VIDEO - Not so cool facts about Israel

[KingoftheHill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkoLOicQ-og

[NEWUSER]

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Israel the Racist Apartheid Zionists State: Made In USA!

[KingoftheHill]

I take it you enjoyed the video bro? :biggrin1:

[NEWUSER]

^^ Very good find... The video does a very good job as exposing the lies of Israeli's democracy. Israel is nothing but a Racist Apartheid Zionists State.

[PruneJuice]

Infant killing tear gas ?

[NEWUSER]

Infant killing tear gas ?

http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1988/04/mm0488_07.html

[Tallgeese]

One can't deny all these facts about Israel. Yet the biggest irony remains that when you ask Americans why they support Israel they reply "because Israel is a democracy" only when you explain what 'democracy' is (self-government, or 'people electing government') then you can replace the word 'democracy' with 'because they elect their own governments'

They say, "I support Israel 'because they elect their own governments'" which is ironic because it goes to show that they don't truely understand what democracy is all about.

[apple_fritta]

This Thread Should Be Pinned!!!!!!!!!!!!!


my mistake it already is pinned!!! SORRY! IGNORE THIS POST!!!

[Oriellien]

One can't deny all these facts about Israel. Yet the biggest irony remains that when you ask Americans why they support Israel they reply "because Israel is a democracy" only when you explain what 'democracy' is (self-government, or 'people electing government') then you can replace the word 'democracy' with 'because they elect their own governments'

They say, "I support Israel 'because they elect their own governments'" which is ironic because it goes to show that they don't truely understand what democracy is all about.

Have you personally asked an American why they support Israel?

[AL-EH]

bump this post needs more heat in my signiture it goes.

[Ricardo]

One can't deny all these facts about Israel. Yet the biggest irony remains that when you ask Americans why they support Israel they reply "because Israel is a democracy" only when you explain what 'democracy' is (self-government, or 'people electing government') then you can replace the word 'democracy' with 'because they elect their own governments'

They say, "I support Israel 'because they elect their own governments'" which is ironic because it goes to show that they don't truely understand what democracy is all about.

I saw a guy in this forum saying he supports Israel becuse jesus was a jew:laugh4:

He probably doesnt know who killed Jesus :P

But yes that's one of their most common explanations.

[mango994]

One very cool fact about Iran:

Iran expelled millions of arabs from its territory and settled Persians instead, and all by the government's order.

Look at yourselves first, hypocrites?

[Persianbob]

One can't deny all these facts about Israel. Yet the biggest irony remains that when you ask Americans why they support Israel they reply "because Israel is a democracy" only when you explain what 'democracy' is (self-government, or 'people electing government') then you can replace the word 'democracy' with 'because they elect their own governments'

They say, "I support Israel 'because they elect their own governments'" which is ironic because it goes to show that they don't truely understand what democracy is all about.
I have asked, most of them say they do not know, well american public are the most naive people regarding world politics so most of the world, but it is changing I hope we will have leaders that their noses have no ring and chain
and not pulled by foreign interests.

[Kiaar]

I saw a guy in this forum saying he supports Israel becuse jesus was a jew:laugh4:

He probably doesnt know who killed Jesus :P

But yes that's one of their most common explanations.

Actually Roman soldiers killed Jesus.

The Jews "turned him in" so to speak, but they didn't actually kill him. Crucifying people was an extremely common practice in ancient Rome for people who didn't obey the laws or who caused unrest.

[Zraver]

Actually Roman soldiers killed Jesus.

The Jews "turned him in" so to speak, but they didn't actually kill him. Crucifying people was an extremely common practice in ancient Rome for people who didn't obey the laws or who caused unrest.


Actually no one killed him, he gave up the ghost. This suprised the Romans who had to break the legs of the thieves so they would die from suffocation. To make sure he wasn't faking they pierced his side with a spear thus fullfilling prophecy that the messiah would be hung on a tree (the cross) and that none of his bones would be broken (the nails going between the 2 lower arms bones).

As an American I support Israel becuase as ME goverments go they are the closest to democracy and while the society is weighted in favor of Jews, Israeli Arabs do have the vote and have seats in the Knesset. This is the same reason I prefer Iran over almost any Arab state excepting Jordan and Quatar which are making moves towards a modern society.

I also limit my pity for the Palestinians beucase they don't want peace, when they come to the table honestly then they will get my support.

[Kermanshah1]

One very cool fact about Iran:

Iran expelled millions of arabs from its territory and settled Persians instead, and all by the government's order.

Look at yourselves first, hypocrites?

Never happened.

[indianguy]

So any one can say here ..

Why Americans love Israel ? Is this related to religion from anywhere ?

[apple_fritta]

Actually no one killed him, he gave up the ghost. This suprised the Romans who had to break the legs of the thieves so they would die from suffocation. To make sure he wasn't faking they pierced his side with a spear thus fullfilling prophecy that the messiah would be hung on a tree (the cross) and that none of his bones would be broken (the nails going between the 2 lower arms bones).

As an American I support Israel becuase as ME goverments go they are the closest to democracy and while the society is weighted in favor of Jews, Israeli Arabs do have the vote and have seats in the Knesset. This is the same reason I prefer Iran over almost any Arab state excepting Jordan and Quatar which are making moves towards a modern society.

I also limit my pity for the Palestinians beucase they don't want peace, when they come to the table honestly then they will get my support.

and it's your support yassar arafat died trying to achieve..... go to sleep.

[indianguy]

One can't deny all these facts about Israel. Yet the biggest irony remains that when you ask Americans why they support Israel they reply "because Israel is a democracy" only when you explain what 'democracy' is (self-government, or 'people electing government') then you can replace the word 'democracy' with 'because they elect their own governments'

They say, "I support Israel 'because they elect their own governments'" which is ironic because it goes to show that they don't truely understand what democracy is all about.

Something more interesting about Israeli Democracy.

Who really rules Israel?


Jewish state controlled by four informal networks, not by government

Gabriel Sheffer Published: 09.28.07, 19:04 / Israel Opinion

In light of the battle between Olmert, Netanyahu and Barak for the next premiership, the public debate focuses on the question on who of these three politicians is the "strong leader" many Israelis yearn for. At the same time, the failures of all Israeli leaders throughout history and their inability to implement their policies are attributed to a series of elements, including political instability, the plethora of parties, and the low popularity of all government institutions.

However, despite the weakness of leaders and the Knesset, policy is still formulated and decisions are still being taken both on the diplomatic and local level. This gives rise to the following question: Who rules the State of Israel? If we closely examine the state of our political system, and particularly the question of who rules Israel in practice, which is something that is not done often, a disturbing picture emerges:

Four informal "networks," which are unelected and often act surreptitiously, rule Israel, with "strong leaders" associated with them to some extent and even being controlled by them. The membership of these networks is not permanent and their makeup changes. Yet the members of these networks have a joint agenda, common ideological and practical perceptions, joint interests, common ways of acting, and the ability to influence public opinion, and of course influence politicians.

The defense network is made up of senior military officers, both past and present, heads of the secret services and police, and business owners in the security sphere. The members of this network have determined the political and military moves en route to all our wars, and between them. They are both leftist and rightist (as of late, there are more rightist and religious ones) and also took part in important political moves and in the peace process.

In addition, they are also intimately involved in economic, political, and cultural developments that pertain to the defense establishment. It is no secret that most Israeli prime ministers, even if not all of them, were members of this network. There was not always agreement between them and between those serving in the defense establishment during their tenure, but ultimately they acted together – and this can be clearly seen when we examine the evacuation of southern Lebanon, the disengagement from Gaza, the security fence, etc.

The capitalist network is made up of the 12 or 18 wealthiest families in Israel, as well as the large business owners. Its members are interested in the continuation of privatization processes, low taxation levels, low salary levels, etc. The members of this network are connected to senior politicians who enjoy their assistance and are willing to maintain neo-liberal policies, which led to great destruction of the Israeli welfare state and huge gaps between the highest and lowest echelons.

The strictly Orthodox rabbinical network is relatively small, and its members share common interests in all matters pertaining to the relationship between religion and state. They influence, and in fact determine, matters of personal status, yeshiva students' exemption from military service, conversion policy, attitude to foreign workers, and to a growing extent our policy in the territories.

The network of senior bureaucratic officials is particularly important. Its most prominent members include senior Treasury, Bank of Israel, Defense Ministry and Education Ministry officials. On the one hand, they are the ones who determine and formulate most of the important decisions and laws passed by the Knesset, and on the other hand they have the power to torpedo decisions and laws, particularly through inaction.


All Israeli prime ministers and senior ministers in recent decades were connected to or members of these networks. The three candidates for the next premiership are also connected to these networks: Benjamin Netanyahu is affiliated with the capitalist and Orthodox networks. Ehud Olmert is also affiliated with the capitalist and Orthodox networks. Meanwhile, Ehud Barak is associated with the defense and capitalist networks.

The three of them have attempted to, and will continue to attempt to, cultivate their relations with the network of senior bureaucratic officials.


This is one of the major problems of Israeli democracy. Until it gives power to the representatives of the genuine sovereign – the people – Israeli democracy will suffer from these ills, and even talented and inspirational leaders who subscribe to ideology that meets the needs of the people won't be able to function properly.


The writer is a professor at the Hebrew University's political science department and a senior research fellow at the Van Leer Institute

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3452359,00.html

[Merchbanks]

What a bunch of crap.

It is very easy to say " Israel doing this Israel done that " without giving the reason for doing so.

The " PER CAPITA " presented in there is just hilarious.
It might be just a mistake but it only shows the amount of information the guy who made this movie have.

[Kermanshah1]

What a bunch of crap.

It is very easy to say " Israel doing this Israel done that " without giving the reason for doing so.

The " PER CAPITA " presented in there is just hilarious.
It might be just a mistake but it only shows the amount of information the guy who made this movie have.

No reason justifies these evil deeds by the Zionist entity.

[Merchbanks]

No reason justifies these evil deeds by the Zionist entity.

I can pass every single claim in this movie and give it a justification.

[Kermanshah1]

I can pass every single claim in this movie and give it a justification.

You can give a justification to these things but that doesn't chagne that all these things are bad things. Normal countries don't do these kind of things.

[Merchbanks]

You can give a justification to these things but that doesn't chagne that all these things are bad things. Normal countries don't do these kind of things.

Normal countries are not in the place Israel is in.
Special conditions requires special measurments.

No one in here wanted to destroy civilian facillities or to kill terrorists in Gaza. Reallity forced us to do so.

Thats the bottom line. Israelis are not bad people who wants to kill innocent people, we does not want to occupey to West Bank, reallity FORCED and is forcing it on us, cause without us doing so our situation will be much worse.

[apple_fritta]

Normal countries are not in the place Israel is in.
Special conditions requires special measurments.

No one in here wanted to destroy civilian facillities or to kill terrorists in Gaza. Reallity forced us to do so.

Thats the bottom line. Israelis are not bad people who wants to kill innocent people, we does not want to occupey to West Bank, reallity FORCED and is forcing it on us, cause without us doing so our situation will be much worse.

Rightfully so.....

[Vladimir80]

No one in here wanted to destroy civilian facillities or to kill terrorists in Gaza. Reallity forced us to do so.

Really? You deliberatly targeted their power station and their airport. :roflmao3:

[M Nabil]

Normal countries are not in the place Israel is in.


Zionists put themselves in this position by usurping the land of Palestine.

[Vladimir80]

Zionists put themselves in this position by usurping the land of Palestine.

Yeah, no one asked them to go there.

[Kermanshah1]

Normal countries are not in the place Israel is in.

I know, no-one invades a country, ethnicly cleans the native population,then attacks the neighbours and builds nukes

Special conditions requires special measurments.

Like destroying peoples houses and forcing them out of the country to make place for Jewish settlers.

No one in here wanted to destroy civilian facillities or to kill terrorists in Gaza. Reallity forced us to do so.

That's why your forces deliberetly targetted civilians.

Thats the bottom line. Israelis are not bad people who wants to kill innocent people, we does not want to occupey to West Bank, reallity FORCED and is forcing it on us, cause without us doing so our situation will be much worse.

It is not only the West Bank you ar occupying, the whole country you call Israel is occupied land, it belongs to the Palestinians but it is under occupation and you can't say you didn't want to do that. And what does this supposed to mean: without us doing so our situation will be much worse. ?

[Request 1]

Despite all these true facts, I cannot believe some people still support Zionism. I bet if those people were in the Palestinian's shoes then hell they'd be slapping themselves. And America supports Israel because the whole country is overun by Zionists, Believe me, I know. Oh yeah, and to some people on this forum, there is a big difference between a Zionist and a Jew.

[IR.IRAN]

Despite all these true facts, I cannot believe some people still support Zionism. I bet if those people were in the Palestinian's shoes then hell they'd be slapping themselves. And America supports Israel because the whole country is overun by Zionists, Believe me, I know. Oh yeah, and to some people on this forum, there is a big difference between a Zionist and a Jew.

those that support the zionist state and know all its atrocities are either brainwashed or no different from the people that commit such disgusting actions..

[Ya2]

Despite all these true facts, I cannot believe some people still support Zionism. I bet if those people were in the Palestinian's shoes then hell they'd be slapping themselves. And America supports Israel because the whole country is overun by Zionists, Believe me, I know. Oh yeah, and to some people on this forum, there is a big difference between a Zionist and a Jew.

haha did you think before you typed?

There are no "zionists" in america cause if someone was "zionist" he would be in Israel..

[M Nabil]

haha did you think before you typed?

There are no "zionists" in america cause if someone was "zionist" he would be in Israel..

What makes you think so ?

A Zionist is someone who believes in Zionism and supports israel, he does not have to live in israel, he does not even have to be a Jew.

[Kermanshah1]

Despite all these true facts, I cannot believe some people still support Zionism. I bet if those people were in the Palestinian's shoes then hell they'd be slapping themselves. And America supports Israel because the whole country is overun by Zionists, Believe me, I know. Oh yeah, and to some people on this forum, there is a big difference between a Zionist and a Jew.

If it were two other countries and exactly the same situation the US wouldn't have acted this way.

[Request 1]

haha did you think before you typed?

There are no "zionists" in america cause if someone was "zionist" he would be in Israel..

Oh....well ok, what I meant to say was that the United States is overun by Zionist Supporters.

They have control over the government and the economy. So even if the whole damn U.S. population of non-government officials is against Zionism, do you think that would matter? There are plenty of people here who are against it, they go on protests and have demonstarations, but do you see any changes?

[indianguy]

haha did you think before you typed?

There are no "zionists" in america cause if someone was "zionist" he would be in Israel..

No you are completely unaware of yours own Organizations.

Zionist Organization of America was founded in 1897 ,Under the leadership of such illustrious presidents as Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, Rabbi Dr. Abba Hillel Silver, and current National President Morton A. Klein, the ZOA has been on the front lines of Jewish activism.

With a national membership of over 30,000, and chapters throughout the United States (including Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles, Miami, Milwaukee, North Jersey, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, South Jersey and Washington D.C.), the ZOA today works to strengthen US-Israeli relations, through educational activities, public affairs programs, working every day on Capitol Hill, and by combating anti-Israel bias in the media, textbooks, and on campuses.

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is a controversial American special interest group that lobbies the United States Congress and White House in favor of maintaining a close U.S.-Israel relationship. Describing itself as "America's Pro-Israel Lobby," it is a mass-membership organization including Democrats, Republicans, and independents. AIPAC was formed during the Eisenhower administration, and since then has helped secure American aid and support to Israel. In 1997, Fortune magazine asked Congressmen to rank the "25 most powerful" lobbying organizations in DC. In 2005, the National Journal did the same. Both times, AIPAC came in 2nd - ahead of, for instance, the AFL-CIO and the NRA, but behind the AARP. In 2001, it came in 4th on the Fortune list.

Ameinu, founded in 2003 as the successor to the Labor Zionist Alliance, is the continuation of Labor Zionist activity in the United States that began with the founding of Poale Zion in 1905. With national headquarters in New York, local activity is carried out through chapters in Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Washington DC, as well as New York.

Facts and Logic About the Middle East (or FLAME) is a non-profit pro-Israel organization based in San Francisco, California.

The International Fellowship of Christians & Jews (IFCJ) is a world-wide organization whose goal is "to promote understanding and cooperation between Jews and Christians and to build broad support for the State of Israel and other shared concerns."

The organization was founded in 1983 as The Holyland Fellowship of Christians & Jews and was renamed to its current name in 1991. It has headquarters in Chicago and Jerusalem. It is supervised by an independent board of directors and is led by its founder and president, Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein.


There are many more organizations in America ..

Not all zionists came to Israel ,still there are many Zionists who are in America who support Israel from outside. and this is the only reason that Americans cant understand what is going on in Palestine coz Jewish lobby has established itself in American Politics and Americans more or less work against their interest and work more for Israel's Interest.

[Vladimir80]

haha did you think before you typed?

There are no "zionists" in america cause if someone was "zionist" he would be in Israel..

There are plenty of Zionists in America and Russia recruiting and raising money for their cause.

[worldleader]

it's because the two superpowers allowed the minority jews to leech off their largesse that zionist state of israel could emerge. though not everybody actually recognizes it.

[Ya2]

There are plenty of Zionists in America and Russia recruiting and raising money for their cause.

There are many Jewish people (6 millions +-) in the USA.. alot will never move here..
Zion = The Land of Israel
Zionist = guy who lives or plans to very soon live in Israel..

[M Nabil]

There are many Jewish people (6 millions +-) in the USA.. alot will never move here..
Zion = The Land of Israel
Zionist = guy who lives or plans to very soon live in Israel..

No !

Zionist = Someone who believes in Zionism and supports israel.



Haven't you heard of Christian Zionism ?

[chaos]

havnt u heard about zion?

[Kermanshah1]

Originally Posted by Bumble Bee :
Should Iran develop a weapon to destroy these ratholes as well?
Originally Posted by the witness :
God is going to make this into a lake of fire, and the rats will be routed out of their holes, there will be no where to hide.

Were these references to Israel?

[Iranian Guards]

actually jews are not the problem. the problem are... indeed, the zionists. someday they will fall hard on their nose.

[indianguy]

There are many Jewish people (6 millions +-) in the USA.. alot will never move here..
Zion = The Land of Israel
Zionist = guy who lives or plans to very soon live in Israel..

Zion = originally referred to a specific mountain near Jerusalem (Mount Zion), on which stood a Jebusite fortress of the same name that was conquered by David and was named the City of David.

Jerus (in the form Uru-sa-lim) is the oldest name we know for this city; it goes back at least 400 years before David. In 2 Sam 5:6-9, "The king and his men went to Jerusalem against the Jebusites. .... Nevertheless David took the stronghold of Zion; the same is the city of David .... And David dwelt in the stronghold, and called it the city of David." It is evident that Zion was the name of the citadel of the Jebusite city of Jerusalem.
Meaning of the Word Zion.

A name applied to Jerusalem, or to certain parts of it, at least since the time of David. Nothing certain is known of the meaning. Gesenius and others have derived it from a Hebrew root tsahah, "to be dry"; Delitzsch from tsiwwah, "to set up" and Wetzstein from tsin, "to protect." Gesenius finds a more hopeful suggestion in the Arabic equivalent cihw, the Arabic cahwat signifying "ridge of a mountain" or "citadel," which at any rate suitably applies to what we know to have been the original Zion.

http://net.bible.org/dictionary.php?dict=dictionaries&word=Zion

[Grutte Pier]

That one saying Israel is the only country occupieng a whole other country isn't right. I'm not trying to sound pro-Israel (I'm not, and never will be), but China occupies Tibet and that is also a bad thing. And America didn't treat their natives very good either... :(

I'm still anti-Israel, but just wanted you to know this! :D

Oh, and which ******* has removed the attached video from youtube?

[chaos]

Were these references to Israel?

does it really matter? maybe to israel and maybe about nice tiny cat. the statements are still idiotic.

[Kiaar]

That one saying Israel is the only country occupieng a whole other country isn't right. I'm not trying to sound pro-Israel (I'm not, and never will be), but China occupies Tibet and that is also a bad thing. And America didn't treat their natives very good either... :(

I'm still anti-Israel, but just wanted you to know this! :D

Oh, and which ******* has removed the attached video from youtube?

To be technical about it there are probably very few countries in existance that haven't, at one point or another, occupied another at some point.

[chaos]

actually jews are not the problem. the problem are... indeed, the zionists. someday they will fall hard on their nose.

no, we are here forever.

they will fall hard on their nose.

im sorry that we have big nose, and we are not ****ing hot as you, u sex machine. u should go to americas next top model program. ^^

[Kermanshah1]

That one saying Israel is the only country occupieng a whole other country isn't right. I'm not trying to sound pro-Israel (I'm not, and never will be), but China occupies Tibet and that is also a bad thing. And America didn't treat their natives very good either... :(

I'm still anti-Israel, but just wanted you to know this! :D

Oh, and which ******* has removed the attached video from youtube?

Tibet is not a country.

[Grutte Pier]

Tibet is not a country.

Oh yes it is. It used to be, until China forcefully took what didn't belong to them. Tibetans are a peaceful people, and the Chinese occupy them. Do not denie this; it is the truth and nothing but the truth. People who see it as a province of China see it wrong; it isn't. It is a country taken by China. :worried2:

[Kermanshah1]

Oh yes it is. It used to be, until China forcefully took what didn't belong to them. Tibetans are a peaceful people, and the Chinese occupy them. Do not denie this; it is the truth and nothing but the truth. People who see it as a province of China see it wrong; it isn't. It is a country taken by China. :worried2:

Tibet was never a proper country, it belongs and has always belonged to China, when there was civil war in China the British tried and make Tibet a separate country to weaken China but the Chinese just sh*tted on them and took it back.

[Grutte Pier]

Tibet was never a proper country, it belongs and has always belonged to China, when there was civil war in China the British tried and make Tibet a separate country to weaken China but the Chinese just sh*tted on them and took it back.

China is strong enough. Tibet deserves regaining it's independence back. The Chinese are, or used to do terrible things over there to the Tibetans, somehow similiar to the way Israeli do that. The Tibetans are a peaceloving people; they usually don't fight back, but non-violently oppose Chinese rule, in a way Indians under Gandhi did that. And the Chinese are calling the leader of this non-violent rebellion, the Dalai Lama, a terrorist, which he's not. I respect Tibet's resistance, and sincerey hope that one day justice will be done and Tibet will be free once again (same goes for Palestine).

[not-now]

oh my god those facts and pictures are so heartbreaking :(
I hope palestine is free soon.
It's a shame the west never condemns israel for these atrocities.

[Zraver]

Tibet was never a proper country, it belongs and has always belonged to China, when there was civil war in China the British tried and make Tibet a separate country to weaken China but the Chinese just sh*tted on them and took it back.

No Tibet was taken over by chin and made a vassal state in the 17th century but Tibet has always been Tibet.

Not only does China occupy all of Tibet but Palestine was never a country and officially rejected statehood.

Aparthied countries

A-The EU et al. Try being an Arab or African immigrant and getting your citizenship.

B-Iran- sunni, Christian, Zorostarian, and Jews are prevented from attaining the highest levels in society.

C-Most of the CGG countries- migrant workers are kept seperated and even children born there are not entilted to citizenship in the land of thier birth.

Only nation occupying the homes of living refugees

A- Most Moslem countries kicked thier Jews out in th 50's and 60's without compensation. I highly doubt those homes are standing empty today.

B- At the end of WW2 the border of Germany were forcibly moved and the ethnic Germans were kicked out- 8 million people 7x more than Palestine.

Most of the claims can be easily refuted by anyone with a brain.

[Joćo]

Not only does China occupy all of Tibet but Palestine was never a country and officially rejected statehood.

Not even the Dalai Lama wants a seperate Tibet, the most they ask for is some degree of autonomy.



Aparthied countries

A-The EU et al. Try being an Arab or African immigrant and getting your citizenship.

The EU isn't even remotely practicing any form of appartheid, I don't think this statement even deserves a response.

B-Iran- sunni, Christian, Zorostarian, and Jews are prevented from attaining the highest levels in society.

Irans not an appartheid state. The worse they do in Iran is not allow non-Shias to run for the presidency and a few other offices. Israel on the other hand is a savage appartheid state.

93% of the land for example is nationalized and can't be leased to Arabs. A Jew with no connection to the Middle East that lives in Lithuania can lease the land, but not an Arab citizen of Israel. It's virtually impossible for Arabs to even get building permits. And then Israel has a policy of labeling jobs "security related". Virtually every professional job is labeled so. Arabs aren't allowed to work in those jobs. So even something like the textile industry Arabs are barred from. They're forced into low paying jobs, even Arabs with professional degrees. Arabs also can't have a professional class. So for example if an Arab gets an engineering degree, he wouldn't be able to get a job because all of the engineering jobs are labeled "security related". This forces them to not develope a professional class. The examples are countless.

So you can't compare Iran with a savage appartheid regime like that of Israel.



B- At the end of WW2 the border of Germany were forcibly moved and the ethnic Germans were kicked out- 8 million people 7x more than Palestine.


So if they were kicked out of Germany, why not ask the Germans to carve out a country for them out of German land? If indeed the crime was commited against your people in the heart of Europe, why commit a crime in the Middle East and carve out land because you were treated like **** in another continent?

[Kermanshah1]

No Tibet was taken over by chin and made a vassal state in the 17th century but Tibet has always been Tibet.

Not only does China occupy all of Tibet but Palestine was never a country and officially rejected statehood.

Aparthied countries

A-The EU et al. Try being an Arab or African immigrant and getting your citizenship.

B-Iran- sunni, Christian, Zorostarian, and Jews are prevented from attaining the highest levels in society.

C-Most of the CGG countries- migrant workers are kept seperated and even children born there are not entilted to citizenship in the land of thier birth.

Only nation occupying the homes of living refugees

A- Most Moslem countries kicked thier Jews out in th 50's and 60's without compensation. I highly doubt those homes are standing empty today.

B- At the end of WW2 the border of Germany were forcibly moved and the ethnic Germans were kicked out- 8 million people 7x more than Palestine.

Most of the claims can be easily refuted by anyone with a brain.

Palestine might have not been an indipendent nation, but it existed non the less. And the fact the Jews were kicked out was entirely their own fault. Historically Jews have been treated much better in Islamic nations than in christian nations but because of the creation of Israel they have become very hated.
And look what happened to Egypt when they put Jews on hight positions... Iran has learned not only from it's own mistakes (trust America, trust the Army, ect.) but also from other counties mistakes...

There is no apartheid in the EU, and there are many Blacks and Arabs here that have citizenship. But yes there is a lot of racism under the people and there are racist politicians like Geert Wilders wich if he doesn't get killed before he comes to power like his precedor Pim Fortuyn, would definetly introduce apartheid laws. Only the fact is, that right now they are not officially discriminated and the kind of things that happen in Israel do not happen in the EU.

But I think there is actually more racism in America, specially in the South with all those red-necks.

[Kalfus]

Well said. And yes, like any other human, Palestinians have the right to exist.

[Zraver]

Palestine might have not been an indipendent nation, but it existed non the less.

how so? more than half are immigrants from the same era as the Jewish immigration and in about the same numbers. This if 600,000 imigratns can form with a pre-exisitng nucleus and form a nation- the so can the 600,000 jews.


And the fact the Jews were kicked out was entirely their own fault.

No it wasn't, Jews living in Arab lands ha dno connection to European Jews until forced out.

Historically Jews have been treated much better in Islamic nations than in christian nations but because of the creation of Israel they have become very hated.

If you call codified second class status good treatment I guess your right.

And look what happened to Egypt when they put Jews on hight positions... Iran has learned not only from it's own mistakes (trust America, trust the Army, ect.) but also from other counties mistakes...

Egypt- Jews huh some background please.

There is no apartheid in the EU, and there are many Blacks and Arabs here that have citizenship. But yes there is a lot of racism under the people and there are racist politicians like Geert Wilders wich if he doesn't get killed before he comes to power like his precedor Pim Fortuyn, would definetly introduce apartheid laws. Only the fact is, that right now they are not officially discriminated and the kind of things that happen in Israel do not happen in the EU.

Check out the German green-card system. immigrants are excluded form gaining citizenship. Thus they cannot vote or even have a political voice, are underpaid/over worked and forced into slums.

But I think there is actually more racism in America, specially in the South with all those red-necks.

America has its problems but Europe is worse.

Parkridge48,

Not even the Dalai Lama wants a seperate Tibet, the most they ask for is some degree of autonomy.


http://www.tibet.com/ the official government in exile website

This site is maintained and updated by The Office of Tibet, the official agency of His Holiness the Dalai Lama in London. This Web page may be linked to any other Web sites. Contents may not be altered. Page design by John Emerson. Website storage by Aristotle Internet Access.

Irans not an appartheid state. The worse they do in Iran is not allow non-Shias to run for the presidency and a few other offices. Israel on the other hand is a savage appartheid state.

lets look at the definition of apparthied

a social policy or racial segregation involving political and economic and legal discrimination against people who are not Whites; the former official policy in South Africa
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I hate to burst your bubble but aside from the white requirement (not applicable in Israel either) iran meets all the requirements.
A- non shia cannot hold the reigns of power
B- non-shia are excluded from the mainstream economy
c- non-muslims have a codified second class status and do not enjoy religious freedom, only religious tolerance within very narrow guidelines.

93% of the land for example is nationalized and can't be leased to Arabs. A Jew with no connection to the Middle East that lives in Lithuania can lease the land, but not an Arab citizen of Israel.

source?

[qoute]And then Israel has a policy of labeling jobs "security related". Virtually every professional job is labeled so. Arabs aren't allowed to work in those jobs. So even something like the textile industry Arabs are barred from. They're forced into low paying jobs, even Arabs with professional degrees. Arabs also can't have a professional class. So for example if an Arab gets an engineering degree, he wouldn't be able to get a job because all of the engineering jobs are labeled "security related". This forces them to not develope a professional class. The examples are countless.[/quote]

Not really

1- arab men have similar unemployment rates as the rest of Israel, but since only 17% of women work the unemployment rate gets artificially inflated

Arabs have the highest home ownership rates in Israel

there is an Arab on Israel's supreme court.

I am not saying Israel doe snot have issues, it obviously does, bit not out of proportion to the rest of the developed world and the Muslim world.

So you can't compare Iran with a savage appartheid regime like that of Israel

Actually I can and did. There is fundamentally no difference.

So if they were kicked out of Germany, why not ask the Germans to carve out a country for them out of German land?

The UN decided to give them back thier original land.

If indeed the crime was commited against your people in the heart of Europe,

I am a Celt so yes a crime was committed..... I am not jewish

why commit a crime in the Middle East and carve out land because you were treated like **** in another continent?

What crime? reclaiming what is rightfully theirs in the first place? The Arabs are not native to the land after all but arrived following.......... wait for it......... a military conquest or following the return of the Jews.

[Joćo]

http://www.tibet.com/ the official government in exile website

http://www.hindu.com/2007/01/24/stories/2007012407431500.htm
That's interesting, so you're dictating the future of the Tibeten people for them? When in fact the Dalai Lama himself has ruled out independence, and at the most calls for some relative degree of autonamy, you're coming in here saying that Tibet should seperate?




a social policy or racial segregation involving political and economic and legal discrimination against people who are not Whites; the former official policy in South Africa
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I hate to burst your bubble but aside from the white requirement (not applicable in Israel either) iran meets all the requirements.
A- non shia cannot hold the reigns of power
B- non-shia are excluded from the mainstream economy
c- non-muslims have a codified second class status and do not enjoy religious freedom, only religious tolerance within very narrow guidelines.


As mentioned earlier, the worst they do in Iran is exlude non-Shias from running for the presidency and a few other positions. That's no appartheid. We know our own problems well in Iran and we've worked hard to correct the system, and have done so to a considerable degree, there's a long road ahead, but by no means is there anything resembling appartheid in Iran.

Whats more telling here is that you refused to address the points I raised giving specific examples of a state imposed appartheid in Israel. The leasing of land to Jews only, the preclusion of Arabs from society, preventing them from developing a professional class, reducing them to a narrow sector of the job sector, forcing them to take low paying jobs, and the list goes on. All of this is well documented in the book Blood and Religion:Umasking the Jewish state.

So those are real and clear examples of appartheid, and the fact that you wouldn't even address them says a lot.

[Zraver]

That's interesting, so you're dictating the future of the Tibeten people for them? When in fact the Dalai Lama himself has ruled out independence, and at the most calls for some relative degree of autonamy, you're coming in here saying that Tibet should seperate?

I posted the official Tibet government in exile website.

But here are his own words

As you know, Tibet has, for forty years, been under foreign occupation.

Tibetans have been deprived of their most basic human rights, including the right to life, movement, speech, worship, only to mention a few. More than one sixth of Tibet's population of six million died as a direct result of the Chinese invasion and occupation.

we have built schools and monasteries in exile and have created democratic institutions to serve our people and preserve the seeds of our civilisation. With this experience, we intend to implement full democracy in a future free Tibet.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1989/lama-lecture.html

As mentioned earlier, the worst they do in Iran is exlude non-Shias from running for the presidency and a few other positions.

It is a bit more than that, quite a bit more.

Non-muslims need permission to build a religious structure

non-shia are excluded from the ruling cleric and the Guards the 2 single biggest economic concerns in Iran accounting for most of the Iranian economy.

A non-Muslim man cannot marry a Muslim woman.

Non-muslims cannot display thier faith or recruit.

Non-muslims must still obey many Islamic laws

That's no appartheid.


what would you call it?

We know our own problems well in Iran and we've worked hard to correct the system, and have done so to a considerable degree, there's a long road ahead,

Until and unless all Iranian citizens have an equal chance of one day being equal separated by nothing more than effort and chance not race and religion it is not progressing very far.

but by no means is there anything resembling appartheid in Iran.

actually there is, see above.

Whats more telling here is that you refused to address the points I raised giving specific examples of a state imposed appartheid in Israel.

actually I did need some reminders?

The leasing of land to Jews only,

I asked for a source

the preclusion of Arabs from society, preventing them from developing a professional class, reducing them to a narrow sector of the job sector, forcing them to take low paying jobs, and the list goes on.

Highest home ownership rate, higher than average earnings for ME Arabs as a whole, a Supreme Court Justice, 10% of the Israeli parliment etc.

All of this is well documented in the book Blood and Religion:Umasking the Jewish state.

A rather inflammatory and biased source don't you think. Got any neutral sources?

So those are real and clear examples of appartheid, and the fact that you wouldn't even address them says a lot.

I did address them, you ignored my replys and that says a lot.

[Joćo]

I posted the official Tibet government in exile website.

Direct quote:

"Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has said he has told his people not to think in terms of history and to accept Tibet as a part of China."

From the source provided earlier.


It is a bit more than that, quite a bit more.

Non-muslims need permission to build a religious structure. non-shia are excluded from the ruling cleric and the Guards the 2 single biggest economic concerns in Iran accounting for most of the Iranian economy.A non-Muslim man cannot marry a Muslim woman. Non-muslims cannot display thier faith or recruit.Non-muslims must still obey many Islamic laws

Wow, what a Holocaust. People need permission to build religious places of worship. That's some appartheid there. The worst you can point at is non-Shias being exlcuded from some government positions.

It's funny you bring up the marriage issue in Iran between a non-Muslim man and a Muslim woman. In Israel, no Jew can marry a non-Jew, period. That goes far beyond what you have in Iran.


what would you call it?

A somewhat controlled democracy, obviously with its flaws, but nowhere near the savage appartheid regime in Israel.


Until and unless all Iranian citizens have an equal chance of one day being equal separated by nothing more than effort and chance not race and religion it is not progressing very far.

I grant there's some privilege given to Shias in narrow sectors of society, but what sort of racial segregation do you speak of? Please elaborate.


I asked for a source

It's from the book I mentioned, but I'm sure I can find you an online source if you like. Before I do so however, you will have to concede that if that's true, than it is without question a form of appartheid.


Highest home ownership rate, higher than average earnings for ME Arabs as a whole, a Supreme Court Justice, 10% of the Israeli parliment etc.

That's dodging the issue at hand, once again. So I'll post it for the third time and hope you give some sort of a response to the points raised, and not go off on a tangent about some Supreme Court Justice. The preclusion of Arabs from society, preventing them from developing a professional class, reducing them to a narrow sector of the job sector, forcing them to take low paying jobs, and the list goes on.


A rather inflammatory and biased source don't you think. Got any neutral sources?

Books are meant to present interpretations of facts that exist. I didn't present to you any of the interpretations from the book, but rather just the facts. Let's both agree on the facts first, and then you can justify the savagery, and I can call it appartheid.

[Zraver]

Direct quote:

"Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has said he has told his people not to think in terms of history and to accept Tibet as a part of China."

From the source provided earlier. [quote]

Go back to the original statement by a board member that Tibet had always been part of China. I think i have proven my claim that no it wa snot always part of China. I have also proven that the Dali Lama did call for a free Tibet. if he has since changed his stance, that does not change the fact that Tibet is occupied. it only means he is adjusting to the new reality.

[quote]Wow, what a Holocaust. People need permission to build religious places of worship. That's some appartheid there. The worst you can point at is non-Shias being exlcuded from some government positions.

some.......... how about the two most important branches and the two biggest industrial complexes. The exact same things you claim Israelis doing to the Arabs locking them out of society and forcing them into a lower economic status.

It's funny you bring up the marriage issue in Iran between a non-Muslim man and a Muslim woman. In Israel, no Jew can marry a non-Jew, period. That goes far beyond what you have in Iran.

The difference is a religious Jew cannot as a matter of religious law not state law. In Iran the two are the same. For jews who do not care about religion then can marry who ever they want.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3187942,00.html

A somewhat controlled democracy, obviously with its flaws, but nowhere near the savage appartheid regime in Israel./quote]

I have yet to see the differance

[quote]I grant there's some privilege given to Shias in narrow sectors of society, but what sort of racial segregation do you speak of? Please elaborate.

The exclusion of Jews who are not just a religion, but a race.

It's from the book I mentioned, but I'm sure I can find you an online source if you like. Before I do so however, you will have to concede that if that's true, than it is without question a form of appartheid.

No deal I am not agreeing to your strawman.

That's dodging the issue at hand, once again. So I'll post it for the third time and hope you give some sort of a response to the points raised, and not go off on a tangent about some Supreme Court Justice.


Just a note- you don't get much more included than when you get a Supreme Court Justice

The preclusion of Arabs from society

They have members in the Knesset


The Arab University in Israel recently opened and offers degrees recognized in Israel and the US. All 3 initial degree options are high tech and in cutting edge fields Environmental Science, Computer Science, and Communications

preventing them from developing a professional class, reducing them to a narrow sector of the job sector, forcing them to take low paying jobs, and the list goes on.

their standard of living is higher than most other ME Arabs. have you bothered to wonder about others factors that might be in play?

BTW Israeli Arab per capita income in 2006 was $19,028 USD (29% less than the national average- see below for causation) this is more than twice Iran's and is higher than the Saudis. its even greater compared to neighboring Arabs 3x higher than Lebanon and Jordan/ 4x higher than Egypt and Syria.

Arab women don't work so there is only 1 wage earner.

Arabs have bigger families so the money gets spread thinner.

Arab leaders have not raised local taxes to develop infrastructure or fund education, but hey the arabs pay less taxes.

Arabs other than Druze are not subject to the draft due to racial issues of not wanting to compel Arabs to fight Arabs, so most do not have access to the benefits given to veterans- but they could volunteer.

Israel is spending about 330 million USD a year to improve the economic lives of Arabs

Books are meant to present interpretations of facts that exist.

Not always, information can easily be spun into false facts.

I didn't present to you any of the interpretations from the book, but rather just the facts. Let's both agree on the facts first, and then you can justify the savagery, and I can call it appartheid.

biased facts may not be facts at all.

[Kermanshah1]

how so? more than half are immigrants from the same era as the Jewish immigration and in about the same numbers. This if 600,000 imigratns can form with a pre-exisitng nucleus and form a nation- the so can the 600,000 jews.

It might have not been an indipendent nation, but the peace of land was called Palestine, it belonged to Arabs, and those Arabs were the Palestinians.


No it wasn't, Jews living in Arab lands ha dno connection to European Jews until forced out.

It wasn't exactly the fault of the Jews that were actually kicked out but the fault of "the Jews" for making Israel.

If you call codified second class status good treatment I guess your right.

Second class treatment is always better than getting gassed.

Egypt- Jews huh some background please.

Traitors in the gouvernment wich lost them the 6 day war.

Check out the German green-card system. immigrants are excluded form gaining citizenship. Thus they cannot vote or even have a political voice, are underpaid/over worked and forced into slums.

And how do you explain all those foreigners with German or Dutch nationality?

America has its problems but Europe is worse.

What about the KKK

[Zraver]

It might have not been an indipendent nation, but the peace of land was called Palestine, it belonged to Arabs, and those Arabs were the Palestinians.

it was named Palestine by the Romans after the deported the Jews. its real name is Judea or Caanan.

It wasn't exactly the fault of the Jews that were actually kicked out but the fault of "the Jews" for making Israel.

Then by that logic Israel is justify in kicking Arabs out for the actions of other Arabs to make war on them. I guess that settles the issue.

Second class treatment is always better than getting gassed.

So why are you complaining about the treatment of Israeli Arabs they may be seocnd class but are not getting gassed and have a higher standard of living than most Arabs.

Traitors in the gouvernment wich lost them the 6 day war.

Actually I think it was bad intel form the Soviets, bad leadership by Nasser, and poor battlefield performance

And how do you explain all those foreigners with German or Dutch nationality?

source?

heres just one of mine- http://www.workpermit.com/germany/employer1.htm

Immigrants never gain citizenship.

What about the KKK

There are almost as many anti-Semites on this board alone as there are actual KKK members in any singe state of the US a country of 300 million.

As of 2005, there were an estimated 3,000 Klan members, divided between estimates of 100[76] and 158 chapters of a variety of splinter organizations, about two-thirds of which were in former Confederate states. The other third are primarily in the Midwest.[77][78][79]

thats 1 KKK member for every 100,000 citizens or 60 per state.

[indianguy]

it was named Palestine by the Romans after the deported the Jews. its real name is Judea or Caanan.

In the 5th century BCE, the Greek historian and geographer Herodotus wrote in Greek of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinêi,"from which Latin: Palaestina and Palestine are derived.

The Assyrian emperor Sargon II called the region the Palashtu in his Annals. By the time of Assyrian rule in 722 BCE

Egyptian texts of the temple at Medinet Habu, record a people called the P-r-s-t (conventionally Peleset), one of the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III's reign.

The Hebrew name Peleshet (פלשת Pəléshseth), usually translated as Philistia in English, is used in the Bible to denote their southern coastal region.

Hebrews use to call it Peleshet . Why ?

Greek came first or Romans ?

[Zraver]

Well I stand corrected, but the original Philistines were not Arabs, but Greek (Mycanean) peoples.

[Vladimir80]

Well I stand corrected, but the original Philistines were not Arabs, but Greek (Mycanean) peoples.

The bible says they were begot from "Mizraim" which is Hebrew for Egyptian.

[Zraver]

The bible says they were begot from "Mizraim" which is Hebrew for Egyptian.


But science says the were attic, with clear links to Mycene culture.

Ohh and BTW1, the Bible says they were attic as well.

"saith the LORD: Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and Aram from Kir?" (Amos 9:7).
"For the LORD will spoil the Philistines, the remnant of the country of Caphtor, (Jeremiah 47:4)

Ohh BTW2, Egyptians are not Arab biologically.

[Vladimir80]

Caphtor means Crete... not Attic. Attic is from Attica... aka Athens region.

I don't see how they can be both Egyptian and Cretian. I'm not saying they aren't descended from Mycenaeans but there is somewhat of a contradiction in the biblical record.

[Zraver]

Caphtor means Crete... not Attic. Attic is from Attica... aka Athens region.

I don't see how they can be both Egyptian and Cretian. I'm not saying they aren't descended from Mycenaeans but there is somewhat of a contradiction in the biblical record.

it depends, there is a theory that they were also the or part of the Hyskos invaders.

[indianguy]

Well I stand corrected, but the original Philistines were not Arabs, but Greek (Mycanean) peoples.

Urs question was not this ..

U were saying that Romans named this land Palestine .

Originally Posted by Zraver
it was named Palestine by the Romans after the deported the Jews. its real name is Judea or Caanan.

In the 5th century BCE, the Greek historian and geographer Herodotus wrote in Greek of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinêi,"from which Latin: Palaestina and Palestine are derived.

The Assyrian emperor Sargon II called the region the Palashtu in his Annals. By the time of Assyrian rule in 722 BCE

Egyptian texts of the temple at Medinet Habu, record a people called the P-r-s-t (conventionally Peleset), one of the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III's reign.

The Hebrew name Peleshet (פלשת Pəléshseth), usually translated as Philistia in English, is used in the Bible to denote their southern coastal region.

Hebrews use to call it Peleshet . Why ?

Greek came first or Romans ?

[Chiloe]

The video 'Not so cool facts about Israel' is always being deleted on YouTube for some 'copyright violation'. Videos pop up now and again and there are usually 3 'Not so cool facts about Israel' (same vid) on YouTube at the same time.

Brilliant video I must say. But I have tried many times to find out who made it originally or find it on another website and that has come to no avail.

...I have my own YouTube Channel and videos so I might do a very similar video in time. I'll make a thread collecting 'not so cool' facts about Israel when the time comes :)

[Kermanshah1]

it was named Palestine by the Romans after the deported the Jews. its real name is Judea or Caanan.

Yes, well than that's very bad for them but it doesn't give them the right to come to that land after 2000 years and invade the land because some ancestors of them used to live there.

Then by that logic Israel is justify in kicking Arabs out for the actions of other Arabs to make war on them. I guess that settles the issue.

This is a complete different question, Israel has no right to exist. They had no right to expell the Arabs in the first place and the Arabs have all right to do something against it, however if they do things back to the civilian population that is just a war crime.

So why are you complaining about the treatment of Israeli Arabs they may be seocnd class but are not getting gassed and have a higher standard of living than most Arabs.

Considering villages get ethnicly cleasned and Israel still targets Arab civilians even inside Israel I wouldn't say that.

Actually I think it was bad intel form the Soviets, bad leadership by Nasser, and poor battlefield performance

I don't really think the Soviet equipment was bad at all, the fact the Israeli's entered captured tanks into service and that Israeli soldiers rather used AK-47s captured from Arab soldiers than their own guns proves it wasn't the weapons that were bad but the people using them...And yes the Egyptian soldiers did badly, that is a main reason fro losing, but also the betrail by Jews in power contributed to Egypts defeat.

source?

heres just one of mine- http://www.workpermit.com/germany/employer1.htm

Immigrants never gain citizenship.

Well the Germans have always already been racists... After all, Hitler was democraticly elected in Germany...

But in the rest of Europe things are different.

There are almost as many anti-Semites on this board alone as there are actual KKK members in any singe state of the US a country of 300 million.

As of 2005, there were an estimated 3,000 Klan members, divided between estimates of 100[76] and 158 chapters of a variety of splinter organizations, about two-thirds of which were in former Confederate states. The other third are primarily in the Midwest.[77][78][79]

thats 1 KKK member for every 100,000 citizens or 60 per state.

Well there are also a lot of racists in America wich are not members of the KKK, and these things would also go with Muslims and terrorists (although not in Iraq).

[Zraver]

Yes, well than that's very bad for them but it doesn't give them the right to come to that land after 2000 years and invade the land because some ancestors of them used to live there.

How long then? Many fundamentalist Muslims say they still have a claim on Spain and Sicily. The only obvious difference is the Jews were actually able to get thier land back.

This is a complete different question, Israel has no right to exist.

They have as much right to exist as any nation.

They had no right to expell the Arabs in the first place

Most refugees were not caused by expulsion.

and the Arabs have all right to do something against it,

Not according to the UN charter

however if they do things back to the civilian population that is just a war crime.

Since you cannot willingly commit a crime, how exactly are you going to eject the Jews?

Considering villages get ethnicly cleasned and Israel still targets Arab civilians even inside Israel I wouldn't say that.

The Arabs did the same thing to the Jews.

I don't really think the Soviet equipment was bad at all, the fact the Israeli's entered captured tanks into service

Israel was still using WW2 era equipment in some cases so yes Soviet tanks were better than that stuff, but not as good as American/British tanks.

Well the Germans have always already been racists... After all, Hitler was democraticly elected in Germany...

But in the rest of Europe things are different.

Nehterlands- same problem residency not citizenship.
http://www.workpermit.com/netherlands/employer_residence_permits.htm

Europe as a whole is the same becuase of EEA/EU rules.

Well there are also a lot of racists in America wich are not members of the KKK, and these things would also go with Muslims and terrorists (although not in Iraq).

you specified the KKK, BTW everyone is racist to some degree.

[Kermanshah1]

How long then? Many fundamentalist Muslims say they still have a claim on Spain and Sicily. The only obvious difference is the Jews were actually able to get thier land back.

They'll be kicked out, don't worry.

They have as much right to exist as any nation.

Since when has an invading army got the right to exist.

Most refugees were not caused by expulsion.

Maybe, but their country was taken away from them non the less.

Not according to the UN charter

UN is a US puppet.

Since you cannot willingly commit a crime, how exactly are you going to eject the Jews?

Cause there are no Israeli civilians.

The Arabs did the same thing to the Jews.

That's not the same thing.

Israel was still using WW2 era equipment in some cases so yes Soviet tanks were better than that stuff, but not as good as American/British tanks.

Wouldn't say that, but that's besides the point.

Nehterlands- same problem residency not citizenship.
http://www.workpermit.com/netherlands/employer_residence_permits.htm

Europe as a whole is the same becuase of EEA/EU rules.

But if you live there long enough you can apply for citizenship.

you specified the KKK, BTW everyone is racist to some degree.

But the Americans...

[Zraver]

They'll be kicked out, don't worry.

I doubt it, the only way Arabs have gotten land back is with peace not war.



Since when has an invading army got the right to exist.

They are not an invading army, they fought off invading armies.



Maybe, but their country was taken away from them non the less.

Since the majority did not arrive until the Jews did, and the majority of those who where there before Jews arrived were tenants not land owners what makes thier claim superior?

UN is a US puppet.

Yup thats why we got so many resolutons to go invade Iraq.

Cause there are no Israeli civilians.

So its ok to kill Jewish babies, then don't ***** when the israelies fight fire with fire.



That's not the same thing.

Yes it is, no double standards please.


ut if you live there long enough you can apply for citizenship.

No you can't except in very special cases, the best you get is permament residency which is not the same thing.



But the Americans...

Are on a whole a lot less racist than most other places because we live in a pluralistic society. if you want out and out racism look at Russia with its neo-fascist mobs ganging up on and beating Central Asians, of the Chinese treatment of non-Han.

[Kermanshah1]

I doubt it, the only way Arabs have gotten land back is with peace not war.

Well, I have no doubts at all about this.

They are not an invading army, they fought off invading armies.

Occupying land is an act of war.

Since the majority did not arrive until the Jews did, and the majority of those who where there before Jews arrived were tenants not land owners what makes thier claim superior?

The ones wich arrived later were welcome, the Jews were not.

Yup thats why we got so many resolutons to go invade Iraq.

Oh yeah, and they stopped you...

So its ok to kill Jewish babies, then don't ***** when the israelies fight fire with fire.

Occupying land is an act of war.

Yes it is, no double standards please.

it was theirs, the Jews came there trying to take it over. It's no wonder they were treated badly.

But if you are talking about Jews in other Arab countries, yes it's not good. But why do the Palestinians have to suffer because of this.

No you can't except in very special cases, the best you get is permament residency which is not the same thing.

How do you than explain all those foreigners here with Dutch nationality?

Are on a whole a lot less racist than most other places because we live in a pluralistic society. if you want out and out racism look at Russia with its neo-fascist mobs ganging up on and beating Central Asians, of the Chinese treatment of non-Han.

I don't think that's true...

[Zraver]

Well, I have no doubts at all about this.

Egypt got the Sinai back via a peace treaty, the Palestinians got the territory they have via peace treaty etc.

Occupying land is an act of war.

I agree, unless the occupied land was taken in a defensive war, then the aggressor forfiets his claim. The Arabs started the wars and lost.

The ones wich arrived later were welcome, the Jews were not.

Actually the Jews were invited in by the Ottomans.

Oh yeah, and they stopped you...

They could not stop us, but they didn't agree with us as a puppet would.

Occupying land is an act of war.

Then perhaps the Arabs should make peace not war.

it was theirs, the Jews came there trying to take it over. It's no wonder they were treated badly.

It wasn't theres, the Jews owned the land they occupied in 1947 legally bought from the legal owners. After 47 they have gained land defensively.

But if you are talking about Jews in other Arab countries, yes it's not good. But why do the Palestinians have to suffer because of this.

Why did those Jews have to suffer because of Israel?

How do you than explain all those foreigners here with Dutch nationality?[/qote]

They are the exception that proves the rules. The deck is stacked unless your well off or posses a critical skill.

[quote]I don't think that's true...

research it.

[Kermanshah1]

Egypt got the Sinai back via a peace treaty, the Palestinians got the territory they have via peace treaty etc.

Yeah, Egypt...

I agree, unless the occupied land was taken in a defensive war, then the aggressor forfiets his claim. The Arabs started the wars and lost.

Israel started the 6 day war

Actually the Jews were invited in by the Ottomans.

The Ottomans were occupying the land aswell, they had no right to give it away. And I am talking about the Jews that came and made Israel, they came after and around the second ww.

They could not stop us, but they didn't agree with us as a puppet would.

It can't be to obvious...

Then perhaps the Arabs should make peace not war.

Israel isn't prepared to give anything back, the fact they refused the Arab peace proposal says enough.

It wasn't theres, the Jews owned the land they occupied in 1947 legally bought from the legal owners. After 47 they have gained land defensively.

British giving othe people's land away...

Why did those Jews have to suffer because of Israel?

as if the jews are really suffering.

They are the exception that proves the rules. The deck is stacked unless your well off or posses a critical skill.

I live hear...There are a lot of foreigners with dutch nationality

[Zraver]

Israel started the 6 day war

No,

vs Egypt

Radio Cario broadcast a declaration of war, Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran, the Un was kicked out so the Egyptian Army could move into attack positions, at least 1 Egyptian attack was aborted at the last minute. Egyot was obviously at war with Israel.

Vs Jordan

Jordanian Palestinians planted a mine that killed 3 IDF soldiers leading to the Suma reprisal when the US Ambassador screwed up and never deleivered the Kings apology. Just beofre active shooting broke out Jordan turned control of the Jordan legion over to Egypt and invited in an Iraqi force. Once the war started Jordan fired first.

vs Syria

In months prior to the war Syria attacked israel more than 300 times (artillery, air, infiltration and considered itself to be in a state of war with Israel. Just a few months before the war Syria was finally convinced to stop trying to wipe out Palestine by cutting off the Jordan river which would have hurt the Palestinians and Jordanians more than the Israelis

The Ottomans were occupying the land aswell, they had no right to give it away. And I am talking about the Jews that came and made Israel, they came after and around the second ww.

They had been the legal government for centuries and were the acknowledged Caliphate and its appoints of religious and governmental leaders had been accpeted as legitimate for centuries.



It can't be to obvious...

So Russia and China are secretly in league with the US....

Israel isn't prepared to give anything back, the fact they refused the Arab peace proposal says enough.

The Arab demands would have wiped out Israel. Israel agreed to 99% of Arafat's demands but he rejected 100% of them over that 1%.

British giving othe people's land away...

The Brits didn't give it away. Jews bought there land from Arab landowners. prior to 1947 no Arab lost thier home. Remember the 1947 partition plan was based on who lived where and owned what. Israel did not invade 4 neighboring Arab states to get more land but was invaded by 7 Arab nations.

as if the Jews are really suffering.

The Jews kicked out of Muslim lands will never ever again visit the graves of thier ancestors, were totally bankrupted, many were killed etc and they had nothing to do with Israel.

I live hear...There are a lot of foreigners with dutch nationality

And many many more do not and cannot get it.

[mig21bis]

"Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran"


+++++ Actually they didnt....they checked few ships which were going to Eilat etc.....thats all....

Myth that has lived its own life.....

[500]

"Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran"


+++++ Actually they didnt....they checked few ships which were going to Eilat etc.....thats all....

Myth that has lived its own life.....
Yes sure :wub2:

10. The decision of the Government of the United Arab Republic to restrict shipping in the Strait of Tiran, of which I learned while en route to Cairo, has created a new situation.

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/44c971ced20b476705256559005be4a5!OpenDocument

[mig21bis]

Yes sure :wub2:

10. The decision of the Government of the United Arab Republic to restrict shipping in the Strait of Tiran, of which I learned while en route to Cairo, has created a new situation.

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/44c971ced20b476705256559005be4a5!OpenDocument


++++ They didnt block shipments to Eilat....myth

[500]

++++ They didnt block shipments to Eilat....myth
Of course ur word is more creditable than UN document :biggrin1:

[Alienoz]

Of course ur word is more creditable than UN document :biggrin1:

500 are you a Turk? You wrote "ya komşu olursun ya hedef". I thought you were Israeli.

[babehshalom]

Of course ur word is more creditable than UN document :biggrin1:

The straits were closed in 56, and again in 67 before the six day war broke out

this is very well documented..