Syria scared of peace

[burster]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3427399,00.html

Syria scared of peace

Each time Israel shows willingness to cede Golan, Syrians shy away

Guy Bechor

Basher Assad's peace declarations publicized in the media over and over again this week may be misleading, and indeed they are designed to mislead.
An examination of Assad's speech before his parliament few days ago, and a monitoring of the Syrian arena, regretfully shows the opposite. The Syrian president, who was sworn in for a second term in office this week following a staged referendum, is doing all he can to flee any peace negotiations. Similar to the way his father fled when it became clear to him that the other side - then Ehud Barak and currently Ehud Olmert - may indeed cede the Golan Heights.

After all, the entire regime is premised on the animosity and conflict with Israel. If there is no conflict with Israel there will be no minority Alawite regime ruling Syria either.
The Syrian president took a sharp turn and is now hindering any chance of making progress with Israel. The conditions he is demanding make it impossible. Until his address this week, Syria stressed that contrary to the past it was setting no preconditions for engaging in talks with Israel. The Syrians argued that it was in fact Israel that was making such stipulations.
However, the moment the Syrians realized that Olmert could indeed cede the Golan Heights – or at least profess to do so – they went into a state of shock.

In his inauguration speech Assad announced the new conditions for engaging in talks:
• Prime Minister Olmert must transfer "written guarantees" in an official document, according to which Israel is prepared to hand over
to Syria all of the Golan Heights up to the borders of July 4th, 1967 without any dispute. Such a document can be public or covert, similar to the one (according to the Syrians) handed over by Yitzhak Rabin. Incidentally, it is high time to put an end to the so-called "Rabin deposit." Let's assume there was such a document, why then didn't they agree to it? Similar to a petty lawyer, Assad is asking for everything to be put in writing.

• At this stage a type of indirect mediation will begin between Israel and Syria by means of a third party, to be agreed upon by both sides. There is no apparatus that can determine who the third party would be and why it is necessary.
• Assuming that all issues are clarified, open and public negotiations will commence.

What is Assad really saying here? That he wants it all. Does he really think that either side would agree to the demands of the other side without actually engaging in talks? And what is he giving in exchange? "We have no faith in the Israelis," Assad said in his address. Does anyone in the Middle East have faith in him?

Assad's speech attests to Syria's existential dilemma. On the one hand, Syria is in need of some kind of process with Israel that would save it from an international tribunal regarding the Rafik Hariri assassination. On the other hand, peace with Israel would mark the end of the regime.

It is astonishing to see how each time an Israeli leader demonstrates a willingness to cede the Golan Heights the Syrians flee as fast as they can. Assad's new conditions are akin to evasion. When will we finally be able to read the true intentions of the Assad family and the Syrians?

[NEWUSER]

Israel is not peace minded, that is why they demand Syria sever ties with IRAN.. BS demands designed for Syrian rejection..

[Normal]

Israel is not peace minded, that is why they demand Syria sever ties with IRAN.. BS demands designed for Syrian rejection..

israel demand that syria will break its ties with iran for the fact that iran is calling for the destruction of israel.

why should israel give away the golan if syria won't break its ties?
syria has to do what's best to the people of syria and that is to open up to the west, to adopt human rights( so they'll stop cuting off children's hands when caught stealing) and to invest in the economy.

[NEWUSER]

israel demand that syria will break its ties with iran for the fact that iran is calling for the destruction of israel.

why should israel give away the golan if syria won't break its ties?
syria has to do what's best to the people of syria and that is to open up to the west, to adopt human rights( so they'll stop cuting off children's hands when caught stealing) and to invest in the economy.

More lies... The claim that IRAN or it's president called for the destruction of Israel and it's people been refuted enough times... Spare me your lack of education.

[Yoni45]

More lies... The claim that IRAN or it's president called for the destruction of Israel and it's people been refuted enough times... Spare me your lack of education.

"...regime occupying Jerusalem is to be wiped from the pages of history..."

The regime occupying Jerusalem happens to be Israel. Coincidence, I guess.

[NEWUSER]

"...regime occupying Jerusalem is to be wiped from the pages of history..."

The regime occupying Jerusalem happens to be Israel. Coincidence, I guess.

How many JEWS world wide reject state of ISRAEL and the Zionists? Coincidence, I guess.

Today must be, SPREAD BS, day... I missed the memo.

[Normal]

How many JEWS world wide reject state of ISRAEL and the Zionists? Coincidence, I guess.

Today must be, SPREAD BS, day... I missed the memo.

you mean the haredim, and few lefties which there is one word for them: rats! stupied people who are blind to the real situation and who is the real anemy.
anyway i won't go there to prove a point, i can ask you a similar question
how many palestinian work with the israeli shin bet? you know all those assasinations of terrorists are being done thanks to the tips they give the shin bet, maybe they believe in the zionist cause :biggrin1:

[NEWUSER]

you mean the haredim, and few lefties which there is one word for them: rats! stupied people who are blind to the real situation and who is the real anemy.
anyway i won't go there to prove a point, i can ask you a similar question
how many palestinian work with the israeli shin bet? you know all those assasinations of terrorists are being done thanks to the tips they give the shin bet, maybe they believe in the zionist cause :biggrin1:

lol... I got one word for you, EDUCATION..

Also, get a map and learn how to read SYRIA from SAUDI ARABIA... Hand cutting takes place in Saudi Arabia not SYRIA, and i would not expect someone as uneducated as you to know the difference..

Make sure you jump to another point in your next post, in a failed attempt to disguise how very little you know. :)

[Yoni45]

How many JEWS world wide reject state of ISRAEL and the Zionists? Coincidence, I guess.

Relatively few, but, relevance to Ahmadinejad calling for the destruction of Israel?

[Normal]

:)
no need to get mad, it is bad for you heart.
i have read about alot of cases of hand cutting in syria and iran if you think i'm wrong prove me:huh2:

never the less i find it interesting that what botherd you the most is the cutting hands part(my mistake obviously syria is very modern country with no pysical punishment and a chempion of human rights, my bad)

i would appreciate a more serious comment and not a childish reaction.

[Yoni45]

i have read about alot of cases of hand cutting in syria and iran if you think i'm wrong prove me:huh2:

Burden of proof is on you to show that it happens in Syria and Iran, not on him to show that it doesn't...

(It does seem to happen in Iran btw, not in Syria, however...)

[NEWUSER]

Relatively few, but, relevance to Ahmadinejad calling for the destruction of Israel?

He spoke about the government not the country, there's a difference.

There are thousands of Iranian Jews living in IRAN, who recently been offered money to move to ISRAEL and rejected it. How come these Jewish people are living safely in IRAN if the president of IRAN made such a claim? Think about it.

How about the Jewish people in the Arab/Muslims world, i presume you are aware they exist.

[Normal]

There are thousands of Iranian Jews living in IRAN, who recently been offered money to move to ISRAEL and rejected it. How come these Jewish people are living safely in IRAN if the president of IRAN made such a claim? Think about it.

How about the Jewish people in the Arab/Muslims world, i presume you are aware they exist.

of course they won't leave beacause they are being pressured to stay and they know that their property would venish the minute they go out.

they exist alright and alot of them live in fear from their neighbors...
and by the way achmadi can't just hurt the iranian jews, he's smart he won't do that, no now anyway:err2:

[Normal]

Burden of proof is on you to show that it happens in Syria and Iran, not on him to show that it doesn't...

(It does seem to happen in Iran btw, not in Syria, however...)

i have no such burden my friend, my main point wasn't the cutting part although i'm sure i read some where about it happening in syria.
the point is that syria is lacking human rights...

[NEWUSER]

of course they won't leave beacause they are being pressured to stay and they know that their property would venish the minute they go out.

they exist alright and alot of them live in fear from their neighbors...
and by the way achmadi can't just hurt the iranian jews, he's smart he won't do that, no now anyway:err2:

Jews lived in IRAN for over 3000 years, and still have synagogues in IRAN, that is no sign of pressure.

IRAN is against Zionism and not JEWS, and before you reply, i know the difference between Judaism and Zionism, just like I know the difference between what ISLAM teach and what uneducated fools like BIN LADEN and his supporters preach.

[abdou]

israel demand that syria will break its ties with iran for the fact that iran is calling for the destruction of israel.

why should israel give away the golan if syria won't break its ties?
syria has to do what's best to the people of syria and that is to open up to the west, to adopt human rights( so they'll stop cuting off children's hands when caught stealing) and to invest in the economy.

Israel is demanding too much, syria has the right to have ties to any country it wants, its an internal affair and non of israels business.

israel should give golan because its syria, though i do not expect that, obviously.

"so they'll stop cuting off children's hands when caught stealing"

LOL, i do not know alot about syria, but that is highly unlikely, israel (even though being opened towards the has one of the worst human rights records, does the palestinain refugees and people mean anything??).

Opening up to the west does not mean a country will change its attitude in dealing with human rights in any way, it can get worse of better.

[Yoni45]

He spoke about the government not the country, there's a difference.

Your point? He did still call for the destruction of Israel...

(which refers to the government...)

There are thousands of Iranian Jews living in IRAN, who recently been offered money to move to ISRAEL and rejected it. How come these Jewish people are living safely in IRAN if the president of IRAN made such a claim? Think about it.

How about the Jewish people in the Arab/Muslims world, i presume you are aware they exist.

Showing off that X number of Jews stayed in the country when numerous times that fled... well, it's hardly something to show off...

Although, i have to give it to Iran, they're definitely better than the rest of the middle east when it comes to Jews, outside of Israel... (unfortunately that kind of treatment doesn't extend to others, such as the Bahai...)

[NEWUSER]

Your point? He did still call for the destruction of Israel... (which refers to the government...)

Point is, he is talking about the Israeli government, not all Jews inside Israel. Also, Israeli government has political representation that advocates ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and Arabs, that's not an attitude adopted by people of Jewish faith, but certainly by Zionists.

Showing off that X number of Jews stayed in the country when numerous times that fled... well, it's hardly something to show off...

Although, i have to give it to Iran, they're definitely better than the rest of the middle east when it comes to Jews, outside of Israel... (unfortunately that kind of treatment doesn't extend to others, such as the Bahai...)

It's not about showing off anything but the fact people of Jewish faith live in IRAN... And i agree with you, Iran treated and continue to treat people of Jewish faith far better then most Arab countries.

As far as Israel needs for concerns: IRAN is not their problem, Saudi and the wahabi mentality is. But then again Israeli government is already making alliance with the wahabi's (Muslim extremists) against IRAN... Israel's priorities are way off. And USA is no different they talk about Muslim extremists and they are in bed with them.

[Yoni45]

Point is, he is talking about the Israeli government, not all Jews inside Israel.

When did anyone in this thread say that he was talking about killing all the Jews inside Israel...?

[Tallgeese]

The Syrian regime remains one that is difficult on all aspects. 'Peace' with Israel is something that goes against what the Syrian regime has been preaching for years. Since they speak of a 'dignified peace' now they are reluctant to state why/how this will occur. The US+Israel demand normalisation, the Syrian regime says 'land-for-peace' citing no more/no less, which really means 'peace' in the sense of 'no war' as it is.

That Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel remains contraversial but it's been described variously as a 'cold peace' or 'cold war' or even 'no peace/no war' where the US essentially is subsidising the cost of peace through supplying both militaries.

President Hafez Al-Assad could not capitalise on Sadat's fall from grace in the Arab world nor did Syria manage to establish itself as the true runner of Arab Nationalism due to its own often self-contradicting policies. From supporting the Christians in Lebanon (who in turn became anti-Syrian due to the Syrian demand for domination & control rather than cooperation) followed by their role in supporting Palestinian factions against each other. Syria has never been held to high acclaim by anybody (allies or enemies) & the Syrian regime continues to pursue a morally bankrupt policy based on paranoia & self-centrism.

[mango994]

I'm sorry to disappoint you Newuser, but the zionism-opposing jews are about... 1%? of the jewish population of the world. The rest either support or they just don't bother.
They make too much noise for their real size.

[Assad]

The Syrian regime remains one that is difficult on all aspects. 'Peace' with Israel is something that goes against what the Syrian regime has been preaching for years. Since they speak of a 'dignified peace' now they are reluctant to state why/how this will occur. The US+Israel demand normalisation, the Syrian regime says 'land-for-peace' citing no more/no less, which really means 'peace' in the sense of 'no war' as it is.

That Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel remains contraversial but it's been described variously as a 'cold peace' or 'cold war' or even 'no peace/no war' where the US essentially is subsidising the cost of peace through supplying both militaries.

President Hafez Al-Assad could not capitalise on Sadat's fall from grace in the Arab world nor did Syria manage to establish itself as the true runner of Arab Nationalism due to its own often self-contradicting policies. From supporting the Christians in Lebanon (who in turn became anti-Syrian due to the Syrian demand for domination & control rather than cooperation) followed by their role in supporting Palestinian factions against each other. Syria has never been held to high acclaim by anybody (allies or enemies) & the Syrian regime continues to pursue a morally bankrupt policy based on paranoia & self-centrism.



This is complete self centered self fulfilling Israeli mind games garabage - absolute lies - designed to justify thier continued occupation of The golan and other Arab Lands, and circumvent INTERNATIONAL LAW that demands the return of all occupied lands under the land for peace formuale that all parties have agreed upon, and declares all setttlement activities in occupiied terroteries as ILLEGAL - AND more importantly from a psychological point of view, paint themselves as good guys!! absolute hog wash ... i advise you to refrain from publishing garbage such as above, and work towards making real peace happen instead of trying to find all kinds of excuses for NOT making peace and returning occupied lands to their owners.

[Kermanshah1]

I'm sorry to disappoint you Newuser, but the zionism-opposing jews are about... 1%? of the jewish population of the world. The rest either support or they just don't bother.
They make too much noise for their real size.

You'd say that because you are an Israeli but there are about 16 million Jews and you are saying that only 160 thousand oppose Israel...

[Yoni45]

You'd say that because you are an Israeli but there are about 16 million Jews and you are saying that only 160 thousand oppose Israel...

Haha, that's actually pretty accurate...

[Kermanshah1]

Haha, that's actually pretty accurate...

I think it depends on what you call opposing Israel. Some want the state of Israel to be wiped off the map as bad as Ahmadinejad wants it, some think Israel has the right to excist but should however give back the west bank and gaza strip, some think the west bank and gaza strip shouldn't be given back and that they are part of Israel. Some are not against Israel but are against it when Israel does something bad ("it" is not a reference to Israel but to the bad thing Israel does) and some support Israel no matter what. And some just don't care.

[mango994]

I'm not talking about opposing Israel's policy, I'm talking about opposing its existence. And most of those who oppose, oppose because they think it's against the religion to have a jewish state, not because of the Palestinians' suffering or the arabs' ownership claiming of the land.

And I repeat, they THINK it's against the religion. Same as in the Islam and Christianity, the Jews have many opinions and different sects. There's no one truth. So those penguins in New York who go out with the "Judaism has nothing to do with Zionism" signs are damn fake and represent only their own sect, not the jewish world, as Israel's opposers love to believe.

[Kermanshah1]

I'm not talking about opposing Israel's policy, I'm talking about opposing its existence. And most of those who oppose, oppose because they think it's against the religion to have a jewish state, not because of the Palestinians' suffering or the arabs' ownership claiming of the land.

And I repeat, they THINK it's against the religion. Same as in the Islam and Christianity, the Jews have many opinions and different sects. There's no one truth. So those penguins in New York who go out with the "Judaism has nothing to do with Zionism" signs are damn fake and represent only their own sect, not the jewish world, as Israel's opposers love to believe.

But also some oppose because most left-wing people in the west are against Israel ans so there are left-wing jews wich don't like Israel either.

[mango994]

They don't oppose it's existence but it's policy. No sane jew in the world would want the only jewish state in the world to disappear.

[Kermanshah1]

They don't oppose it's existence but it's policy. No sane jew in the world would want the only jewish state in the world to disappear.

A lot of people also oppose it's excistance.

[Yoni45]

I think it depends on what you call opposing Israel. Some want the state of Israel to be wiped off the map as bad as Ahmadinejad wants it, some think Israel has the right to excist but should however give back the west bank and gaza strip, some think the west bank and gaza strip shouldn't be given back and that they are part of Israel. Some are not against Israel but are against it when Israel does something bad ("it" is not a reference to Israel but to the bad thing Israel does) and some support Israel no matter what. And some just don't care.

Well then you should define your claim first of who "is against Israel", and go from there... ^_^

(For example, I think Israel should return the WB and Gaza Strip [in time for a Palestinian state], but I'm by no means 'against Israel')

[Behrooz Boonabi]

They don't oppose it's existence but it's policy. No sane jew in the world would want the only jewish state in the world to disappear.

Only sane Jews wasn't it to disappear because it is against the Jewish religion.

[Kermanshah1]

Well then you should define your claim first of who "is against Israel", and go from there... ^_^

(For example, I think Israel should return the WB and Gaza Strip [in time for a Palestinian state], but I'm by no means 'against Israel')

I was saying it depends on what you call anti-Israeli

[mango994]

Only sane Jews wasn't it to disappear because it is against the Jewish religion.

****.
The bible never mentions such things. It's that some rabbis saw things as they like and forbid a jewish state.
These guys are not the jewish religion. They're people who think they're right because they're so extreme with religion.

[worldleader]

i'll go with those "some" rabbis though. israel dosn't deserve to exist

[Behrooz Boonabi]

****.
The bible never mentions such things. It's that some rabbis saw things as they like and forbid a jewish state.
These guys are not the jewish religion. They're people who think they're right because they're so extreme with religion.

They lay it out very clearly and prove it. They are Jewish no mater what you think of them. They can also hold a argument that israel isn't a Jewish state and nobody can argue with them.

[Bumble Bee]

****.
The bible never mentions such things. It's that some rabbis saw things as they like and forbid a jewish state.
These guys are not the jewish religion. They're people who think they're right because they're so extreme with religion.
Shut the hell up. The bible didn't forbid a jewish state. It said that the Jews would recieve a state AFTER the Messiah arrives, clearly meaning Israel is illegitimat.

[Kermanshah1]

Shut the hell up. The bible didn't forbid a jewish state. It said that the Jews would recieve a state AFTER the Messiah arrives, clearly meaning Israel is illegitimat.

Exactly. Mango, don't you believe in the Messiah? He is supposed to give you your state. The fact you went and made one yourselves means you don't believe in the Messiah...

[mango994]

Not all of the jews believe in Messiah, and those who believe mostly don't believe in the connection of a state but in the connection of doomsday.

Same as you muslims and christians are also divided to many sects with different beliefs.

Besides, the jews are not much religious since the last century, and the JEWISH state means Jewish in the connection of the jewish PEOPLE, the race, jews. Not the jewish religion.

Bottom line, find a better excuse and don't tell me to shut up, cuz you ain't that of a genius to say that.

[Yoni45]

Shut the hell up. The bible didn't forbid a jewish state. It said that the Jews would recieve a state AFTER the Messiah arrives, clearly meaning Israel is illegitimat.

Evidence? Link?

[StateMachine]

Ahmedinijad has called for regime change in Palestine. The zionist regime simply does not fulfill the requirement of being a just governemnt for all the residents of Palestine.

It seems obvious on its face that this government will have to go, one way or the other.

I also understand that most jews living in Palestine would emigrate the next day back to Europe and NYC if they had to live under a fair representative government of the whole people of that country.


But back to the original point of this thread. Isreal has never offered to return to its pre-67 border with Syria. The day Isreal offers the entire Golan back to Syria is the day Iran loses its sway over Syria and eventually Lebanon. The Isreali postion makes no sense unless they are scared of the cost of peace which is return of land.

It is almost comical because Isreal has no chance of ever realizing its historical dream of "Greater Isreal" that stretches from the Nile to the Euphrates. There will never be the mythical greater Isreal that zionists dream about. They are reduced to fighting to hold on to a few scraps of land that do nothing but make their own lives miserable along with the Palestinians in it.

[mango994]

It's not about "Greater Israel", it's about strategic depth and height advantage. Why do you think the Golan was conquered? Every stupid Syrian kid could go there and piss all over the Israeli north if he wanted to.

[double_o]

It is almost comical because Isreal has no chance of ever realizing its historical dream of "Greater Isreal" that stretches from the Nile to the Euphrates. There will never be the mythical greater Isreal that zionists dream about. They are reduced to fighting to hold on to a few scraps of land that do nothing but make their own lives miserable along with the Palestinians in it.
There was never such a dream.

[AL-EH]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3427399,00.html

Syria scared of peace

Each time Israel shows willingness to cede Golan, Syrians shy away

Guy Bechor

Basher Assad's peace declarations publicized in the media over and over again this week may be misleading, and indeed they are designed to mislead.
An examination of Assad's speech before his parliament few days ago, and a monitoring of the Syrian arena, regretfully shows the opposite. The Syrian president, who was sworn in for a second term in office this week following a staged referendum, is doing all he can to flee any peace negotiations. Similar to the way his father fled when it became clear to him that the other side - then Ehud Barak and currently Ehud Olmert - may indeed cede the Golan Heights.

After all, the entire regime is premised on the animosity and conflict with Israel. If there is no conflict with Israel there will be no minority Alawite regime ruling Syria either.
The Syrian president took a sharp turn and is now hindering any chance of making progress with Israel. The conditions he is demanding make it impossible. Until his address this week, Syria stressed that contrary to the past it was setting no preconditions for engaging in talks with Israel. The Syrians argued that it was in fact Israel that was making such stipulations.
However, the moment the Syrians realized that Olmert could indeed cede the Golan Heights – or at least profess to do so – they went into a state of shock.

In his inauguration speech Assad announced the new conditions for engaging in talks:
• Prime Minister Olmert must transfer "written guarantees" in an official document, according to which Israel is prepared to hand over
to Syria all of the Golan Heights up to the borders of July 4th, 1967 without any dispute. Such a document can be public or covert, similar to the one (according to the Syrians) handed over by Yitzhak Rabin. Incidentally, it is high time to put an end to the so-called "Rabin deposit." Let's assume there was such a document, why then didn't they agree to it? Similar to a petty lawyer, Assad is asking for everything to be put in writing.

• At this stage a type of indirect mediation will begin between Israel and Syria by means of a third party, to be agreed upon by both sides. There is no apparatus that can determine who the third party would be and why it is necessary.
• Assuming that all issues are clarified, open and public negotiations will commence.

What is Assad really saying here? That he wants it all. Does he really think that either side would agree to the demands of the other side without actually engaging in talks? And what is he giving in exchange? "We have no faith in the Israelis," Assad said in his address. Does anyone in the Middle East have faith in him?

Assad's speech attests to Syria's existential dilemma. On the one hand, Syria is in need of some kind of process with Israel that would save it from an international tribunal regarding the Rafik Hariri assassination. On the other hand, peace with Israel would mark the end of the regime.

It is astonishing to see how each time an Israeli leader demonstrates a willingness to cede the Golan Heights the Syrians flee as fast as they can. Assad's new conditions are akin to evasion. When will we finally be able to read the true intentions of the Assad family and the Syrians?

10 years of peace talks and who ended it? ISRAEL. khazahom alrab