Seljuk Turkish Empire in Iran

[TURKS]

The Seljuqs سلجوقيان were a dynasty that ruled parts of Central Asia and the Middle East from the 11th to 14th centuries.

"Great Seljuk" that stretched from Anatolia to Pakistan and was the target of the First Crusade. They are also regarded as the cultural ancestors of the Western Turks, the present-day inhabitants of Turkey, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan.Originally, the House of Seljuq was a branch of the Kınık Oghuz Turks


http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/centrasia/seljuk1100.GIF

[NEWUSER]

Actually 1038 to 1194 AD only.. started with Togrul bin Mikail in 1038 and ended with Togrul beg III in 1194 who succeeded Arsalan shah.

[payam]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :D
haha
see my otmani turk brother u have 1 oroblem and that is u see all turks same
as i know SALJUK are some miniory that were in iran land for hundred years and they are iranian
u must get this that iran dosent mean 1 miniory!
in 7 thousand years hitsory we have many kind( more than maybe hundred )
know we have : turk/fars/kurd/lor/......
u problem is this: u see all turks in same history and same culture
there are so many country that pl on it have 1 language but u cant say they are same or their Kingdom is not thiers
for ex: tajikestan is a farsi language country but they have thier own history
thats true they were some years in iran land but all know they are not base
as i know otmani turk hadnt occupied our land in the history!
we have so many wars with otmani turks for example in safavi kingdom(a turkish kingdom) ! but otmani turks couldnt do anything
SALJUK IS ONE IRANIAN MINIORY CUASE THEY WERE IN IRAN FOR HUNDRED YEARS!
u must not mix up my brother
u know some countries like tukamanestan / ghazaghestan / ozbakestan are in our cultural land not tukey
they were some part of our land with our culture
u otmani turks must search for ur brother in ARAB LANDS(ur otmani emperor)
AND SEE HOW OUR SALJUK KINGDOM MADE IRAN BIG
i dont know what the hell ur government are saying to u (for political reasons)
but i know that u ppl cant erase iranian history like other
turkish kingdoms are exaclly iranian cuase iran means AALLL miniories and i dont have any info about otmani turks in iran land hahah:laugh4:

[payam]

using turkish name is somtimes funny!
well first of all from thousand years all asia were our home land!
also all turkish kings in iran knw themself iranian and also some like ( shah esmalil and shah abas) had so many wars with ottmani turks! also having farsi language in iran shows that all kings i iran helped improving persian language and they knew themself from persia land
so many wild minirities attacked iran! like arabs of saudi or maghoul
or...!but we all know azar ppl and ppl in turkamanestan are orginally iranian with diffrent culture from what we have in turkey!

[dogukan]

using turkish name is somtimes funny!
well first of all from thousand years all asia were our home land!
also all turkish kings in iran knw themself iranian and also some like ( shah esmalil and shah abas) had so many wars with ottmani turks! also having farsi language in iran shows that all kings i iran helped improving persian language and they knew themself from persia land
so many wild minirities attacked iran! like arabs of saudi or maghoul
or...!but we all know azar ppl and ppl in turkamanestan are orginally iranian with diffrent culture from what we have in turkey!

you mean they WERE Iranian,now they have Turkish blood in thier veins.Seljuks were Turkish but it contained people from many other nations and religions.And Iranians influenced Seljuks a lot.Thats it,nothing more.

[Arashi]

you mean they WERE Iranian,now they have Turkish blood in thier veins.Seljuks were Turkish but it contained people from many other nations and religions.And Iranians influenced Seljuks a lot.Thats it,nothing more.

Have you measured their blood? What do you base these facts on? The only thing you know is that their LANGUAGE is Turkish...Scientists have already established that Azaris are Iranic by blood, and merely Turkic by language...

[dogukan]

Have you measured their blood? What do you base these facts on? The only thing you know is that their LANGUAGE is Turkish...Scientists have already established that Azaris are Iranic by blood, and merely Turkic by language...

Ok Azaris are Iranian,but there is no 100% Azaris left.After their Turkifacation they've changed a lot.

[payam]

read my text again
also u must not see all things the same !i will send u some text for u brother later! :biggrin1:
also this is thousand years all world is under iranian influance!
also our culture is so many diffrent what we have in turkish!
for ex: just look at azari ppl!kurds/turkamans/...
this is what i said
cuase for ex iran has more cultural capacity to use it for azarbayjan/turkamanestan/gher.///(center asia)
cuase the only thingu turkish have for them is language
also we have the language point for them too cuase nearly 50% of we iranain are speaking in some kind of turkish!
i know what are u talking about ! for ex egyption are not orginally arab but they aer speaking arabic know!
in some part in same with half iranian but 1 diffrent
egyption have some kind of arabic culture butt=>>> iranian have their own
in any kind(azari/kurd/lor/fars) they be
u turlish also must go and search in arabic country(which were as otmani emperor) to find ur real brother:roflmao3: .
but honstly we are all brother and lets leave some kind of this topic
all middle east in some case are brother
we are all muslim and have so many same things and all made big influances to othe!
also who will say iran did not when we have more than 7 year founded history?
u can go bosnia and see some mosque with farsi poem
u can go india and see some mosque made by iranian architect
even molana which u are saying he is turk(when he had even 1 poem in turkish)is iranian!
so see all nation had that....
also we like turkish!also im ghasghaui turk in iran but when i here some like to see my nation thier owns i cant be quite

[Soroush]

Ok Azaris are Iranian,but there is no 100% Azaris left.After their Turkifacation they've changed a lot.

Azeris belong to Iran and consider themselves Iranian, nothing can change that. Your problem should be with the greeks and not us!.

[payam]

yes they (azari turkaman...) all have iranian blood!u were some kind of miniory (like arabs 1400 years ago) attack our country
so dont say we are brother when u attack us
we have good memory:laugh4:
and we dont want to call ourself turk
we are iranian /azar /turkaman/ ghashghai.. with a kind of language that is ours!i know its from base turkish but we dont want to accept it :D
hey ok..... we are brother maaan so lets leave topic but dont forget we iranian like our history and culture and dont want to share it with anyone

[dogukan]

read my text again
also u must not see all things the same !i will send u some text for u brother later! :biggrin1:
also this is thousand years all world is under iranian influance!
also our culture is so many diffrent what we have in turkish!
for ex: just look at azari ppl!kurds/turkamans/...
this is what i said
cuase for ex iran has more cultural capacity to use it for azarbayjan/turkamanestan/gher.///(center asia)
cuase the only thingu turkish have for them is language
also we have the language point for them too cuase nearly 50% of we iranain are speaking in some kind of turkish!
i know what are u talking about ! for ex egyption are not orginally arab but they aer speaking arabic know!
in some part in same with half iranian but 1 diffrent
egyption have some kind of arabic culture butt=>>> iranian have their own
in any kind(azari/kurd/lor/fars) they be
u turlish also must go and search in arabic country(which were as otmani emperor) to find ur real brother:roflmao3: .
but honstly we are all brother and lets leave some kind of this topic
all middle east in some case are brother
we are all muslim and have so many same things and all made big influances to othe!
also who will say iran did not when we have more than 7 year founded history?
u can go bosnia and see some mosque with farsi poem
u can go india and see some mosque made by iranian architect
even molana which u are saying he is turk(when he had even 1 poem in turkish)is iranian!
so see all nation had that....
also we like turkish!also im ghasghaui turk in iran but when i here some like to see my nation thier owns i cant be quite

Yeah we're brothers but not because of Islam,because of our cultures.Both cultures affected each other a lot,and the only thing Turks had is not their language.

[Soroush]

yes they (azari turkaman...) all have iranian blood!u were some kind of miniory (like arabs 1400 years ago) attack our country
so dont say we are brother when u attack us
we have good memory:laugh4:
and we dont want to call ourself turk
we are iranian /azar /turkaman/ ghashghai.. which a kind of language that is ours!

agreed, persian race does not exist anymore and thats why we call ourselves Iranians because of the different national race that have settled in our country through history.

[Arashi]

agreed, persian race does not exist anymore and thats why we call ourselves Iranians because of the different national race that have settled in our country through history.

Actually, that wouldn't be correct either...Although noone is 100% pure of race, there is still DNA, bloodline, culture, language, appearance which defines ethnicity...we have Lurs, Persians, Azaris, Kurds, Mazandaranis, Gilakis in Iran. "Iranian" is just a nationality.

[dogukan]

yes they (azari turkaman...) all have iranian blood!u were some kind of miniory (like arabs 1400 years ago) attack our country
so dont say we are brother when u attack us
we have good memory:laugh4:
and we dont want to call ourself turk
we are iranian /azar /turkaman/ ghashghai.. with a kind of language that is ours!i know its from base turkish but we dont want to accept it :D
hey ok..... we are brother maaan so lets leave topic but dont forget we iranian like our history and culture and dont want to share it with anyone

When did we attack Iran.I do not know any battles between Turks and Iranians in early medieval ages.But i knew Seljuks took over all Iranian lands.

[Soroush]

Actually, that wouldn't be correct either...Although noone is 100% pure of race, there is still DNA, bloodline, culture, language, appearance which defines ethnicity...we have Lurs, Persians, Azaris, Kurds, Mazandaranis, Gilakis in Iran. "Iranian" is just a nationality.

can't disagree with you but to say that the real persians who inherited in our country 3000 years ago and still compare them to live in Iran is over exaggerated. I do agree that there is still alot of our cultures left from along time ago but the chances of us also having mongolian, arab, azari, kurdish blood is also very high and just because of our ancestors exisitng ages ago doesn't mean we will have their type of DNA but cultures and languages can come to mind.

[payam]

some turkish governement i heared one day: we had no war with iran after 400 years agoo
so u had no war huh???????
go read more about history
for ex azari ppl were spoken as some root of pahlavi
and after turk attack it happend for them
but they have already iranian and have already thier historical culture
cuase turks didnt have any culture to share with them at that time!
so read more brother and dont play with 7 thousand iranian history

[dogukan]

some turkish governement i heared one day: we had no war with iran after 400 years agoo
so u had no war huh???????
go read more about history
for ex azari ppl were spoken as some root of pahlavi
and after turk attack it happend for them
but they have already iranian and have already thier historical culture
cuase turks didnt have any culture to share with them at that time!
so read more brother and dont play with 7 thousand iranian history

Well we have an history of more than 4000 years and our own culture.GOT IT?!?!AND YOU'RE NOT THE SUPERIOR RACE!!!
And we influenced world more than you :D

[Arashi]

can't disagree with you but to say that the real persians who inherited in our country 3000 years ago and still compare them to live in Iran is over exaggerated. I do agree that there is still alot of our cultures left from along time ago but the chances of us also having mongolian, arab, azari, kurdish blood is also very high and just because of our ancestors exisitng ages ago doesn't mean we will have their type of DNA but cultures and languages can come to mind.

Apparently there is still enough to define us (Kurds, Azaris, Persians, Mazandarani, Gilaki, Balochi, Tajik, Pashto) as Indo-European (Aryan) and the others as Semites and Mongolians. :biggrin1:

[dogukan]

Ok i just realized that Natioanlism is very annoying stuff.ı'm a natioanlist myself.It sux to listen nationalists lol.

You should see Kurdish nationalists,killers.

[Soroush]

Apparently there is still enough to define us (Kurds, Azaris, Persians, Mazandarani, Gilaki, Balochi, Tajik, Pashto) as Indo-European (Aryan) and the others as Semites and Mongolians. :biggrin1:

True and I have no problem being called Iranian or Persian (even though it's unlikely that I am) but because it's still part of our history, we should never forget it.

[Arashi]

True and I have no problem being called Iranian or Persian (even though it's unlikely that I am) but because it's still part of our history, we should never forget it.

You should call yourself whatever you are...If your family is overwhelmingly Parsi, call yourself Parsi, if you are Lori, call yourself Lor, Turkmen, Balochi, etc. But at the end of the day, we are all Iranian, and an Azari or Gilaki will fight as ferociously for Iran as any Persian ;)

[payam]

dogukan to be honest we iranian did it more! nearly half of asia in some hunderd years ago were in our influance
but lets talk honestly and finish these things:
first of all parsi ppl are not the only miniory in our history
even 2500 that parsi ppl were in power we had so many others miniorites
so iran is not just 1 miniory to tell me that!
iran means all: kurd/lur/azar/any kind of turk/gilak/tajik/turkaman....
we have so many miniorities that i tell u some of them in last sentences
we all are with 1 same culture
about 1000 years turk kings were in power in IRAN
but it dosent means that they were otmani turks
cuase for ex see shah esmail and shah abas they were some turk in ardebil
but they knew themself iranian not turk/(u want to tell me all were in love with turkish)noo brother/if u are telling me we had no war u want to say that iran didnt exist !but it shows that u dont know anything about history or maybe like azarbayjan republic government made ur brain full by wrong info to use it in political point!
for ex shah abas were always in war with otmani turks emperor!
all our turk shahs were in that position
and the only reason parsi language is alive yet is that thouse turk king knew themself iranian and knew that iran has so many miniorities and they used parsi for national speaking.and just use turki in army
also with this things u want to tell me that there is no iran and saljuk were turkish cuase they were turk!somthing must be clear!all turks are not from turkish! iran is not exaclly and only the land of parsis! iran is the land of alll thouse miniorities!and our culture made by all of them!
so dont try to tell me we were in ur influance!that for sure in language is that but in culture we hve so strong culture that is so diffrent from urs!
allso our 7 thousand history can tell u that we had in our history more than hundered or thousands miniorities.
so dont try to make iran hide and say all were turkish!go read in right and true sources and see how deep we have diffrences!
also if u are talking about love and being brother and friendship oook!!!!
so give ur country to us to add it in iran land like past and control it to not be in the hand of israel and usa!give us that to make islam alive in that brother ! this is iraaaaaaan land:biggrin1: we ar eproud of our history which all miniorities made it.and all of them are=>>>>>>>iranian

[dogukan]

dogukan to be honest we iranian did it more! nearly half of asia in some hunderd years ago were in our influance
but lets talk honestly and finish these things:
first of all parsi ppl are not the only miniory in our history
even 2500 that parsi ppl were in power we had so many others miniorites
so iran is not just 1 miniory to tell me that!
iran means all: kurd/lur/azar/any kind of turk/gilak/tajik/turkaman....
we have so many miniorities that i tell u some of them in last sentences
we all are with 1 same culture
about 1000 years turk kings were in power in IRAN
but it dosent means that they were otmani turks
cuase for ex see shah esmail and shah abas they were some turk in ardebil
but they knew themself iranian not turk/(u want to tell me all were in love with turkish)noo brother/if u are telling me we had no war u want to say that iran didnt exist !but it shows that u dont know anything about history or maybe like azarbayjan republic government made ur brain full by wrong info to use it in political point!
for ex shah abas were always in war with otmani turks emperor!
all our turk shahs were in that position
and the only reason parsi language is alive yet is that thouse turk king knew themself iranian and knew that iran has so many miniorities and they used parsi for national speaking.and just use turki in army
also with this things u want to tell me that there is no iran and saljuk were turkish cuase they were turk!somthing must be clear!all turks are not from turkish! iran is not exaclly and only the land of parsis! iran is the land of alll thouse miniorities!and our culture made by all of them!
so dont try to tell me we were in ur influance!that for sure in language is that but in culture we hve so strong culture that is so diffrent from urs!
allso our 7 thousand history can tell u that we had in our history more than hundered or thousands miniorities.
so dont try to make iran hide and say all were turkish!go read in right and true sources and see how deep we have diffrences!
also if u are talking about love and being brother and friendship oook!!!!
so give ur country to us to add it in iran land like past and control it to not be in the hand of israel and usa!give us that to make islam alive in that brother ! this is iraaaaaaan land:biggrin1: we ar eproud of our history which all miniorities made it.and all of them are=>>>>>>>iranian

LOL wtf Turks are not Iranian.
Go make some research,search for >Turkic people and you'll see
enough said

[dogukan]

An exact line between the different Turkic peoples cannot easily be drawn. The following is a non-comprehensive list of the major groups:

Altays (Oirots)
Azerbaijanis -Turkification ;)
Balkars (along with Karachays, speakers of the Karachay-Balkar language)
Bashkirs
Chulyms
Chuvashs
Crimean Tatars
Dolgans
Gagauz
Karachays (along with Balkars, speakers of the Karachay-Balkar language)
Crimean Karaites
Karakalpaks
Karapapak
Kazakhs
Khakas
Kirghiz
Krymchaks (speak a modified form of Crimean Tatar)
Kumyks
Meskhetian Turks
Nogais
Qashqai
Salar
Tatars
Volga Tatars (or Kazan Tatars, or simply Tatars)
Nağaybäklär
Baltic Tatars
Siberian Tatars
Lipka Tatars
Tofalars
Turkmens
Turks of Turkey (see also Ottoman Turks)
Turkish Cypriots
Tuvans
Urums
Uyghur
Uzbeks
Yakuts
Yörüks

[dogukan]

Iranian people and Turkic people are totally different.But they both are among the major peoples in the world.

[snc128]

dogukan sen ne yapmaya çalışıyon Allah aşkına.anlamadım tam

[payam]

i like to use bad words but i dont like to do!go and erad first page of this tread
who said iranian are diffrent with turks??????
who the hell gives u such that info?????????
iran meanss alll miniorities not just 1
see ur search and info is not important for me cuase all are in ur influance
go and read some hisstorical things to get that otmani history is diffrent from iranian turk..... offfff look how western are changing all tuthhhhh
they come to destroy our history tooo!!!!!!!!!
who sasaid turks are not iranian? all that kingdoms were iranian
cuase we are all these==> turk/fars/kurd/lor/.......
saljughian ( saljuk) were in iran land for hundred years and then they tried to start a kingdom and made so many nations as IRAN
just go read some true sources its not a new things
also azarbayjan republic for political reasons changed her history in wrong to tell we are not iranian!its a job for ur gov to try make thier influance in ur nation more and more!
haha so tell me if we were not iranian so why u are in turkey now and we are on iran???? haha u must go to arab lands to find ur emperor brothers
thats true that u ppl were some days in our lands and we were one nation in iran but im sure that u otmani turks hadent even 1 time experiance in occupite iranian land
we are all iranian ==> azar/ghasghai/tabatabai/bayat/turkaman/....
see how many miniorites here! u are 1 of turk group(otmani turks)and u hadnt any war againts us that in that war u occupied some of our land
SALJUK IS IRANIAN KINGDOM AND BE IN TRUTH BABYYY AND BROTHER
u hadnt any same cultural things with cneteral asia cuase they were our brothers in 1 nation
and dont try to show urself powerfull!ur otmani turks hadnt any experiance to attack us seccsesfully!
so go and read about iran in true sources!haha shame on some nation that like to change history
take care my brother

[payam]

Altays (Oirots)
Azerbaijanis -Turkification
Balkars (along with Karachays, speakers of the Karachay-Balkar language)
Bashkirs
Chulyms
Chuvashs
Crimean Tatars
Dolgans
Gagauz
Karachays (along with Balkars, speakers of the Karachay-Balkar language)
Crimean Karaites
Karakalpaks
Karapapak
Kazakhs
Khakas
Kirghiz
Krymchaks (speak a modified form of Crimean Tatar)
Kumyks
Meskhetian Turks
Nogais
Qashqai ====> ((((((((payam: im from this :D)))))
Salar
Tatars
Volga Tatars (or Kazan Tatars, or simply Tatars)
Nağaybäklär
Baltic Tatars
Siberian Tatars
Lipka Tatars
Tofalars
Turkmens
Turks of Turkey (see also Ottoman Turks)
Turkish Cypriots
Tuvans
Urums
Uyghur
Uzbeks
Yakuts
Yörüks

yes true true brother but u cant say with this all that all turks were in today turkey land cuasse many of them were in iran land and same with us in culture and ...
can u give british history same with usa?????
nooo cuase the nations had diffrent movment
as i said we had some wars with otmani too when our kingdom were turkish(in safavi time)
see thats true we are brother but its not true that we are not iranian
ur land were add to our land by saljuk so dont give things wrong
turk our iranian and we love iran cuase iran had so many miniorities that they made it history
for ex azari ppl were the most important group in iran revolution
also qashghai were the most important in (FARS STATE-fars is a state like isfahan and we qashghai are in that) TO kick british asses u can go and read what we did to them :D and all of us fight for iran
iran is our land and dont give it wrong cuase we made it !we made it history
u cant see in azari ppl even now that thing u want to say!they all love iran
for ex REZAZADE ! he is azari and he love iran and he say it always
also our leader seyed ali khamenei is azari too
we have so many groups n our country and all of them made this land IRAAAAAAAAAAAN

[azad]

hi guys..
please get over it..
blind nationalism has harmed us more than anything..

turks and iranians have coexisted for centuries and insha'allah will continue to do so..

[payam]

hi guys..
please get over it..
blind nationalism has harmed us more than anything..

turks and iranians have coexisted for centuries and insha'allah will continue to do so..

blind nationalism????? did u read iranian history???????ohhhhhh
see dont use iranian and turkkkkkkkkkks
we have so many turk groups in our land for thousand years like other
they are exaclly iranian!and htey all love iran
this brother want to say ur land is oursss! a muslim must not use this wrong kind of words! cuase its not true in any cases

[dogukan]

i like to use bad words but i dont like to do!go and erad first page of this tread
who said iranian are diffrent with turks??????
who the hell gives u such that info?????????
iran meanss alll miniorities not just 1
see ur search and info is not important for me cuase all are in ur influance
go and read some hisstorical things to get that otmani history is diffrent from iranian turk..... offfff look how western are changing all tuthhhhh
they come to destroy our history tooo!!!!!!!!!
who sasaid turks are not iranian? all that kingdoms were iranian
cuase we are all these==> turk/fars/kurd/lor/.......
saljughian ( saljuk) were in iran land for hundred years and then they tried to start a kingdom and made so many nations as IRAN
just go read some true sources its not a new things
also azarbayjan republic for political reasons changed her history in wrong to tell we are not iranian!its a job for ur gov to try make thier influance in ur nation more and more!
haha so tell me if we were not iranian so why u are in turkey now and we are on iran???? haha u must go to arab lands to find ur emperor brothers
thats true that u ppl were some days in our lands and we were one nation in iran but im sure that u otmani turks hadent even 1 time experiance in occupite iranian land
we are all iranian ==> azar/ghasghai/tabatabai/bayat/turkaman/....
see how many miniorites here! u are 1 of turk group(otmani turks)and u hadnt any war againts us that in that war u occupied some of our land
SALJUK IS IRANIAN KINGDOM AND BE IN TRUTH BABYYY AND BROTHER
u hadnt any same cultural things with cneteral asia cuase they were our brothers in 1 nation
and dont try to show urself powerfull!ur otmani turks hadnt any experiance to attack us seccsesfully!
so go and read about iran in true sources!haha shame on some nation that like to change history
take care my brother
Seljuks???Iranian???
LOL
According to you everybod y is Iranian.Turks are a different ethnicity,Iranians are different ethnicity.
Yes they all have minorities.The names i posted were the minorities of Turkish nation.
The Turks living in Turkey other hand are not totally Turks.Being a Turk is now more like a culture in Turkey cuz our ethnicity is a mixture of many nations including Iranian ones.ANyways they guys living in East Russia,Central Asia and eastern Europe are Turks.Turkey Turks are a mixture but this doesn't make them totally Iranian.
And Seljuks were a Turkish dynasty,Ottomans came out from Anatolian Seljuks.

Howewer Seljuk Empire was collapsed.After that there were many other small Seljukian dynasties and one of them was in Iran.

Just because Seljuks were on Iranian lands doesn't make them Iranian.Thats why we call it EMPIRE.Empires include many nations and thewre were more non-Turkic people in Seljuk Empire.But the leaders were Turk!!
The guy who founded it was Selçuk Bey,it doesn't sond Iranian to me.
Nor Tuğrul bey nor Çağrı bey,do they??


And Payyam you're an extreme nationalist and extreme religious person.I mean you're dangeorus and i'm sure you would like to kill kafirs,people do not think the same way as you do.I'm a kafir :)

And yes nationalism,extreme nationalism annoys people

[dogukan]

Ottoman were interested in west
+They did not want to fight aganist muslim brother,after all Ottomans were leaders of Muslims.Caliph was also Ottoman sultan :)

[payam]

According to you everybod y is Iranian.Turks are a different ethnicity,Iranians are different ethnicity.

according to what???/dont tell me according and some hell like this!bush uses so many according too :D according the turkey sourcessss?thats natural they want to show this face for political reasons!but but they must see this at hell! hahaa
as my friend said u are talking with blind eyess
go read some true history son
iranian are not 1 miniorites to tell turks non-iranian
go learn somthing case we are all iranian

[dogukan]

dogukan sen ne yapmaya çalışıyon Allah aşkına.anlamadım tam

Well if we do not defend our history they'll take it all :)
Greeks,Armenians and many others are already trying.And now Iranians

[dogukan]

according to what???/dont tell me according and some hell like this!bush uses so many according too :D according the turkey sourcessss?thats natural they want to show this face for political reasons!but but they must see this at hell! hahaa
as my friend said u are talking with blind eyess
go read some true history son
iranian are not 1 miniorites to tell turks non-iranian
go learn somthing case we are all iranian

i thought your friend was talking about you but ,i can not know for sure.

[payam]

Ottomans were leaders of Muslims.

hahaaaaaaa otmani were the arabic countries leader and also they wereeeeeeeeeeeeeeee cuase attaturk did a right job for west
and now iran is he base of islam
just see how we are againts anti muslims and ur gov always are with thier chifs(us)

[dogukan]

I said according to you,not our sources lol.If you look at WHOLE world's sources,you'll see that Turks are not Iranian.

[payam]

haha ok he was with me but in truth u are that haha:laugh4:

[payam]

i dont know about whole soources but we saw so many wrong things from whole sources and it cant be strange they did that!
at last we are against super powers which have all sources one thier hands
and u ppl are thier friends

[payam]

attacking iran in anyway is one of thier program
and 1 is historical attacking to make ppl of that country non-national beelieve

[payam]

well at last ur country turkey hate from having an strong iran in the region!
well thats natural all countries are in the world!
cuase it can influance them
and iran has so many potential for that cuase of historical cultural reasons

[snc128]

hi guys..
please get over it..
blind nationalism has harmed us more than anything..

turks and iranians have coexisted for centuries and insha'allah will continue to do so..
i aggre with my heart.thank u
but there is one truth.neither Turks are real Turks(in Turkiye ),nor Iranians are real Persians (in Iran).all of us brother who have common values.

[dogukan]

hahaaaaaaa otmani were the arabic countries leader and also they wereeeeeeeeeeeeeeee cuase attaturk did a right job for west
and now iran is he base of islam
just see how we are againts anti muslims and ur gov always are with thier chifs(us)

ahauahuah WOW,i didn't see this kind of ignorance before.
You say Atatürk was the pet of Brits,i laugh at this with my ***.Did you even beat Brits,cuzz Atatürk beat them in both 1.WW and Indepence war.

You should see that people are living more happy in secular countries.In extreme religious countries only,extremists live happily

[payam]

hahaa the persian story finished so thousand years ago
we have so many groups in our land and im sure they were not otmani hahaaaaaaa
u were some years in iran land so dont try to change it baby

[dogukan]

well at last ur country turkey hate from having an strong iran in the region!
well thats natural all countries are in the world!
cuase it can influance them
and iran has so many potential for that cuase of historical cultural reasons

We just do not want Iran with nukes.
+I never said Iranian lands are Turkish lol.But Turks ruled over Iranians.

[payam]

we all parsis/turks/kurd/lors/... all are iranian and all made our history at time

[payam]

well also we had a persian kingdom some hunderd years ago too
so as u see all were in try to make it in iran land
so we are all iranian

[payam]

well turks kingdom used farsi to conecct all ppl in nation together
it was our nation language for many years
and our culture had so many difrences with ottmanis

[snc128]

dont have individual polemics

[dogukan]

well also we had a persian kingdom some hunderd years ago too
so as u see all were in try to make it in iran land
so we are all iranian

Yeah, for example Brits are also Iranian.And Greeks because Persians fought aganist them.In battle the blood of Persian soldiers passed to Greeks.So they're also Iranian.And Alexander,his empire was on Iranian lands so he was also an Iranian right?? LOL
You're funny and Turks are not Iranian.Kurds are Iranian but not Turks.Turk and Iranian is two different things,just like Chinese,Greek,Slav.Got it?

[payam]

well we are diffrent miniorites than when u make them together u can see iran also some countries like turkamanestan ghazaghestan ozbakestan tajikestan afghanestan and.. were in our nation called iran

[payam]

ozbaks/turkamas/ghazaghs knew farsi too! but soviet made it our of their first nation and now they know russian not farsi

[payam]

also same with armenia/georgia/azarbayjan republic

[snc128]

Turks are ruled Iran terretories over years.this true
but also,Iranian culture has an influence on Turks' culture.
as a conclusion,both sides have cooperated and coworked until...

[dogukan]

well turks kingdom used farsi to conecct all ppl in nation together
it was our nation language for many years
and our culture had so many difrences with ottmanis

It doesn't mean they were ıranian just because they used Parsi.The people living in the empire,the nucleus of empire was speaking Turkish.

The royal people were using the language called Ottomanish,which is a mixture of Parsi,Turkish and Arabic

[dogukan]

Turks are ruled Iran terretories over years.this true
but also,Iranian culture has an influence on Turks' culture.
as a conclusion,both sides have cooperated and coworked until...
It's okay,but this doesn't make us Iranian.Thats all i want to say.

[payam]

and my brother ont give me such as that info again
i know we are brother and im honest but about iran its our land and dont be wrong on it
i have no blind nationalism kind of beliefs

[payam]

and my brother ont give me such as that info again
i know we are brother and im honest but about iran its our land and dont be wrong on it
i had no blind nationalism kind of beliefs!but i know in so many countries in the region they are trying to attack iran history
like arabs they call persian gulf as arabic gulf!!!!!!!!!!!!!:frown3:

[snc128]

payam,it is a good thing to love your homeland.but generally dogukan gives us true historical informations

[payam]

well as i said 1 of american/zionism programs is attacking iran historical things in any case !(with the hand of thier babies in the region

[dogukan]

and my brother ont give me such as that info again
i know we are brother and im honest but about iran its our land and dont be wrong on it
i had no blind nationalism kind of beliefs!but i know in so many countries in the region they are trying to attack iran history
like arabs they call persian gulf as arabic gulf!!!!!!!!!!!!!:frown3:
Look!!!!!
YES WE ARE BROTHERS AND I LIKE IRANIANS,i myself have Iranian blood in my veins(and Turkish).But i'm a Turk,i love Turkish history and Turkic people.
Turks are not Iranian,this doesn't make us enemies.

ANother common thing is,the people in this region also want to destroy our history,culture and want to seperate our country.The head of all these stuff is USA,they're our enemies,not American people but their politics.

Lets end this conversation for today cuz my connection is screwed.

[snc128]

dont forget,1. nationalist is devil.it said fire is superior than soil

[payam]

yes im sure on it and hope all be right in things
so hope all say things with open eyes

[payam]

Look!!!!!
YES WE ARE BROTHERS AND I LIKE IRANIANS,i myself have Iranian blood in my veins(and Turkish).But i'm a Turk,i love Turkish history and Turkic people.
Turks are not Iranian,this doesn't make us enemies.

ANother common thing is,the people in this region also want to destroy our history,culture and want to seperate our country.The head of all these stuff is USA,they're our enemies,not American people but their politics.

Lets end this conversation for today cuz my connection is screwed.

seeeeeeeee i m turk toooo!im not agaitns turkey
but see my brother iran is not agaitns turks!cuase we made it historyy for yearsss! also we are all brothers and with 1 blood! see we have so many miniorites in here and its a power for a country
iran means all miniorities not 1 ;) i just wanted to say this
but u think iran mean pars and its wrong
history ended and lets think about futuer
i know we are all againts usa politics!but allways gov are not in ppl way
see we are all brother so lets finish this :laugh4:
with love to my brothers in turkey

[snc128]

my brother open your eye with your heart,otherwise u will be fanaticism.i know u are not a fanatic but u are on that way as far as i understand.

[payam]

my brother open your eye with your heart,otherwise u will be fanaticism.i know u are not a fanatic but u are on that way as far as i understand.
i have same idea about u and thats why im saying lets leave cuase we cant understand each other

[snc128]

it is important what nation thinks,governments come and go.nation is here

[payam]

well the gov are making ppl beliefs! just see the turket now is so difftent from the turkey in otmani emperor! i dont want to say it is better or not i want to say gov with their beleifs will made wrong/good things on ppl brain

[snc128]

you see the seeable people from Turkiye,and the majority of people(no matter what is their nation) is how their ancestors are...they are just not famous,in addition no need to be famous.a believer doesnt need to be known as u know.
briefly it doesnt mean not to be knownn by u,doesnt mean they dont exist.

[snc128]

you can comment about the part that u see ,this is not ur fault

[azad]

dear پيام , dogukan and snc128

the main reason you don't understand each other is because none of you are actual experts on the language you are trying to communicate..

payam is trying to say that turks/azeris living in iran are regarded as iranian people.. he says that 'iranian' is not the name of an ethnicity but of a nation.. yet dogukan seems to be lacking this information..

on the other hand, i believe that turks living in iran have the right to exist as a seperate entity as long as the self proclaimed turks demand it.. actually i'd love to see turkish as an official language in iran..

the idiots living in my country denied the simple fact that kurds exist for decades.. kurds were labeled as mountain turks or kurdified turks which is so far away from the truth..

when this idiocy didn't work, they came up with another arguement.. they said that it is written in the turkish constitution that anyone living within the borders of turkey is a turk.. they picked up the name of a race and tried to make it the name of a nation.. will this work, certainly not..

any ideology that has lies as a foundation is doomed to fail..

as a muslim, ethnicity is something below my consideration.. and i don't enjoy nationalists, especially muslim ones, bragging about their ancestors.. to say the truth i find it rather idiotic..

so as a brother of yours, i beg to you to spend your energy on finding ways to unite us rather than dividie us..

[dogukan]

WAIT?!?!?!?
Payam was trying to say Turks are Iranian,he said ozbeks and others are Iranian.
I accept the fact that Azaris are Iranian.Kurds are Iranian too.But the people living in Turkey are not just Turks.There are plenty of minorities which are not Turks.All mixed,just like USA.They're called American but WHAT IS AMERICAN??Is there a race called American,no,but there are people from many nations.

[payam]

WAIT?!?!?!?
Payam was trying to say Turks are Iranian,he said ozbeks and others are Iranian.
I accept the fact that Azaris are Iranian.Kurds are Iranian too.But the people living in Turkey are not just Turks.There are plenty of minorities which are not Turks.All mixed,just like USA.They're called American but WHAT IS AMERICAN??Is there a race called American,no,but there are people from many nations.

who said ozbaks are iranian?i said we and turkamans/ozbaks/ghazaghs were a nation befor
this is what i said!
yes they are ppl from many nations for ex the kurd of tukey!so we cant call them iranian cause they are orginally persian(thier language is one of persian root language)!cuase they had and have diffrent history and movment with turkish nation!they are a member of turky and all they did for turkey is for turkish history
do u got what i wanted in all texts to say?
also here on iran we must respect to all miniorities
well our gov cant do a good job for all groups
there is no miniory in iran to be happy about it even parsis
cuase at last government didnt want to pay attention much to 1 and thats why they dont like to work for all
for example they didnt do a right job for improving farsi words
and they didnt do a right job for turks to use turkish name for thier kids
and for ex arabs in khozestan have some limited to use arabic in schools
well in some case government must do this!cuase as i said we have so many miniorities and its difficult to control all of them and make them all happy
at last we have an islamic one here and being turk or fars or ... is not important in political mopvments and activities!(its not important in anything)
as i said we are iranian and love are ppl in iran
BUT
all ppl in the world are same!we are all from ADAM
we are all muslim brothers!and islam can make all hearts one
this is what we must pay attention on and lets leave talking about history cuase the government will say the stories of history in any country like what they want!its political and its related to gov and how they were and be and they like to say truth or not and is it good for them or not!
for example in iran they didnt say the truth about what wrongs arabs did 1400 years ago to iranian ppl to not making hates in country!
arabs in that time destroyed all things we had.they were like maughol
take care

[snc128]

your last sentence is not suited u,Payam.do u agree with the defeatists.this is a myth that Arabs killed many ppl.you are swearing the sahabe unconsciously .this wrong belief belongs to defeatist of your region as your saying,haa?

[Arashi]

yes they are ppl from many nations for ex the kurd of tukey!so we cant call them iranian cause they are orginally persian(thier language is one of persian root language)!cuase they had and have diffrent history and movment with turkish nation!they are a member of turky and all they did for turkey is for turkish history

There's a CLEAR difference between Persians and Iranic. The Kurdish language's root is NOT Persian. Kurds are NOT Persians. They are of a different branch of Iranic peoples - with a seperate history, culture, branch of languages, etc. Just like the Azaris aren't Persians, Balochis aren't Persians, Mazandaranis aren't Persians, etc...

[snc128]

anyway Payam is speaking about language.he claims that having similar languages dont mean you belong to that nation whose language is similar to yours,those days.
to tell the truth Kurdish is similar to Iranian language.but this doesnt make Kurds, Iranian.

[payam]

your last sentence is not suited u,Payam.do u agree with the defeatists.this is a myth that Arabs killed many ppl.you are swearing the sahabe unconsciously .this wrong belief belongs to defeatist of your region as your saying,haa?
dont think with saying these and attacking me and changing topic u can show all i said is wrong!
this is a myth that Arabs killed many ppl???????are u sure? so they came and said hello iranian brother hohoooooo! with this u said me u no notthing
just go and read old arabic book!!!!!!!! just gooooooo!just gooooooo!
see what they said about that time!burning all the things!attacking all the onesss!with which reason??????? being kafurrr!being AJAm!ALSO even nowdays u can go and see what saudi arabs think about iran!like some servants that they were and are iranian chiefs!!!!!
and just see how they were and are happy about that!so as u said they didnt kill anyone huh???????? they were not the real face of a muslim!
and also i didnt say anything else why u put things on my mouth?offffffffffffffffffffff!


There's a CLEAR difference between Persians and Iranic. The Kurdish language's root is NOT Persian. Kurds are NOT Persians. They are of a different branch of Iranic peoples - with a seperate history, culture, branch of languages, etc. Just like the Azaris aren't Persians, Balochis aren't Persians, Mazandaranis aren't Persians, etc...

see my brother the fact is that we call all old iranic persian!im sure its not orginally true!but its usefull !at last it cant change anything cuase they are IRANIC!

[Arashi]

anyway Payam is speaking about language.he claims that having similar languages dont mean you belong to that nation whose language is similar to yours,those days.
to tell the truth Kurdish is similar to Iranian language.but this doesnt make Kurds, Iranian.

No, Azaris are a perfect example of language not being evidence of origin.
Kurds ARE Iranic/Aryan though...Their language is of Medean origin, and their origin and culture a mix of Hurrian/Medean and other people living in the area 6000-7000 years ago.

[payam]

i didnt said all kurd are iranian! im not like u to say all turks are from turkey

[Arashi]

this is a myth that Arabs killed many ppl???????are u sure? so they came and said hello iranian brother hohoooooo! with this u said me u no notthing
just go and read old arabic book!!!!!!!! just gooooooo!just gooooooo!
see what they said about that time!burning all the things!attacking all the onesss!with which reason??????? being kafurrr!being AJAm!ALSO even nowdays u can go and see what saudi arabs think about iran!like some animal that they were iranian chiefs!!!!!
and just see how they were and are happy about that!so as u said they didnt kill anyone huh???????? they were not the real face of a muslim!
and also i didnt say anything else why u put things on my mouth?offffffffffffffffffffff!

I've seen alot of non-Iranians on this forum trying to excuse what the Arabs did to Iran, or just outright DENY it...it's sickening :huh2:

[payam]

so Arashi u want to say that arabs were iranian lover huh??
so u dont know what they did to iranian nation?
i didnt tell this to make hate
i just said it to tell u all the things is not like that u know cuase somtimes gov must stop telling them to not making hates on ppl

[Arashi]

so Arashi u want to say that arabs were iranian lover huh??
so u dont know what they did to iranian nation?
i didnt tell this to make hate
i just said it to tell u all the things is not like that u know cuase somtimes gov must stop telling them to not making hates on ppl

You misunderstand me, I agree with you!
I'm saying people who DENY the Arabs tried to destroy Iranian culture, Iranian languages, Iranian religion, are fools!

[Mr.Perfect]

I've seen alot of non-Iranians on this forum trying to excuse what the Arabs did to Iran, or just outright DENY it...it's sickening :huh2:

the world is a balanced place, the bad things that you have done in your passed it will get back to you and hunts you down, any oppressor will face justice or its for fathers will, the mighty will fall by the same way they have risen, the justice will be served in this world and none could avoid it, Arabs, Persians, Americans, Zionists and etc… have or will get hit by the power of justice whether they like or not. Look at your passed and think about your future and wait for your time to come.

[snc128]

the world is a balanced place, the bad things that you have done in your passed it will get back to you and hunts you down, any oppressor will face justice or its for fathers will, the mighty will fall by the same way they have risen, the justice will be served in this world and none could avoid it, Arabs, Persians, Americans, Zionists and etc… have or will get hit by the power of justice whether they like or not. Look at your passed and think about your future and wait for your time to come.

so;what happened to after death.

[payam]

justice/justice/justice/justice
what i want in this dark world reaaaaaaaaly!what all need
well i cant be quite againts somthing that is not true
just for justice

[snc128]

You misunderstand me, I agree with you!
I'm saying people who DENY the Arabs tried to destroy Iranian culture, Iranian languages, Iranian religion, are fools!
you are talking nonsense.you are swearing to sahaba.take care.Iranian culture is a strong culture.its influence is very much in Turkiye.besides,if they have wanted to destroy Persian values,they would have done it.
Islam has come with tolerance.

[payam]

you are talking nonsense.you are swearing to sahaba.take care.Iranian culture is a strong culture.its influence is very much in Turkiye.besides,if they have wanted to destroy Persian values,they would have done it.
Islam has come with tolerance.
first of all u mean islam HAD come with that?????
brother iranian were aware ppl and they accepted islam as the religion
but the thing that u cant denny is what arabs did to iran!just go and read old arabic books about that!its natural and im in shocked why u are trying to denny?

[Arashi]

you are talking nonsense.you are swearing to sahaba.take care.Iranian culture is a strong culture.its influence is very much in Turkiye.besides,if they have wanted to destroy Persian values,they would have done it.
Islam has come with tolerance.

Does it seem as if I care if I am swearing to "Sahaba"? The Tâzis destroyed enough in Irân - if it hadn't been for the Iranians selfdetermination, Irân would've been like Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and other "Arab" countries - where the former culture, language, religion have been WIPED clean off the earth by the oh-so tolerant Arabs.

Man, am I glad I'm not speaking Arabic today.

[Mr.Perfect]

Does it seem as if I care if I am swearing to "Sahaba"? The Tâzis destroyed enough in Irân - if it hadn't been for the Iranians selfdetermination, Irân would've been like Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and other "Arab" countries - where the former culture, language, religion have been WIPED clean off the earth by the oh-so tolerant Arabs.

Man, am I glad I'm not speaking Arabic today.

count me in as of your happiness brother. Us the new generation should preserve what our grand fathers did and transfer this culture to our children, the most important of all is our new year and charshanbe sory.

[payam]

Does it seem as if I care if I am swearing to "Sahaba"? The Tâzis destroyed enough in Irân - if it hadn't been for the Iranians selfdetermination, Irân would've been like Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and other "Arab" countries - where the former culture, language, religion have been WIPED clean off the earth by the oh-so tolerant Arabs.

Man, am I glad I'm not speaking Arabic today.

yes at last true

[Arashi]

count me in as of your happiness brother. Us the new generation should preserve what our grand fathers did and transfer this culture to our children, the most important of all is our new year and charshanbe sory.

People don't understand what Iranians went through just to preserve small things like Norouz and OUR BELOVED LANGUAGE, under the Arabs' reign...Jashne Tirgân, Jashne Mehregân are almost lost, and the HUNDREDS of festivals we had are already lost - the things left should be cherished and, yes, as you say, never be forgotten, and transfered to future generations.

[payam]

count me in as of your happiness brother. Us the new generation should preserve what our grand fathers did and transfer this culture to our children, the most important of all is our new year and charshanbe sory.
yes accept with this too
yes true and i didnt say what it happend i was talking about another (why gov dont like to say it to ppl)

[payam]

sooooo goood friendddd :biggrin1:
all the things finished by love
so let me free i want to go bed :roflmao3:

[snc128]

Does it seem as if I care if I am swearing to "Sahaba"? The Tâzis destroyed enough in Irân - if it hadn't been for the Iranians selfdetermination, Irân would've been like Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and other "Arab" countries - where the former culture, language, religion have been WIPED clean off the earth by the oh-so tolerant Arabs.

Man, am I glad I'm not speaking Arabic today.

u must respect to another ppl in forum.if u swear my values another one ll swear your values.respect.1. ly respect.
not the history but the ppl.because of being humankind

[snc128]

Iranians,i cant believe how crushed u feel urselves.

[snc128]

sometimes the mask falls down and the ugly face comes up.

[payam]

sometimes the mask falls down and the ugly face comes up.
huh u must not judge a nation with a sentences!and arashi didnt say anyithng worng!well he said ssome nation for ex like egypt befor arabs had some other kind of language or culture!
also im not arabs hater my labanies friend! i have so many arab friends and we are talking about history and dont want to bother anyone
and we iranian are not anti arabs or anti american or anti jews or .....
we are talking about history and we must be honstly on it
and yes if i said somthing wrong againts arab(i didnt) sorry about it
:biggrin1: arabs are our brothers so what is wrong with it?
in south of iran we have so many arabs!all are our brothers and we are all family!we are talking abotu what saudi arabs did to iran 1400 years ago!and i just said it to say that gov in iran dont like to talk about it in any case cuase it will make hte on ppl(also gov are saying that after that iranian were in better situation-which all of us know its a lie to not having hating air)
so as u see we dont have any mask
why some christian labanies are this much anti iranian? we are not with shia labanies we are supporting all labanies land and ppl
why u are always trying to attack us in any way u can?i didnt see that even from americans!haha
but i like u brother dont worry its all ur idea :wub2: and its respectable

[king0fpersia]

ok i man azery we shuldent really argue for this. lets think about 11th of september ive send a good video check it out. check the political form.

[Arashi]

u must respect to another ppl in forum.if u swear my values another one ll swear your values.respect.1. ly respect.
not the history but the ppl.because of being humankind

I don't even know what "Sahaba" is. You're insulting our ancestors and forefathers by denying the sacrifices they did for us.

[Abu-Jihad]

What is the reason for racing of races here ?! Now we arranged as what we arranged and we are all Humans !

[Abu-Jihad]

People don't understand what Iranians went through just to preserve small things like Norouz and OUR BELOVED LANGUAGE, under the Arabs' reign...Jashne Tirgân, Jashne Mehregân are almost lost, and the HUNDREDS of festivals we had are already lost - the things left should be cherished and, yes, as you say, never be forgotten, and transfered to future generations.

There was not an Islamic regime there in the history length everytime and you know shah regime couped because of looting Islamic believes and ressurcting what you said against Islam .and the events you named forgotten because they have not gravity in social view and if there was something you could have a demonstration for it every year and claim it against gvt. .... And because you have not social base you take your problem against (ARABS!!!!) , that is not regime related and you know these events runs every year in Iran from zoroastrian side and regime allows . So I think your anxiety is the power of Islam in society that I am pro for this true religion . NO WAY :)

It's clear that you are in informing your believes and publicize it . but I advise you expand your puiblisization candidly ....it might be better without lies :)

[snc128]

What is the reason for racing of races here ?! Now we arranged as what we arranged and we are all Humans !

this is what i say

[dogukan]

ohh Arabs,they killed Turks too.They were always jealous,they also hit Ottomans in the back during the 1.WW!!!!!!

[snc128]

ur ambitions dogukan.not all Arabs but mostly the ones who r Christian.u also forget what ittihad and terakki did.they r murderers

[azad]

dogukan, abi bak kötü bişey demiyim diyorum ama ikrah geldi artık bu araplar bizi arkadan hançerledi geyiğinden..
osmanlıya, türklere ve hatta islam alemine en büyük ihaneti araplar, vahhabiler falan filan diil 1908'de bab-ı ali'yi rehin alan ittihad ve terakki denilen ne idüğü belirsiz insan bozuntuları yapmıştır.. bu alçaklar kabe'yi bombalıycak kadar alçalmışlardır da nedense bizim tarih kitapları bundan hiç bahsetmez..
türkiye tarihi - resmi devlet ideolojisi - yalanlar üzerine kuruludur.. lise tarihi kitabı bilgisinin dışına çıkabilen her aklı başında insan bunu farkeder.. nolur kendinizi eğitin biraz..

[snc128]

bu şeref yoksunları bütün bi Suriye ahalisini katleşmiş,Lübnan da bu adamlar yüzünden günlerce dışarı çıkılamamış.başa geçen din düşmanı Arap düşmanı dien hristiyan Arap aristokratları ingiliz fransız desteği ile kısa sürede büyüdü

[dogukan]

dogukan, abi bak kötü bişey demiyim diyorum ama ikrah geldi artık bu araplar bizi arkadan hançerledi geyiğinden..
osmanlıya, türklere ve hatta islam alemine en büyük ihaneti araplar, vahhabiler falan filan diil 1908'de bab-ı ali'yi rehin alan ittihad ve terakki denilen ne idüğü belirsiz insan bozuntuları yapmıştır.. bu alçaklar kabe'yi bombalıycak kadar alçalmışlardır da nedense bizim tarih kitapları bundan hiç bahsetmez..
türkiye tarihi - resmi devlet ideolojisi - yalanlar üzerine kuruludur.. lise tarihi kitabı bilgisinin dışına çıkabilen her aklı başında insan bunu farkeder.. nolur kendinizi eğitin biraz..
Türkçe konuşunca fırçalıolar,ingilizceminde kusuruna bakma :)


And can you tell me,what's your ideology.You sound like you're aganist Atatürk

[dogukan]

bu şeref yoksunları bütün bi Suriye ahalisini katleşmiş,Lübnan da bu adamlar yüzünden günlerce dışarı çıkılamamış.başa geçen din düşmanı Arap düşmanı dien hristiyan Arap aristokratları ingiliz fransız desteği ile kısa sürede büyüdü

and whats your ideology?

[snc128]

do i have to have a definite ideology to speak about anything.
my discipline is to tell what is true at the right time.

[Mr.Perfect]

do not use non English language in this forum for discussions.

[kaiser_tr]

someone said that selijuks are iranian...


that buddy please check this wikipedia link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuq_dynasty


it says turkic...not iranian....dont seize our cultere=)

[Shapur 2]

someone said that selijuks are iranian...


that buddy please check this wikipedia link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuq_dynasty


it says turkic...not iranian....dont seize our cultere=)

I said by turkish logic, they were iranians.

[payam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuq_dynasty
I said by turkish logic, they were iranians.
TRUE so what im talking about 1 years?

[Shapur 2]

a propeganda.....

no, they were indeed turkic origionally. however, if we use Turkish logic, they were iranian of the persian ethnic group.

[payam]

TRUE. SEE these guys cant understand that being iranian cant have any diffrences by being turk :D ohhhhh what ordoghan made from thier brains :D

[Shapur 2]

TRUE. SEE these guys cant understand that being iranian cant have any diffrences by being turk :D ohhhhh what ordoghan made from thier brains :D

Here is what TUrkish historians claim. Turkish historians say that anyone who speaks a turkish dialect, no matter what their genes are, no matter what their history is, no matter what their culture is, is automatically turkic.

That is why they claim Azari's as being turkic, even though they are genetically, historically, and culturally Iranic.

Now using the same logic that Turkish historians use, the seljuks must have been iranians right? because they used the persian language, they adopted iranian culture, AND THEY CLAIMED TO BE DESCENDENTS OF THE SASSANIDS.

however, true historians, who use facts instead of pan turkish logic, know that the seljuks were indeed of turkic origin and not Iranics origionally.

[payam]

Here is what TUrkish historians claim. Turkish historians say that anyone who speaks a turkish dialect, no matter what their genes are, no matter what their history is, no matter what their culture is, is automatically turkic.

That is why they claim Azari's as being turkic, even though they are genetically, historically, and culturally Iranic.


Now using the same logic that Turkish historians use, the seljuks must have been iranians right? because they used the persian language, they adopted iranian culture, AND THEY CLAIMED TO BE DESCENDENTS OF THE SASSANIDS.
saljuks were in iran so many years befor creating a kingdom yes true

owever, true historians, who use facts instead of pan turkish logic, know that the seljuks were indeed of turkic origin and not Iranics origionally

yes they are exaclly iranian cuase iran means all miniorities that made it history and we have so many groups like them cuase of our 7 thousands history....

[snc128]

Here is what TUrkish historians claim. Turkish historians say that anyone who speaks a turkish dialect, no matter what their genes are, no matter what their history is, no matter what their culture is, is automatically turkic.

That is why they claim Azari's as being turkic, even though they are genetically, historically, and culturally Iranic.

Now using the same logic that Turkish historians use, the seljuks must have been iranians right? because they used the persian language, they adopted iranian culture, AND THEY CLAIMED TO BE DESCENDENTS OF THE SASSANIDS.

however, true historians, who use facts instead of pan turkish logic, know that the seljuks were indeed of turkic origin and not Iranics origionally.
come on my man.we are considering native language.even in Ottoman palaces ******* and Iranian lang. were spoken,but their native language was Turkish.they would use those lang. for pleasure or to be different.so ,do Seljuks.Lang. ,s very important.how can u explain that their native language is Turkisk,if they are considere as pure Iranians.

[payam]

come on my man.we are considering native language.even in Ottoman palaces ******* and Iranian lang. were spoken,but their native language was Turkish.they would use those lang. for pleasure or to be different.so ,do Seljuks.Lang. ,s very important.how can u explain that their native language is Turkisk,if they are considere as pure Iranians.

my friend why u cant get us??? we said the fact 1000 times .read them again...

[Shapur 2]

come on my man.we are considering native language.even in Ottoman palaces ******* and Iranian lang. were spoken,but their native language was Turkish.they would use those lang. for pleasure or to be different.so ,do Seljuks.Lang. ,s very important.how can u explain that their native language is Turkisk,if they are considere as pure Iranians.

the seljuks didnt, they adopted persian as their language.

im telling you that by turkish logic this would be true buddy, i know the seljuks were turkic. turkish historians use that kind of logic, thats why i said by the logic of turkish historians, then seljuks should not be turks.

[snc128]

the seljuks didnt, they adopted persian as their language.

im telling you that by turkish logic this would be true buddy, i know the seljuks were turkic. turkish historians use that kind of logic, thats why i said by the logic of turkish historians, then seljuks should not be turks.
u dont understand me.they use ur lang. just for pleasure.not to communicate with each other.for instance,Melikshah wrote very good persian poems,he was good at persian literature.but this doesnt mean that their native lang was Persian or what u called.again they were speaking Turkish widely.
actually the example of Seljuks was not sensible.because Seljuks was not a homogeneous country.all 3 lang.s were spoken widely.anyway they divided into 4 states.anatolian,kirman,syrian and iraq-horasan Seljuks.but most of the ppl was Turk and thus the Seljuks known as Turkish c.:)

[Shapur 2]

u dont understand me.they use ur lang. just for pleasure.not to communicate with each other.for instance,Melikshah wrote very good persian poems,he was good at persian literature.but this doesnt mean that their native lang was Persian or what u called.again they were speaking Turkish widely.
actually the example of Seljuks was not sensible.because Seljuks was not a homogeneous country.all 3 lang.s were spoken widely.anyway they divided into 4 states.anatolian,kirman,syrian and iraq-horasan Seljuks.but most of the ppl was Turk and thus the Seljuks known as Turkish c.:)

actually no. the seljuks did not speak turkish amongst themselves after they adopted persian. it was not until the seljuk empire broke up and a small kingdom was founded in Rum did they start speaking turkish again.

[snc128]

never mind,u r telling what u memorize.no worth spending time.thank u for the conversation:)

[payam]

Viva Iran :D

[kaiser_tr]

actually no. the seljuks did not speak turkish amongst themselves after they adopted persian. it was not until the seljuk empire broke up and a small kingdom was founded in Rum did they start speaking turkish again.



dude give as some source if you insist on seljuks were speakig persian...


all independent sources on internet say seljuks are turks..so what are you fighting for???

[dogukan]

Seljuks were Turk.Actually they are the founders of the name "Iran".Because they loved Persian culture and called Persian lands as Iran.I know what Iranian people are so do not get into that again.Names can change you know.

Back to topic,
Seljuks were Turk
look at these names do they sond Iranian
Selçuk BEY(bey is a word used by Turks)
forget this one :)
Tuğrul bey and Çağrı bey
Alparslan
Sultan Sancar
These are Turkic names.I do know Seljuks were naming themselves as Persian.Even Ottomans didn't call themselves Turks.They though it's something to be ashamed of.
They ruled over Iranians and Turks but the army and the leaders were Turk.


BTW there wasn't any natioanlsim in those times so it didn't matter for them much.They called themselved Seljuks not Turks,not Iranians.Ottomans also came out from Seljuks.Both the Ottomans and Seljuks were Turkic.Thats a fact.
What the hell is wrong with people,every nation is trying to absord our culture lol.

[Shapur 2]

dude give as some source if you insist on seljuks were speakig persian...


all independent sources on internet say seljuks are turks..so what are you fighting for???

Seljuks were Turk.Actually they are the founders of the name "Iran".Because they loved Persian culture and called Persian lands as Iran.I know what Iranian people are so do not get into that again.Names can change you know.

Back to topic,
Seljuks were Turk
look at these names do they sond Iranian
Selçuk BEY(bey is a word used by Turks)
forget this one :)
Tuğrul bey and Çağrı bey
Alparslan
Sultan Sancar
These are Turkic names.I do know Seljuks were naming themselves as Persian.Even Ottomans didn't call themselves Turks.They though it's something to be ashamed of.
They ruled over Iranians and Turks but the army and the leaders were Turk.


BTW there wasn't any natioanlsim in those times so it didn't matter for them much.They called themselved Seljuks not Turks,not Iranians.Ottomans also came out from Seljuks.Both the Ottomans and Seljuks were Turkic.Thats a fact.
What the hell is wrong with people,every nation is trying to absord our culture lol.


I know they are turks, thats what i have been saying for the past several posts! LOL.

I'm saying that by the logic turkish historians use, the seljuks should not be considered Turkic. I'm trying to show you guys that there is lots of historical revisionism in turkish education when it comes to history, thats it.

and yes, the seljuks did use persian. some of the most reputable encyclopaedia's in the world says so, including brittanica and iranica. you cant beat that buddy.

also, regarding the name Iran. I dont know who told you that Iran is a turkic name LOL, its been used for 3000 years by Iranians LMAO

Can you please tell me who told you that Iran is a turkish name?

[Kardash]

He doesnt say "Iran" is an Turkish name, it is persian -he meand; the name Iran (persian name for aryan?) whas used as a name by an Turkish Seljuk-i atabeylik in current Iran, wich is Iran shah (there whas also an Turan shah but its another point).

[Shapur 2]

He doesnt say "Iran" is an Turkish name, it is persian -he meand; the name Iran (persian name for aryan?) whas used as a name by an Turkish Seljuk-i atabeylik in current Iran, wich is Iran shah (there whas also an Turan shah but its another point).

so there was a shah called Iran shah?

[Kardash]

so there was a shah called Iran shah?

Seljuk Rulers of Kerman 1041-1187

Kerman was a nation in southern Persia. It fell in 1187, probably conquered by Toğrül III of Great Seljuk.

* Qawurd 1041-1073
* Kerman Shah 1073-1074
* Sultan Shah 1074-1075
* Hussain Omar 1075-1084
* Turan Shah I 1084-1096
* Iran Shah 1096-1101
* Arslan Shah I 1101-1142
* Mehmed I (Muhammad) 1142-1156
* Toğrül Shah 1156-1169
* Bahram Shah 1169-1174
* Arslan Shah II 1174-1176
* Turan Shah II 1176-1183
* Mehmed II (Muhammad) 1183-1187

[Shapur 2]

Seljuk Rulers of Kerman 1041-1187

Kerman was a nation in southern Persia. It fell in 1187, probably conquered by Toğrül III of Great Seljuk.

* Qawurd 1041-1073
* Kerman Shah 1073-1074
* Sultan Shah 1074-1075
* Hussain Omar 1075-1084
* Turan Shah I 1084-1096
* Iran Shah 1096-1101
* Arslan Shah I 1101-1142
* Mehmed I (Muhammad) 1142-1156
* Toğrül Shah 1156-1169
* Bahram Shah 1169-1174
* Arslan Shah II 1174-1176
* Turan Shah II 1176-1183
* Mehmed II (Muhammad) 1183-1187
he clearly said that turks founded the name iran...

[dogukan]

I know they are turks, thats what i have been saying for the past several posts! LOL.

I'm saying that by the logic turkish historians use, the seljuks should not be considered Turkic. I'm trying to show you guys that there is lots of historical revisionism in turkish education when it comes to history, thats it.

and yes, the seljuks did use persian. some of the most reputable encyclopaedia's in the world says so, including brittanica and iranica. you cant beat that buddy.

also, regarding the name Iran. I dont know who told you that Iran is a turkic name LOL, its been used for 3000 years by Iranians LMAO

Can you please tell me who told you that Iran is a turkish name?

OWww sorry i got you know :)
The name Iran was given by Turks.Means land of Iran.Like the name Turkey was given by others.

[dogukan]

I can not show proofs for this "Iran name" stuff so i'm taking it back

[dogukan]

BTW we've totally lost Payam now.There is no way to convince him that Turks are not Iranian now.

[Arashi]

The name Iran was given by Turks.Means land of Iran.Like the name Turkey was given by others.

Iran comes from Aryana = Land of Aryans. It's mentioned in the Avesta and Gathas thousands of years before the Turks made contact with Iranians.

Do they seriously teach you stuff like that in school? :worried2:

[snc128]

Iran comes from Aryana = Land of Aryans. It's mentioned in the Avesta and Gathas thousands of years before the Turks made contact with Iranians.

Do they seriously teach you stuff like that in school? :worried2:

and u have a brilliant forecasting ability about where dogukan was taught such kind of infos.there r millions of books which tells what they want according to their political desires..understand?

[Arashi]

and u have a brilliant forecasting ability about where dogukan was taught such kind of infos.there r millions of books which tells what they want according to their political desires..understand?

If my forecasting ability was brilliant, I wouldn't ask, I'd simply state it.

[snc128]

If my forecasting ability was brilliant, I wouldn't ask, I'd simply state it.i m sorry but u dont understand me because Eng. is not ur native lang.
anyway, i wanted to state that u havent a forecasting ability by using the word 'brilliant'.:):xmas_emot3:

[Arashi]

i m sorry but u dont understand me because Eng. is not ur native lang.
anyway, i wanted to state that u havent a forecasting ability by using the word 'brilliant'.:):xmas_emot3:

Oh, so you were sarcastic :) OK, sorry, sarcasm can be pretty difficult to convey through text sometimes. :xmas_emot3:

[Shapur 2]

OWww sorry i got you know :)
The name Iran was given by Turks.Means land of Iran.Like the name Turkey was given by others.

I can not show proofs for this "Iran name" stuff so i'm taking it back

BTW we've totally lost Payam now.There is no way to convince him that Turks are not Iranian now.

Iran is an Iranic name. it has been used for thousands of years. please tell me where you even got the idea that Iran came from the turkic language.

Turk comes from chinese
Turan comes from persian (the opposite of the word Iran, used to describe Iranic people who were not followers of Zoroastrianism)
Iran comes from Aryan languages (Iranic)
Tajik comes from Turkic, describing central asian persians
Ajam comes from Arabic, referring to persians
Turkestan comes from Persian, meaning land of the Turks

etc...

Those are terms i think you need to understand before you make comments like the above.

Payam is an interesting person. just goes to show that Pan Turkists cannot win against the nationalism of the Iranian people, no matter what ethnic group they are from..

[dogukan]

Iran is an Iranic name. it has been used for thousands of years. please tell me where you even got the idea that Iran came from the turkic language.

Turk comes from chinese
Turan comes from persian (the opposite of the word Iran, used to describe Iranic people who were not followers of Zoroastrianism)
Iran comes from Aryan languages (Iranic)
Tajik comes from Turkic, describing central asian persians
Ajam comes from Arabic, referring to persians
Turkestan comes from Persian, meaning land of the Turks

etc...

Those are terms i think you need to understand before you make comments like the above.

Payam is an interesting person. just goes to show that Pan Turkists cannot win against the nationalism of the Iranian people, no matter what ethnic group they are from..
Okay.......
Payam is Iranian not a Turk.I guess he has some Turkish roots though.And he claims that Iranian Turks are the leader of all Turks lol

[payam]

Okay.......
Payam is Iranian not a Turk.I guess he has some Turkish roots though.And he claims that Iranian Turks are the leader of all Turks lol
ur sentences is not true from meaning: payam is iranian not a turk
cuase im iranian turk
hey u all are blind.........what i was talking about in all posts???????
we aer the turk of iran and u otman turks cant change anything
all we did is for iran history (and all turkish groups on it)and all u did is jsut for otman turks not all
so dont try to show us in ur history and story
we had diffrent movments and diffrent ideas
and im already turk and iranian(and thats true iran means the land of areyan but its just a meaning and its the land of all on it and all love it culture and it whole history)
all members in this tread persian or turk must leave wrong nationalism thinking and be honest in things
we all in iran are fightin for IRAN (in any miniorities we be) cuase iran in real means the lands of hundred miniorities and groups. cuase from our 7 thousands history persian are jusst some group from those hundreds and we all(persian-turk-kurd-lor...) brother with same culture and heart.
and if u people in turkey thought u can change our love to iran u are on dream.... why u otman turks thought u are the leader of turks????
we here are that

[payam]

Okay.......
Payam is Iranian not a Turk.I guess he has some Turkish roots though.And he claims that Iranian Turks are the leader of all Turks lol

ohhhhhhhh so im not turk cuase im not with u huh????????/
u otman turks need to learn more about othe culturess
im 100% turk and u must go and think about urself....
as i said befor u are 1 group from all turkish groups. not the leader or chief and the owner of thier history...so dont play with words

[dogukan]

Tell me Payam what makes you leader of Turks??
You just a Turkic-Iranian minority living in Iran which has probably no affect on Turkic or Iranian world.No one is leader of Turks nor Iranians.No one is the superior one and we're all equal.

Howewer there are more than 250 million Turks in
Turkistan+Iran+Europe and East of Russia

There aren't any leaders,Ottomans weren't the leaders too.The thing is they were the mightiest,strongest and most dominant Turkish Empire that has ever been built.Ottomans aren't leaders,they came out from their brothers in Central Asia.They're from Kayı part of the Oghuz clan.We Turkey Turks are mostly Oghuz Turks but there are others too.

You on the other hand(Kaş***),you're from a very little Turkic-ıranian minority which didn't do anything for Turkish history but for Iranian history.

You're really getting annoying,ok you're an Iranic Turk but most of the Turks are not Iranic they're just Turks.:tired1_24:

[Shapur 2]

Howewer there are more than 250 million Turks in
Turkistan+Iran+Europe and East of Russia


i thought the number was more like 180 million turkic speakers world wide?


We Turkey Turks are mostly Oghuz Turks but there are others too.

linguistically.



You on the other hand(Kaş***),you're from a very little Turkic-ıranian minority which didn't do anything for Turkish history but for Iranian history.

You're really getting annoying,ok you're an Iranic Turk but most of the Turks are not Iranic they're just Turks.:tired1_24:

There is not such thing as an Iranic turk. There are turks of the iranian nationality, like payam, who is proud of Iran and its history, and then there are turkic speakers of iranic descent, such as azari's. (actually, im not sure how much turkic genes Payam might have... he could be Iranic or semetic, dunno)

and your sort of right, turks from central asia are turks and not iranics, but turks west of central asia are only linguistically turkic. turks west of central asia re mostly descendents of caucasians, anatolians, semetics (arabs), indo-europeans (persians, armenians, kurds, greece, etc...). however, there are a minority who still have turkic genes left.

[payam]

Tell me Payam what makes you leader of Turks??
You just a Turkic-Iranian minority living in Iran which has probably no affect on Turkic or Iranian world.No one is leader of Turks nor Iranians.No one is the superior one and we're all equal.

Howewer there are more than 250 million Turks in
Turkistan+Iran+Europe and East of Russia

There aren't any leaders,Ottomans weren't the leaders too.The thing is they were the mightiest,strongest and most dominant Turkish Empire that has ever been built.Ottomans aren't leaders,they came out from their brothers in Central Asia.They're from Kayı part of the Oghuz clan.We Turkey Turks are mostly Oghuz Turks but there are others too.

You on the other hand(Kaş***),you're from a very little Turkic-ıranian minority which didn't do anything for Turkish history but for Iranian history.

You're really getting annoying,ok you're an Iranic Turk but most of the Turks are not Iranic they're just Turks




offfffffffff u are telling jokeeeeeee?
yes we iranian turks are not the leader of turks but i just said it cuase i saw u want to tell me(with ur tread and topic) that turks of iran are not alive and aall are otman's bondman..... yess all are equal same idea here....u first believe on what u want to say and writte ;)
like this=>>You're really getting annoying,ok you're an Iranic Turk but most of the Turks are not Iranic they're just Turks
and also qashqai is not a small miniory . it has 8 groups on it own.(and iran has so many groups of turks)
also learn to respect other turks. the things u otmans want to tell me is this: u are not iranian ===> result:u are from turkey so give the iran's land to the tukey....haha what a sick brain...respect to other turks nation'beliefs'culture'and history(for ex just go and read ((JUST)) qashqai history and see how many wars we had with britishs to protect our nation(iran) and what we did to them and how we made them crazy and despairing....)(like all others miniorities in iran in any kind and in any group)(be sure if we were not that we dont have anything named iran now)
iranian were always in fighting againt alienss and they cant understand being servant cuase our people were as the only (or sometimes 1 of)super power(s) nation from more than half of mankind's history...

[payam]

(actually, im not sure how much turkic genes Payam might have... he could be Iranic or semetic, dunno)
im 100% qashqai ;)(a full version) also u are talking about being iranic... so all in iran are iranic and for this word u must have a right and good and complete meaning......(not just being ariyan or smt else)

[Shapur 2]

im 100% qashqai ;)(a full version) also u are talking about being iranic... so all in iran are iranic and for this word u must have a right and good and complete meaning......(not just being ariyan or smt else)

Well, no one is 100%.

what distinguishes a person ethnically is their unique genetic marker.

[payam]

Well, no one is 100%
well im sure im 100% :D but yes in some case true(in far past maybe!!!!)

[dogukan]

I respect all Turks and love my brother,ancestor Turks.But Turks did noıt came out from Kaş*** Turks.
You're not the leader.

[payam]

I respect all Turks and love my brother,ancestor Turks.But Turks did noıt came out from Kaş*** Turks.
You're not the leader.

who said we are leader?????i just said it befor cuase i was nervous and cuase u would say we otman turks are the leader..no we are not the leader who said it?but the fact is this that we have a diffrent history infact...

[kaiser_tr]

after 1600's to 1900's ottoman empire was the leader of not only turks,all sunni muslims...

we didnt have much influence on iran.we fought a lot and no one was completly winner.




and about central asian turks;your idea about those turks are not turkic is just funny...in todays world genes mean nothing.whole world consider those people as turkic.and of course most of them consider themselves as turkic...no one cares about their genes.

[kaiser_tr]

from wikipedia;


The Turkic languages constitute a language family of some thirty languages, spoken across a vast area from Eastern Europe to Siberia and Western China with an estimated 140 million native speakers and tens of millions of second-language speakers.


so its about 160-170 million i guess

[Shapur 2]

and about central asian turks;your idea about those turks are not turkic is just funny...

what are you talking about? Central Asian turks are the only real ethnic turks. I said turks west of central asia are not ethnically turks.


in todays world genes mean nothing.whole world consider those people as turkic.and of course most of them consider themselves as turkic...no one cares about their genes.

so the seljuks were persian? genes dont matter right....

[kaiser_tr]

yeah genes dont matter but ideas do...evey historian considers seljuks as turk...not iranian,not persian,not kurdish...only turk

what you all learned at schools in iran is not an objective source of information on these matters.

[Shapur 2]

yeah genes dont matter but ideas do...evey historian considers seljuks as turk...not iranian,not persian,not kurdish...only turk

what you all learned at schools in iran is not an objective source of information on these matters.

But all historians know that seljuks spoke persian and practices iranian culture. brittanica and iranica both mention it, yet they still call them Turkic.

the same will soon happen with Turks, because as more DNA testing is done, people and historians know more as well.

right now, it is accepted by the international community that azari's were iranics who were turkified. historians also accept that anatolia was turkified.

so things will change soon. and notice, no encyclopaedia says "ethnically turkic" anymore.

even the russian encyclopaedia, published in 1890, differentiates between people who were turkic linguistically and people who were turkic ethnically.

for example, they call azerbaijani's turkic by langauge and iranians by race.

[kaiser_tr]

yet they still call them Turkic.




yes,they still call them turk...sometimes also Seljuq Turks.

[kaiser_tr]

right now, it is accepted by the international community that azari's were iranics who were turkified. historians also accept that anatolia was turkified.





no there are still two theories...

1-turkic theory
2-iranian theory

both of them still exist




and yes anatolia was turkified..no one denied that one..after seljuqs invaded iran and most of the central asia they reached to anatolian border.Alp-Arslan marched against Byzantine Empire and defeated the enemy.After this,nomadıc turkish tribes started to live in anatoliala..
http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9371227/Manzikert

[kaiser_tr]

so things will change soon. and notice, no encyclopaedia says "ethnically turkic" anymore.





yeah??so what will happen then?

one day all azeris,kazakhs,Kyrgyzs,turkmens and uzbeks will wake up turn their backs to turkey and build strong ties with Iran??

no offense but this is like mental+patriotic masturbation...



last words,no matter what dna tests say

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkic_states_and_empires

these countries are turkic...no one cares about their genes or language


most important thing is,they feel more closer to turkey

[Shapur 2]

yes,they still call them turk...sometimes also Seljuq Turks.

you dont seem to understand what im saying... Im showing you how illogical your logic is...



no there are still two theories...

1-turkic theory
2-iranian theory

both of them still exist


no, the iranian theory is THE only theory that is credible. the Turkic theory is not acknowledged by anyone except historical revisionists. the whole theory is based on not facts but historical revisionism.

no one accepts that theory.




and yes anatolia was turkified..no one denied that one..after seljuqs invaded iran and most of the central asia they reached to anatolian border.Alp-Arslan marched against Byzantine Empire and defeated the enemy.After this,nomadıc turkish tribes started to live in anatoliala..
http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9371227/Manzikert

and eventually they mixed show much that they lost their turkishness. only their language survived, and that is why turkey speaks turkish.

yeah??so what will happen then?

one day all azeris,kazakhs,Kyrgyzs,turkmens and uzbeks will wake up turn their backs to turkey and build strong ties with Iran??

no offense but this is like mental+patriotic masturbation...

listen to me. Central Asia turks are the ONLY ETHNIC TURKS. Kyrgyz's, uzbeks, ughyurs, kazakhs, and some turkmens are all turks ethincally. they have the genes and the physical charateristics.

however, Azari's are Iranians, Turks from turkey are a mix of indo europeans, semetics, caucasians, and anatolians, and people from the R. of "Azerbaijan" are caucasians.



last words,no matter what dna tests say

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkic_states_and_empires

these countries are turkic...no one cares about their genes or language


most important thing is,they feel more closer to turkey

actually, that is based on language :biggrin1:

[payam]

after 1600's to 1900's ottoman empire was the leader of not only turks,all sunni muslims...

we didnt have much influence on iran.we fought a lot and no one was completly winner.


are joking??????ur governments didnt tell u anything about iranian kingdoms???go back on pages and read what i wrotte.u otman turks were just the leader of arabs...not iranian turkss.....u never had even 1 part of our lands...majority of turkish countries now were some paart of our nation....so as i said just go find ur brothers on arab nations haha....

[payam]

im talking about thisd topi for 1 monthhhhh....just go and read what we wrotte....u are a new one here not me....so dont start it from first.....

[kaiser_tr]

it wouldnt matter if all azeris were %100 iranian...they stiil call themselves turk,when their president got sick he came to turkey not iran,when they need help they ask from us.we got economic ties,cultural and social ties.

they all may be %987958775894795845 iranian but this doesnt change the facts written up...


only iranians cares about the genes:)

[kaiser_tr]

are joking??????ur governments didnt tell u anything about iranian kingdoms???go back on pages and read what i wrotte.u otman turks were just the leader of arabs...not iranian turkss.....u never had even 1 part of our lands...majority of turkish countries now were some paart of our nation....so as i said just go find ur brothers on arab nations haha....


dude no one cares about iran...no offense but after persian empire you iranians were not active on worlds history...you conquered some central asian and maybe afghan-pakistan land and so??

in the other hand on the east we conquered all arab peninsula,egypt,libya,algeria,tunis and morrocco

on the west we destroyed eastern roman empire by conquering Istanbul,then we took greece,bulgaria,moldovia,hungary,serbia,bosnia,macedonia through the vien of austria...

we made blacksea a turkish lake...and mediterranean was in our control for a few hundred years

we sent troops even to indonesia!!!!!


why i am telling all these?? because i'm trying to explain that ottoman empire was a global force..and beetwen 1500's to 1700 it was the world's strongest empire...at those days when some one mentioned about muslims,the others would have thought that he was talking about ottomans..not iranians.


we may not be the leaders of iranian turks(i've never said that we were) but ottoman empire was the strongest muslim power ever.

[dogukan]

dude no one cares about iran...no offense but after persian empire you iranians were not active on worlds history...you conquered some central asian and maybe afghan-pakistan land and so??

in the other hand on the east we conquered all arab peninsula,egypt,libya,algeria,tunis and morrocco

on the west we destroyed eastern roman empire by conquering Istanbul,then we took greece,bulgaria,moldovia,hungary,serbia,bosnia,macedonia through the vien of austria...

we made blacksea a turkish lake...and mediterranean was in our control for a few hundred years

we sent troops even to indonesia!!!!!


why i am telling all these?? because i'm trying to explain that ottoman empire was a global force..and beetwen 1500's to 1700 it was the world's strongest empire...at those days when some one mentioned about muslims,the others would have thought that he was talking about ottomans..not iranians.


we may not be the leaders of iranian turks(i've never said that we were) but ottoman empire was the strongest muslim power ever.
and Turkish power ever :)

[Shapur 2]

i love it when people with a lack of historical knowledge get into debates like this with each other. amusing.

this goes to both payam and kaiser tr.

[kaiser_tr]

yeah and i like patriotic-ignorant iranians who think whole world is persian:)

[Shapur 2]

yeah and i like patriotic-ignorant iranians who think whole world is persian:)

you do? maybe its becuase you and them have the same type of ideas in common.

[kaiser_tr]

dude no one cares about iran...no offense but after persian empire you iranians were not active on worlds history...you conquered some central asian and maybe afghan-pakistan land and so??

in the other hand on the east we conquered all arab peninsula,egypt,libya,algeria,tunis and morrocco

on the west we destroyed eastern roman empire by conquering Istanbul,then we took greece,bulgaria,moldovia,hungary,serbia,bosnia,macedonia through the vien of austria...

we made blacksea a turkish lake...and mediterranean was in our control for a few hundred years

we sent troops even to indonesia!!!!!


why i am telling all these?? because i'm trying to explain that ottoman empire was a global force..and beetwen 1500's to 1700 it was the world's strongest empire...at those days when some one mentioned about muslims,the others would have thought that he was talking about ottomans..not iranians.


we may not be the leaders of iranian turks(i've never said that we were) but ottoman empire was the strongest muslim power ever.



tell me what's wrong with this message...show me someting that i made up

[Shapur 2]

dude no one cares about iran...no offense but after persian empire you iranians were not active on worlds history...you conquered some central asian and maybe afghan-pakistan land and so??

in the other hand on the east we conquered all arab peninsula,egypt,libya,algeria,tunis and morrocco

hmmm... Lets see, We conquered teh caucasus, afghanistan, turkmenistan, pakistan, north india, and parts of central middle east....

and the ottomans caputed the balkans, north africa, and the other half of the middle east....

I dont see the difference....



on the west we destroyed eastern roman empire by conquering Istanbul,then we took greece,bulgaria,moldovia,hungary,serbia,bosnia,macedonia through the vien of austria...

not a big deal buddy. the eastern roman empire was only a small kingdom by the time the turks got there. It was arabs and iranians that did all the work before that...



we made blacksea a turkish lake...and mediterranean was in our control for a few hundred years

we sent troops even to indonesia!!!!!

what does this have to do with anything?



why i am telling all these?? because i'm trying to explain that ottoman empire was a global force..and beetwen 1500's to 1700 it was the world's strongest empire...at those days when some one mentioned about muslims,the others would have thought that he was talking about ottomans..not iranians.

iran was just as strong as the ottoman empire. remember that the only nation the ottomans couldnt defeat was Iran.

and the ottomans represented muslims to the europeans because the ottomans were closer than Iran. if it was iran that was next to europe, it would have been the other way around.




we may not be the leaders of iranian turks(i've never said that we were) but ottoman empire was the strongest muslim power ever.

it was the last muslim power, but it wasnt the strongest. it was the arabs that created an empire stretching from spain to china. centuries before.

[payam]

i love it when people with a lack of historical knowledge get into debates like this with each other. amusing.

this goes to both payam and kaiser tr.

sHAPUR i didint say anything wrong.if u have problem with my saying go and read history...or temm me what i said wrong....but about my otman brothers yes true they dont have any info about history.....so dont wast ur time here ;)

[kaiser_tr]

hmmm... Lets see, We conquered teh caucasus, afghanistan, turkmenistan, pakistan, north india, and parts of central middle east....

and the ottomans caputed the balkans, north africa, and the other half of the middle east....

I dont see the difference....






its like "i drive a ferrari and you drive a fiat...so what's the difference??"


central asia,afghanistan etc.. means nothing comparing to all europeans.

everytime ottomans marched against europe,a mixture of european armies confronted us...sorry dude but ottoman's and iran's military victorys are not equal







not a big deal buddy. the eastern roman empire was only a small kingdom by the time the turks got there. It was arabs and iranians that did all the work before that...






no it was not..roman empire was on todays Iran border...so tell my how you took care of roman empire:)

it was again turks who defeated them at the battle of manzikert then settle down in anatolia

[payam]

no it was not..roman empire was on todays Iran border...so tell my how you took care of roman empire

it was again turks who defeated them at the battle of manzikert then settle down in anatolia

hey with all ur messenges u people cant change anythng.... i realy dont want to countinue cuase i gave all the answeres to all ur pointsss... go and read them again....

[kaiser_tr]

you iranians havent fought against a western country for such a long time...

as i remember the last time you did it was against Alexander and he whipped your asses...

germans,austrians,russians sometimes frenchs,italians and spanishs were our enemys...



ahh one more thing,ottomans never invaded iran..true...because they never wanted to do so.we attacked you only when you passed our borders and attack anatolia.our goal was europe.no one cares about your lands

[Pylyp Orlyk]

you iranians havent fought against a western country for such a long time...

as i remember the last time you did it was against Alexander and he whipped your asses...

germans,austrians,russians sometimes frenchs,italians and spanishs were our enemys...



ahh one more thing,ottomans never invaded iran..true...because they never wanted to do so.we attacked you only when you passed our borders and attack anatolia.our goal was europe.no one cares about your lands

You do not know anything about Persian history.

Turkey is a weak pawn of the United States who can't even beat a little country like Greece.

If no one cares about their lands than why is everyone begging for their energy reserves?:huh2:

[kaiser_tr]

You do not know anything about Persian history.

Turkey is a weak pawn of the United States who can't even beat a little country like Greece.

If no one cares about their lands than why is everyone begging for their energy reserves?:huh2:


we ruled greece for hundreds of years...in 20th century we fought two times...first in our independency war;and we whipped their asses..

second conflict was in cyprus..again we defeated them took the north part of the island.

greece never defeated us



you said that i do not know anything about iran history...tell me then when did you last faced against a western country

[kaiser_tr]

If no one cares about their lands than why is everyone begging for their energy reserves?:huh2:



dude we're talking about history...no one cared about natural gas or oil in those days

[YakiKadafi]

In 2006 there will be no new empire and iran stays persian and aryanic.So drool turks drool for a new empire!.IRAN BALA HAMEH!!

[Pylyp Orlyk]

Who cares about history. Why haven't you defeated Greece today. Why do you let those pagans occupy Muslim lands?

[kaiser_tr]

how old are you guys??

age of conquests are over...declaring war and invading is not easy if u'r not USA


we fought 2 times against greeks and we won...if in the future a conflict will occur,then we will slap them again...promise ;)

[kaiser_tr]

In 2006 there will be no new empire and iran stays persian and aryanic.



iran will stay %50 persian and aryanic...you're more like a mosaic

[Shapur 2]

sHAPUR i didint say anything wrong.if u have problem with my saying go and read history...or temm me what i said wrong....but about my otman brothers yes true they dont have any info about history.....so dont wast ur time here ;)

well, you made several comments that didnt really make sense.

its like "i drive a ferrari and you drive a fiat...so what's the difference??"


central asia,afghanistan etc.. means nothing comparing to all europeans.

everytime ottomans marched against europe,a mixture of european armies confronted us...sorry dude but ottoman's and iran's military victorys are not equal

that makes no sense at all. an army is an army, a military victory is a military victory.

Iran defeated the ottomans plenty of times. infact, iran had the last laugh, iran actually gained territory from the ottomans in iraq that is still today part of iran.


[QUOTE=kaiser_tr;53806]

no it was not..roman empire was on todays Iran border...so tell my how you took care of roman empire:)

it was again turks who defeated them at the battle of manzikert then settle down in anatolia

the byzantines only had control of anatolia at that point. their military was getting weaker and weaker. it was a weak mercenary army by the time the turks got there.

at the battle of manzikert, the byzantine empire was so split up that half the army just left and betrayed the emperor.

I know more about the history of these regions than you do. I have actually read books on the topic. I know what im talking about.


you iranians havent fought against a western country for such a long time...

as i remember the last time you did it was against Alexander and he whipped your asses...

germans,austrians,russians sometimes frenchs,italians and spanishs were our enemys...

wrong again, you dont know anything about the history of the region.

Iran fought the portugese, english, and russians, and one in all cases except the last two wars it fought against russia in the 1800's. The last war iran fought with a western power was in the mid 1800's, a little more than 150 years ago.

how do you feel now smart guy?




ahh one more thing,ottomans never invaded iran..true...because they never wanted to do so.we attacked you only when you passed our borders and attack anatolia.our goal was europe.no one cares about your lands

the ottomans invaded iran several times, and they eventually lost every time.

you dont even know the history of your own nation. how sad.

we ruled greece for hundreds of years...in 20th century we fought two times...first in our independency war;and we whipped their asses..

second conflict was in cyprus..again we defeated them took the north part of the island.

greece never fought in cyprus against the turkish army in the 1970's. what are you talking about?



greece never defeated us

then how did they gain their independence?



you said that i do not know anything about iran history...tell me then when did you last faced against a western country

how do you feel now smart guy? mr. know it all... even I, who knows so much and has read so much about the history of the turkic and iranic peoples and the history of central asia, the middle east, and europe, dont even claim that im know everything.

you claim to know everything when you know nothing about the real history.



dude we're talking about history...no one cared about natural gas or oil in those days

if no one cared about iran, then why are their so many european maps about Iran? then why did the europeans try to invaded Iran? why did the europeans negotiate with iran, ally with iran, etc...???

[Shapur 2]

iran will stay %50 persian and aryanic...you're more like a mosaic

Iran is about 95% iranic.... 51% persian, 24% Azari, 8% Gilaki/mazandarani, 7% Kurd, 2% Lur, 2% Balouchi, 1% other..

[kaiser_tr]

that makes no sense at all. an army is an army, a military victory is a military victory



no it is not...fighting against nomadic tribes is not same as fighting against regular european armies.








Iran defeated the ottomans plenty of times. infact, iran had the last laugh, iran actually gained territory from the ottomans in iraq that is still today part of iran.




ahaha almost all of those wars were started by Iran.Ottomans never cared about east(only Sultan Selim looked to the east)

usually ottomans forces were at the balkans...it took months to gather the army and march to the east at that time.so iran used this as an advantage and permanently hit ottomans from the back.

as i mentioned,only sultan who interested in east was Sultan Selim..He fought against Iran and destroyed your army at battle of chaldiran.here is the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chaldiran

[payam]

KEISER HOW OLD ARE U BABY????gooo papa need u
you iranians havent fought against a western country for such a long time...

as i remember the last time you did it was against Alexander and he whipped your asses...

germans,austrians,russians sometimes frenchs,italians and spanishs were our enemys...



ahh one more thing,ottomans never invaded iran..true...because they never wanted to do so.we attacked you only when you passed our borders and attack anatolia.our goal was europe.no one cares about your lands

just go and read some books ok???????also the problem is not having war with westernss...why we must have wars without reason?also we have so many wars with some like: united kingdoms/russia and.... u said me with ur post that u are a kid....cute baby...just gooo gooo....i just can laugh a=on all ur posts....
also our last war with west is for 19 years ago(the war with united states of america)
as u know united states of american was 1 of the sadam supporters in 8 years war with iran....now what i want to say: in the last years of war when iranian troops were in iraq land and made some iraqi ctires(like basra)free from sadam hands...and when sadam and its regim were making themself ready to see hell and down...and iranian were so near to overthrow sadam regims.. the united states changed her private supports to a clear one....exacly when american saw sadam's regim is on danger and the victory of iran was a terrible for them...so in that time we saw a real face to face war with united states.(and american start with all capacitiy(fighters/navy/...) attacking iran.to make iran worry in continuing sadam overthrow.
also the 8 years holy defence was a war with 32 countries(i must say whole world) i will give u later the numbers and things that coutnries helped sadam.
also iranian nation are fighting with west for years an years...thats why u see all western medias againts us..fighting has so many kinds..ur otman emperor now is on hell....just see what u people are now......just see what ur governments are........just see ur culture attaturk gave u people.....
also u are all blind....cant u read my posts in this tread????i already told u people what is the diffrences of being persian and being iranian.......just go and read them again....i have no more time for wasting for kids....
we are iranian turk with our history and u otmans go sleep with ur own history.... we iranian turk are the creator of so majority turkish nation history cuase we all were as 1 nation..in the name of IRAN
so dont try to solve what we did in ur history..otmans had thier own history
for example can u say egyption history is same with saudis???noooo
our history is one of richest oness and u otmans must make ur beliefs and ideas true and in islam way...
tukey and ur people have thier own history and iranian turk are proud to be the bas e of so many nations in these days and dont try to erase history.....
u poeple have problem from base ;)
emam ali said:
the people will go to thier leaders way....
and thats what we are seeing....ur leader with thier wrong nationalism beliefs washed ur brains.even they diodnt give u a right info about history(im not sure)
so my brother dont try to make me nervous with ur strange comments!!!!

[payam]

u people just tthink having war with weast and killing people is true and for islamm!!!!!otman emperor did it for power not islamm!!!!!just ask ur governments tell u people truth......(im sur they cant)

[payam]

muslims have war with fascism and we dont like to be another kind of it.and our war is defensive...not killing others in the name of god and islam(what otmans did)

[Pylyp Orlyk]

no it is not...fighting against nomadic tribes is not same as fighting against regular european armies.







ahaha almost all of those wars were started by Iran.Ottomans never cared about east(only Sultan Selim looked to the east)

usually ottomans forces were at the balkans...it took months to gather the army and march to the east at that time.so iran used this as an advantage and permanently hit ottomans from the back.

as i mentioned,only sultan who interested in east was Sultan Selim..He fought against Iran and destroyed your army at battle of chaldiran.here is the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chaldiran

It says that the Safavids defeated the Turks. You can't trust wiki dude.

[payam]

Safavids is already a turkish kingdom ;) and thats why im saying we are iranian and diffrent with them....otmans has thier own and must not play with our strong history...we are iranian turks an the brother of all persianss/kurds/.....

[payam]

safavids had so many wars with otmans emperor....and we were 1 of the super powers in that time.....

[payam]

but about defeat or somthing else i dont know....but at last otman emperpr couldnt occupy our lands ;) never in the history

[kaiser_tr]

the byzantines only had control of anatolia at that point. their military was getting weaker and weaker. it was a weak mercenary army by the time the turks got there.




i didnt say that byzantine was strong...someone mentioned that "iranians and arabs took care of them"

for a moment think that it was true...arabs and iranians weakened the romans..so what the ****!!!! we seljuqs invaded iran too:D you are romans and we ate you!!!!!!!!!!!






Iran fought the portugese, english, and russians, and one in all cases except the last two wars it fought against russia in the 1800's. The last war iran fought with a western power was in the mid 1800's, a little more than 150 years ago.

how do you feel now smart guy?






link please??? i dont think a big battle between any western nation and iran had occured.

so is it more or less than five times??

we fought hundreds of battles against western countrys.we invaded a serius part of europe you dreamers!!!








the ottomans invaded iran several times, and they eventually lost every time.

you dont even know the history of your own nation. how sad.




i was talking about a full invasion..not tebriz and its around.ottomans never wanted to invade iran.we fight mostly after you attack us from back









greece never fought in cyprus against the turkish army in the 1970's. what are you talking about?



then how did they gain their independence?








when greek cypriots attacked turks on the island Turkey defended our brothers on the island.Greece did not have the courage to stand against us and did not fought an active war.they supported greek cypriots with arms,money and man!!!!


greek got its independece with a rebellion...which all supported by England-Russia...no chance for greeks to defeat us in a fair war.




if no one cared about iran, then why are their so many european maps about Iran? then why did the europeans try to invaded Iran? why did the europeans negotiate with iran, ally with iran, etc...???


classical iranian paranoid...thinks all world is against iran.

wake up...world is not turning around you...and never will


you're one of the most unsuccesfull nations ever...you got everything to success but somehow you cant do anything...i pitty all of you.

[payam]

hey keisar my brother so ur otman emperor was the empeeror of angles;) ohh okk and we already saw what these angles did to humanity...u can ask it from the nations u attacked...... ;)

[kaiser_tr]

KEISER HOW OLD ARE U BABY????gooo papa need u


just go and read some books ok???????also the problem is not having war with westernss...why we must have wars without reason?also we have so many wars with some like: united kingdoms/russia and.... u said me with ur post that u are a kid....cute baby...just gooo gooo....i just can laugh a=on all ur posts....
also our last war with west is for 19 years ago(the war with united states of america)
as u know united states of american was 1 of the sadam supporters in 8 years war with iran....now what i want to say: in the last years of war when iranian troops were in iraq land and made some iraqi ctires(like basra)free from sadam hands...and when sadam and its regim were making themself ready to see hell and down...and iranian were so near to overthrow sadam regims.. the united states changed her private supports to a clear one....exacly when american saw sadam's regim is on danger and the victory of iran was a terrible for them...so in that time we saw a real face to face war with united states.(and american start with all capacitiy(fighters/navy/...) attacking iran.to make iran worry in continuing sadam overthrow.
also the 8 years holy defence was a war with 32 countries(i must say whole world) i will give u later the numbers and things that coutnries helped sadam.
also iranian nation are fighting with west for years an years...thats why u see all western medias againts us..fighting has so many kinds..ur otman emperor now is on hell....just see what u people are now......just see what ur governments are........just see ur culture attaturk gave u people.....
also u are all blind....cant u read my posts in this tread????i already told u people what is the diffrences of being persian and being iranian.......just go and read them again....i have no more time for wasting for kids....
we are iranian turk with our history and u otmans go sleep with ur own history.... we iranian turk are the creator of so majority turkish nation history cuase we all were as 1 nation..in the name of IRAN
so dont try to solve what we did in ur history..otmans had thier own history
for example can u say egyption history is same with saudis???noooo
our history is one of richest oness and u otmans must make ur beliefs and ideas true and in islam way...
tukey and ur people have thier own history and iranian turk are proud to be the bas e of so many nations in these days and dont try to erase history.....
u poeple have problem from base ;)
emam ali said:
the people will go to thier leaders way....
and thats what we are seeing....ur leader with thier wrong nationalism beliefs washed ur brains.even they diodnt give u a right info about history(im not sure)
so my brother dont try to make me nervous with ur strange comments!!!!




full of ********...war against iraq = war against USA thats really funny.even for an iranian



and the part "now we are fighting against whole world" ahahah

your media really pumping you with patriotic lies...

[kaiser_tr]

u people just tthink having war with weast and killing people is true and for islamm!!!!!



i've never said that...dont make things up.

[kaiser_tr]

It says that the Safavids defeated the Turks. You can't trust wiki dude.

no dude read it again...Selim defeated Iranians and even took your Sultan's wife:)

[payam]

full of ********...war against iraq = war against USA thats really funny.even for an iranian
hahaha u are funny . its funny for iranian when we have books and videos and our people saw it by thier eyes???????come here and ask people and shut the window.....


and the part "now we are fighting against whole world" ahaha

are u sure i said it???????Are u sick????/i said we HAD war with whole world(in iraq iran war)cuase as i said majority were sadam helper and i will give u numbers soon ;) make urself ready....

[payam]

i've never said that...dont make things up.
ur comments is telling me so clearly....

[kaiser_tr]

safavids had so many wars with otmans emperor....and we were 1 of the super powers in that time.....



to be a superpower you must effect to a large part of the world...safavids could not do it...

[payam]

to be a superpower you must effect to a large part of the world...safavids could not do it...

first of all its not the all meaning of a super poweer and also u dont like to tell me safavids were in a city ??????HUH? HAHAHAAHAHH :D
see ur problem is in history ;) be sure if we were not we couldnt defence our land againts ur emperor... ;)

[kaiser_tr]

hahaha u are funny . its funny for iranian when we have books and videos and our people saw it by thier eyes???????come here and ask people and shut the window.....




are u sure i said it???????Are u sick????/i said we HAD war with whole world(in iraq iran war)cuase as i said majority were sadam helper and i will give u numbers soon ;) make urself ready....

so friend,any USA,German,British,French soldier died on this battle??

plz answer the question

[payam]

Tehran Times Perspective Column, Sept. 24, By Alireza Ramezani
Shouting about human rights, taking human lives
TEHRAN, Sept. 23 (MNA) -- Upon invading Iran on September 22, 1980, former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein bragged that he would be in Tehran in three days. The claim was ridiculous since the war lasted for eight bloody years, resulting in $350 billion in damages for Iran alone and costing nearly 1.5 million lives in total for both sides.

Iraq’s war against Iran was supported by Arab states, European countries, and, of course, by the peace-seeking and democratic state of the United States, which assisted Iraq financially and militarily.



Among the Iranian victims, over 100,000 were exposed to chemical weapons, whose production was facilitated by the U.S.



A 1200-page Weapons Declaration issued by Iraq in December 2002 revealed that state-owned and private U.S. companies were among the top exporters of chemical and biological materials to the Iraqi regime.



In 1994, a top U.S. official, Donald Riegle, said in a report that "UN inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development … and the executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record."



During the war, however, very little pressure was brought upon Iraq by the international community to halt chemical attacks or to condemn the hostilities. No additional pressure was imposed upon the Baath regime and its supporters afterward.



Now, 18 years after the conflict, the former Iraqi dictator is being tried on charges of committing acts of genocide against the Kurds, who were poisoned by Saddam's chemical weapons from 1987 to 1988. And, if found guilty, he faces execution by hanging, a punishment that is much lighter than what he deserves. But a key issue remains unaddressed: When will it be the supporters' turn to stand trial!? Maybe never.



In fact, no state or international organization cares about the thousands of Iranian war veterans who are still alive but severely disabled by Saddam's chemical weapons. For them, the war has not ended yet.



Many of these veterans are dealing with death in hospitals, and many others share their pain with their patient wives and children at home. They receive little support from their own government and people. Many of them live anonymously throughout society, having no expectations or demands in regard to their ongoing resistance. They have continued to suffer the aftereffects of the chemical weapons, including fatal lung diseases, years after the unwanted war.



It is understandable if Saddam's supporters ignore the aftereffects of their deadly assistance. However, we expect our own people to thank these veterans in any way possible.



It is a duty of well-known Iranian filmmakers, who have made many movies about the war and the post-war period, to screen the real pain of these long-suffering men in documentaries to illustrate the brutality of the states which shout "democracy" and "human rights" to the world but take human lives out of the world.

MAKE UR SELF READY FOR THE NUMBERS OF HELPS ;) COMMING SOON HAHA

[kaiser_tr]

first of all its not the all meaning of a super poweer and also u dont like to tell me safavids were in a city ??????HUH? HAHAHAAHAHH :D
see ur problem is in history ;) be sure if we were not we couldnt defence our land againts ur emperor... ;)



look at the maps friend...ottomans were in europe,middleeast and caucas...

safavids were on empty lands..there were no strong state near safavis but Ottomans...and by your luck we focused on west.not east

[kaiser_tr]

dude you really dont understand...its a free world...


if i shoot you with a German made shootgun it wouldnt mean that you are in war against Germany

[payam]

look at the maps friend...ottomans were in europe,middleeast and caucas...

safavids were on empty lands..there were no strong state near safavis but Ottomans...and by your luck we focused on west.not east

we have our own lands and ofcource the land is not the all things in power also our prblem here is not this to talk about...u gave ur answer and its enough.....

dude you really dont understand...its a free world...
yesssssssssss yessssssss tabarak allaaaaaaaaaah yesssssssssssss
so forget ur emperor and ur dark beliefs about other nations.....

[payam]

Fatabarak Allahoooo Ahsanol Khaleghiiiiiiiin Offffffffff :D

[kaiser_tr]

ahha i was reading about safavids history and i saw that you fought against portugal ahaha look at this i am copying the text


"During his reign, the official language at the royal court was Azeri.

In the meantime, the navy-less Safavids lost the island of Hormuz to the Portuguese in 1507.
In 1514, the Ottoman Sultan Selim I invaded western Armenia causing the ill-prepared Safavid army to retreat. The Safavids were poorly armed while the Ottomans had muskets and artillery. "




yeah i'm sorry you were really a superpower...ahahah

[kaiser_tr]

again from wikipedia;



"The Ottoman Turks and Safavids fought over the fertile plains of Iraq for more than 150 years. The capture of Baghdad by Ismail I in 1509 was only followed by its loss to the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman I in 1534. After subsequent campaigns, the Safavids recaptured Baghdad in 1623 yet lost it again to Murad IV in 1638. Henceforth a treaty, signed in Qasr-e Shirin, was established delineating a border between Iran and Turkey in 1639, a border which still stands in northwest Iran/southeast Turkey."



i guess we're even on these front

[payam]

ahha i was reading about safavids history and i saw that you fought against portugal ahaha look at this i am copying the text


"During his reign, the official language at the royal court was Azeri.

In the meantime, the navy-less Safavids lost the island of Hormuz to the Portuguese in 1507.
In 1514, the Ottoman Sultan Selim I invaded western Armenia causing the ill-prepared Safavid army to retreat. The Safavids were poorly armed while the Ottomans had muskets and artillery. "




yeah i'm sorry you were really a superpower...ahahah


again from wikipedia;



"The Ottoman Turks and Safavids fought over the fertile plains of Iraq for more than 150 years. The capture of Baghdad by Ismail I in 1509 was only followed by its loss to the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman I in 1534. After subsequent campaigns, the Safavids recaptured Baghdad in 1623 yet lost it again to Murad IV in 1638. Henceforth a treaty, signed in Qasr-e Shirin, was established delineating a border between Iran and Turkey in 1639, a border which still stands in northwest Iran/southeast Turkey."



i guess we're even on these front


yes about shah ismail in that time and war ottmans were so strong
im not talking about those ;) also if we were weak so why ur emperor couldnt occupy our lands with all those wars???????hahah also after shah ismail safavids kingdom thought about having more stronger army and in shah abbas time they did it ;) we have a phrase in iran: safavids kingdom created by shah ismail and gave power with shah abbas ;)
but as said we are talking about another thing ;) cuase u are clearly talking about having war with safavids(turkish kingdoms-as iranian)and so u got what i wanted to say..;) so otmans are diffrents from other turk nations in history and ... ;) and u were not the leader of all ;) haha u were just the leader of some arab nations.... hahaha

[kaiser_tr]

yes about shah ismail in that time and war ottmans were so strong
im not talking about those ;) also if we were weak so why ur emperor couldnt occupy our lands with all those wars???????



again from wikipedia ;

"The Ottomans pushed further and on August 23, 1514 managed to engage the Safavids in the Battle of Chaldiran west of Tabriz. The Safavids were defeated and, as the Ottoman force moved on Tabriz, engaged in scorched-earth combat. Tabriz was taken but the Ottoman army refused to follow the Safavids into the Persian highlands and by winter retreated from Tabriz. This warfare pattern repeated itself under Shah Tahmasp I and Sultan Suleiman I."



because ottomans had nothing to do with east(i'm telling this for 909089. time) our goal was europe not east

[payam]

again from wikipedia ;

"The Ottomans pushed further and on August 23, 1514 managed to engage the Safavids in the Battle of Chaldiran west of Tabriz. The Safavids were defeated and, as the Ottoman force moved on Tabriz, engaged in scorched-earth combat. Tabriz was taken but the Ottoman army refused to follow the Safavids into the Persian highlands and by winter retreated from Tabriz. This warfare pattern repeated itself under Shah Tahmasp I and Sultan Suleiman I."



because ottomans had nothing to do with east(i'm telling this for 909089. time) our goal was europe not east


its not againts what i said...its the story of one of wars....also if we were an easy target and if ur emperor were in sure that we are so weak ' be sure they were wondoring to add iran to the emperor...and the reason of wars was this... otmans had manythings to do with east...but iran was the reason they changed thier planes to west.....at last in that time we were shia and otmans sunna and for them we were kaffur(blasphemer) (same with western)...
and we iranian were enough strong to defence our nation and land ;) and thats why otmans in thier history dont have even 1 time having iranian lands ;0 hahah
also u are changing topic for the reasons i dont know.....we were talking about onther thing and when u gave answer u are changing the topic......dont do that my baby ;) hahahaahaha :D

[kaiser_tr]

be sure they were wondoring to add iran to the emperor...and the reason of wars was this...



no no no you are wrong again and again:) here is the reason of the war



"After the conquest of Egypt and the Holy Cities, Selim induced the vanquished Al-Mutawakkil III (1509–17), the last ruler of the Abbasid dynasty, to formally surrender the title of Caliph and its emblems, the sword and the mantle of Muhammad. Having thus cemented his claim to the position of the "Guardian of the Faithful", Selim waged war against Persia, whose ruler Shah Ismail I claimed to be Caliph as well."







and what are we talking about then??? i just answer your blind,patriotic ideas

[payam]

again from wikipedia ;

"The Ottomans pushed further and on August 23, 1514 managed to engage the Safavids in the Battle of Chaldiran west of Tabriz. The Safavids were defeated and, as the Ottoman force moved on Tabriz, engaged in scorched-earth combat. Tabriz was taken but the Ottoman army refused to follow the Safavids into the Persian highlands and by winter retreated from Tabriz. This warfare pattern repeated itself under Shah Tahmasp I and Sultan Suleiman I."



because ottomans had nothing to do with east(i'm telling this for 909089. time) our goal was europe not east

are u sick????????? u cant understand me???
frist of all copy and past is so easy my honey.second ur reasons is good for hell..its so clear some who knows otmani emperor as an islamic one and angle kind what can give us as answer.......
also first make ur dark and patriotic ideas true and then talk about others
u are changing the topic....cuase u got the answer of ur question...;)
what is the question????just come back and see the pages.....hahaah

[kaiser_tr]

yeah britannica,larusse and wikipedia is wrong you're right...


you asked me "why ottomans didnt go further" and i gave you the answer...


you cant handle it i guess...




i cant go back and read all iranian **** **** again.if you want to learn something,then ask now or stop saying same **** over and over

[payam]

yeah britannica,larusse and wikipedia is wrong you're right...


you asked me "why ottomans didnt go further" and i gave you the answer...

i gave u the right reasons so dont tak more and read them againt to see i didnt say anything strange....


you cant handle it i guess...
handle what???i did it exaclly..u otmans were in this belief that we dont have anything named iranian turk and i show u that u are in wrong;)
all i said was this and it seems u accept it already cuase u aer not talkng about that.....hahaha kid ;)

[kaiser_tr]

repeating;


i cant go back and read all iranian **** **** again.if you want to learn something,then ask now or stop saying same **** over and over

[payam]

i cant go back and read all iranian **** **** again.if you want to learn something,then ask now or stop saying same **** over and over

so seeeeee seeeeeeeee. when u cant hear how u want to talk?????
go and read all 22 pages and dont talk with me more.....then u will give ur answer....am i stupid to repeat all i said in days again???????????god will send me to hell cuase of wasting time here :D ;)
so go and read all 22 pages and then u will give ur answer....

[kaiser_tr]

so you got nothing to say...you are just trying to seem smart.a typical teenager behaviour

i am reliefed...

[payam]

so you got nothing to say...you are just trying to seem smart.a typical teenager behaviour

i am reliefed...

first of all dont tell me what i told u first......as i said with all ur saying u are trying to change the topic....as i said my problem(and this tread problem)was another things that im realy in believe that i did it right...cuase my brother's saying is so much diffrent from first....so if u want to get it read the whole 22 page ;) and thats all what i want to say....and more is not important for me(that safavids was super power or not or for which reason otmans did it againts us) cuase u already accept it that u otmans are not all....and we are diffrent from u..... and thats againt all u wanted to say befor...we are iranian turks and 1 group of all and all turkish kingdoms in iran were iranian.

[kaiser_tr]

only for iranian ppl...only in iranian sources

[Shapur 2]

no it is not...fighting against nomadic tribes is not same as fighting against regular european armies.

I didnt know that the russians were nomadic. I also didnt know that the kingdoms in central asia were nomadic...

wow, thanks for informing me. All this time i thought that there were fortified cities and armies all over asia, but now you have enlightened, only europe had armies...

LOL you are laughable. Please, when you dont know what your talking about, why speak?







ahaha almost all of those wars were started by Iran.Ottomans never cared about east(only Sultan Selim looked to the east)

usually ottomans forces were at the balkans...it took months to gather the army and march to the east at that time.so iran used this as an advantage and permanently hit ottomans from the back.

as i mentioned,only sultan who interested in east was Sultan Selim..He fought against Iran and destroyed your army at battle of chaldiran.here is the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chaldiran

The Ottomans and Iran fought constantly and were equal in strength. it wasnt until the ottomans started losing in europe and north africa that they stopped paying so much attention to iran.

during their decline, they started focusing more on the territory they were losing rather than engaging in more wars.

i didnt say that byzantine was strong...someone mentioned that "iranians and arabs took care of them"

for a moment think that it was true...arabs and iranians weakened the romans..so what the ****!!!! we seljuqs invaded iran too:D you are romans and we ate you!!!!!!!!!!!

taking credit for defeating the byzantines is not a big deal. thats what i was trying to tell you. the byzantines were nothing more than a small weak collapsing kingdom by the time the turks got there.

it was iranians and arabs who did all the dirty work...








link please??? i dont think a big battle between any western nation and iran had occured.

so is it more or less than five times??

many battles against russia and england. just because you dont know it doesnt mean its not true...LMAO



we fought hundreds of battles against western countrys.we invaded a serius part of europe you dreamers!!!

havent you ever heard of geography? where was the ottoman empire and where was Iran?

Iran wasnt bordering europe was it smart guy... therefore, it couldnt fight them as many times the ottomans fought them.

however, the russians that did border us, foughth with us a lot.




i was talking about a full invasion..not tebriz and its around.ottomans never wanted to invade iran.we fight mostly after you attack us from back

the safavids continually fought for control of the caucasus and iraq...because both wanted it.



when greek cypriots attacked turks on the island Turkey defended our brothers on the island.Greece did not have the courage to stand against us and did not fought an active war.they supported greek cypriots with arms,money and man!!!!

no, because Greece did not want to start a full scale war that was not condoned by the UN. Turkey got sanctioned for what it did until the iranian revolution, when the US needed a new ally.


greek got its independece with a rebellion...which all supported by England-Russia...no chance for greeks to defeat us in a fair war.

the ottomans lost the entire balkans in just 2 weeks!

The ottoman empire was in decline since the mid 1600's.


classical iranian paranoid...thinks all world is against iran.

wake up...world is not turning around you...and never will


you're one of the most unsuccesfull nations ever...you got everything to success but somehow you cant do anything...i pitty all of you.

LOL, hm.... lets see, iran has been around for 7000 years.

Iranians have affected math, science, medicine, literature, culture, military, etc.. of the entire world

I think we're doing someting right, dont you think?

look at the maps friend...ottomans were in europe,middleeast and caucas...

safavids were on empty lands..there were no strong state near safavis but Ottomans...and by your luck we focused on west.not east

and what strong nations were bordering the ottomans? every single inch of territory the ottomans took in europe was against weak nations. once they got to germany (modern day austria) they were defeated.


and oh wow, north africa....there wasnt a strong nation in north africa since the fall carthage thousands of years ago.


ahha i was reading about safavids history and i saw that you fought against portugal ahaha look at this i am copying the text


"During his reign, the official language at the royal court was Azeri.

In the meantime, the navy-less Safavids lost the island of Hormuz to the Portuguese in 1507.
In 1514, the Ottoman Sultan Selim I invaded western Armenia causing the ill-prepared Safavid army to retreat. The Safavids were poorly armed while the Ottomans had muskets and artillery. "




yeah i'm sorry you were really a superpower...ahahah

after that, the iranian army was upgraded in training and technology, and guess what, iran invaded the ottoman empire several years later and defeated the ottomans WHILE OUTNUMBERED.

and no, iran was not a superpower, and neither were the ottomans. a super power had not existed in the world since the fall of achaemenid Iran.

again from wikipedia;



"The Ottoman Turks and Safavids fought over the fertile plains of Iraq for more than 150 years. The capture of Baghdad by Ismail I in 1509 was only followed by its loss to the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman I in 1534. After subsequent campaigns, the Safavids recaptured Baghdad in 1623 yet lost it again to Murad IV in 1638. Henceforth a treaty, signed in Qasr-e Shirin, was established delineating a border between Iran and Turkey in 1639, a border which still stands in northwest Iran/southeast Turkey."



i guess we're even on these front

enlightening isnt it. ottoman empire and iran were equal in strength.

again from wikipedia ;

"The Ottomans pushed further and on August 23, 1514 managed to engage the Safavids in the Battle of Chaldiran west of Tabriz. The Safavids were defeated and, as the Ottoman force moved on Tabriz, engaged in scorched-earth combat. Tabriz was taken but the Ottoman army refused to follow the Safavids into the Persian highlands and by winter retreated from Tabriz. This warfare pattern repeated itself under Shah Tahmasp I and Sultan Suleiman I."



because ottomans had nothing to do with east(i'm telling this for 909089. time) our goal was europe not east

you dont understand military strategy do you? it says that the safavids were using a scorched earth combat tactic while winter was around the corner.

this means that they wanted to trap the ottomans during the winter and massacre them (Like napoleon in russia, and the germans in russia). the ottoman generals saw this and they decided to save their army and retreat.

it was a smart move to make. any smart general would have also retreated.

[snc128]

i have simple question.:)
why Ottomans and Saffavi(Iran) never tried to unite their powers against non Islamic crusaders or Europeans.i ask just because of my curiosity.:)thanks ppl.

[payam]

why Ottomans and Saffavi(Iran) never tried to unite their powers against non Islamic crusaders or Europeans.i ask just because of my curiosity
WELL my idea is this: befor safavi majority iranian were sunna....but after them they made all iranian shia... and i think the main problem of otmans and safavis was this.. cuase even now u can see so many sunna people that know shia people as kafer(blasphemer)...so for otman emperor the iranian and western were same.....

[kaiser_tr]

I didnt know that the russians were nomadic. I also didnt know that the kingdoms in central asia were nomadic...

wow, thanks for informing me. All this time i thought that there were fortified cities and armies all over asia, but now you have enlightened, only europe had armies...

LOL you are laughable. Please, when you dont know what your talking about, why speak?





yeah afghans and uzbeks are same as germans,austrians and french...are you saying that? just answer this

and give me links for the battles between iran and western powers..want to see how serius battles were they

you know border conflicts with russia dont count:)








The Ottomans and Iran fought constantly and were equal in strength. it wasnt until the ottomans started losing in europe and north africa that they stopped paying so much attention to iran.

during their decline, they started focusing more on the territory they were losing rather than engaging in more wars.






no iran and ottoman were not equal...ottomans never focused on iran(only sultan selim marched against iran)

we fought against you only when you hit us from back..show me another example and i will accept it.i'm writing it over and over,ottomans never wanted to gain more teritory on iran.even sultan selim defeated shah ismail's whole army and returned back to Istanbul...only think Selim wanted was to be the leader of the Muslim world(caliph) thats why he attacked to iran







taking credit for defeating the byzantines is not a big deal. thats what i was trying to tell you. the byzantines were nothing more than a small weak collapsing kingdom by the time the turks got there.

it was iranians and arabs who did all the dirty work...





ok you weakened byzantines but seljuqs invaded you...this is worst i think=)








many battles against russia and england. just because you dont know it doesnt mean its not true...LMAO






links please...i want to see your "GREAT" battles against England and Portugal








LOL, hm.... lets see, iran has been around for 7000 years.

Iranians have affected math, science, medicine, literature, culture, military, etc.. of the entire world

I think we're doing someting right, dont you think?







iran has %10 of world's oil reserves and has the second largest natural gas reserves...but you can barely feed your selves....you're a dream nation which prefer to live in 5000 years ago:)

yes you are really really unsecceusful









no, because Greece did not want to start a full scale war that was not condoned by the UN. Turkey got sanctioned for what it did until the iranian revolution, when the US needed a new ally.





so what? did they beat us??? so why are you telling these...






you dont understand military strategy do you? it says that the safavids were using a scorched earth combat tactic while winter was around the corner.

this means that they wanted to trap the ottomans during the winter and massacre them (Like napoleon in russia, and the germans in russia). the ottoman generals saw this and they decided to save their army and retreat.

it was a smart move to make. any smart general would have also retreated.



ahahah you know history very well...


The Ottomans had a larger, better equipped army numbering 200,000, while the Iranians numbered some 80,000. The Iranian Shah Ismail I was wounded and almost captured in the conflict.

Iran's Casualties = Unknown but heavy


yeah you almost got your shah killed to trick ottomans...ahahah


what a military strategy...keep on dreamin iranians

[Shapur 2]

i have simple question.:)
why Ottomans and Saffavi(Iran) never tried to unite their powers against non Islamic crusaders or Europeans.i ask just because of my curiosity.:)thanks ppl.

for one simple reason. Iran was shia and the ottomans were sunni. these two sects of islam are mortal enemies of eachother.

yeah afghans and uzbeks are same as germans,austrians and french...are you saying that? just answer this

and give me links for the battles between iran and western powers..want to see how serius battles were they

you know border conflicts with russia dont count:)

let me see, back then, everyone fought with swords, cavalry, etc... it wasnt until the advent of more sophisticated guns and technology that the east became inferior in combat.

remeber that the ottomans became weak also after europe got better technology.






no iran and ottoman were not equal...ottomans never focused on iran(only sultan selim marched against iran)

we fought against you only when you hit us from back..show me another example and i will accept it.i'm writing it over and over,ottomans never wanted to gain more teritory on iran.even sultan selim defeated shah ismail's whole army and returned back to Istanbul...only think Selim wanted was to be the leader of the Muslim world(caliph) thats why he attacked to iran

no empire would ever not want to expand their territory. so you saying that they never wanted to take iran is just wrong and ludicrous.

the ottoman empire STOPPED expanding after the reign of suleiman the great. that means that no matter which way you look at it, the ottomans simple could not take anymore land than they already had.

they couldnt do it in europe, in africa, or in asia. simple as that. after Suleimans the Great's reign, the empire began a very very slow decline until the mid 1600's, when it started decline rapidly.

the ottomans simply did not have the power to expand their empire any longer, no matter where they were focusing on.




ok you weakened byzantines but seljuqs invaded you...this is worst i think=)

your history is so incredibly bad.

the abbasid caliphate had already borken up by that time. there was nothing left in the area except a dozens of small kingdoms.

when the seljuks came, they were fighting weak small kingdoms (much like the byzantines) than a strong empire.

the turks were help back from enterng the near east for thousands of years by the iranian empire and then the arab empire.

it was not until the fall of the abbasid perso-arabic caliphate that the seljuks were able to invade and be so successful.

why do you claim to know so much about the history of the region?



links please...i want to see your "GREAT" battles against England and Portugal

i wouldnt call them great battles, i never said anything about great battles. most battles are not great... i dont know what your talking about.

these battles against the english and portugese did not happen till the lat 17th and 18th centuries.

not much are written about them, and surprisingly, not much is written about the Russo-Persian wars of the 18th and 19 centuries is either. you can look them up, but nothing is written in detail about them unfortunatly.



iran has %10 of world's oil reserves and has the second largest natural gas reserves...but you can barely feed your selves....you're a dream nation which prefer to live in 5000 years ago:)

yes you are really really unsecceusful

Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world, but look at them now.

Russia has THE largest gas reserves in the world, and look at how russia's doing.

Sierre leon could be a developed country with the amount of diamonds it can produce, but look at them now.

its all about leadership.

look how good turkey was doing during the 1950's, 60's, 70's... the economy was even really bad till 1996, when it started getting better.

the point is, leadership is what matters. if you have a good leadership, you will do good, if you have bad leadership you will do bad.




ahahah you know history very well...


The Ottomans had a larger, better equipped army numbering 200,000, while the Iranians numbered some 80,000. The Iranian Shah Ismail I was wounded and almost captured in the conflict.

Iran's Casualties = Unknown but heavy


yeah you almost got your shah killed to trick ottomans...ahahah


what a military strategy...keep on dreamin iranians

wow. you really dont understand anything about military strategy do you? you also couldnt get my napoleon and nazi germany examples into your brain either evidently.

do you know what scorched earth means? even the weakest armies in the world could win using a scorched earth policy.

please smart guy, tell me what a scorched earth policy is without looking it up.

[kaiser_tr]

i got no time but i have to say that,at the battle of chaldiran you didnt use napeleon tactics...

you lost almost your entire army(80.000 man) your shah ismail was almost killed...and our sultan seized your treasury and shah's wifes!!!!


does this sounds like a tactic??? loose everything and wait for ottomans to come inside??


now its time for iftar...gotta go

[Shapur 2]

i got no time but i have to say that,at the battle of chaldiran you didnt use napeleon tactics...

you lost almost your entire army(80.000 man) your shah ismail was almost killed...and our sultan seized your treasury and shah's wifes!!!!


does this sounds like a tactic??? loose everything and wait for ottomans to come inside??


now its time for iftar...gotta go

OK, so you dont know what a scorched earth policy is. Let me explain.


When an army is going up against a stronger army in their own territory, they implement a scorched earth policy.

This basically meanst that the home army keeps retreating while at the same time destroying all sources of food and shelter for the enemy (this strategy works best during winter). The home army retreats deeper and deeper within its own territory and once the enemy army gets weaker and weaker, they trap them and crush them.

This tactic worked amazingly against Napoleon and later Nazi Germany, both of whom invaded a weak Russia.

Now, at the time the Ottomans came into Iranian territory, it was the onset of Winter. So Ismail, having lost the battle, decided to implement the scorched earth policy.

He retreated further and further into Iranian territory, hoping that the Ottomans would follow him. The Ottoman's saw his trap, and instead of following the Iranian army, they decided to retreat bact to Ottoman territory, because it was about to be winter.

Why do you make a fool of yourself Kaiser tr? If you dont know something, dont make it worse by pretending that you do, that only makes you look stupid. Just ask and I am more than happy to inform you. I hahve study a lot more about history than you obviously, trying to argue with me wont get you anywhere.

[kaiser_tr]

please someone...anyone who has read these messages can tell me is it a tactic or not


is there anyone?? any objective iranian? please tell this "blinded patriotic" shappur the truth..

is it so hard to say "we lost the battle"




and shappur give me a link about this...i dont want explanation of the tactic..i want to see "iranians tried to drag ottomans inside of iran"


dont write unnecessary stuff...

[dogukan]

The lands conquered by Iranians does not match with the places conquered by Ottomans.The thing is,most of those lands was already yours.
Ottomans could beat Safavids but didn't concentrate on there.They had to fough aganist Europeans(crusades,poles,austro-hungarians,Germans),Russians and Safavids in the same time.It is true that Iranian empire was one of the strongest in the world in that time.Could beat any European country on one one probably but still they weren't strong as Ottomans.

[dogukan]

Retreating is a tactic but for the weaks ;)

[kaiser_tr]

hey shapur this text is from iranian sources read it...



Sultan Selim waged war also against the Safavids. On 23 August 1514, just west of Tabriz in Chalderan plain, Shah Esma'il's army suffered a crushing defeat, which its cavalry and infantry were armed with spears, bows and swords, fighting against Ottoman's superior numbers as well as field artillery and musketeers. Shah Esma'il and his followers firmly believed that Allah was on their side, but they were confused by their military setback, Tabriz, their capital was briefly occupied. This battle and defeat of Safavid Shah paved the path for the Ottoman conquest of Diyarbakr, Erzinjan, and other parts of eastern Anatolia as well as northern Iraq. Shah Esma'il himself found relief from psychological depression in wine, and died ten years later, at the age of thirty-seven.


what does it say???? ahh yeahh it says DEFEAT not anykind of tactic

[kaiser_tr]

by the way source of the text




http://www.iranchamber.com/history/safavids/safavids.php

[Shapur 2]

Kaiser, stop humiliating yourself. YOu misread posts then you go on and on and on and make yourself look really stupid.

please someone...anyone who has read these messages can tell me is it a tactic or not


is there anyone?? any objective iranian? please tell this "blinded patriotic" shappur the truth..

is it so hard to say "we lost the battle"

how many times have i said that the safavids lost the battle? read my posts.

after having LOST the battle, ismail tried the strategy of scorched earth policy.



and shappur give me a link about this...i dont want explanation of the tactic..i want to see "iranians tried to drag ottomans inside of iran"

THAT IS WHAT YOU POSTED. lol, stop making yourself look like an idiot.

here is what you yourself posted:



"The Ottomans pushed further and on August 23, 1514 managed to engage the Safavids in the Battle of Chaldiran west of Tabriz. The Safavids were defeated and, as the Ottoman force moved on Tabriz, engaged in scorched-earth combat. Tabriz was taken but the Ottoman army refused to follow the Safavids into the Persian highlands and by winter retreated from Tabriz. This warfare pattern repeated itself under Shah Tahmasp I and Sultan Suleiman I."



How do you feel now smart guy. I am ready for your apology.


The lands conquered by Iranians does not match with the places conquered by Ottomans.The thing is,most of those lands was already yours.

not really, the safavids, after winning the civil war in iran and coming to power, had to take a lot of the land back.


Ottomans could beat Safavids but didn't concentrate on there.They had to fough aganist Europeans(crusades,poles,austro-hungarians,Germans),Russians and Safavids in the same time.It is true that Iranian empire was one of the strongest in the world in that time.Could beat any European country on one one probably but still they weren't strong as Ottomans.

the ottomans and iranians were even. the wars in iraq proved this. to be the ruler of the islamic world, iraq was very imported. Iran and the ottomans fought for decades over iraq. as Kaiser posted, they kept going back and forth, each of them winning then losing then winnign then losing until a treaty was signed that distinguishes today's turkey iran border.


Retreating is a tactic but for the weaks ;)

no, its the tactic of the smart. Mohammad Ali, the boxer, also used this tactic in this boxing.

guerilla fighters also use this tactic, as did many armies in history. the russians crushed napoleon and the germans using these tactics.

brain always beats brawn.;)


hey shapur this text is from iranian sources read it...



Sultan Selim waged war also against the Safavids. On 23 August 1514, just west of Tabriz in Chalderan plain, Shah Esma'il's army suffered a crushing defeat, which its cavalry and infantry were armed with spears, bows and swords, fighting against Ottoman's superior numbers as well as field artillery and musketeers. Shah Esma'il and his followers firmly believed that Allah was on their side, but they were confused by their military setback, Tabriz, their capital was briefly occupied. This battle and defeat of Safavid Shah paved the path for the Ottoman conquest of Diyarbakr, Erzinjan, and other parts of eastern Anatolia as well as northern Iraq. Shah Esma'il himself found relief from psychological depression in wine, and died ten years later, at the age of thirty-seven.


what does it say???? ahh yeahh it says DEFEAT not anykind of tactic

deh du da....

kaiser, stop humiliating yourself. re read the thread buddy, and then apologize.

-----------

Kaiser, before taking me on in a debate like this, I think you should know that I know a looooooooooooot about the history of the Near East (do you even know where the Near East is?), the history of the Turkic people, the history of the Iranic people, and a lot about all aspects of history in general. I am also a good debater, and as you can see right now, I made you contradict yourself, while at the same time making you look like a fool. These are all debating tactics that you know nothing about. I'm trying to tell you that we can keep doing this day and night, but at the end, you contradicted yourself and made yourself look like a fool.

[dogukan]

Retreating is a good tactic yup thats right.But it's for the weak armies,weak armies retreat to weaken enemy and than attack them.Strong armies do not need this.

Hannibal used something like this in batte of Cannae
he made his center retreat so the enemy concentrated their attack on center.Than the troops in the sides attacked enemy and slaughtered them

This tactic was also used by Turks.For example in the battle of Manzikert.Seljuk army retreated and retreated and caused Byzantine army to seperate.Than attacked from sides with horse archers and prevented enemy from manovuering.
54 00 Turkish troops beat 100 000 Byzantine army

Anyways i still believe taht Ottomans were stronger than Safavids.Howewer ,it's a well known thing that the Safavids were among the top pwers of the world during those times.They just couldn't fight other because of Ottomans.

[Shapur 2]

Retreating is a good tactic yup thats right.But it's for the weak armies,weak armies retreat to weaken enemy and than attack them.Strong armies do not need this.

Strong armies also use it as an advantage when they can, to lessen casualties or make things easier for themselves.

infact, a smart general would retreat and fight on a better day/location rather than risk a battle, no matter how strong his army is. that is the mistake the allies made at galipoli.



Hannibal used something like this in batte of Cannae
he made his center retreat so the enemy concentrated their attack on center.Than the troops in the sides attacked enemy and slaughtered them

thats different. thats not scorched earth policy. also, doing something during a battle is different than a retreat.

hannibal ordered his center to fall back and suck the romans in, allowing his right and left flanks along with his cavalry to surround them. he massacred 50,000 roman soldiers that day.



This tactic was also used by Turks.For example in the battle of Manzikert.Seljuk army retreated and retreated and caused Byzantine army to seperate.Than attacked from sides with horse archers and prevented enemy from manovuering.
54 00 Turkish troops beat 100 000 Byzantine army

a lot of the byzantine army betrayed the emperor and left. the byzantines would have won if not for the mercenaries and traitor generals in the ranks.



Anyways i still believe taht Ottomans were stronger than Safavids.Howewer ,it's a well known thing that the Safavids were among the top pwers of the world during those times.They just couldn't fight other because of Ottomans.

the safavids and ottomans were equally powerful. I think your thinking of the Qajar's.

[GreekWarlord]

Seljuk Turkish Empire ???????

Seljuks Greeks moving through Central Asia for centuries, they had long been influenced by Islamic Persian culture converts to Islam come back and defeated the
Greek Byzantine Empire

Anatolia were once mostly Greek-speakers
The only conclusion from the predominantly
non-Central Asian genetic make up of the
modern Turks is that the majority
of their ancestors once were Greeks

After the Seljuks defeated the Byzantine armies, they ruled most of Anatolia, and made Iconium their capital in 1097, calling it "Qϋniya." By the time Mawlanas father was invited to move with his family to Iconium / Konya, the city had been the Seljuks capital for over 130 years. However, it seems likely that the majority of common people there still spoke Greek in Mawlanas day. Since the Seljuks had been moving through Central Asia for centuries, they had long been influenced by Islamic Persian culture.

[kaiser_tr]

oh great now the seljuks are greek?

[GreekWarlord]

turkey is greek === urum rum yunan ( greeks )

[kaiser_tr]

ohhh damn why i didnt know that. i've always liked blue and white...it all makes sense now... i'm gonna go to an orthodox church asap...

[Akinci-Raider]

ohhh damn why i didnt know that. i've always liked blue and white...it all makes sense now... i'm gonna go to an orthodox church asap...If yor gona go to church go to teh Lutheran one....Acording to greeks ''Shaka Zulu''was e greek to....

[kaiser_tr]

:biggrin1: :biggrin1: :biggrin1:

[GreekWarlord]

'' Shaka Zulu ''was e greek

Shaka Zulu stated he was a TurkAlbanian King from Black Planet !!!

[Akinci-Raider]

Shaka Zulu stated he was a TurkAlbanian King from Black Planet !!!Your genes are from Ethiopia.....most of the greeks in chicago they look like mavros......