Which fighter is best for Iran

[attitude]

This is a continuation of the poll that got deleted in the downtime
The need for missles in Iran is great but the airforce definetely needs new modern fighters
Please post why you have chosen which particular fighter and how it would benefit the IRIAF
I voted for the Su-30MK

[Roy.cn]

I am posting some pictures of J-10 and FC-1,
please enjoy them...

[masguy]

I voted for the Su-30MK too.

[Soroush]

we need the F-14 big time right now, we can't buy Su-30MK's anytime we want because first the nuclear issue has to be resolved and then we have to work out a deal between Russia to get them. Our best bet is to still focus on reverse engineer program on our F-14's so that we don't have to rely on others to buy with open arms, because the same thing could happen to us again back in 79. Resources are being spent on different projects such as Shafagh and even the Saeqeh series for our military aviation industry, were probably not going to see any foreign jets on iranian soil for a very long time to come.

[Roy.cn]

we need the F-14 big time right now, we can't buy Su-30MK's anytime we want because first the nuclear issue has to be resolved and then we have to work out a deal between Russia to get them. Our best bet is to still focus on reverse engineer program on our F-14's so that we don't have to rely on others to buy with open arms, because the same thing could happen to us again back in 79. Resources are being spent on different projects such as Shafagh and even the Saeqeh series for our military aviation industry, were probably not going to see any foreign jets on iranian soil for a very long time to come.

Don't think so,
In 1990s china bought many Su-27 & Su-30 from Russia for the threat coming from taiwan[U.S.],
So I think your country should try to get weapon from russia,
and try to improve the fighting capabilities of existing arms,
include weapons and soldiers...

[Soroush]

Don't think so,
In 1990s china bought many Su-27 & Su-30 from Russia for the threat coming from taiwan[U.S.],
So I think your country should try to get weapon from russia,
and try to improve the fighting capabilities of existing arms,
include weapons and soldiers...

I could of replied to your post if only it made sense!.

[Roy.cn]

I could of replied to your post if only it made sense!.

I know you are a manager here,
but I really can't understand your meaning above.
As a young man,
I like to enjoying military websit,
and find this forum by google,
so it's my sense!

[Soroush]

I know you are a manager here,
but I really can't understand your meaning above.
As a young man,
I like to enjoying military websit,
and find this forum by google,
so it's my sense!

welcome to the forum by the way. I seen your post and it went like this:

Don't think so,
In 1990s china bought many Su-27 & Su-30 from Russia for the threat coming from taiwan[U.S.],
So I think your country should try to get weapon from russia,
and try to improve the fighting capabilities of existing arms,
include weapons and soldiers...


what you have just said is what I have already replied and said why Iran needs to go for the F-14's instead. China is also going to pull away from Russian arms soon due to their Indegnious projecst for their military. Russian fighters won't be necessary once J-10 comes into service and J-XX is in development; 4.5-5th generation fighter aircraft.

[Tbagger]

F-14, if they can successfully pull it off.

[proudfoot]

Do any of you have any clue about aerospace engineering?

The F-14 is a good plane, but is nearly impossible to maintain. In USAF service, it took 40 HOURS of maintenance for every 1 HOUR of flight.

That is why it was ditched for the F-18.

J-10 is also relatively complex, costing apparently 20-30 million dollars per plane, depending on how nice the Chinese government is. Exercises suggest superiority over the J-11(Chinese upgraded Su-27s) and Su-30MKKs. It is probably too expensive for Iran to maintain though. Especially if, as some posters are suggesting, 80 be purchased. Figures cited by China say 4.2 million dollars a year on maintenance.

JF-17/FC-1 is probably the best bet. This is why. A country which shares the same religion as Iran has full manufacturing rights over it. It is less likely to be denied then the other choices, especially in times of war. It is easy to maintain and robust, compared to the other options. Its radar is relatively weak, due to the small size of the nosecone. This may be a problem, but can be augmented by having AWACs or GCI send targetting information.

It is also simple enough to be be relatively easily reverse engineered, or at least, with the exception of the nosecone. Secondly, China is not shy about helping Iran with projects, and probably is willing to discreetly sell technology about the JF-17.

I don't think anything will be enough to deter the Israeli air force though, if they really want to have a fight.

[stunnerzinc]

The F-14 is a good plane, but is nearly impossible to maintain. In USAF service, it took 40 HOURS of maintenance for every 1 HOUR of flight.
That's pretty much the norm for all planes. Some planes require 100-200 hours of maintenance pre hour of flight. The reason why it was replaced by the F/A-18 is because of the Bugs technological advancements and manuverability. The Super Bug is heavily underrated.

[proudfoot]

The decision to incorporate the Super Hornet and decommission the F-14 is mainly due to high amount of maintenance required to keep the Tomcats operational. On average, an F-14 requires nearly 50 maintenance hours for every flight hour, while the Super Hornet requires five to 10 maintenance hours for every flight hour.

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,88041,00.html?ESRC=navy.nl

Oh really?

[stunnerzinc]

Yeah, really. Besides, I never said that the maintenance wasn't an issue. I was pointing out the F/A-18's technological advancements. It was an economical decision. The F/A-18 is cheaper to maintain. Also, it costs almost as much as an F-14. I didn't disagree with you on that.

The USN replaced the F-14 with the more modern and economical F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in 2006.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-14_Tomcat

[Tbagger]

Yeah, really. Besides, I never said that the maintenance wasn't an issue. I was pointing out the F/A-18's technological advancements. It was an economical decision. The F/A-18 is cheaper to maintain. Also, it costs almost as much as an F-14. I didn't disagree with you on that.
The Navy should have never halted F-14D production. With the Tomcat gone, the Navy has no fleet defense interceptor; and that's the reason why they are developing so many air-defense systems to fill the gap.

[Black_zero]

F-15 ,f-14,F-16 ,J-10,Jf-17,

[attitude]

(SWE)Peacemaker you havent specified what plane you think is best for Iran
Of the list in the poll i have pretty much covered every fighter available to Iran
Which plane do you think they should get that is available for them

[masterfx]

i would say JF-17... simply because is cheap + advanced + reliable + simply to build (if iran wana produce it under license) tats y alot of countries like pakistan are going for them in massive numbers!
http://www.geocities.com/haroon_nadeem/images/ss2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/04/JF-17cockpit.jpg/800px-JF-17cockpit.jpg

[Capricorn Edge]

F-14, if they can successfully pull it off.

Tbagger, why do you think Iranian-built F-14s are good for IRIAF? Those planes are no match for current US fighters like F-15Es, F-16C/Ds, and the F-22A Raptors. I think Iran needs Su-30MK the most with a version with canards. I am a Malaysian and my nation's Air Force bought 18 Su-30MKMs with canards and thrust-vectoring engines and our jets will get Russian PGMs too! So Iran should go for Su-30MKs.

[masterfx]

su-30mk arent as good as u tot it was.... even j-10 could beat it.....

[IRI agent]

suprised not many people have voted for the Migs

[arteshi]

My vote would have gone actually for a combination Su and Mig with thrust vectoring, however Russians seem to give Iranians weapons only when they want to be heard by the US. So next choice would be J10/Fc1 combo. If Iran received tech transfer for this platforms it would probably be able to defend their airspace from states around the Persian Gulf.
What about the Indian Fighter, is that not good? I heard it was full of innovations.

[Rufus86]

Iran must acquire technology in order to produce in the own industries Chinese aircrafts and at the same time to develop some of its.

Tehran would not have to buy from Russia, than reliable one does not seem much like allying.

I wonder because in these years the Iranians have not bought aircrafts... they are producing some of own in amount?

[wadap]

Well that depends on who Iranians are going to consider as their main enemy:

If it is USA, to me it doesn’t matter what sort of airframes Iranian pilots have, because they need an airfield to take off and in the previous experiences that we have seen from American invasions they first attack to airbases with stealth fighters to maintain air superiority. Then even if Iranian pilots are much better than Iraqis still to me it seems just waste of their resource to fly any of their aircrafts. Instead of that they must have much more accurate long range surface to surface missiles that can deliver larger and more destructive warheads in to the targets. That’s why they are not investing on purchasing new aircrafts. Right now Iran’ air force is big enough for dealing with neighboring countries. If Israel’s air force does anything against Iran their territory is badly vulnerable to Shahab missiles and responding them is pretty easy for Iranians.

It seems that Iranians have chosen the proper way, developing their own domestic fighters, keeping their existing airframes updated, refurbished and flyable and at the same time developing their missile programs.

Given the geographical situation of Iran which has long borders with mountains, ground radars are not well enough for covering all the airspace of the country and they must need many radar stations to protect their lands and still there must be some blind spots. A super interceptor fighter which can deliver long-range missiles such as phoenix is the best choice for Iran, as it has been proven in their 8 years war. Iranian F-14s have been able to shut down about 150 Iraqi flying objects while they were not getting enough spare parts and upgrades from US Navy or Grumman. At the same time they just had about 230 rounds of Phoenix missiles and most of the time Tomcats were not able to fire them as their AWG-9 radars was not operable as a result of lack of spare parts, then they mostly were engaging while they had Sidewinders and Sparrows. Then that 150 could be much more if they had enough resources for their Tomcats.

It makes me sick when some people (Like proudfoot) just copy that **** from US navy that it takes 40 hours for Tomcats to be ready to be flyable and 20 hours for Super Hornet! First of all I must remind him that that was US Navy which said that and not USAF as their air force is flying F-15’s and not F-14’s. As I can remember there has been just one air battle for F-18’s and it happened in 1991 in the first Gulf war. The only American fighter which was lost during an air battle was an F-18 which was shut down by an Iraqi Mig-25!!! And not even a Mig-29! That happened while Iraq’s airspace was under control of AWACS’s, F-15’s, F-16’s E-2C’s and so on. Now US navy has decided to use such a useless aircraft instead of F-14. There are some cases in Iran Iraq war that a single shot of Phoenix by an F-14 has downed more than one Iraqi aircraft and interestingly in 1981, a single Phoenix missile brought down three Iraqi Mig-23’s at the same time. Keeping such a fighter with these capabilities which is even a scarecrow for the enemy pilots is expensive but at the same time saves lots of lives. I have never seen anything like this ability in any other fighters that they can shut down more than one fighter with a shut. Using these experiences from Iranian air force Europeans are equipping their Meteor fighter with long range missile instead of AMRAM which Americans are happy with and proud of!

Some say that F-14 was expensive, but amazingly they spend 250-300 million dollars on each F-22 raptor. Even if we consider each Tomcat costing 50 millions (38 is the real cost) can really a raptor do more than 6 Tomcats?! If Tomcats had the chance to be redesigned and get new technology in their new role, nothing could match them as nothing did during 35 years of their service in US Navy. Last Tomcat was built in 1991 or may be 2. Definitely it is hard to keep a 30 years heavy weight old fighter which is flying over the salty oceans. But could it cost the same if those Toms were redesigned with new technology? A newly built and simple F-18 is cheaper to keep but a Tomcat is more capable and flies longer and can deliver (twice) more weapons to the target. The following table shows mission capable rates of F-14-18’s during the second gulf war according to a report called Operation IRAQI FREEDOM By The Numbers - Assessment and Analysis 30 April 2003. This is prepared by USAF. I am wondering if it is really that hard to keep F-14’s flyable how they have been better or as equal as Ground based F-15’s and F-16’s and their useless successor less expensive F-18’s!



•F-15C 82.6%
•F-15E 84.1%
•F-16C+ 73.9%
•F-16CG 84.0%
•FA-18A 79.6%
•FA-18C 87.3%
•FA-18C 87.3%
•FA-18E 89.7%
•FA-18F 91.0%
•F-14A 89.2%
•F-14A/T 98.0%
•F-14D 78.8%

However Iranian’s are doing the wise thing for keeping their Tom’s flyable and they must build an interceptor as capable as F-14.which at the same time has some sort of stealth capabilities although for a long-range engager interceptor that is not a big deal.

[alopes]

Posted by Wadpad
If it is USA, to me it doesn’t matter what sort of airframes Iranian pilots have, because they need an airfield to take off and in the previous experiences that we have seen from American invasions they first attack to airbases with stealth fighters to maintain air superiority

I agree with wadpad in his points.
One thing that i think about air supremacy fighting is that, by facing USA technologies as netcentric sensors, systens and command & Control more stealth planes more cruise missiles and stand of missiles one must also revolutionize his air combat doctrine.
So if i would choose some path of development i would say that.
- First air assets should be cheap to get the benefits of
- saturate air space combat;
- relieve the radar stations from the enemy bombardment (since the enemy bombardment will have to give attention to air combat systens threat);
- the cheaper the air system the greater the number of assets and greater time for the enemy to achieve air dominance;
- the great number of air elements will make possible to attack the enemy ships and bases thus impairing their superiority over the air.
Of course i am talking of UAV and UCAVS.
These UAVS and UCAVS should be cheap and in very big numbers so that they stop the enemy of achieving air superiority.
The UAVS will relieve the ground stations and give them some time to operate against enemy targets.
I think that only when one can challenge USA dominance of the air space, by delayng its progress, there will be a chance of resist some war of aggression
And i think that challenge would come, by cheaper costs, great numbers, and by that given time to land air defense systens to be useful against air targets.
And that callenge systens is UAV and UCAVS interdicting air space.

[SOMALI_SOULJA]

what means safagh, is that the sword of imam ali

[kryp]

iran does not have SU30...

[Cunver_Goadbeiles]

The important things are not the weapons themselves, but the military industrial complex, which is extremely expensive to construct and maintain. Actually, only the USA, the UK and the Russian Federation got their own military industrial complexes at this time.

It could be cheaper to buy weapons from abroad, but always better to have higher production capability than the enemy.

I still believe that adaption of Israeli and American jets could suit Iran well. Don't use antiquities.

[Alex]

doesn't france have military industrial complex?

[Cunver_Goadbeiles]

Yes, France probably have it as well.

There were about 3 or 4 nations in the world that had it. But the French are lagging behind in some areas.

[MrWanted]

what means safagh, is that the sword of imam ali

Shafagh means Dawn, the sword you mentiones is Zulfaghar.

[Alex]

doesn't fajr mean dawn`?

[panzer1029]

If Iran want air superiority over Iranian land and on offensive, Iran need to have Su-35 or Su-37"Terminator" and join co-op in Su-47"berkut" Golden Eagle. Su-30mk is grate but Iran need aircraft that have very highs offence that defense. Su-30mk can be equip with Bramos new anti Ship missile and this will provide anti ship aircraft to Iran mean while su-35 to 37 will provide air superiority over Iran country. Mig-29 should been use for close combat support for infantry and amour group.

[abdou]

I think iran should buy various kinds of fighter jets from su-30MK mig-29smt2
and they HAVe to continue developing their own planes like shafaq and azraksh. IF they can i would advise them to join the su-47 project an get the license to produce infinite numbers of them and make different variantes of it. Who knows they can even start exporting there planes!

i think also they should retire all there old planes like algeria did with their MiG-21's and buy huge amounts of the chinese fighter J-10.

and the Mig-35 and mig-29 ovt are good choices too!!

bb

[Soroush]

Iran should quickly order 500/600 JF-17 Thunders in order ward of Uncle Sam.

we don't like to buy cheap 3rd gen fighters, no thank you.

[PJPM]

iran only needs shafaq or self F-14, it just need to mass produce one. but if i have a choice i would choose shafaq since it's half US and half russian, and some ppl say it's like F-16.

[abdou]

iran only needs shafaq or self F-14, it just need to mass produce one. but if i have a choice i would choose shafaq since it's half US and half russian, and some ppl say it's like F-16.


i do not think shafaq alone is enougth cause it was made based on it being a trainer plane not a fighter wat do yo
u think?

by the way i found his cool page about every single iranian made weapon!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_military_industry#Air_Force_equipment

please enjoy

P.S more info about shafaq check it out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafaq
thanks

[Black_zero]

Iran should quickly order 500/600 JF-17 Thunders in order ward of Uncle Sam.

500/600 hahaha
hey who are you ? troolller

[Sanchezz]

If iran could buy 100 of these SU-30MK it would be a great thing :) so can iran buy this much of these airplanes... they are probably very expensive.

[abdou]

hi

check this link for more info on the Su-30

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30_MK

i think iran can buy hundreds of SU-30 it has the money since it owns the worlds 4th largest oil reseves and one su-30 is worth like US$33-$45 million
so i think they will be able to buy tens of them.

[Soroush]

nows not a good time to buy sukhois or migs. were in alot of heat from our nuclear program to new military equipments. perhaps much later from now though.

[abdou]

hmm. i think the iranians can come up with a secret deal with the russies they are glad to help! but for the right price! iam sure that iran's generals know wat they are doing. who knows they might have signed a deal!

[Alex]

i think iran should just concentrate on produceing it's own aircraft.

[masterfx]

If iran could buy 100 of these SU-30MK it would be a great thing :) so can iran buy this much of these airplanes... they are probably very expensive.
is too expensive......

[abdou]

but for a country like iran do not think so

[PJPM]

self made shafaq or F-14s iran needs to be become more independant it cannot always depends on other nations. also if iran becomes more independant it means less civilian airplane crashes which one happend today. very sad.

[masterfx]

but for a country like iran do not think so
foreign made weapons arent a final solution...

[abdou]

foreign made weapons arent a final solution...

i know but only temporarily, until iran is able to produce a more advanced fighter! no offence guyz but i do not expect a shafaq to go toe-to-toe with an F-22! when and country produces a plane there are bound to be glitches. In addition, the more planes they develope the more experience they gain.

[mohseng]

Do any of you have any clue about aerospace engineering?

The F-14 is a good plane, but is nearly impossible to maintain. In USAF service, it took 40 HOURS of maintenance for every 1 HOUR of flight.

That is why it was ditched for the F-18.

We can't work on quantity so we should invest on quality and recon tools. Fuerthermore, we have enough cheap man-power in Iran unlike the US.

[panzer1029]

F-14 are been made to fullfill the role of interceptor to protect aircraft aircraft carrier from incoming hostile fighter and bomber that might sink the ship. But now days the threat are not have anymore because the fall of USSR. Then the F-14 have been convert to Recon and close air support mission but when they see the cost that have to pay for maintenance and the aircraft are obsolete and are old enough to been upgrade so they stop the aircraft for use in combat anymore. And said to be replace by F-35 JSF navy and marin version.

More info F-14--> http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/f014.html

[SS_Charlemagne]

I've found this in a spanish military forum some weeks ago. Sorry, but I don't have the original source (I'll try to find it). It's a little offtopic, but it's talking about iranian purchasing jets...

Farnborough: First export for Su-25T

Russia's state arms vendor Rosoboronexport has completed deliveries of six Sukhoi Su-25T attack aircraft to Iran. Rosoboronexport deputy general director Ivan Gonchrenko, who headed the organisation's delegation at Farnborough, confirms deliveries have taken place, but refuses to specify the buyer, writes Vladimir Karnozov.

The Su-25T, also referred to as the Su-39, differs from the standard Su-25 in having the Krasnogorsk Optical Plant Zarevo electric-optical sighting system. The Zarevo enables use of laser-beam-riding Vikhr supersonic anti-tank missiles. Rosoboronexport says the Su-25Ts went to the buyer with guided missiles, but refuses to specify the types. It is understood the deal with Iran also included spares and upgrade kits for ex-Iraqi air force Su-25s that were ferried to Iran by Iraqi pilots in 1991.

The Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant, which makes the Su-25T, Su-39 and Su-25UBT, is in negotiations with "local and overseas customers" on assembly of up to a dozen aircraft from previously manufactured parts.

[panzer1029]

this is link that report about Su-25---> http://www.kross.ro/russia_sells_su_25ubt_warplanes_to_iran

[Azarakash]

F-14, if they can successfully pull it off.
Hell no! Iran, if it were a smart nation, should have reversed engineered the MiG-29 Fucrum and incorporate F-14 mini AWAC capabitlities into it. Instead they followed the F/A-18 Hornet and some backwards ideas.

[Spartacus]

Well, I've voted for the Su-30MK. But I like also both Foxhounds and Fulcrums... :D

Iran shouldn't rely too much on foreigners and must produce its indigenous fighter, but the war is truly near. A lot of Sukhois would be needed to counter the enemy's airpower and Russia won't be able to send them soon to Iran. Perhaps the war will begin in some months, thus Iran must invest money in a higher number of SAM and RADARS (S-300, BUK-M1...) because that's more useful actually. If either there isn't war or the nuclear affair calms down, then Iran should purchase some advanced planes to reinforce the IRIAF and reverse engineering them.

P.S. A lot of J-10 and JF-17 would be also an awesome deal for Iran!!!!!

[Azarakash]

The Su-30 is AWESOME I like the 34 & 35 especially.

[Land-Man]

The Wright Brothers plane.

[crod]

The Wright Brothers plane.

mmmm the humour thread is located elsewhere:err2:

[Spartacus]

The Wright Brothers plane.
Here we've another troll, a new agent provocateur in the forum. Follow that path and you won't last too much here...

[Falco]

i clicked "other". because in this list there are not all of the top fighters in the world. think about f22, eurofighter etc. propally the us and europe wont sell military equippment to iran, but these definitely would be better for anyone! ^^

i think the best investment for iran qould be the su 30.
its modern, capable and much less expansive than others.

[KingoftheHill]

i know but only temporarily, until iran is able to produce a more advanced fighter! no offence guyz but i do not expect a shafaq to go toe-to-toe with an F-22! when and country produces a plane there are bound to be glitches. In addition, the more planes they develope the more experience they gain.


Nothing can formally challenge the F-22, maybe the S-400. The F-22 is a step ahead of whats out there right now.

Also you guys Iran could order 100s of advanced Su-30MKs. Iran's profit from oil is around 30 bil. If the Venezuelans got 24 Su-30MKs and 53 Helo's for 3 billion, Iran can negotiate for some advanced fighters. Russia's economy is on the decline, they are desperate to sell their good (weapons, armaments, equipment platforms, etc) for money. Russia sold about 50 Su-33s to China, they will definetly sell some stuff to Iran.

About the person who mentioned the J-11 being better than the Su-27K. Its the same fvking thing! Just that its kit produced in China, the J-11B will be a indeginous version though.

Oh yeah the new Su-25s are getting armed with bunker buster bombs from Mother Russia :)

:wub2:

[SS_Charlemagne]

Nothing can formally challenge the F-22, maybe the S-400. The F-22 is a step ahead of whats out there right now.

Also you guys Iran could order 100s of advanced Su-30MKs. Iran's profit from oil is around 30 bil. If the Venezuelans got 24 Su-30MKs and 53 Helo's for 3 billion, Iran can negotiate for some advanced fighters. Russia's economy is on the decline, they are desperate to sell their good (weapons, armaments, equipment platforms, etc) for money. Russia sold about 50 Su-33s to China, they will definetly sell some stuff to Iran.

About the person who mentioned the J-11 being better than the Su-27K. Its the same fvking thing! Just that its kit produced in China, the J-11B will be a indeginous version though.

Oh yeah the new Su-25s are getting armed with bunker buster bombs from Mother Russia :)

:wub2:

Many people does so many statements about a fighter (F-22) which hasn't been proved in combat...:wub2:

[Alex]

the best fighter for iran is a iranian made fighter. russia can't be truseted coz they are too corrupt.

[KingoftheHill]

the best fighter for iran is a iranian made fighter. russia can't be truseted coz they are too corrupt.

Well...It's a ways off from now, considering Chile's F-5s are probably better than the Iranian souped up F-5 (forgot name, no disrespect).

I wonder if Belarus would sell Iran some equipment? They've sold some of their hardware to a few countries for example Peru and Algeria.

[SS_Charlemagne]

Well...It's a ways off from now, considering Chile's F-5s are probably better than the Iranian souped up F-5 (forgot name, no disrespect).

I wonder if Belarus would sell Iran some equipment? They've sold some of their hardware to a few countries for example Peru and Algeria.

We don't know much about Saegheh (you were meaning it?) so how you can know it is worse than chilean F-5s? BTW, Iran has more programmes about military aircraft.

[Sajjad]

Well...It's a ways off from now, considering Chile's F-5s are probably better than the Iranian souped up F-5 (forgot name, no disrespect).

Why do you say that?

[WGREE2]

Many people does so many statements about a fighter (F-22) which hasn't been proved in combat...:wub2:

There is so much equipment out there that hasnt been "proven in combat", Im sure you wouldnt want to be the one to find out though.

In June 2006 during Exercise Northern Edge (Alaska's largest joint military training exercise), the F-22A achieved a 144-to-zero kill-to-loss ratio against F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s simulating MiG-29 'Fulcrums', Su-30 'Flankers', and other current front line Russian aircraft, with at times the F-22A being outnumbered 4 to 1.[16][27] The small F-22 force of 12 aircraft generated 49% of the total kills for the exercise, and operated with an unprecedented reliability rate of 97%.

I dont like sourcing Wikipedia, but I wouldnt question the performance of the f22, It is the best of the best. This is why I think Iran shouldnt place so much importance on fighters, rather focus on surface to air systems. Iran can not win in the sky with its own fighters, not agaisnt the US or Israel.

[Janbaz]

There is so much equipment out there that hasnt been "proven in combat", Im sure you wouldnt want to be the one to find out though.

That is so true. None of the F-14s before Iran-Iraq war were tested in combat, but they succeeded with high ratio.

I dont like sourcing Wikipedia, but I wouldnt question the performance of the f22, It is the best of the best. This is why I think Iran shouldnt place so much importance on fighters, rather focus on surface to air systems. Iran can not win in the sky with its own fighters, not agaisnt the US or Israel.

Also so true. Iran needs to pay attention to different type of fighting (which they are) and also anti air defence systems that can't be jammed by US (which they are trying).

[attitude]

That is so true. None of the F-14s before Iran-Iraq war were tested in combat, but they succeeded with high ratio.



Also so true. Iran needs to pay attention to different type of fighting (which they are) and also anti air defence systems that can't be jammed by US (which they are trying).

The Iran Iraq war was the true test for the Tomcat

In the Gulf war and elsewhere it was very limited by the fact the USAF eagles did most of the air superiority missions

The Tomcats first shots in anger were in 1975 during the fall of saigon and the embassy evacuation
The F-14 was reportably called in to strafe NVA troops who were shelling the embassy

[lulldapull]

The smarter ppl here have voted for the only decent option available to Iran which is acquiring and inducting a large force of the Su-30MK's. Its the best iran can buy from its available sources. The Su-30MK in its definitive MKI version can defeat all aircraft in the Gulf area, save for the F-22. But at the same time U.S. forces will be evicted from Iraq soon, so there is no direct threat yet.

As is the MKK/MKI will be far more capable than the old Mig-29B's and ancient F-14A's. if Russia agrees to deliver the Novator Ks-172's and the R-27P with any Su-30 deal, then Iran couldn't ask for a better deal. Both are anti AWACS missiles with tremendous range, and will blind enemy AEW capabilities forcing them to light up their radars, thus giving them away.

I have already posted evidence that the MKI is superior to the F-35, and can handle its own against the F-35 with the Russian PESA/ AESA retrofit. The Indian MK-1 Flankers have totally and throughly outclassed well flown RSAF (Royal Singapore AF) Block-52's repeatedly. These Singaporean pilots train with the Israeli's and are considered some of the best in the world. They have been humbled twice now, once at Kalaikunda AIrforce base, and once at the Gawalior AFB area, where the 2 exercises were held.:)

Similarly the Mk-1's blew away the worthless dump truck Tornado's of the RAF last month. The IAF Flanker pilots called the Tornado a joker aircraft!:biggrin1:

But.....the F-22 can effectively handle the MKI's. Okb Sukhoi has stepped up its development work as the F-22 induction has introduced new technologies, which are difficult to counter with existing technology. In about 2 years the Sukhoi T-50/ PAKFA will make a debut, and even if not surpass the odds against the F-22.

[lulldapull]

Here is that famous Carlo Copp article from Auss Aviation, which describes the Su-30MK capabilities vs the F-18E/F and the JSF:

http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Flankers-Sept03.pdf#search=%22RAAF%20alternatives%22

And a rendering of what the Sukhoi T-50 would look like:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=112296

[lulldapull]

And a Sukhoi artist's rendering of the Sukhoi T-50/PakFA:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=112296

[KingoftheHill]

And a Sukhoi artist's rendering of the Sukhoi T-50/PakFA:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=112296


As much as I love Russian jets, that is the Raptorski

It was reported that some Dutch guy with too much time on his hands made that rendering.

Russia will release the actual photos of the PAK-FA later this year.

Cheers

[Prinz Eugen]

As much as I love Russian jets, that is the Raptorski


:roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3:

[SS_Charlemagne]

As much as I love Russian jets, that is the Raptorski

It was reported that some Dutch guy with too much time on his hands made that rendering.

Russia will release the actual photos of the PAK-FA later this year.

Cheers

hahahaha! You're the best, man. :roflmao3:

[apple_fritta]

why is the f14 so highly thought of on this forum? i dont mean to be racist or rude but iranian f14s r old...not even fully BVR.....if iran cant do a deal with russie as yet why not go for some of the new stuff china has rolled out like the j10 or the sinopak made jf17.....both the jets are up for sale....china/pakistan want to sell it so buy it....its the best iran can get atm.....both atre fully BVR...new designs...better mouverability...............once again i will say i am not being rude or racist :)

[shiroyeh]

why is the f14 so highly thought of on this forum? i dont mean to be racist or rude but iranian f14s r old...not even fully BVR.....if iran cant do a deal with russie as yet why not go for some of the new stuff china has rolled out like the j10 or the sinopak made jf17.....both the jets are up for sale....china/pakistan want to sell it so buy it....its the best iran can get atm.....both atre fully BVR...new designs...better mouverability...............once again i will say i am not being rude or racist :)

They are held so highly because they are basically the best in Iran's fleet... Arent Yanks proud of the f/a 22 or Brits of the Eurofighter Typhoon?... Also the Iranian F-14's played a big part in winning air superiority in the Iran-Iraq war.

It's all good in saying 'iran should go buy this or that' but will any of these manufacturers sell to Iran...? Probably not as Iran has had USA enforced embargos on aviation hardware.. Just take a look at Iran's civil fleet, it's starting to get to the point that it's dangerous to fly so why would you expect modern military aircraft to be sold to Iran when harmless aircrafts for civilian purposes or even the parts for them are not.

http://irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=9689

Nothing can formally challenge the F-22, maybe the S-400. The F-22 is a step ahead of whats out there right now.

Ermmmmmm... the Eurofighter Typhoon?????? :wub2:

[razhar]

su-30mk arent as good as u tot it was.... even j-10 could beat it.....

how do u know? u are their test pilot? :tired1_24:

[KingoftheHill]

why is the f14 so highly thought of on this forum? i dont mean to be racist or rude but iranian f14s r old...:)

Which is fully true, their time has came and gone. But since this is a Iranian website of course they are going to give the Tomcat hype :roflmao3:


It's all good in saying 'iran should go buy this or that' but will any of these manufacturers sell to Iran...? Probably not as Iran has had USA enforced embargos on aviation hardware.. Just take a look at Iran's civil fleet, it's starting to get to the point that it's dangerous to fly so why would you expect modern military aircraft to be sold to Iran when harmless aircrafts for civilian purposes or even the parts for them are not



Ermmmmmm... the Eurofighter Typhoon?????? Raptor bait :wub2:
Good point, but Russia and The Netherlands both sell Iran commercial aircraft to Iran.

This is evident by the huge Tupelov Tu-204 order and the number of Fokker 100 jets operating there.

[lulldapull]

how do u know? u are their test pilot? :tired1_24:

He's 14 years old and Chinese.:)

It is a childish fantasy to believe that the J-10 can beat the Su-30:biggrin1:

[KingoftheHill]

He's 14 years old and Chinese.:)

It is a childish fantasy to believe that the J-10 can beat the Su-30:biggrin1:

LOL

If a Su-30MK can stand probably defeat F-15/F-16/F-18 where does a J-10 stand?

...considering a block -40 F-16 can probably beat a J-10.

[shiroyeh]

Good point, but Russia and The Netherlands both sell Iran commercial aircraft to Iran.

This is evident by the huge Tupelov Tu-204 order and the number of Fokker 100 jets operating there.

This is all a rather recent development tho... Iran is possibly buying a fleet of Tupelov aircrafts after many test flights of their larger planes... but up until now Iran has mostly been buying second hand crafts from Russia or some of them from Greece (Olympic Air)

LMAO @ "Raptor bait" its a shame we will never hear of or see the two crafts go head to head... unless if the USA goes to war with Saudi Arabia who have ordered 74 EF Typhoons... wonder why they didnt purchase f/a 22's from their number one allies :err2:

[KingoftheHill]

This is all a rather recent development tho... Iran is possibly buying a fleet of Tupelov aircrafts after many test flights of their larger planes... but up until now Iran has mostly been buying second hand crafts from Russia or some of them from Greece (Olympic Air)

LMAO @ "Raptor bait" its a shame we will never hear of or see the two crafts go head to head... unless if the USA goes to war with Saudi Arabia who have ordered 74 EF Typhoons... wonder why they didnt purchase f/a 22's from their number one allies :err2:

I see you sort of know whats going on regarding Iran. you familiar with airliners.net?

Yep, Iran is getting more Fokker 100s from TAM (Brasil) to bolster regional operations. Also they are likely going to take some of the Tupelov Tu-204s ordered by Iran Air Tours.

Regarding the Raptor, IIRC it is not for export, Not yet at least. Although it is undetaking a overseas deployment to Japan.

[shiroyeh]

^ I've heard of Airliners.net... but I'm an active member of skyscrapercity.com :)

Oh right... I think the US will be quick to start taking orders for the Raptor after the black hole for money the project has been to develop the thing... I guess they will be ready to start taking orders for it soonish

[Snauhi]

^ I've heard of Airliners.net... but I'm an active member of skyscrapercity.com :)

Oh right... I think the US will be quick to start taking orders for the Raptor after the black hole for money the project has been to develop the thing... I guess they will be ready to start taking orders for it soonish

USA already have 40 Raptors
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123038268