Yankeee great(!) thinkers/minds?

[daddy]

Does any one see or can show me any one or more yankee born and bred in this list HEAVILY BIASED TOWARDS WESTERNERS (culturally etc with almost no mention or inclusion of anybody else from elsewhere).......

for a START, let's find the list of born and bred yanks in this list....let's slit the yankee apologists to pieces, shred their fragile fake defense apart with this 'irrefutable proof' (for a start)....more to come...


http://afrodita.rcub.bg.ac.yu/~flora/100.html


100 Greatest



In the magazine Mathematics Teacher (I.7. Vol.55, 1962), W.C. Eells published list of 100 greatest mathematicians of all time. Here is the complete list:

Newton
Leibnitz
Lagrange
Euler
Laplace
Euklid
Gauss
Arhimed
Descartes
Cardano
Legendre
Pitagora
Monge
D'Alembert
Cauchy
Fourrier
Fermat
Napier
Pascal
Apolonije
Fibonacci
Viete
Ptolemej
Huygens
Regiomontanus
Diofant
Mac Laurin
Bernulli, Jacob
Pappus
Cavalieri
Jacobi
Bernulli, Johan
Wallis
Hamilton
Tartaglia
Heron
Poncelet
Riemann
Poisson
Abel
Chasles
Cremona
Roberval
Boskovic
Galilei
Clairaut
Lambert
Barrow
Strum
Stevin
De Morgan
Taylor
Kepler
Bernulli, Daniel
Desargues
Briggs
Sylvester
Camot
Maupertius
Babbage
Hermite
Tales
Smith, H.J.S.
Kovaljevska
Pacioli
Hipokrat
Gerbert
Clebsch
Plucher
Grassmann
Dirichlet
Cayley
Al-Hovrismi
Cotes
De Moivre
Boole
Weierstrass
Lie
Lobacevski
Ahmes
Borda
Beltrami
Frisi
Galois
Torricelli
Montucla
Hesse
Jordanus
Platon
Poincare
Steiner
Halley
Ampere
L'Hospital
Thomson (Lord Kelvin)
Boethius
Tschirnhausen
Bhaskara
Eratosten
Zenon

[Ragnarok]

What proof? All you have is a list of some of the greatest mathematicians ever. Sure maybe the list is not complete, or you might be able to argue someone should be included instead of another, but as a physics student(BS completed, soon to be graduate) I know most of these names and what they have done, and I know you would be very hard pressed to find anyone who is done more for mathematics.

[Vladimir80]

No Americans that I can see...

[Ragnarok]

Yeah, Vladimir points out that your title is misleading.(Even if you correct yourself in the text)

[payam]

Daddy are you ok?:D??!!!

No Americans that I can see...

Indeed:roflmao3:

[dogukan]

Mathematic advanced a lot during Islamic empire ,Baburs in India
Damn I hate them

[Kiaar]

You guys realize this is list of the best mathematicians, many of which were around before the US existed and almost all before the US was a major power in the world.

[daddy]

had I titled the thread "No yankee great thinkers/minds?" i'd be called racist, sexist, nazist, islamist, fascist, communist etc etc etc......hence I ASKED is there any yankee great thinker/mind?
for example, i listed a WESTERN source that is very biased to westerners, not only to western individuals, but to western cultural, scientific etc practices, heck even then a yank couldn't find himself a spot in that list....is that considered a shame for yanks?

in another thread we were arguing with fanatic yanks about lack of yankee intelligence....i think this is indicative of my assertion that yankees have never produced a genius, a great intellect of note, in the purest of pure realms of thoughts etc

any yanks here in this list?

[daddy]

btw this list is an EXAMPLE of many such lists, where yanks are noticable for their ABSENCE

lol

[daddy]

for further clarification folks, look at the incredibily ludicrous and outrageous assertion by mahati the negroid slaves' descendents, in the second quote of my signature

[daddy]

What proof? All you have is a list of some of the greatest mathematicians ever. Sure maybe the list is not complete, or you might be able to argue someone should be included instead of another, but as a physics student(BS completed, soon to be graduate) I know most of these names and what they have done, and I know you would be very hard pressed to find anyone who is done more for mathematics.

mate you misunderstood me......i meant to say, this is proof that yanks lack(ed) true geniuses, never ever produced any themselves...that's all, there was silly arguments by fanatic yanks about this.....even my signature contians an inkling to that display of silliness.....by fanatic yanks....

i don't doubt what you say. i know that myself, heck that's WHY i posted this myself mate!

[Behrooz Boonabi]

I am using Laplace transformations right now.

[daddy]

well looks like that's not yankee mate!

good on ya!

[daddy]

oh btw r u an engineering student? which one?

[Ragnarok]

If you are really interested in finding great American minds throughout history look up a list of Nobel Prize winners. If on the other hand you just want to bash on America then don't worry about it.

In actuality, nations do not exist other then in the minds of men, and to think any geographic area is devoid of natural intelligence is to ignore the vast amount of information that says the opposite.

[daddy]

well mate i STRONGLY doubt that Nobel prize winners is any indication of ACTUAL merit, did you know that getting nominated for nobel prizes also involves a lot of politics? perhaps not.....not surprisingly soviet union hardly won any nobel prizes, but usa, uk dominated it.....not because of better science/tech, thinkers or anything like that, because of politics.....guess whose side sweden/norway(for peace!) was on - usa/uk/nato OR ussr/warsaw pact?

for example newton didn't get any nobels (simply there wasn't any during his time) but many ordinary "researchers" from usa got that in collaboration with each other, for ordinary work, what does that mean? That newton is to be considered far lower in intelligence or those nobel laureates higher than newton in any way.....lol

i believe henry kissinger also won nobel, that too in peace....the rest you decide.

[Ragnarok]

Sure there is a lot of politics in the Nobel Prize process as there are people involved in deciding it, but to discount the work those people made merely because there is politics involved is hardly honest. Some of the Nobel Laureates in physics are well within the same league of Newton, and some of those contribution are on the same magnitude as Newton's.

Does the Nobel Prize list give a complete account of the great minds during its existence? Obviously not, as you attested with Russia vs. NATO and the like, but it does give a partial list of people who did make some honest breakthroughs especially in science. Discount it all you want, but until you know what those people did(especially in physics) then you have absolutely no room to speak.

Believe what you wish about the lack of great minds in the US, but remember belief does not change reality.

[Oriellien]

Another thing, even if you use the "yanks didnt create this", the yanks made some of the important developments with them. For example the lightbulb, Edison didnt invent the concept, but what he did do was invent the fillament in it, which allowed to be used for long durations and conviently. Without that they wouldnt have been adapted to households or everyday life.

[daddy]

Sure there is a lot of politics in the Nobel Prize process as there are people involved in deciding it, but to discount the work those people made merely because there is politics involved is hardly honest. Some of the Nobel Laureates in physics are well within the same league of Newton, and some of those contribution are on the same magnitude as Newton's.

well mate, einstein won one nobel for physics (not for relativity etc but photoelectric effect or brownian motion sth like that i dun remember) but these days every year some one or the other is winning them....by your logic they're as good as einstein or comparable, since they (at least some of them, many yanks can only win when 3 or 4 of them combined together do something - even then shady business) won as many as einstein while many others didn't.....while all i'm saying is these 'rag tag" thinkers are no quality traders in this business of 'intellectuals'.....they'll soon be forgotten (heck how many know them already but taht's not important)

you make me laugh saying they're in teh same league as newton.....mate you should join hollywood make more films comedies fiction etc...that's the only palce where everything american has a 100% winning record, be it in music, thinking, philosophy, democracy, human rights, sports, great mathematicians, politicians, standard of living, lack of crimes etc etc etc



Does the Nobel Prize list give a complete account of the great minds during its existence? Obviously not, as you attested with Russia vs. NATO and the like, but it does give a partial list of people who did make some honest breakthroughs especially in science. Discount it all you want, but until you know what those people did(especially in physics) then you have absolutely no room to speak.

some ppl say partial list is WORSE than no list, partial truth can be even more biased than utter falsehoods.....i dont necessarily agree or disagree, but you can see some vestige of truth in that statement....


Believe what you wish about the lack of great minds in the US, but remember belief does not change reality.

i understand your point of view, of not producing any thinker of note, any intellectual etc.....so you maybe sore, may be feel left out, may be a little jealous, or feel sorry.....i don't know exactly your emotions but it will be sth like the ones mentioned...so you must say this.....but i presented some proof of a statement.

in fact i titled this thread in a neutral fashion, wthout oblique references to lack of yankee intelligence, however all forumers jumped on me for not teling the truth - that htere was NO yanks on that list i provided

[daddy]

Another thing, even if you use the "yanks didnt create this", the yanks made some of the important developments with them. For example the lightbulb, Edison didnt invent the concept, but what he did do was invent the fillament in it, which allowed to be used for long durations and conviently. Without that they wouldnt have been adapted to households or everyday life.

well mate i understand your plight and (try to) empathize with you, i know faced with the same dire lack of true intelligence, i'd have come up with similar excuses, at least that's about the best you have, so why not parade it around and be 'proud' of it.....

however facts are facts and not to be dismissed for serious discussion and evaluation of historical events.....but in fantasy lala land, well yanks can use excuses made by you and raganarok.....why not?

[Kiaar]

well mate i understand your plight and (try to) empathize with you, i know faced with the same dire lack of true intelligence, i'd have come up with similar excuses, at least that's about the best you have, so why not parade it around and be 'proud' of it.....

however facts are facts and not to be dismissed for serious discussion and evaluation of historical events.....but in fantasy lala land, well yanks can use excuses made by you and raganarok.....why not?

What country are you from? I'm curious.

[Ragnarok]

I honestly cannot make a better argument than the one you make against yourself.

First you say:

some ppl say partial list is WORSE than no list, partial truth can be even more biased than utter falsehoods.....i dont necessarily agree or disagree, but you can see some vestige of truth in that statement....

Then you say:

in fact i titled this thread in a neutral fashion, wthout oblique references to lack of yankee intelligence, however all forumers jumped on me for not teling the truth - that htere was NO yanks on that list i provided

Allow me to connect the dots for you, as you said a partial list can be more dishonest than a complete one, and I agree if that list is represented as a complete list. Then you post a list of great mathematical minds as proof that there is no American's on your "complete list" of great thinkers; where such a list was created in 1962 for a discipline that hasn't advanced much past the mid 1800's(when the US was an infant), so it cannot truly represent a "complete list of great thinkers" and by your first point posting it as such(as proof) is inherently dishonest.

I will tell you the truth, in every part of this world there are great thinkers, but what determines if they do anything great with their natural ability is determined solely from the opportunity of environment. Issac Newton(since you like him so much) would have contributed naught to science and mathematics if he was born in say a country like Chad instead of England. It isn't because "everyone in Chad is stupid" or some other moronic thought, but rather because he would have been born into a life of hard work and little education(assuming he lived long enough). As great as Newton's mind was much of his work stemmed from his predecessors, and thankfully he was humble enough to realize this. The work of some of the modern physicists really is in the same league of newton(if not beyond him), but you cannot truly appreciate this unless you know contemporary physics. This is something I cannot give you "proof" of since such knowledge fits snugly within many textbooks.

In closing, about my intentions(you ask is it jealousy) I would like to quote one of the greatest thinkers.

Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race.
-Albert Einstein

To take pride in the actions of others is beyond stupidity it is dishonesty. A little ruse played by the infantile mind so that the ego may be satisfied. Be a good human before you are a good American, Persian, French... ect because when the chips finally fall that is all that matters.

[Oriellien]

well mate i understand your plight and (try to) empathize with you, i know faced with the same dire lack of true intelligence, i'd have come up with similar excuses, at least that's about the best you have, so why not parade it around and be 'proud' of it.....

however facts are facts and not to be dismissed for serious discussion and evaluation of historical events.....but in fantasy lala land, well yanks can use excuses made by you and raganarok.....why not?

Calling someone unintelligcent, what an oringinal excuse to avoid discussion.

[daddy]

I honestly cannot make a better argument than the one you make against yourself.

First you say:

some ppl say partial list is WORSE than no list, partial truth can be even more biased than utter falsehoods.....i dont necessarily agree or disagree, but you can see some vestige of truth in that statement....

Then you say:

in fact i titled this thread in a neutral fashion, wthout oblique references to lack of yankee intelligence, however all forumers jumped on me for not teling the truth - that htere was NO yanks on that list i provided


hmmm...okay


Allow me to connect the dots for you, as you said a partial list can be more dishonest than a complete one, and I agree if that list is represented as a complete list. Then you post a list of great mathematical minds as proof that there is no American's on your "complete list" of great thinkers; where such a list was created in 1962 for a discipline that hasn't advanced much past the mid 1800's(when the US was an infant), so it cannot truly represent a "complete list of great thinkers" and by your first point posting it as such(as proof) is inherently dishonest.

mate where did you get this "complete list" that i SUPPOSEDLY (as claimed by you) posted from? i remember having said that was just a start, a beginning of many more possible lists that CAN BE found or penned down, but you came up with a novelty all by yourself, maybe that's one thing yanks discovered all by themselves (although its worth is questionable)....



I will tell you the truth, in every part of this world there are great thinkers,
lol what's the source? this is such an oft-repeated maxim, with little to no value. what proof do you have? for all that i know, yanks don't fit within this description, FOR EXAMPLE.




but what determines if they do anything great with their natural ability is determined solely from the opportunity of environment. Issac Newton(since you like him so much) would have contributed naught to science and mathematics if he was born in say a country like Chad instead of England. It isn't because "everyone in Chad is stupid" or some other moronic thought, but rather because he would have been born into a life of hard work and little education(assuming he lived long enough).

aside from the various contradictions in your post, it's a factually misleading statement. newton left cambridge for the plague and in those 1-2 yers he was the most inventive most innovative, at his productive best.....what opportunities were provided to him lol that made him the leading man of western (not necessarily others, but maybe) scientific thought for the better part of last 3-4 centuries at least......lol; if you call the plague just that, maybe yanks should be investing in "harvesting" plague amidst their populations for finding a few "isaac newtons" here and there....


As great as Newton's mind was much of his work stemmed from his predecessors, and thankfully he was humble enough to realize this.

no dear friend, that's nonsense! show me the source....he had originality inventiveness etc but we're getting sidetracked he'sj ust ONE of many great scientists, philosophers etc ever, not the only one but one of many ever...however no yanks are lucky or good enough to be on such lists...



The work of some of the modern physicists really is in the same league of newton(if not beyond him), but you cannot truly appreciate this unless you know contemporary physics. This is something I cannot give you "proof" of since such knowledge fits snugly within many textbooks.


:laugh4:go join some hollywood comical/comedy show....sitcoms they call them, no? name some such "modern physicsts" plz with sources on why they're in the same league as newton (again, you're getting sidetracked, he was one of the greatest ever, but not the only one).......what takes five/six tomes to explain in detail can be nicely summarized in five/six lines in brief, however much of the substance will be lacking, that i'll make up for. just give me the summary. who are those "modern physicsts" in teh same league as newton?:laugh4:


In closing, about my intentions(you ask is it jealousy) I would like to quote one of the greatest thinkers.

Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race.
-Albert Einstein

To take pride in the actions of others is beyond stupidity it is dishonesty. A little ruse played by the infantile mind so that the ego may be satisfied. Be a good human before you are a good American, Persian, French... ect because when the chips finally fall that is all that matters.

blah blah blah this comes out when yanks are shown to be truly lacking in true genius, and shown to be incompetent.. however when it comes to bombing, terrorizing, gassing, nuking, killing maiming, looting pillaging innocents millions upon millions of them there's no such great thoughts crossing the yankee "mind"(if they exist)

[Kiaar]

You sure hate America don't you Daddy? In every post you made, there's something anti-US in there.

Did we bomb you or something?

Seriously...

[Oriellien]

You sure hate America don't you Daddy? In every post you made, there's something anti-US in there.

Did we bomb you or something?

Seriously...

I came across an Australian in a political iirc channel named daddy, they sound very framiliar, I wonder if there the same person :)

[daddy]

What country are you from? I'm curious.

your compatriot ragnarok has this to say


closing, about my intentions(you ask is it jealousy) I would like to quote one of the greatest thinkers.

Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race.
-Albert Einstein

To take pride in the actions of others is beyond stupidity it is dishonesty. A little ruse played by the infantile mind so that the ego may be satisfied. Be a good human before you are a good American, Persian, French... ect because when the chips finally fall that is all that matters

[Kiaar]

your compatriot ragnarok has this to say

Well your apparent utter hatred for the US and everything about it has to come from somewhere, so I'm curious.

And actually Einstein said that, he just quoted him.

[daddy]

Calling someone unintelligcent, what an oringinal excuse to avoid discussion.

it should be the plural of "someone" what is that? "someoneS"?
anyway, if some group is truly unintelligent (say teh yanks, for example) what shall i call them?

[daddy]

You sure hate America don't you Daddy? In every post you made, there's something anti-US in there.

Did we bomb you or something?

Seriously...

such personally quasi-insulting/offensive questions/remarks are best left unentertained friend.....

however one (i.e. any sane mind) can't help but notice the tremendous amount of ill that the yanks have caused in this world, more so than any other entity in this era, and perhaps "bettered" by the likes of mongols, british, nazis and a handful of others (i'm doubtful of the nazis being worse than yanks though, you list the yankee atrocities and it's clear the yanks are at the forefront of "destruction" of civilian ilves properties etc)

yanks are teh biggest destabilizing and terrorist force in this world....

[daddy]

Well your apparent utter hatred for the US and everything about it has to come from somewhere, so I'm curious.

And actually Einstein said that, he just quoted him.

he quoted einstein to express himself....
as for myself, don't bother....don't make this personal...here i didn't attack any individual personally nor should you. that's all, stick to the topic.

[Kiaar]

such personally quasi-insulting/offensive questions/remarks are best left unentertained friend.....

however one (i.e. any sane mind) can't help but notice the tremendous amount of ill that the yanks have caused in this world, more so than any other entity in this era, and perhaps "bettered" by the likes of mongols, british, nazis and a handful of others (i'm doubtful of the nazis being worse than yanks though, you list the yankee atrocities and it's clear the yanks are at the forefront of "destruction" of civilian ilves properties etc)

yanks are teh biggest destabilizing and terrorist force in this world....

I'm sorry to say but my half joke half insult approached nowhere near the levels you insult my country and it's people constantly. But that's not relevant right now.

America is the current superpower, and historically, those tend to be the ones that cause the most trouble. Eventually it will be someone else's turn, and I'd bet you a good sum of cash that during that time everyone is going to hate that nation.

Even in it's entire 225 years or so of existence, the US has not caused a world war that caused the deaths of well over 60 million people like Nazi Germany did. They also fell very quickly due to the USSR, US, and British, which is why the damage was "limited" to just that.

[Vladimir80]

Well your apparent utter hatred for the US and everything about it has to come from somewhere


And you are being rather patronizing today.

[Kiaar]

And you are being rather patronizing today.

Not really, if you read some of his posts. Many people here dislike the US or hate the current administration, but I've not seen many others bashing US citizens or showing as much contempt as he has.

[Vladimir80]

Not really, if you read some of his posts. Many people here dislike the US or hate the current administration, but I've not seen many others bashing US citizens or showing as much contempt as he has.

Have you forgotten where you are? Do you think people coming to Iran Defence are going to like the USA... wake up pleazzz!

[Kiaar]

Have you forgotten where you are? Do you think people coming to Iran Defence are going to like the USA... wake up pleazzz!

Did I ever say they would?

Perhaps if I started stereotyping and insulting Russians that would be ok?

[Vladimir80]

Did I ever say they would?

Perhaps if I started stereotyping and insulting Russians that would be ok?

Why not, everyone else does it... motherland, vodka, natashas, I have heard it all on here.

[daddy]

I'm sorry to say but my half joke half insult approached nowhere near the levels you insult my country and it's people constantly. But that's not relevant right now.
that's your opinion


America is the current superpower, and historically, those tend to be the ones that cause the most trouble. Eventually it will be someone else's turn, and I'd bet you a good sum of cash that during that time everyone is going to hate that nation.


well mate to be fair to both sides and considering this is IRIran defence forum, i won't name any christian or muslim power, nor any european (or descendant powers like yanks)powers nor middle eastern powers....i'll name one that's far removed from this discussion....the middle kingdom, ie. china. did china during its heyday go around the world killing enslaving capturing, looting pillaging etc foreign lands? no.
sure chinese reached east coast of africa etc and collected a few giraffes and other specimens, but treating other human lives with such low regard, only christianit ypreaches that IF WE GO BY ACTIONS OF CHRISTIANS (i.e. european christians not elsewhere)

does that mean yankees are what i've already described them to be? sure.

[Oriellien]

it should be the plural of "someone" what is that? "someoneS"?
anyway, if some group is truly unintelligent (say teh yanks, for example) what shall i call them?

I was talking about you talking about me not the yanks. So no, singular will suffice.

[Oriellien]

that's your opinion



well mate to be fair to both sides and considering this is IRIran defence forum, i won't name any christian or muslim power, nor any european (or descendant powers like yanks)powers nor middle eastern powers....i'll name one that's far removed from this discussion....the middle kingdom, ie. china. did china during its heyday go around the world killing enslaving capturing, looting pillaging etc foreign lands? no.
sure chinese reached east coast of africa etc and collected a few giraffes and other specimens, but treating other human lives with such low regard, only christianit ypreaches that IF WE GO BY ACTIONS OF CHRISTIANS (i.e. european christians not elsewhere)

does that mean yankees are what i've already described them to be? sure.

China did actually. The superpower status of Ancient China was at a time where it wasnt feasible to go around the world, but they did terrorize/invade the lands they could to expand their kingdom. If they had the ability to invade farther lands they probaly would. If Ancient Egypt could have, they would have too, so would Ancient Rome and every other world power.

[Darkblade]

Mathematic advanced a lot during Islamic empire ,Baburs in India
Damn I hate them

They hate you too.

[Kiaar]

that's your opinion



well mate to be fair to both sides and considering this is IRIran defence forum, i won't name any christian or muslim power, nor any european (or descendant powers like yanks)powers nor middle eastern powers....i'll name one that's far removed from this discussion....the middle kingdom, ie. china. did china during its heyday go around the world killing enslaving capturing, looting pillaging etc foreign lands? no.
sure chinese reached east coast of africa etc and collected a few giraffes and other specimens, but treating other human lives with such low regard, only christianit ypreaches that IF WE GO BY ACTIONS OF CHRISTIANS (i.e. european christians not elsewhere)

does that mean yankees are what i've already described them to be? sure.

Aside from what was already posted, China's time was short lived in respects to ability to move about the world. The emperor that had built their great fleet which gave them total control of the oceans (can't remember his name) didn't last long enough for it to have an effect. Once he died and the next emperor took over, the giant navy was dismantled and at the time, without a large and capable navy, world travel was not feasible.

[Vladimir80]

China's time was short lived in respects to ability to move about the world. The emperor that had built their great fleet which gave them total control of the oceans (can't remember his name) didn't last long enough for it to have an effect. Once he died and the next emperor took over, the giant navy was dismantled and at the time, without a large and capable navy, world travel was not feasible.

The Chinese Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne stopped traveling the oceans because of the Confucius movement in China that forbade outside interference and turned to a policy of isolationism. This would not be such a bad thing for the US to turn to... ie mind your own business.

[Kiaar]

The Chinese Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne stopped traveling the oceans because of the Confucius movement in China that forbade outside interference and turned to a policy of isolationism. This would not be such a bad thing for the US to turn to... ie mind your own business.

We had that policy a hundred years ago and Europe and the Japanese managed to ruin it for us (TWICE!).

[Vladimir80]

We had that policy a hundred years ago and Europe and the Japanese managed to ruin it for us (TWICE!).

The US never really had that policy... ie lend lease

[Kiaar]

The US never really had that policy... ie lend lease

Lend lease was a direct of that policy actually. Congress wanted to stay completely out, but Roosevelt was able to convince them to do the Lend Lease in a compromise for staying out of it. It was the Presidents idea- but it was isolationism which kept the US out of the war as long as it did.


The irony is that it's actually the fault of Germany and Japan for the US's current power. It was the war that they started that allowed the US to rise so quickly.

[Vladimir80]

Lend lease was a direct of that policy actually. Congress wanted to stay completely out, but Roosevelt was able to convince them to do the Lend Lease in a compromise for staying out of it. It was the Presidents idea- but it was isolationism which kept the US out of the war as long as it did.

It was a compromise that is incompatible with isolationism... FDR chose to get involved by lend lease and he won. Minding your own business does mean supplying the other sides enemies with war material.


The irony is that it's actually the fault of Germany and Japan for the US's current power. It was the war that they started that allowed the US to rise so quickly.

and they just continued to grow and grow and grow until they had bases all over the world. It's like a plague...

[Kiaar]

It was a compromise that is incompatible with isolationism... FDR chose to get involved by lend lease and he won. Minding your own business does mean supplying the other sides enemies with war material.


True, but as I said, it was a result of isolationism. Without the want for isolationism, there would have been no lend lease. The US would have had a more active participation in the war from earlier on.


and they just continued to grow and grow and grow until they had bases all over the world. It's like a plague...

The Russians helped quite a bit with that. Fear of the USSR and communism made it very easy for the US to convince European countries, or any other ones around the world scared of the USSR/Communism, to allow US military bases to be on their soil.

[Vladimir80]

True, but as I said, it was a result of isolationism. Without the want for isolationism, there would have been no lend lease. The US would have had a more active participation in the war from earlier on.

If the want for isolationism had won there would have been no lend lease... your statement is contradictory.


The Russians helped quite a bit with that. Fear of the USSR and communism made it very easy for the US to convince European countries, or any other ones around the world scared of the USSR/Communism, to allow US military bases to be on their soil.


Russia only had bases in Syria, Cuba, and Vietnam... I think US is the one with the problem... not CCCP.

[Kiaar]

If the want for isolationism had won there would have been no lend lease... your statement is contradictory.


If there was no isolationism, there would have been no lend lease. Hence it led to it, as opposed to an earlier entrance directly into the war.


Russia only had bases in Syria, Cuba, and Vietnam... I think US is the one with the problem... not CCCP.

It convinced pretty much every western European country that the bases the US had there left over from the war were also necessary, since at the time the US was the only country powerful enough to stand toe to toe with the USSR and Europe was still reeling from the destruction of WWII.

Russia also had so few bases because no one, except other communists, wanted USSR soldiers in their country. Even communist China wasn't on great terms with the USSR.

[Vladimir80]

If there was no isolationism, there would have been no lend lease. Hence it led to it, as opposed to an earlier entrance directly into the war.

That makes no sense... if there was no isolationism there would have been lend lease sooner and sooner entry into the war. The point being your isolationist movement never really held power or they would have not even done lend lease.


It convinced pretty much every western European country that the bases the US had there left over from the war were also necessary, since at the time the US was the only country powerful enough to stand toe to toe with the USSR and Europe was still reeling from the destruction of WWII.

The US convinced Western Europe that the "Big Bad Bear" was going to come and get them so they could set up bases when the CCCP was more devastated than the rest of the continent.


Russia also had so few bases because no one, except other communists, wanted USSR soldiers in their country. Even communist China wasn't on great terms with the USSR.

CCCP had few bases because we were not concerned with dominating the world, just for providing bases for our submarines to maintain MAD deterent. The stuff you saying is just American learned Cold War progoganda.

[Oriellien]

Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
East Germany
Hungary
Poland
Romania
Ukraine

These countries for example was taken over by RSFSR and their economies used to benefit the USSR.

It was about Soviet influence vs Western Europe/USA influence in the world.

[Vladimir80]

Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
East Germany
Hungary
Poland
Romania

It was about Soviet influence vs Western Europe/USA influence in the world.

That was captured territory... I don't see you saying jack about Israeli military reservations in West Bank

[Oriellien]

That was captured territory... I don't see you saying jack about Israeli military reservations in West Bank

But, not captured from the Germans, captured from their indengenious populations under the guise of WWII, hence the reason Western Europe feared the USSR and wanted the USA involved.

Edit: And just a note, im not saying USSR was bad or anything, im just saying Western Europe wasnt coaxed into fearing the USSR by the US.

[Vladimir80]

But, not captured from the Germans, captured from their indengenious populations under the guise of WWII, hence the reason Western Europe feared the USSR and wanted the USA involved.

Just like the capture of Palestinian territories... The US was the one preaching all the hate about Red Commie Pinko Russians. Do I have to show the posters? It was US propoganda and US use of nuclear weapons that frighten everyone especially on my side of the curtain. Most of what we did was reaction to US just like it is now.

[Kiaar]

But, not captured from the Germans, captured from their indengenious populations under the guise of WWII, hence the reason Western Europe feared the USSR and wanted the USA involved.

Edit: And just a note, im not saying USSR was bad or anything, im just saying Western Europe wasnt coaxed into fearing the USSR by the US.

What exactly was the USSR doing in Afghanistan by the way if all they wanted was missile bases?

They were trying to spread communism through force, even if the people didn't want it. They were the communist version of what the US is doing today.

[Vladimir80]

They were trying to spread communism through force, even if the people didn't want it. They were the communist version of what the US is doing today.

Communism had already been in A-stan for a number of years preceding the invasion and they came about it of their own free will... we didn't impose anything on them. The government of A-stan was taken over by CIA. It is nothing like what Americans did in A-stan and Iraq, overthrew legitamate governments and try to impose their style of government... not even close mate.

[Kiaar]

Communism had already been in A-stan for a number of years preceding the invasion and they came about it of their own free will... we didn't impose anything on them. The government of A-stan called for our help and we responded. It is nothing like what Americans did in A-stan and Iraq, overthrew legitamate governments and try to impose their style of government... not even close mate.

Considering a decent chunk of the population was fighting to depose the communist government, it apparently didn't come of their free will so much. The thing about communism is that it imposes itself upon EVERYONE, not just those who want it.

Also, when the taliban government supported Al-Qaeda and an attack on the US, they pretty much declared war. The war in Afghanistan was completely called for and supported world wide. Iraq is another story though.

[Vladimir80]

The thing about communism is that it imposes itself upon EVERYONE, not just those who want it.

That is the same for ANY government...


Also, when the taliban government supported Al-Qaeda and an attack on the US, they pretty much declared war. The war in Afghanistan was completely called for and supported world wide. Iraq is another story though.

Just because they didn't want to bow to the will of the US doesn't mean they declared war... stop acting all high and mighty. It is just like UK asking for extradition and telling us to change our constitution... we tell them to F off. Taliban does the same to you and you attack...

[Kiaar]

That is the same for ANY government...



Just because they didn't want to bow to the will of the US doesn't mean they declared war... stop acting all high and mighty. It is just like UK asking for extradition and telling us to change our constitution... we tell them to F off. Taliban does the same to you and you attack...

So if a group that was both funded by the US government and actually lived in the US killed a few thousand people in Moscow, you wouldn't blame the US?

[Vladimir80]

So if a group that was both funded by the US government and actually lived in the US killed a few thousand people in Moscow, you wouldn't blame the US?

Blame them... yes... attack them... HELL NO!

[Kiaar]

Blame them... yes... attack them... HELL NO!

Well, obviously, since it would end up destroying a good chunk of civilization.

It also doesn't seem like most Afghani's liked the Taliban, considering the only ones fighting back (unlike in Iraq) are government loyalists and Al-Qaeda affiliated groups. And most of those are suicide bombings of civilians. The few actual "real" combat situations end up with them getting slaughtered.

[Vladimir80]

It also doesn't seem like most Afghani's liked the Taliban, considering the only ones fighting back (unlike in Iraq) are government loyalists and Al-Qaeda affiliated groups. And most of those are suicide bombings of civilians. The few actual "real" combat situations end up with them getting slaughtered.

The Afghans didn't like the strict laws but they sure liked it better than all the violence today... needless to say of Iraqi feelings on that subject. :roflmao3:

Don't even think to say that the violence isn't the fault of the US because it is directly attributable to the invasions.

[Kiaar]

The Afghans didn't like the strict laws but they sure liked it better than all the violence today... needless to say of Iraqi feelings on that subject. :roflmao3:

Don't even think to say that the violence isn't the fault of the US because it is directly attributable to the invasions.

Which is a direct result of the Afghani government supporting attacks on US soil.
The violence in Afghanistan is also restricted mostly to certain regions where the taliban still has influence.

[Vladimir80]

Which is a direct result of the Afghani government supporting attacks on US soil.

I believe you said the Taliban declared war by not meeting your demands... not bending to the US is not a declaration of war


The violence in Afghanistan is also restricted mostly to certain regions where the taliban still has influence.

It's about to make Pakistan fall apart if you hadn't been paying attention.

[Kiaar]

I believe you said the Taliban declared war by not meeting your demands... not bending to the US is not a declaration of war


I don't recall saying that at all. I said they declared war by supporting Al-Qaeda, and supplying them with money/physical support, who then attacked us.


It's about to make Pakistan fall apart if you hadn't been paying attention.

That problem isn't solely from the US. The recent Red Mosque incident had nothing to do with the US, and that's a major issue in Pakistan right now. Plus their giant undeveloped tribal area where all these religious nuts have power is what is causing the problem.

[Vladimir80]

I don't recall saying that at all. I said they declared war by supporting Al-Qaeda, and supplying them with money/physical support, who then attacked us.

You said it again, just in different words than I reiterated. Taliban houses Al Queda, US demands Osama, Taliban tells you to go to hell... you attack.



That problem isn't solely from the US. The recent Red Mosque incident had nothing to do with the US, and that's a major issue in Pakistan right now. Plus their giant undeveloped tribal area where all these religious nuts have power is what is causing the problem.

The internal problems of Pakistan are directly attributable to US actions by inflaming the populace. Mushy wouldn't even care if US didn't threaten them...

[Oriellien]

Just like the capture of Palestinian territories... The US was the one preaching all the hate about Red Commie Pinko Russians. Do I have to show the posters? It was US propoganda and US use of nuclear weapons that frighten everyone especially on my side of the curtain. Most of what we did was reaction to US just like it is now.

What about all the smash Capitalism posters? USSR was just as aggressive as the US.

And, Al-Qaeda was an active part of the Taliban. Many A-Q commanders were part of the Taliban government. The Taliban supported A-Q. The US was completely justified in removing them from power. Communism was never popular in Afghanistan either, thats why the soviet occupation of it is being compared to the US occupation of Iraq.

[Vladimir80]

What about all the smash Capitalism posters? USSR was just as aggressive as the US.

CCCP focused on more uplifting patriotic images in most of their propoganda. The US seemed more apt to deamonize and vilify their opponents.

And, Al-Qaeda was an active part of the Taliban. Many A-Q commanders were part of the Taliban government. The Taliban supported A-Q. The US was completely justified in removing them from power. Communism was never popular in Afghanistan either, thats why the soviet occupation of it is being compared to the US occupation of Iraq.

The Soviet in Afghanistan is properly compared to Vietnam, not your A-stan. The US had a right to get Al Queda they didn't have a right to destabalize the country. If you can't fix what you broke you shouldn't have played with it in the first place.

[daddy]

I was talking about you talking about me not the yanks. So no, singular will suffice.

i was talking about yanks, not you....

[Vladimir80]

i was talking about yanks, not you....

What are you talking about? He is a yank...

[daddy]

China did actually. The superpower status of Ancient China was at a time where it wasnt feasible to go around the world, but they did terrorize/invade the lands they could to expand their kingdom.

Source? dont talk nonsense unless you can back it up with some real proof in which case it becomes credible....




If they had the ability to invade farther lands they probaly would. If Ancient Egypt could have, they would have too, so would Ancient Rome and every other world power.

just to make yankee criminality look less negative eh? what proof do you have of this claim?

fyi, middle kingdom DID have the ability to go to africa, to attack them, to enslave them, to sell them, to colonize them, etc etc which spain (for example) a much less advanced country when columbo reached americas DID.....

(christian) spain got ALL of the knowledge it had from more advanced muslims who ruled spain and made it the most advanced place in christian europe (not saying much, considering the level of advancement in europe but keep in mind this fact) although not as advanced as muslim spain christians still had guns etc acquired from muslim lands, however this minimum level of advancement ALONE was temptation enough for blo.ody ro(((( christian spain to go on colonizing americas (well they were looking for routes to "india", hence the naming of all those tribes in americas as "indians" eg red indians, apache indians, etc etc but they couldn't use land routes as muslim ruled lands in between MERELY embargoed and blocked their travel to india rather than invading and massacring the bl***** hypocritical christians for their treatment of muslims jews in spain, that's how generous muslims were they merely blocked passage to india also ruled by muslims btw...

spain (incl. portugal) wasn't alone in this venture, but also france, netherlands, uk, etc many many christian countries were the first and foremost to behave so atrociously although many others HAD THE ABILITY.....it tells us about christianity a lot IF WE USE THESE ACTS TO JUDGE CHRISTIANITY.....

[Vladimir80]

Source? dont talk nonsense unless you can back it up with some real proof in which case it becomes credible....

Daddy...

I will back up your point by using the Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne par example, They had the largest naval and amphibious capability the world had ever known but the only thing they ever did was send trade missions. They didn't use their power to conquer...

[daddy]

Aside from what was already posted, China's time was short lived in respects to ability to move about the world. The emperor that had built their great fleet which gave them total control of the oceans (can't remember his name) didn't last long enough for it to have an effect. Once he died and the next emperor took over, the giant navy was dismantled and at the time, without a large and capable navy, world travel was not feasible.

not true at all mate, it wasn't short lived and it did have the ability. what it lacked was the INTENTION......for example a SUPPOSEDLY muslim and supposedly eunuch, zheng he, did make a voyage upto eastern coast of africa, he did bring a lot of things back to middle kingdom, but not human beings from foreign lands sold into slavery though....for example

[daddy]

We had that policy a hundred years ago and Europe and the Japanese managed to ruin it for us (TWICE!).

there is a MASSIVE difference.....many countries today are also "isolationist" whatever that may mean (eg without meaning any offence to anybody, north korea comes to mind)......but they're not necessarily amongst the foremost military, economic and political powers......

china was that during those times and they didn't cause much trouble....christian spain (not only them, brits dutch etc) weren't at that time but they did all these...now the yanks do the same....
however what you mention was at a time when yanks weren't one of the foremost countries in these fields....

[daddy]

But, not captured from the Germans, captured from their indengenious populations under the guise of WWII, hence the reason Western Europe feared the USSR and wanted the USA involved.

Edit: And just a note, im not saying USSR was bad or anything, im just saying Western Europe wasnt coaxed into fearing the USSR by the US.

sorry to barge into this conversation between you two, but i've to. can you take that conversation elsewhere, maybe thru' PM?

also sorry to tell, anglos (with their british empire spread around the world), french (ditto) and so on, they were on yankee side, because most yankees hailed from anglo, french (not so much),german etc origins.....hence the result. nothing to do with ussr being bad, being threatening western europe etc....

[daddy]

What are you talking about? He is a yank...

quoting "him"
Originally Posted by Oriellien
I was talking about you talking about me not the yanks. So no, singular will suffice

[Oriellien]

Its would have been completely infeasible for China to conquer Africa during those times, weather they had the biggest fleet or not. It would be like settling the Moon in the 19th century. As for the land around it, just take a look at expansion maps of Ancient China. It didnt take/lose/take again the land it did peacefully.

[Vladimir80]

Its would have been completely infeasible for China to conquer Africa during those times, weather they had the biggest fleet or not. It would be like settling the Moon in the 19th century. As for the land around it, just take a look at expansion maps of Ancient China. It didnt take/lose/take again the land it did peacefully.

The Treasure Fleet was said to contain 40,000 troops... I think back then they could conquer any African nation they wanted.

[Oriellien]

The Treasure Fleet was said to contain 40,000 troops... I think back then they could conquer any African nation they wanted.

I dont know how easily they could conquer North African countries. As for the rest, what would they do then?

[Vladimir80]

I dont know how easily they could conquer North African countries. As for the rest, what would they do then?

They would have been limited to the nations on the Indian Ocean or South East Asia. Cylon was a thriving center of trade for all of South Asia at that time and would have made for excellent plunder. There was a hostage crises at one point and the Emporer, rather than using his marines, decided to negotiate a deal that didn't resort to bloodshed.

[Oriellien]

They would have been limited to the nations on the Indian Ocean or South East Asia. Cylon was a thriving center of trade for all of South Asia at that time and would have made for excellent plunder. There was a hostage crises at one point and the Emporer, rather than using his marines, decided to negotiate a deal that didn't resort to bloodshed.

But that could have sparked a war with Persia if its in the same timeframe.

[Vladimir80]

But that could have sparked a war with Persia if its in the same timeframe.

I don't think Persia ever controlled Cylon.

[Oriellien]

I don't think Persia ever controlled Cylon.

Might be a mixup. Do you mean Ceylon which is current day Sri Lanka?

[Vladimir80]

Might be a mixup. Do you mean Ceylon which is current day Sri Lanka?

Sri Lanka... yeah

[amir_behbahani]

There has never been and will never be any yankee great mind !
In america you have to waste all your energy protecting your property (including your ideas) and playing politics with everyone you encounter even your wife,

The reason is the nature of america : bringing different nationalities together to invent newer methods of cutting each others throats , wild west or "new england" style.

The result : Edison the best america had to offer was mainly a redneck interested in simplistic backyard projects (i dont deny the technological advances in america but theoratical science is different than vaccum cleaners and oxafom ) , he was born and raised in the US so he could protect and take advantage of his own works ; he started his own company became rich and used to swap his wives for a new 16 year old redneck chick after each 10 year time interval ;
Tesla on the other hand dwarfs edison in innovation , ingenuity , complication and highly theoratical and sophisticated scientific works he offered. yet he spent his time in america as a poor serbian immigrant and had to fight a stupid "current war" with biggot redneck edison, he didnt get anywhere close to edison , he died poor and in heavy debt and all his life he couldnt get his hands on a chick.

------------------------------------------------------

Also , original americans were stupid and religious.

[Ragnarok]

You are correct, Edison wasn't a theorist, but he was pretty good as an inventor. Feynman, Gell-Mann, Einstein, Hawkings, Gibbs, Henry, Millikan, and Compton are just a few Americans that pushed the theoretical boundaries of physics.

[amir_behbahani]

You are correct, Edison wasn't a theorist, but he was pretty good as an inventor. Feynman, Gell-Mann, Einstein, Hawkings, Gibbs, Henry, Millikan, and Compton are just a few Americans that pushed the theoretical boundaries of physics.

Say out the last names aloud to yourself , how many were born and raised in america ? how many had "american"(redneck) parents ?

[Kiaar]

You are correct, Edison wasn't a theorist, but he was pretty good as an inventor. Feynman, Gell-Mann, Einstein, Hawkings, Gibbs, Henry, Millikan, and Compton are just a few Americans that pushed the theoretical boundaries of physics.

Actually Hawkings is British.

[Kiaar]

Say out the last names aloud to yourself , how many were born and raised in america ? how many had "american"(redneck) parents ?

Feynman, Gell-Man, Gibbs, Millikan, and Compton were all born and raised Americans. Einstein was obviously a German-Jew who came to the US before WWII started and played a key role in developing the nuclear bomb and also came up with the concepts of relativity.

Henry I don't know, because the name Henry by itself isn't enough to find a person on. It's too common.

[Ragnarok]

You are correct Kiaar, Hawkings is British. That is what I get for firing off names from the top of my head. Henry is Joseph Henry, who independently of Faraday developed laws of EM, and as such the measure of inductance is named after him.

[Kiaar]

You are correct Kiaar, Hawkings is British. That is what I get for firing off names from the top of my head. Henry is Joseph Henry, who independently of Faraday developed laws of EM, and as such the measure of inductance is named after him.

Ah ok, thanks. Henry is just such a common name I couldn't dig anything up on him :)

[mustavaris]

American Americans have invented a lot, and when someone talks about how the immigrants have done this and that and says that the Americans cannot do a crap, (s)he forgets something very essential - American culture (or lack of it) is based on immigration, that´s the nature of that society. Regardless of that, all parts of the American society have contributed to the development.. as the Americans onboard have clearly shown. And when we say that Einstein (or person XX) wasnt American and how the Greek (or Y) came up with this and that, remember that the truly great (wo)men are far and few, and the USA is a young nation, barely over 200 years old and from which it has been really advanced and big only for.. around/less than 150 years if I am asked.

While the only true weakness (maybe it aint a weakness at all) in American society is that it very mundane and from my European point of view lacks some high culture and sophistication if I am asked.. You know soccer vs. American football, snooker vs. pool, bourbons vs. scotch whiskey, real beer vs. American beer (hey, those microbreweries do not exist!) and so forth, one could continue quite long. That´s the area where one could bash them, if there is need;)

[Vladimir80]

Americans don't really invent much of anything... they just improve on others work which is fine but they shouldn't act all high and mighty like Zraver and claim they was the first.

[mustavaris]

Americans don't really invent much of anything... they just improve on others work which is fine but they shouldn't act all high and mighty like Zraver and claim they was the first.

Kinda like Romans then;)

[Vladimir80]

Kinda like Romans then;)

In the Roman histories they were quick to give credit to the Greeks.

[mustavaris]

In the Roman histories they were quick to give credit to the Greeks.

Yes indeed, while I must also say that the American scientists and inventors themselves ain´t the same thing as the Americans who think that they "were the best/first/whatever". We do not know what the average Roman thought about their empire´s might..

[Vladimir80]

We do not know what the average Roman thought about their empire´s might..

We know what they thought of themselves through the histories... rather highly but they gave credit where it was due. At least the historians did, the the common folk were probably too ignorant to know any better like Zraver.

[daddy]

I dont know how easily they could conquer North African countries. As for the rest, what would they do then?

afaik, chinese reached east coast of africa not north africa (which in any case is separated from subsahran africa by sahara desert no surprise there), and oh wait what novelty could've chinese done to the africans? maybe like the anglos and christians of europe, like enslaving them?

[daddy]

oh goodness me, i sooooo agree with you mate, it's disconcerting to see you've been banned (temporarily i hope)....i dont understand why. what you wrote is a reflection of reality



There has never been and will never be any yankee great mind !
In america you have to waste all your energy protecting your property (including your ideas) and playing politics with everyone you encounter even your wife,

The reason is the nature of america : bringing different nationalities together to invent newer methods of cutting each others throats , wild west or "new england" style.

The result : Edison the best america had to offer was mainly a redneck interested in simplistic backyard projects (i dont deny the technological advances in america but theoratical science is different than vaccum cleaners and oxafom ) , he was born and raised in the US so he could protect and take advantage of his own works ; he started his own company became rich and used to swap his wives for a new 16 year old redneck chick after each 10 year time interval ;
Tesla on the other hand dwarfs edison in innovation , ingenuity , complication and highly theoratical and sophisticated scientific works he offered. yet he spent his time in america as a poor serbian immigrant and had to fight a stupid "current war" with biggot redneck edison, he didnt get anywhere close to edison , he died poor and in heavy debt and all his life he couldnt get his hands on a chick.

------------------------------------------------------

Also , original americans were stupid and religious.

[Ragnarok]

He was banned for comments in another thread. Of course you agree with him, so what. Keep on believing moronic thoughts like an entire geographic area is devoid of intelligence and said geographic area will continue to advance the body of knowledge unabated and unaware of your ignorance.

[mustavaris]

oh goodness me, i sooooo agree with you mate, it's disconcerting to see you've been banned (temporarily i hope)....i dont understand why. what you wrote is a reflection of reality

I guess that the first banning set his mind out of orbit... at least, he was rather ok though questionable before.. now clearly over the edge.

[DehdaR]

These 3 should all be on the list, but I only see the German guy.

Gottfried Leibniz, Al-Khwarizmi and Brahmagupta.

[daddy]

He was banned for comments in another thread. Of course you agree with him, so what. Keep on believing moronic thoughts like an entire geographic area is devoid of intelligence and said geographic area will continue to advance the body of knowledge unabated and unaware of your ignorance.

mate frankly that sounds like the moronic thought! surely you wouldn't believe empty space between mars and jupiter is full of intelligent life forms, for example, that 'will continue to advance......unaware of your ignorance'....:roflmao3:

so yeah it's possible theoretically for certain geographical areas to lack intelligence, of the highest calibre....to me that's nothing disconcerting..to me it's disconcerting when that region, for example, possesses the most weaponry and goes around killing and threatening more advanced places elsewhere...

[Kiaar]

mate frankly that sounds like the moronic thought! surely you wouldn't believe empty space between mars and jupiter is full of intelligent life forms, for example, that 'will continue to advance......unaware of your ignorance'....:roflmao3:


Huh...?


so yeah it's possible theoretically for certain geographical areas to lack intelligence, of the highest calibre....to me that's nothing disconcerting..to me it's disconcerting when that region, for example, possesses the most weaponry and goes around killing and threatening more advanced places elsewhere...

If those places being threatened are more advanced and more intelligent, why is their technology inferior to that other place? :huh2:

[Ragnarok]

Daddy for 1000 points what does the first three letters in geographical mean and why does that completely invalidate any argument dealing with space.

Semantics aside, I agree that there are places on the Earth(this is what geo means) that are devoid of humans(in any large concentration) so those places are also devoid of genius, but where I cease agreeing with you is in statistics.

Given that there is no credible evidence that any particular group of people is significantly more intelligent than another(and even if this was true it wouldn't apply to America as it is composed of all groups), then statistics would dictate that all of these groups would have a proportionate amount of geniuses. Testing has backed up the statistical model for IQ distributions(despite IQ not being a straight measure of intelligence), so America like every other part of this world that has a significant population has an proportionate number of inborn genius.

If every part of the world is roughly proportionate in intelligence why does America(and western countries in general) have a disproportionate level of technological advancement? Very simply as I explained earlier it has to do exactly with the opportunity of environment, but additionally America pours an incredibly amount of resources into scientific research(on the industrial and educational level). This draws both naturally born American genius and foreign born genius to the states for both study and later employment.

Make all the ignorant statements you want, but they will not change a simple fact like the US University system has the highest scientific output. If you are in one of these countries that are being "threatened" perhaps you should focus on the development of your own country rather than the deriding of another. Or you could just turn off your computer since silly scientific advancements never happened.(Which of course were not all American)

[daddy]

^^yawn, feel like sleeping now... i'll hopefully answer your pro-yankee posts later.

[Kiaar]

^^yawn, feel like sleeping now... i'll hopefully answer your pro-yankee posts later.

What he means is...

I have no response to your replies.

[daddy]

Huh...?
no comments needed...



If those places being threatened are more advanced and more intelligent, why is their technology inferior to that other place? :huh2:

again yankee stupidity shows, no comments necessary.
:roflmao3:
if a herd of animals in LET's SAY africa is free to do whatever they want and in comes JUST ONE intelligent person he won't be able to tame them all, nor kill them nor control them, chances are against tens of thousands of those lowly intelligent creatures he(the intelligent person alone) will be killed.....
however i highly doubt any human being ever anywhere will claim the untamed animals of jungles were more intelligent......

if going by this story, you claim those animals had the upper hand in technology, well more power to you
:roflmao3:

[daddy]

Daddy for 1000 points what does the first three letters in geographical mean and why does that completely invalidate any argument dealing with space.
what 1000 points?
from answers.com

ge·og·ra·phy (jē-ŏg'rə-fē)
n., pl. -phies.

The study of the earth and its features and of the distribution of life on the earth, including human life and the effects of human activity.
The physical characteristics, especially the surface features, of an area.
A book on geography.
An ordered arrangement of constituent elements: charting a geography of the mind



ge·o·graph·ic (jē'ə-grăf'ĭk) also ge·o·graph·i·cal (-ĭ-kəl)
adj.
Of or relating to geography.
Concerning the topography of a specific region.


the rest you can decide (maybe not considering you're a yank)


Semantics aside, I agree that there are places on the Earth(this is what geo means) that are devoid of humans(in any large concentration) so those places are also devoid of genius, but where I cease agreeing with you is in statistics.
'geo' may mean 'earth' in greek, but 'graphy' also means 'writing'......your point being? 'earth writing' areas?:biggrin1:


Given that there is no credible evidence that any particular group of people is significantly more intelligent than another(and even if this was true it wouldn't apply to America as it is composed of all groups), then statistics would dictate that all of these groups would have a proportionate amount of geniuses.

come again? the above sounds like b**locks....but maybe this is regular affair in yankeeland.


Testing has backed up the statistical model for IQ distributions(despite IQ not being a straight measure of intelligence), so America like every other part of this world that has a significant population has an proportionate number of inborn genius.

what? come again. or again, yankee propaganda? i for one haven't seen nor heard of any born and bred yankee intelligent genius ever, however you keep calling your own compatriots the best in the world in all these "phantom" fields, mate it feels awkward really.



If every part of the world is roughly proportionate in intelligence why does America(and western countries in general) have a disproportionate level of technological advancement?

one does not in any way depend on the other? most if not all of yankee tech is derived from europe....:biggrin1: european science, european philosophy, european tech, european religion (whatever that is), european languages, etc etc whoever COPIED those will have a COPY of those european characteristics.....japan for example. surely it isn't WESTERN by any means...


Very simply as I explained earlier it has to do exactly with the opportunity of environment, but additionally America pours an incredibly amount of resources into scientific research(on the industrial and educational level). This draws both naturally born American genius and foreign born genius to the states for both study and later employment.

i see this is the latest propaganda coming out of yankee homeland secretary or whatever other govt propaganda outlet there is in yankeeland....truth though may differ, sorry to say.


Make all the ignorant statements you want, but they will not change a simple fact like the US University system has the highest scientific output.
if you mean highest NUMBER of papers etc, then it may be true as yankeeland has more people, more universities etc (i.e. greater QUANTITY) but NOTABLE scientific output (i.e quality) my dear friend may be lacking...


If you are in one of these countries that are being "threatened" perhaps you should focus on the development of your own country rather than the deriding of another.
mate don't get derailed, there's no point in getting angry frustrated etc at lack of yankee intelligence, it's not really your fault, yanks just don't have it.


Or you could just turn off your computer since silly scientific advancements never happened.(Which of course were not all American)
come again? why should i turn off my computer? is it bcoz yanks are losing this argument? i dont see why that merits my computer being turned off?

yanks surely dont make coherent speeches, if gw bush, and your compatriots in this forum are anything to go by.

:roflmao3:

[daddy]

What he means is...

I have no response to your replies.

that may be a typical yankee response.....however after having had a good nap, and done some other work that need not be mentioned, i replied proving both you and your other compatriots wrong,......

i feel pity for poor yanks (not monetarily poor yanks, yanks in general)
:roflmao3:

[Ragnarok]

Daddy, your argument style is that of a troll(internet term). No substance and all emotion, but like most trolls you fail to judge the emotional impact your words make. You think I am defensive of America(or how you call it yankeeland) and that such attacks anger me, but what you do not understand about me is that my defense is of humanity. If you said such things about any collection of humans I would defend it exactly as I have because I am not defending a country but the truth of the equality of humanity.

Only a small mind ignores the vast number of things that make all humans the same and focuses on the little things that divide us. Honestly, I came to the conclusion long ago that making an argument with you would be futile, but I continued down that lunacy for the benefit of others who read this, for I believe we do not need anymore voices in this world sowing discord.

[Kiaar]

again yankee stupidity shows, no comments necessary.
:roflmao3:
if a herd of animals in LET's SAY africa is free to do whatever they want and in comes JUST ONE intelligent person he won't be able to tame them all, nor kill them nor control them, chances are against tens of thousands of those lowly intelligent creatures he(the intelligent person alone) will be killed.....
however i highly doubt any human being ever anywhere will claim the untamed animals of jungles were more intelligent......

if going by this story, you claim those animals had the upper hand in technology, well more power to you
:roflmao3:


You seem to have once again showed your utter lack of capability in understanding what was being said...

To better your example, it's more like we have two tribes of ancient humans. One group has just started to use tools- sticks, rocks, etc. while the other is still trying out to figure out how to do so, and therefore has a disadvantage because they must do everything with their hands or with less effective means than using those tools. At least until they figure them out. This example is probably simple enough for you, but you have a way of distorting reality.

In this case you seem to fail to understand that the more advanced tribe is America, who has vastly superior technology in both military and industry (that it can even make itself) than from any other non Western or allied country, aside from Russia and a quickly advancing China. China isn't quite there yet, but will be soon.

It's not really an issue of numbers, unless of course you mean money, which the US has a lot of. I find it hilarious, and somewhat pathetic, that you argue about lack of intelligence in regards to a country that is one of the most technologically advanced in the world and that has the best college/universities in the world, especially when you see people from all over the world trying to get in to them. Of course there are great schools elsewhere, the UK has some very good ones, but on average the US has the best educational system for college level students.

You seem unwilling to let us know what country you live in, which leads me to believe that you're probably embarrassed about it.

[daddy]

Daddy, your argument style is that of a troll(internet term). No substance and all emotion, but like most trolls you fail to judge the ...blah blah blah blah blah....we do not need anymore voices in this world .........

well mate that sounds like you just described your ownself! what argument have you been presenting here in this thread? to begin with, i presented a VERY PRO western list of great mathematicians, none was a yank (out of 100)...now that's VERY VERY pro western, with hardly any mention or suggestion of other thinkers' contributions. never mind that pro western bias.

i started off saying (in neutral fashion) IF anybody could find me a great yankee thinker/mind in that list or anywhere else......nobody could.
some ppl even accused me of insanity bcoz they inferred i suggested yankee minds are great! clearly none of them agreed with this lunatic idea.

now fyi i present 2 you ANOTHER list (this time from none other than a YANKEE source itself).....i'll warn you though i think this list is flawed (well any such list of a mere 10 persons will be heavily flawed and controversial, as sum1 will feel sum1 else is left out etc), and incomplete....

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200006/top10.cfm

More Top Ten Physicists
That's It Folks! For the Last Time: Even More Top Ten PhysicistsEmail | Print
About your list of "top ten physicists": I think that although Heisenberg, Feynman, Schr"dinger were very important, they are in the list because of either their charisma (Feynman - why not Tomonaga or Schwinger, then ?) or because they summed up the advances of debates at their times (Heisenberg and Schroedinger : without de Broglie, Born, Planck, I do not think they would be there). I suggest to replace them with people like Faraday, Ampere, Coulomb, Gauss, who were more "stand-alone" geniuses, working as well in experimental as theoretical physics. The Curies, Fermi, etc, should also belong in the list, which looks Anglo-German, quantum-mechanical, and XXth century biased to me.

Florent Calvayrac
Laboratoire de Physique de l'Etat Condense; Universite du Maine-Faculte des Sciences


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Physics World survey (not only the first 10 physicists) reveals a double bias. First toward modern times and second in favor of theoreticians. Further, while it is in order to make a rank-list after a poll, there is no need for that in an individual choice. Here are my top ten physicists who have contributed to physics the most:

Archimedes (great physicist, engineer, and mathematician), who laid the foundations of statics and hydrostatics.
Isaac Newton (great physicist and mathematician), who laid the foundations of dynamics and hydrodynamics, and the theory of gravitation.
Michael Faraday (arguably the greatest experimentalist of all time), who laid down the foundations (together with James Clerk Maxwell) of the physics of electromagnetism, the cornerstone of modern civilization.
James Clerk Maxwell, who by formulating the electromagnetic theory not only made a unification of two formally disparate fields, but introduced the notion of the physical field, probably the most important concept of modern physics.
Albert Einstein (arguably the greatest theoretical physicist of all time), who has revised at the most fundamental level Newton's concepts of space and time, his dynamics and theory of gravity.
Galileo Galilei (great physicist and astronomer), who laid the foundations of modern science, by introducing both mathematical and experimental methods into science and thus separated it definitely from scholasticism and metaphysics.
Ludwig Boltzmann (great theoretician and epistemologist), who has laid down foundations of thermodynamics, with Maxwell's electromagnetic theory, considered the crown of 19-century physics.
Ernest Rutherford, who has, by elucidating the structure of atomic systems, opened the door of the microworld, previously inaccessible to our experience.
Erwin Schroedinger (great theoretician and polymath), who has formulated his equation, with Newton's one the most important in the history of science and contributed decisively to the overall development of quantum mechanics, arguably the greatest theoretical achievement of science in general.
Paul Dirac (great theoretician), who laid down the foundations of relativistic quantum mechanics and quantum field theory, the latter being, as such, the most advanced achievement of physics of our time.
Petar Grujic
Belgrade, Serbia, Yugoslavia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While the names on the list are certainly among the outstanding physicists in history it seems strange that one name has been left out. A man who discovered not one, not two, but three universal laws, who was as responsible as Maxwell in unifying fields, who outgrew his accomplishments in physics and became a statesman, whose name is familiar among physicists from Seoul to Sao Paulo, who founded an institution which has benefited tens of thousands of the most under-privileged physicists, who kept open a channel to the West to physicists from behind the Iron Curtain when no one else would have them, certainly belongs on any list of ten outstanding physicists in history. I refer of course to Abdus Salam.

Munawar Karim, Professor
Department of Physics, St. John Fisher College


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it's an omission not to have Enrico Fermi on the list. He made fundamental contributions to both solid state and particle physics. Sometimes, it's hard to believe that the concepts of fermions and Fermi surfaces (as well as a host of others) are attributable to the same physicist. It seems to me that he could replace a number of those on the list: Schroedinger, Heisenberg, Dirac, perhaps even Feynman. The ancients are more sacrosanct, and it's hard to compare their work with that of the modern physicists anyway, so I'd leave Newton and Galileo on.

Bruce Schumm
University of California, Santa Cruz


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More on "Who were the top ten physicists?" Don Lichtenberg (April issue) made some good points but, like most others, he neglects experimentalists and underestimates the contributions of prequantum physicists. Was it easier to establish Coulomb's law or discover electricity (both circa 1790) than to observe the scattering of alpha rays (1913) or measure the speed of neutrons (˜1940)? Was it less significant for Laplace (also the inventor of cosmology) to formulate classical mechanics in terms of his equations than to derive a Laplacian formulation of quantum mechanics? What was more astounding: that light could be shown to produce very puzzling shadows indeed when passed through Young's slits, or that "matter waves" also interfered? Inexcusably also, one would get the impression that this most impressive achievement of classical physics, thermodynamics, was not an essential part of physics. Maybe the problem with thermodynamics is that, like quantum mechanics, it was a collective sort of achievement. Don Lichtenberg could not choose between Heisenberg, Schr"dinger and Dirac, similarly after hesitating between Carnot, Clausius, Gibbs, etc., I chose Boltzmann! Experimentalists I order chronologically because the available technologies of their respective times makes them uncomparable.

Here I go then (after much agonizing)

Top five theorists:

Newton
Einstein
Schroedinger
Maxwell
Boltzmann
Top five experimentalists:


Galileo
Coulomb
Young
Faraday
Rutherford
And how about old Archimedes? Wasn't he the first of them all?

Bernard Terreault
Universite du Quebec

and somebody even doubted feynman (the only yank i can see)'s inclusion....:roflmao3:


looks like yanks got doubly owned in this piece of writing mate.

[daddy]

You seem to have once again showed your utter lack of capability in understanding what was being said...

To better your example, it's more like we have two tribes of ancient humans. One group has just started to use tools- sticks, rocks, etc. while the other is still trying out to figure out how to do so, and therefore has a disadvantage because they must do everything with their hands or with less effective means than using those tools. At least until they figure them out. This example is probably simple enough for you, but you have a way of distorting reality.
mate what kind of a re&&&&&d example is that? maybe yankee "kids"(= goats' offsprings, literally speaking) learn it this way....reality is otherwise...like already mentioned several times in this thread, the yanks THEMSELVES didn't figure anything out, borrowed from others.....

so the better analogy will be that of primitive animals EN MASSE killing outnumbering a more intelligent human being.....for example i believe archimedes was killed by roman soldiers....."legionaries" or sth, r u telling me those foot soldiers were more intelligent than archimedes or whichever greek scientist was killed by a foot soldier (by romans or whoever)?


In this case you seem to fail to understand that the more advanced tribe is America, who has vastly superior technology in both military and industry (that it can even make itself) than from any other non Western or allied country, aside from Russia and a quickly advancing China. China isn't quite there yet, but will be soon.

i agree partially with you, yanks are and act like they are a tribe, no more.....at least we agree on something, cheers mate!
as for the rest of your blabbering, look@ the above argument about archimedes' death....now tell your "kids" why the roman foot soldier, legionary or whatever was more intelligent than archimedes..



It's not really an issue of numbers, unless of course you mean money, which the US has a lot of.
to be more precise, it has a lot of debt.....its main export nowadays is the greenback, the yankee dollar, its currency..

[qutoe]
I find it hilarious, and somewhat pathetic, that you argue about lack of intelligence in regards to a country that is one of the most technologically advanced in the world
[/quote]
that's because you must've been seen yankee presidents' speech, rally etc or a comedy from hollywood (basically any hollywood production) while reading my post.....however your finding this funny is NOT based on logic, it's just coincidence that either one of the two happened @ the same time as you reading this....."multi-tasking" doesn't suit everybody mate!


and that has the best college/universities in the world, especially when you see people from all over the world trying to get in to them. Of course there are great schools elsewhere, the UK has some very good ones, but on average the US has the best educational system for college level students.

apart from yankee propaganda outlets and zionists terrorist scourge controlled media, what source supports this outlandish "thesis"....?




You seem unwilling to let us know what country you live in, which leads me to believe that you're probably embarrassed about it.

oh dear what a pathetic attempt to attack a forumer personally, for his nationality or place of residence.....however (quoting post#27, my post)

your compatriot ragnarok has this to say


Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok from yankeeland
closing, about my intentions(you ask is it jealousy) I would like to quote one of the greatest thinkers.

Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race.
-Albert Einstein

To take pride in the actions of others is beyond stupidity it is dishonesty. A little ruse played by the infantile mind so that the ego may be satisfied. Be a good human before you are a good American, Persian, French... ect because when the chips finally fall that is all that matters

[Kiaar]

mate what kind of a re&&&&&d example is that? maybe yankee "kids"(= goats' offsprings, literally speaking) learn it this way....reality is otherwise...like already mentioned several times in this thread, the yanks THEMSELVES didn't figure anything out, borrowed from others.....


Americans have made many strives in science. But now we're back at page 1 from this thread, most of which you have ignored. Apparently taking a technology and making it so it works, or vastly improving it, no longer takes intelligence...? What technologies, dare I ask, have come from the Middle East in the last 300 years?


so the better analogy will be that of primitive animals EN MASSE killing outnumbering a more intelligent human being.....for example i believe archimedes was killed by roman soldiers....."legionaries" or sth, r u telling me those foot soldiers were more intelligent than archimedes or whichever greek scientist was killed by a foot soldier (by romans or whoever)?


So all the technological innovations of Greece and Rome (aqueducts, running water, major engineering feats) were accomplished by soldiers? Apparently no country can have both soldiers and scientists according to your logic. You still haven't come up with an explanation as to why the US is so advanced then and has improved upon or developed many technologies and scientific theories, especially in physics.


i agree partially with you, yanks are and act like they are a tribe, no more.....at least we agree on something, cheers mate!
as for the rest of your blabbering, look@ the above argument about archimedes' death....now tell your "kids" why the roman foot soldier, legionary or whatever was more intelligent than archimedes..


A tribe? Ok. You are saying where you live, people do not act like a community? You must live in a very sad place, because in most nations people work together. That is what a tribe is, by the way, just a community. Here's a definition for you. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tribe


to be more precise, it has a lot of debt.....its main export nowadays is the greenback, the yankee dollar, its currency..


It has a lot of debt, and yet it still has the most spending power of any country currently.



that's because you must've been seen yankee presidents' speech, rally etc or a comedy from hollywood (basically any hollywood production) while reading my post.....however your finding this funny is NOT based on logic, it's just coincidence that either one of the two happened @ the same time as you reading this....."multi-tasking" doesn't suit everybody mate!


It's just a coincidence that the US is one of the most technologically advanced country in the world? Interesting. I see you result to personal insults when you have nothing meaningful to say, very nice.


apart from yankee propaganda outlets and zionists terrorist scourge controlled media, what source supports this outlandish "thesis"....?


It's called common knowledge. There's a reason people travel from all over the world to attend school in the US, including many Iranians.


oh dear what a pathetic attempt to attack a forumer personally, for his nationality or place of residence.....however (quoting post#27, my post)

Well for someone who likes to bash other countries you seem awfully shy to say where you are from. I just find it funny.

[Ragnarok]

That is a fine list, but I don't agree with all of his selections. Honestly, you will find no consensus among physicists on who were the greatest 10, but that really says more about the discipline then the people. I really don't expect you to understand this since you are not a physicist. I personally have a heavy bias towards modern physics since it is far more complex and deep than early physics. I am not saying those people are more intelligent than the early physicists, but rather than the theories are built upon such a layer of knowledge that they are far more abstract and are really much harder to grasp than early physics.

About your arguments, or the lack thereof, you have failed to directly argue any of my points other than to call it yankee propaganda. This does not shock me since it is much easier to appeal to emotion than to logic. Understand, you cannot convince me of what you say because I have seen with my very eyes it to be false. Sooner could you convince me that dinosaurs roam Africa than what you are trying to argue, but that is the power of observing something with ones own eyes(or rather knowing people who are true geniuses, far beyond your capacity and probably mine).

[daddy]

Americans have made many strives in science. But now we're back at page 1 from this thread, most of which you have ignored. Apparently taking a technology and making it so it works, or vastly improving it, no longer takes intelligence...? What technologies, dare I ask, have come from the Middle East in the last 300 years?

repeating ad nauseam the same myth that's propaganda, circulated in yankee zionist marauding murderous terroristic imperialist scourge of media.....
however i haven't YET DESPITE 12 or so pages, and hundreds of years of yankee existence (well mostly murders, looting, pillaging, again murders, killing, etc bombing much like turks who're barbarians etc) yanks haven't done anything of significance, no notable intelligence.....why is that mate? it is easy to prove me wrong by pointing out a few (maybe 5, 7 or 11 for example) yanks born and bred in that list i provided or ANY other similar list (of course it has to be rid of yankee zionist terrorist imperialistic warmongering looting pillaging outrageous scourge of media influence)
.......if you can find yanks, let me know....



So all the technological innovations of Greece and Rome (aqueducts, running water, major engineering feats) were accomplished by soldiers? Apparently no country can have both soldiers and scientists according to your logic. You still haven't come up with an explanation as to why the US is so advanced then and has improved upon or developed many technologies and scientific theories, especially in physics.


mate is that all you could understand from that example? didn't i say yanks lack substance in their work, and 'grey matter' inside their head....or did i?




A tribe? Ok. You are saying where you live, people do not act like a community? You must live in a very sad place, because in most nations people work together. That is what a tribe is, by the way, just a community. Here's a definition for you. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tribe

mate for your convenience even from that very source they say
tribe

noun
1. a social division of (usually preliterate) people
can you tell me what that means?:laugh4:


It has a lot of debt, and yet it still has the most spending power of any country currently.

how abt immediate future? how abt debts cancelling the spending power? how much is/wll be left after debts are paid off?



It's just a coincidence that the US is one of the most technologically advanced country in the world? Interesting. I see you result to personal insults when you have nothing meaningful to say, very nice.

is it just a coincidence IF most of the industrialized world of TODAY including russia, china, most of asia, heck infact all of the world except subsaharan africa (folks no offence to anybody, really, this is just an example; not to be taken as derogatory to anybody) is reduced to rubble after a devastating war, and some subsahran african countries then EMERGE as teh new powerful countries around, because the rest have just been destroyed, will you still glorify let's say somalia or ethiopian "achievements".....or will you call those coincidences?


It's called common knowledge. There's a reason people travel from all over the world to attend school in the US, including many Iranians.

yes i agree however you don't agree with me. I said, it's common knowledge in yankeeland, thx to mass propaganda campaign by money grubbing zionist media....
hwever what proof is there? i show you some.....MOST of the top international students in higher education in yankeeland hail from quasi-third world countries. no offence to any of those folks, if they think it improves their lives why not?
but facts are facts, biggest senders of students to yankeeland is India, followed by china, korea, japan, etc etc (except for japan) none is a full fledged developed or advanced country, well korea is moving in that direction. but where are the pommies, the germans, the dutch, swiss, norwegians, swedes, italians, austrlalians etc etc IF people from ALLL OVER THE WORLD attend "school" i.e. tertiary education in yankeeland.....


Well for someone who likes to bash other countries you seem awfully
shy to say where you are from. I just find it funny.
well mate i think you've seen my reply already....like your compatriot ragnarok has said....
and if you find it funny, you must've been wathing a hollywood movie or comedy or bush talking walking etc

[daddy]

That is a fine list, but I don't agree with all of his selections. Honestly, you will find no consensus among physicists on who were the greatest 10, but that really says more about the discipline then the people. I really don't expect you to understand this since you are not a physicist. I personally have a heavy bias towards modern physics since it is far more complex and deep than early physics. I am not saying those people are more intelligent than the early physicists, but rather than the theories are built upon such a layer of knowledge that they are far more abstract and are really much harder to grasp than early physics.

mate looks like you're another brainwashed yankee lad, didn't i mention i myself don't agree with that list,
1. ten is too small a number, i 'd rather have 100 or so at least, names of great physicsts
2. there's going to be disagreements, because greatness is not easily measured
3. except for fanatic christian europeans especiall ywestern europeans none others are mentioned in such lists...or whoever has complied with their rules...

having said that, the source is a yankee one.....and even there you don't find yanks.....what does that tell you? :roflmao3:

as for your so called "modern" physics superior vs "ancient" (whenever that was) physics inferior debate, you can argue with yourself on that for a while...i'm not interested in that topic IN THIS THREAD, start a new thread for all that i care....


About your arguments, or the lack thereof, you have failed to directly argue any of my points other than to call it yankee propaganda. This does not shock me since it is much easier to appeal to emotion than to logic. Understand, you cannot convince me of what you say because I have seen with my very eyes it to be false. Sooner could you convince me that dinosaurs roam Africa than what you are trying to argue, but that is the power of observing something with ones own eyes(or rather knowing people who are true geniuses, far beyond your capacity and probably mine).

what you wrote is just as good as any propaganda from yankeeland, however i provided lists, many many forumers disagreed and NONE was able to support "yankee great minds or thinkers" title that i gave to this thread....
nor could you......but you did write a whole lot.....if the number of words used WERE a measure of competence, maybe yanks would've won this debate....that's a favourite yankee criterion for measuring competence really..


however reality may bite yanks hard in the posterior, as that forbid such infantile metrics for measurement of competence....lol

[Kiaar]

repeating ad nauseam the same myth that's propaganda, circulated in yankee zionist marauding murderous terroristic imperialist scourge of media.....
however i haven't YET DESPITE 12 or so pages, and hundreds of years of yankee existence (well mostly murders, looting, pillaging, again murders, killing, etc bombing much like turks who're barbarians etc) yanks haven't done anything of significance, no notable intelligence.....why is that mate? it is easy to prove me wrong by pointing out a few (maybe 5, 7 or 11 for example) yanks born and bred in that list i provided or ANY other similar list (of course it has to be rid of yankee zionist terrorist imperialistic warmongering looting pillaging outrageous scourge of media influence)
.......if you can find yanks, let me know....


I've taken the liberty of finding the answers you'd like. See my next reply for information. Quite literally dozens of American scientists and inventors with contributions to modern science.




mate is that all you could understand from that example? didn't i say yanks lack substance in their work, and 'grey matter' inside their head....or did i?


I'm not even sure what you're saying here because your use of words is extremely poor. I'm assuming English is your second language, I don't know, but this statement is odd to say the least.



mate for your convenience even from that very source they say

can you tell me what that means?:laugh4:


And yet the majority are references to a community of people who are similar to each other. That single definition among any others comes up from the common misconception that people get when they hear the word tribe, which was historically used to describe smaller groups of (usually) nomadic people, not really large groups.


how abt immediate future? how abt debts cancelling the spending power? how much is/wll be left after debts are paid off?


I'm not an economist, and I doubt you are either, so I don't know.


is it just a coincidence IF most of the industrialized world of TODAY including russia, china, most of asia, heck infact all of the world except subsaharan africa (folks no offence to anybody, really, this is just an example; not to be taken as derogatory to anybody) is reduced to rubble after a devastating war, and some subsahran african countries then EMERGE as teh new powerful countries around, because the rest have just been destroyed, will you still glorify let's say somalia or ethiopian "achievements".....or will you call those coincidences?


By WWII the US had equal or greater industrial capacity to most of Europe already. That's why before the Japanese attacked the US, the Admiral of the Japanese Navy warned against attacking the US because he knew they could never out produce us. That's also how the US produced 50,000+ tanks during the war and supplied both Russia and England with what would be (in todays currency) hundreds of billions in various forms of aid.

The wrecking of Europe allowed the US to step up, but the US was already highly industrialized before it happened.

Your example is of extremely poor quality because those African nations would need to be at least somewhat near a level of modern industry, which they are not, before your hypothetical situation represents the situation of the US right before and during WWII.


yes i agree however you don't agree with me. I said, it's common knowledge in yankeeland, thx to mass propaganda campaign by money grubbing zionist media....
hwever what proof is there? i show you some.....MOST of the top international students in higher education in yankeeland hail from quasi-third world countries. no offence to any of those folks, if they think it improves their lives why not?
but facts are facts, biggest senders of students to yankeeland is Indi