Fear and Loathing in Iran [About Russian AAA systems]

[burster]

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20070928.aspx

Fear and Loathing in Iran

September 28, 2007:
Information coming out of Iran indicates that the military there is very dismayed at how ineffective new Russian anti-aircraft systems were during the Israeli September 6th air strike on a Syrian weapons development facility near the Iraqi border. Syria and Iran have both bought billions of dollars worth of the latest Russian anti-aircraft missile systems. Apparently the Israelis were able to blind these systems electronically. Syria isn't saying anything, nor are the Israelis, but Iranian officers are complaining openly that they have been had by the Russians. The Iranians bought Russian equipment based on assurances that the gear would detect and shoot down Israeli warplanes.

Over the Summer Russia delivered the first dozen or so (of 50) Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft systems to Syria. It is believed that some of these systems are going to Iran, if only because Iran is apparently paying for them. Russia made the sale to Syria, despite $13.4 billion still owned for past purchases. Russia forgave most (73 percent) of the old debt, and is taking some of the balance in goods. In return, Syria is able to buy $400 million worth of anti-aircraft systems, mainly the self-propelled Pantsir-S1. This is a mobile system, each vehicle carries radar, two 30mm cannon and twelve Tunguska missiles. The missiles have a twenty kilometer range, the radar a 30 kilometer range. The missile can hit targets at up to 26,000 feet. The 30mm cannon is effective up to 10,000 feet. The vehicle carrying all this weighs 20 tons and has a crew of three.

By selling to Syria, even via the use of an enormous discount, Russia gets another foreign customer for their new anti-aircraft systems. Previously, fifty of these systems had been sold to the United Arab Emirates. Each foreign sales make it easier to sell these systems to other foreign customers. But the poor performance in Syria makes it much more difficult to sell any Russian air defense systems (which have a spotty track record in any event.)
As a practical matter, Syria is too poor to ever pay back the forgiven debt, so forgiving the debt recognizes that reality. However, because Syria has been a client state of Iran for decades, the assertions that Iran put up the money, and will get many of the systems, carry a lot of weight. Iran would most likely use these systems to protect high value targets, like nuclear weapons research facilities. However, if anyone should get photos of these systems in Iran, there would be quite an uproar.
The Iranians fear an Israeli air strike against their nuclear weapons development facilities. It was thought the new Russian missiles and radars would persuade the Israelis to stay away. But now the raid on Syria looks like a dress rehearsal for one a little further east. Since Iranian leaders have openly called for the destruction of Israel, one can't deny the Israelis a little self-defense. Thus the cries and whispers in Iranian military headquarters. A lot of this is leaking on to Farsi language email and message boards. There is much angst and unhappiness.

[Vladimir80]

Strategy Page... :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3:

[Iranian Guards]

Iranian Defense can repel any airstrike

[Nubian Warrior]

Strategy Page... :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3:

HAHHAAAAHHHAAA! What's even funnier is missilethreat.
:lol3::lol3::lol3:

[Voozio]

Acctually, that was the first thing i thought, when i heard about the raid...
"Best AA systems" in the world didnt even scatched IAF planes. Embarassing.

[Iranian Guards]

Acctually, that was the first thing i thought, when i heard about the raid...
"Best AA systems" in the world didnt even scatched IAF planes. Embarassing. the systems in iran are working good. why israel does not try it :D?

[Vladimir80]

the systems in iran are working good. why israel does not try it :D?

Because we don't pay their welfare check.

[Voozio]

the systems in iran are working good. why israel does not try it :D?

Your bravada is understandable. However we are talking about Syria here.
And its AA defences. Not Iran and the possible raid on its nuclear installations.

[IR.IRAN]

could it have been a poor maintenance issue for syria??or even technical issue?

regarding irans case well its not fully dependant on russian equipment now is it? even if the russian equipment that they possess right now is not effecient ( no saying it isnt ) do you think that iran wouldnt actually repair or tweak it?

[Vladimir80]

could it have been a poor maintenance issue for syria??or even technical issue?

For all we know they might have shot down a plane.

[IR.IRAN]

For all we know they might have shot down a plane.

i guess your right, these days false media has reached its peak.

[Zraver]

For all we know they might have shot down a plane.

Where then are the pics as the Syrians celebrate thier triumph? Russia advertises a .9pk+ for its new missiels and not even one IDF plane was brought down, seems that the Russian arms failed to live up to thier claims once again.

[oli]

Where then are the pics as the Syrians celebrate thier triumph? Russia advertises a .9pk+ for its new missiels and not even one IDF plane was brought down, seems that the Russian arms failed to live up to thier claims once again.

It's Pantsir-S1 not S-300 :laugh4:

[worldleader]

the whole sequence of events seems murky to me with no clear evidence of any claims.

[Relikt]

This is really funny. No official Israel didnt said they blast anything in Syria especially some possible nuclear arm project.

All this was came when C.Rise said that Syria have possible nuclear arm project. She said that to misguide US public and to make aprove for Israel flights over Syria. We saw this in past too. Anyone remember Colin Powell very long speech about Sadam's WMD and Mig-21 modify in drones pack with anthrax just waiting Sadam command to attack its neighbors. And as peak of his speech some Aluminum rods bought by Iraq which will be use in Iraq nuclear arm program. US use lies trough its whole history it is nothing new. So why we would believe them now?

Then we had text in Sunday times (which is very "reliable") about some rambo israel commandos which guide Israel jets to target and then colect samples???
And then we have ex-Israel president which is ulra-right who prise Israel attack. And agian he was attack with official Israel because of his flaming statement.

There was no attack. Israel fly low and try to see how good defense of Syria is. Israel didnt fly over important targets which would be protected with advanced SHORT RANGE systems. I said SHORT RANGE. Also jets which are flying low can be very deadly. They dont need ECM if they can fly really low. Only air borne radars can detect them. Ground radar systems very hardly. So only IC or optic would be good way to detect them. I dont think that small radar on PANSIR or TUNGUSKA is enough this is why both systems have optic and IC too. Iraq had many 4x23 radar guided guns and still didnt protect airfields during GW.

So this isnt confirmation that Russian weapons sucks. Su-27 fly over US carrier. Carrier have very advanced radars and Su-27 successed in flying over it. Even relic Il-28 fly over US carrier. This only shows that without AWACS in air it is hard to detect and track low flyers.

In possible attack on Iran installations short range systems will be setup in pattern which will cover any approach. Also MANPADS will be there too.

[Supreme]

Strategy Page... :roflmao3: :roflmao3: :roflmao3:

strategy page is a bigger joke than zraver:roflmao3:

[Vladimir80]

strategy page is a bigger joke than zraver:roflmao3:

I don't know... at least there is a REAL defence analyst who posts on Strategy Page who goes by the name GF from Australia. He knows his stuff and we have respect for each other. I laugh at any other post though.

[abu sulayman]

I would say Zraver is probably correct on this one.

I know that Israel had developed the 'Popeye' missile for the purpose of taking out the S-300.
It could have been a probe to test Syria's air defenses, which seem to be non-existant, which would indicate that Iran's could be defeated with similar ease.

Lets not confuse bravado and nationalism for reality, guys. Israel's electronic countermeasures are fully a generation ahead of anything in the Muslim world.
They keep testing it and refining it at our expense regularly.

Assymetrical warfare is the best defense.

[jawwal]

I would say Zraver is probably correct on this one.

I know that Israel had developed the 'Popeye' missile for the purpose of taking out the S-300.
It could have been a probe to test Syria's air defenses, which seem to be non-existant, which would indicate that Iran's could be defeated with similar ease.

Lets not confuse bravado and nationalism for reality, guys. Israel's electronic countermeasures are fully a generation ahead of anything in the Muslim world.
They keep testing it and refining it at our expense regularly.

Assymetrical warfare is the best defense.

The only thing this raid on syria proved is the unwillingness of Syria to shoot down any Israeli jets at the present time. It clearly shows they are not willing at the moment to risk a war that would engulf the whole region.
It has nothing to do with the effectiveness of any Russian missiles, propaganda war to influence people's minds no more no less.

[Vladimir80]

The only thing this raid on syria proved is the unwillingness of Syria to shoot down any Israeli jets at the present time. It clearly shows they are not willing at the moment to risk a war that would engulf the whole region.
It has nothing to do with the effectiveness of any Russian missiles, propaganda war to influence people's minds no more no less.

The last thing it proves or disproves is nothing about Russian SAM systems. Anyone speculating otherwise is pulling a debka.

[burster]

Vlad,

So what will you say if the US attacks Iran's nuclear facilities and suffers no aircraft lost to Russian SAM systems?

The last thing it proves or disproves is nothing about Russian SAM systems. Anyone speculating otherwise is pulling a debka.

[Vladimir80]

Vlad,

So what will you say if the US attacks Iran's nuclear facilities and suffers no aircraft lost to Russian SAM systems?

They only have two regiments of S-300. It isn't much good against stealth aircraft. TOR-M1 isn't going to hit high flying JDAM droppers. Iran has not invested enough in a modern Russian SAM network for it to be a concern.

[worldleader]

well said vladimir

[lBlackWaterl]

The only thing this raid on syria proved is the unwillingness of Syria to shoot down any Israeli jets at the present time. It clearly shows they are not willing at the moment to risk a war that would engulf the whole region.
It has nothing to do with the effectiveness of any Russian missiles, propaganda war to influence people's minds no more no less.

your tryna make it look as though syria didint even attempt anything. The fact is, those systems failed, an embarrasment for russia and syria, irans army now has a problem with it, so sorry. It fully shows the effectiveness of the russian missles.

[Cedric]

The only thing this raid on syria proved is the unwillingness of Syria to shoot down any Israeli jets at the present time. It clearly shows they are not willing at the moment to risk a war that would engulf the whole region.
.


Give me a break, enemy planes fly over your positions on your territory and you don't want to shoot them down for fear of war?, yeah right. The truth is that Syria could not bring them down.:roflmao3:

.

[lBlackWaterl]

Give me a break, enemy planes fly over your positions on your territory and you don't want to shoot them down for fear of war?, yeah right. The truth is that Syria could not bring them down.:roflmao3:

.Thats what im sayin'. Syria shot at them but nothing happened. And the planes were deep into syria aswell, not just afew meters into the borders or something

[Ya2]

Thats what im sayin'. Syria shot at them but nothing happened. And the planes were deep into syria aswell, not just afew meters into the borders or something

and can't the syrian AA also shoot down jets out side of their territory?

[Assad]

your tryna make it look as though syria didint even attempt anything. The fact is, those systems failed, an embarrasment for russia and syria, irans army now has a problem with it, so sorry. It fully shows the effectiveness of the russian missles.

doubt it. all it proves again is Syria is unwilling to be accidently drawn into a war in which Iran and US will automatically be dragged in as well which would send the region to hell and high water. and for goodness sake lets for once state very clearly: Pantysir system is a SHORT RANGE system for point defense of high value locations.

[jawwal]

your tryna make it look as though syria didint even attempt anything. The fact is, those systems failed, an embarrasment for russia and syria, irans army now has a problem with it, so sorry. It fully shows the effectiveness of the russian missles.

The syrians only reacted with their anti-air cannons, that is their usual tactics to show that they faced the israeli without having to shoot down any jets. They are not willing at the moment to start the war.

[jawwal]

Give me a break, enemy planes fly over your positions on your territory and you don't want to shoot them down for fear of war?, yeah right. The truth is that Syria could not bring them down.:roflmao3:

.

This the reality of the situation, not the right time for war, unless forced upon them by Israel. Syria and Iran donot want to give the U.S the excuse to start its crazy war. If the U.S wants the war, it has to stand up against most of the world and its own people to lauch a war that would benefit no one, except maybe some Texans weapons sellers.

[indianguy]

This the reality of the situation, not the right time for war, unless forced upon them by Israel. Syria and Iran donot want to give the U.S the excuse to start its crazy war. If the U.S wants the war, it has to stand up against most of the world and its own people to lauch a war that would benefit no one, except maybe some Texans weapons sellers.

Agreed , its Israel who wants to start a war with Syria . as soon as Israel attack Syria .. Iran will come in the screen and as soon as Iran will come Americans will join the Israelis.

In real Israel is worried about Iran's growing power which is challenging its domination in Middle East region.

[Iranian Guards]

^^^ wait a second... i remember iran signed a defence pact with syria.
when syria is attacked iran must quickly,directly defend this country.

[worldleader]

well that means israel is itching for america to bomb iran.

[PERSPOLIS]

^^^ wait a second... i remember iran signed a defence pact with syria.
when syria is attacked iran must quickly,directly defend this country.

this was not really an attack, they fired few milles inside turkey

with stand off weapons, bombing an abonded military building...

[PERSPOLIS]

USAF AWACS was jamming from northern Iraq as well.

[Cedric]

^^^ wait a second... i remember iran signed a defence pact with syria.
when syria is attacked iran must quickly,directly defend this country.

Yes, there was an agreement signed. Why will Iran and Syria not retaliate? Are they both too afraid? Please enlighten me.

.

[Ya2]

^^^ wait a second... i remember iran signed a defence pact with syria.
when syria is attacked iran must quickly,directly defend this country.

So why didn't Iran attack Israel ?
This was an Attack, nothing more , nothing less..

[skhara]

Indian guy, I think you should post your article in this thread too. Everyone wants to force their wishful thinking propaganda as truth.

[crod]

For all we know they might have shot down a plane.

and not paraded the fact? i dont think so...

[Vladimir80]

and not paraded the fact? i dont think so...

Same can be said for Israeli silence... a catch 22.

[JEskandari]

Thats what im sayin'. Syria shot at them but nothing happened. And the planes were deep into syria aswell, not just afew meters into the borders or something
yes Syria shoot at them but not with AA missiles but with 32mm AA guns.
and I wont recall Israel bombed somewhere and didn't boast about it.they even boasted about bombing USS Liberty.

[indianguy]

So why didn't Iran attack Israel ?
This was an Attack, nothing more , nothing less..

Israel in real wants Americans to fight its war and want to shed the blood of Americans for Israel.

Seems you havnt understand what President Assad have told ..

"Retaliate doesn't mean missile for missile and bomb for bomb. We have our means to retaliate, maybe politically, maybe in other ways. But we have the right to retaliate,"

............................................................ ............................................

Syria: More details about the Israeli warplanes

Syria not only denied the fake report of the Sunday Times only, but gave more details about the Israeli airplanes and saying the Israeli airplanes were targeting Iran.

According Syrian sources and Israeli warplanes were targeting Iran must pass through either Turkey, Jordan-Saudi Arabia or Syria, of course the choice was Syria to spare other neighboring States the Iranian retaliation.

8 Israeli warplanes F-15 and F-16 equipped with AGM-65 Maverick and is the march of air-to-surface missiles and equipped with laser cameras to identify targets and to strik strategic objectives complex and each aircraft loaded with bombs weights 225 kilograms and equipped with reserve fuel tanks for long-range flights with very low altitude towards Iran, but the Syria radar revealed the operation.

Syria anti-aircrafts batteries delayed to respond, they wanted to be certain that these airplanes are not Turkish military, then an immediate order was given to create an anti-aircraft wall forced the Israeli pilots to return and during the escape some of those planes dropped cargo to speed up the escape.

Because of the failure of the operation the Israeli government kept silent and secret from the press, so not to become a new scandal after the defeat of Israel in the last July war.

http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2007/09/24/syria-more-details-about-the-israeli-warplanes/

[Ya2]

Same can be said for Israeli silence... a catch 22.

Offical Israel said today there was an attack.

[Vladimir80]

Offical Israel said today there was an attack.

Did they say anything?

[Ya2]

Israel in real wants Americans to fight its war and want to shed the blood of Americans for Israel.

Seems you havnt understand what President Assad have told ..

"Retaliate doesn't mean missile for missile and bomb for bomb. We have our means to retaliate, maybe politically, maybe in other ways. But we have the right to retaliate,"

............................................................ ............................................

Syria: More details about the Israeli warplanes

Syria not only denied the fake report of the Sunday Times only, but gave more details about the Israeli airplanes and saying the Israeli airplanes were targeting Iran.

According Syrian sources and Israeli warplanes were targeting Iran must pass through either Turkey, Jordan-Saudi Arabia or Syria, of course the choice was Syria to spare other neighboring States the Iranian retaliation.

8 Israeli warplanes F-15 and F-16 equipped with AGM-65 Maverick and is the march of air-to-surface missiles and equipped with laser cameras to identify targets and to strik strategic objectives complex and each aircraft loaded with bombs weights 225 kilograms and equipped with reserve fuel tanks for long-range flights with very low altitude towards Iran, but the Syria radar revealed the operation.

Syria anti-aircrafts batteries delayed to respond, they wanted to be certain that these airplanes are not Turkish military, then an immediate order was given to create an anti-aircraft wall forced the Israeli pilots to return and during the escape some of those planes dropped cargo to speed up the escape.

Because of the failure of the operation the Israeli government kept silent and secret from the press, so not to become a new scandal after the defeat of Israel in the last July war.

http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2007/09/24/syria-more-details-about-the-israeli-warplanes/

What a bad excuse you gave to my question

[Ya2]

Did they say anything?

No, no operational info only claiming there was an attack.. waiting for more info if there ever will be... they probably have waited for Assad to talk first and after he did they got an ok for publishing it

[Vladimir80]

They stay silent because they are embarrassed they had to flee like dogs with tails between their legs.

[Ya2]

They stay silent because they are embarrassed they had to flee like dogs with tails between their legs.

Give proofs :wub2:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3455752,00.html


Someone who get into the "Best AA Defeneded area in the middle-east" has balls dont you think ?

[Assad]

Give proofs :wub2:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3455752,00.html


Someone who get into the "Best AA Defeneded area in the middle-east" has balls dont you think ?

NOPE...they are plain stupid...and in any case "best aa defended aread in M-E" is an over exageration - way over and above the call of duty.

I guess you still have not figured it out have you? by doing the above the israeli's have violated the sovernigty of Syria and international law...and since they have hardly been condemend at all...then by the same token...what Hizbollah did in 2006 was fair and the Israeli reaction was too much!! get it ...TIT for TAT where will all this get us?...WAR

[Ya2]

NOPE...they are plain stupid...and in any case "best aa defended aread in M-E" is an over exageration - way over and above the call of duty.

I guess you still have not figured it out have you? by doing the above the israeli's have violated the sovernigty of Syria and international law...and since they have hardly been condemend at all...then by the same token...what Hizbollah did in 2006 was fair and the Israeli reaction was too much!! get it ...TIT for TAT where will all this get us?...WAR

But nuclear weapons in syria are ok..

[Assad]

But nuclear weapons in syria are ok..

First : are nuclear weapons in Israel ok? no NO NO...Israel must dismantle and surrender all its existing nuclear weapons AND nuclear weapons development programs and submit itself to IAEA inspections regime and international intrusive verification AND sign the NPT treaty.... as well as abide by all security council resolutions against it...

Second : there are no nuclear weapons in Syria, unlike of course Israel! NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS! and just to make sure ...N O N U C L E A R W E A P O N S in Syria.

Third : there is no nuclear weapons program of any sort in Syria, unlike of course Israel! again NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM OF ANY SORT IN SYRIA! and just to make sure:
N O N U C L E A R W E A P O N S P R O G R A M S.

so you see your talking out of your league AGAIN...we have a saying in Arabic, the donkey learns by the third time....i hope the message has sunk in.

[indianguy]

No, no operational info only claiming there was an attack.. waiting for more info if there ever will be... they probably have waited for Assad to talk first and after he did they got an ok for publishing it

Quite Interesting .. that IDF is waiting for President Assad to talk more ..

BBC is doing what ? letting help Israel to solve this mystery slowly slowly or what ?

Still the site which was targetted in Syria by Israel is still a mystery . Alleged Site.

[Ya2]

First : are nuclear weapons in Israel ok? no NO NO...Israel must dismantle and surrender all its existing nuclear weapons AND nuclear weapons development programs and submit itself to IAEA inspections regime and international intrusive verification AND sign the NPT treaty.... as well as abide by all security council resolutions against it...

Second : there are no nuclear weapons in Syria, unlike of course Israel! NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS! and just to make sure ...N O N U C L E A R W E A P O N S in Syria.

Third : there is no nuclear weapons program of any sort in Syria, unlike of course Israel! again NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM OF ANY SORT IN SYRIA! and just to make sure:
N O N U C L E A R W E A P O N S P R O G R A M S.

so you see your talking out of your league AGAIN...we have a saying in Arabic, the donkey learns by the third time....i hope the message has sunk in.

Today there are no nukes in syria but what about if i asked u 1 month ago..
give proofs for Israeli nukes

[Ya2]

Quite Interesting .. that IDF is waiting for President Assad to talk more ..

BBC is doing what ? letting help Israel to solve this mystery slowly slowly or what ?

Still the site which was targetted in Syria by Israel is still a mystery . Alleged Site.

It's not like the prime minister told them to publish info about the attack, there's a section in our military that allows or doesn't allow info to get out of the army.... they said their reason for publishing was because of Assad and our opposition leader talkings in the media and that there's no real reason to deny...

[Assad]

Today there are no nukes in syria but what about if i asked u 1 month ago..
give proofs for Israeli nukes

Vannunu...enough said...

[oli]

Are people still questioning whether Israel has nukes or not? It's even though that they even tested one over 20 years ago.

[Ya2]

Are people still questioning whether Israel has nukes or not? It's even though that they even tested one over 20 years ago.

20 years ago there was a test? where? give me a link please cause i never heard Israel had nukes :worried2:

[oli]

20 years ago there was a test? where? give me a link please cause i never heard Israel had nukes :worried2:

Few links here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_nuclear_weapons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons#Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_Incident
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4515586.stm

[indianguy]

Are people still questioning whether Israel has nukes or not? It's even though that they even tested one over 20 years ago.

Dont waste urs time on Ya2 , he needs source for everything and he is a big denier and when a confirmed source is given to him , he changes the topic .

Even if you ask him abt his roots .. May be he will give you answer with sources.

[Ya2]

Dont waste urs time on Ya2 , he needs source for everything and he is a big denier and when a confirmed source is given to him , he changes the topic .

Even if you ask him abt his roots .. May be he will give you answer with sources.

you guys dont have facts of any nuclear bomb so why do you keep claiming without a base..

[JEskandari]

you guys dont have facts of any nuclear bomb so why do you keep claiming without a base..
what ABOUT WHEN MR. OLMERT THREATENED IRAN with nuclear weapons ,and if you wont have nukes why you wont sign NPT.

[Ya2]

what ABOUT WHEN MR. OLMERT THREATENED IRAN with nuclear weapons ,and if you wont have nukes why you wont sign NPT.

a link ?....

[indianguy]

you guys dont have facts of any nuclear bomb so why do you keep claiming without a base..

Do Israel have any nuclear programme ? and if yes what is the nature of this Nuclear programme ?

[TOMMYJO]

you guys dont have facts of any nuclear bomb so why do you keep claiming without a base..

Israel's reactor history and its potential plutonium production goes back a long way.

Mordechai Vanunu spent 18 years in jail for revealing Israel's nuclear weapons production capability.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1269397,00.html

Olmert's slip up in interview

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3338783,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/12/uisrael112.xml

Dimona revealed

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/documents/reveal/index.html

Israel - Plutonium Production

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/israel/plut.html

The UK's role in the sale of plutonium to Israel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4789832.stm

Norways supply of Heavy Water to Israel.

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/editorials/1988/heavywaterscandals.htm

Other links

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/23/wnuke23.xml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/892941.stm

[indianguy]

Israel's reactor history and its potential plutonium production goes back a long way.

Mordechai Vanunu spent 18 years in jail for revealing Israel's nuclear weapons production capability.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1269397,00.html

Olmert's slip up in interview

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3338783,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/12/uisrael112.xml

Dimona revealed

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/documents/reveal/index.html

Israel - Plutonium Production

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/israel/plut.html

The UK's role in the sale of plutonium to Israel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4789832.stm

Norways supply of Heavy Water to Israel.

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/pubs/editorials/1988/heavywaterscandals.htm

Other links

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/23/wnuke23.xml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/892941.stm

Thanks but still Israelis will not talk about Israeli Nuclear weapons programme ,there are just worried about Iranian Nuclear programme .

Too many deniers are in here .

[Voozio]

I think Ya2 been teasing you. :)

[indianguy]

I think Ya2 been teasing you. :)

Yes .. 2 are there .. Ya2 and Choas .

[Voozio]

Yes .. 2 are there .. Ya2 and Choas .

Well, there is no hard proof (YET). But everyone know that we have nukes for sure.
Just like theres no hard proof (YET), that Iran is after the nuclear bomb.
But everyone know that they are after it for sure.

[indianguy]

Well, there is no hard proof (YET). But everyone know that we have nukes for sure.
Just like theres no hard proof (YET), that Iran is after the nuclear bomb.
But everyone know that they are after it for sure.

According American intelligence .. weeks before 1967 war .Israel was having nukes.

No one can decide what Iranians wants only IAEA can say .

Lets see after having the IAEA report in November .

Coz after Iraq's WMD's intelligence failures .. its hard to trust on any western intelligence including Mossad .

Hope you understood what i meant.There is no solid prove that Iran is after nuclear bomb and even if Iran is having nuclear bomb ,Iran will act like Israel.
and will never openly admit that Iran is having Nuclear bomb.

[worldleader]

off topic!

[Ya2]

I think Ya2 been teasing you. :)

I'm probably the only one here who Entered Dimona..

[indianguy]

I'm probably the only one here who Entered Dimona..

Hope you will not say like urs Government that Dimona is a manganese plant or a textile factory.

France built a uranium reactor and plutonium reprocessing plant in the Negev desert, called Dimona between 1950 - 55. and it went online in 1964 .

So as you entered Dimona .. What really is Dimona ?

I Dont think taht Israel is producing electricity from Dimona.

and there would be no security for any manganese plant or textile factory as we found in Dimona and you are not any security guard to enter and guard Dimona.

[Vladimir80]

I'm probably the only one here who Entered Dimona..

Your probably the only one here with radiation poisoning too. That would explain your posts. :roflmao3: