Officials in Syrian site deny attack; invite press to visit

[indianguy]

Sep 30, 2007 15:25 | Updated Sep 30, 2007 16:20
Officials in Syrian site deny attack; invite press to visit

"The Arab Center for the Studies of Arid Zones and Dry Lands" in Syria called the claims of an Israeli strike "lies and fabrications", AFP reported on Sunday.

Center officials denied the reports and said that after they had seen pictures of the center in newspapers, they realized that the alleged strike was supposedly carried our in one of their abandoned sites.

An official message by the center read: "We were astonished by reports of an Israeli strike on one of our centers. The reports about the center in the Zionist press are lies and fabrications."

The center also offered journalists from around the world a tour of the location.

Two weeks ago, Syrian Ambassador to the United Nations Bashar Ja'afari said that nothing in Syria was bombed by the IAF, and nothing was damaged. Reports of such an attack were "ridiculous and not true," Army Radio reported Ja'afari as saying. Ja'afari added that "Syria does not have North Korean nuclear facilities."

The Washington Post reported that the US had been gathering evidence, mainly from Israel, over the past six months that North Korea had been cooperating with Syria on a nuclear facility. This evidence - codenamed 'Orchard' - was said to include "dramatic satellite imagery that led some US officials to believe that the facility could be used to produce material for nuclear weapons."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411514513&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[IR.IRAN]

looks like the zionist just made an *** of themselves..

[Iranian Guards]

LOL... so the attack was just a lie?
death to the zionists.

[Voozio]

Of course it was all lie. :)
It took them only 24 days to realize this.
Now you can all relax.

[Vladimir80]

Now all you Russian SAM haters can put a sock in it. :roflmao3:

[IR.IRAN]

Now all you Russian SAM haters can put a sock in it. :roflmao3:

:roflmao3: pretty happy now arnt ya

[indianguy]

If Syria would have any illegal Nuclear activities , as Israel is claiming . I dont think that UN's Nuclear Watchdog, IAEA would ever elect Syria as co-chairman of the IAEA after 2 weeks of the alleged bombing raid in Syria.

[Voozio]

If Syria would have any illegal Nuclear activities , as Israel is claiming . I dont think that UN's Nuclear Watchdog, IAEA would ever elect Syria as co-chairman of the IAEA after 2 weeks of the alleged bombing raid in Syria.

Thats were you all wrong. Israel is not claiming anything.
Its all started and finished with TIMES report.
The only official word was that of Bibi Netanyahu, which only said that he was informed about the raid. Not even a single word about the objective.
We are only speculating here.

[Vladimir80]

The Zionists let the story run to derail the peace talks.

[Merchbanks]

If really nothing happened in there, they would release this statement weeks ago.

Not now.

Something obviously did happened, either it wouldn't took them 3 weeks to cover it up.

And Israel did not claim anything.

[burster]

IR.Iran,

Why? What makes these Syrians so truthful? How do we even know that this was the site that was attacked, assuming there was an attack? It's been three weeks. More than enough time to bulldoze any craters, remove any rubble, and tidy the place up to look like a nice, calm, potemkin village.


looks like the zionist just made an *** of themselves..

[indianguy]

If really nothing happened in there, they would release this statement weeks ago.

Not now.

Something obviously did happened, either it wouldn't took them 3 weeks to cover it up.

And Israel did not claim anything.

Come on try to be realistic .. Do you think that if there would be any nuclear material which Israel claimed to have raided and seized

Would it take just 3weeks or more than 3 weeks to hide the traces of that raid but here its about even seizing and destroying nuclear material by Israeli .

Many try to make here Nuclear programme and nuclear material very dangerous things and now cant they even understand its not so easy to hide those things in 3 weeks.

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month.

So where is that seized Nuclear material ?

'IDF seized nuclear materials in Syria'
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1189411460535

[Merchbanks]

Come on try to be realistic .. Do you think that if there would be any nuclear material which Israel claimed to have raided and seized

Would it take just 3weeks or more than 3 weeks to hide the traces of that raid but here its about even seizing and destroying nuclear material by Israeli .

Many try to make here Nuclear programme and nuclear material very dangerous things and now cant they even understand its not so easy to hide those things in 3 weeks.

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month.

So where is that seized Nuclear material ?

'IDF seized nuclear materials in Syria'
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1189411460535

I do not know what happened there, it goes far beyond regular chain of command.

What I do know, is that something did, because it took them 3 weeks to cover it up. There's no reason for it to take so much time if nothing happened.

Israel did not claim anything, no one in the IDF claimed anything for what happened in Syria, so stop saying they did.

[indianguy]

I do not know what happened there, it goes far beyond regular chain of command.

What I do know, is that something did, because it took them 3 weeks to cover it up. There's no reason for it to take so much time if nothing happened.

Israel did not claim anything, no one in the IDF claimed anything for what happened in Syria, so stop saying they did.

Israeli Media have told everything just with the trademark of Western Media.

Soldiers from an elite Israeli unit seized North Korean nuclear material from a secret Syrian military installation before it was bombed by IAF jets, a report by Britain's Sunday Times wrote Saturday night, quoting "informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem."

Even its saying about the commandos who carried out this raid and even seized Nuclear material.

The commandos, who, according to the report, belonged to the legendary General Staff's Reconnaissance Unit (Sayeret Matkal), may have been disguised in Syrian army uniforms. It was also stated that Defense Minister Ehud Barak, who used to head the unit, personally oversaw the operation.

So man where is the seized Nuclear material ?

[Voozio]

Israeli Media have told everything just with the trademark of Western Media.

Soldiers from an elite Israeli unit seized North Korean nuclear material from a secret Syrian military installation before it was bombed by IAF jets, a report by Britain's Sunday Times wrote Saturday night, quoting "informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem."

Even its saying about the commandos who carried out this raid and even seized Nuclear material.

The commandos, who, according to the report, belonged to the legendary General Staff's Reconnaissance Unit (Sayeret Matkal), may have been disguised in Syrian army uniforms. It was also stated that Defense Minister Ehud Barak, who used to head the unit, personally oversaw the operation.

So man where is the seized Nuclear material ?

Israeli media is banned from leaking any info on the raid. Im sure that you know whats a "media blackout" means.
The only info you'll see on the israeli news-sites about this raid is non-official.
Including this report which quoting the Sunday Times and its "mysterious sources".
The fact is... we dunno nothing about this raid, except that this raid took place on Sep, 6. NOTHING.
Now, i am, for example CHOOSE to believe that this raid was connected to a shipment from North Korea. You CHOOSE to believe that nothing was bombed.
But it is what it is. And it doesn't mean that one of us know the truth. For all i know the truth can be much much different from all the speculations and rumours.

[Ya2]

Now all you Russian SAM haters can put a sock in it. :roflmao3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hVexmbnkOk&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eisraeli%2Dweapons%2Ecom%2Fisraeli%5F history%2Ehtml

Do you trust the Syrians ?

[indianguy]

Israeli media is banned from leaking any info on the raid. Im sure that you know whats a "media blackout" means.
The only info you'll see on the israeli news-sites about this raid is non-official.
Including this report which quoting the Sunday Times and its "mysterious sources".
The fact is... we dunno nothing about this raid, except that this raid took place on Sep, 6. NOTHING.
Now, i am, for example CHOOSE to believe that this raid was connected to a shipment from North Korea. You CHOOSE to believe that nothing was bombed.
But it is what it is. And it doesn't mean that one of us know the truth. For all i know the truth can be much much different from all the speculations and rumours.

Here its not about any of that what you beleive or what others beleive regarding this raid by IAF first then raid by Israeli commandos inside Syria

All in all one thing clearly proves Israel's incursions in Syrian airspace and land which is wrong. Was taht wrong ?

Do you still wanna deny that Israel is the violater here and even aggressor ?

[Voozio]

Here its not about any of that what you beleive or what others beleive regarding this raid by IAF first then raid by Israeli commandos inside Syria

All in all one thing clearly proves Israel's incursions in Syrian airspace and land which is wrong. Was taht wrong ?

Do you still wanna deny that Israel is the violater here and even aggressor ?

When said "raid", i ment both air and POSSIBLE ground raid. So yeah. All the info still unofficial.

No, in my opinion it wasn't wrong. But my opinion can change, depends on the objective of this raid, which is still unknown.
And lets not forget that we are still at war with Syria. Yes, since 1973. There was no official peace deal, as you might know. BTW, Assad's regime is based on the "war-time" excuse.
Also, it is not a secret that Syria supplying Hizballah with weapons.
Thus, i dont see anything wrong with violating Syrian airspace, as long as this will not be some childish "show of power" or anything similar, but only when absolutely necessary... Which i BELIEVE was the case here.
I hope i made myself clear.

P.S.: Besides... i thought we were talking about syrians denying any raids and bombings. All of a sudden you believe that there was even a ground raid in which commandos seized nuclear materials. I thought it was you questioning the credibility of this info just the one post earlier, not me. :)

[indianguy]

When said "raid", i ment both air and POSSIBLE ground raid. So yeah. All the info still unofficial.

No, in my opinion it wasn't wrong. But my opinion can change, depends on the objective of this raid, which is still unknown.
And lets not forget that we are still at war with Syria. Yes, since 1973. There was no official peace deal, as you might know. BTW, Assad's regime is based on the "war-time" excuse.
Also, it is not a secret that Syria supplying Hizballah with weapons.
Thus, i dont see anything wrong with violating Syrian airspace, as long as this will not be some childish "show of power" or anything similar, but only when absolutely necessary... Which i BELIEVE was the case here.
I hope i made myself clear.

P.S.: Besides... i thought we were talking about syrians denying any raids and bombings. All of a sudden you believe that there was even a ground raid in which commandos seized nuclear materials. I thought it was you questioning the credibility of this info just the one post earlier, not me. :)

There were 2 raids as per as Israeli/Western Media.. airs and land .. Seems you like to deny even this..

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Gulf%2C+Middle+East+%26+Africa&month=September2007&file=World_News20070924257.xml


As i know there is no official peace between Israel and Syria coz of Golan heights which Israel is still occupying not from 1973 but since 1967 .

Israel began settling the Golan almost immediately following the war. Kibbutz Merom Golan was founded in July 1967. By 1970 there were 12 Jewish settlements on the Golan and in 2004 there were 34 settlements populated by around 18,000 people.

Didnt Israel signed Geneva convention ? so how can Israel construct settlements in occupied land after signing it ?


Are Hizbullah any reason for Israel to not make any peace with Syria ? Golan heights were occupied at 1967 war .. Hizbullah were born after the second occupation of Lebanon by Israel 1982 .

[Voozio]

There were 2 raids as per as Israeli/Western Media.. airs and land .. Seems you like to deny even this..

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Gulf%2C+Middle+East+%26+Africa&month=September2007&file=World_News20070924257.xml


As i know there is no official peace between Israel and Syria coz of Golan heights which Israel is still occupying not from 1973 but since 1967 .

Israel began settling the Golan almost immediately following the war. Kibbutz Merom Golan was founded in July 1967. By 1970 there were 12 Jewish settlements on the Golan and in 2004 there were 34 settlements populated by around 18,000 people.

Didnt Israel signed Geneva convention ? so how can Israel construct settlements in occupied land ?


Are Hizbullah any reason for Israel to not make any peace with Syria ? Golan heights were occupied at 1967 war .. Hizbullah were born after the second occupation of Lebanon by Israel 1982 .


Duh. Im not denying the reports. I just say they are UNOFFICIAL.
More then this... I choose to BELIEVE those reports.
Do you understand the difference between speculation and official information?

Now about the settlements and Geneva convention...
Sorry for a copy+paste, but it was kinda discussed toi death, even on this very forum.
This article pretty much explains Israels position:
Doesn't the Fourth Geneva Convention make Israeli settlements illegal?

The Fourth Geneva Convention on Rules of War was adopted August 12, 1949 by the international community in response to Nazi atrocities during World War II. It was ratified by Israel in 1951. The international treaty governs the treatment of civilians during wartime, including hostages, diplomats, spies, bystanders and civilians in territory under military occupation. The convention outlaws torture, collective punishment and the resettlement by an occupying power of its own civilians on territory under its military control. In the fifty years since its adoption, the Fourth Geneva Convention has never been used to condemn world atrocities including those in Bosnia, Rwanda, Kosovo, Congo, Tibet, and other afflicted places.

Since 1997 the Arab group at the United Nations has been trying to invoke the Fourth Geneva Convention against Israel, in regard to its settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and in particular at Har Homa in Jerusalem. This is a tactic in the on-going Palestinian Arab attempts to undermine the Oslo "Peace Process". Rather than participate in bi-lateral negotiations as agreed in the Oslo Accords and successive documents, it is more satisfactory to the Palestinian Arabs to appeal for international condemnation of Israel.

Israel rejects applying the Fourth Geneva Convention to Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, stating that those territories were captured in 1967 as a result of a defensive war against Jordan and Egypt, countries which had illegally occupied them since 1948. Furthermore, it is Article 49 that is commonly cited to accuse Israel of violating the Fourth Geneva Convention. But a close reading of Article 49 reveals that it prohibits "individual or mass forcible transfers" which are not happening in the territories under Israeli administration. Further, the Occupying Power is obliged not to "deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population" to territories under its control. The use of "deport" and "transfer" indicate that the Convention prohibits the Occupying Power from the active or forcible transfer of its own civilians. Article 49 does not oblige Israel to prevent voluntary settlement by its civilian population just because Arabs don't like it.

It is also interesting to find in the Fourth Geneva Convention, in Art. 3 and elsewhere, prohibitions of murder, violence to life and person, and other acts that are commonly employed by Palestinian Arabs against innocent Israeli civilians. To date no one in the international community has made a formal protest against these Palestinian Arab tactics.

Now it says about Gaza (which we already left) and West bank, but the same applies to Golan Heights.

Now on to Hizballah. Im not making a connection between 1967 war and Hizballah.
All im saying is that Syria arming them (along with Iran), so i dont see anything wrong with violating Syrian airspace or carrying out necessary operations against one enemy which is arming my other enemy.
The point is they are not some poor peacefull nation either.
Hovewer, i do believe they just Iranian puppets, same as Hizballah.

Sitting on our hands never prooved to be usefull. For example for a six years we've been watching Hizballah preparing for a war. And we did nothing. Which prooved to be ineffective, when war broke out.
Same rule applies to Syria and Iran now. Syria, with WHATEVER was the objective of the raid/bombing and of course Iran with its nuclear ambitions.

Sorry for a long answer.

[indianguy]

Duh. Im not denying the reports. I just say they are UNOFFICIAL.
More then this... I choose to BELIEVE those reports.
Do you understand the difference between speculation and official information?

Now about the settlements and Geneva convention...
Sorry for a copy+paste, but it was kinda discussed toi death, even on this very forum.
This article pretty much explains Israels position:
Doesn't the Fourth Geneva Convention make Israeli settlements illegal?

The Fourth Geneva Convention on Rules of War was adopted August 12, 1949 by the international community in response to Nazi atrocities during World War II. It was ratified by Israel in 1951. The international treaty governs the treatment of civilians during wartime, including hostages, diplomats, spies, bystanders and civilians in territory under military occupation. The convention outlaws torture, collective punishment and the resettlement by an occupying power of its own civilians on territory under its military control. In the fifty years since its adoption, the Fourth Geneva Convention has never been used to condemn world atrocities including those in Bosnia, Rwanda, Kosovo, Congo, Tibet, and other afflicted places.

Since 1997 the Arab group at the United Nations has been trying to invoke the Fourth Geneva Convention against Israel, in regard to its settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and in particular at Har Homa in Jerusalem. This is a tactic in the on-going Palestinian Arab attempts to undermine the Oslo "Peace Process". Rather than participate in bi-lateral negotiations as agreed in the Oslo Accords and successive documents, it is more satisfactory to the Palestinian Arabs to appeal for international condemnation of Israel.

Israel rejects applying the Fourth Geneva Convention to Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, stating that those territories were captured in 1967 as a result of a defensive war against Jordan and Egypt, countries which had illegally occupied them since 1948. Furthermore, it is Article 49 that is commonly cited to accuse Israel of violating the Fourth Geneva Convention. But a close reading of Article 49 reveals that it prohibits "individual or mass forcible transfers" which are not happening in the territories under Israeli administration. Further, the Occupying Power is obliged not to "deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population" to territories under its control. The use of "deport" and "transfer" indicate that the Convention prohibits the Occupying Power from the active or forcible transfer of its own civilians. Article 49 does not oblige Israel to prevent voluntary settlement by its civilian population just because Arabs don't like it.

It is also interesting to find in the Fourth Geneva Convention, in Art. 3 and elsewhere, prohibitions of murder, violence to life and person, and other acts that are commonly employed by Palestinian Arabs against innocent Israeli civilians. To date no one in the international community has made a formal protest against these Palestinian Arab tactics.

Now it says about Gaza (which we already left) and West bank, but the same applies to Golan Heights.

Now on to Hizballah. Im not making a connection between 1967 war and Hizballah.
All im saying is that Syria arming them (along with Iran), so i dont see anything wrong with violating Syrian airspace or carrying out necessary operations against one enemy which is arming my other enemy.
The point is they are not some poor peacefull nation either.
Hovewer, i do believe they just Iranian puppets, same as Hizballah.

Sitting on our hands never prooved to be usefull. For example for a six years we've been watching Hizballah preparing for a war. And we did nothing. Which prooved to be ineffective, when war broke out.
Same rule applies to Syria and Iran now. Syria, with WHATEVER was the objective of the raid/bombing and of course Iran with its nuclear ambitions.

Sorry for a long answer.

If Egypt and Jordan would not have intervened then even West Bank and Gaza would not have any Palestinians left .All would fled into neighbouring countries.

Palestinians were never having any powerful army to defend themselves against Haganah,Irgun and Lehi.

Annexe 1: Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention
Declaration
Geneva, 5 December 2001

1. This Declaration reflects the common understanding reached by the participating High Contracting Parties to the reconvened Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention. The Conference of 15 July 1999, recommended by United Nations’ General Assembly Resolution ES-10/6 in an Emergency Special Session, issued a statement as follows :


“…The participating High Contracting Parties reaffirmed the applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem. Furthermore, they reiterated the need for full respect for the provisions of the said Convention in that Territory. Taking into consideration the improved atmosphere in the Middle East as a whole, the Conference was adjourned on the understanding that it will convene again in the light of consultations on the development of the humanitarian situation in the field.”

2. The participating High Contracting Parties express deep concern about the deterioration of the humanitarian situation in the field. They deplore the great number of civilian victims, in particular children and other vulnerable groups, due to indiscriminate or disproportionate use of force and due to lack of respect for international humanitarian law.

3. Taking into account art. 1 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 and bearing in mind the United Nations’ General Assembly Resolution ES-10/7, the participating High Contracting Parties reaffirm the applicability of the Convention to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem and reiterate the need for full respect for the provisions of the said Convention in that Territory. Through the present Declaration, they recall in particular the respective obligations under the Convention of all High Contracting Parties (para 4-7), of the parties to the conflict (para 8-11) and of the State of Israel as the Occupying Power (para 12-15).

4. The participating High Contracting Parties call upon all parties, directly involved in the conflict or not, to respect and to ensure respect for the Geneva Conventions in all circumstances, to disseminate and take measures necessary for the prevention and suppression of breaches of the Conventions. They reaffirm the obligations of the High Contracting Parties under articles 146, 147 and 148 of the Fourth Geneva Convention with regard to penal sanctions, grave breaches and responsibilities of the High Contracting Parties.

5. The participating High Contracting Parties stress that the Fourth Geneva Convention, which takes fully into account imperative military necessity, has to be respected in all circumstances.

6. The participating High Contracting Parties see the need to recall basic humanitarian rules with regard to persons taking no active part in the hostilities, which shall be treated humanely without any discrimination, and to recall the prohibition at any time and in any place whatsoever of acts of violence to life and person, torture, outrages upon personal dignity and of arbitrary or extra-judiciary executions.

7. The participating High Contracting Parties express their support for the endeavours of the humanitarian relief societies in the field in ensuring that the wounded and sick receive assistance, and for the activities of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the United Nations Relief and Works Agency in the Near East (UNRWA) and of other impartial humanitarian organisations. They also express their support for the efforts of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights and of UN Special Rapporteurs in order to assess the situation in the field and they take note of the reports and recommandations of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (E/CN/4/2001/114) and of the Commission of Inquiry (E/CN/4/2001/121).

8. The participating High Contracting Parties call upon the parties to the conflict to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects and to distinguish at all times between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives. They also call upon the parties to abstain from any measures of brutality and violence against the civilian population whether applied by civilian or military agents and to abstain from exposing the civilian population to military operations.

9. The participating High Contracting Parties call upon the parties to the conflict to respect and to protect at all times the fixed establishments and mobile medical units of the Medical Services and to facilitate the operations of the humanitarian relief societies in the field, including the free passage of their ambulances and medical personnel, and to guarantee their protection.

10. The participating High Contracting Parties call upon the parties to the conflict to facilitate the activities of the ICRC, within its particular role conferred upon it by the Geneva Conventions, the UNRWA and of other impartial humanitarian organisations. They recognise and support their efforts to assess and to improve the humanitarian situation in the field. They invite the parties to the conflict to co-operate with independent and impartial observers such as the Temporary International Presence in the City of Hebron (TIPH).

11. The participating High Contracting Parties call upon the parties to the conflict to consider anew suggestions made at the meeting of experts of High Contracting Parties in 1998 to resolve problems of implementation of the Fourth Geneva Convention and to respect and to ensure respect in all circumstances for the rules of international humanitarian law and to co-operate within the framework of direct contacts, including procedures of inquiry and of conciliation. They encourage any arrangements and agreements supported by the parties to the conflict on the deployment of independent and impartial observers to monitor, inter alia, breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention as a protection and confidence building measure, with the aim to ensure effectiveness of humanitarian rules.

12. The participating High Contracting Parties call upon the Occupying Power to fully and effectively respect the Fourth Geneva Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and to refrain from perpetrating any violation of the Convention. They reaffirm the illegality of the settlements in the said territories and of the extension thereof. They recall the need to safeguard and guarantee the rights and access of all in-habitants to the Holy Places.

13. The participating High Contracting Parties call upon the Occupying Power to immediately refrain from committing grave breaches involving any of the acts mentioned in art. 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, such as wilful killing, torture, unlawful deportation, wilful depriving of the rights of fair and regular trial, extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly. The participating High Contracting Parties recall that according to art. 148 no High Contracting Party shall be allowed to absolve itself of any liability incurred by itself in respect to grave breaches. The participating High Contracting Parties also recall the responsibilities of the Occupying Power according to art. 29 of the Fourth Geneva Convention for the treatment of protected persons.

14. The participating High Contracting Parties also call upon the Occupying Power to refrain from perpetrating any other violation of the Convention, in particular reprisals against protected persons and their property, collective penalties, unjustified restrictions of free movement, and to treat the protected persons humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

15. The participating High Contracting Parties call upon the Occupying Power to facilitate the relief operations and free passage of the ICRC, UNRWA, as well as any other impartial humanitarian organisation, to guarantee their protection and, where applicable, to refrain from levying taxes and imposing undue financial burdens on these organisations.

16. The participating High Contracting Parties stress that respect for the Fourth Geneva Convention and international humanitarian law in general is essential to improve the humanitarian situation in the field and to achieve a just and lasting peace. The participating High Contracting Parties invite the parties concerned to bring the conflict to an end by means of negotiation and to settle their disputes in accordance with applicable international law.

17. The participating High Contracting Parties welcome and encourage the initiatives by States Parties, both individually and collectively, according to art. 1 of the Convention and aimed at ensuring the respect of the Convention, and they underline the need for the Parties, to follow up on the implementation of the present Declaration.

18. The participating High Contracting Parties express their gratitude to the Depositary of the Fourth Geneva Convention for its good services and

Annexe 2 - Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention: statement by the International Committee of the Red Cross
Geneva, 5 December 2001

1. Pursuant to the relevant provisions of international humanitarian law and to the mandate conferred on it by the States party to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) established a permanent presence in Israel, the neighbouring Arab countries and the occupied territories in 1967 with a view to carrying out its humanitarian tasks in the region and to working for the faithful application of international humanitarian law.

2. In accordance with a number of resolutions adopted by the United Nations General Assembly and Security Council and by the International Conference of the Red Cross and Red Crescent, which reflect the view of the international community, the ICRC has always affirmed the de jure applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to the territories occupied since 1967 by the State of Israel, including East Jerusalem. This Convention, ratified by Israel in 1951, remains fully applicable and relevant in the current context of violence. As an Occupying Power, Israel is also bound by other customary rules relating to occupation, expressed in the Regulations annexed to the Hague Convention respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land of 18 October 1907.
3. In general terms, the Fourth Geneva Convention protects the civilian population of occupied territories against abuses on the part of an Occupying Power, in particular by ensuring that it is not discriminated against, that it is protected against all forms of violence, and that despite occupation and war it is allowed to live as normal a life as possible, in accordance with its own laws, culture and traditions. While humanitarian law confers certain rights on the Occupying Power, it also imposes limits on the scope of its powers. Being only a temporary administrator of occupied territory, the Occupying Power must not interfere with its original economic and social structures, organization, legal system or demography. It must ensure the protection, security and welfare of the population living under occupation. This also implies allowing the normal development of the territory, if the occupation lasts for a prolonged period of time.

4. More precisely, the Fourth Geneva Convention sets out rules aimed at safeguarding the dignity and physical integrity of persons living under occupation, including detainees. It prohibits all forms of physical and mental ill-treatment and coercion, collective punishment, and reprisals against protected persons or property. It also prohibits the transfer of parts of the Occupying Power’s civilian population into the occupied territory, forcible transfer or deportation of protected persons from the occupied territory, and destruction of real or personal property, except when such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.

5. In the course of its activities in the territories occupied by Israel, the ICRC has repeatedly noted breaches of various provisions of international humanitarian law, such as the transfer by Israel of parts of its population into the occupied territories, the destruction of houses, failure to respect medical activities, and detention of protected persons outside the occupied territories. Certain practices which contravene the Fourth Geneva Convention have been incorporated into laws and administrative guidelines and have been sanctioned by the highest judicial authorities. While acknowledging the facilities it has been granted for the conduct of its humanitarian tasks, the ICRC has regularly drawn the attention of the Israeli authorities to the suffering and the heavy burden borne by the Palestinian population owing to the occupation policy and, in line with its standard practice, has increasingly expressed its concern through bilateral and multilateral representations and in public appeals. In particular, the ICRC has expressed growing concern about the consequences in humanitarian terms of the establishment of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The settlement policy has often meant the destruction of Palestinian homes, the confiscation of land and water resources and the parcelling out of the territories. Measures taken to extend the settlements and to protect the settlers, entailing the destruction of houses, land requisitions, the sealing-off of areas, roadblocks and the imposition of long curfews, have also seriously hindered the daily life of the Palestinian population. However, the fact that settlements have been established in violation of the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention does not mean that civilians residing in those settlements can be the object of attack. They are protected by humanitarian law as civilians as long as they do not take an active part in fighting.

6. The ICRC has also drawn the attention of the Israeli authorities to the effects of prolonged curfews and the sealing-off of certain areas by the Israel Defense Forces. The resulting restrictions on movements have disastrous consequences for the entire Palestinian population. They hamper the activities of emergency medical services as well as access to health care, workplaces, schools and places of worship, and have a devastating effect on the economy. They also prevent, for months on end, Palestinian families from visiting relatives detained in Israel. The concern caused by these practices has grown considerably during the past 14 months as measures taken to contain the upsurge of violence have led to a further deterioration in the living conditions of the population under occupation.

7. The ICRC has reminded all those taking part in the violence that whenever armed force is used the choice of means and methods employed is not unlimited. Today, in view of the sharp increase in armed confrontations, the ICRC has to stress that Palestinian armed groups operating within or outside the occupied territories are also bound by the principles of international humanitarian law. Apart from the Fourth Geneva Convention, which relates to the protection of the civilian population, there are other universally accepted rules and principles of international humanitarian law that deal with the conduct of military operations. They stipulate in particular that only military objectives may be attacked. Thus indiscriminate attacks, such as bomb attacks by Palestinian individuals or armed groups against Israeli civilians, and acts intended to spread terror among the civilian population are absolutely and unconditionally prohibited. The same applies to targeted attacks on and the killing of Palestinian individuals by the Israeli authorities while those individuals are not directly taking part in the hostilities or immediately endangering human life. Reprisals against civilians and their property are also prohibited. When a military objective is targeted, all feasible precautions must be taken to minimize civilian casualties and damage to civilian property. To avoid endangering the civilian population, those bearing weapons and those taking part in armed violence must distinguish themselves from civilians.

8. Demonstrations against the occupying forces by the civilian population under occupation or stand-offs between them are not acts of war. They should therefore not be dealt with by military methods and means. When faced with the civilian population, Israeli forces must exercise restraint : any use of force must be proportionate, all necessary precautions must be taken to avoid casualties, and the lethal use of firearms must be strictly limited to what is unavoidable as an immediate measure to protect life.

9. Access to emergency medical services for all those in need is also of paramount importance in the current situation. Such access must not be unduly delayed or denied. Ambulances and medical personnel must be allowed to move about unharmed and must not be prevented from discharging their medical duties. All those taking part in the violence must respect and assist the medical services, whether deployed by the armed forces, civilian organizations, the Palestine Red Crescent Society, the Magen David Adom, the ICRC, the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies or other humanitarian organizations.

10. Article 1 common to the four Geneva Conventions stipulates that the “High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and ensure respect for the present Convention in all circumstances”. This conference is to be viewed within that context. The ICRC has always welcomed all individual and joint efforts made by States party to the Geneva Conventions to fulfil this obligation and ensure respect for international humanitarian law. These efforts are all the more vital as violations of humanitarian law are far too common around the globe.

11. The means used to meet these legal and political responsibilities are naturally a matter to be decided upon by States. Whatever the means chosen, however, the ICRC wishes to emphasize that any action States may decide to take at international level must be aimed at achieving practical results and at ensuring application of and compliance with international humanitarian law, in the interests of the protected population.

12. Beyond all legal considerations and in view of the current humanitarian situation, the ICRC again calls upon all parties concerned to make every possible effort to spare civilian lives and preserve a measure of humanity.

13. For its part, the ICRC will continue to do its utmost to assist and protect all victims in accordance with its mandate and with the principles of neutrality, impartiality and independence which govern its humanitarian work. It counts on the full support of the parties concerned in promoting compliance with the humanitarian rules and facilitating humanitarian activities, which may also help pave the way towards the establishment of peace between all peoples and nations in the region.

14. The steady deterioration of the humanitarian situation over the last few months and, in particular, the tragic events of the past few days have highlighted the need to break the spiral of violence and restore respect for international humanitarian law.

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList325/D86C9E662022D64E41256C6800366D55

If here you want Israel not to accept 4th Geneva Convention even when there was a resolution passed in UN against Israel,Then its clearly shows taht Israel is violating UN resolutions .

[Voozio]

If Egypt and Jordan would not have intervened then even West Bank and Gaza would not have any Palestinians left .All would fled into neighbouring countries.

Palestinians were never having any powerful army to defend themselves against Haganah,Irgun and Lehi.

2. In accordance with a number of resolutions adopted by the United Nations General Assembly and Security Council and by the International Conference of the Red Cross and Red Crescent, which reflect the view of the international community, the ICRC has always affirmed the de jure applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to the territories occupied since 1967 by the State of Israel, including East Jerusalem. This Convention, ratified by Israel in 1951, remains fully applicable and relevant in the current context of violence. As an Occupying Power, Israel is also bound by other customary rules relating to occupation, expressed in the Regulations annexed to the Hague Convention respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land of 18 October 1907.
http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList325/D86C9E662022D64E41256C6800366D55



If you'd read carefully what i posted then you'd see, that what you just posted, is already answered. Ill try again:

Since 1997 the Arab group at the United Nations has been trying to invoke the Fourth Geneva Convention against Israel, in regard to its settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and in particular at Har Homa in Jerusalem. This is a tactic in the on-going Palestinian Arab attempts to undermine the Oslo "Peace Process". Rather than participate in bi-lateral negotiations as agreed in the Oslo Accords and successive documents, it is more satisfactory to the Palestinian Arabs to appeal for international condemnation of Israel.

Israel rejects applying the Fourth Geneva Convention to Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, stating that those territories were captured in 1967 as a result of a defensive war against Jordan and Egypt, countries which had illegally occupied them since 1948. Furthermore, it is Article 49 that is commonly cited to accuse Israel of violating the Fourth Geneva Convention. But a close reading of Article 49 reveals that it prohibits "individual or mass forcible transfers" which are not happening in the territories under Israeli administration. Further, the Occupying Power is obliged not to "deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population" to territories under its control. The use of "deport" and "transfer" indicate that the Convention prohibits the Occupying Power from the active or forcible transfer of its own civilians. Article 49 does not oblige Israel to prevent voluntary settlement by its civilian population just because Arabs don't like it.

If here you want Israel not to accept 4th Geneva Convention even when there was a resolution passed in UN against Israel,Then its clearly shows taht Israel is violating UN resolutions.

There is a difference between signing the Geneva convention and accepting countless anti-israeli UN resolutions.
We kinda think most of them is one-sided.
Just like the UN Human Rights Council: Chairman: UN unbalanced towards Israel. (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3454537,00.html)

[indianguy]

Israel not just signed it even have ratifited it.

Signature 08.12.1949
Ratification / Accession 06.07.1951

Come on man now dont say that UN is bais towards Israel .

UN = International community.

This international community only have putted sanctions on Iran ,coz Israel was asking International community to unite against Iran . Was that time UN was bais towards Israel ?

[Voozio]

Israel not just signed it even have ratifited it.

Signature 08.12.1949
Ratification / Accession 06.07.1951

Come on man now dont say that UN is bais towards Israel .

UN = International community.

This international community only have putted sanctions on Iran ,coz Israel was asking International community to unite against Iran . Was that time UN was bais towards Israel ?

You are simplifying things. The possible sanctions on Iran is the decision made by the five permanent UN Security Council members and Germany. Not the UN as some kind of the world court. Which is nonsense.

Now about the bias...
Yes, we see the countless anti-israel resolutions as one-sided. Heres a nice list to give you the idea of why we might get this impression:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

[indianguy]

You are simplifying things. The possible sanctions on Iran is the decision made by the five permanent UN Security Council members and Germany. Not the UN as some kind of the world court. Which is nonsense.

Now about the bias...
Yes, we see the countless anti-israel resolutions as one-sided. Heres a nice list to give you the idea of why we might get this impression:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

Recently speaking at UN , President Sarkozy talked about making UN more powerful and here you want to say that UN is bais .

There was one more resolution which was passed at IAEA recently to make MIDDLE EAST NUCLEAR WEAPONS FREE ZONE and even voting was held .

53 nations voted in favour (The sole EU nation to vote for Thursday's resolution was staunchly anti-nuclear Ireland. China, India, Russia, Japan, Latin American and some African nations also voted yes.)

2 nations voted against it ( Israel and USA )

47 nations abstain and didnt cast any vote ( All European countries )

A similar resolution urging all Middle East nations to adopt IAEA safeguards on nuclear work passed overwhelmingly at last year's IAEA general assembly, with only Israel and top ally the United States opposed, as they were again this year too.


One clause urged all nations in the Middle East, pending creation of a nuclear weapons-free zone (NWFZ) there, not to make or test nuclear arms or let them be deployed on their soil. The other urged big nuclear arms powers not to foil such a step.

So here also do u think that again its unfair with Israel ?

[IR.IRAN]

IR.Iran,

Why? What makes these Syrians so truthful? How do we even know that this was the site that was attacked, assuming there was an attack? It's been three weeks. More than enough time to bulldoze any craters, remove any rubble, and tidy the place up to look like a nice, calm, potemkin village.

syria denied the charges from the begining, and yes, they might have done that, but i trust them more than israel, seeing as israel is well known for its lies

[Merchbanks]

Assad confirmed today that Israel DID Attacked, in an interview to the BBC.

It atlist prooves that the IDF can hammer the Syrian AA system.

[Iranian Guards]

Assad confirmed today that Israel DID Attacked, in an interview to the BBC.

It atlist prooves that the IDF can hammer the Syrian AA system. source...???

[Voozio]

source...???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7021986.stm

The second half of the article.

[indianguy]

Mr Assad also spoke about an Israeli air raid on northern Syria early in September which he said showed Israel's "visceral antipathy towards peace".

He said Syria reserved the right to respond to the attack - which he said targeted an unused military building - although he did not specify what that response should be.

"Retaliate doesn't mean missile for missile and bomb for bomb. We have our means to retaliate, maybe politically, maybe in other ways. But we have the right to retaliate," he said.

[IR.IRAN]

Mr Assad also spoke about an Israeli air raid on northern Syria early in September which he said showed Israel's "visceral antipathy towards peace".

He said Syria reserved the right to respond to the attack - which he said targeted an unused military building - although he did not specify what that response should be.

"Retaliate doesn't mean missile for missile and bomb for bomb. We have our means to retaliate, maybe politically, maybe in other ways. But we have the right to retaliate," he said.

hm.. i doubt it will be a direct strike, so maybe arming militias moreso against israel?

[KMS_Tripitz]

Sep 30, 2007 15:25 | Updated Sep 30, 2007 16:20
Officials in Syrian site deny attack; invite press to visit

"The Arab Center for the Studies of Arid Zones and Dry Lands" in Syria called the claims of an Israeli strike "lies and fabrications", AFP reported on Sunday.

Center officials denied the reports and said that after they had seen pictures of the center in newspapers, they realized that the alleged strike was supposedly carried our in one of their abandoned sites.

An official message by the center read: "We were astonished by reports of an Israeli strike on one of our centers. The reports about the center in the Zionist press are lies and fabrications."

The center also offered journalists from around the world a tour of the location.

Two weeks ago, Syrian Ambassador to the United Nations Bashar Ja'afari said that nothing in Syria was bombed by the IAF, and nothing was damaged. Reports of such an attack were "ridiculous and not true," Army Radio reported Ja'afari as saying. Ja'afari added that "Syria does not have North Korean nuclear facilities."

The Washington Post reported that the US had been gathering evidence, mainly from Israel, over the past six months that North Korea had been cooperating with Syria on a nuclear facility. This evidence - codenamed 'Orchard' - was said to include "dramatic satellite imagery that led some US officials to believe that the facility could be used to produce material for nuclear weapons."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411514513&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Hahahaha. I just laugh at these old threads and now how they prove how the Syrians lied through there teeth.

The Syrians denied the Isreal's did any attack. They even said Isreali planes droped fule tanks and not bombs while they fleed from Syrian air defences. :roflmao3:

A few weeks later Syria admitted yes the Isreali' did bomb a target. "Empty warehouse". Only becuase the US provided pictures of the destroyed target. Caught lying again.

Now the US provides picture of the nuclear reactor under construction, as well as the building which hold its, pumping stations, pipes oh and it just so happens this warehouse is nearly identicle in design and shape to north koreas nuclear plant.

To top it off the head of both Syrias and north koreas nuclear programs were photographed at the site bombed.

It just makes me laugh that Syria has been cuaght lying so many times now and now they have been caught red handed. I bet they thought the US would never release pictures from inside there own "secret facility".

As it turns out the US has had a syp in that consturction site since 2001 and the US was aware of north korean and syrian collaberation since as far back as 1997. It is a deliberate long term program to try and build a nuclear weapons program.

Out of interest in the IAEA has already stated that if they can prove it was a nuclear sight Syria is in breach of the NPT which could bring about UN sanctions similar to Irans.

Good to see Syria has been found out to be lying mulitple times and embarrassed on the world stage. To all the people who posted in this thread in support of Syria you have been duped and also embarrassed. You could not see the truth if it hit you in the face you are that blinded.

[mig21bis]

Question....why doesnt then USA and Israel give rock solid proofs to IAEA that it can study these nuclear claims ?

[indianguy]

Hahahaha. I just laugh at these old threads and now how they prove how the Syrians lied through there teeth.

The Syrians denied the Isreal's did any attack. They even said Isreali planes droped fule tanks and not bombs while they fleed from Syrian air defences. :roflmao3:

A few weeks later Syria admitted yes the Isreali' did bomb a target. "Empty warehouse". Only becuase the US provided pictures of the destroyed target. Caught lying again.

Now the US provides picture of the nuclear reactor under construction, as well as the building which hold its, pumping stations, pipes oh and it just so happens this warehouse is nearly identicle in design and shape to north koreas nuclear plant.

To top it off the head of both Syrias and north koreas nuclear programs were photographed at the site bombed.

It just makes me laugh that Syria has been cuaght lying so many times now and now they have been caught red handed. I bet they thought the US would never release pictures from inside there own "secret facility".

As it turns out the US has had a syp in that consturction site since 2001 and the US was aware of north korean and syrian collaberation since as far back as 1997. It is a deliberate long term program to try and build a nuclear weapons program.

Out of interest in the IAEA has already stated that if they can prove it was a nuclear sight Syria is in breach of the NPT which could bring about UN sanctions similar to Irans.

Good to see Syria has been found out to be lying mulitple times and embarrassed on the world stage. To all the people who posted in this thread in support of Syria you have been duped and also embarrassed. You could not see the truth if it hit you in the face you are that blinded.

See the Source .... www.jpost.com

NPT members cant be attacked by non NPT Members ..

IAEA has been criticized by majority of its members states coz of such attacks on a NPT signatory country by a non NPT member .