided this from first day he created human being.but human being was not able to understand the reality of it for many parts of history,cuase of the low level of culture and realization,But i think in todays world all are able if they want.if they want to pass thier untrue wishes.
The lord in holy quran says:
"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty, and not to display their adornment except that which appears ordinarily thereof, and to draw their veils over their necks and bosoms.." (Sura An-Noor 24:31)

This is a very interesting deduction
Because I said that I did not see why Muslims should be stronger than others, you have allowed yourself to decide that I consider that Muslims are genetically different from other human beings??? I hope you are able to understand that this doesn’t make sense.

A true muslims should be stronger against such things cuase the islamic laws of god draws the limitation and shoulds and shouldn'ts.So he can move with aware mind and will be victorius against them.

Dear Mr. Payam, I have no whatsoever problem with that by believing in this or that faith makes people believe that they are strong. I even think it is a good thing. What I have a problem with is when the same people (whatever religion) starts to believe that they are stronger than the other religions and starts to impose laws oppressing those that are physically not so strong (women).

well i never take apart in such chats,that who is strong and who is not.or which religion is better.
Also what we have here is inserting laws to defeand women not attacking them.
if we wanted to impose them or exploitation them,we could easly tell them to come to street with naked body and let men do what ever they want with them!
but what we have here is drawing a red line for both to respect each other and never doing transgression to each other's rights.

[Shahab-3]

This is a good read.

http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/essay-01.html

[Oluf]

Well,the problem is so simple to undesrtand
just imagine your enter office without clothes,so your boss will warn you about your way of wearing.and you are not allowed to stay.
He didn't disrespects you with this,cuase you broke the respect first with your irrational job,the respect to others,and also youself.
Also,wearing enough in islam is not just for women,it's for men also.many laws about it.
they must both behaive.and this is thier right.
So this is alot diffrent with oppressing somone,cuase it's her/his own rights and The right of society and people.
As i said they can wear what they want in thier homes,but out of your home you are in society,you have connection with others and you must be carefull of your doings.

No it doesn’t work like that. You cannot explain something by telling a story about something that has nothing to do with the subject.
Nobody is going to walk naked in to their offices, the matter is if one should impose an oppressing cress code upon women (and have the fanatic audacity to tell her that it is her right) just for the sake of oppressing them. I know very well that there is also a dress code for men, but by some strange coincidence this male dress code is not at all the same a for the women.
You are perfectly right that when in public one must behave according to public laws and respect others, but should we oppress 50% of the population just because some few are afraid of women or are not able to control their basic instincts?


people are diffrent with each other,person to person.
as i said maybe you are not like this cuase of getting use to this,but they are alot that feeling the need to masturbate if they see a woman’s hair or shoulders .cuase it could be alot incitor for them.
Also,women are diffrent with each other also,some women's body is even hatefull to look:D,but some ,on the contrary

Well if there are a lot of men that feels the need to masturbate if the see a woman’s hair and shoulders it the men that should be punished for inappropriate behavior and not the women.

So the laws are for all persons,in any situation,in any time during the history.in the past and futuer.
as i said islam allows having new models and what you call fassion.but in a rationnal limitation.

That is not a rational limitation; it is pure oppression by people that are afraid of intelligent and beautiful women.


The enough thing is to wear enough,to cover the important parts of body that could to instigate a male or female.it's for both men and women.
and god,your creator decidied.cuase he is the creator of human and he know all sides of him/her.
and he decided this from first day he created human being.but human being was not able to understand the reality of it for many parts of history,cuase of the low level of culture and realization,But i think in todays world all are able if they want.if they want to pass thier untrue wishes.
The lord in holy quran says:
"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty, and not to display their adornment except that which appears ordinarily thereof, and to draw their veils over their necks and bosoms.." (Sura An-Noor 24:31)

So let’s the believing women manage themselves to guard their modesty and lower their veil. Why should it be the mission of a few do interpret Gods word? Anyway if Good wanted women to carry a Hijab he would have had them born with it.

A true muslims should be stronger against such things cuase the islamic laws of god draws the limitation and shoulds and shouldn'ts.So he can move with aware mind and will be victorius against them.

What are you talking about? Do you really think that it is enough to give out some pre-digested religious phrases to stop the rest of the world from thinking?
I will do the same and we will see how it gets.



well i never take apart in such chats,that who is strong and who is not.or which religion is better.
Also what we have here is inserting laws to defeand women not attacking them.
if we wanted to impose them or exploitation them,we could easly tell them to come to street with naked body and let men do what ever they want with them!
but what we have here is drawing a red line for both to respect each other and never doing transgression to each other's rights


No religion is better than another (you see we can agree about something) and discussing different religions is pointless.

There in no question about having the women to come naked to the streets and to exploit them, it is a question about giving them freedom so that they can live normal lives.

You can say 1000 times that these laws are for protecting the women, but it is not because of that it is going to become the truth. These laws are for oppressing women (the proof is that the police are arresting them) and that is a fact and a reality. It is not enough to pretend something to make it a reality. Even if you want to you cannot change reality by pretending something else.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

she can choose diffrent models of dresses,diffrent colors and ects,but all must be able to cover her body.
and you asked why,i answered befor why.So basically you admit that they are opressed in some way. Thanks.

Well,but your friends are saying that accoarding to the freedom and democray(!) they have right to do what they want every where.Which friends? I agree, if a state really claims to ensure freedom of the people who live within it, it should allow them to go about their business naked, or wearing a burkha or anything in between. Anything else is hypocrisy.Well that is the exact problem; the respect of others.
You are not able to respect enough women and are therefore imposing (and by imposing one oppresses and disrespects other human beings) a completely ridiculous dress code.Exactly. The logical error that lawmakers commit when they say "this or that should be forbidden because it offends me." is that those who have a property that would be forbidden could reply "Your laws should be forbidden because your disrespect for my ways offend me."

[payam]

No it doesn’t work like that. You cannot explain something by telling a story about something that has nothing to do with the subject.

And you can't change the topic with repeating this.

Nobody is going to walk naked in to their offices, the matter is if one should impose an oppressing cress code upon women (and have the fanatic audacity to tell her that it is her right) just for the sake of oppressing them. I know very well that there is also a dress code for men, but by some strange coincidence this male dress code is not at all the same a for the women.

oppress:to rule sb in a way that allows the people no freedom,to control sb in unjust way.
Freedom:the state of being free,not bieng in prison or under control of sb.
Just look at 2 meaning of thouse words.
Freedom has negative and postivie meaning.
If you be free to do what ever you want,so you are living in freedom.
so maybe i want to kill you tommorow,and it's my freedom.!!
maybe tommorow i want to destroy and burn your home,and it's my right.and you have no right to be oppressor to me!!
these are some examples,jsut like the example of office.you must understand that there are some laws that get created to protect the permanent of family and society.
So dont repeat oppressor oppressor for me.there is no wrong job here,there is a true rule about wearing,and that is for all.here is not cave.
Also:you realy try to tell me that you are the protector of women's right.so please tell me why you said this:
I know very well that there is also a dress code for men, but by some strange coincidence this male dress code is not at all the same a for the women.

it's exaclly a racist term.and means: women is human just when she wear like men!!! if the women wants to be in normal level they must be like men!!!
the women dress is diffrent,cuase she is diffrrent.somthing you people can't undesrtand.
wearing just like a woman never make them lower than man.

Well if there are a lot of men that feels the need to masturbate if the see a woman’s hair and shoulders it the men that should be punished for inappropriate behavior and not the women.


it's not jsut the woman fault.but also it's not just the men fualt,it's a natural act of his body.you cant't force him to not feeling that!!
when you see food,somtimes you get hugary.that's that much simple.
In a true society both sides must behaive.

So let’s the believing women manage themselves to guard their modesty and lower their veil. Why should it be the mission of a few do interpret Gods word? Anyway if Good wanted women to carry a Hijab he would have had them born with it.

Realy the base of problem dont need any interpret.with closing your eyes in front of the untrue wishes you can easly understand.

What are you talking about? Do you really think that it is enough to give out some pre-digested religious phrases to stop the rest of the world from thinking?
I will do the same and we will see how it gets...
Do you understand what you say?
we invite you to think,not to reapet other's phrases.

There in no question about having the women to come naked to the streets and to exploit them, it is a question about giving them freedom so that they can live normal lives.

good sentences of you.
first of all here we were talking about hijab.
also if you are talking about freedom that is another issue.
but here women are living like others and i dont know if you have problem in geography,cuase here is islamic iran not talibanism afghanistan.
Anyway we never said we are prefect in human rights case,just as all countries .a third word country full of problems that needs to work on.

You can say 1000 times that these laws are for protecting the women, but it is not because of that it is going to become the truth. These laws are for oppressing women (the proof is that the police are arresting them) and that is a fact and a reality. It is not enough to pretend something to make it a reality. Even if you want to you cannot change reality by pretending something else.

Well,and you can never show your sentences as true with 100 times calling us opperessor.
police are arresting them?whom?please tell me!!
some mounth ago the police started a mission for the women who were like prostitues in street,and as i remember i talked about it enough that time in this forum.so no need to reapet.they were just some thousands women.nothing more.
yes,here we have our rules,and we have enough facts for ourself.
i know what is the problem here.That is just i ever explained enough about the hijab for you,so i'll do it within some hours in 1 another thread.

AND ALSO:
THE REALITY IS THAT WE ARE NOT LIVING IN STONE AGES:

http://i16.tinypic.com/541nqyq.jpg

So basically you admit that they are opressed in some way. Thanks.

yes,sb forced them to leave thier hijab and called it freedom for them!

Which friends? I agree, if a state really claims to ensure freedom of the people who live within it, it should allow them to go about their business naked, or wearing a burkha or anything in between. Anything else is hypocrisy.
yes,but by then there is a mad house for such guys.
I didn't know we are talking about living in jungle like animals...opps sorry
http://chdmuseum.nic.in/evolution_of_man/images/diorama_002_large.jpg

And you know,i'm free.., i just want to dance with my naked body in streets,doing urine and excrement on peoples faces and what ever i want,you know i'm free...we are free.....we love freedom freedom freedom
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/763220/2/istockphoto_763220_ugly_monkey.jpg
http://www.muralsforkids.com/images/JungleAnimalsBorder.jpg

[Prinz Eugen]

yes,sb forced them to leave thier hijab and called it freedom for them!


Out of curiosity : In witch country are women forced to leave their hijab?

[payam]

Out of curiosity : In witch country are women forced to leave their hijab?

Forcing doesnt mean puting gun on thier heads and tell them leave it!
forcing has alot ways,one of them is making pressur in diffrent ways.
for ex negative advertisments(itself has alot details),rejecting females with hijab in schools,and alot other ways that they are doing it well in west.It is kind of forcing.

[Prinz Eugen]

Forcing doesnt mean puting gun on thier heads and tell them leave it!
forcing has alot ways,one of them is makibng pressur in diffrent ways.
for ex negative advertisments,rejecting females with hijab in schools,and alot other ways that they are doing it well in west.It is kind of forcing.

Yeah, but not that type of "forcing" thats denys women the right to chose between hijab or no hijab; like in Iran.


Btw. Are women allowed to walk across street without hijab when wearing a wig in Iran?

[payam]

Yeah, but not that type of "forcing" thats denys women the right to chose between hijab or no hijab; like in Iran.


Btw. Are women allowed to walk across street without hijab when wearing a wib in Iran?

I have nothing to do with the types.

Also We all know your last question's answer.
and also majroity of iranian women wear hijab with thier own wish.
also we have rules here and here is not jungle.and also they are reasons for our rules that i explained and will explain in new thread:smile1:

[Prinz Eugen]

and also majroity of iranian women wear hijab with thier own wish.


And whats up with the "minority" of women that don't want to wear a hijab?

So are women allowed to walk in public without hijab when wearing a wig?
The wig would accomplish the same task as the hijab, wouldn't it?

[Artystone]

Btw. Are women allowed to walk across street without hijab when wearing a wib in Iran?

You meant wig, right? Hehe, good question, I've always wondered that myself!

[payam]

And whats up with the "minority" of women that don't want to wear a hijab?

So are women allowed to walk in public without hijab when wearing a wib?
The wib would accomplish the same task as the hijab, wouldn't it?

You know in islam minority and majority is not important,just the truth is important.
in a society majority can be in wrong or right,and miniorities can be in wrong or right.you must never judge with thier population.

The europian governments says that women are not allowed to have hijab in public cuase it's kind of speacial view of world(speacial weltanschauung).
Well,this is what we say also...we say your kind of wearing has some kind of speacial weltanschauung.
so the attitudes are diffrent.
but if you want me to mention facts and reasons,you must wait for my thread.im working:D

(i love it,alone in this forum ,facing with hundrerds anti islamics....:Di'm a hero lol (j/k))

[payam]

You meant wig, right? Hehe, good question, I've always wondered that myself!

lol.i was thinking what he was saying:biggrin1:i thought this is my english.
oh wig?scald-headed females can use wig and then put a hijab on it in iran :xmas_emot3:

[Prinz Eugen]

You meant wig, right? Hehe, good question, I've always wondered that myself!

Oh yes, that was a mistake. Thx.. edited it.

You know in islam minority and majority is not important,jsut the truth is important.
in a society majority can be in wrong or right,and miniorities can be in wrong or right.you must never judge with thier population.

And who says what the "truth" is?




The europian governments says that women are not allowed to have hijab in public cuase it's kind of speacial view of world(speacial weltanschauung).


Witch European government bans hijab in public?





but if you want me to mention facts and reasons,you must wait for my thread.im working:D

Looking forward..:)

[Prinz Eugen]

oh wig?scald-headed females can use wig and then put a hijab on it in iran :xmas_emot3:

Sorry for the wig/wib mistake... :wub2:
I think you misunderstud my question. I was not talking about scald-headed women, i meant would women be allowed to walk in public when covering their
hair with a WIG :) and not with a hijab.

[Shahab-3]

This is relevant to this discussion:

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?p=204799#post204799

[payam]

And who says what the "truth" is?

I dont know what you mean by this.the truth of wearing?well the answer is god.

Witch European government bans hijab in public?

some days ago one of denmark's goverments said that we must send the women with hijab to jail.!! nice news,day by day they are getting more mad against it.
and also in some countries like france hijab in educational sides is not allowed.
there is another undirect pressur on muslim's women.and that is by medias.kind of sick attacking.
-----------------------------
anyway It is just the start of it,they are to erase hijab from all around the eruop.cuase it's kind of islam's sign in europ.
But also i must mention this that i'm 100% against veil and even here we dont have anything like veil.it is we call ''chador'',the face is clear in ''chador''.

Looking forward...:)
Give me time;):D

This is relevant to this discussion:

http://www.irandefence.net/showthrea...799#post204799

I don't care what that moron minister says.

[payam]

Sorry for the wig/wib mistake... :wub2:
I think you misunderstud my question. I was not talking about scald-headed women, i meant would women be allowed to walk in public when covering their
hair with a WIG :) and not with a hijab.

No they are not allowed.wig has and natural hair both are same.somtimes the wigs are more sexy than your own hair.:)

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

yes,sb forced them to leave thier hijab and called it freedom for them!Forcing someone not to wear a hijab is as opressive as forcing them to do so.


yes,but by then there is a mad house for such guys.Why? Simply because you don't like their lifestyle?

And you know,i'm free.., i just want to dance with my naked body in streets,doing urine and excrement on peoples faces and what ever i want,you know i'm free...we are free.....we love freedom freedom freedomThrowing poo at people is hardly the same thing as choice of clothing (or lack thereof). If you cannot see the difference I'm done discussing this matter with you.

Again you have done nothing to refute my points and nothing to advance your own, except for straw-men arguments.
I don't care what that moron minister says.She doesn't say anything. She's dead because of oppressive scum.

[Oluf]

And you can't change the topic with repeating this.


OK do not worry I should be quite able to stay on topic.



oppress:to rule sb in a way that allows the people no freedom,to control sb in unjust way.
Freedom:the state of being free,not bieng in prison or under control of sb.
Just look at 2 meaning of thouse words.
Freedom has negative and postivie meaning.
If you be free to do what ever you want,so you are living in freedom.
so maybe i want to kill you tommorow,and it's my freedom.!!
maybe tommorow i want to destroy and burn your home,and it's my right.and you have no right to be oppressor to me!!
these are some examples,jsut like the example of office.you must understand that there are some laws that get created to protect the permanent of family and society.
So dont repeat oppressor oppressor for me.there is no wrong job here,there is a true rule about wearing,and that is for all.here is not cave.
Also:you realy try to tell me that you are the protector of women's right.so please tell me why you said this:

Exactly!! And when you deny the women to dress like they want (let’s not talk about all the other limitations) you are oppressing them. You see it is not so complicated.

Thank you for this good comparisons (killing somebody or burning down somebody’s house compared to wearing a hijab or not) it is obvious that you are having difficulties in seeing the smallest nuances, but it doesn’t really surprises me.
It is quite clear that in any society we need laws and rules in order to live in harmony together. However we do not need to cover our women in order to protect them from the hordes of fanatical and sexually frustrated men.

Yes you are the oppressor and there is something completely wrong in your assumptions.

No I am not the women’s protector; I am just an ordinary man that is not sexually frustrated and I am afraid of women.



it's exaclly a racist term.and means: women is human just when she wear like men!!! if the women wants to be in normal level they must be like men!!!
the women dress is diffrent,cuase she is diffrrent.somthing you people can't undesrtand.
wearing just like a woman never make them lower than man.

In what way would that be racist? I did not say that women MUST dress like men; I said that they should dress as they want.
How you manage to get this in to Racism idea is just astonishing




it's not jsut the woman fault.but also it's not just the men fualt,it's a natural act of his body.you cant't force him to not feeling that!!
when you see food,somtimes you get hugary.that's that much simple.
In a true society both sides must behaive.

Well now there are limits, if you go to the bank and gets “hungry” over all the money you see there it doesn’t means that you can take them all just because you are “hungry” also there is NO law saying that the bank must hide their money away so that you cannot see them.

But I have a good suggestion; in order to avoid to much temptation, we could put a necklace (like a dog) around the necks of all the frustrated “hungry” guys and if anybody gets carried away, we just pull the chain.




Realy the base of problem dont need any interpret.with closing your eyes in front of the untrue wishes you can easly understand.

Who says that the wish is untrue and what makes you think that I am in anyway closing my eyes.

..
Do you understand what you say?
we invite you to think,not to reapet other's phrases.

Yes I understand very well what I am saying and as far as I am aware of I am not repeating other people’s phrases.


good sentences of you.
first of all here we were talking about hijab.
also if you are talking about freedom that is another issue.
but here women are living like others and i dont know if you have problem in geography,cuase here is islamic iran not talibanism afghanistan.
Anyway we never said we are prefect in human rights case,just as all countries .a third word country full of problems that needs to work on.

I do not think at all that I have a geographic problem; actually I do not at all consider Iran as a third world country.
Ahh… Nobody is perfect and there is place for improvement everywhere. So maybe there is hope.




Well,and you can never show your sentences as true with 100 times calling us opperessor.
police are arresting them?whom?please tell me!!
some mounth ago the police started a mission for the women who were like prostitues in street,and as i remember i talked about it enough that time in this forum.so no need to reapet.they were just some thousands women.nothing more.
yes,here we have our rules,and we have enough facts for ourself.
i know what is the problem here.That is just i ever explained enough about the hijab for you,so i'll do it within some hours in 1 another thread.

The Police is regularly trying to tighten the respect of Islamic dress code (like this they do not have to worry about the thieves) and as you says several thousand women have been attested (some of them just for wearing makeup) and that is completely unacceptable.

[Ricardo]

Why She Won't Wear Hijab!
A Discussion by A.Q. Alidost
A convesation for Muslim sisters:

"I'm so tired."

"Tired of what?"

"Of all these people judging me."

"Who judged you?"

"Like that woman, every time I sit with her, she tells me to wear hijab."

"Oh, hijab and music! The mother of all topics!"

"Yeah! I listen to music without hijab…haha!"

"Maybe she was just giving you advice."

"I don't need her advice. I know my religion. Can`t she mind her own
business?"

"Maybe you misunderstood. She was just being nice."

"Keeping out of my business, that would be nice..."

"But it's her duty to encourage you do to good."

"Trust me. That was no encouragement. And what do you mean `good` ?"

"Well, wearing hijab, that would be a good thing to do."

"Says who?"

"It's in the Qur'an, isn't it?"

"Yes. She did quote me something."

"She said Surah Nur, and other places of the Qur'an."

"Yes, but it's not a big sin anyway. Helping people and praying is more
important."

"True. But big things start with small things."

"That's a good point, but what you wear is not important. What's important
is to have a good healthy heart."

"What you wear is not important?"

"That's what I said."

"Then why do you spend an hour every morning fixing up?"

"What do you mean?"

"You spend money on cosmetics, not to mention all the time you spend on
fixing your hair and low-carb dieting."

"So?"

"So, your appearance IS important."

"No. I said wearing hijab is not an important thing in religion."

"If it's not an important thing in religion, why is it mentioned in the Holy
Qur'an?"

"You know I can't follow all that's in Qur'an."

"You mean God tells you something to do, you disobey and then it's OK?"

"Yes. God is forgiving."

"God is forgiving to those who repent and do not repeat their mistakes."

"Says who?"

"Says the same book that tells you to cover."

"But I don't like hijab, it limits my freedom."

"But the lotions, lipsticks, mascara and other cosmetics set you free?!
What`s your definition of freedom anyway?"

"Freedom is in doing whatever you like to do."

"No. Freedom is in doing the right thing, not in doing whatever we wish to do."

"Look! I've seen so many people who don't wear hijab and are nice people, and so many who wear hijab and are bad people."

"So what? There are people who are nice to you but are alcoholic. Should we all be alcoholics? You made a stupid point."

"I don't want to be an extremist or a fanatic. I'm OK the way I am without hijab."

"Then you are a secular fanatic. An extremist in disobeying God."

"You don't get it, if I wear hijab, who would marry me?!"

"So all these people with hijab never get married?!"

"Okay! What if I get married and my husband doesn't like it? And wants me to remove it?"

"What if your husband wants you to go out with him on a bank robbery?!"

"That's irrelevant, bank robbery is a crime."

"Disobeying your Creator is not a crime?"

"But then who would hire me?"

"A company that respects people for who they are."

"Not after 9-11"

"Yes. After 9-11. Don't you know about Hanan who just got into med school?
And the other one, what was her name, the girl who always wore a white hijab…ummm…"

"Yasmeen?"

"Yes. Yasmeen. She just finished her MBA and is now interning for GE."

"Why do you reduce religion to a piece of cloth anyway?"

"Why do you reduce womanhood to high heals and lipstick colors?"

"You didn't answer my question."

"In fact, I did. Hijab is not just a piece of cloth. It is obeying God in a difficult environment. It is courage, faith in action, and true womanhood.
But your short sleeves, tight pants…"

"That's called `fashion`, you live in a cave or
something? First of all, hijab was founded by men who wanted to control
women."

"Really? I did not know men could control women by hijab."

"Yes. That's what it is."

"What about the women who fight their husbands to wear hijab? And women in France who are forced to remove their hijab by men? What do you say about that?"

"Well, that's different."

"What difference? The woman who asked you to wear hijab…she was a woman, right?"

"Right, but…"

"But fashions that are designed and promoted by male-dominated corporations, set you free? Men have no control on exposing women and using them as a commodity?! Give me a break!"

"Wait, let me finish, I was saying…"

"Saying what? You think that men control women by hijab?"

"Yes."

"Specifically how?"

"By telling women how and what to wear, dummy!"

"Doesn't TV, magazines and movies tell you what to wear, and how to be `attractive'?"

"Of course, it's fashion."

"Isn't that control? Pressuring you to wear what they want you to wear?"

[Silence]

"Not just controlling you, but also controlling the market."

"What do you mean?"

"I mean, you are told to look skinny and anorexic like that woman on the cover of the magazine, by men who design those magazines and sell those products."

"I don't get it. What does hijab have to do with products."

"It has everything to do with that. Don't you see? Hijab is a threat to consumerism, women who spend billions of dollars to look skinny and live by standards of fashion designed by men…and then here is Islam, saying trash all that nonsense and focus on your soul, not on your looks, and do not worry what men think of your looks."

"Like I don't have to buy hijab? Isn't hijab a product?"

"Yes, it is. It is a product that sets you free from male-dominated consumerism."

"Stop lecturing me! I WILL NOT WEAR HIJAB!
It is awkward, outdated, and totally not suitable for this society ... Moreover, I am only 20 and too young to wear hijab!"

"Fine. Say that to your Lord, when you face Him on Judgment Day."

"Fine."

"Fine."

[Silence]

"Shut up and I don't want to hear more about hijab niqab schmijab Punjab!"

[Silence]

She stared at the mirror, tired of arguing with herself all this time.

Successful enough, she managed to shut the voices in her head, with her own opinions triumphant in victory on the matter, and a final modern decision accepted by the society - but rejected by the Faith:

"Yes!" - to curls on the hair - "No!" - to hijab!


"And he (/she) is indeed a failure who corrupts it [the soul]!"
[Holy Quran 91:10]

Subhana'Allah!!!

"Nay! You prefer the life of this world; While the hereafter is better and more lasting."
[Holy Quran: 87:16-17]


"You are the best community (Ummah) raised up for (the benefit of) humanity; enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong and believing in Allah."
[Holy Quran: 3:110]


http://www.islamtomorrow.com/articles/Hijab_she_wont_wear.asp

What the...

:errrr3::errrr3::no1:

[mustavaris]

I gotta add that I know a few Iranian women, living in Iran and living out of Iran, and not a single one thinks that this policy of enforcement of dress code is good. Kindly said they hate it. And this has nothing to do with the fact whether they would dress like that if they could choose or not. It´s about the policy.

And when talking about the religion: the god(s) know whether you would have chosen hijab if you are forced to wear it. Religious behaviour forced upon people is not worth of anything and the god(s) know(s) it. It´s damned hypocritical.

[yingyang]

nice find ricardo.


on a different note,

hmm, don't force the thief not to steal, the rapist not to rape, the murderer not to kill..... you would be oppressing them and their rights to freedom of choice.

if a religion or god, lays down a code of conduct for the benefit of people and society, but you don't have to follow it, it's ok to disobey it, why would rules have been given in the first place?

if you tell your friend not to take your car, sleep with your significant other, or urinate on your head, would you not mean it? or are you leaving it up him to decide if he wants to comply or not, because the rules aren't important to follow. or by some logic, if you were a good friend you'd forgive them and it wouldn't matter if they did that or not.

[Vladimir80]

When it comes to hajib, the day men started wearing it to run out of fire fight is the day I stopped caring...

[Shahab-3]

if a religion or god, lays down a code of conduct for the benefit of people and society, but you don't have to follow it, it's ok to disobey it, why would rules have been given in the first place?


That's a big IF and that's a questionable WHY!

a) These guidelines might have made sense several hundred years ago for the Arabs who slept with anything including their camel & goat! They don't make any sense for today's iPhone society!

b) Don't confuse guidelines with rules!

c) Never abuse your man made guidelines nor force them upon others.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Both fictional characters raise good and bad points, Ricardo.When it comes to hajib, the day men started wearing it to run out of fire fight is the day I stopped caring...LOL. When/where has this happened?

[Vladimir80]

When/where has this happened?

I seen it in Kosovo... I think man wearing burka ran out of Red Mosque last week. These cowards is starting to make it fashionable... :roflmao3:

[yingyang]

That's a big IF and that's a questionable WHY!

a) These guidelines might have made sense several hundred years ago for the Arabs who slept with anything including their camel & goat! They don't make any sense for today's iPhone society!

b) Don't confuse guidelines with rules!

c) Never abuse your man made guidelines nor force them upon others.


i'll second letter "c". i don't participate in letter "b". i'm sure some where i have read warnings about the problems that would happen with todays iphone society and their lack of values.

i think if rules of conduct were set, it doesn't matter if we are in the age of throwing rocks and spears..... or everyone has their own personal hover craft. just because it's 2007, doesn't mean the basic moral intention of rules change. so is it alright to murder because the law saying not to is outdated?

btw- i'm not a backer of the hajib. nor am i a backer of skimpy clothing. everything in moderation works for me.

[mustavaris]

Both fictional characters raise good and bad points, Ricardo.LOL. When/where has this happened?

Some terrorists have used this also in UK (or maybe it was niqab? Not sure which one they used in UK) and in Afganistan some of the Taliban leadership has used this since 2002. Tranvestites are everywhere you know....

And yes, one of the Red Mosque sicko leaders was caught in a burkha. Cowards are cowards no matter how well you fry them.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

btw- i'm not a backer of the hajib. nor am i a backer of skimpy clothing. everything in moderation works for me.Well then wear "moderate" clothing if it works for you. But if you claim the right to forbid others to wear skimpy clothing or hijabs, you're going to create a lot of avoidable problems for yourself.

[payam]

hehe,seems brothers and sister were so active here in 1 day.
well i read your posts.that's repeating the repetitions.and so my answers are same.
i feel the deficit of 1 puzzle .and that is the true and complete expalantion of hijab and the reason for existance of it.what i did here was just saying some facts.but i feel others need more details.
So just wait,i'm working on my islamic forum that i'm going to make for all islamic subjects.;)

[yingyang]

Well then wear "moderate" clothing if it works for you. But if you claim the right to forbid others to wear skimpy clothing or hijabs, you're going to create a lot of avoidable problems for yourself.


if me backing the "right to forbid skimpy clothing" causes me problems, .... so be it. i have seen where that leads society. if immorality is ok with you, then we can agree to disagree.

in an analogy, should parents allow their kids to run amuck as a lot do in the US? if you give them rules you are oppressing their rights and their wants. and most children surely don't see the wrong, the long term consequences, or care about many of the things they do. then when they get older, they realize that the rules are a good thing and they shouldn't have been allowed to do the things they weren't allowed to do. that it keeps a good society.

do you want to allow a raunchy society just to give people 100% freedom? i sure don't. if you are in favor of it..... florida would make your dreams come true.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

if me backing the "right to forbid skimpy clothing" causes me problems, .... so be it.LOL "the right to forbid".

Before I keep arguing with you, think of the logic of what you just said.

[yingyang]

lol, are you argueing? cause i'm not. discussing, posting my opinions, nothing more.

i know what i wrote, it was only put that way copied how you had put it. that's not the way i would put it..... i would call that format of its writing as an oxymoron.

but you know, if you learn from the area of effort the us gov is placing more focus on now..... you just have to word it differently and sell to the people in a marketalbe way, and trick them that it's all good. then they will willing accept any opression that is imposed on them.

as you know, none are more helplessly enslaved, than those who falsely believe they're free. yes?