Egyptian home-made fighters

[blue44]

I want to start this thread to show that the Egyptian industry is one of the best in the middle east according to aviation. Egypt is one of the first nations in the middle east which builded its own fighters.
One of the first made fighters, the HELWAN-300, I´m confinced to say that it was one of the best of its time. The Delta-wing is very characteristic.


Nowadays I must admit we are building many foreign planes under licence, but I once heard that Egypt is planing to build an Egyptian designed and made fighter in 2010 which should replace older planes like F-4, J-6/J-7 and Mirage-5.
You are right if you are criticizing me for not improving this claim with a source and for that reason I ask for help: If anyone can support me, please do so!!!

[blue44]

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

[Assad]

I want to start this thread to show that the Egyptian industry is one of the best in the middle east according to aviation. Egypt is one of the first nations in the middle east which builded its own fighters.
One of the first made fighters, the HELWAN-300, I´m confinced to say that it was one of the best of its time. The Delta-wing is very characteristic.


Nowadays I must admit we are building many foreign planes under licence, but I once heard that Egypt is planing to build an Egyptian designed and made fighter in 2010 which should replace older planes like F-4, J-6/J-7 and Mirage-5.
You are right if you are criticizing me for not improving this claim with a source and for that reason I ask for help: If anyone can support me, please do so!!!

I usually hate to prove wrong/totally trash people contributions...but when it comes to reading a complete pile of BS and over exagerations (especially egyptian ones)i am willing to make exceptions.

First off : a little outline of the industrial and technical capabilities of that nation of 70 million farmers...very little (more attune to basic to beginners).
Technical research output - similar
Manufacturing base - similar
Human resources - Technically lacking/ generally poor understanding of technology and its applications
Education - Technical education is very poor, with resulting research output and focus

Now to address the ridiculous claim of " ...that the Egyptian industry is one of the best in the middle east according to aviation" ...

I believe Israel has a superior aviation industry in the ME (coupled with a superior technical base, Manufacturing/industrial/engineering history and education)... ALL the rest of the Arabs have ...NONE....need i say any more....

More importantly - who $%^&ing Cares, and why are you trying to paint egypt as being the best (amongst a pretty bad lot in the first place) and so long as you keep thinking Egypt first mentality all this talk is irrelevant and pointless, it just serves to divide the arab and muslim brothers....

So ... Pretty Please with Sugar on top stop posting stuff like this again in the future - unless there is genuinely something to be proud of that EXISTS NOW/TODAY and is PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE

[ALEX4EVER]

First off : a little outline of the industrial and technical capabilities of that nation of 70 million farmers...very little


Wow, I did't know Egypt doesn't have doctors, teachers, lawyers, engineers, they are all farmers.

read what you are saying man!

[Assad]

Wow, I did't know Egypt doesn't have doctors, teachers, lawyers, engineers, they are all farmers.

read what you are saying man!

i am "man"...check your history this is a nation of mainly farmers - their social structure is derived from a farming society - farming the delta and the nile to be more specific - they have yet to evolve to an industrial urban society... since they dont have the infrastructure to make that jump or are in the process of developing such...they have however begun going down that route, hence teachers, engineers and doctors do exist (to me of questionable technical value, however i will concede this point)...but a looooooooooong way away from an urban industrial or service oriented society or economy, that can collect and expend the resources (money, technical knoweldge, personel, skills, etc) necessary for an indgenious/domestic aviation industry to succefuly operate... so before your write again check your history and your facts ... and come up with something more original - HOWEVER -

THIS is not about whether they have engineers doctors or teachers or blah, this is about assessing their ability to develop a domestic aviation capability on their own - which is i guess the point your missing - and the answer is a definite NO.

[ALEX4EVER]

You wrote "nation of 70 million farmers".
Your method of writing is racist, you are trying to dismiss Egypt's capabilities, by saying it's a farming society.

In short,

Egypt proved that it could develop it own fighter planes when they made HELWAN-300, and others.

[AySheerAyIran]

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

Whats the Name of the Egyptian Made Fighters??? can you provide that so we know what to search for thanks

[PARSI PRIDE]

as much as I like our muslim brothers in egypt , they have no or hardly any industrial base . in the middel east they are really part of africa they do not
come close . the only countries that produce armaments are Iran and Israel
no one else. unfortunatly egypt has one of highest illiterate rates in the middel east 50%.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/eg.html#People

Industries:
textiles, food processing, tourism, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, hydrocarbons, construction, cement, metals, light manufactures

Defense industry
Main articles: Iranian defense industry and List of military equipment manufactured in Iran
Iran's 2005 defence budget was estimated to be $6.3 billion (3.3% of GDP) by London's International Institute for Strategic Studies or $91 per capita. Iran's defense industry has also taken great strides in the past 25 years, and now manufactures many types of arms and equipment. Since 1992, Iran's Defense Industries Organization (DIO) has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, guided missiles, submarines, and a fighter plane [22]. As of 2006, Iran had exported weapons to 57 countries, including NATO members, and sold $100 million worth of military equipment

[jamsadeghi]

I had a look on youtube for a vid of this HELWAN-300...when was this thing made? it looks pretty old in the video...probably '60's-'70's at least..but thats my guess...

And my other question would be that IF it is from the time period i suggested, and IF it was in fact made by Egyptians (which again i cannot prove nor disprove...links anyone??...would be nice) then logically it begs the question, if they had the capability to make a jet back then, what the hell happened??...where is the industry today??

unless of course they didnt make it in which case my question is unfounded...if thats the case please someone let me know!

Thanks

[Ayyash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj_1JdbbWe0

I must agree with jams on this one, it does look rather old, but the fact that egypt indigenously produced these means they have taked a very big step

[Assad]

You wrote "nation of 70 million farmers".
Your method of writing is racist, you are trying to dismiss Egypt's capabilities, by saying it's a farming society.

In short,

Egypt proved that it could develop it own fighter planes when they made HELWAN-300, and others.

you still dont get it do you!! Racist or not is irrelevant - I am not trying to dismiss - I AM DISMISSING EGYPTS CAPABILITIES altogether! Building one or two prototype aircraft, does not make an aviation industry!! otherwise that leaves many questions unanswered where are the factories, where are the production planes,why didnt they contribute in the various wars? AND as a further side point, i remember my Engineering schools department of mechanical engineering did actually build a helicopter as a prototype and platform demonstrator- yet you dont see me going on all forums shouting to the world that my university has the best aviation industry!! it does'nt. learn to be humble - Pride is not a suitable alternative to the truth.

As already raised by my fellow colleagues and myself, Iran and Israel have/had much better capabilities, better industrial base and broader outlook. Egypt is a nobody in this race - get used to it.

[ALEX4EVER]

I tried to post link(s) but I need 30 posts before I can post link(s).

[ALEX4EVER]

I would like to talk some more, but believe or not, my computer is sitting on the floor, because I'm in the process of moving to a new home. Therefore I have no time what so ever.

I do wish Egypt would become more industrialized, from this aspect they are lacking. Egypt does need to become more independent.

the best aviation industry!! .

No one said the best aviation industry, you said that. But Egypt is certainly capable of making fighter planes. And it has a good aviation school. Also the air force pilots did exceptionally well in the war of 73.

Here is a link to the Egyptian planes factory, sorry it is in Arabic

sorry can't post links yet


Before Egypt made the HW-300, they made HW-200 and HW-100. The production was scrapped because Egypt needed the money, unfortunately this happens to many other programs.

Anyway for the guys who asked about the fighter plane, here is a link with pictures and info in English and Arabic.

sorry can't post link yet


Finally I read other news about the construction of a new fighter plane, with an engine in similar ways to the F-16, with other parts being imported from the outside, unfortunately I can't remember the source and whether it was in english, I will provide when I find.

[abu sulayman]

The Helwan 300 was a fighter plane designed by the legendary Willy Messerschmidt.
He came up with the initial design in 1955, then during the 1960's the production moved to Egypt.
It was a Mach 2 interceptor. The engine, from what I remember, was designed in India.

The program was scrapped in 1969 because the other Arab states refused to finance it, feeling threatened by Nasser's belligerence against them, and by the Soviets willing to provide Egypt with MiG's at substiantially reduced costs.

While Egypt does have reasonably good mechanical industry and can assemble aircraft, they don't have engineering and design capabilities.

[M Nabil]

that nation of 70 million farmers...very little (more attune to basic to beginners).


You're pathetic, you know.

I usually hate to prove wrong/totally trash people contributions...but when it comes to reading a complete pile of BS and over exagerations (especially egyptian ones)

Too much hate will kill you.

[Vladimir80]

I think it is clear Iran has the most advanced aviation industry in the ME as they make 3.5 gen fighters from the bottom up including helicopters.

[Othman]

what about the engine ? egyptian too ?

[JanIran]

I think it is clear Iran has the most advanced aviation industry in the ME as they make 3.5 gen fighters from the bottom up including helicopters.

I think it's absolutely clear that Iran has the most advanced aviation industry in the ME. But as he said. Egypt is one of the best in the ME, and I agree with him. Egypt is not the best though.

[Othman]

most advanced is the one building its own engines since its the most sensitive part.

[JanIran]

most advanced is the one building its own engines since its the most sensitive part.

That's why Iran is number one.

[cedar]

i dont think any muslim nation can develop jet engines china has only just made its 1st engine after 50 years research and development. and its a long way behind usa and russian engines. Simply buying a russian rd-33 or other and putting it in iranian or pakistani designed airframes doesnt mean its yours.

[1973 victory]

a worthless subject to reply ... egypt military industry is a well known for those who have the real info.... not some ignorants and haters ....

[kaiser_tr]

i dont think any muslim nation can develop jet engines china has only just made its 1st engine after 50 years research and development. and its a long way behind usa and russian engines. Simply buying a russian rd-33 or other and putting it in iranian or pakistani designed airframes doesnt mean its yours.

you're right.sadly no muslim nation can produce any kind of engines. we're much away from jet engines, we cant produce even %100 indigenous automobile engines :(

[Assad]

You're pathetic, you know.
i think the only one showing their pathetic little mind here is you living in your delusional little world...wake up and smell the coffee...


Too much hate will kill you.

again pride and insults are no substitute for the truth. wake up and listen to your self ... you sound like a misguided soul - learn to accept criticism and the truth...it will set your little mind free.

[amro the killer]

I dont get why many arabs are so jelous of egypt that they have to criticize every technological advancement Egypt has made. Egypt have shown Isreal and the other arabs what it was made of in 1973, both on land and in air while the arabs just sat on there arses

[cedar]

I dont get why many arabs are so jelous of egypt that they have to criticize every technological advancement Egypt has made. Egypt have shown Isreal and the other arabs what it was made of in 1973, both on land and in air while the arabs just sat on there arses

This is internet u dont know who u are speaking to most arabs are proud of egypt those who are jealous are not your main stream ones .

[Supreme]

I dont get why many arabs are so jelous of egypt that they have to criticize every technological advancement Egypt has made. Egypt have shown Isreal and the other arabs what it was made of in 1973, both on land and in air while the arabs just sat on there arses

Exactly what has Egypt done? other than import a bunch of F-16s and Abrams.

[snc128]

I dont get why many arabs are so jelous of egypt that they have to criticize every technological advancement Egypt has made. Egypt have shown Isreal and the other arabs what it was made of in 1973, both on land and in air while the arabs just sat on there arses
you are making up man
no any Arabs are jealous of what Egypt has done.they just envy and this feeling is acceptable.no need to exaggrate.

[apple_fritta]

I usually hate to prove wrong/totally trash people contributions...but when it comes to reading a complete pile of BS and over exagerations (especially egyptian ones)i am willing to make exceptions.

First off : a little outline of the industrial and technical capabilities of that nation of 70 million farmers...very little (more attune to basic to beginners).
Technical research output - similar
Manufacturing base - similar
Human resources - Technically lacking/ generally poor understanding of technology and its applications
Education - Technical education is very poor, with resulting research output and focus

Now to address the ridiculous claim of " ...that the Egyptian industry is one of the best in the middle east according to aviation" ...

I believe Israel has a superior aviation industry in the ME (coupled with a superior technical base, Manufacturing/industrial/engineering history and education)... ALL the rest of the Arabs have ...NONE....need i say any more....

More importantly - who $%^&ing Cares, and why are you trying to paint egypt as being the best (amongst a pretty bad lot in the first place) and so long as you keep thinking Egypt first mentality all this talk is irrelevant and pointless, it just serves to divide the arab and muslim brothers....

So ... Pretty Please with Sugar on top stop posting stuff like this again in the future - unless there is genuinely something to be proud of that EXISTS NOW/TODAY and is PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE

LOL! You Syrians hate Egyptians SO MUCH! It's almost hilarious. I support that fact that Egypt has at least tryied to make some fighter jets, All i see in your attitude is pure jealousy.

[snc128]

LOL! You Syrians hate Egyptians SO MUCH! It's almost hilarious. I support that fact that Egypt has at least tryied to make some fighter jets, All i see in your attitude is pure jealousy.

DO NOT HEAT UP THE ENVIRONMENT.they were both good allies ,and I want/prefer to see them like that forever.
btw,I can not see any sentence of jealousy but envy.

[apple_fritta]

DO NOT HEAT UP THE ENVIRONMENT.they were both good allies ,and I want/prefer to see them like that forever.
btw,I can not see any sentence of jealousy but envy.

Tell that to mister 'Assad' who can't stop acting hard.

[M Nabil]

i think the only one showing their pathetic little mind here is you living in your delusional little world...wake up and smell the coffee...

I'm not living in any delusional world, you spoke in a derogatory way about my country and I won't accept it.





again pride and insults are no substitute for the truth. wake up and listen to your self ... you sound like a misguided soul - learn to accept criticism and the truth...it will set your little mind free.

Again you accuse me of pride which I'm not guilty of, and I'm not a misguided soul :). I accept criticism but not insults. It's not like I'm claiming my country is a super power or something; in fact I'm not satisfied with my country's military industry because I know we can do much better.

But you attacked the OP fiercely for claiming that Egypt's aviation industry is one of the best in the middle east (which some members agreed with) and you spoke in a derogatory way about Egypt instead of stating any kind of constructive criticism.

[One_last_pharaoh]

oh people stop that funny siacuaaion
i mean...whatta hell does any one of those who opposite the power of egypt has as a prove for his claims???
non..
it's simple, open the EAF article in global security . org
open the same article at the F-16 offecial site
or try wikipedia
and for arabic-speakers try the AOI offecial site - maybe the non-arabic-speakers can too as most of the links are translated-
away from that, just keep dreaming