China's air defense nearly impenetrable for US, official says

[Sinosphere]

While the US has been tied up fighting the war in Iraq, China has made huge gains toward modernizing its military and improving its equipment, and its air defenses are now nearly impenetrable to all but the newest of US fighters, the senior US military official in Japan said.

Lieutenant General Bruce Wright, commander of the roughly 50,000 US forces in Japan, Washington's biggest ally in Asia, said in an interview this week the Iraq War is reducing the availability of US troops and equipment to meet other contingencies and eating up funds that might be used to replace or upgrade planes that are being pushed to their operational limits.

China, meanwhile, is filling the skies with newer, Russian-made Sukhoi Su-27 "Flankers" and Su-30s, along with the domestically built J-10, a state-of-the-art fighter that Beijing just rolled out in January.

China has also improved its ballistic missile defenses and its ability to take the fight into space -- as it proved by shooting down an old weather satellite at an orbital height similar to that used by the US military.

Wright stressed he is "positive" about the current efforts to increase diplomatic and political engagement with Beijing. But he said the Chinese military buildup is disconcerting.

"Are we in trouble? It depends on the scenario," Wright said in the interview on Thursday. "But you have to be concerned about the small number of our forces and the age of our forces."

Wright said the US Air Force's fleet is older than ever.

The average age of the F-15 fighters, for example, is about 24 years, while that of the KC-135 Stratotanker, a mid-air refueling plane that is a key element in the Air Force's ability to conduct long-range missions, is 46 years.

Wright, who was at this air base on Japan's southern island of Okinawa to meet with local commanding officers, said the improvement in Chinese air defenses had made China's airspace "difficult if not impossible" to penetrate with the kind of US fighters -- F-15s and F-16s -- now deployed in Japan.

Doing so would require the F-22 or the Joint Strike Fighter, which both have stealth capabilities. The Air Force sent a dozen F-22s to Japan earlier this year, but only for a temporary deployment. It has no plans to send more there permanently.

The Joint Strike Fighter, or F-35, is not yet combat-ready.

"Our planes are much older than the planes they would be matched against," Wright said. "For the first time in history, we are seeing another nation, in this case China, with newer fighters than we have. We know that they continue to invest at a level that is unprecedented. We need to be watchful of Chinese military capabilities."

He said the demands of supporting ground troops in Iraq has pushed the Air Force to draw on its fighters from virtually anywhere they can be found. Two US F-16 fighter squadrons from the base in Misawa, Japan, are rotating in and out of Iraq.

"The question is how much more are they going to need," he said. "They are already pulling them out of Misawa, so where else are they going to come from?"

Wright said Beijing is also at an advantage because it is not at war.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2007/09/30/2003381007

[Falco]

i totaly understand chinas ambitions.
nowerdays without a really strong air defence you cant win a war at all. no matter how big your ground forces or air force is.

[Vladimir80]

I thought this article was about Chinese air defence....not USAF.

[Sinosphere]

I thought this article was about Chinese air defence....not USAF.

I think the general commented on a bit of both. ;)

[Vladimir80]

I think the general commented on a bit of both. ;)

He didn't mention anything on Chinese SAMs... they have made many purchases of latest Russian designs and have reverse engineered them.

[Sinosphere]

He didn't mention anything on Chinese SAMs... they have made many purchases of latest Russian designs and have reverse engineered them.

I think the article only shows his view in general and at first glance rather than go into specifics that China's air defence is nearly impenetrable.

He says that the current US fighters are not enough and only the F-22 are capable.

The general was mainly comparing their US fighters and China's air defence capabilities which comprises the Sukhoi's, J-10 and the SAMs.

So I think he was only giving a general analysis.

[apple_fritta]

Thank god there is someone who can stand up to warlords and say NO.

[rabs]

Thank god there is someone who can stand up to warlords and say NO.

Not really.

You have to understand how the US procurement system works. The entire point of this general going public was to get him so shiny new raptors stationed in Japan. This article had absolutely nothing to do with the capabilities of the Chinese air defense. The Chinese would run out of missiles before the took out all of the land based and carrier based aircraft in the Pacific theater.

[Sokuy30]

Not really.

You have to understand how the US procurement system works. The entire point of this general going public was to get him so shiny new raptors stationed in Japan. This article had absolutely nothing to do with the capabilities of the Chinese air defense. The Chinese would run out of missiles before the took out all of the land based and carrier based aircraft in the Pacific theater.
Don't even think there would be no war between u.s. & china, K-mart and wal-mart won't let it happen.
Chinese are more fanatic about their nation than any islamists.

[Sinosphere]

Don't even think there would be no war between u.s. & china, K-mart and wal-mart won't let it happen.
Chinese are more fanatic about their nation than any islamists.

I think the only possibility of conflict between China and the US is over Taiwan.

There won't be a war initiated unilaterally against the other.

I am not sure about the fanatics part, Chinese people are patriotic but not fanatics.

[retaxis]

I think the only possibility of conflict between China and the US is over Taiwan.

There won't be a war initiated unilaterally against the other.

I am not sure about the fanatics part, Chinese people are patriotic but not fanatics.

OF course if USA invades we are not going to suicide and do some crazy ****. As proven in the Border war and the Sino-Jap wars.

[Sinosphere]

OF course if USA invades we are not going to suicide and do some crazy ****. As proven in the Border war and the Sino-Jap wars.

If this unfortunate situation occurs of the US invading China, then China would respond in a reasonable and logical way.

[Sokuy30]

I think the only possibility of conflict between China and the US is over Taiwan.

There won't be a war initiated unilaterally against the other.

I am not sure about the fanatics part, Chinese people are patriotic but not fanatics.
You love something so much you become fanatic.
I fanaticaly love my dogs, You see I did not say my Wife.
When you are ready to die for your nation you fanaticaly love your country.

[Sinosphere]

You love something so much you become fanatic.
I fanaticaly love my dogs, You see I did not say my Wife.
When you are ready to die for your nation you fanaticaly love your country.

I am sure you love your wife very much. :wub2:

[Sokuy30]

I am sure you love your wife very much. :wub2:
Until men figures out Women He is lost!
It is harder than world politics.

[Sinosphere]

Until men figures out Women He is lost!
It is harder than world politics.

Does that mean you are lost in your wife's sea of love? :biggrin1:

[worldleader]

sinosphere what's up you dont want 2 be his wife? dont cause rift in their marriage man.

[Sinosphere]

sinosphere what's up you dont want 2 be his wife? dont cause rift in their marriage man.

I don't understand your meaning.

I am only saying that he really loves his wife and trapped in her sea of love. :wub2:

[Vladimir80]

Does that mean you are lost in your wife's sea of love? :biggrin1:

Sea of love... :lol3:

[worldleader]

sorry sinosphere...it was a misunderstanding. forget it.

[Sinosphere]

sorry sinosphere...it was a misunderstanding. forget it.

No worries, you are forgiven :wub2:

[Sinosphere]

Sea of love... :lol3:

I am practicing my english vocabulary. :wub2:

[Sokuy30]

Does that mean you are lost in your wife's sea of love? :biggrin1:
Sorry I had to leave earlier, Democrats had problem and could not solve it.
You said sea of love! I am looking at 2 inch stream only
that need 4 inch rock to block the water flow ,
Love in America lives in dreams only , what you bought for women last night rules , materialistic world.
you should have s-400 to shoot down their f-22s, women here they know how to fly it with eyes closed.

[Sinosphere]

Sorry I had to leave earlier, Democrats had problem and could not solve it.
You said sea of love! I am looking at 2 inch stream only
that need 4 inch rock to block the water flow ,
Love in America lives in dreams only , what you bought for women last night rules , materialistic world.
you should have s-400 to shoot down their f-22s, women here they know how to fly it with eyes closed.

I think the S-400 is a great system, but I don't think China would get them soon since it is quite new for Russia.

Maybe later. :wub2:

[skhara]

The F-22 doesn't have stealth capability. Where does this silly notion come from?

[rabs]

The F-22 doesn't have stealth capability. Where does this silly notion come from?

Im sorry there is only one thing that can be used to respond to this

giggle.

[Sokuy30]

Im sorry there is only one thing that can be used to respond to this

giggle.

I was compairing F-22 to women and s-400 to man,
can someone tell me which one is deadlier.

[skhara]

Im sorry there is only one thing that can be used to respond to this

giggle.

Ok giggle if you want, it still doesn't make it stealth. That said, it may be the most formidable craft for aerial superiority.

[KMS_Tripitz]

Ok giggle if you want, it still doesn't make it stealth. That said, it may be the most formidable craft for aerial superiority.

The F-22 is a full stealth aircraft. Why am I even bothering to respond to this rubbish.

[Vladimir80]

The F-22 is a full stealth aircraft. Why am I even bothering to respond to this rubbish.

What do you mean by "Full"? It is well known to be visible from the top/bottom aspect as well as less stealthy from the sides.

[mustavaris]

Strong Chicom military = more money for the JSF and F22 and new projects. It does not really matter whether the Americans really think like this or not, but the point is clear: Red Threat is still there, more money for the fancy toys so they can beat the commies if there is need! Just like in good old days when some of the stuff allegedly done/planned by the Soviets was pure scifi.. now the approach is more down to earth though.

[mustavaris]

Sorry I had to leave earlier, Democrats had problem and could not solve it.
You said sea of love! I am looking at 2 inch stream only
that need 4 inch rock to block the water flow ,
Love in America lives in dreams only , what you bought for women last night rules , materialistic world.
you should have s-400 to shoot down their f-22s, women here they know how to fly it with eyes closed.

Quite a crappy women you got there on that side of the pond. Or maybe there problem is found in you?

[mustavaris]

What do you mean by "Full"? It is well known to be visible from the top/bottom aspect as well as less stealthy from the sides.

There are no stealthy aircraft. Just more or less LO features.:wub2:

[Relikt]

The F-22 doesn't have stealth capability. Where does this silly notion come from?
LoL

Try to say that to British typhoon pilots which had mock fight with F-22. They will be very pissed off by your comment. They couldnt lock F-22 on 20km (or miles I dont remember).

[Sokuy30]

Quite a crappy women you got there on that side of the pond. Or maybe there problem is found in you?
For sure I am not frozen brain as you, Go fishing bro.

[mustavaris]

For sure I am not frozen brain as you, Go fishing bro.

Frozen brain. Itīs +13 out there, but fishing wouldnīt be a bad idea.. but due to work I guess that the next chance will be on Saturday...

[Relikt]

Frozen brain. Itīs +13 out there, but fishing wouldnīt be a bad idea.. but due to work I guess that the next chance will be on Saturday...
In Belgrade is over 20 Celsius :) Nice sunny day.
I hear some excellent joke about low temperatures and Fins. It was so good. I would try to translate it when I find paper with text. For each lower temperature joke compare what Fins doing and what others are doing.

[mustavaris]

In Belgrade is over 20 Celsius :) Nice sunny day.
I hear some excellent joke about low temperatures and Fins. It was so good. I would try to translate it when I find paper with text. For each lower temperature joke compare what Fins doing and what others are doing.

Gotta add that this +13 is high considering the season:wub2: It does not even rain now and the grass is green, and I actually saw sun in the morning. And damn, I am stuck inside!

I guess that I have heard that joke sometime, but cannot remember the details.

[skhara]

LoL

Try to say that to British typhoon pilots which had mock fight with F-22. They will be very pissed off by your comment. They couldnt lock F-22 on 20km (or miles I dont remember).

Your guys located the "invisible" F-117 on radar.

[mustavaris]

Your guys located the "invisible" F-117 on radar.

Itīs bottom is not quite stealthy. And still, it was just one F117 they downed.

[rabs]

Try to say that to British typhoon pilots which had mock fight with F-22. They will be very pissed off by your comment. They couldnt lock F-22 on 20km (or miles I dont remember).

The exact quote was " I cant get weapon systems on that thing (the raptor) when i can see it out of the cockpit. The plane is f$#$ing magic."


Granted this was front aspect engagement (what the F-22 was designed for) but when your IR and radar suppression systems are good enough to be able to deny anyone the ability to engage at WVR thats pretty impressive.

[skhara]

Itīs bottom is not quite stealthy. And still, it was just one F117 they downed.

Yeah, but they saw it on radar. In fact they used radar to track their flight patterns. They turned radar on for very brief periods of time because they get detected and attacked.

[KMS_Tripitz]

The exact quote was " I cant get weapon systems on that thing (the raptor) when i can see it out of the cockpit. The plane is f$#$ing magic."


Granted this was front aspect engagement (what the F-22 was designed for) but when your IR and radar suppression systems are good enough to be able to deny anyone the ability to engage at WVR thats pretty impressive.

This is why the wont sell this plane to anyone else, not even its closest allies.

I think we saw something similar with some Isreali planes using a less advanced systems when they flew through alot of syrian airspace to deep inside syria nearly to the Iraqi border and did that raid. Reports indicate even Syrias newest airdefences were rendered ineffective due to some form of new jamming not seen before. The Jamming occured on a massive scale and affected communications in the region for 5 days. Be interesting to see what this was.

[worldleader]

the reports that you mention come from particular sources with particular inclinations.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

China made their "air" defense capabilitiy quite clear when they blew up that satellite that one time. Then again, shooting down something in a predictable orbit is different from a low-RCS agile plane.