Hizbullah’s Anti-Merkava Missiles

[MrWanted]

When Israel’s Absolute Power Empowers Hizbullah Absolutely: Part Five: Hizbullah’s Anti-Merkava Missiles

By Ali Al-Hail

Al-Jazeerah, August 10, 2006



The turning point in the war between Hizbullah and Israel since July 12th has certainly, been Hizbullah’s anti tank missiles. The supposedly, fourth generation of Israeli most advanced tank ‘Merkava’, has since Israel began its ground offensive on July 19th, been significantly, deactivated.

By using Russian-made Metis-M and European-made Milan anti-tank missiles by Hizbullah, according to reports more than 40 Merkava tanks had been destroyed, including killing or injuring their crews. The AP (AP, Saturday August 5), was reported to have circulated that, during two days only, Thursday August 3rd and Wednesday August 2nd , Hizbullah fighters had fired anti-tank missiles at three Merkava tanks. They were immediately, pierced and 7 soldiers of its squads had been, killed.

According to the Israeli Army, quoted by the AP (August 5th ) The Israeli-made Merkava tanks — mountains of steel that, are vaunted as symbols of Israel's military might. Despite this reputation, Hizbullah’s anti-tank missiles, according to reliable sources destroy routinely, an average of two Merkava tanks, on a daily basis.

This advanced progress by Hizbullah’s fighters, has succeeded, on one hand in restricting Israel within a maximum of 5 miles horizontally, inside the Lebanese borders. While on the other, had hindered Israel to reach South of the Litani River (18 miles from Israeli Lebanese borders). Israel has since July 19th been marketing to its people that, its army has controlled Bint Jbail, a two mile village from the borders.

Today, August 10th, it’s still talking about fierce and ferocious fighting with Hizbullah’s fighters, at Dibil village on the suburb of Bint Jbail. This resistance has made possible because of Hizbullah’s well made use of its anti-tank missiles.

Speculations and rumors began to spread about that, Hizbullah has over the past two years, been modifying the Metis-M and Milan anti-tank missiles. Though, these theories and anecdotes aren’t groundless, knowing Hizbullah’s aspirations to improving its military skills, they have not been officially, confirmed by Hizbullah.

Field reports from the AP and Jane’s Defense Weekly suggest that, most of the estimated 75 Israeli soldiers, including the elite troops from the Golani brigade were killed in their Merkava tanks by Hizbullah’s sophisticated missiles. Hizbullah’s tactics in utilizing the Metis and Milan anti-tank missiles, has answered the query as to why Israel had to delay its ground offensive.

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2006%20Opinion%20Editorials/August/10%20o/When%20Israels%20Absolute%20Power%20Empowers%20Hizbullah%20A bsolutely%20Part%20Five%20Hizbullahs%20AntiMerkava%20Missile s%20By%20Ali%20AlHail.htm

[Soroush]

I guess I could start off from here, it is noticeably that one of the most powerfull ATGM in hezbollah's arsenal is the Kornet-E with HE warhead and 950mm penetration. I know they have the Metis-M but I never heard of the Milan in their inventory, very surprising indeed. Toofan-1 can penetrae through 550-650mm of armour while Toofan-2 can do up to 760mm with tandem warhead. Toofan-3 is new and just entered service and probably in hizbullah hands already, not alot of reports about it but it's double the size of Toofan-2 and probably the same capability as the kornets as warhead to penetrate the same amount of armour.

http://i1.tinypic.com/241nzg6.jpg


Toofan-3
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/68/atgm4qo.jpg

[Ayyash]

well, the 'Milan' is pretty old, is it not?

[4X-IL]

well, calling Merkava MK2 who entered to service in the 80's the most advanced tank is pretty stupid.

But WHY does the IDF DOESN'T send its best tanks to Lebanon, this is the question.

[Shahab-3]

But WHY does the IDF DOESN'T send its best tanks to Lebanon, this is the question.

Perhaps saving them for Syria?:confused: ;)

[4X-IL]

Perhaps saving them for Syria?:confused: ;)


But if you knew the IDF you would know that the first, and the msot important thing in the IDF is to do the best to bring all soldiers back to Israel, alive, and if not alive, their boddies is the same, and have to come back.

the fact is that the IDF doesn't send its best equipment to Lebanon, is very wired, and doesn't fit to the combat rules and believes of the IDF.

[Aggresive]

How did the Israilis get the explosive reactive armour that was developt by russia during the cold war for their armoured forces

[Aggresive]

well, the 'Milan' is pretty old, is it not?

Yeah it is but besides the Milan the best thing france would have is probably the american TOW missile or the HOT missile

[Tbagger]

4X-IL, how many Merkavas (all models) does the IDF have?

@Mig, isn't that the Iranian version of the TOW?

[kryp]

Tbagger , you should not know this.
we have a lot of them, too many :P

[4X-IL]

4X-IL, how many Merkavas (all models) does the IDF have?

@Mig, isn't that the Iranian version of the TOW?


probably between 3500-4000+-

most of them are upgraded Merkava MK3, but even those aren't beeing sent to Lebanon.

I know there're Merkava MK4 on the border, but they didn't enter Lebanon.

[kryp]

4000+ . that's what i can say.

[Tbagger]

4000+ . that's what i can say.
And how many of these are the newer Mk 4 versions?

[4X-IL]

And how many of these are the newer Mk 4 versions?

In the beginning the goal was 400, after that they expanded the deal, and I dunno to how much, but there're a lot of people who upset from it,

[kryp]

4X, we have more then 400 MK4
we have a lot of MK3 with a lot of upgrades which makes the MK3 like the MK4.
we have the tech to built MK4 and the price will be like MK3

when we will buy the israeli TROPHY SYSTEM, even 200000000 KORNETS could not hit MK2 (the MK4 can handle KORNET without active defence)

[4X-IL]

The problem is that the IDF high command is in 1 word STUPID.

They don't understand how important those things are, and just thinks its a waste of money.

Amir Peretz is the only one that actually starting to realize that and now showing interest in the TROPHY, SkyGuard, and more.

[Yoni45]

The problem is that the IDF high command is in 1 word STUPID.

They don't understand how important those things are, and just thinks its a waste of money.

Amir Peretz is the only one that actually starting to realize that and now showing interest in the TROPHY, SkyGuard, and more.

Bah, wasn't trophy indigenously made? Weren't they testing it USING merkava tanks? Why HASN'T it been installed already? =/

(if anything, using it in this conflict would probably have skyrocketed their sales...)

[4X-IL]

Bah, wasn't trophy indigenously made? Weren't they testing it USING merkava tanks? Why HASN'T it been installed already? =/

(if anything, using it in this conflict would probably have skyrocketed their sales...)


Didn't I mentiouned how stupid the high commander is?

Well, they are all people from the previous generation so you can't really blame them.
they served in six days war and Yum Kippur and only knows tank vs tank style.

And yes the trophy WAS tested on Merkava tank and had 100% success in all tests, in Israel and in the US.

[Yoni45]

Didn't I mentiouned how stupid the high commander is?

Well, they are all people from the previous generation so you can't really blame them.
they served in six days war and Yum Kippur and only knows tank vs tank style.

And yes the trophy WAS tested on Merkava tank and had 100% success in all tests, in Israel and in the US.

Sigh, I would the think vets would be ones that can be counted on... Well, what can I say, live and learn... This would have been the perfect battlefield test of the trophy system though... perhaps there's some other reasons we don't know, not enough time to install, not enough systems ready to be installed in considerable numbers...

[Eagle127]

4x-IL,check your private messages.

[Tbagger]

And yes the trophy WAS tested on Merkava tank and had 100% success in all tests, in Israel and in the US.
So why haven't the IDF deploy the Trophy in Lebanon yet?

[Tbagger]

when we will buy the israeli TROPHY SYSTEM, even 200000000 KORNETS could not hit MK2 (the MK4 can handle KORNET without active defence)
No system is flawless, and ATGMs like the AT-14 and TOW can destroy any tank with rear, flank or top shots. :cool:

Oh yeah, I love the 60mm mortar installed in the Merkava used to engage enemy ATGM teams. :)

[kryp]

The TROPHY defende all of the tank, 360.

[Soroush]

4X-IL, how many Merkavas (all models) does the IDF have?

@Mig, isn't that the Iranian version of the TOW?

yes, but with modifications.

[Ayyash]

How did the Israilis get the explosive reactive armour that was developt by russia during the cold war for their armoured forces

I THINK they found it on syrian tanks and then started making it themselves.

also: ???????TROPHY????????

[Ayyash]

well, calling Merkava MK2 who entered to service in the 80's the most advanced tank is pretty stupid.

But WHY does the IDF DOESN'T send its best tanks to Lebanon, this is the question.
They probably thought that it would be a cakewalk and, 'why waste 'em'

[kryp]

Ayyash -
trophy - advance active protaction against ATGM, made by RAFAEL in israel.
the TROPHY can give the tank 100% protaction against ATGM, and the system is useful against few missile in the same time.

why we dont use it ? we put the money on other things.

BTW
when hizoballha hit our MERKAVA 3, its not destroyed, and no solider is killed.
when they attack our MERKAVA 2 with 2-4 KORNET, than the damage is big and soliders injurd or die.

[MrWanted]

Ayyash -
trophy - advance active protaction against ATGM, made by RAFAEL in israel.
the TROPHY can give the tank 100% protaction against ATGM, and the system is useful against few missile in the same time.

why we dont use it ? we put the money on other things.

BTW
when hizoballha hit our MERKAVA 3, its not destroyed, and no solider is killed.
when they attack our MERKAVA 2 with 2-4 KORNET, than the damage is big and soliders injurd or die.

Yeah sure, IDF just didn't make it's objectieves because of a handfull MBT which were disables after dozens of KORNET.

Wake up man. Deniale when the world is speaking about how your MBT are getting hit which has moved your government to set your soldiers on their feet in order to prevent them from cooking?

Jeez...

[4X-IL]

Yeah sure, IDF just didn't make it's objectieves because of a handfull MBT which were disables after dozens of KORNET.

Wake up man. Deniale when the world is speaking about how your MBT are getting hit which has moved your government to set your soldiers on their feet in order to prevent them from cooking?

Jeez...


We're not denying anything, just facing facts.

[Alex]

what is the best iranian made atgm and how many mm of armour can penetrate through?

[Tbagger]

The TROPHY defende all of the tank, 360.
Its still not flawless, is it? How would that system deal with supersonic, top-attack missiles?

[Yoni45]

Its still not flawless, is it? How would that system deal with supersonic, top-attack missiles?

In a similar fashion I believe, but it's against personnel-fired rockets...

[4X-IL]

Its still not flawless, is it? How would that system deal with supersonic, top-attack missiles?


there's no such thing as flawless.

but as for now, with over 200 ATGM tests done againts the system mounted on armored vehicles, againts all the types that might be dangerous, the system didn't screwd up once, and still have 100% success in all tests.

[masterfx]

recently israel found a chinese made HQ-8 ATM.....

כמה ישראלי כאן בזה פורום?

[Tbagger]

there's no such thing as flawless.

but as for now, with over 200 ATGM tests done againts the system mounted on armored vehicles, againts all the types that might be dangerous, the system didn't screwd up once, and still have 100% success in all tests.
I know no systems are flawless, kryp was saying as if it was.

It's a wonderful system. Do you know if the US Army will purchase any?

[4X-IL]

I know no systems are flawless, kryp was saying as if it was.

It's a wonderful system. Do you know if the US Army will purchase any?


The US army is the main, and actually the only one besides the Israeli army that checking this system seriously.

hundreds of tests was done in the US on Strykers and other armored vehicles that serves in Iraq, LIVE tests, while RAFAEL man INSIDE the armored vehicle, beeing SHOT AT while the system is on, and yet, the system didn't screwd up, and have 100% success.

This dude is trusting this system so much that he put his lives in " risk " dozens of times, and he's the leader of the Trophy project.

[PersianPrince]

The US army is the main, and actually the only one besides the Israeli army that checking this system seriously.

hundreds of tests was done in the US on Strykers and other armored vehicles that serves in Iraq, LIVE tests, while RAFAEL man INSIDE the armored vehicle, beeing SHOT AT while the system is on, and yet, the system didn't screwd up, and have 100% success.

This dude is trusting this system so much that he put his lives in " risk " dozens of times, and he's the leader of the Trophy project.


The system is nice but if Infantry is close by they will end up like spaghetti next to the vehicle with this system.

Also I doubt your claims that a "RAFALE SUPER DUPER MAN MAN" was doing such acts.This would be reported in defence magazines and I have not seen any of this reported.

Stop it with your lies.

[4X-IL]

The system is nice but if Infantry is close by they will end up like spaghetti next to the vehicle with this system.

Also I doubt your claims that a "RAFALE SUPER DUPER MAN MAN" was doing such acts.This would be reported in defence magazines and I have not seen any of this reported.

Stop it with your lies.


why wont you do a google search about the Trophy system testing on the Stryker and see by yourself?

The head of the Trophy project was the driver inside the Stryker while it was beeing shot.

we had tv articles about it in Israel and I also read about it in the internet, we saw him doing that on TV, every israeli can support that.

you can believe what you want, I never met a guy like you who talk actually like a retard, and I can't be more serious.

You doesn't worth my time, Prince of Persia, go and kill some jews with your though persian hands would you?

[PersianPrince]

why wont you do a google search about the Trophy system testing on the Stryker and see by yourself?

The head of the Trophy project was the driver inside the Stryker while it was beeing shot.

we had tv articles about it in Israel and I also read about it in the internet, we saw him doing that on TV, every israeli can support that.

you can believe what you want, I never met a guy like you who talk actually like a retard, and I can't be more serious.

You doesn't worth my time, Prince of Persia, go and kill some jews with your though persian hands would you?

Jews are my friends Zionist my enemies.I came into this world alone and I wil leave it alone.

I have seen it mounted on the Stryker but no reports of Rafale personel inside of it while being targeted by Iraqi resistance.

[Roger Garaudy]

What would the system do against a multiple warhead system?

[Yoni45]

What would the system do against a multiple warhead system?

They have anti tank, personnel launched, multiple warhead systems? I guess it's possible, any link?

[Roger Garaudy]

The Army also was modifying the MLRS to fire short-range, radar-guided, multiple warhead, terminal guidance warhead (TGW) missiles that have a fire-and-forget capability against moving or stationary targets. An MLRS/TGW system was being jointly developed by domestic and European contractors as part of an international antiarmor development program. Its key technological breakthrough was the perfection of a millimeter wave radar that discriminated between military targets and ground clutter. Each of the warhead's three submunitions was equipped with an extremely small antenna that enabled it to locate its target.

http://www.army.mil/cmh/books/DAHSUM/1989/CH11.htm

It does not say one is available, but i bet it could easily be developed.