All news/pictures and articles about IRAN IRAQ WAR [Archive]

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admin

09-02-2005, 06:13 PM

The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on September 22, 1980 and ended on August 20, 1988.

Unknown, est. 1,000,000-2,000,000; includes 100,000 Kurds killed by Iraqis

The USA backed IRAQ with Military, intelligence, economic aid.

With more than 100,000 Iranian victims of Saddam Hussein's Chemical and Biological weapons (supplied by the west) during the eight-year war

After the war IRAQ was in about $75Billion debt!

After the war, thousands of iraqi POW wanted to claim assylum in IRAN!

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Max Payne

09-03-2005, 12:25 PM

Great pictures! :cool:

Unfortunately a lot of wasted lives. Too bad there was no crystal ball to the present situation and that war may not have even started.

admin

09-03-2005, 01:27 PM

Great pictures! :cool:.

Thank you :)

Unfortunately a lot of wasted lives. Too bad there was no crystal ball to the present situation and that war may not have even started.

true :(

Max Payne

09-04-2005, 07:13 AM

s-300

09-06-2005, 01:24 PM

khak-2-sar

09-06-2005, 05:05 PM

The history and irony have their hands together the brothers how had killed each other now face the same treat and one of the reasons that there a preety good change if theres a war betwen usa and iran its only an air its because of iraq resistence mainly sunni .

If shia's feel threatened like the sunnies in iraq they would be just as bad. Its not your religion, its patriotsm. Not many countries / people stand by while foreign invaders invade their country, even americans couldn't stand the Brits, so they kicked them out by any ways necessary.

Stupid American

09-07-2005, 10:18 AM

Unfortunately, they are divided, weakened and vulnerable to US aggressions and conquest.

The US does not want conquest, it wants peace and stability and access to oil, like ANY industrialized nation.

saddam killed more arabs and muslims that the US EVER did. Maybe if Iran was strong enough to defeat Iraq and kill saddam, the US would not have had to go in and start this war to remove him.

saddam was a tyrant and the the arab/muslim world was powerless against him. It took the might of the US military to remove this evil dictator from your backyard. He will not be able to invade your countries from jail now.

I don't expect a thank you but, you are welcome :)

admin

09-07-2005, 11:11 AM

The US does not want conquest, it wants peace and stability and access to oil, like ANY industrialized nation.

saddam killed more arabs and muslims that the US EVER did. Maybe if Iran was strong enough to defeat Iraq and kill saddam, the US would not have had to go in and start this war to remove him.

saddam was a tyrant and the the arab/muslim world was powerless against him. It took the might of the US military to remove this evil dictator from your backyard. He will not be able to invade your countries from jail now.

I don't expect a thank you but, you are welcome :)

Saddam was not a threat to Iran after the iran iraq war. Its economy was in pieces, it had nothing, All it had was destroyed by the inspections from the un.

Noone will know if iran could have beat saddam if they never got ANY HELP from America and UK (during the 1980's iran iraq war). So thinking the American Invasion was good for iranian security is wrong. The only good it did is to make people of iraq better off than they were before. Before the invasion, Iran had the power to beat Iraq if it wanted to. I would even go further in saying so would saudi too probably.

Stupid American

09-08-2005, 07:36 AM

Saddam was not a threat to Iran after the iran iraq war. Its economy was in pieces, it had nothing, All it had was destroyed by the inspections from the un.

No but, he turned his wrath to his weaker southern neighbor. He was still strong enough to over run kuwait in a matter of days. In the end, saddam had no respect for any of his neighbors and given the chance, would have nuked them all to secure his power. It is a blessing from god that he has been put in jail and I for one anxiously await the day he is executed on global television.

Noone will know if iran could have beat saddam if they never got ANY HELP from America and UK (during the 1980's iran iraq war). So thinking the American Invasion was good for iranian security is wrong. The only good it did is to make people of iraq better off than they were before. Before the invasion, Iran had the power to beat Iraq if it wanted to. I would even go further in saying so would saudi too probably.

Well, I would hope that Iran embraces the new government of Iraq. Now that Iraq has a constitiution that explicitly states "no laws will be passed that are contrary to Islam", I would think it would be easier for these 2 great nation to find some common ground and form a strong bond. Likewise, I would hope that Iran and Saudi Arabia would also look to strengthen ties instead of size each other up for a fight.

The best possible course of action for the middle east is for all of the nations to form a union of mutual cooperation, similar to what the Europeans have. If the peoples of the middle east could develop strong international ties and police itself better, there would be no need for western military intervention, and that is something that WE ALL can agree is a good thing.

63DH8

09-23-2005, 05:03 PM

If the US had remained neutral back in the days of the Shah’s rule, they wouldn't of had to back Saddam against Iran. At that time, because the US had backed the Shah, the present Iran Government felt they had a case against the US. Because of this the US Government felt the region needed someone to keep Iran in check. This is the reason they backed Saddam. They knew he was a tyrant, but he was the only ruler who was powerful enough to keep Iran from spreading a religious rule over the region.

My personal opinion is the US, for that matter, any country, has no right to get involved in the politics of another country. That is the right that should be reserved for the citizens of that country. The fact of the matter is you can not force democracy on people. They need to want it bad enough to fight and possibly die for it.

63DH8

09-23-2005, 05:09 PM

Well, I would hope that Iran embraces the new government of Iraq. Now that Iraq has a constitiution that explicitly states "no laws will be passed that are contrary to Islam", I would think it would be easier for these 2 great nation to find some common ground and form a strong bond. Likewise, I would hope that Iran and Saudi Arabia would also look to strengthen ties instead of size each other up for a fight.

It looks like the Iraqi people are willing to fight and die for their new form of Government. I hope it is everything they expect and then some.

The best possible course of action for the middle east is for all of the nations to form a union of mutual cooperation, similar to what the Europeans have. If the peoples of the middle east could develop strong international ties and police itself better, there would be no need for western military intervention, and that is something that WE ALL can agree is a good thing.

Ironiclly, it was the West who broke the Arabic/Persian people into their present Countries. Some of these people still don't reconize borders. It's cool with those people and the countries who's borders they cross. Maybe they can get back together as one coalition.

Sgt.heckler

10-16-2005, 06:05 PM

digi-democracy

10-17-2005, 10:12 AM

so it was only the americasn that took part ? as usual to full of yourselves !!

I think what they were saying was that the USA stepped up to the plate first. The USA helped to bring all those nations together. He never said "only" the Americans. Obviously he is American and is giving a view from his country.

Tbagger

08-10-2006, 04:06 PM

Defcon, is there anyway to restore some of the photos on this thread?

ToTo

08-11-2006, 08:55 AM

only 1 picture is working

PersianPrince

08-11-2006, 01:00 PM

Can't see a thing..Pity

hizbollah

08-11-2006, 04:21 PM

http://www.sabokbalan.com/te/index.php?catId=104

http://www.sabokbalan.com/4images/data/thumbnails/104/007.jpg

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and more in link.

masterfx

08-11-2006, 04:28 PM

cant c a damn thing....

Arashi

08-11-2006, 04:30 PM

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Arashi

08-11-2006, 04:30 PM

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king0fpersia

09-07-2006, 07:26 PM

saddam just was a stuped animal dont call this animalany thing else its shame for human brothers he just was an animal

Deioces

10-04-2006, 01:02 AM

bangladesh

10-07-2006, 08:40 AM

i was disgushed when i heard this
MUSLIM attacking MUSLIm
that ***** Sadamm
both suffered a lot

USA wanted this to take revenge of SHAH and they also lost there power thats in IRAN so they supported Sadaam even know he is killing his own ppl

USA is not good that so good ppplll THINK

I HATE ThE MIDDLE EAST COUNTRIES

the leaders know the USA supported to Attack iran and also the ARAB Israeli wars

but for them the USA is everything

payam

10-07-2006, 08:48 AM

HATE ThE MIDDLE EAST COUNTRIES
hey man IRAN is on middle east too :D but yes the whole world helped stupid sadam againt us...(USA was the #1 of that)

Mehmet

10-07-2006, 03:11 PM

The US does not want conquest, it wants peace and stability and access to oil, like ANY industrialized nation.

saddam killed more arabs and muslims that the US EVER did. Maybe if Iran was strong enough to defeat Iraq and kill saddam, the US would not have had to go in and start this war to remove him.

saddam was a tyrant and the the arab/muslim world was powerless against him. It took the might of the US military to remove this evil dictator from your backyard. He will not be able to invade your countries from jail now.

I don't expect a thank you but, you are welcome :)

Sure, all countries want peace, stability "access to oil" like you said. But other countries don't go murdering thousands of innocent people in order to do so. America wants to tighten it's grip on the world, America wants to make sure that they are "safe" and will do anything to achieve that. I'm sorry but there is no way you can justify the actions of America. America thinks it rules the world, even now it is trying to take Irans rights for nuclear development!

ALIBABA1234

10-13-2006, 02:17 PM

to the comment about the ppl in the region should stick with each other is crazy its the less of two evils america or the dirtty arab's? well i think i rather stick down with a arab then try to talk to america that fund's the biggst terro group in the world ISRAEL! SO WHEN IT COMES down to it iran dosent like them arabs but sure as hell dosent want america and israel to be there so we have the situation now that we have no peace so america could have a reason to stay ! dont u ppl get it ! its about the oil!lol

javid khan

10-28-2006, 03:09 PM

saddam was the stuipidst mother****$er ever, he could have made Iraq such a nice country instead of spending all that money on military, imagine a world where Iran and Iraq were the most powerful in the middleast and helped anyone who was in need

Iran and Iraq had the potential to be great, Iran lost alot and when I see todays Iraq it just makes me feel so sad, i hope he burns in hellfire his sons faced a dogs death

mafiosso

10-30-2006, 04:04 AM

the west just want iran and iraq to fight and kill each other they know the only way to finish muslims they have tried this in the past and still doing this to us but we dont understand ..sooooooooon inshahllah we'll stand up for each other and dont kil our felow muslims brothers and sisters

oli

11-14-2006, 04:17 AM

Ardashir

11-14-2006, 05:32 AM

NWO's enemy is Islam, they no they will not back down to them and will fight to the death.

US got Iraq to attack and sold weapons through Israel to Iran mainly AiM-9X etc.

If Iraq had not of attacked Iran would it have been possible to merge both countries eventually?

Southern Iraq has been Irans property pretty much the whole new era history. (Except about a total of 500 years)

Northern Iraq is Kurd dominated. Iran has a deep influence there.

So, maybe. That was ONE OF the reasons of the war.
But of course, many theories didn't work then. Shi'a didn't/couldn't/wouldn't revolt in Iraq in favor of Iran.

oli

11-14-2006, 06:57 AM

I no USA caused that war between Iraq/Iran also with Iraq/Kuwait.

USA promised they wouldn't loose, Iraq failed, so they got UN to break it up.

1991 Gulf war, US told Iraq to start on Kuwait, US probably mostly used this to test new weapons etc.

Xerxes

11-14-2006, 01:28 PM

Southern Iraq has been Irans property pretty much the whole new era history. (Except about a total of 500 years)

Northern Iraq is Kurd dominated. Iran has a deep influence there.

So, maybe. That was ONE OF the reasons of the war.
But of course, many theories didn't work then. Shi'a didn't/couldn't/wouldn't revolt in Iraq in favor of Iran.

To win favor with the large shia population during the iran-iraq war, saddam had to make concessions to them. It is my understanding that 25% of the general officer ranks in the Saddam military were Shia.

Ardashir

11-14-2006, 02:40 PM

And they strongly believed in Pan-Arabism of course, while there were still a chance for it.

Now all those things are gone, and Iran rules.

I really don't know what would be the next step for Iran. What do you think?

Xerxes

11-14-2006, 11:23 PM

I hoping for reconcillation between Iran and USA ... let the wounds heal and let bygones be bygones.

zstar

12-25-2006, 07:07 AM

Saddam was a puppet of the U.S, If you read about his history he regularly visited the U.S embassy as he collaborated in Anti-Communist suppression activities, The U.S view at that time was "Saddam and the baath party are out agents".

But once the whole perostrokia era came into actions between the US and USSR then America no longer needed him and his furthermore his invasion of Kuwait meant they could no longer control him and he was threatening middle east oil supplies.

The reason why Bush invaded Iraq was that Saddam was a threat to the petrodollar and selling it out in exchange for Euro's instead. It seemed like Bush had a diabolical plan to justify invasion under the guise of the war on terrorism but now it has backfired on them.

someone___

01-10-2007, 05:41 PM

The best possible action would be for all Muslims to unite and stand firm against crusaders.

drakelei

01-12-2007, 08:46 PM

Great pics!
But with my eyes, i can't see the different of the both sides! They're use both AK47,M1 helmet and the uniform (camouflage) at the same!
Well, i knew with guy from the far like me (I'm Vietnamese) you are (Iraq and Iran mens) look familiar! But why you not note for pics?
For example, please view my topic at other forum about VietNam-China border war and conflict 1979-1991!
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=62511&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=v&start=0&sid=d699cbddd0da09793183a7fa57dab853
PLA: People Liberation Army (Chinese Army)
PVA: People Vietnam's Army (Vietnamese Army)
Best regard
Drakelei

vahidi04

01-25-2007, 09:08 PM

Iraq was given so many weapons and intelligence by the United States. For example Saddam was given the positions of all the Iranian military, tanks, equipment, etc. via satelite by the United States. But Iran still won even though there had just been a revolution and over 60% of the military had been displaced.

I hope saddam rots in hell.
Thank you to all those who gave their lives for IRAN may you rest in peace.

I would have surely went but I was just 2 when the war ended.

Power_Serj

01-25-2007, 09:19 PM

Tbagger

01-25-2007, 09:40 PM

It really sucks that Admin is MIA.

He should re-host all of his pictures and fix this thread (along with a few others).

kabiri

01-28-2007, 01:57 AM

I dont think that Muslims schould fihgt each other
The Jew make that happen so they cant see the truth

oli

01-28-2007, 05:26 AM

A lot of you don't realize that many (if not most) casualties are because the the Islamic revolution didn't want a peace treaty. Saddam offered it pretty somewhat quickly from the beggining, when he realized he was losing. The Islamists in Iran decided to continue the war.

Why the hell should they stop? If they had Saddam could have done it again.

It really sucks that Admin is MIA.

Seriously? In Iraq? If so thats bad :(

Also there will be no piece until either Iran changes it's oil policy or fights off America.

payam

01-29-2007, 02:50 AM

Best to say there will be no peace until usa and west change thier dirty policies

action_man

02-19-2007, 04:23 AM

Nah... Arabs And Persians Could Never Merg.... Not The People Anyway I Dont Know About The Goverments

oli

02-19-2007, 04:58 AM

Nah... Arabs And Persians Could Never Merg.... Not The People Anyway I Dont Know About The Goverments

Well there has been quite a big Jewish & Christian population in Iran for quite some time and they get along fine.

When you seperate:

Jew from Zionist

Christian from Bush

There is no problems.

oli

03-18-2007, 07:09 PM

jack11011

03-23-2007, 02:31 AM

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

spirit

03-28-2007, 03:15 PM

These are nice photos; I don’t want someone to misunderstand me there is nothing nice about war.

V.I.P

03-28-2007, 03:23 PM

saddam mother ****er he attack kuwait without reason.. and who helpet america one day will shanged :p like saddamoo kalb :S

Iranian Guards

04-13-2007, 01:09 PM

saddam mother ****er he attack kuwait without reason.. and who helpet america one day will shanged :p like saddamoo kalb :S:roflmao3:

Din

04-13-2007, 01:17 PM

saddam mother ****er he attack kuwait without reason.. and who helpet america one day will shanged :p like saddamoo kalb :S

Uh....huh. Saddam attacked Kuwait because he needed the control of the Oil, Kuwait was flooding the world market with the stuff, driving down prices. Not good for Saddam when he saw the Oil as the nation's saviour after the 80-88 Persian Gulf War.

Heck, he got a nudge and a wink from the American Foreign dept when he asked a senior aide directly about it.

mey_ming

04-13-2007, 10:43 PM

To all Islam..>!! jihad... allah huakbar...!! x3

PeterV

04-24-2007, 08:54 AM

The US does not want conquest, it wants peace and stability and access to oil, like ANY industrialized nation.

I don't expect a thank you but, you are welcome :)

Well that's just your opinion and looking at your name your not the brightest of your class....

Oriellien

04-24-2007, 09:33 PM

Well that's just your opinion and looking at your name your not the brightest of your class....

Give me one advantage of why the US would want conquest.

PeterV

04-25-2007, 12:41 AM

Give me one advantage of why the US would want conquest.

World domination

spirit

04-25-2007, 02:27 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukGL2K9Me4U
Iraqi republican guard in action. Just like on training, if they hit you, RUN like hell

Iranian Guards

04-28-2007, 05:00 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukGL2K9Me4U
Iraqi republican guard in action. Just like on training, if they hit you, RUN like hell:roflmao3: Revolutionary Guards ****ed the Republican Guards

spirit

04-28-2007, 03:58 PM

:roflmao3: Revolutionary Guards ****ed the Republican Guards

Yea
Can you translate what that reporter is saying???

Iranian Guards

04-29-2007, 02:42 AM

Yea
Can you translate what that reporter is saying??? that guy says we are all united and are blowing the tanks of the iraqis. he also says we blow per minute a tank

spirit

04-29-2007, 01:26 PM

that guy says we are all united and are blowing the tanks of the iraqis. he also says we blow per minute a tank

Ok, but can you tell me what they are saying after 30s, when they see Iraqi tanks, they get pretty excited… :laugh4:

Iranian Guards

04-29-2007, 01:29 PM

Ok, but can you tell me what they are saying after 30s, when they see Iraqi tanks, they get pretty excited… :laugh4: they say allah akbar which means god is great. and say agains eachother good job keep fighting them. and they praise eachother.

@@@@@!

06-28-2007, 07:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_lfqd3_SW8&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79cYXAE0PBA&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQwqrfdmsGM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnwwl1s5MEc&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re6OPMVaMwc&mode=related&search=

some of his generals fought with iran

@@@@@!

06-28-2007, 08:06 PM

iraqi supporter SA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_QaUPSiIAQ&NR=1

@@@@@!

06-28-2007, 08:27 PM

iraqi war movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PAOATPrP6k

@@@@@!

06-28-2007, 08:42 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLtUSxWxq-g&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu_aI8Auk_M&mode=related&search=

@@@@@!

06-28-2007, 09:11 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j1AcwQSSXo&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZrjSZZ8y3g&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OujdnxiMRgc&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNUZBPGGdxI&mode=related&search=

@@@@@!

06-29-2007, 11:52 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNzhTkQITvE&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXzimK0rwk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=3j1AcwQSSXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHrQtlDW--U&mode=related&search=

@@@@@!

06-30-2007, 12:07 AM

did iraq have any of these? notice it fires 2 missiles at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oSgHCXA7wk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c5XxcQ2K48&mode=related&search=

the length of the welded sim equals from the earth to the moon????

@@@@@!

07-01-2007, 07:28 PM

Osirak Attack

http://www.centralclubs.com/viewtopic.php?t=28974&sid=89dd84fdfeaeb93fc818718d75c0d4f6

@@@@@!

07-03-2007, 07:03 PM

got some old pictures

http://parvazidigar.persianblog.com/

http://parvazidigar.persianblog.com/1385_11_parvazidigar_archive.html

http://parvazidigar.persianblog.com/1385_10_parvazidigar_archive.html

many of the death and crippling and loosing hands and legs and back injuries are due to the garbage ejection seats sold to IIAF. this was a part of a secret dirty deal between Israel and US .
Killing the Experience.

http://parvazidigar.persianblog.com/1385_8_parvazidigar_archive.html

http://parvazidigar.persianblog.com/1385_6_parvazidigar_archive.html

and the list goes on ....

the same thing is going on with the hummve in Iraq ... what a bundoggle is that .... no respect for the troops...

javid khan

08-27-2007, 11:21 AM

Amir

08-27-2007, 11:32 AM

1980s

08-27-2007, 11:45 AM

I still dont understand why 2 muslim countrys fought for 8 yeas killing one another, they achieved nothing but securing themselves a place in hellfire muslim killing muslim is greatest crime in islam and is againt islam and a sin

Saddam was an Arab nationalist leader and it was he who invaded Iran. As for your other comments who are you to talk when your country descended into a civil war? Dont judge us over something when you dont even have a clear conscious or clean record yourself.

spirit

08-27-2007, 05:08 PM

I still dont understand why 2 muslim countrys fought for 8 yeas killing one another, they achieved nothing but securing themselves a place in hellfire muslim killing muslim is greatest crime in islam and is againt islam and a sin

OK we all know that Iraq invaded Iran.
Official reason was that Iranian soldiers (paramilitary is better word, but…), crossed Iraqi border… Something like that
But when you take in to account two things: 1. Iranian revolution and 2. USA&OIL
You see different picture…

javid khan

08-28-2007, 02:10 PM

Saddam was an Arab nationalist leader and it was he who invaded Iran. As for your other comments who are you to talk when your country descended into a civil war? Dont judge us over something when you dont even have a clear conscious or clean record yourself.

what civil war? prior to 1979 Pakistan was peaceful place no one ever heard of such things people used to go for picnics in NWFP countryside at that time , then when whole world started throwing thier crazy jihadis at the soviet union from pakistan what do you expect to see?

then when soviets was defeated in 1989 everyone run away and leave pakistan to clean up the mess how was we supposed to look after 5 million afghan refugees and all the mujahideen on our own, you dont know history

javid khan

08-28-2007, 02:12 PM

OK we all know that Iraq invaded Iran.
Official reason was that Iranian soldiers (paramilitary is better word, but…), crossed Iraqi border… Something like that
But when you take in to account two things: 1. Iranian revolution and 2. USA&OIL
You see different picture…

yeah and we all know soviets was number 1 supplier of arms to saddam, that time u supplied saddam against iran and now u are pretending u "freinds" of iran and making basher nuclear plant, you only love $$$

spirit

08-29-2007, 03:25 AM

yeah and we all know soviets was number 1 supplier of arms to saddam, that time u supplied saddam against iran and now u are pretending u "freinds" of iran and making basher nuclear plant, you only love $$$

I'm not Russian...:smile1:

1980s

08-29-2007, 11:26 AM

what civil war? prior to 1979 Pakistan was peaceful place no one ever heard of such things people used to go for picnics in NWFP countryside at that time , then when whole world started throwing thier crazy jihadis at the soviet union from pakistan what do you expect to see?

then when soviets was defeated in 1989 everyone run away and leave pakistan to clean up the mess how was we supposed to look after 5 million afghan refugees and all the mujahideen on our own, you dont know history

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was referring to the civil war that resulted in Bangladesh. The point of highlighting that to remind you that Muslims have clashed with Muslims in many different countries and also throughout history, it is not something unique to the Iran-Iraq war. So keep your daft comments about Iran to yourself.

javid khan

08-29-2007, 01:36 PM

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was referring to the civil war that resulted in Bangladesh. The point of highlighting that to remind you that Muslims have clashed with Muslims in many different countries and also throughout history, it is not something unique to the Iran-Iraq war. So keep your daft comments about Iran to yourself.

Bangladesh?? do you even know what happen in bangladeah, we fight indian in 1971 not bangladesh we are muslim brothers, indian used that as excuse to poke its nose into others business we was settling issue diplomatically

and pakistan never ever engaged in war with bangladeah like iran-iraq so you keep your comments to yourself when u dont even know history.

and you admitted it and say muslims have clashed before many times so how many times are u going to do it for you to realise that it is against islam, how dumb are you?

javid khan

08-29-2007, 01:38 PM

I'm not Russian...:smile1:

no but a russian supporter so its the same

Request 1

08-29-2007, 01:44 PM

This war was pointless. Also an embarassment to Islam. I know that Saddam was the agressor in this war...really shouldn't blame Iran. Really sad to hear of Muslims killing Muslims.

1980s

08-29-2007, 01:58 PM

Bangladesh?? do you even know what happen in bangladeah, we fight indian in 1971 not bangladesh we are muslim brothers, indian used that as excuse to poke its nose into others business we was settling issue diplomatically

and pakistan never ever engaged in war with bangladeah like iran-iraq so you keep your comments to yourself when u dont even know history.
True i dont know much about your part of the World but i do know that Bangladesh was the result of a civil war. Which brings us back to the point that you're nobody to come here and try to criticize Iran over a war Iraq declared on us when you belong to a country that fought a war against itself.

and you admitted it and say muslims have clashed before many times so how many times are u going to do it for you to realise that it is against islam, how dumb are you?
Every Iranian would support Iran going to war against any nation that seriously threatens the security and existence of Iran and its people, like Iran's war against Saddam for example.

spirit

08-29-2007, 02:40 PM

no but a russian supporter so its the same

OK first I’m Serb, not Russian, Serbia was newer part of SSSR…
Second, I did not give weapons to Iraq…
Who I support is my thing, am just looking at some history facts; every thing that happened is recorded by historians. You my friend, you have your own opinion about what happened in Iran-Iraq war (who was the winner, who supported who…), we all do!!!

javid khan

08-30-2007, 08:42 AM

OK first I’m Serb, not Russian, Serbia was newer part of SSSR…
Second, I did not give weapons to Iraq…
Who I support is my thing, am just looking at some history facts; every thing that happened is recorded by historians. You my friend, you have your own opinion about what happened in Iran-Iraq war (who was the winner, who supported who…), we all do!!!

yeah and history tells us that serbia was bombed back to the stone age by Nato and you lost your land and your people because u tried to exert your extremist views on others

everyone in europe knows serbians are trouble makers, opinions aside there is always a right and always a wrong

spirit

08-30-2007, 12:47 PM

yeah and history tells us that serbia was bombed back to the stone age by Nato and you lost your land and your people because u tried to exert your extremist views on others

We defended our own land; KLA attacked Serbian police first, killing one police man. War followed soon after…
America doesn’t love Serbs and Serbs don’t love America. They bombed us back to the Stone Age, I don’t think so, we lost 13 tanks, 8 APC, 27 artillery weapons for 78 days of bombing…
For 1998-2003 we lost 3000 men…
Iraq lost 4000 tanks and APC, 200.000 men in just 7 days of bombing…
So don’t talk about Stone Age!!!

everyone in europe knows serbians are trouble makers

Ill consider this as a compliment

KingoftheHill

08-31-2007, 03:15 AM

Guys, guys, gentlemen, please simmer down. This is one of the most prestigious threads on IDF, no need to pollute it with such foul talk.

Have a good night :smile1:

javid khan

08-31-2007, 08:49 AM

We defended our own land; KLA attacked Serbian police first, killing one police man. War followed soon after…
America doesn’t love Serbs and Serbs don’t love America. They bombed us back to the Stone Age, I don’t think so, we lost 13 tanks, 8 APC, 27 artillery weapons for 78 days of bombing…
For 1998-2003 we lost 3000 men…
Iraq lost 4000 tanks and APC, 200.000 men in just 7 days of bombing…
So don’t talk about Stone Age!!!

Ill consider this as a compliment

Iraq had 4th largest army in the world all serbs has was 13 tanks and 8 Apcs

spirit

09-01-2007, 07:40 AM

Iraq had 4th largest army in the world all serbs has was 13 tanks and 8 Apcs

Oh man…
Serbian army had some 1000 T-55 and 300 M-84 and T-72, 1000 APC and IFV...
Those where our losses during 78 days of bombing (we lost 13 tanks, 8 APC, 27 artillery weapons).
Iraq had 4th largest ARMORED FORCE in the world, but lost all that in 7 days…

Intelectual

09-01-2007, 04:03 PM

I still dont understand why 2 muslim countrys fought for 8 yeas killing one another, they achieved nothing but securing themselves a place in hellfire muslim killing muslim is greatest crime in islam and is againt islam and a sin

Muslim or not, killing people is bad regardless of their religion. Having said that, put the blame where it belongs, to the agressor which was Saddam and his regime, not the victim who only defended herself.

Anti-Jihad

09-13-2007, 05:30 PM

I'll expand. If the Arab nations knew of the imperialist threats that are occuring now, they may have become UNITED instead of DIVIDED. Unfortunately, they are divided, weakened and vulnerable to US aggressions and conquest.

Thankfully RUSSIA and CHINA will back up IRAN if the the USA gets too "uppitty".:)
Russia, China, lol, keep dreamin. Sure Iran and China have tries but these countries wouldnt thier own securities and economies simply to fight for iran.
Maybe supply weapons but manpower and all that, airpower, i dont think so.
Russia is a corrupt country and people fear thier economy can just collapse. China wont even risk invading taiwan because they know they would be risking thier growing economic success.
Dont feel proud that Iran has ties with russia and china that you out of no were confidently feel russia and china will fight for iran. they would rather watch the US fight iran and hope the US fails miserably than risk a bigger war were the US could possibly hit them and destroy thier airforces.
Also, they fear NATO strength so, they would think ten times before fighting for iran. but supplying iran, i think they would definatly do that.

Now as for the Iran Iraq war. whoever made this threat, you speak as though only the US suported and supplies iraq. But there were even more countries.
Soviet Union,United States, Britain,France,China,Canada,Brazil,Egypt,Germany,Canada,Ital y. These countries supported saddam, some gave him free weapons and moeny, others sold him weapons. Saudi Arabia also supported iraq invading iran because of fear of the islamic republic.
Now you talk asthough the US is the only badboy involved with helping iraq

abu sulayman

09-13-2007, 05:47 PM

I'm not sure where Javid Khan gets his information on Bangladesh.

Sheikh Mujibur Rahman won the election in 1970, but President Yahya Khan and Zulfikar Bhutto refused to allow him to take control of the government.
A guerilla war broke out, India took sides against West Pakistan, delivered a decisive defeat to the Pakistan Army, and East Pakistan became an independant country. This was in 1971.

As far as Serbia is concerned, it was the 4th largest exporter of weapons during the Cold War. The country produces the Galeb attack aircraft, Gazelle helicopters, and T-82 tanks.
The US would have had a very difficult time in a ground war, which is why they didn't send in ground troops.

Iraq being the 4th largest army means nothing. Like most Arab countries, they are only effective at attacking civilian populations. Totally ineffective against a competent military force.

China will not intervene militarily against the US. The Chinese economy and the US economy are too closely tied to each other. If one collapses, so does the other.

abu sulayman

09-13-2007, 05:54 PM

Iran didn't choose to make an enemy of the US.

It was the US that overthrew a democratic secular government, and imposed the tyrannical Shah on to the country.

Iran's oil revenues were then used to finance development of advanced fighter planes in the US, creating employment for thousands of engineers and technicians in the US, and creating mass unemployment in Iran.

The Iranians had the crazy idea that oil revenues should be used to create a comfortable middle class in Iran, rather than in the US.
The US, for obvious reasons, found this idea absurd. So they did not support the revolution, and worked to undermine it.

Hence, Saddam was encouraged to invade.

payam

09-13-2007, 06:02 PM

Bismillah

We never choosed to be the enemy of anyone.
as you see even we had our relations with soviet union.but the reason of all these enemity with usa is that after revolution americans-who losed thier intrests here- were trying to create influance in iran and take the control of things again,just like the past.They neever take iranian serious.just looking at them as some servants.
thier embassy was the center of all these activities-for supporting terrorist groups against iranian people and programming another coup d'etat in iran-
Thats why students conquered it and imam khomeini (Rah) called it second revolution.we always call that embassy:the home of espionage.
There are documents to prove what we say.but sadly american people still thinking that was just an embassy.
So As i said,american goverment never take iranian serious.they think iranian are still thouse servants of past.that's why they didn't and they dont stop thier movments against us.they did/are doing all they can/could.
So this is not iran who chosed enemity.this is usa.
We are proud to our own culture and country.we are not the puppet of anyone.
This was your country who support a terrorist with the name of sadam.and create a bastard group with the name of taliban.So never blame iran for nothing.

mohsenfootball

09-25-2007, 09:54 AM

what a bad war

kjfloyd119

10-16-2007, 01:34 AM

A possible of solving it is merge the Kurdish & Shia part of Iraq with Iran. Keep the rest of the area, Sunni, as Iraq, maybe smaller but they'd have their own government and have no reason to bother anyon else.

If I understand correctly, the majority of oil wealth lies in the Krdish and Shia areas of Iraq and the Sunni occupy Baghdad and central Iraq, which is the seat of gov. but has no natural resource. If Kurdish and Shia lands went to Iran, the USA would gain nothing from its puppet regime in Baghdad and would therefore be violently opposed. Iran could not realistically swallow these regions of Iraq as long as the USA maintains any kind of military presence in the middle east. So what's the solution? I think there is none. The three state solution won't work and I doubt the solidified state will hold as long as the U.S. keeps thier fingers in the money pit. Only an antiwestern revolution will bring Iraq's people into a united government, but then history repeats itself and the US or some other larger power will intervene.

Kermanshah1

10-16-2007, 05:49 AM

If I understand correctly, the majority of oil wealth lies in the Krdish and Shia areas of Iraq and the Sunni occupy Baghdad and central Iraq, which is the seat of gov. but has no natural resource. If Kurdish and Shia lands went to Iran, the USA would gain nothing from its puppet regime in Baghdad and would therefore be violently opposed. Iran could not realistically swallow these regions of Iraq as long as the USA maintains any kind of military presence in the middle east. So what's the solution? I think there is none. The three state solution won't work and I doubt the solidified state will hold as long as the U.S. keeps thier fingers in the money pit. Only an antiwestern revolution will bring Iraq's people into a united government, but then history repeats itself and the US or some other larger power will intervene.

Think you got somethings wrong in here. 64% are Shi'as (Shi'a Arabs), 17% are Kurds (Sunni Kurds) and 15% are Sunni's (Sunni Arabs), the current gouverment is a Shi'a-Kurish gouverment, the Sunni's (wich are the minority) are left out. Iraqs president Jalal Talebani is a Kurd, Iraqs prime minister al-Malaki is a Shi'a Arab.

Here is an ethnic mpa of Iraq so you see were the Sunnis, Kurds and Shi'a realy are:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Iraq_demography.jpg

And here is an ehtnic map of Bahgdad (wich as you see is primary Shi'a):
http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/maps/Baghdad_Ethnic_2006_sm.jpg

kjfloyd119

10-16-2007, 12:04 PM

Thanks for clearing that up and thanks for the great maps. I had no idea that the Sunni population was so small.

Kermanshah1

10-16-2007, 12:29 PM

Thanks for clearing that up and thanks for the great maps. I had no idea that the Sunni population was so small.

But keep in ming that the Kurds are also Sunnis.

Iranian Guards

10-16-2007, 12:31 PM

But keep in ming that the Kurds are also Sunnis. so, Kermanshah1 you are a sunni?

Kermanshah1

10-16-2007, 12:50 PM

so, Kermanshah1 you are a sunni?

No, there is a group of Kurds, the Kermanshahi Kurds (1.5 milion) in Iran, they are Shi'a. It is oftenly not even included in Kurdistan as most of us speak both Persian and Kurdish and many speak Persian as first language. If there will ever be a Kurdistan our part won't join but I doubt the other part would join either.

IR.IRAN

10-16-2007, 12:50 PM

But keep in ming that the Kurds are also Sunnis.

not all of them brother, but most yes.
i have kurdesh freinds, iraqi ones most of them sunni, iranian ones most of them shia :)

@@@@@!

10-28-2007, 09:39 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QQTafSGxfE

Iranian Guards

11-11-2007, 04:13 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En--k77KBmQ

Alex

11-16-2007, 05:23 PM

Iran is scheduled to publish the documents seized by Iranian forces during the 1980-88 war between Iran and Iraq under Saddam's rule.

Iran's Foundation of Safeguarding the Values of the Sacred Defense said on Thursday that the documents were seized in military operations during the war.

The documents reveal significant information on Iraq's incursion into Iran, said Brigadier General Mirfaisal Baqerzadeh, the head of the foundation.

The Iraq-Iran war is considered as one of the greatest human tragedies in the history of the Middle East. More than a million people were killed, wounded or displaced after Saddam's regime invaded Iran in 1980.

On several occasions, the Saddam regime used banned chemical weapons, provided by Western companies, against Iranian forces and civilians.
http://www.presstv.com/photo/20071115/torabi20071115192447953.jpg
Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, Baghdad, December 20, 1983

MT/HGH/RE
http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=31194&sectionid=351020101

whatever

01-02-2008, 11:11 PM

Whatever

bangladesh

01-03-2008, 08:17 AM

IRAN THE BEST

I SALUTE IRAN FOR THE BRAVE WAR THEY HAVE WON

BUT I AM DISGUSED WHAT OTHER NATIONS DID TO IRAN
EVEN ISLAMIC NATIONS

I READ THE ARTICLE AND THANKS FOR THE ARTICLE POST

IT IS NICE AND GOOD THAT IRAN WON WITHOUT ANY MAJOR WEAPON AND HELP FROM ANY1

BUT I WISH THAT IRAN SHIAS WILL NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH SUNNIS
well Saddam and Iraq army was Bad Muslims though

Iran gave a good kick back and i also saw some clips in youtube

Mahati

01-03-2008, 06:16 PM

That article was a very good read. I am always interested to see the other sides view and spin on these events. Iran vs. the world! Very noble and romantic.

Charpan

01-03-2008, 06:17 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En--k77KBmQ

do u know how fast they lost it ?

Amir

01-03-2008, 06:23 PM

do u know how fast they lost it ?

It was mentioned in the video (90 days)

BlueFalcon109

01-03-2008, 06:40 PM

the shooting down of iran air 655 was one of the most cowardly acts done against civilians and the fact that the crewmen received medals when they came home just boils my blood.

Charpan

01-03-2008, 06:45 PM

the shooting down of iran air 655 was one of the most cowardly acts done against civilians and the fact that the crewmen received medals when they came home just boils my blood.

it's just redneck politics ,pisses off anyone not in alabama, not that they did it on purpose to further piss off ppl (though targeting the airliner itself was very purposfullessnessly for sure , the whole f-14 , we didnt see , dang jesus was the most ridiculous crap they could come up with , only a texan would buy something like that)

a similar incident happened in japan with a sub and a fisher boat i guess and the crew were excused similarly

BlueFalcon109

01-03-2008, 07:31 PM

i hate the f-14 excuse, its flawed on so many levels.

bangladesh

01-03-2008, 09:38 PM

well you know americans are good in making excuses

Charpan

01-03-2008, 10:57 PM

well you know americans are good in making excuses

when i think about, i see it not as a natural tendancy to hypocricy but more a very basic and deep rooted discriminative behavior. american intolerance of non-american behaviors is undeniable. they're simply very much into the "us and them" thing.

Kermanshah1

01-04-2008, 04:18 AM

the shooting down of iran air 655 was one of the most cowardly acts done against civilians and the fact that the crewmen received medals when they came home just boils my blood.

You know where this reminds me of. When those Dutch soldiers recieved medals for bravery for Serbrenica!:frown3: Which bravery?

Charpan

01-04-2008, 10:11 AM

bravery to watch the whole thing perhaps

Mahati

01-04-2008, 01:20 PM

the shooting down of iran air 655 was one of the most cowardly acts done against civilians and the fact that the crewmen received medals when they came home just boils my blood.

I don't know, allowing Iranian children to run across minefields seems more barbaric to me. :wub2:

Jedd Corpse

01-04-2008, 01:24 PM

I don't know, allowing Iranian children to run across minefields seems more barbaric to me. :wub2:

He said Cowardly...

Mahati

01-04-2008, 01:38 PM

He said Cowardly...

Oops my bad. No I cannot say running across a minefield is cowardly. Stupid, but not cowardly.

fairplayall

01-07-2008, 05:15 AM

Oops my bad. No I cannot say running across a minefield is cowardly. Stupid, but not cowardly.

This shows you know next to nothing about why Iran used children to run minfields.

...they were not stupid. You are.

They gave their lives so that other fighting soldiers (who are trained can fight their enemies. Each has its own role in that war and if it had not been Iran with no resources and support would have lost that war.

They have no choice. Someone has to clear the way...who is best? Fighting soldiers or children who cannot fight ?

No you are stupid not those children who gave their lives for their country.

Alex

01-07-2008, 09:18 AM

i have talked to iran-iraq war veterans and they say this children runnning on mines is a big lie and isn't true at all.

Iranian Guards

01-07-2008, 09:19 AM

i have talked to iran-iraq war veterans and they say this children runnning on mines is a big lie and isn't true at all. that is made up by western propaganda machine

Amir

01-07-2008, 01:03 PM

Oops my bad. No I cannot say running across a minefield is cowardly. Stupid, but not cowardly.

What would be more honourable than this? Stupid is people who have the same mentality as you. We believe our martyrs are in heaven and disrespecting them in an IRANIAN FORUM cannot be tolerated.

Kermanshah1

01-07-2008, 01:04 PM

What would be more honourable than this? Stupid is people who have the same mentality as you. We believe our martyrs are in heaven and disrespecting them in an IRANIAN FORUM cannot be tolerated.

I was surprised to see Mahati hasn't been banned yet...

Mahati

01-07-2008, 01:51 PM

I was surprised to see Mahati hasn't been banned yet...

I have not been banned because I did not break any rules. I also did not attack any other members, yet I have been called stupid by a member and a moderator directly. Now who is breaking the rules?

You say I disrespected Iran? I said that Iranians are not cowards, I believe what they were doing was stupid, not cowardly. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. Shame on you for attacking me personally because you do not like my opinion.

You have to try harder to ban me for something that is actually against the forum rules.

Mahati

01-07-2008, 01:52 PM

i have talked to iran-iraq war veterans and they say this children runnning on mines is a big lie and isn't true at all.

Show me a source that says Iranian children did not run through minefields? Even Fairplayall believes that was so. never in my two years here has any Iranian refuted that claim until now.

Mahati

01-07-2008, 01:55 PM

This shows you know next to nothing about why Iran used children to run minfields.

...they were not stupid. You are.

They gave their lives so that other fighting soldiers (who are trained can fight their enemies. Each has its own role in that war and if it had not been Iran with no resources and support would have lost that war.

They have no choice. Someone has to clear the way...who is best? Fighting soldiers or children who cannot fight ?

No you are stupid not those children who gave their lives for their country.

I will have to save this post. This is one of the most illogical and backward thinking posts I have seen in a long time. The fact that you said children should die before soldiers makes no sense to me.

Abbas

01-07-2008, 01:59 PM

Mahati, you have crossed the line, instead of being resentful and regretting your comment, you a jovial, and attacking the warning given.

You should learn to be quiet when you make such a stupid comment and insult people, instead you get your back up and walk tall.

You are just plain lucky ameer was good enough just to warn you, my decision was to give stricter outcome.

Amir

01-07-2008, 02:01 PM

I believe what they were doing was stupid, not cowardly. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

Constructive criticism is encouraged but calling them or their action stupid cannot be tolerated in an Iranian forum.

Abbas

01-07-2008, 02:03 PM

Thanks ameer.

Case closed.

Blue Bloater

01-07-2008, 02:12 PM

Show me a source that says Iranian children did not run through minefields? Even Fairplayall believes that was so. never in my two years here has any Iranian refuted that claim until now.

Show us the sources that prove children were running through minefields. If I recall correctly from earlier articles i've read, the source of these allegations were one or two western journalists during the war giving this gruesome picture that kids were somehow chained and forced to walk through minefields. I have never heard this happening.

I've asked parents and other family members about this and they state it simply did not happen. The youngest recruited were 14-15 years old and they volunteered to detonate bombs with the little experience and equipment they had.

I'll find the articles that refuted all this.

Blue Bloater

01-07-2008, 02:21 PM

Mahati needs to look at the following photos and point out how many 'children' he sees;

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=24250

Mahati

01-07-2008, 02:50 PM

Constructive criticism is encouraged but calling them or their action stupid cannot be tolerated in an Iranian forum.

I apologize if you all feel I disrespected the Iranian martyrs, for that was not my intention. I said they were not cowardly. So how about instead of saying what they did was stupid, how about it was unwise? I was not calling them stupid, but the actions they took.

Now I am going to hold you moderators to the fire in the future if you press me over this issue. I have not attacked anyone nor broken any rules. Shia Excellence is salivating to find an excuse to ban me because he does not agree with what I say, not that what I say is actually breaking any rules.

I said one word, "stupid," which has caused an uproar, yet I have been called worst and attacked more times than anybody and it is allowed. I have been called all the worst names imagineable and my culture, my Nation, and my beliefs insulted on a daily basis, and that is allowed. Dare I say anything about Iran is stupid and I start to get warned. I have been here two years, I know the rules and the only thing I have crossed is peoples pride when I challenge them to look at something from a different perspective.

So I reiterate MY OPINION in that Iranians are not cowards at all. However I do not agree with allowing children to run across a minefield to clear the way for Iranian soldiers. Is that a bannable offense?

Don't worry Shia, one day I may get emotional and slip up and give you your reason to ban me that you have been looking for. Banning someone is always the easier to shut people up rather than debate the merit of the topic, especially if I have not broken any rules.

Mahati

01-07-2008, 02:58 PM

Show us the sources that prove children were running through minefields. If I recall correctly from earlier articles i've read, the source of these allegations were one or two western journalists during the war giving this gruesome picture that kids were somehow chained and forced to walk through minefields. I have never heard this happening.

I've asked parents and other family members about this and they state it simply did not happen. The youngest recruited were 14-15 years old and they volunteered to detonate bombs with the little experience and equipment they had.

I'll find the articles that refuted all this.

The first time I have ever heard of this was not from Western media. It was when I came to these boards and Iranians were bragging about how they defeated the Iraqis. I learned from people on this board just what Irans resolve was and that even children were willing to die for their country and do their part to run across minefields. So don't go Western bashing about this point.

Mahati

01-07-2008, 03:00 PM

Mahati needs to look at the following photos and point out how many 'children' he sees;

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=24250

Will we have to go over the definition of children? In my country a minor is someone under the age of 17. So if they were 14 and 15 year olds we consider them children.

Abbas

01-07-2008, 03:07 PM

I apologize if you all feel I disrespected the Iranian martyrs, for that was not my intention. I said they were not cowardly. So how about instead of saying what they did was stupid, how about it was unwise? I was not calling them stupid, but the actions they took.

Now I am going to hold you moderators to the fire in the future if you press me over this issue. I have not attacked anyone nor broken any rules. Shia Excellence is salivating to find an excuse to ban me because he does not agree with what I say, not that what I say is actually breaking any rules.

I said one word, "stupid," which has caused an uproar, yet I have been called worst and attacked more times than anybody and it is allowed. I have been called all the worst names imagineable and my culture, my Nation, and my beliefs insulted on a daily basis, and that is allowed. Dare I say anything about Iran is stupid and I start to get warned. I have been here two years, I know the rules and the only thing I have crossed is peoples pride when I challenge them to look at something from a different perspective.

So I reiterate MY OPINION in that Iranians are not cowards at all. However I do not agree with allowing children to run across a minefield to clear the way for Iranian soldiers. Is that a bannable offense?

Don't worry Shia, one day I may get emotional and slip up and give you your reason to ban me that you have been looking for. Banning someone is always the easier to shut people up rather than debate the merit of the topic, especially if I have not broken any rules.

Mahati,

You say Im 'salivating' to ban you? mate come on, I have more things in my life to worry about before banning you.

Infact, I have many times said to ameer (ask him) that I like your input, and you generally word things well, unlike some of the members who just flame. (u create a balance)

If I wanted to ban you, I can, its easy, Infact ill show you.

Im just about to drive to work, and ill unban you when I get to work.

Its not hard, and im not salivating or making it the be all and end all of my life. here comes the shortest ban in IDF's history, and only because you believe I want to do it sooooo badly.

:)

see you in 30 mins

Blue Bloater

01-07-2008, 03:32 PM

Will we have to go over the definition of children? In my country a minor is someone under the age of 17. So if they were 14 and 15 year olds we consider them children.

Well, that's more due to legal and social reasons than actual level of maturity. The point is, these Iranian 'children' volunteered during a time of self-defense. They are at an age were they were completely aware of the risks they were taking. This is far cry from the Iranian government allowing children at an certain age were they don't even understand the concept of war to go through minefields. That is just ridiculous, and has been used to demonize Iran as a culture of death and suicide. The clerics may be radical, but they aren't twisted.

The way I understood from my mothers uncle who came back from the frontlines is that the scenes were full of eagerness and enthusiasm. People were pushing and shoving to be the first to volunteer to run across the battlefield. The youngest were probably 14-15, but there were VERY few. Most of them were 18-22 whom were inexperienced fighters. So they ran across in human waves, and sometimes the battlefield contained mines and sometimes they didn't. That's really it. No kids were forced to go through it.

Blue Bloater

01-07-2008, 03:32 PM

Mahati,

You say Im 'salivating' to ban you? mate come on, I have more things in my life to worry about before banning you.

Infact, I have many times said to ameer (ask him) that I like your input, and you generally word things well, unlike some of the members who just flame. (u create a balance)

If I wanted to ban you, I can, its easy, Infact ill show you.

Im just about to drive to work, and ill unban you when I get to work.

Its not hard, and im not salivating or making it the be all and end all of my life. here comes the shortest ban in IDF's history, and only because you believe I want to do it sooooo badly.

:)

see you in 30 mins

:roflmao3:

Did you ban him for 30 minutes?

Abbas

01-07-2008, 04:03 PM

There you go, it was less than an hour.

And I can now get on with my life as I have achieved my greatest dream!

Mahati

01-07-2008, 04:54 PM

There you go, it was less than an hour.

And I can now get on with my life as I have achieved my greatest dream!

Are my 30 minutes up now? See Shia you have ruined my perfect record of not being banned. :roflmao3:

Abbas

01-07-2008, 05:00 PM

Are my 30 minutes up now? See Shia you have ruined my perfect record of not being banned. :roflmao3:

I did it in such a way, that it hasnt been recorded!

I can do ANYTHING!

lBlackWaterl

01-11-2008, 02:49 PM

I did it in such a way, that it hasnt been recorded!
I can do ANYTHING!

Shia, You couldnt do the same for a brother like me?

Alex

01-12-2008, 08:07 PM

Alex

01-12-2008, 08:08 PM

NawhaKhan singing famous karbala karbala song

http://irannegah.com/Video.aspx?id=308

Alex

01-12-2008, 08:09 PM

more than 100 videoss of IRAN-IRAQ war

http://irannegah.com/video_browse.aspx?category=2

Abbas

01-12-2008, 08:31 PM

Great triple post alex.

Amir

01-12-2008, 09:06 PM

Ahangaran singing famous karbala karbala song

http://irannegah.com/Video.aspx?id=308

good posts specially the young boy but that NawhaKhan is not Ahangaran.

IR.IRAN

01-13-2008, 06:53 AM

more than 100 videoss of IRAN-IRAQ war

http://irannegah.com/video_browse.aspx?category=2

great post brother, also iv got alot of morteza avini's clips (on my comp) of the war (with him describing everything) il post soon inshallah

Mahati

01-14-2008, 01:12 PM

Very interesting clip showing young an Iranian boy begging to get onboard the bus to volunteer to fight in the Iran-Iraqwar. It is often said that these children were brainwashed and "forced" to join the war. But in this video you can clearly see this child begging and being told to go to school instead. It is also hard to argue that such a spirit and motivation to join the war was imposed. In a war atmosphere and environment where one's nation is invaded, the spirit of brotherhood and selflessness clearly emerged, even amongst our youth. I honor all the brave soldiers of Iran which fought against the western tool Saddam in the 8 year war. Anyhow, check out the clip:

http://irannegah.com/Video.aspx?id=417

I admire ones love of Nation and devotion to defend it. That has never been my contention with Iranians. A child only knows what it is taught. All of us have been pre-conditioned into what we believe, until the age of awareness allows us to question those preconceptions. Call it brainwashing or not children should not be on the battlefield no matter what. As I said earlier, different cultures have different beliefs as far as what is a child or not. In America that is 18 and over. Anything under 18 is a child. So if Iran has 14 and 15 year old soldiers to us they are children.

"Up to a point a man's life is shaped by environment, heredity, and movements and changes in the world about him. Then there comes a time when it lies within his grasp to shape the clay of his life into the sort of thing he wishes to be. Only the weak blame parents, their race, their times, lack of good fortune, or the quirks of fate. Everyone has it within his power to say, "This I am today; that I will be tomorrow." - Louise L' Amour

Iranian Guards

01-14-2008, 01:20 PM

@@@@@!

01-22-2008, 09:05 PM

امروز سالگرد شهادت سرلشكر ستاري فرمانده نيروي هوايي ارتش و تعدادي از همقطارانش است. به همين مناسبت سردار داوود غياثي*راد،معاون تبليغات و روابط عمومي بنياد حفظ آثار و نشر ارز*شهاي دفاع مقدس مطلبي دراختيار سرويس «فرهنگ وحماسه» خبرگزاري دانشجويان ايران ايسنا قرار داده است كه در ذيل مي*آيد. اين مطلب شامل خاطرات چند نفر از شهيد ستاري است.

عمليات آزادسازي خرمشهر، دشمن در غرب اهواز، طلائيه و كوشك نيروهايش را مستقر كرده بود و قصد پيش*روي به طرف خرمشهر را داشت.

سرگرد ذوالفقاري و توانگريان با دو فروند هواپيماي فانتوم مأمور بمباران ستون نظامي دشمن در جاده طلائيه و كوشك شدند.

بعد از عمليات در راه برگشت هواپيماي ذوالفقاري در آتش پدافند دشمن*گير افتاد و سقوط كرد.

توانگريان كه جلوتر بود توانست كاروان را رد كند كه متوجه شد هواپيمايي با فاصله خيلي كم تعقيبش مي*كند. فاصله كم بود و سرعت زياد، امكان بررسي هواپيماي پشت سر نبود. با رادار دزفول تماس گرفت، چيزي نمي*دانستند فاصله هواپيما هر لحظه با او كم*تر مي*شد. اشهدش را خواند. حتما الآن با مسلسل او را مي*زد. در فكر راه فرار بود كه صداي ستاري در راديو هواپيما پيچيد: اكبرجان نگران نباش! هواپيماي تعقيب*كننده، "اف.14" خودي است دنبالت فرستادم تا كسي دنبالت نكند.

چيزي از جنگ نگذشته بود. تازه از سفر پاكستان برگشته بود. كتابي را داد دستم: "فرمانده نيروي هوايي پاكستان اين كتاب را به من هديه كرد و با غرور گفت: نيروي هوايي كشور ما در طول هفده روز جنگ با هندوستان اين عمليات را انجام داده است."

نگاه ستاري ميخ شده بود به قاب عكس شهيد بابايي: "مي*خواهم بنويسي خلبانان ما چه حماسه*ها آفريدند! چه*طور از كنار مرز سوريه پايگاه "H3" عراق را در سه نقطه در مرز اردن بمباران كردند؛ چه*طور سرزمين*هاي اشغالي را پس گرفتند و نيروهاي رزمي دشمن را با بمباران*هاي متمركز زمين*گير كردند.

جنگ تمام شد. ولي از رشادت*ها و دلاوري*هاي خلبانان ما كم گفته شده است. تاريخ چه*طور قضاوت مي*كند؟ فردا به فرزندان شهدا بگوييم پدرانشان با چه هدفي رفتند و چه*طور شهيد شدند؟

ما مسؤوليم. امروز بايد فرهنگ جبهه و جنگ را زنده نگه* داريم. از همان روز يك گروه تحقيقاتي تشكيل داديم و يك مجموعه 6 جلدي با نام "پاكبازان عرصه عشق" تهيه كرديم. جلد اولش با همت تيمسار ستاري تحت عنوان خاطرات خلبانان چاپ شد.

من خلبان "بونانزا" او بودم. وقتي اشتياقش را ديدم. قرار گذاشتيم كلاس پرواز داشته باشيم. هنوز در آموزش كلاس*هاي زميني بوديم كه ديدم خيلي از مسايل را قبل از گفتن من مي*داند. فهميدم چند تا آموزش فيلم پرواز گرفته و شب*ها در دفتر كارش نگاه مي*كند. بعد از معاينات فني، پرواز را شروع كرديم. روزهاي تعطيل تمرين مي*كرديم. تا نوروز دوبار پرواز آموزشي داشتيم. در تعطيلات عيد هر روز حدود دو ساعت پرواز مي*كرديم. تا روز سوم فروردين 7 بار پرواز آموزشي انجام داديم.

از منطقه كوشك نصرت برمي*گشتيم به فرودگاه كه رسيديم چند بار "Touch & go" را خوب و سريع انجام داد.

گفتم: تيمسار! اين*بار كه مي*نشينيد تا انتهاي باند برويد و ديگر بلند نشويد.

انتهاي باند كه رسيديم به افسر كاروان گفتم: هواپيما سلوبند مي*شود. تيمسار هواپيما را برد ابتداي باند، پياده شدم، دست دادم و در را بستم. هواپيما را بلند كرد. دور ترافيك را خوب انجام داد و با يك فرود عالي هواپيما را نشاند روي باند.

حالا بچه*ها با سطل آب منتظر بودند. جرأت مي*خواست خيس*كردن جناب تيمسار اما تيمسار حتا وقتي خيس شد محجوب بود.

تيمسار خواسته بود رنگ استتار هواپيماهاي رهگير "اف.14" را كه خاكي است با توجه به مأموريت هوا به هوا، تغيير دهيم.

چند ماكت هواپيما را رنگ استتار زديم تا رنگ مورد نظرشان را انتخاب كنند.

بعد از چند روز، سراغ نتيجه را كه گرفتم، گفتند: در نور معمولي اتاق نمي*شود به نتيجه مطلوب رسيد. آن*ها را بردم خانه. در ساعات مختلف روز و شرايط جوي متفاوت روي پشت*بام رنگ*ها را بررسي مي*كنم.

نتيجه اين بررسي*ها، رنگي بود كه كم*ترين انعكاس نور را داشت و روز آب و آسمان به راحتي قابل ديدن نبود.

فرمانده نيروي هوايي پاكستان ژنرال حكيم*الله به نخست*وزير بي*نظير بوتو گفت:فرماندهان نيروي هوايي زيادي را ملاقات كرده*ام ولي تا اين لحظه فرماندهي را به دانايي، دانشمندي و باهوش تيمسار ستاري نديده*ام كه در مسايل غير از تخصص خود هم تا اين حد تبحر داشته باشند.

براي شركت در مراسم سال روز استقلال پاكستان رفته بوديم. قرار بود از مراكز نظامي آن*جا هم بازديد كنيم. رفتيم به مركز سيستم ارتباطات راداري. اين سيستم را آمريكا با بيش از سه ميليارد دلار برايشان راه*اندازي كرده بود؛ سيستم اين*طور بود كه اطلاعات همه رادارهاي موجود در كشور در يك اتاق اصلي دريافت مي*شد.

انگار پاكستان مي*خواست مراكز نظامي مجهزش را به رخ ما بكشد. ستاري چند سؤال فني درباره سيستم پرسيد، فرمانده نيروي هوايي پاسكتان در پاسخ واماند و از فرمانده ايستگاه خواست جواب تيمسار را بدهد. او هم در برابر سؤال*هاي ستاري بي*جواب ماند. مهندسين فني هم همين*طور. پرسش*هاي تيمسار به عنوان يك متخصص رادار درباره مسايل فني هواپيما، همه را متعجب كرده بود.

روز بعد براي ديدار غلام اسحاق خان رييس جمهور وقت پاكستان رفتيم. مراسمي را براي تجليل از تيمسار ستاري تدارك ديده بودند كه طي آن بالاترين نشان نظامي پاكستان توسط رييس جمهور آن كشور به تيمسار اعطا شد.

تسلط كامل به انگليسي داشت و براي متخصصان چيني صحبت مي*كرد: "يادتان باشد كه شما نيامده*ايد متخصصان ما را آموزش بدهيد. شما آمده*ايد از اين*ها ياد بگيريد و اگر كشور شما اين سيستم را به ما داده است اولا به اين علت است كه هواپيمايي كه بتواند اين سيستم را حمل كند در چين وجود ندارد. ثانيا خلباناني مثل خلبانان با جرأت ما نداشتيد. ثالثا پرسنل فني شما مثل پرسنل ما باتجربه و كاركشته نيستند.

يادتان باشد آمريكا دشمن مشترك ايران و چين است. ما و شما يك طرف ديوار هستيم و آمريكا طرف ديگر آن. پس بياييد اطلاعاتمان را درست مبادله كنيم تا دشمن سود نبرد."

متخصصان چيني كه براي راه*اندازي و بهره*برداري از سيستم جديدي نيروي هوايي آمده بودند با تعجب گفتند: ايشان فرمانده بودند يا پروفسور؟

چند روز بعد از اين مراسم. تيمسار ستاري شهيد شد و همين گروه چيني در مراسم تشييع پيكرش شركت كردند. حتا چند تا از خانم*هاي چنيني باحجاب و دسته*گل در مراسم حاضر بودند و اشك مي*ريختند.

براي بازديد از پايگاه اصفهان رفته بود. او رفت نگهداري و "اورهال" كردن يكي از هواپيماها را كه ديد لبخند زد. "تلاش*هايتان دارد نتيجه مي*دهد". سه ساعت طول كشيد تا از انبارهاي تداركاتي ديدن كرد. بعد از پذيرايي و كمي صحبت و شوخي با كادر پايگاه رفت به انبار قطعات هواپيما، از اين*كه براي اورهال*كردن هواپيما، كمبود قطعه نداشتيم آن*قدر خوشحال شد كه گفت: همه اين قطعات طلا هستند قدر اين*ها را بدانيد كه براي ما افتخار مي*آفرينند.

برق انبار آخر رفته بود ولي با چراغ قوه رفت بازديد و قطعات موجود را به دقت بررسي كرد. بعد از آخرين بازديد*ها گفت: به بچه*هاي سازنده اتومبيل تهران هم قول داده*ام، سري به آنها بزنم. و همراه معاونين در هواپيما نشستند تا به تهران بروند.

فرمانده پايگاه اصفهان تازه وارد ترمينال شده بود كه دژبان در ورودي احترام نظامي گذاشت و اعلام كرد براي هواپيماي تيمسار ستاري حالت اضطراري پيش آمده و در جاده نايين – يزد سانحه ديده است.

gisse

01-22-2008, 11:11 PM

Kermanshah1

01-23-2008, 05:09 AM

If i have noticed Saddam was powered by US during Iran/Iraqi war?

How is possible that some one is in 1988 "good guy" and 3 years later 1991 he is "bad guy". Is that some American standard?

He had to overthrow the Islamic Regime in Tehran, he failed so they had to get rid of him. So they gave him permission to attack Kuwait and used it as excuse to destroy his military. Now Bush, the moron thought it was a good idea to go in, in 2003 and make Iraq into a puppet, but that's just his stupidity...

Mahati

01-23-2008, 12:10 PM

If i have noticed Saddam was powered by US during Iran/Iraqi war?

How is possible that some one is in 1988 "good guy" and 3 years later 1991 he is "bad guy". Is that some American standard?

If Saddam stayed in Iraq, not invaded Kuwait then all would have been good. He invaded the wrong country. The US wanted him to go back into Iran, not Kuwait.

Iranian Guards

01-23-2008, 12:11 PM

The US wanted him to go back into Iran, not Kuwait. thats why we never will be friends. you americans are dumb if you worked with iran you could eliminate all these terrorists cell. but what can you expect from bush administration?

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 12:16 PM

If Saddam stayed in Iraq, not invaded Kuwait then all would have been good. He invaded the wrong country. The US wanted him to go back into Iran, not Kuwait.

The US Ambassador to Iran in a televised statement gave reassurance that the US would not get involved if Iraq went to war with Kuwait...

Backstabbing and lies are the way of our country it seems.

Mahati

01-23-2008, 12:18 PM

The US Ambassador to Iran in a televised statement gave reassurance that the US would not get involved if Iraq went to war with Kuwait...

Backstabbing and lies are the way of our country it seems.

Didn't the Japanese emissaries make promises in D.C. that the Japanese would not attack the US? 3 days later Pearl harbor gets bombed. Ahmadinejad runs his mouth about not having nuclear capability. Next thing we know Israel will get nuked. You crack me up with how everyone else is perfect and the evil Americans are hte scoundrels.

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 12:23 PM

Didn't the Japanese emissaries make promises in D.C. that the Japanese would not attack the US? 3 days later Pearl harbor gets bombed. Ahmadinejad runs his mouth about not having nuclear capability. Next thing we know Israel will get nuked. You crack me up with how everyone else is perfect and the evil Americans are hte scoundrels.

You just used a hypothetical situation to prove a point? Wow!

Mahati

01-23-2008, 12:29 PM

You just used a hypothetical situation to prove a point? Wow!

No I am going off of what you said. If things went your way, because you said that 1 Iranian nuke will take care of Israel.

Iranian Guards

01-23-2008, 12:31 PM

No I am going off of what you said. If things went your way, because you said that 1 Iranian nuke will take care of Israel. yes because israel is very small.

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 12:35 PM

No I am going off of what you said. If things went your way, because you said that 1 Iranian nuke will take care of Israel.

What?

Are you high this morning Mahati? Little too much Mary Jane?

This is what I said...

The US Ambassador to Iran in a televised statement gave reassurance that the US would not get involved if Iraq went to war with Kuwait...

Backstabbing and lies are the way of our country it seems.

This is what you said...

Didn't the Japanese emissaries make promises in D.C. that the Japanese would not attack the US? 3 days later Pearl harbor gets bombed. Ahmadinejad runs his mouth about not having nuclear capability. Next thing we know Israel will get nuked. You crack me up with how everyone else is perfect and the evil Americans are hte scoundrels.

This is what you say now when i pointed out your idiocy...

No I am going off of what you said. If things went your way, because you said that 1 Iranian nuke will take care of Israel.

You make no sense, you bypass reality, and make excuses for America's wrongdoings which you DO NOT ACCEPT, no matter how much you pretend you do. I am baffled at how far down your debate skills have fallen.

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 12:39 PM

For Mahati with love...

July 25, 1990: US Ambassador Gives Tacit ‘Green Light’ for Iraq’s Invasion of Kuwait
Edit event

April Glaspie and Saddam Hussein.April Glaspie and Saddam Hussein. [Source: Wilson's Almanac]The US ambassador to Baghdad, April Glaspie, meets with Saddam Hussein and promises him that President Bush wants “better and deeper relations.” She tells Hussein that Bush is an “intelligent man,” and adds, “He is not going to declare an economic war against Iraq.” [Washington Post, 12/30/2002; London Times, 12/31/2002] Glaspie tells Hussein, “We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait.… We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your other threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned.

For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship—not confrontation—regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait’s borders?” Hussein answers that he intends to try to negotiate a peaceful settlement with Kuwait; Glaspie asks what solutions Hussein would find acceptable. Hussein wants to keep the entire Shatt al Arab [a strategically important waterway] under Iraqi control, and if given that, he is willing to make concessions to Kuwait. However, if he has to give up some control of the Shatt, he will renounce all control in favor of bringing Kuwait back under Iraqi dominion. Glaspie replies, “We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary [of State James] Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.” Reportedly Hussein takes this as a green light from the US to proceed with the invasion. [New York Times, 9/23/1990; Los Angeles Times, 1/5/2003] Later evidence shows that the entire Iraq-Kuwait dispute may have been manipulated to some extent by the United States. Author and investigative producer Barry Lando will say in February 2007, “After Iraq’s war with Iran ended, the Kuwaitis manipulated the world oil price through their production—they greatly increased their oil production, which dropped the world oil price.

That really hurt Iraq, because Saddam was counting on oil revenues to rebuild after the war. He went to the Kuwaitis and he said, look, back off because you’re killing my economy. The Kuwaitis refused to back down. Later it came out that the Kuwaiti’s leaders had been meeting with the CIA exactly to put pressure on Saddam Hussein. [Glaspie] told Saddam Hussein that we will not take any position as far as your border disputes with Kuwait go. Her superior, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly, also testified before Congress a couple of days later. When asked point blank, ‘If Saddam invades Kuwait, do we have any treaty with Kuwait?’ he said, ‘No, we don’t.’”

Iranian Guards

01-23-2008, 12:41 PM

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 12:43 PM

jedd corpse, do not waste your time with those american warmongers like mahati.
he lacks knowledge about iran and its political and military system and iranian pride and culture... he really needs to educate itself about our great,beloved country Iran!

His problem is that he takes jokes that you make like Iranians hiding under ground as if it were some real idea of strategy, and not of a symbolic nature. He then applies this thinking to my more rational argument and takes the holier then thou stance thinking all his arguments are facts.

Conan

01-23-2008, 12:48 PM

Mahati

01-23-2008, 12:53 PM

yes because israel is very small.

Where is Iran getting that nuke from? That was my point.

Iranian Guards

01-23-2008, 12:54 PM

Where is Iran getting that nuke from? That was my point. maybe they have bought 1 from ukraine during the soviet collapse.
and where are the other 200 missing nuke warheads?

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 12:55 PM

July 25, 1990: US Ambassador Gives Tacit ‘Green Light’ for Iraq’s Invasion of Kuwait
Edit event

April Glaspie and Saddam Hussein.April Glaspie and Saddam Hussein. [Source: Wilson's Almanac]The US ambassador to Baghdad, April Glaspie, meets with Saddam Hussein and promises him that President Bush wants “better and deeper relations.” She tells Hussein that Bush is an “intelligent man,” and adds, “He is not going to declare an economic war against Iraq.” [Washington Post, 12/30/2002; London Times, 12/31/2002] Glaspie tells Hussein, “We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait.… We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your other threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned.

For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship—not confrontation—regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait’s borders?” Hussein answers that he intends to try to negotiate a peaceful settlement with Kuwait; Glaspie asks what solutions Hussein would find acceptable. Hussein wants to keep the entire Shatt al Arab [a strategically important waterway] under Iraqi control, and if given that, he is willing to make concessions to Kuwait. However, if he has to give up some control of the Shatt, he will renounce all control in favor of bringing Kuwait back under Iraqi dominion. Glaspie replies, “We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary [of State James] Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.” Reportedly Hussein takes this as a green light from the US to proceed with the invasion. [New York Times, 9/23/1990; Los Angeles Times, 1/5/2003] Later evidence shows that the entire Iraq-Kuwait dispute may have been manipulated to some extent by the United States. Author and investigative producer Barry Lando will say in February 2007, “After Iraq’s war with Iran ended, the Kuwaitis manipulated the world oil price through their production—they greatly increased their oil production, which dropped the world oil price.

That really hurt Iraq, because Saddam was counting on oil revenues to rebuild after the war. He went to the Kuwaitis and he said, look, back off because you’re killing my economy. The Kuwaitis refused to back down. Later it came out that the Kuwaiti’s leaders had been meeting with the CIA exactly to put pressure on Saddam Hussein. [Glaspie] told Saddam Hussein that we will not take any position as far as your border disputes with Kuwait go. Her superior, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly, also testified before Congress a couple of days later. When asked point blank, ‘If Saddam invades Kuwait, do we have any treaty with Kuwait?’ he said, ‘No, we don’t.’”

I don't see any green light? All I see that Saddam was using gunboat diplomacy on Kuwait.

Right here

[Glaspie] told Saddam Hussein that we will not take any position as far as your border disputes with Kuwait go. Her superior, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly, also testified before Congress a couple of days later. When asked point blank, ‘If Saddam invades Kuwait, do we have any treaty with Kuwait?’ he said, ‘No, we don’t.’”

Mahati

01-23-2008, 12:57 PM

What?

Are you high this morning Mahati? Little too much Mary Jane?

This is what I said...

This is what you said...

This is what you say now when i pointed out your idiocy...

You make no sense, you bypass reality, and make excuses for America's wrongdoings which you DO NOT ACCEPT, no matter how much you pretend you do. I am baffled at how far down your debate skills have fallen.

You really lack reading comprehension don't you. You attempted to paint the US as the devil for lying to Iraq about how we would respond if they attacked Kuwait. I told the US is not the only country to backstab someone and lie because the Japanese did it in WWII, so did the Germans when Hitler told Chamberlain that he would not invade Poland. I then said that Ahmadinejad runs his mouth about not having nukes nor even wanting them, yet in another thread you said Iran will nuke Israel. Keep up with the conversations and for gods sake remember what you say because the moment you contradict yourself which you do often I will throw it back at you.

Mahati

01-23-2008, 12:59 PM

For Mahati with love...

Unlike you Iranian fanboys, I never deny Americas misteps, nor try to correct a quote that an American leader says. I do not deny this article at all. So what is your point?

Conan

01-23-2008, 01:01 PM

Right here

[Glaspie] told Saddam Hussein that we will not take any position as far as your border disputes with Kuwait go. Her superior, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly, also testified before Congress a couple of days later. When asked point blank, ‘If Saddam invades Kuwait, do we have any treaty with Kuwait?’ he said, ‘No, we don’t.’”

If I re-call....she was fired over that.

This is what happens when you have inexperience diplomat's in time of crises.

You know that, as well as everyone else.

There's all kinds of information out on the Internet. United States did not gave Saddam permission as some are saying.....that's totally hogwash.

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 01:14 PM

You really lack reading comprehension don't you. You attempted to paint the US as the devil for lying to Iraq about how we would respond if they attacked Kuwait. I told the US is not the only country to backstab someone and lie because the Japanese did it in WWII, so did the Germans when Hitler told Chamberlain that he would not invade Poland. I then said that Ahmadinejad runs his mouth about not having nukes nor even wanting them, yet in another thread you said Iran will nuke Israel. Keep up with the conversations and for gods sake remember what you say because the moment you contradict yourself which you do often I will throw it back at you.

When did I say Iran would nuke Israel you simpleton?

I said Russia would Nuke Israel.... If Iran had nukes, yea they would try... BUT THE OTHER THREAD WAS IN REGARDS TO AFTER ISRAEL NUKES IRAN.

Your misuse of my words shows once again how much you lack the ability to debate.

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 01:16 PM

[Glaspie] told Saddam Hussein that we will not take any position as far as your border disputes with Kuwait go. Her superior, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly, also testified before Congress a couple of days later. When asked point blank, ‘If Saddam invades Kuwait, do we have any treaty with Kuwait?’ he said, ‘No, we don’t.’”

If I re-call....she was fired over that.

This is what happens when you have inexperience diplomat's in time of crises.

You know that, as well as everyone else.

There's all kinds of information out on the Internet. United States did not gave Saddam permission as some are saying.....that's totally hogwash.

She was fired.... So what? Thousands of Iraqi's died because they thought the US wouldn't do anything about it.

This was the one time I agreed with Iraq's moves, and the US stepped in and contradicted itself.

It is easy to sit there and say... "She got fired over that" and bring up the fact that she was an inexperienced Diplomat, when you are not the one dead or dieing cause of a mistake.

But did you miss the part that Secretary of state John Kelly told congress we had no treaty with Kuwait?

That was the green light. Her words and the SoS words combined = Green Light!

gisse

01-23-2008, 01:17 PM

When did I say Iran would nuke Israel you simpleton?

I said Russia would Nuke Israel.... If Iran had nukes, yea they would try... BUT THE OTHER THREAD WAS IN REGARDS TO AFTER ISRAEL NUKES IRAN.

Your misuse of my words shows once again how much you lack the ability to debate.

I need to say that Russia don't have anything with Israel, they are not concern for all that there.

For them now is important to place military base in Serbia so the US can't take all.

Last thing is problem of Israel and Iran.

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 01:19 PM

Unlike you Iranian fanboys, I never deny Americas misteps, nor try to correct a quote that an American leader says. I do not deny this article at all. So what is your point?

Oh drop the ******** Mahati... You put up a facade of aknowledgment, yet defend every misstep with great fervor.

Conan

01-23-2008, 01:58 PM

She was fired.... So what? Thousands of Iraqi's died because they thought the US wouldn't do anything about it.

See right here is were you and I have a problem. You're blaming the deaths of Iraqis on Americans....specifically President Bush senior. It was Saddam Hussein that invaded Kuwait.

This was the one time I agreed with Iraq's moves, and the US stepped in and contradicted itself.

Of course you're going to agree with Iraq....since when you ever agreed with Americans?

It is easy to sit there and say... "She got fired over that" and bring up the fact that she was an inexperienced Diplomat, when you are not the one dead or dieing cause of a mistake.

**** happens all the time throughout history. It doesn't make it right. But it IS a fact.

But did you miss the part that Secretary of state John Kelly told congress we had no treaty with Kuwait?

Yeah....so what! We did have a treaty with Saudi Arabia. And Iraq military was at its gates. That alone gave us the right under that treaty.

That was the green light. Her words and the SoS words combined = Green Light!

Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.” Reportedly Hussein takes this as a green light from the US to proceed with the invasion.

Glaspie was repeating what James Baker told her. About Iraq/Kawait border dispute of 1960's.

It was her words but not American stance in the middle east.

Sorry bud.....be you blame America crowd are getting desperate.

Mahati

01-23-2008, 02:14 PM

When did I say Iran would nuke Israel you simpleton?

I said Russia would Nuke Israel.... If Iran had nukes, yea they would try... BUT THE OTHER THREAD WAS IN REGARDS TO AFTER ISRAEL NUKES IRAN.

Your misuse of my words shows once again how much you lack the ability to debate.

Careful what you ask for. I will go back and pull out your quotes, when I have the time. You said 1 Iranian nuke will destroy Israel. When I called you on where Iran would get that nuke from you then changed to Russia will nuke Irael on Irans behalf. I do not misuse your words I take them exactly as you say and not interpret them. Are you like Ahmadinejad now and saying, "I know I said this, but I mean something else." :roflmao3:

Mahati

01-23-2008, 02:27 PM

Oh drop the ******** Mahati... You put up a facade of aknowledgment, yet defend every misstep with great fervor.

I defend the facts, not the positions. You have not learned that difference yet. It would not matter if I was American, French, Mexican, or Russian. What I say is true based on facts, not my own opinion or beliefs. How can the questions I ask you be called defending America? Do you want me to make it easy for you?

Fact 1: Iran has no capability to project their military onto Israel.
Fact 2: Iran has no logistical capability to march millions of their troops into Syria to attack Israel.
Fact 3: Syria and Iran have the same Russian bought defense system which failed for Syria when Israeli warships flew in and bombed whatever they wanted.
Fact 4: Hezbollah and Hamas have proven they can defend somewhat, but cannot go on the offensive and invade Israel.
Fact 5: Iran does not have the best missiles in the world, nor satellite capability to accurately target and guide their missiles. As a result they rely on firing multiple missiles at the same target in hopes of one of them going through.
Fact 6: Israel has the capability to fire accurate conventional and unconventional missiles at Iran.
Fact 7: Israel has the capability to control the skys over Iran and bomb anything they want with accuracy.
Fact 8: Israel tiny yet more technologically advanced than Iran
Fact 9: Iran has a larger military than Israel
Fact 10: Israel has no capability to move Israeli troops into Iran.

Sorry Jedd, these are the facts, and you cannot answer them.

Now let's view your arguments shall we?

Wishful thinking 1: Irans missiles will destroy Israel
Wishful thinking 2: Irans soldiers will march through Syria and walk over Israel
Wishful thinking 3: Iran will nuke Israel if Israel nukes Iran
Wishful thinking 4: Russia and China will nuke Israel if Israel attacks iran
Wishful thinking 5: The US will not get involved in a conflict between Iran and Israel
Wishful thinking 6: The US Navy will be at the bottom of the Gulf if they intervene.
Wishful thinking 7: The US troops in Iraq will be overun if they attack Iran.
Wishful thinking 8: Hezbollah and Hamas will defeat the Israeli ground forces
Wishful thinking 9: Because Iran is just and America is evil Iran will never lose a battle.
Wishful thinking 10: Iran will squeeze the Israeli and American balls.

Oh my who can argue against that? I mean what was I thinking? I guess I lose. :roflmao3:

Kermanshah1

01-23-2008, 02:37 PM

Amir

01-23-2008, 02:52 PM

Pictures

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=24250

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 03:26 PM

Careful what you ask for. I will go back and pull out your quotes, when I have the time. You said 1 Iranian nuke will destroy Israel. When I called you on where Iran would get that nuke from you then changed to Russia will nuke Irael on Irans behalf. I do not misuse your words I take them exactly as you say and not interpret them. Are you like Ahmadinejad now and saying, "I know I said this, but I mean something else." :roflmao3:

1 Nuke can destroy Israel... Not every inch of land in Israel, but the government, the country, and its people. I stand by that.

Jedd Corpse

01-23-2008, 03:38 PM

I defend the facts, not the positions. You have not learned that difference yet. It would not matter if I was American, French, Mexican, or Russian. What I say is true based on facts, not my own opinion or beliefs. How can the questions I ask you be called defending America? Do you want me to make it easy for you?

Fact 1: Iran has no capability to project their military onto Israel.

It is not necessary to destroy Israel

Fact 2: Iran has no logistical capability to march millions of their troops into Syria to attack Israel.

It is not necessary to destroy Israel

Fact 3: Syria and Iran have the same Russian bought defense system which failed for Syria when Israeli warships flew in and bombed whatever they wanted.

Not based on fact, based on your wanting it to be true.

Fact 4: Hezbollah and Hamas have proven they can defend somewhat, but cannot go on the offensive and invade Israel.

Once again not proven...

Fact 5: Iran does not have the best missiles in the world, nor satellite capability to accurately target and guide their missiles. As a result they rely on firing multiple missiles at the same target in hopes of one of them going through.

Partially true, However the ineffectiveness of their missiles is nowhere near as high as you claim

Fact 6: Israel has the capability to fire accurate conventional and unconventional missiles at Iran.

True

Fact 7: Israel has the capability to control the skys over Iran and bomb anything they want with accuracy.

False, You offer no fact to back this statement.

Fact 8: Israel tiny yet more technologically advanced than Iran

True

Fact 9: Iran has a larger military than Israel

Iran has a larger everything then Israel

Fact 10: Israel has no capability to move Israeli troops into Iran.

True

Sorry Jedd, these are the facts, and you cannot answer them.

Now let's view your arguments shall we?

Wishful thinking 1: Irans missiles will destroy Israel

I said CAN destroy, not WILL destroy. And it is a fact

Wishful thinking 2: Irans soldiers will march through Syria and walk over Israel

Never claimed such a thing, so you are using it against me but are lieing in saying I claim this to be the way they can fight Israel.

HOWEVER with all that aside, It IS possible, Can you prove it is impossible?

Wishful thinking 3: Iran will nuke Israel if Israel nukes Iran

If Iran had nukes, and Israel Nuked Iran, I see no reason to believe this is wishful thinking and not truth... And if it is not true, perhaps you should be asking our president why he thinks Iran is a threat when they wouldn't even launch a nuke against Israel after being nuked.

Wishful thinking 4: Russia and China will nuke Israel if Israel attacks iran

Do you speak for Russia or China? Once again, not wishful thinking, Nor is it fact that they wouldn't.

Wishful thinking 5: The US will not get involved in a conflict between Iran and Israel

Never claimed the US would not get involved... Only discussing what Iran could do to Israel if it were 1v1, However if Israel Nuked Iran pre-emptively, the US would not get involved, and thinking they would is ludicrous.

Wishful thinking 6: The US Navy will be at the bottom of the Gulf if they intervene.

The US will lose many vessels in the gulf and straight in a conflict with Iran... Just cause you think it isn't fact, does not make it so. This is one of the main reasons that the Generals do not believe a war with Iran is in the best interest of the US.

Wishful thinking 7: The US troops in Iraq will be overun if they attack Iran.

Any attack on Iran is asking for a Iranian incursion into Iraq... You are once again not providing facts to prove the opposite.

Wishful thinking 8: Hezbollah and Hamas will defeat the Israeli ground forces

Never claimed they would in an offensive, though they would in a defensive nature of a battle.

However they can keep them busy while Iran launches missiles.

Wishful thinking 9: Because Iran is just and America is evil Iran will never lose a battle.

Uh... What? Did I ever say such a thing?
Wishful thinking 10: Iran will squeeze the Israeli and American balls.

Personally I don't want anyone squeezing my balls.

Once again Mahati.. you provide 0 facts, and only speculation in your entire post. It is expected

Oh my who can argue against that? I mean what was I thinking? I guess I lose. :roflmao3:

Prove something for once instead of calling your opinions facts

Kermanshah1

01-24-2008, 06:15 AM

Not based on fact, based on your wanting it to be true.

Quite impressive though, that Israel flew Warships over Syria :laugh4: but as I said, it isn't really such an earodynamic design...:roflmao3:

Alex

01-28-2008, 05:46 PM

A prominent Iraqi academic says that the French government has stepped up its efforts to conceal its involvement in the Iran-Iraq war.

“After Iranian authorities disclosed a couple of important documents relating to the issue, Paris has urged the Iraqi government and the Foreign Ministry to safeguard all files relating to France's cooperation with the deposed Iraqi dictator,” Mohammad Al Jenabi told ISNA.

The head of Iran's Foundation of Safeguarding the Values of the Sacred Defense, General Mirfaisal Baqerzadeh, had earlier revealed that certain documents indicate the former French intelligence official, Philippe Rondot had persuaded the government to provide Iraq with Mirage aircraft and Ronald missiles.

The document further specifies that France had been reviewing possibilities of providing Iraq with 'a very small type' of nuclear weapon.

Al Jenabi said he has documents which reveal that Saddam had presented lavish gifts and cash to several high ranking French officials in exchange for their support.

The imposed Iraq-Iran war, considered to be one of the greatest human tragedies in the history of the Middle East, left over a million people killed, wounded, or displaced after Saddam invaded Iran in 1980.

On several occasions, the Saddam regime used banned chemical weapons, provided by Western companies, against Iranian forces and civilians.
http://www.presstv.ir/photo/20080128/torabi20080128183011421.jpg
Jacques Chirac (L), Saddam Hussein

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=40755&sectionid=351020101

Ya2

01-28-2008, 07:12 PM

Wishful thinking 2: Irans soldiers will march through Syria and walk over Israel
Never claimed such a thing, so you are using it against me but are lieing in saying I claim this to be the way they can fight Israel.

That's the day Japan will change it's flag from 1 sun to many suns which will "Rise" above Syria and Iran...

Iranium

01-28-2008, 07:39 PM

That's the day Japan will change it's flag from 1 sun to many suns which will "Rise" above Syria and Iran...

but it is also after the day huge grey mushroom appear in israel

oldboy

01-29-2008, 08:21 AM

Oh God! Here we go again.

@@@@@!

02-07-2008, 09:02 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTkTfZSDpLs&feature=related

@@@@@!

02-07-2008, 09:12 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLxk2AGOJHs&feature=related

@@@@@!

02-16-2008, 10:35 PM

lots of people ask about chamran rpg bikers

they were just like these kids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHCp7JFl1AM&feature=related

natural born rpg bikers ....

@@@@@!

02-25-2008, 08:41 PM

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Country-By-Country/Iraq.htm

Numen

04-05-2008, 03:58 AM

lowe1941 Ahmagh

04-12-2008, 10:00 PM

USA did very little to help Saddam,, they wanted neither Iraq or Iran to dominate the middle east

Kermanshah1

04-13-2008, 03:49 AM

USA did very little to help Saddam,, they wanted neither Iraq or Iran to dominate the middle east

They went as far as attacking and sinking Iranian warships and supplying Iraq with WMDs!

lowe1941 Ahmagh

04-13-2008, 06:06 AM

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

lowe1941 Ahmagh

04-13-2008, 06:10 AM

The largest suppliers of WMD to Iraq are as followed,,, though how many of them knew the end use of what they sold or care I have idea. For any poltican in the USA to approve the us of WMD would be poltical suicide. By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and Federal Republic of Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq. Would suggest you do a little research on the subject if you are interested in facts and the truth.

lowe1941 Ahmagh

04-13-2008, 06:25 AM

Think the navel engagment had something to do with this..and a mine damageing a USA war ship Lloyd’s of London, a British insurance market, estimated that the Tanker War damaged 546 commercial vessels and killed about 430 civilian mariners. The largest of attacks were directed by Iran against Kuwaiti vessels, and on November 1 1986, Kuwait formally petitioned foreign powers to protect its shipping. The Soviet Union agreed to charter tankers starting in 1987, and the United States offered to provide protection for tankers flying the U.S. flag on March 7 1987

Kermanshah1

04-13-2008, 08:16 AM

lowe1941 Ahmagh

04-13-2008, 08:33 AM

Just as Iran bought materials from the west to fight in the iraq iran war,, iraq did too..I doubt if any other country deliberalty helped Saddam to get WMD, though was a german firm that built the manfacturing plants that may have knowen something,,saddam was an allie of the USSR,, he was never considered a friend of the USA...Iran was in bed with him far more often then the USA ever was.

marquez26387

04-24-2008, 08:12 AM

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

Iranian Guards

04-24-2008, 08:39 AM

Janbaz

04-28-2008, 05:52 PM

I have not seen this video from Iran/Iraq war before This was new to me.

-g1RSRhO24A&feature=related

jamesK1

05-30-2008, 02:10 PM

I tried to post link(s) but I need 10 posts before I can post link(s).

Shamshire...

05-30-2008, 02:13 PM

I get very sad every time I watch one of the sacred defence videos

payam

05-30-2008, 02:21 PM

Noor

05-30-2008, 02:22 PM

I get sad when even i hear the word iraq,it reminds me thier crimes against iranian.
They did all possible crimes,we have to start some judgment courts against iraqis, just like what europians did for germans.
Even If they give us all thier oil resources they cant pay for it....

Yes, At least Saddam got what he deserved....

Shamshire...

05-30-2008, 02:30 PM

Yes, At least Saddam got what he deserved....

No he should have been tortured to death like he did to so many Iranians
Hanging was a comfort for him

Iranian Guards

05-31-2008, 05:04 AM

No he should have been tortured to death like he did to so many Iranians
Hanging was a comfort for him

he should be transfered to jail in ghazvin and he should got tortured by 100000 young ghazvini boys

JanIran

05-31-2008, 05:05 AM

No he should have been tortured to death like he did to so many Iranians
Hanging was a comfort for him

I'm not arguing against that, even if I'm against torture...

spirit

06-01-2008, 12:34 PM

hmmm... some photos...

Ashmadie

06-01-2008, 08:18 PM

Ashmadie

06-01-2008, 08:19 PM

he should be transfered to jail in ghazvin and he should got tortured by 100000 young ghazvini boys

This is just wrong.

If you'd have tortured him, you'd be no better than the beast him self !!!

Noor

06-01-2008, 10:55 PM

This is just wrong.

If you'd have tortured him, you'd be no better than the beast him self !!!

Torture is practiced in many countries, and those who carry out these acts are usually seen in a positive light (due to a lack of knowledge of his/her acts behind the scenes) due to these individuals positions in the government (be it soldier or general).

Gilgamesh

08-15-2008, 01:35 PM

@@@@@!

08-25-2008, 12:02 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbozX29-djY&feature=related

payam

08-25-2008, 02:36 AM

Realy sad to see how muslims slaughtered each others in the Iraq-Iran war. America and Europe watched them and did nothing to stop the war, compare that to the war between Georgia and Russia, they reacted immediately and stopped the war. The wahabi's (salafis) of Saudi, Qatar, UAE,... were happy and supported Saddam with weapons because they were scared by the shia. America and Europe took advantage of that to sell weapons for these countries. When Iraq almost won they gave weapons to Iran and when Iran almost won they gave Saddam chemical weapons to stop them.

The fact is Iraq started this war,And you think sadam attacked iran with a gun alone?he had an army and his army were iraqis.
If you knew about thier crimes to IRANIAN people you will found out these bastards are just So called muslim.

What do the Iraqis have to do with the war that Saddam and his allies started? Most of the Iraqis who died in the war were innocent just like the iranians who were killed. Don't be a racist. Most of the iraqis fought for Saddam because else they would have been executed if they did not.

So you wana telling me Iraqi soldiers were kissing iranians in war?and you want to tell me you dont know anything of thier crimes In iranian lands to iranian people?
Getting executed is better than living like a dog.

Who do you want to blame for the war? The Iraqi population? Why don't you go to the Saudi king and start judgement courts there because of the hundreds iranian pelgrims they killed and because of the saudi support for Saddam?

The iraqis saw more crimes than the iranians ever could imagine.

Ayatoellah Khoemeini (ra) was a real leader who didn't support crimes, not even against the iraqis who invaded his country. But Khamenei is different, may Allah forgive him if he did wrong things.

Yes khamemeni is diffrent,thats why Iran helped and is helping Iraq to rebuild the governement and country and thats why he said we dont sue Iraqis for War damages -Billions of dollars-

Thats why with all Dirty behaviours of Iraqis against Iranian yet we are helping them.
If you want to know some People know Ayatollah khamenei as a traitor becuase he is doing too much mercy to some people that dont deserve it.
Mr,It is jsut about some years ago not a century ago.we already remebering what these bastard did to our country and people.

It was so funny 1 mounth ago some Iraqi governments In an interview with American newspaper called iranians the starter of war and killers of Iraqis:lol3:They want to change all the facts in order to not indemnify Iran for her losses. They also said if iran wants to help iraqs please give our jet fighters back:roflmao3:

Yes we could easily forget the history and start a new relation with iraqis ,but not when they are unfair against us like this:frown3:
The angry side must be iran and not iraq,Im sure if you give them another chance they will again attack us

Gilgamesh

09-06-2008, 05:49 AM

selam aleikum

The fact is Iraq started this war,And you think sadam attacked iran with a gun alone?he had an army and his army were iraqis.
If you knew about thier crimes to IRANIAN people you will found out these bastards are just So called muslim.

I know Iraq started the war and not only with guns but they also used chemical weapons. I think you need some education about the Bath-party of Saddam:

The generals and the big officers of the army were Sunni's and not Shia. Saddam didn't allow any shiiet to get a high position like a minister or a general, all of them were sunnis and most of these so called sunnis were not even muslims.

Saudi, Qatar, UAE and other arab countries supported Saddam for one reason: They were scared of the uprising Shia. USA supported Saddam to sell weapons for Iraq and to see the muslims killing each other just like soviet an other countries.

In Iraq there are 65% Shia, 15% Sunni's, 15% Kurds, 5% minorities: The Shia of Iraq were supporters of Khoemeini and Kurds fought against Saddam, so how many Iraqis realy followed Saddam? Maybe only the sunni's?

Many Iraqi soldiers didn't even want to fight for Saddam, because they had no reason to invade Iran and also because the iranians were shia. But who did not fight got executed, that's why there was no ther way for the regular iraqi soldier.

So you wana telling me Iraqi soldiers were kissing iranians in war?and you want to tell me you dont know anything of thier crimes In iranian lands to iranian people?
Getting executed is better than living like a dog.

Yes, many of the iraqis fought on the side of Iran. In the Iraq-Iran war it were mostly Iraqis who fought against MKO and defeated them. Who do you think prevented MKO from doing major operation against Iran? It was the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council with Ayatoellah Al-Hakim as leader!

The crimes of Saddam against the iranian people are known, but it was not only against the Iranian people, Saddam killed over 1.000.000 Iraqis (massacres) just because they didn't want to follow him.

Read about the uprising of the Shia and the Kurds in Iraq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_uprisings_in_Iraq

Saddam destroyed whole Karabal, Kufa, Basra and Najaf after the uprising of 1991 and he executed all of them.

The uprising of the Shia in Krabala was filmed by two brothers, you can watch it here, look what Saddam did to his own people:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kyxhK9XfDKk

Didn't you hear about Ayatoelah Mohammad Sadeq al-Sadr? He was killed by Saddam just because he was telling the people to fight against Saddam. The same story happened with Mohammed Baqir Al-Sadr.

Yes khamemeni is diffrent,thats why Iran helped and is helping Iraq to rebuild the governement and country and thats why he said we dont sue Iraqis for War damages -Billions of dollars-

Thats why with all Dirty behaviours of Iraqis against Iranian yet we are helping them.

How are u helping the Iraqis? The iranians gave weapons to al-qaeda fighters in Iraq and to many other groups, and how did they use this weapons? They killed Iraqis and not americans, there are over 1.000.000 iraqis who died just because of the countries like Iran and Syria who opened their doors for them to enter Iraq and kill innocent people. The same story with Jaish al-Mahdi, how much do you know about this people to support them with weapons? Jaish al-Mahdi exist of Bath-members, muders, and prisoners who ran from the jail after the invasion of Iraq. They bombed in Najaf and Karbala with the birthday of the Mahdi and killed many innocent people, they used mosques to execute iraqis who they think are working with america. They killed many girls in Basra just because they didn'y wear a scarf or executed a boy because he listened to music, is that what you call helping iraq?

It was so funny 1 mounth ago some Iraqi governments In an interview with American newspaper called iranians the starter of war and killers of Iraqis They want to change all the facts in order to not indemnify Iran for her losses. They also said if iran wants to help iraqs please give our jet fighters back

The starter of the war was Saddam, it's not the iraqi civilians who started the war. Iraq does not need old jet fighters anymore, iraq should better have a weak army.

Yes we could easily forget the history and start a new relation with iraqis ,but not when they are unfair against us like this
The angry side must be iran and not iraq,Im sure if you give them another chance they will again attack us

Iraq from now on will always be ruled by Shia... So you can't expect a war anymore... I think if Bush had the chance to travel back in time he would not have invaded Iraq but rather supported them with weapons to start a new war against Iran. Whe Bush invaded Iraq he thought he could simply replace Saddam by an another member from the Bath-party, but it was not how he expected.

We alikum eselaam

ISR_Ivan

09-06-2008, 07:57 AM

Iraq sucked big time strategically.. they could have won this war if they used their weaponry properly..

Iranian Guards

09-06-2008, 08:01 AM

atleast the iraqis are now paying for their crims against mighty Iran

damnations

09-06-2008, 08:06 AM

We hate arabs, always did and always will...gilgamesh this is for you...I will wait for the day that Iranians gonna shred you to pieaces once again....oh I forgot americans already did that....must hurt when you walk over to the cave supermarket of yours...

Gilgamesh

09-08-2008, 06:45 AM

atleast the iraqis are now paying for their crims against mighty Iran

Why don't you tell us what the MKO did to the iranian people? The crimes MKO did to the iranian people are much worser than what Saddam did to the iranians in 8 year. Mention their crimes if you realy love your country, tell us how many times they launched missiles at Tehran and how many innocent people they killed by placing bombs in iranian roads to kill as many people as they could. Do you remember that, or did you leave Iran after the revolution and immigrated to Europe?

We hate arabs, always did and always will...gilgamesh this is for you...I will wait for the day that Iranians gonna shred you to pieaces once again....oh I forgot americans already did that....must hurt when you walk over to the cave supermarket of yours...

Ciao! :lol3:

Iraq sucked big time strategically.. they could have won this war if they used their weaponry properly..

Imagine Iraq had conquered whole Iran, would America and Israel let that happen? I don't think so.

Sokuy30

09-08-2008, 06:54 AM

Iraq is not country! another shikhdom in Transition.:roflmao3::biggrin1:

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 06:59 AM

Why don't you tell us what the MKO did to the iranian people? The crimes MKO did to the iranian people are much worser than what Saddam did to the iranians in 8 year. Mention their crimes if you realy love your country, tell us how many times they launched missiles at Tehran and how many innocent people they killed by placing bombs in iranian roads to kill as many people as they could. Do you remember that, or did you leave Iran after the revolution and immigrated to Europe?
MKO are Iranians, they are a different story :teacher3:

Ciao! :lol3:

Imagine Iraq had conquered whole Iran, would America and Israel let that happen? I don't think so.
Iraq has not the capability to harm Iran.
btw, your government is in our hands, your little country is in our hands :teacher3:

Gilgamesh

09-08-2008, 07:17 AM

MKO are Iranians, they are a different story

That's what I wanted to hear... You are a MKO-lover, do you think you 're welcome in Iran? I don't think so. The true iranian people who didn't ran away from their country know what kind of crimes they did. Why are you defending Iran if you are a MKO-lover who hide in Iraq? If you go to Iran the IRGC tear you to peaces...

btw, your government is in our hands, your little country is in our hands

You're not an Iranian and you're not welcome there, so stop defending Iran.

Iraq is not country! another shikhdom in Transition

There are not so many educated people here... The same guys who depilate their eyebrows :lol3:

Sokuy30

09-08-2008, 07:23 AM

Just collect you welfare check and shut the hell up in the morning!:biggrin1:

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:23 AM

That's what I wanted to hear... You are a MKO-lover, do you think you 're welcome in Iran? I don't think so. The true iranian people who didn't ran away from their country know what kind of crimes they did. Why are you defending Iran if you are a MKO-lover who hide in Iraq? If you go to Iran the IRGC tear you to peaces...
My father and grandfather killed Iraqi and MKO soldiers ;)

You're not an Iranian and you're not welcome there, so stop defending Iran.
:D

There are not so many educated people here... The same guys who depilate their eyebrows :lol3:

arab sandblaster! :roflmao3:

Sokuy30

09-08-2008, 07:27 AM

watch the language!

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:28 AM

Gilgamesh, please dont make urself tired cuz i will always defend my nation. i wont let u, yes YOU little arab iraqi insult my great nation ;)

Gilgamesh

09-08-2008, 07:33 AM

My father and grandfather killed Iraqi and MKO soldiers ;)

And I have to believe you? You ran away from Iran and you're telling me your father fought in the war? If that's realy true, tell us the crimes the MKO did to the iranian people, or does it hurt you when you say something bad about Munafiqien Khalq?

90% of the iranians who ran away from their country are MKO-lovers and the reason they left Iran was because of the islam and Khomeini.

The true Iranian people didn't leave their country, look at your self you have two faces, realy pathetic.

Gilgamesh

09-08-2008, 07:35 AM

Gilgamesh, please dont make urself tired cuz i will always defend my nation. i wont let u, yes YOU little arab iraqi insult my great nation ;)

Your nation? Why did you ran away from your great nation? :lol3:

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:36 AM

And I have to believe you? You ran away from Iran and you're telling me your father fought in the war? If that's realy true, tell us the crimes the MKO did to the iranian people, or does it hurt you when you say something bad about Munafiqien Khalq?
I can PM you if you want pictures of my father during the war :)

90% of the iranians who ran away from their country are MKO-lovers and the reason they left Iran was because of the islam and Khomeini.
Well i am not MKO member and i had several fight with Iranian MKO here. to be honest we dont consider them as iranians but as ''Iraqis''

The true Iranian people didn't leave their country, look at your self you have two faces, realy pathetic. i have 1 beautiful Iranian face :roflmao3:
you arab going to teach me who i am ?

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:37 AM

Your nation? Why did you ran away from your great nation? :lol3:

are you talking about yourself u baathist scum ? :roflmao3:

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:37 AM

Your nation? Why did you ran away from your great nation? :lol3:

gilgamesh doesn't know the difference, he was borned in Ghom, Sokuy!roflmao3::roflmao3:
Remember "Sigheh" people.

Sokuy30

09-08-2008, 07:39 AM

And I have to believe you? You ran away from Iran and you're telling me your father fought in the war? If that's realy true, tell us the crimes the MKO did to the iranian people, or does it hurt you when you say something bad about Munafiqien Khalq?

90% of the iranians who ran away from their country are MKO-lovers and the reason they left Iran was because of the islam and Khomeini.

The true Iranian people didn't leave their country, look at your self you have two faces, really pathetic.
Gilgamesh, i really don't want to hear you or your kinds!
Don't let me delete you and your useless posts.:teacher3:
Just look at it this way, I stroked the key about 50 or more, it is easier to silence you!:biggrin1:

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:40 AM

Gilgamesh, i really don't want to hear you or your kinds!
Don't let me delete you and your useless posts.:teacher3:
Just look at it this way, I stroked the key about 50 or more, it is easier to silence you!:biggrin1:
dont worry, i will slap him down. he is just a little arab sand blaster :roflmao3::roflmao3:

Gilgamesh

09-08-2008, 07:43 AM

I can PM you if you want pictures of my father during the war :)

Nobody believes you. Everyone can post pictures of the iraq-iran war.

Well i am not MKO member and i had several fight with Iranian MKO here. to be honest we dont consider them as iranians but as ''Iraqis''

If you hate the MKO-members, why don't you tell us their crimes to the iranian people? And Why did you ran away from your "great nation"?:lol3:

to be honest we dont consider them as iranians but as ''Iraqis''

What did I tell you, you have two faces, because that's what you said: "MKO are Iranians, they are a different story "

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:45 AM

Nobody believes you. Everyone can post pictures of the iraq-iran war.

you little arab doesnt need to teach me who i am :teacher3:

If you hate the MKO-members, why don't you tell us their crimes to the iranian people? And Why did you ran away from your "great nation"?:lol3:

post source that i run away or are you making things up ?:roflmao3:
southern iraq is in hands of IRGC :roflmao3:

What did I tell you, you have two faces, because that's what you said: "MKO are Iranians, they are a different story "
i dont care about you. to be honest. i hate all arabs and i dont like them.
the islamist arabs are better people

Sokuy30

09-08-2008, 07:46 AM

Leave him alone, I think "ban" pills didn't work on him.
I think I have to give him some "Sharbat". Iraqis don't swallow pills that well!:roflmao3::roflmao3::biggrin1:

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:46 AM

Leave him alone, I think "ban" pills didn't work on him.
I think I have to give him some "Sharbat". Iraqis don't swallow pills that well!:roflmao3::roflmao3::biggrin1:

he cant diss my country, i will slap that arab sand blaster :roflmao3: :teacher3:

Gilgamesh

09-08-2008, 07:50 AM

post source that i run away or are you making things up ?:roflmao3:

So you're saying you didn't ran away from Iran? You don't live in Iran, so how can it be that you guys didn't ran away?

i dont care about you. to be honest. i hate all arabs and i dont like them.
the islamist arabs are better people

First you say: "i hate all arabs and i dont like them"
Than you say: "the islamist arabs are better people"

That's realy contradictory, don't you think?:lol3:

Sokuy30

09-08-2008, 07:51 AM

he cant diss my country, i will slap that arab sand blaster :roflmao3: :teacher3:
He is not Dissing! He owes his his existance to Iran.
"Fetr" & "Zakat" kid.:teacher3: son of tasbih froush in Ghom.:biggrin1:

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:53 AM

So you're saying you didn't ran away from Iran? You don't live in Iran, so how can it be that you guys didn't ran away?

khaye haye irani ha toye dahane arabet kesafat :teacher3:

hmmm run away how ? i can visit my country any time i want

First you say: "i hate all arabs and i dont like them"
Than you say: "the islamist arabs are better people"

That's realy contradictory, don't you think?:lol3:

:roflmao3: you little kid
i am talking about the islamist like hezbollah who are ally of iran.
regular arabs and pan arabs are disgusting
hamas and hezbollah are good people

Sokuy30

09-08-2008, 07:53 AM

OK, He is not getting It.
3 days!

Iranian Guards

09-08-2008, 07:58 AM

People like you are born in Europe and they claim to be iranians, How did it come you're parrents emigrated to europe?

:roflmao3: are you fozool you little arab sandblaster? get a life, go to a arab forum :roflmao3:

You said : "I hate all arabs" Hezbollah and Hamas are arabs:lol3:

IG : ''the islamist arabs are better people''

open your ugly arab eyes and read it :teacher3:

@@@@@!

09-21-2008, 11:11 PM

excellent footage of Iran Iraq war for the first time

never seen before at

www.iribnews.com

need to be downloaded

@@@@@!

09-22-2008, 11:33 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXfs3TdbJBE&feature=related

he was in liberation of khoramshahr

@@@@@!

09-26-2008, 10:50 PM

سردارغلامعلي رشيد در گفتگو با فارس(بخش پاياني

at the start of war Iraq had 15 divisions of which 7 were armory and mechanized

iran had 8 divisions which was increased to 10

at the end of the war iraq had 60 divisions iran had 10 plus 12 IRGC divisions

a total of 22 divisions ...

براي عمليات سرنوشت ساز متناسب با هدف هزينه نكرديم

خبرگزاري فارس: ما مي گفتيم شما مي خواهيد عمليات بزرگ و سرنوشت سازي را در اختيار بگيريد و ما موفق شويم اما قائل به هزينه كردن به حد كفايت نيستيد. يعني تناسبي بين امكانات مورد نياز و هدف نبود.

*فارس :اولين ملاقاتي كه از نزديك امام را ديد مربوط به چه سالي است؟

* غلامعلي رشيد:اولين ملاقاتي كه از نزديك امام را ديدم و دست او را بوسيدم و گزارش 5 دقيقه اي دادم تير ماه سال 60 بود يعني بعد از عزل و فرار بني صدر و اجراي يك عمليات در جبهه دار خوين بنام "فرمانده كل قوا، امام خميني روح خدا".
شعف و شوري كه رزمندگان از عزل بني صدر در 21 خرداد1360 پيدا كردند به قدري خوشحال شدند كه 48 ساعت بعد در 23 خرداد اين عمليات را انجام داديم و 2 كيلومتر پيشروي كرديم و به سمت پلهايي كه دشمن در شرق كارون، در شمال آبادان داشت و آبادان را محاصره كرده بود رفتيم.
من به همراه جمعي از مسئولين عمليات به تهران آمده بوديم و آن روز در شوراي سپاه نيز بوديم كه به من گفتند يك گزارش 5 دقيقه اي خدمت امام بدهيد.
من صحبت مي كردم و با لحجه خوزستاني خودم مي گفتم: "اُبدان".
يك دفعه امام فرمودند: چي؟ و من گفتم: آبادان و امام سر خود را به علامت تأييد تكان دادند و ادامه گزارش را دادم.

*فارس :شرايط جبهه هاي نبرد پس از عزل بني صدر چه شكلي به خود مي گيرد و آيا ما از بن بست موجود رهايي مي يابيم؟

* غلامعلي رشيد: فرماندهان سپاه كه آرام آرام 6-5 ماه از جنگ گذشته بود به اين فكر افتادند كه كاري براي شكست بن بست جنگ انجام دهند چون ديگر نه فرمانده كل قوا (بني صدر) دم از تعرض مي زد و نه ارتش چون ارتش هم 4 عمليات خود را انجام داده بود و نتيجه اي حاصل نشده بود و از طرفي مي ديديم كه امام اصل را بر جنگ كردن گذاشتند يعني سياست كلي نظامي بود كه مي فرمودند بايد بجنگيد و دشمن رابيرون كنيد و اين سرزمين هاي اشغالي را باز پس گيري كنيد و حصر آبادان بايد شكسته شود و خرمشهر و ساير نقاط اشغالي بايد بازپس گرفته شود.
يك تفكر و استراتژي جديد نياز بود. يك جلسة چند ساعته با شهيد حسن باقري و برادر رحيم صفوي و محسن رضايي گرفتيم كه حسن باقري در دفترچه يادداشت خود نتيجه جلسه را نوشته است كه "بايد استراتژي جنگ را تغيير داد" و بعد نكاتي نوشته است و ما به اين نتيجه رسيديم كه اگر نمي توانيم روز بجنگيم، شب مي جنگيم و به فرمايش شهيد مهدي باكري كه مي گويد: شب بهترين زرهي است كه خداوند به ما داده است و دشمن ما را نمي بيند و لذا مي توانيم در شب بجنگيم.
وقتي ما مي توانستيم با غافلگيري به دشمن حمله كنيم براي چه آتش تهيه بريزيم؟ نمي ريزيم تا به خط مقدم او نزديك شويم و بعد حمله مي كنيم.
شناسايي مي كنيم و در ميدان مين، معبر باز مي كنيم. نبايد منتظر ابزاري بمانيم كه ميدان مين را براي ما بكوبد مثل مين كوب و اژدر بنگال كه ارتش هاي كلاسيك داشتند. ما گفتيم معبر باز مي كنيم و شب هنگام يك نفر از ما به اين ميدان مين نزديك مي شود و معبري را به عرض 2 متر باز مي كنيم به اين صورت كه چاشني مين ها را باز مي كرديم و دوباره مين را سر جايش مي گذاشتيم كه دشمن نفهمد كه ما اين معبر را باز كرده ايم تا شب حمله بتوانيم از اين مين ها عبور كنيم.
يك فردي از بچه هاي اصفهان در دارخوين داشتيم كه آن قدر روي معبر مين كار مي كرد كه نگهبان عراقي ها را مي شناخت موقعي كه حمله كرديم و خاكريز را گرفتيم مي گفت اين فردي كه كشته شده است همان نگهباني است كه هر شب او را مي ديدم يعني آن قدر آرام آرام معبر مين را باز كرده بود كه دشمن متوجه نشده بود.
در اين مرحله اصول و دكترين عملياتي ما اين است كه بايد از امام براي جنگيدن الهام بگيريم و بايد در روش هاي جنگمان تجديد نظر كنيم، هم در استراتژي و هم در تاكتيك. جذب نيروي بسيجي بايد بصورت گسترده صورت گيرد و نيروي ارتش ما كافي نيست و سرباز انگيزة نيروهاي بسيجي را ندارد.
راه كارهايي را بايد در نظر مي گرفتيم كه براي دشمن غير قابل تصور و پيش بيني باشد چرا كه هر دشمني از نقاط ضعفش ضربه مي خورد.
حزب ا... لبنان نيز در جنگ خود در جائي به دشمن خود ضربه زد كه دشمن تصور نمي كرد وگرنه آيا مي توان گفت كه ارتش اسرائيل شكست خورد و 1000 تانك و 500 فروند هواپيما و100 فروند هلي كوپتر از دست داد؟ خير، ارتش اسرائيل سرجاي خود است اما سيلي هايي از حزب ا... خورد كه تصور آن را نمي كرد مثلاً دو ناو از دست داد.
ما مي گفتيم دشمن در جسر نادري مي داند كه از اينجا حمله مي كنيم يعني از جادة آسفالته اي كه به سمت دشت عباس و عين خودش و دهلران مي رود بنابراين ما از جائي به او حمله مي كنيم كه نمي داند و تصور نمي كند يعني از بالاي دشت عباس و از پشت ارتفاعات ميشداغ كه دشمن بررسي كرده بود كه از اين ارتفاعات حداكثر يك گروهان مي تواند عبور كند اما ما با دو لشكر از اينجا سرازير شديم.
دشمن رمل ها را ديده بود و فرمانده تيپ آنها گفته بود امكان ندارد ايراني ها بتوانند از اينجا عبور كنند ولي شهيد باكري به همراه 2 گردان پياده و مكانيزه حركت كرد و پشت نيروهاي دشمن سر درآورد. اين فرمانده تيپ (سرهنگ نزار) تا پايان جنگ اسير بود و مي گفت: شهيد كاظمي و شهيد باكري با هلي كوپتر نيرو پشت سر ما پياده كرده اند و اصلاً تصور نمي كرد كه 2 گردان حركت كرده و از رمل ها گذشته است و اين راه كارها غيرقابل تصور بود.
كم كم اين تفكر جديد دفاعي شكل گرفت و مبناي كار ما شد كه عمليات كوچك انجام دهيم چون تكليف ما جنگيدن بود. گفتيم هر كسي عمليات كوچكي در ذهن دارد طرح كند. اولين عمليات را آقاي عزيز جعفري در غرب سوسنگرد طرح كرد و گفت: مي توانيم به يك گردان مكانيزه عراق حمله كنيم كه طرح او را نيز "امام مهدي(عج)" نام نهادند كه در تاريخ 26 اسفند 59 بود. طرح او را برسي كرديم و به بچه هاي ارتش گفتيم كه آيا پشتيباني آتش توپخانه را به ما مي دهيد؟
كه آنها گفتند: بله ولي حمله كنندگان آن بچه هاي سپاه و بسيج بودند. حمله كردند و موفق شدند و در حدود 70 اسير گرفتند و چند گردان را منهدم كردند و همين طور عمليات ها صورت گرفت.
ارتفاعات "الله اكبر"، ارتفاعاتي است كه در شمال رودخانة كرخه و شمال سوسنگرد است و نسبت به دشت خوزستان مثل كوهي است و 160-150متر از زمين ارتفاع دارد.
فرمانده اي لشكر92 كه بعداً عوض گرديد به بني صدر مي گفت: فتح اين ارتفاعات سلاح هسته اي تاكتيكي مي خواهد چون انبوه ميدان مين دارد ولي شهيد چمران با 3 گردان و ارتش هم 3 گردان گذاشت و ما هم 3 گردان گذاشتيم يعني جمعاً 9 گردان مشترك عمل كرديم و ارتفاعات "الله اكبر" ظرف يك شب ساقط گرديد. بني صدر هم آنجا بود و از شدت خوشحالي تبريك مي گفت. به بني صدر گفتيم اجازه بدهيد ارتش و سپاه يكي بشوند چون باز هم مي شود از اين كارها كرد.
ما در طول 6 ماه حدود20 عمليات محدود انجام داديم. يك عملياتي همزمان با عزل بني صدر رخ داد كه رزمندگان اصفهان انجام دادند يعني عمليات "فرمانده كل قوا" در جبهة دارخوئين. در اين عمليات حدود 2 كيلومتر به سمت پل هاي "قُصبه" و"مارد" كه روي رودخانه كارون بود پيش روي داشتيم و دشمن حدوداً 10 دفعه پاتك كرد اما موفق نشد و ما هم زمين گرفتيم و هم حدود 250 نفر اسير و هم اينكه جريان عمليات ها تداوم پيدا كرد و در همه جا روحيه ايجاد گرديد كه مي شود اين گونه عمليات كرد.

*فارس :نقش ارتش و سپاه را در طرحريزي عمليات ها و آزادسازي مناطق اشغالي بيان فرماييد؟

* غلامعلي رشيد: در اين مقطع از جنگ بني صدر رفته و موانع برداشته شده و ارتش و سپاه به هم نزديك شده اند و امام فرماندة جواني همچون شهيد صياد شيرازي را فرماندة نيروي زميني ارتش قرار داده است و آقاي رضائي نيز فرماندة جوان ديگري كه فرمانده كل سپاه شده است كه اين دو به هم نزديك شدند و ما قرارگاهي با دو گروه طرحريزي درست كرديم.اينكه سؤال مي شود طرح عمليات هاي موفق را ارتش داده است يا سپاه، نمي توان اظهار نظر كرد ضمن اينكه مي توان گفت هر دو طرح ريزي كرده اند.
آقاي رضائي يك گروه طرح ريزي داشت و آقاي صياد شيرازي نيز يك گروه طرح ريزي داشت. گروه طرح ريزي شهيد صياد آقاي قويدل و بختياري و شاهان و معين وزيري بودند و گروه طرح ريزي آقاي رضائي من و شهيد باقري و رحيم صفوي و غلامپور و عزيز جعفري بوديم.
ابتدا منطقة نبرد را مشخص مي كردند و بعد هر گروه جداگانه بحث مي كرديم مثلاً بعد از شكست حصرآبادان بحث بود كه ابتدا بستان را بگيريم يا خرمشهر يا منطقه فتح المبين. مثلاً مي گفتيم ابتدا بستان و بعد اين دو گروه طرح ريزي به كار مي پرداختند.
ما متكي بر اطلاعاتمان جو، زمين و دشمن را بررسي مي كرديم و آنها نيز متكي بر اطلاعاتشان جو، زمين و دشمن را بررسي مي كردند. آنها راه كار پيدا مي كردند ما هم راه كار پيدا مي كرديم و نهايتاً در قرارگاه جمع مي شديم و بحث مي كرديم و نظرات را ارائه مي كرديم و استدلال مي كرديم و چند جلسه بحث مي كرديم و خوب كه فرماندهان نظريات ما را مي شنيدند خلوت مي كردند و بعد از يك ساعت يا نيم ساعت طرح عمليات را به ما مي دادند و مي گفتند حركت كنيد.
ممكن بود در برخي از اين عمليات ها نظريات ارتش بيشتر دخالت داده شود و در عمليات ديگري ممكن بود بيشتر نظريات سپاه دخالت داده شود. اين مطلب مثل اين است كه دو تيم داخلي، يك تيم ملي تشكيل بدهند و بروند با يك تيم خارجي مسابقه دهند. حال آيا مي توان گفت اين بردي كه نسبت به تيم خارجي داشته ايم مربوط به بچه هاي استقلال است يا پيروزي؟ خير.
اين دوره كه دورة آزادسازي سرزمين هاي اشغالي است هيچ كس نمي تواند ادعايي بكند، نه ارتش و نه سپاه. بالاخره ما مشترك بوديم و ادغام كرديم. دسته را با دسته ادغام كرديم يعني 27 نفر سپاهي با 27 نفر ارتشي ادغام مي گرديد و يك فرمانده بالاي سر آنها قرار مي گرفت. فرماندهي قرارگاه هاي ما نيز سيستم دو فرماندهي بود. من در كنار شهيد نياكي فرماندة قرارگاه فتح در عمليات بيت المقدس بودم و ما دو نفري فرماندهي مي كرديم. ارتش و سپاه دو فرمانده داشت؛ شهيد صياد و برادر محسن رضائي. كسي نمي تواند بگويد اينها از هنر شهيد صياد بوده است يا هنر آقاي رضائي. ما در اين دوره كه حدود 5/2 سال است مشترك عمل كرديم.
سال اول سپاه و ارتش مستقل مي جنگيدند اما هنوز سپاه در فرماندهي و مديريت هيچ نقشي نداشت چرا كه بني صدر اجازه نمي داد. سپاه در كنار ارتش حدود 40-30 گردان داشت اما فرماندهي مشترك بر جنگ نداشت. سال اول مخصوصاً 6 ماه اول همه چيز در كنترل ارتش بود.
در اينجا بايد بگوئيم كه ارتش چه كرده است و برادران ارتش بايد بگويند كه اين كارها را كرديم و اين اتفاقات افتاد و اين ناكامي ها را داشتيم و هيچ ايرادي هم ندارد و چيزي از آنها كم نمي شود و اينكه سپاه يا ارتش خود را نقد كنند نشانة سر شكستگي آنها نيست.
در دورة مشترك، تمام بچه هاي سپاه و ارتش تحت يك لوا و پرچم بوده اند ولي در دورة سوم كه چهار سال پايان جنگ مي باشد ما از هم جدا مي شويم يعني در سال هاي 64 تا 67 و اصرار سپاه است كه مي گويند ما نمي توانيم با بچه هاي ارتش همراه هم بجنگيم. عمليات ها بسيار سخت و پيچيده شده اند و ما مي خواهيم از يكديگر جدا باشيم و شوراي عالي دفاع به فرماندهي رئيس جمهور وقت ـ مقام معظم رهبري ـ و آقاي هاشمي كه مسئول عالي جنگ است اين مطلب را تصويب مي كنند.
سپاه در اين چهار سال طرح ريزي و فرماندهي در صحنة زمين را خود بر عهد مي گيرد و با كمك توپخانه و هوانيروز ارتش در اكثر عمليات هاي خود نظير فاو، كربلاي 5، والفجر 10 (تصرف حلبچه)موفق مي گردد.

*فارس :به نظر شما تفاوت ساختار فرماندهي ايران و عراق در چه بود و كدام موفق تر است؟

* غلامعلي رشيد: سيستم كشور ما نسبتاً يك سيستم بازي است، امام در رأس آن، رئيس جمهور و نخست وزير و دولت داريم، ارتش داريم، مجلس داريم، سپاه داريم، شورايعالي دفاع داريم ولي آنها اينطور نبودند.صدام خودش رئيس جمهور و نخست وزير و فرمانده كل قوا و رئيس حزب بعث بود خلاصه خودش همه كاره بود و ما در مقابل يك آدم متمركز بايد مي جنگيديم اما اينجا قدرت تقسيم شده بود. امام رهبر بود، فرمانده كل قوا بني صدر بود، رئيس جمهور كه رئيس شورايعالي دفاع است و نخست وزير داريم، ستاد مشترك ارتش داريم اما صدام فرمانده سپاه در صحنه جنگ است و پنج سپاه دارد و يك سيستم متمركز بگونه اي كه تصميم گيري و اجراي آن به سهولت امكان پذير است.
آنها واقعاً در پشت خط و در يگانها كشتار داشتند و كسي كه عقب نشيني مي كرد، كشته مي شد.ولي سيستم جنگ ما داوطلبي بود. ما در جنگ 600 هزار سرباز فراري داشتيم. يك نظام اگر سربازش فرار كند در جنگ مي تواند او را محاكمه كند و قانون اساسي خيلي از كشورها اين اجازه را به آنها مي دهد. در استاديوم آزادي كه مسابقه فوتبال بود مي توانستيم 20 هزار نفر از سربازان فراري را پيدا كنيم.
در سال 63 رفتيم شوراي نگهبان و گفتيم: به سربازها اعلام كنيد كه بيايد سربازي خود را بخريد و اگر هم كسي پول ندارد بيايد جبهه و به جاي دو سال، چهار سال خدمت كنند اما نه در خط مقدم بلكه در پشت جبهه.
گفتند: اين اقدام غير شرعي است. ببينيد چقدر نظام ما رأفت به خرج مي دهد، سربازش فرار مي كند، ما هيچ دورة احتياط را فراخواني نمي كنيم اما عراق سربازان را تا پايان جنگ ترخيص نكرد و سربازي كه سال اول آمد تا آخر جنگ بود و سرباز 8 ساله و 9ساله رفت و همچنين تا 20 دوره را نيز فراخواني كرد.
ما در عمليات كربلاي 5 سرباز عراقي 45 ساله اسير كرديم. گفتيم تو چكاره اي؟
گفت: من راننده لودر شهرداري شهر كربلا هستم. گفتيم: تو چرا آمدي جبهه؟ گفت: من سرباز 20 سال پيشم، من را فراخواني كردند. صدام كاري كرد كه جمعيت و نيروي انساني كشور عراق كه يك سوم ما بود بر ما برتري پيدا كرد! چرا كه اين همه سرباز فراخواني كرده بود و تمامي كشور را به جنگ گرفته بود و كسي آزاد نبود و بسياري از امور داخل كشور را به مصري ها، فلسطيني ها، يميني ها و سوداني ها سپرده بود.

*فارس :ماجراي نامه آقاي محسن رضايي و مسئولين به حضرت امام مبني بر درخواست بودجه و امكانات بيشتر براي ادامه جنگ و در نهايت پذيرش قطعنامه 598 توسط امام چه بوده است؟

* غلامعلي رشيد: من آن نامه را نديدم اما در فضاي تنظيم اين نامه و جنگ بوده ام يعني مي دانستم. آن نامه اي بود كه شايد براي سومين و چهارمين بار مطرح مي گرديد.
از عمليات خيبر تا پايان جنگ آقاي هاشمي به عنوان فرمانده ادامه دهنده عمليات هاي والفجر از سوي حضرت امام حكم گرفت و يك قرارگاه خاتم متشكل از عناصر ارتشي و سپاهي زد كه جنگ را در سطح عالي بين ارتش و سپاه هدايت كند.
نيروي آفندي جنگ از سال 63 به بعد عملاً با سپاه بود يعني به سپاه مي گفتند به عنوان يك نيروي آفند كننده استراتژيك هر سال بايد يك عمليات سرنوشت ساز انجام دهيد.
در سال 63 ما برآورد كرديم و به آقاي هاشمي و حتي مقام معظم رهبري به عنوان رئيس جمهور و رئيس عالي شوراي دفاع عرض كرديم كه با اين ميزان هزينه اي كه نظام جمهوري اسلامي ايران و دولت جمهوري اسلامي ايران به پاي جنگ هزينه مي كند قادر به اتمام جنگ يا همان هدفي كه آقاي هاشمي به صراحت بيان مي كرد كه يك عمليات سرنوشت ساز انجام دهيم و يك امتياز براي پايان جنگ بگيريم، نيستيم.
اين هدفي بود كه آقاي هاشمي از سال 62 تا پايان جنگ تعقيب مي كرد. در مقابل آن امام مي فرمود: "جنگ جنگ تا رفع فتنه در عالم" و رزمندگان هم مي گفتند: "جنگ جنگ تا پيروزي" وليكن فرمانده عالي جنگ (آقاي هاشمي) مي گفت: "جنگ جنگ تا يك عمليات سرنوشت ساز" و مي گفت زمانيكه مسئوليت را از امام گرفتم اين مورد را با امام تمام كردم و با امام ملاقات نزديك كردم و افكار خود را براي امام تشريح كردم و امام تبسم كردند، نه تأييد كردند و نه رد.
ما مي گفتيم: آقاي هاشمي، ما با اين ميزان از امكانات قادر به انجام يك عمليات سرنوشت ساز نيستيم. در فاو و خيبر و بدر و كربلاي 5، كه دو عمليات بسيار سنگين و كوبنده بودند كه دشمن به وحشت افتاد و حتي حاميان صدام به وحشت افتادند به ياد دارم كه كارشناسان روسي و آمريكايي نوشتند كه: اگر به نيرو هاي مسلح ايران اجازه دهيم با رشته عمليات هايي مثل فاو و كربلاي 5 خواهند توانست ارتش عراق را متلاشي كنند.
بنابراين ما چند بار برآورد داديم؛ يكي در سال 64، يكي در سال65 و يكبار هم در سال 66. مرتب برآورد مي داديم كه اگر آن هدف ارزشمند از نظر شما بصره است، با 150 گردان آفندي نمي توان گرفت و ما معتقديم كه ظرفيت به حد كافي درون ملت ايران و دولت ايران وجود دارد كه اگر نيرو هاي دولت و ملت بسيج شوند اين 150 گردان را به 500-400 گردان تبديل مي كنيم.
مي گفتيم صد هزار نيروي بسيجي كفايت نمي كند كه ما با آنها 150 گردان تشكيل دهيم. ما قادريم 400 هزار نفر بسيج كنيم و مردم نيرو مي دهند. ما با 400 -300 هزار نفر مي توانستيم 500 گردان درست كنيم و توپ و تانك و هواپيما از خارج هم نمي خواهيم و همين ميزان امكاناتي كه وزارت دفاع ما مي تواند تهيه كند يعني تفنگ و پوتين و لباس و مهمات مختصر كفايت مي كند.
ما با 500 گردان از يك محور حمله نمي كنيم، بلكه از 3 محور حمله مي كنيم چون دشمن بسيار ارتقاء پيدا كرده بود. قدرت او از 15 لشكر در ابتداي جنگ، به60 لشكر (در سال 66) تبديل شده بود.
ارتش عراق 7 لشكر زرهي و مكانيزه داشت كه اين 7 لشكر زرهي را حتي اسرائيل و هند و آلمان و فرانسه نداشتند و تنها ورشو و ناتو جمعاً اين ميزان داشتند از بس به او كمك مي كردند.
ارتش ما 8 لشكر داشت كه آن را به 10-11 لشكر تبديل كرده بوديم و 12 لشكر سپاه هم به كمك آمده بودند و در جمع 22 لشكر داشتيم كه 90 درصد يگانهاي آن پياده بودند. از سال 63 به بعد نيروي ارتش پدافند مي كرد و سپاه بايد آفند مي كرد.
ارتش عراق 300 گردان در خط داشت و 300 گردان هم آزاد داشت و با انبوهي از هواپيما و هلي كوپتر و 10 برابر آتش توپخانه در حاليكه ما به قبضه توپ 130 ميليمتري، در هر 24 ساعت 12 گلوله مي داديم و ارتش عراق 120 گلوله تا 180 گلوله مي داد.
در يادداشت هاي خود كه در جزيره مجنون در عمليات خيبر بودم هست كه براي آقاي رضايي نوشتم: گويي هزاران دهل زن بر دهل مي كوبند يعني در طول 72 ساعت، حدود 2 ميليون گلوله بر سر ما ريختند.
قبضه توپ حدود هزار گلوله كه شليك كند از خط خارج مي شود يعني تجهيزات ارتش عراق در طول اين مدت حدود 7 بار نو شد.
ما مي گفتيم اين ميزان هزينه كردن امكان ندارد. شما مي خواهيد چيز بزرگ و مهمي بنام عمليات سرنوشت ساز در اختيار بگيريد و ما موفق شويم اما قائل به هزينه كردن به حد كفايت نيستيد يعني تناسبي بين امكانات مورد نياز و هدف نبود و اين جريان به سمتي پيش رفت كه دشمن در 28 فروردين سال 67 براي دومين بار به ما آفند كرد.
دشمن 2 بار در طول جنگ به ما آفند كرد؛ يكي ابتداي جنگ در حد 2-3 هفته و يكي هم پايان جنگ. ما در طول 8 سال جنگ تحميلي 90 بار بر دشمن تاختيم كه حدود 20 بار درون خاك خودمان بود و 70 بار درون خاك عراق بود و ما مدام آفند مي كرديم.
البته اجماع جهاني براي پايان جنگ رخ داده بود يعني ابر قدرت ها به صدام گفته بودند هرچه مي خواهي غير از سلاح هسته اي به تو مي دهيم اما جنگ را تمام كن و عراق وقتي از حالت دفاعي خارج شد، با تجهيزات بسيار و سلاح شيميايي حمله كرد. فاو و كربلاي 5 (شلمچه) و جزاير مجنون را گرفت.
اينجا به آقاي هاشمي گفتيم شما به عنوان فرمانده عالي جنگ اختيارات كافي نداريد. پيشنهاد داديم كه اختيارات كافي در حد جانشين فرماندهي كل قوا يعني همان اختياراتي كه بني صدر داشت بگيريد تا نيازمندي هاي جبهه جنگ را فراهم كنيد و به ارتش و سپاه دستورات جامعي بدهيد كه ايشان قبول كردند كه منجر به حكمي به نام "جانشيني فرمانده كل قوا" شد.
در خرداد ماه 67 آقاي هاشمي به عنوان جانشين فرمانده كل قوا به نزد فرماندهان سپاه آمد و گفت: من جانشين فرمانده كل قوا هستم، شما چه مطالباتي داريد؟ هر آنچه براي انجام يك عمليات سرنوشت ساز و پايان دادن به جنگ مطالبه مي كنيد روي كاغذ بياوريد و من مي خواهم خدمت امام بروم و مسائل را مطرح كنم و تصميم خودمان را بگيريم.بنابراين آقاي رضائي خودشان مستقلاً آن نامه را ننوشتند بلكه آقاي هاشمي به عنوان جانشين فرماندة كل قوا گفتند كه آقاي رضائي شما چون مسئول سپاه هستيد و در حال آفند هستيد و طرح هاي آفندي هم به عهده شماست هر آنچه براي آفندها و كارهاي بزرگ مي خواهيد، بنويسيد.
آقاي رضايي هم نامه اي مي نويسد و درون آن نامه امكاناتي كه بايد آماده كنيم و موجب شكست دشمن شود را در آن مي نويسد كه كم و بيش در فضاي آن درخواستها بوديم اما اينكه 20-10 نفر بنشينيم و نامه را تنظيم كنيم اينگونه نبوده است. آقاي هاشمي همواره مي گفتند كه من به دنبال اين بودم كه يك جاي ارزشمند را از سرزمين عراق تصرف كنيم و امتياز بزرگي بگيريم و به جنگ خاتمه دهيم كه آن جاي ارزشمند را بصره و ام القصر و كركوك مي دانستند ولي ما مي گفتيم با وضع موجود نمي توان اينها را گرفت و اينها يك نامه شد اما در آن نامه چيزهاي ما فوق قدرت ايران نيست.
البته آقاي هاشمي نامه اي هم از رئيس برنامه و بودجه دولت مير حسين موسوي مي گيرد كه وضعيت بد اقتصاد كشور در آن تشريح مي شود و يك نامه از بخش فرهنگي مي گيرد و احتمالاً يك نامه يا تحليل سياسي هم از سياست خارجه مي گيرد يعني با 4 دسته تحليل خدمت امام مي رسد؛ تحليل نظامي و سياسي و اقتصادي و فرهنگي و هر 4 تحليل مي گفتند: ادامه جنگ سخت است و آقاي هاشمي مي خواست اتمام و پايان جنگ را به نتيجه برساند.
امام وقتي اين 4 تحليل را گوش مي كنند در پذيرش قطعنامه به آن اشاره مي كنند و مي گويد: حال كه مسئولين سياسي اين را مي گويند و مسئولين فرهنگي اين را مي گويند كه مردم روحيه جنگ ندارند و مسئولين اقتصادي كشور كشش ادامه جنگ را ندارند و حال كه مسئولين نظامي و از جمله فرمانده كل سپاه كه يكي از معدود فرماندهاني است كه قائل به ادامه جنگ است او هم مي گويد اين مشكلات پيش روي ماست و با توجه به اينكه دشمن شيميايي به كار برده است، قطعنامه را مي پذيرم.
يعني آقاي هاشمي مي گويد تمام مسئولين سياسي، فرهنگي، نظامي و دولتي مي گويند امكان ادامة جنگ وجود ندارد و امام هم قطعنامه را مي پذيرند.

*فارس :آيا شما هم معتقديد كه اين جنگ چيزي به نام جعبه سياه دارد و تنها عده اي خاص از آن با خبرند؟

* غلامعلي رشيد: اينكه آقاي رضايي مي گويند جعبه سياه جنگ، منظورشان ناگفته هاي جنگ است. نمي گوئيم اگر آن ناگفته ها فاش شود وضعيت ايران عوض مي شود وليكن نكاتي هست كه تاكنون گفته نشده است .آقاي رضايي معتقدند كه روزي بايد ناگفته هاي جنگ را بگوئيم و امام هم در پذيرش قطعنامه و نامه هاي آخر اين وعده را داده كه روزي تمام اين مسائل بايد باز شود. ناگفته هايي وجود دارد اما من عنوان جعبة سياه را به كار نمي گيرم.

*فارس :آيا اين ناگفته ها به نفع انقلاب است؟

* غلامعلي رشيد: بستگي دارد با چه نيت و رويكردي با آن برخورد كنيم. من اكنون مي توانم به شكل ديگري از سپاه و ارتش صحبت كنم و اين بستگي دارد كه با چه رويكردي از اين ناگفته ها پرده برداريم. اگر به خاطر تجربه و تربيت نسل فعلي سپاه و ارتش و نسل آينده باشد خوب است و ملاحظاتي دارد كه آنها را بايد رعايت كنيم و تمام افراد بايد كنار هم باشند نه اينكه چند نفر ناگفته اي را عليه چند نفر ديگر بگوييد.به نظر من آقاي مير حسين موسوي و ولايتي و خود مقام معظم رهبري و آقاي هاشمي و رضائي بايد كنار هم بنشينند و ناگفته ها را با ملاحظاتي بيان كنند.

*فارس :با تشكر از اينكه وقت خود را در اختيار ما قرار داديد.

ويژه نامه فارس در هفته دفاع مقدس

انتهاي پيام/

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09-27-2008, 09:12 PM

مشروح گفنگو با امير سرتيپ عبدالرحيم موسوی بمناسبت سالگرد دفاع مقدس و وضعيت کنونی ارتش جمهوری اسلامی ايران

در آخرين روز از هفته دفاع مقدس قرار داريم و امسال نيز همچون هر سال با مرور مستندات صوتي، تصويري و نوشتاري ياد و خاطره 8 سال دفاع مقدس در دل*ها زنده شد. اگرچه همواره در بررسي تاريخچه دفاع مقدس از ارتش و سپاه به عنوان اصلي*ترين محورها ياد مي*شود، اما جانشين فرمانده كل ارتش معتقد است جنگ را تمام ملت ايران و در كنار هم اداره كردند.

امير سرتيپ عبدالرحيم موسوي در گفتگو با جام*جم تاكيد دارد كه بايد از نيروهايي چون جهاد سازندگي، ژاندارمري و كميته كه بعدها در تغيير و تحولات سازمان*ها در بخش*هاي ديگر ادغام شدند به عنوان نيروهاي بسيار تاثيرگذار در جنگ ياد شود. وي در اين گفتگو اگرچه بخشي از عمليات*هاي موفق ارتش را يادآوري مي*كند، اما معتقد است نيروهاي كشور هرگاه در كنار هم حضور داشته*اند موفقيت*هاي چشمگيرتري داشته*اند. مشروح اين گفتگو را مي*خوانيد.

ابتدا خوب است براي شروع صحبت زمينه*هاي بروز جنگ تحميلي را مروري كنيم. رژيم بعث عراق با چه انگيزه*اي تصميم گرفت به ايران حمله كند؟

در اين زمينه تاكنون* صحبت*هاي فراواني شده است. ما از يك طرف با انقلاب مواجه بوديم و پايگاه استكبار در كشور ما جاي خود را به پايگاه اسلامي داده بود. از طرفي خوي تجاوزگري صدام و خيال باطل رهبري جهان عرب و روحيات جنايتگرانه*اي كه اين فرد داشت باعث شد تا با مشاهده شرايط به فكر حمله به ايران بيفتد.

در جمهوري اسلامي ايران هم با توجه به انقلاب و قرار داشتن در وضعيت انتقال قدرت طبيعي بود كه خيلي از سازمان*ها از جمله نيروهاي مسلح شكل طبيعي ومنسجم خود را نداشتند. بسياري از سران ارتش وابسته به رژيم گذشته بودند كه پس از انقلاب تقريبا تمام آنها پاكسازي شدند. مساله ديگري كه وجود داشت اين بود كه خيلي*ها به نحوه اداره ارتش آشنا نبودند. مثلا اگر به لغو بسياري از خريدهاي تجهيزاتي در آن زمان بنگريم اگر نخواهيم آنها را خائنانه بناميم حداقل مي*توانيم بگوييم كه با دانايي انجام نشدند يا مثلا كم كردن ناگهاني مدت سربازي باعث شد تمام پادگان*ها تخليه شود كه باعث افزوده شدن مشكلات نيروهاي مسلح شد.

مساله ديگري كه در آن زمان وجود داشت برداشت اشتباه از قضيه مردم*داري و مردمي بودن بود.

مثلا بسياري از كارشناسان و افراد متخصص در برخي زمينه*ها با عنوان اين كه مي**خواستند با خانواده*شان و در محل اقامت خانواده*شان باشند از خدمت مرخص شدند.

در كنار اين مسائل درگيري*هاي داخلي در كشور باعث شد كه صدام زمان را براي رسيدن به آرزوهاي ديوانه*وار خود مناسب ببيند و به ايران حمله كند.

الان وقتي به تاريخچه جنگ نگاه مي*كنيم انديشه*هاي صدام در آغاز جنگ ناشي از تصورات غلطي بود كه وي از اوضاع داخلي كشور داشت، اما نيروهاي مسلح جمهوري اسلامي ايران با فداكاري مانع از تحقق اين انديشه شدند. در همين زمينه مي*توان به 48 هزار شهيد ارتش در جنگ تحميلي اشاره كرد كه با نثار خون خود زمينه*اي را فراهم كردند كه رزمندگان اسلام بتوانند اولا جلوي پيشروي دشمن را بگيرند و سپس آنها را به پشت*مرز برانند. الان وقتي مستندات دفاع مقدس را بررسي مي*كنيم ملاحظه مي*شود كه ما تنها با عراق نمي*جنگيديم بلكه مجموعه*اي از كشورها با حمايت*هاي بي*دريغ خود از صدام علنا وارد جنگ با ايران شده بودند. ولي در مقابل آنها يك ملت به ظاهر تنها با توكل به خدا و با يك رهبري بي*نظير تاريخي دست به دست هم دادند و توانستند حقانيت نظام مقدس جمهوري اسلامي ايران را به جهانيان ثابت كنند و براي اولين*بار در تاريخ تجاوزات صورت گرفته به ايران حتي يك وجب از خاك كشور در اشغال دشمن باقي نماند.

نيروهاي مسلح در كشور ما از دو بخش ارتش و سپاه تشكيل مي*شوند. آيا در جريان دفاع مقدس مي*توان ميان اين دو نيرو تفكيك قائل شد. اگر چنين بود، نقش كداميك پررنگ*تر بود؟

براي پاسخ به اين سوال ابتدا مي*خواهم كمي از بالاتر به قضيه نگاه كنم. نسل امروز ما بايد اين مساله را بداند كه جنگ، تنها مربوط به دو سازمان ارتش و سپاه نيست.

اگر عده بسيار قليلي كه كاملا خود را از جنگ كنار كشيده بودند كنار بگذاريم مي*توانيم بگوييم كه جنگ را ملت اداره كردند و به پيش بردند.

حتي اگر به نيروهايي كه رسما در ميدان نبرد حضور داشتند نگاه كنيم مي*بينيم كه همه آنها ارتشي يا سپاهي نبودند. مثلا گروه پارتيزاني شهيد چمران در منطقه دهلاويه و سوسنگرد نيروهاي بسيار كارآمدي بودند و يا گروه فدائيان اسلام در منطقه خوزستان فعاليت*هاي بسيار خوبي داشتند. افراد ديگري بودند كه عضو هيچ سازماني نبودند و با تجهيزات شخصي خود به جنگ آمده بودند. يا در غرب كشور در اوايل جنگ اگر نگوييم نقش مردم عادي بيشتر از ارتش بود كمتر هم نبود.

يعني در ابتداي جنگ ما سازماندهي نبرد نداشتيم؟

اگر صريح بخواهيم بگوييم بايد بگويم نه كه البته توضيحاتي را بايد در اين خصوص عرض كنم.

در ابتداي جنگ 5 تيپ زرهي و مكانيزه عراق براي اشغال دزفول به محور شر*هاني و پل كرخه و عين*خوش حمله كردند و در آنجا فقط گروه رزمي 37 زرهي (كه الان شده تيپ 37 زرهي) و گروه رزمي 138 ماموريت تاميني در آن منطقه را بر عهده داشتند كه البته تيپ 2 لشكر 92 هم بعدا به آنها افزوده شدند. اگر ما بخواهيم كل اين نيروها را جمع بزنيم در حدود 4 يا 5 گردان بودند و اين نيروها در مقابل 5 تيپ زرهي و مكانيزه كه براي اشغال دزفول آماده شده بودند 6 روز تمام مقاومت كردند و سرانجام آنها را در غرب كرخه متوقف كردند و سرپل را هم در اين منطقه حفظ كردند كه بعدا همين سرپل به مبدا عمليات فتح*المبين تبديل شد.

اين نيروها در حد خودشان سازماندهي داشتند، اما اين*كه بگوييم تمامي اين نيروها از جاي خاصي يا توسط شخصي خاص هدايت و سازماندهي مي*شدند چنين چيزي نبود و بعدها در طول جنگ سازماندهي*ها شكل گرفت.

حالا كه صحبت از نيروهاي ابتداي جنگ است خوب است از نيروهاي ژاندارمري نيز نام ببريم كه الان ديگر با آن نام كسي آنها را نمي*شناسد و نيروهاي ژاندارمري در آن زمان به*خصوص در جبهه*هاي جنوب بسيار خوب مقاومت كردند و جنگيدند و قرارگاهي كه در منطقه آبادان براي هدايت جنگ وجود داشت توسط سرهنگ فروزان كه در آن زمان فرماندهي ژاندارمري را بر عهده داشت تشكيل شد. زيرا ماموريت دفاع اوليه در آن زمان توسط ژاندارمري و نيروهاي تامين ارتش انجام مي*شد، از ديگر نيروهايي كه در جريان جنگ سهم عمده*اي داشتند و الان به دليل تغيير و تحولاتي كه صورت گرفته است، كمتر از آنها نامي برده مي*شود نيروهاي جهاد سازندگي است و مي*توان به جرات گفت كه نقش اين نيروها كمتر از بسيج، سپاه و ارتش نبود.

اما سازمان جهاد سازندگي در سازمان ديگري ادغام شده و متاسفانه به فراموشي سپرده شده است. به عنوان مثال اگر بخواهيم نقش نيروهاي مختلف در آزادي بستان را بسنجيم، سهم جهاد سازندگي اگر بيشتر از ارتش و سپاه نباشد، كمتر هم نيست؛ زيرا جاده*اي كه توسط اين نيروها احداث شد و باعث شد تا نيروها بتوانند خود را به منطقه برسانند، يكي از معجزات بود.

در كنار فعاليت اين نيروها، حمايت*هاي معنوي كه از سوي مردم انجام مي*شود و رزمندگان مشاهده مي*كردند كه يك پيرزن يا يك دانش*آموز با فرستادن آنچه در توان داشته، تلاش كرده است به جبهه كمك كند، واقعا در معادلات جنگ تاثيرگذار بود.

همه اين مسائل دست به دست يكديگر دادند و توانستند جنگ را به پيروزي برسانند. اين كه امام خميني(ره)* فرمودند خرمشهر را خدا آزاد كرد، اين جمله در مورد تمام جنگ عموميت دارد و همه جنگ را خدا به پيروزي رساند.

دليل آن هم اين بود كه اولا ما در اين جنگ مظلوم واقع شديم و در اين حال همگي يكصدا خدا را فرياد مي*زديم و همه مردم در حدي كه از دستشان برمي*آمد، با يكديگر اتحاد داشتند و هرچه داشتند در راه جنگ اهدا كردند و با اين اوصاف عنايت الهي هم نصيب ما شد و ما پيروز شديم وگرنه اگر الان بنشينيم و تمام عوامل تشكيل*دهنده توان رزمي را از ابتدا تا انتهاي جنگ جمع كنيم و آن را به يك كارشناس كه به فرض از سرنوشت جنگ ايران و عراق بي*خبر است، بدهيم، بديهي است كه مي*گويد ايران در جنگ شكست خواهد خورد.

با وجود صحبت*هاي شما مبني بر اتحاد و نقش همه مردم در جنگ، اما نيروهاي مسلح به عنوان نوك پيكان اين اتحاد، با دشمن درگير بودند. در نبردهايي كه انجام مي*شد، در كدام يك از بخش*هاي زميني، دريايي و هوايي،* ارتش موفق*تر عمل مي*كرد و محوريت كدام عمليات*ها را برعهده داشت؟

ما در نبرد زميني در طول جنگ به*جز يكي دو نمونه، اصلا نمي*توانيم عمليات مستقلي را براي سپاه يا ارتش قائل شويم. بنابراين در نبرد زميني خيلي نبايد دنبال عمليات مستقل بگرديم؛ اما در بخش*هاي دريايي و هوايي، تمام عمليات*ها مستقل بودند كه من مي*خواهم در اينجا به عمليات*هاي موفق كه توسط نيروي هوايي ارتش انجام شد، به طور خلاصه اشاره كنم. اين نكته را هم بگويم كه متاسفانه نيروي هوايي ارتش در جريان جنگ و پس از جنگ مظلوم واقع شد؛ زيرا اكثر خاطراتي كه نقل مي*شود، معمولا در مورد عمليات*هاي زميني است و دليل آن هم اين است كه تعداد زيادي از رزمندگان در اين عمليات*ها حضور داشتند و خاطراتي را از آن دوران به ياد دارند؛ اما در يك عمليات هوايي، تنها يك يا دو نفر در كابين هواپيما حضور داشتند و عمليات را انجام دادند و از آنجايي كه نيروهاي ارتش كمتر خاطراتشان را از جنگ بيان مي*كنند، همان يكي دو نفر هم در مورد آن عمليات صحبت نكرده*اند. البته اين خاصيت ارتش است و ما عادت كرده*ايم كه به عنوان يك برگ برنده به حفاظت اطلاعات بينديشيم و بر همين اساس كمتر از عمليات*هاي نيروي هوايي گفته شده است.

من در اينجا به طور خلاصه به برخي از اين عمليات*ها كه در مهرماه انجام شد، اشاره مي*كنم.

ساعت 2 بعدازظهر 31 شهريور 59 عراق به ايران حمله كرد. 3 ساعت پس از گذشت آغاز جنگ، پايگاه شعيبيه و پايگاه كوت عراق توسط نيروي هوايي كشورمان درهم كوبيده شد. 10 ساعت بعد از آغاز جنگ يعني اولين دقايق بامداد روز اول مهر، عمليات معروف كمان 99**با 140 فروند هواپيما انجام شد. افرادي كه متخصص عمليات هوايي هستند، مي*دانند اين عمليات چه معجزه بزرگي است، زيرا اين هواپيماها از پايگاه*هاي مختلف برخاسته بودند و با وضعيتي كه كشور ما پس از انقلاب با آن درگير بود و سازمان*ها انسجام لازم خود را به دست نياورده بودند، انجام چنين عملياتي واقعا با عنايت خداوند انجام شد. در اين عمليات 600 هزار پوند بمب در بخش*هاي حساس و راهبردي عراق ريخته شد.

Operation Kaman 99 , IRIAF dropped 600,000 lbs on Iraqis
در روز دوم مهر ماه با انجام 30 سورتي پرواز، 71 هزار پوند مهمات برخي از پل*هاي استراتژيك عراق را نابود كرد.

2nd Mehr IRIAF dropped 71,000 lbs bombs doing 30 sorties در تاريخ 3 مهر ماه با انجام 30 سورتي پرواز، با 357**هزار پوند مهمات، پالايشگاه*ها و مركز استخراج و تلمبه*خانه*هاي نفتي عراق بمباران شدند.

3rd of Mehr IRIAF dropped 357,000 lbs bombs doing 30 sorties hitting iraqi oil

refineries

6 مهر ماه عمليات پشتيباني و نجات تيپ 2 زرهي و گروه رزمي 37 و 138 توسط نيروي هوايي ارتش انجام شد و 698 هزار پوند بمب و موشك در آنجا بر روي دشمن ريخته شد.

Rescue operation for the 2nd, 37th and 138th brigades by IRIAF dropped 698,6000

lbs on iraqis

در 14 مهر ماه با انجام 42 سورتي پرواز، با ريختن 132 هزار پوند بمب و مهمات، بنادر استراتژيك و باراندازهاي ساحلي عراق منهدم شد.

Mehr 14th IRIAF dropped 132,000 bombs doing 42 sorties hitting Iraqi ports

در 15 مهر ماه نيروهاي عراقي در ورودي گمرك خرمشهر منهدم شدند و در 24 همان ماه نيز گمرك صفوان عراق درهم كوبيده شد.

15 th of Mehr iraqi forces were destroyed at Khoramshahr custom entrance

and 24 th of mehr iraqi forces were destroyed in iraq Safan custom

در 27 مهر ماه با انجام 367 سورتي پرواز و يك ميليون پوند مهمات، عمليات پشتيباني از قرارگاه اروند و جلوگيري از ورود نيروهاي عراقي به آبادان انجام شد.

27th of Mehr IRIAF dropped 1,000,000 lbs bombs doing 367 sorties preventing Iraqis

from entering Abadan Supporting Arvand HQبه طور خلاصه در 6 ماه اول جنگ، 11 ميليون پوند مهمات در عمليات*هاي مختلف نيروي هوايي بر روي مواضع دشمن ريخته

in brief during first 6 months of war IRIAF dropped 11,000,000 lbs of bombs on

iraqisشد كه علاوه بر ضربه محكم به روحيه دشمن، حركت آنان را نيز بسيار كند كرد و زمينه را براي عمليات*هاي زميني مهيا كرد.

ماموريت دفاع هوايي تاكتيكي از ابتدا تا انتهاي جنگ بر عهده نيروي هوايي ارتش و پدافند بود. عمليات شناسايي هوايي تاكتيكي نيز در طول جنگ بر عهده نيروي هوايي ارتش بود، يعني هر زمان كه فرماندهان نياز به عكس هوايي از يك منطقه داشتند بلافاصله اين امر توسط نيروي هوايي انجام مي*شد.

يكي از عمليات*هاي معروف نيروي هوايي حمله به پايگاه الوليد بود كه فيلم سينمايي آن نيز با عنوان حمله به3 H به نمايش درآمد.

اين عمليات تا جايي كه من اطلاع دارم بي*نظير است. در اين عمليات 8 فروند 4F بعلاوه 3 فروند 5 F و 4 فروند 14F به همراه 4 فروند هواپيماي سوخت*رسان از دو كشور عبور كردند و در نقطه مقابل مرز ايران و عراق، پايگاه الوليد در مرز عراق با اردن را بمباران كردند و در اين عمليات با فروريختن 50 تن بمب، 48 هواپيماي شكاري، ترابري و بالگرد دشمن را منهدم كردند.

during attack on H3 IRIAF dropped 50,000 lbs bombs destroying 50 iraqi fighters bombers helicoptersاگرچه صدماتي كه در اين عمليات به دشمن
وارد شد، بسيار قابل توجه است، اما مهمتر از آن برتري روحي بود كه پس از آن در ايران انجام شد و رژيم بعث را دچار بهت و حيرت نظامي كرد، زيرا عراق در اين عمليات بخشي از توانمندي*هاي جمهوري اسلامي را مشاهده كرد و دانست كه ما توانايي آن را داريم كه تمام خاك اين كشور را طي كنيم و پايگاهي را در نقطه مقابل مرزمان بمباران كنيم.

يكي از اهدافي كه فرماندهان جنگ به دنبال آن هستند، تحميل اراده است و زماني كه يك فرمانده بتواند اراده خود را به دشمن تحميل كند، بخش اعظمي از كارش را انجام داده است. پس از اين عمليات نيز دشمن متوجه شد كه ايران اراده پيروزي در جنگ را دارد و اين مساله در تمام رده*ها تاثيرگذار بود.

در عمليات ثامن*الائمه كه حصر آبادان شكسته شد، 380 تن بمب بر مواضع دشمن ريخته شد و 7 فروند هواپيماي دشمن سرنگون

Samn Ame Operation , breaking the siege of Abadan, IRIAF dropped 380,000 lbs

and shot 7 enemy fighters

شد. عمليات معروف عبور از دايره سرخ پدافند بغداد كه توسط شهيد عباس دوران انجام شد يكي ديگر از عمليات*هاي معروفي است كه توسط نيروي هوايي ارتش صورت گرفت! در عمليات طريق*القدس و آزادسازي بستان، 93

Bostan liberation IRIAF dropped 93,000 lbs bombs and shoting down 19 enemy foghters plus 3 helicopters

تن بمب فروريخته شد و 19 فروند هواپيما و 3 فروند بالگرد دشمن سرنگون شد. در عمليات فتح*المبين 924 تن بمب ريخته و 14فروند هواپيما و 3 فروند بالگرد دشمن سرنگون شد، در عمليات بيت*المقدس نيز 53 هواپيما و 3 بالگرد دشمن منهدم شد.

Operation Clear victory IRIAF dropped 924,000 bombs and shooting down 53 enemy fighters 3 helicopters

در عمليات فاو 550 تن بمب در 270 سورتي پرواز بر روي مواضع دشمن ريخته شد و در اين عمليات نيروي هوايي، 1486 سورتي مراقبت مسلحانه از فاو انجام داد و 22 هواپيماي دشمن در اين عمليات سرنگون شد. در

Operation Fao IRIAF dropped 550,000 lbs bombs doing 1486 CAP sorties shooting 22 enemy fighters

عمليات مرصاد نيز 180 تن بمب و موشك و 120 هزار گلوله از سوي هواپيماهاي نيروي هوايي بر عليه مواضع نيروهاي منافقين شليك شد و در 120 سورتي پرواز حدود 700 دستگاه تانك و نفربر دشمن منهدم شد.

Mersad Operation, destroying MKO, IRIAF dropped 180,000 lbs bombs and 120,000 bullets doing 120 sorties destroying some 700 tanks and APCs

اينها از برجسته*ترين عمليات*هايي بود كه توسط نيروي هوايي به طور مستقل انجام شد. چند عمليات معروف نيز هست كه مشتركا توسط نيروي هوايي و دريايي انجام شد كه معروف*ترين آنها عمليات مرواريد است كه در 7 آذر انجام شد كه تقريبا در اين عمليات نيروي دريايي عراق نابود شد و بعد از آن به جز يكي دو عمليات، نيروي دريايي دشمن عملا فعاليتي نداشت. در عمليات مرواريد كه تقريبا 3 ماه بعد از آغاز جنگ انجام شد، 3 ناوچه موشك*انداز، يك نفربر هزار تني، 3 فروند ناوچه تندرو و 5 جنگنده دشمن نابود شدند كه البته ناوچه قهرمان پيكان جمهوري اسلامي ايران نيز در همان عمليات غرق شد و ناخدا همتي نيز به شهادت رسيد. از ديگر عمليات*هاي مهم و حياتي كه توسط نيروي دريايي و هوايي به صورت مشترك انجام شد عمليات دفاع و حفظ و نگهداري جزاير بويژه خارك بود.

كارشناسان اقتصادي و سياسي و مديران عالي كشور در آن زمان واقفند كه اگر نيروي دريايي و هوايي خارك را حفظ نكرده بودند و كاروان شناورهاي تجاري و نفتكش*ها انجام نمي*گرفت و راه تنفس اقتصادي ما بسته مي*شد چه بلايي بر سر كشور مي*آمد.

بنابراين در طول جنگ مي*توانم بگويم كه همه عمليات*هاي نيروي هوايي ارتش و 95 درصد عمليات*هاي نيروي دريايي كاملا مستقل بود اما در بخش زميني به اعتقاد من عمليات مستقل براي هيچ*يك از نيروها نبود.

امروزه از جنگ*هاي نامتقارن زياد صحبت مي**شود، در اين حوزه ارتش جمهوري اسلامي ايران چه اقداماتي انجام داده است؟

من ابتدا بايد يك توضيح راجع به واژه جنگ*هاي نامتقارن بدهم اين واژه وارداتي است و به نظر من ورود آن به ادبيات جنگ با يك شيطنت همراه است.

زيرا دشمن مي*خواهد با چنين كلماتي، افكار عمومي را بر عليه ما تحريك كند.

هر نيروي مسلح حرفه*اي بايد دو سوال به ظاهر ساده ولي اساسي را از خود بكند يكي اين كه دشمن چگونه مي*جنگد و سوال دوم اين كه ما در مقابل او چگونه بايد بجنگيم. بنابراين تمام بررسي*ها و طراحي*ها براي پاسخ به اين دو سوال انجام مي*شود.

ارتش جمهوري اسلامي ايران هم به حكم حرفه*اي بودن اين كار را انجام مي**دهد و هميشه پاسخ به اين دو سوال را در دستور كار خود قرار داده است.

به نظر من منظور از نبردي كه با عنوان نامتقارن از آن ياد مي*شود جنگي است كه دو طرف از نظر عده و امكانات برابر نيستند. من اگر بخواهم به طور ساده بيان كنم در يك نبرد اين چنيني كه امروزه از آن به عنوان نبرد ناهمطراز نيز ياد مي*شود نيروي مدافع با استفاده از هوش و خلاقيت خودش، توانايي و قابليت بازنگري مجدد ساختارها و چگونه جنگيدن در مقابل نيروي متجاوزي كه از نظر نيرو و امكانات از او بالاتر است را دارد به نحوي كه طوري در مقابل اين دشمن متجاوز مي*ايستد كه رفتارش براي او مسبوق به سابقه نيست.

بنابراين اگر بخواهيم واژه مناسبي براي اين جنگ*ها به كار ببريم مي*توانيم آنها را نبرد خلاقانه همه*جانبه بناميم.

عواملي كه پيروزي و شكست را در جنگ تعيين مي*كنند فقط اندازه نيروي انساني و تجهيزات نيستند.

بلكه عوامل متعدد ديگري نيز هستند كه معدل آنها تعيين*كننده پيروزي يا شكست جنگ است. من به عنوان نفر دوم ارتش و به عنوان كسي كه براي مدتي مسووليت عمليات ارتش را بر عهده داشته با قاطعيت مي*گويم كه معدل توانايي*هاي ما از معدل دشمنانمان بيشتر است و ما در هرگونه نبرد احتمالي پيروز خواهيم بود. بنابراين در هرگونه جنگ احتمالي ما به يك نبرد خلاقانه همه*جانبه دست مي*زنيم.

ظاهرا يك تقسيم كاري ميان ارتش و سپاه براي حفاظت از كيان كشور انجام شده است. در اين چارچوب، وظايف ارتش به چه شكل تعريف شده است؟

در راهبرد تجهيز، سازماندهي و تعيين وظايف، ارتش و سپاه مكمل يكديگر ديده شده*اند، نه موازي هم. قرار نيست كاري را كه ارتش انجام مي*دهد، درست همان كار را سپاه نيز انجام بدهد بنابراين وظايف اين دو سازمان كاملا تشريح و مشخص شده است. با اين حساب اين كه بگوييم ما كارها را تقسيم كرده*ايم و بخشي از كارها را ارتش انجام مي*دهد و بخشي را سپاه، چنين چيزي نيست. بلكه به جاي اين كه بگويم كارها تقسيم شده*اند بهتر است بگوييم وظايف هر سازمان مشخص و تعيين شده*اند. تجربه دفاع مقدس هم به ما نشان داد عمليات*هايي كه همه كارهايشان مشترك انحام شد عنايت خداوند هم به آنها تعلق گرفت و تمام افتخارات برجسته ما مربوط به آن زمان*هاست. تجربه دفاع مقدس به ما مي*گويد كه خودمان را تقسيم نكنيم بلكه وظايفمان را به طور دقيق تعيين كنيم زيرا مكمل يكديگر هستيم.

الان هم در آب*هاي جنوب كشور در خليج فارس سپاه حضور دارد و ارتش نيز حضور دارد و در درياي عمان نيز سپاه و ارتش حضور دارند. در درياي خزر نيز به همين شكل است اما در برخي مناطق براي اين كه بتوانند وحدت فرماندهي را بخوبي اجرا كنند، محوريت*ها را با يكديگر هماهنگ كرده*اند و در هر منطقه*اي محوريت به يك سازمان محول شده است. بنابراين اگر بگوييم كه در بخشي از آب*ها يك سازمان وجود دارد و در بخشي ديگر يك سازمان ديگر، اين تعريف درستي نيست.

بنابراين حضور قدرتمندانه ارتش در آب*هاي جنوب ادامه دارد؟

ارتش و سپاه در كنار يكديگر به صورت مكمل، با تمام قدرت از آب*هاي جنوب دفاع مي*كنند. ما در جنگ تحميلي و همچنين در هرگونه نبرد احتمالي ديگر چيزي به نام ارتش و سپاه مستقل نخواهيم داشت. در حال حاضرطراحي*ها هم مكمل يكديگرند و هرچه براي اين دو سازمان طراحي و ساخته شده به نوعي است كه مكمل يكديگر باشند.

توانمندي*هاي ارتش بخصوص تجهيزات نيروي هوايي از جمله جنگنده*ها تا چه حد بومي و ساخت داخل هستند؟

بخشي از توانمندي*هاي نيروي هوايي در رژه 31شهريور به نمايش گذاشته شد در بخش ساختن تجهيزات بخصوص در مورد جنگنده*ها چند كار انجام شده است. يكي اين كه چند مدل جنگنده ساخته شده است و كار ديگر اين است كه جنگنده*هاي سابق را كه در اختيار داشتيم بقدري تغيير داده*ايم و تجهيزات آنها آنقدر متفاوت شده است كه اگر سازنده اين هواپيماها آنها را ببينند متعجب خواهد شد. اين تغييرات به دو دليل انجام شده است يكي اين كه ما مي*خواسته*ايم آنها را به روز كنيم و دليل ديگر اين بود كه ما مي*خواستيم آنها را به شكلي درآوريم كه عملكرد آنها براي دشمن قابل پيش*بيني نباشد. زيرا اگر آنها مشخصات همه تجهيزات ما را بدانند اين مساله آسيب*پذيري بالايي را براي نيروهاي مسلح ما به وجود خواهد آورد.

اما درخصوص ساخت جنگنده*هاي جديد بايد عرض كنم كه طراحي، مهندسي و توليد آنها تماما بومي است. قطعاتي را كه احتمال مي*دهيم ممكن است در آينده براي تهيه آنها دچار مشكل شويم با هر هزينه*اي كه باشد در داخل توليد مي*كنيم.

زيرا يك بار ما كشورهاي توليدكننده تجهيزات نظامي را آزموده*ايم و مومن از يك سوراخ دوبار گزيده نمي*شود. اما برخي قطعات هست كه همه*جا مي*توان آنها را تهيه كرد و توليد آنها در داخل مقرون به صرفه نيست و به همين علت ما خودمان را معطل ساخت آنها نمي*كنيم و از خارج تهيه مي*كنيم. من وقتي به آمار تجهيزات نگاه مي*كردم ملاحظه كردم كه در سال 87 86 در مجموعه نيروي هوايي و پدافند 44 نوع تجهيزات جديد بومي وارد سيستم كرده*ايم. در نيروي دريايي 42 نوع و در نيروي زميني نيز 23نوع تجهيزات جديد وارد سيستم رزم شده*اند.

ما الان از نظر تجهيزات هيچ مشكلي در دفاع از كشور نداريم و روند طراحي و توليد در عرصه نظامي از نظر سرعت و كيفيت رشد چشمگيري پيدا كرده است.

موضع ارتش در برابر تهديدهايي كه از سوي دشمن در خصوص احتمال حمله نظامي صورت مي*گيرد چيست؟

ارتش همه*چيز را جدي مي*گيرد و هيچ حركتي را به عنوان شوخي نمي*داند. مثلا در مراكز آموزش نظامي مشاهده مي*كنيم كه برخي نيروها كه كم*طاقت*تر هستند از وضعيت خود گلايه مي*كنند و مي*گويند چرا بايد از منطقه*اي كه هرگز در آنجا اتفاقي نيفتاده است محافظت كنيم. ما مي*گوييم ما 99 سال از يك جا محافظت مي*كنيم تا مبادا حتي يك دقيقه در آنجا اتفاقي بيفتد.

بنابراين ما هر حركتي را جدي مي*گيريم و همه عناصر اطلاعاتي ما با تمام حواسي كه در اختيار دارند مراقب تحولات در طرف مقابل هستند و از نظر نگاه ارتش ما كاملا براي يك نبرد آماده*ايم.

اما خارج از محيط نظامي اگر بخواهيم به موضوع بنگريم به اعتقاد من اگر دشمن ما در خودش توانايي حمله و موفقيت در *آن را مي*ديد تا به حال حتما اين اقدام را كرده بود.

اما وقتي اين توانايي را ندارد سعي مي*كند با جنگ رواني و توپ و تشر و تبليغات اهداف خود را پيش ببرد.

مردم ما هم ديگر به اين*گونه مسائل عادت كرده*اند و اين تهديدات را اصلا جدي نمي*گيرند. و ما به مردم اطمينان مي*دهيم كه نيروهاي مسلح با آمادگي كامل براي مواجهه با هر تهديدي ايستاده*اند.

فكر مي*كنم در پايان اگر خاطره*اي ناگفته از روزهاي دفاع مقدس داشته باشيد، براي خوانندگان روزنامه جالب باشد.

خاطره*اي كه در نظر من هست مربوط به خودم نيست اما بسيار شيرين و جذاب است.

در تاريخ 9 مهر 59 عراق با احداث يك پل از كوي ذوالفقاري وارد آبادان مي*شود. تيپ 2 قوچان به فرماندهي امير سرتيپ كهتري در آن زمان در آن منطقه حضور داشتند. امير كهتري به ناجي* آبادان معروف است چرا كه هم در دفاع از اين شهر در تمام عرصه*ها حضور داشت و هم در شكست محاصره اين شهر حضور داشت و آباداني*ها بسيار به او علاقمندند. تكاوران دريايي نيز در اين منطقه در كنار نيروهاي مردمي براي دفاع از آبادان حضور داشتند. در حين عمليات امير كهتري با اصابت يك گلوله به ساق پا، مجروح مي*شود و يك ناوبان يكم تفنگدار دريايي به كمك او مي*رود.

تفنگداران دريايي يك مچ*پيچ باندمانند بر روي پوتين خود مي*بندند و اين ناوبان يكم دريايي، پس از خارج كردن فشنگ از پاي امير كهتري، مچ*پيچ خود را باز مي*كند و به سابق پاي او مي*بندد و جنگ ادامه مي*يابد. اين دو نفر پس از آن روز يكديگر را نمي*بينند تا بيست و يكي دو سال بعد كه آن ناوبان يكم با درجه درياداري براي ديدن امير كهتري به مشهد مي*رود. بعد از كمي صحبت آن دريادار به شوخي سراغ مچ*پيچ خود را از امير كهتري مي*گيرد و تازه امير كهتري متوجه مي*شود كه اين دريادار همان ناوبان يكمي است كه در آن زمان مچ*پيچ خود را به پاي او بسته بود. آن ناوبان يكم در حال حاضر امير دريادار سياري فرمانده نيروي دريايي ارتش جمهوري اسلامي ايران است.

كارنامه جانشين فرمانده كل ارتش*

امير سيدعبدالرحيم موسوي، جانشين فرمانده كل ارتش كه به تازگي با حكمي از سوي حضرت آيت*الله خامنه*اي فرمانده كل قوا در اين سمت منصوب شد، در سال 58 وارد اين نيرو شد و دوره*هاي افسري خود را با موفقيت در دانشگاه افسري امام علي(ع) به پايان رساند.

وي دوره*هاي تخصصي خود را در لشكر 28 كردستان گذراند و در طول 8 سال دفاع مقدس نيز با حضور در اين لشكر و انجام عمليات*هاي موفق در منطقه كردستان، يكي از فرماندهان موفق و غيور ارتش به شمار مي*آمد كه بارها به خاطر اين رشادت*هاي خود مورد تقدير قرار گرفت.

امير موسوي پس از دوران دفاع مقدس با طي دوره*هاي عالي دانشگاه افسري امام علي(ع)، مدتي مسوول عقيدتي سياسي اين دانشگاه و سپس مسووليت*هايي چون فرماندهي تيپ را در نيروي زميني ارتش بر عهده داشت و در زمان غائله طالبان نيز با توجه به حساسيت منطقه به عنوان فرمانده ارشد ارتش در منطقه شمال شرق كشور منصوب شد. وي پس از حضور موفق در شمال شرق كشور به عنوان جانشين معاونت عمليات ارتش منصوب شد و پس از دريافت مدرك دكترا از دانشگاه عالي دفاع ملي به فرماندهي دانشگاه افسري امام علي(ع) ارتش منصوب شد. امير موسوي پس از تصدي مسووليت معاونت طرح و برنامه نيروي زميني ارتش، در سال 84 با حكم رهبر معظم انقلاب به عنوان رئيس ستاد مشترك ارتش منصوب شد و اكنون نيز در مسووليت جانشين فرمانده كل ارتش به خدمت ادامه مي*دهد.

حسين نيك*پور

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09-27-2008, 09:59 PM

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09-27-2008, 10:41 PM

Brigider general Oveisi F5 and F14 pilot engages 3 iraqi mirage f1 shoots down iraqi F1 near Farsi Island and fires a sparrow missile and hits one of the iraqi f1
the pilot ejects and then Oveisi askes for helicopter to capture the pilot

so he starts circling the area and since farsi island is far for a rescue chopper

he asks for a replacement fighter , meanwhile the USN ship which was probably

helping the iraqi attack sends a chopper meanwhile the replacement fighter

captain khalili and rio Barkhor got to the area , the USN chopper was closing

and captain khalili gave him a warning but the USN pilot said this is an international

waters and we want to rescue the pilot , since we have no orders regarding

engaging USN the americans were able to rescue the iraqi pilot ...

later on at Bushehr AFB i was told the second iraqi mirage crashed near kuwait and

the iraqis rescued him at once....

http://www.postimage.org/Pq29OVDi-498baadcb035915c2f8a13aab1e0e43b.jpg

the next engagement in 1987 I shot enemy fighter with a sphoenix missile near kish island