Iran - Death Sentence by Stoning was carried out!

[Shahab-3]

Here is the original thread which was closed... most folks called it a Western propaganda!

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=17227&page=2

Well, guess what! It was true after all!:frown3:

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=38530

"Blood Was Everywhere, the Smell of Death"

July 13, 2007
Inter Press Service
Omid Memarian*



BERKELEY, United States -- Criticism of Iran's judiciary is mounting following the brutal execution of a man who was convicted of adultery more than a decade ago and stoned to death on Jul. 5. Although the head of the judiciary branch, Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi, issued a written order stopping the execution almost a month ago, the judge in the case insisted on stoning Jafar Kiani to death.

Stoning is the prescribed punishment for adultery under Islamic law in Iran. However, in recent years, some judiciary officials have been reluctant to enforce it due to intense domestic and international objections to its barbaric nature. In Sharia (Islamic law), a man is usually buried up to his waist, while a woman is buried up to her neck. Those carrying out the verdict throw stones at the condemned person until they die.

Almost a month ago, "Stop Stoning Forever", a social campaign formed by outspoken women activists, warned the public that Kiani and Mokarrameh Ebrahimi, a 43-year-old mother of three, would be stoned to death in Takistan, a city in Ghazvin province. They launched an internet campaign and contacted judiciary officials to stop the execution.

They were successful in reaching the segment of the judiciary branch that opposed the use of stoning in such cases, convincing Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi to order a halt to the execution.

Since the Iranian government controls all major media such as television, radio and newspapers, the internet is the only communication tool that activists can employ to bypass censorship, filtering and suppression of freedom of speech.

Then, on Jul. 10, Dr. Alireza Jamshidi, the spokesman for the judiciary branch, confirmed that in fact, Jafar Kiani had been executed by stoning five days earlier, although his partner, Mokarrameh Ebrahimi, has still not been executed.

Jamshidi expressed surprise at the decision by a local judge to proceed: "There has been a stoning sentence carried out by a judge in Takistan branch recently, but the sentences were not supposed to be executed in such a manner according to the judiciary branch, and the ban order issued by the head of the judiciary is to ensure appropriate caution by the judges in issuing and executing such sentences."

"But in this case, since the sentence had been confirmed [by the Supreme Court] it was carried out, although the woman's sentence has been stopped," he said.

"The extent to which the ban order can deprive a judge from independence is a long discussion, but a judge can act independently -- although with the order of the head of judiciary, it is necessary to exercise more caution in issuing and executing these sentences," he added.

Several sources say that the office of Judge Ashabi, who enforced the sentence, is closed and he has not been seen since the execution. The head of the judiciary in Ghazvin Province has also said that the sentence was implemented without his knowledge and the judge enforced the sentence on his accord. There is clear evidence of internal struggles over this issue among radical Islamists and moderates in the judiciary branch.

Asieh Amini, a journalist and women's rights activist who went to Aghche-Kands, a small village near Takistan where the stoning took place, told IPS that none of the local people she spoke to were aware that such an incident had occurred.

"From what I have found, Ayatollah Shahroudi just halted the stoning but he did not cancel it. Therefore, the judge was able to legally carry out the sentence under the current laws in Iran," she said.

"The judge, with help from a few policemen, took the prisoner from detention to a very small village, along with some of his colleagues from the judiciary office in Ghazvin province. Although none of the people in that small village were agreeable to the stoning, the judge and his accomplices stoned him to death," Amini said, based on her observations from her trip to the area.

She was able to locate a copy of the judge's report that was written to his superior official. The judge started the execution by throwing the first stone.

"I went there; blood was everywhere, the smell of death. Killing a man by throwing out stones [is] a cold-blooded action. It seems it is a political game and a power struggle among radicals, traditionalists and moderates. I believe Ayatollah Shahroudi is not a fan of execution by stoning but as it is an Islamic law, he cannot oppose the fundamentalists in the judiciary and remains silent against enforcement of such a brutal sentence," she added.

Many other countries and human rights groups have strongly condemned this barbaric punishment. Just a few days ago, Human Rights Watch sent a letter to Ayatollah Shahroudi urging him to eliminate the penalty from Iran's constitution.

"We wrote to Ayatollah Shahroudi for several reasons: First, this cold-blooded killing was carried out by provincial judiciary officials who come under his supervision, at least nominally. Second, he had recently ordered the stay of execution in this case -- which the provincial authorities disregarded. Third, he had previously issued the moratorium on executions by stoning," Joe Stork, deputy director of the Middle East and North Africa division at Human Rights Watch, told IPS. "It would be a logical step, following on the moratorium, to remove from the books any regulations recommending or permitting execution by stoning for any offence," he added. "The next step, which we did not spell out in our letter, would be to ban execution by stoning, and affirmatively make it a criminal offence."

Shadi Sadr, a prominent lawyer and leading member of the "Stop Stoning Forever" campaign, says there is clearly a conflict in the differing stances within the judiciary regarding the elimination of stoning laws in the constitution.

"By empowering the radicalism in the state's discourse, some factions of the judiciary branch which support stoning as a part of Islamic laws, and resist its elimination, have become more powerful than the other factions which favour eradicating it from the constitution," Sadr told IPS from Tehran.

"Ayatollah Shahroudi and his supporters in the judiciary do not have legal and political authority to oppose the radical Islamist faction," she added.

Despite international pressure to stop the stoning of Jafar Kiani's partner, Mokarrameh Ebrahimi, Sadr is sceptical that even the nation's top judiciary official can block such sentences anymore, although officials say her case is currently being reviewed.

"Previously, the stoning laws existed, but Ayatollah Shahroudi's political power allowed him to stay an execution order. Unfortunately, now, since the radicals have gained more power in the government, his political will and authority has been greatly undermined."

*Omid Memarian is an Iranian journalist and civil society activist. He has won several awards, including Human Rights Watch's highest honour in 2005, the Human Rights Defender Award.

[Vinay]

the mullahs who ordered this are shameless and backward.
The great country of iran needs another revolution to get rid of these judge dreads.

[Shahab-3]

This is the hole, now filled, in which they stoned Jafar Kiani. Source:

http://www.meydaan.org/showarticle.aspx?arid=283&cid=46

http://www.meydaan.org/UserFiles/Image/sangsar/chaleh.jpg

[Prinz Eugen]

How barbaric….
Here is another source for back up, maybe this will open the eyes of some people here.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2007/07/A8DCBE4B-0E23-4822-8D65-E4B6EC23BD9A.html


Can one of the mods reopen the old thread and merge it with this one please…

[Prinz Eugen]

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411319/1230291

The European Union has criticised Iran for stoning to death a man sentenced for adultery, saying the execution went against earlier Iranian pledges to curtail the practice.

[Prinz Eugen]

http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20070715-083918-7128r

Top Iranian official defends stoning of adulterer
AFP

July 15, 2007

TEHRAN -- A top Iranian official Sunday defended the use of execution by stoning after a sentence was carried out on an adulterer, saying the punishment was legal and in line with Iran's rights commitments.

Mohammad Javad Larijani, the head of the Iranian judiciary's human rights committee, said the judiciary supported the principle of stoning after confirmation last week of the stoning sparked international condemnation.

"Stoning is based on Islamic Sharia law and it is not contrary to any of our international obligations," Larijani was quoted as saying by state television's Web site.

[Kaveh]

damn islamic republic traitors .....

[yingyang]

ya know,.... the day one of your significant others has an affiar on you.... i sure bet you personally would like to stone both of them!! and in your anger of being betrayed in one of the worst ways, i bet you would if you had the chance.

sure stoning may be harsh. but when those kind of incidents go unpunished... next thing you have is a country as vile, disgusting, and moralless as the US.

[Shahab-3]

ya know,.... the day one of your significant others has an affiar on you.... i sure bet you personally would like to stone both of them!! and in your anger of being betrayed in one of the worst ways, i bet you would if you had the chance.

sure stoning may be harsh. but when those kind of incidents go unpunished... next thing you have is a country as vile, disgusting, and moralless as the US.

**** CRAP!

I might be heart broken, but I would never wish death, let alone death by stoning! You should know that barbaric acts are unjustifiable regardless of the cause!:frown3:

I hope that I'm wrong but you sound like the type that would be pro honor killings!:worried2:

[yingyang]

you have offended me! i will bring my rocks and defend my honor!

lol, just kidding. and yes, i do realize what type of honor killings you are talking about.

barbaric crimes deserve barbaric punishment. even in america more and more people are becoming pro death penalty. it's only a small handful of groups that make a bunch of noise that are against it. not for adultry, but to rapists, child molesters, kidnappers, and murderers. and heck yes i support that 200%!!!

[Shahab-3]

you have offended me! i will bring my rocks and defend my honor!

lol, just kidding. and yes, i do realize what type of honor killings you are talking about.

barbaric crimes deserve barbaric punishment. even in america more and more people are becoming pro death penalty. it's only a small handful of groups that make a bunch of noise that are against it. not for adultry, but to rapists, child molesters, kidnappers, and murderers. and heck yes i support that 200%!!!

I'm also for death penalty as long as its done in a civilized manner:
- Fair trial
- Based on constitution & judicial rules
- Not based on tribal / religious rules (e.g. getting stoned for adultery)!

Now back to the topic, that is we are dealing with a Barbaric Islamists in Iran!

[Nubian Warrior]

This is really sad. I always thought that Iran took a higher ground than the Saudis but this would be a low even for the Sauds. Just like when they sentenced 16 YO girl to death by hanging. Iran is a sick society. Stafallah!

[Shahab-3]

This is really sad. I always thought that Iran took a higher ground than the Saudis but this would be a low even for the Sauds. Just like when they sentenced 16 YO girl to death by hanging. Iran is a sick society. Stafallah!

Correction: Iran is NOT.....But Mullahs ARE!:err2:

[Behrooz Boonabi]

This is so very interesting!!! Awesome sources, I am reading the inquirer right now to get some more. Keep up the ****, I love it.

[Shahab-3]

This is so very interesting!!! Awesome sources, I am reading the inquirer right now to get some more. Keep up the ****, I love it.

As a moderator, you may want to consider referencing your sources for discrediting the facts mentioned in this thread!:teacher3:

[Abbas]

Stoning to death is terrible in todays society.

[Nubian Warrior]

Correction: Iran is NOT.....But Mullahs ARE!:err2:

I'll concede your point. My bad. BTW this is not ****, the Mullahs have a way of hiding things from indy media sources and investigative journalists. Only this time theyz got caught!:shocked4:

[crod]

It must be said, this must be the worst possible method of execution practised anywhere in the world. It is draconian at best and really doesn’t send anything positive from any country that participates in such practices.
How long does it take for the condemned to die during this barbaric practice? On a personal thought, I would much rather live in a country where adultery takes place over stoning to death or hanging for that matter or any methods of capital punishment or laws meted out because some religious whacko’s say it’s immoral etc.
Madness. Sometimes I have to wonder how those of any particular persuasion condone the killing of anyone.

[nephew of empty sky]

Well this (stoning) is a legacy of jews, which dispersed all over Middle east , but now days jews don't use ston to kill and punish adultery, but bomb and kill women and childern alike in their homes while they sleeping.

[rabs]

Well this (stoning) is a legacy of jews, which dispersed all over Middle east , but now days jews don't use ston to kill and punish adultery, but bomb and kill women and childern alike in their homes while they sleeping.

giggle. Iran stones people and its still the jews fault, amazing.

[crod]

Well this (stoning) is a legacy of jews, which dispersed all over Middle east , but now days jews don't use ston to kill and punish adultery, but bomb and kill women and childern alike in their homes while they sleeping.

you are kidding me posting that?:roflmao3:

[Bumble Bee]

ya know,.... the day one of your significant others has an affiar on you.... i sure bet you personally would like to stone both of them!! and in your anger of being betrayed in one of the worst ways, i bet you would if you had the chance.

sure stoning may be harsh. but when those kind of incidents go unpunished... next thing you have is a country as vile, disgusting, and moralless as the US.There's so much homosexuality and perversion in America, that this nation needs stoning.

[Artystone]

barbaric crimes deserve barbaric punishment. even in america more and more people are becoming pro death penalty. it's only a small handful of groups that make a bunch of noise that are against it. not for adultry, but to rapists, child molesters, kidnappers, and murderers. and heck yes i support that 200%!!!

I do more, it sickens me when I think of how little (if any) punishment is given to such people in this country. Finally someone who agrees with me.

[Oriellien]

I do more, it sickens me when I think of how little (if any) punishment is given to such people in this country. Finally someone who agrees with me.

The problem is when people get convincted of the death penalty under questionable circumstances. For example recently a man was about to be executed for killing a cop, but there was no physical evidence, just seven witnesses. Five of those witnessess later took back their statements saying the police forced them to make them.

I would support the death penalty for horrible people, ie murder-rapists, child killers, cop killers, etc etc, if there was evidence without a doubt that could be proved.

Also, they need to get rid of the parole leinacny. People serve 1/2 or 1/3 of their sentence because they 'act good' in jail.

[Artystone]

I would support the death penalty for horrible people, ie murder-rapists, child killers, cop killers, etc etc, if there was evidence without a doubt that could be proved.



Of course.

[Vinay]

Well this (stoning) is a legacy of jews, which dispersed all over Middle east , but now days jews don't use ston to kill and punish adultery, but bomb and kill women and childern alike in their homes while they sleeping.

excuses are easy in iran,rite???

why are you late for work???

my car was punctured on a nail and btw, the nail was jewish.

:tired1_24::tired1_24::tired1_24:

[Vinay]

There's so much homosexuality and perversion in America, that this nation needs stoning.

:roflmao3:

kidding rite??????

[Kiaar]

There's so much homosexuality and perversion in America, that this nation needs stoning.

Someone needs to join us in the 21st century.

[Shahab-3]

excuses are easy in iran,rite???

why are you late for work???

my car was punctured on a nail and btw, the nail was jewish.

:tired1_24::tired1_24::tired1_24:

Another version could go like this:

Why are you late for work?

- Sorry no gas, the gas was rationed!
- It's a Zionist plot that I can't drive to work
- So, I get fired and they could claim a higher unemployment rate
- So, they could say IRI is a bad regime and advocate a regime change:laugh4:

[Jadeite]

Mwahaha! Thank you Iran! The best propaganda is that which the enemy gives you freely for use against them!

[alopes]

A thing that i don´t understand in these honor killings and state executions like
the adultery killings or homosexual killings,

why to kill these peoples when they are productive to the society?
How much money have been invested in these peoples, in their education, health care, food, for they to become helpfull to the society.

If they commited faults against the morality so make a money penalty for these crimes.

So to say, for every fault, 1000 dollars penalties or forced social works.

Why not forgive these people if their "crimes" are not against the lives of another people?

If these news is real, it is in fact barbaric to kill some human for
morality laws that could be punished with social good examples.

The money for these possible penalties could be used to help the poors and develop the education or agriculture.

Even corruption cases, if the person that commits the corruption gives back all the stolen money and lose its own money and get prison penalties so why to execute them, if that is the case, they would be useful even if they were turned in to farmers or construction workers.

I think forgiviness an second chances is allways a good option, if the crime is not against the life of other peoples.

[mustavaris]

sure stoning may be harsh. but when those kind of incidents go unpunished... next thing you have is a country as vile, disgusting, and moralless as the US.

Considering the fact that they stone people to death, impose religion on people who do not buy into it, I would say that the regime is in many ways much more vile, disgusting and moralless than the US.

Act of barbarity as its purest. And you aint gonna find a word about such punishments in Quran, if that matters...

[Behrooz Boonabi]

I do more, it sickens me when I think of how little (if any) punishment is given to such people in this country.

I couldn't agree with you more. They let child molesters and murderers free, when we youthenize a pervert, these people get bent up.

In Iran, I can send a 10 year old to the corner store without her getting raped and murdered.

[alopes]

I don´t think that USA, if that is the case, have little punishment in capital crimes.
As i have read, USA have executed 1086 convicted criminals since 1976.

Capital punishment in the United States is officially sanctioned by 38 of the 50 states, as well as by the federal government and the military. The overwhelming majority of executions are performed by the states; the federal government maintains the legal power to use capital punishment but does so relatively infrequently. Each state practicing capital punishment has different laws regarding its methods and crimes which qualify; no state may execute someone for a crime committed before the age of 18. The state of Texas has performed more executions than any other states since the resumption of the death penalty in 1976; prior to that date, Virginia had led the nation.[1]

Capital punishment is a controversial issue in the U.S. with many prominent organizations and individuals participating in the debate. Arguments for and against it are based on moral, practical, religious, and emotional grounds. Advocates of the death penalty argue that it deters crime, improves the community by making sure that convicted criminals do not find their way out onto the streets to offend again, and is cheaper than keeping convicted criminals in high security prison for the rest of their natural lives. Some opponents of the death penalty claim that "capital punishment cheapens human life and puts government on the same low moral level as criminals who have taken life."[2]

Since the reinstatement of the death penalty in 1976 there have been 1079 executions in the United States (as of June 6, 2007).[3] There were 53 executions in 2006.[4]


In the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Suicide_on_death_row there is a table with the 1086 executions number.


Also if the state kill a wrongly convicted "raper" how you repair the error.

But i also think that the raper of children deserve the death penalty so that it would be one exception, in my view.

[alopes]

Also, when one talk of executions, there is also the possibility of executing the enemy as a "justice" act.

Wikipedia also refers to this:

The largest single execution in United States history was the hanging of 38 Dakota people convicted of murder and rape in the Dakota War of 1862. They were executed simultaneously on December 26, 1862 in Mankato, Minnesota. A single blow from an ax cut the rope that held the large four-sided platform, and the prisoners (except for one whose rope had broken, and who consequently had to be restrung) fell to their deaths.[8] The second largest mass execution in United States history was also a hanging: the execution of 13 African American soldiers for their parts in the Houston Riot. Notably, both incidents involved ethnic minority defendants, and military tribunal judgments in time of war.


from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Suicide_on_death_row

[makepeace]

ya know,.... the day one of your significant others has an affiar on you.... i sure bet you personally would like to stone both of them!! and in your anger of being betrayed in one of the worst ways, i bet you would if you had the chance.

sure stoning may be harsh. but when those kind of incidents go unpunished... next thing you have is a country as vile, disgusting, and moralless as the US.
But these acts ruin the name of ISLAM DONT BE STUPID.....LET GOD JUDGE HER FATE, THATS WHAT THE JUDGEMENT DAY IS FOR.....

[makepeace]

Correction: Iran is NOT.....But Mullahs ARE!:err2:

BUT THE IRAN GOVERNMENT OBVIOUSLY LETS SUCH THINGS HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY SEEM TO KEEP ON HAPPENING. MAY THOSE THAT MAKE ISLAM LOOK EVIL IN THE EYES OF OTHERS NEVER BE FORGIVEN

[mustavaris]

I couldn't agree with you more. They let child molesters and murderers free, when we youthenize a pervert, these people get bent up.

In Iran, I can send a 10 year old to the corner store without her getting raped and murdered.

Not too long ago I heard a strory how a 9 (or was it 10) years old little girl was raped by a man and his son...in Iran, yes.

No country is free from this scum.

And while the sexual crimes have soared here, this country is still really safe... as in Iran, esp. in Teheran the traffic is really dangerous... The dangers are varied.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Even corruption cases, if the person that commits the corruption gives back all the stolen money and lose its own money and get prison penalties so why to execute them, if that is the case, they would be useful even if they were turned in to farmers or construction workers.
I hate it how corrupt politicians and big business managers always get a slap on the hand and are not even forced to return the money they stole.

[payam]

I read this link: http://www.meydaan.org/showarticle.aspx?arid=283&cid=46
It didn't say what was ''jafar kiyanis'' fault.
If he was a rapper ,so he was deserve for that.
accoarding to the islamic rules if the rapper rejects his accusation in court of justice(even when all know he is lieing and there are enough proof for it) ,the court of justice has no right to sentenced that guy to ''stoning to death''.
But if he accept his fault clearly and say it openly,he is on it.
So it's all clear that mr ''jafar kiyani'' was a rapper to a woman.and in court of justice he accepted his fualt clearly.So this is the result of his dirty action.
Barbaric is his job,so anyone like him will catch the rsult of action.

[payam]

Not too long ago I heard a strory how a 9 (or was it 10) years old little girl was raped by a man and his son...in Iran, yes.

No country is free from this scum.

And while the sexual crimes have soared here, this country is still really safe... as in Iran, esp. in Teheran the traffic is really dangerous... The dangers are varied.

A 6 years old girl get raped by an old afghan guy and his son..2 million illegal afghans!!!
Why they don't go ask for help from thier papa usa?to make palace for them?

[mustavaris]

A 6 years old girl get raped by an old afghan guy and his son..2 million illegal afghans!!!
Why they don't go ask for help from thier papa usa?to make palace for them?

I am bad at numbers you know Payam..;)

[max]

Damn ! What a jewish world is this, we are living in.. :(
Hundreds of lebanese childs were killed savagely last year. Just for nothing. And this has been forgotten quickly.
But a stoning of a rubbish pervert will be discussed and condemned throughout many centuries, i think..

[Oluf]

Damn ! What a jewish world is this, we are living in.. :(
Hundreds of lebanese childs were killed savagely last year. Just for nothing. And this has been forgotten quickly.
But a stoning of a rubbish pervert will be discussed and condemned throughout many centuries, i think..

Yes you are completely right.

However you are forgetting two important things:

Hezbollah used the civilian population as human shields and where hiding among the civilian population. If the Hezbollah could have been able to fight like men and face the enemy in stead of hiding behind women and children, there would have been no whatsoever civilian casualties (and probably no more Hezbollah) in the Southern Lebanon. :err2:

On the other hand: Hezbollah have been firing rockets in to the Northern Israel with the sole aim to kill innocent civilians.:worried2:

[Behrooz Boonabi]

Yes you are completely right.

However you are forgetting two important things:

Hezbollah used the civilian population as human shields and where hiding among the civilian population. If the Hezbollah could have been able to fight like men and face the enemy in stead of hiding behind women and children, there would have been no whatsoever civilian casualties (and probably no more Hezbollah) in the Southern Lebanon. :err2:

On the other hand: Hezbollah have been firing rockets in to the Northern Israel with the sole aim to kill innocent civilians.:worried2:

1) Hezbollah are civilians.

2) israeli's are the invaders, not citizens.

[max]

Yes you are completely right.
However you are forgetting two important things:
Hezbollah used the civilian population as human shields and where hiding among the civilian population. If the Hezbollah could have been able to fight like men
Come on ! Then why jews don't drop their guns and fight with palestinians by their own fists ? Like real men..
On the other hand: Hezbollah have been firing rockets in to the Northern Israel with the sole aim to kill innocent civilians.:worried2:
Lebanese children are not children of Hezbollah. They have no difference from Israeli children. Stupid people don't want to understand this insistently.

[Oluf]

Come on ! Then why jews don't drop their guns and fight with palestinians by their own fists ? Like real men...

Because the Palestinians (Arabs) never fight with their fists but uses bombs against civilian targets (most of the time they haven’t got the balls to attack the military) often carried by children that do not even fully understand what they are doing.
The Palestinian (Arabs) will sell their sisters and mothers for money (that is how the Israelis gets their information) and they will use ignorant and indoctrinated children to carry out attacks while the leaders are drinking tea and stocking millions of dollars in foreign banks while the population is starving.
Arabs will never fight with their fists; they just talk (a lot) and stab you in the back when they have the opportunity.


Lebanese children are not children of Hezbollah. They have no difference from Israeli children. Stupid people don't want to understand this insistently.

There are no whatsoever difference between Lebanese children and Israeli children.
The difference is in the fact that Hezbollah is hiding behind Lebanese children, but nobody is hiding behind Israeli children.
One doesn’t need to be very intelligent to understand this.

[max]

Because the Palestinians (Arabs) never fight with their fists but uses bombs against civilian targets (most of the time they haven’t got the balls to attack the military) often carried by children that do not even fully understand what they are doing.
The Palestinian (Arabs) will sell their sisters and mothers for money
Ok, you may make your racist comments, i'm not an arab supporter, anyway. ;)
And what is your own nationality - turkish ?
The difference is in the fact that Hezbollah is hiding behind Lebanese children, but nobody is hiding behind Israeli children.
Hey, Israel kills more children than Hezbollah and Hamas altogether. So there's NO difference between Israel and Hezbollah. Both of them have semitic roots. :(

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

I read this link: http://www.meydaan.org/showarticle.aspx?arid=283&cid=46
It didn't say what was ''jafar kiyanis'' fault.
If he was a rapper ,so he was deserve for that.
accoarding to the islamic rules if the rapper rejects his accusation in court of justice(even when all know he is lieing and there are enough proof for it) ,the court of justice has no right to sentenced that guy to ''stoning to death''.
But if he accept his fault clearly and say it openly,he is on it.
So it's all clear that mr ''jafar kiyani'' was a rapper to a woman.and in court of justice he accepted his fualt clearly.So this is the result of his dirty action.
Barbaric is his job,so anyone like him will catch the rsult of action.
Are you saying if someone confesses to a crime, the punishment is worse than if he doesn't?1) Hezbollah are civilians.Most Hezbollah members are probably civilians (politicians, aid and charity workers. journalists...). Those who fought, are not.

2) israeli's are the invaders, not citizens.If you consider all Israelis to be "invaders, not citizens", you can't really complain when your own civilians are targeted. I'm not saying the civilians targeted "can't complain" but those who advocate the targeting of Israeli civilians can't. By Israeli civilians I don't mean the settlers in the West Bank or Golan mountains.Because the Palestinians (Arabs) never fight with their fists but uses bombs against civilian targets (most of the time they haven’t got the balls to attack the military) often carried by children that do not even fully understand what they are doing.Then how come Israeli soldiers died in the intifadahs etc?

The Palestinian (Arabs) will sell their sisters and mothers for money (that is how the Israelis gets their information)Source? and they will use ignorant and indoctrinated children to carry out attacks while the leaders are drinking tea and stocking millions of dollars in foreign banks while the population is starving.True, to some extent.

Arabs will never fight with their fists; they just talk (a lot) and stab you in the back when they have the opportunity.So will Israelis.

The difference is in the fact that Hezbollah is hiding behind Lebanese children, but nobody is hiding behind Israeli children.Source? Israelis hide in high-altitude supersonic fighter bombers and highly armored tanks.

[Oluf]

Ok, you may make your racist comments, i'm not an arab supporter, anyway. ;)
And what is your own nationality - turkish ?

My comments are not racist; it is not because I do not agree with their way of fighting that I become a racist.
No I am not Turkish, but I like Turks, Iranians, and any Arab nationality. My opinions are not based upon religion (I do not care about religion) or upon nationalities.
When I used the term Palestinian (Arab) it was for completely different historical reasons (that we can discuss) and in order to make sure that we know who I was talking about.


Hey, Israel kills more children than Hezbollah and Hamas altogether. So there's NO difference between Israel and Hezbollah. Both of them have semitic roots. :(

Yes you are probably right in that, however… The essential (and very essential) difference is that the Hezbollah, Hamas, and you name it, intentionally kills children and other innocent while Israel only incidentally kills children when some “brave” freedom fighter is hiding among them.

[mustavaris]

1) Hezbollah are civilians.

2) israeli's are the invaders, not citizens.

Civvies ain´t armed.

If it carries a gun on the battle field and ain´t your friend, shoot to kill.

If un-uniformed men and un-uniformed fighters mix willingly, shoot them all.

Civvies are civvies no matter how we interpret their right to live on that piece of land they are sitting on.

[max]

The essential (and very essential) difference is that the Hezbollah, Hamas, and you name it, intentionally kills children and other innocent while Israel only incidentally kills children
:roflmao3::roflmao3::roflmao3:
And they kill children 'incidentally' more than arabs do it intentionally. Lol, this is the funniest joke i heard this year.

[Oluf]

Then how come Israeli soldiers died in the intifadahs etc?

Because sometimes the soldiers are also hit by terrorist actions, but the large majority of armed actions (should we call them that?) are aimed randomly at civilian targets.
Schools, nightclubs, bars, busses etc… Basically where a large number of civilians are gathered randomly.

Source?

You know I cannot give a source and you also know that it is true

So will Israelis.

Maybe you are right. It was not at all my intention to expose the Israelis (Jews) as better people than the Arabs (Muslims). My intention was to underline that one side is using far less noble methods than the other and that the victims are thereafter.
However it is very possible that if the odds where reversed the Israelis would turn to the same methods. On the other hand it doesn’t change the reality of today.


Source? Israelis hide in high-altitude supersonic fighter bombers and highly armored tanks.

Well that is the hard fact, and the essential question is as follows:
Does the technical superiority of one side excuse and justify a barbaric abuse of its own innocent civilians as shield by the other side?

Well… Maybe. However if the Hezbollah finds it acceptable to use and sacrifice its own innocent people as shield, it is the Hezbollah’s choice and therefore remains Hezbollah’s responsibility.

[max]

My comments are not racist. The Palestinian (Arabs) will sell their sisters and mothers for money
This joke was also good. :biggrin1:

[payam]

Are you saying if someone confesses to a crime, the punishment is worse than if he doesn't?

Yes,that's it.
becuase the goal of all these punishments is to condemning such behaviours.creating a red line for it. so nobody will look at it as a common or usual crime.

[Oluf]

:roflmao3::roflmao3::roflmao3:
And they kill children 'incidentally' more than arabs do it intentionally. Lol, this is the funniest joke i heard this year.

That is not at all a joke and things like this don’t make me laugh at all.

It is quite certain that the Israeli army have in the past killed innocent civilians in cold blood. However these have been personal criminal actions (where the incident is investigated and the criminals hopefully punished) but never a programmed action planned by Israeli forces.

On the other hand, the other side (too many fractions and too much risk of being labelled as racist to name them) is almost always aiming its actions towards innocent civilians, and I am yet to hear about somebody from the other side being under investigation for killing an Israeli civilian.

[max]

That is not at all a joke and things like this don’t make me laugh at all.
It is quite certain that the Israeli army have in the past killed innocent civilians in cold blood. However these have been personal criminal actions (where the incident is investigated and the criminals hopefully punished) but never a programmed action planned by Israeli forces.
So can you tell me, which Israeli soldier is punished for killing civilians in Lebanon last year ?

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Because sometimes the soldiers are also hit by terrorist actions, but the large majority of armed actions (should we call them that?) are aimed randomly at civilian targets.
Schools, nightclubs, bars, busses etc… Basically where a large number of civilians are gathered randomly.



You know I cannot give a source and you also know that it is true



Maybe you are right. It was not at all my intention to expose the Israelis (Jews) as better people than the Arabs (Muslims). My intention was to underline that one side is using far less noble methods than the other and that the victims are thereafter.
However it is very possible that if the odds where reversed the Israelis would turn to the same methods. On the other hand it doesn’t change the reality of today.




Well that is the hard fact, and the essential question is as follows:
Does the technical superiority of one side excuse and justify a barbaric abuse of its own innocent civilians as shield by the other side?

Well… Maybe. However if the Hezbollah finds it acceptable to use and sacrifice its own innocent people as shield, it is the Hezbollah’s choice and therefore remains Hezbollah’s responsibility.I still have not seen a credible source that Hetbollah fighters were indeed hiding among civilians. I have seen videos of them shooting missiles or rockets from what appeared to be civilian buildings. But how do we know that those buildings had not been abandoned by the civilians? Historically, in most wars, when soldiers seize a civilian building, the civilians leave willingly or because they are forced to.

On the other hand, I have PROOF THAT ISRAELIS WERE "HIDING BEHIND CIVILIANS".

http://www.stolenchildhood.net/images/israel_lebanon_war_israeli_children_signing_missiles_israeli _children_.jpg

Yes,that's it.
becuase the goal of all these punishments is to condemning such behaviours.creating a red line for it. so nobody will look at it as a common or usual crime.This is really dumb. It's more logical to give someone incentive to confess by decreasing the punishment. Otherwise, nobody would ever confess, except for idiots.

[mustavaris]

I still have not seen a credible source that Hetbollah fighters were indeed hiding among civilians. I have seen videos of them shooting missiles or rockets from what appeared to be civilian buildings. But how do we know that those buildings had not been abandoned by the civilians? Historically, in most wars, when soldiers seize a civilian building, the civilians leave willingly or because they are forced to.

The law of warfare is clear about that. If you shoot from protected area (civvies or protected buildings around) the status changes and it becomes legal target. That´s why counterartillery against enemy battery is not crime from the side of the counter action, but the crime is commited by the one who attacks from the close proximity or from within protected area/people.

And if the fighters do not wear insignia that clearly separates them from the civvies, they are responsible if some (un)armed civilian men are shot during the heat of the battler (though of course, the soldiers must try to kill only the true enemies).

In Afganistan the basic Taliban fighters werent considered to be "illegal combatants" as they wore distinct "uniform", the black turbans/black outfit and because they were native Afgans and couldnt be blamed to be mecenaries or foreign fighters/terrorists.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

The law of warfare is clear about that. If you shoot from protected area (civvies or protected buildings around) the status changes and it becomes legal target. That´s why counterartillery against enemy battery is not crime from the side of the counter action, but the crime is commited by the one who attacks from the close proximity or from within protected area/people.Yes but again, I have seen no proof that the Lebanese civilians killed were in the immediate proximity of Hezbollah rocket launchers.

And if the fighters do not wear insignia that clearly separates them from the civvies, they are responsible if some (un)armed civilian men are shot during the heat of the battler (though of course, the soldiers must try to kill only the true enemies).Mayhaps. But I'm not sure the "law of warfare" (the Geneva Conventions perhaps?) state that resistance movements are obliged to wear insignia.

In Afganistan the basic Taliban fighters werent considered to be "illegal combatants" as they wore distinct "uniform", the black turbans/black outfit and because they were native Afgans and couldnt be blamed to be mecenaries or foreign fighters/terrorists.I see.

[Oluf]

I still have not seen a credible source that Hetbollah fighters were indeed hiding among civilians. I have seen videos of them shooting missiles or rockets from what appeared to be civilian buildings. But how do we know that those buildings had not been abandoned by the civilians? Historically, in most wars, when soldiers seize a civilian building, the civilians leave willingly or because they are forced to.

On the other hand, I have PROOF THAT ISRAELIS WERE "HIDING BEHIND CIVILIANS".


Well the big problem is always to determinate what is a credible source.

In my opinion the reality and hence the “proof” is far more simple than to find a credible source. Even if we imagine that the Israelis are horrible bastards that would love to kill busloads of innocent Lebanese women and children; it would create such a scandal that it would work against their goals (and it did), and sincerely spoken; don’t you think that if Israel really wanted to kill innocent civilians, they would have killed much more than what they did.

Therefore; 1 It is not in Israel’s interest (not at all) to kill civilians. 2 If this was the goal the “score” would obviously have been much higher.
On the other hand; it was certainly in Hezbollah’s interest (in order to protect themselves) to hide among the Lebanese civilians (and they did).
Actually what is really bothering me with Hezbollah and other groups is not that they want to kill Israelis but the usage of their own civilians as shields and the usage of children in the conflict. This in my opinion is a sign of a complete lack respect for innocent lives.

[Oluf]

So can you tell me, which Israeli soldier is punished for killing civilians in Lebanon last year ?

No unfortunately I cannot, but I cannot either remember a Hezbollah being punished for killing innocent Israelis during the conflict.

On the other hand, there have been several Israeli military prosecuted and punished for criminal actions in the Gaza strip and on the West Bank. Here also we are waiting for the first Palestinian (Arab) being prosecuted (by the Palestinian authority) for actions towards Israeli civilians.

[payam]

This is really dumb. It's more logical to give someone incentive to confess by decreasing the punishment. Otherwise, nobody would ever confess, except for idiots.

IN police station they will take care of the guy to say all he knows.means he will confess there surly. but what i talked about is in court of justice. if he deny it even if we all know he is lieing,then he is out of ''stoning to death'' punishment.But also we'll not let him be free.he must go to jail directly.
AS i said stoing to death is just to create a serious view against such dirty sexual behaviours.by then all will understand there is no joking for this.
As i know and read from a website a victim of these devils will never accept herself as a true guy in society,and it will bother her for ever.It's like killing her for years...

[mustavaris]

@ Mohmar 'Deathstrike'

I am not talking about specific incident(s), but general way how the law of warfare is interpreted, Geneva Conventions are just part of them. The non-formal militaries/factions are bound by the same rules if they want to enjoy the privileges of legal combatants. The practise does not require uniforms, they just have to make clear who is combatant and who is not. Be that armband, scarf or whatever - as long as it is clearly visible and one can recognize them as combatants(Mahdi army´s all black clad militias for example).

And when talking about reactionary use of force, it does not matter whether the enemy is legal combatant or not, the burden of responsibility is theirs. You are allowed to take down the sniper from that centuries old tower or mosque no matter what kind of moron (s)he is. Of course, those who make the decision must weight other alternatives than a JDAM, but they are in no-way bound to use anything less than needed violence. If they estimate that the risks of other alternatives are too high, they can bomb that tower into rubbles. You may even do that if you just see that sniper there and you know that he ain´t on your side. The existence of enemy force strips away the protected status and the one who violates the protected status for the first time is the one who is responsible if innocents/protected buildings get hit.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Well the big problem is always to determinate what is a credible source.Video footage perhaps, or multiple reporters working for different agencies reporting these events that they witnessed, not them repeating what some official said.

In my opinion the reality and hence the “proof” is far more simple than to find a credible source.Huh?

Even if we imagine that the Israelis are horrible bastards that would love to kill busloads of innocent Lebanese women and children; it would create such a scandal that it would work against their goals (and it did), and sincerely spoken; don’t you think that if Israel really wanted to kill innocent civilians, they would have killed much more than what they did.Since Hezbollah-supporting civilian areas were hit harder than others it's possible they only wanted to hit some civilians. Also, they clearly didn't care about civilian casualties even if they didn't specifically want them.

Therefore; 1 It is not in Israel’s interest (not at all) to kill civilians. 2 If this was the goal the “score” would obviously have been much higher.On the whole, that's true.

On the other hand; it was certainly in Hezbollah’s interest (in order to protect themselves) to hide among the Lebanese civilians (and they did).Again, no sources given. And also, no it wouldn't be in their interest because Lebanese civilians may not like being in the line of fire and therefore lessen support for Hezbollah.


Actually what is really bothering me with Hezbollah and other groups is not that they want to kill Israelis but the usage of their own civilians as shields and the usage of children in the conflict.Have you even looked at the picture I posted? Israeli children within an artillery unit, a legitimate target. You on the other hand have posted nothing.


This in my opinion is a sign of a complete lack respect for innocent lives.Indeed.
On the other hand, there have been several Israeli military prosecuted and punished for criminal actions in the Gaza strip and on the West Bank. Here also we are waiting for the first Palestinian (Arab) being prosecuted (by the Palestinian authority) for actions towards Israeli civilians.There have been many instances in which Palestinian security forces foiled Hamas and Islamic Jihad attacks on Israeli positions during the Arafat-era, often losing their own lives.IN police station they will take care of the guy to say all he knows.means he will confess there surly.How do you know?

but what i talked about is in court of justice. if he deny it even if we all know he is lieing,then he is out of ''stoning to death'' punishment.But also we'll not let him be free.he must go to jail directly.Again, this is counterproductive, because few people would confess in such a system. Basically, this system rewards lying and punishes honesty.@ Mohmar 'Deathstrike'

I am not talking about specific incident(s), but general way how the law of warfare is interpreted, Geneva Conventions are just part of them. The non-formal militaries/factions are bound by the same rules if they want to enjoy the privileges of legal combatants. The practise does not require uniforms, they just have to make clear who is combatant and who is not. Be that armband, scarf or whatever - as long as it is clearly visible and one can recognize them as combatants(Mahdi army´s all black clad militias for example).

And when talking about reactionary use of force, it does not matter whether the enemy is legal combatant or not, the burden of responsibility is theirs. You are allowed to take down the sniper from that centuries old tower or mosque no matter what kind of moron (s)he is. Of course, those who make the decision must weight other alternatives than a JDAM, but they are in no-way bound to use anything less than needed violence. If they estimate that the risks of other alternatives are too high, they can bomb that tower into rubbles. You may even do that if you just see that sniper there and you know that he ain´t on your side. The existence of enemy force strips away the protected status and the one who violates the protected status for the first time is the one who is responsible if innocents/protected buildings get hit.Of course, but whoever blows up the ancient tower or mosque must also be prepared for reprisals by people who liked the tower, which may not have occured if they had counter-sniped the sniper, leaving the structure intact.

[mustavaris]

Of course, but whoever blows up the ancient tower or mosque must also be prepared for reprisals by people who liked the tower, which may not have occured if they had counter-sniped the sniper, leaving the structure intact.

Yes of course, but that is not a legal matter but matter of tactics applied to reach the goals set by the strategy. In many cases the overwhelming violence is not wise even though it were legal. Many legal deeds are stupid, and if it is legal it doesnt necesserily mean that it is a right thing to do. That´s where the commanding officers and individual soldiers must be able to judge their deeds and do what they have to.. to accomplish the mission with the least possible amount of damage and violence.

[makepeace]

Inshallah all the people that defend crimes against humanity will be punished by Allah on judgement day

[payam]

Inshallah all the people that defend crimes against humanity will be punished by Allah on judgement day

Yes inshallah.But also i hope befor judgment day they back to the true way of allah.I hope nobody defend crimes against humanity and getting angry of punishing some criminals.

[Iranian Guards]

these are the enemies of the islamic republic of iran.

[mustavaris]

Yes inshallah.But also i hope befor judgment day they back to the true way of allah.I hope nobody defend crimes against humanity and getting angry of punishing some criminals.

Is adultery a crime against humanity or were you refering to some other crime mentioned in this thread?

[mustavaris]

these are the enemies of the islamic republic of iran.

If these people are such enemies of I.R.Iran that they have to be executed.. does not sound very good for Iran.

[abu sulayman]

According to the Quran, the punishment for adultery cannot be carried out unless there are 4 credible eyewitnesses to the act. It cannot be based on circumstantial evidence, nor on innuendo.

If there are not 4 credible eyewitnesses to the physical act, then the person bringing the accusation recieves 70 lashes.

This was brought about to protect women from false charges, and also to safeguard to ensure that immorality did not become commonplace.

In each of the cases in the Muslim world that has recieved worldwide attention, there were no 4 credible witnesses to the act brought forth.

Unless a couple is copulating in public, it cannot be enforced, so these cases are simply cases of opressing women.