Your opinion about the german engagment in Afghanistan

[Falco]

so.
there has been alot of discussion in germany about the Bundeswehr's engagment in the north of afghanistan.
since i have never talked to anybody from the region about this i would like to know your(since you are neighbours especially the iranian's and pakistani's) opinion about this.


/edit: poll added

[Ricardo]

Germany should leave afghanistan, Germany should not be involved in any conflict, specially since they...:wub2:

[Yasin20]

i think germany should stay i recon they are doing a good job and there good at peacekeeping

[jorg2007]

i think Germany should stay and have fun

[mig21bis]

Leave....like all should leave

[Plato]

They should stay and take afghan's poppies.

[kasaeed]

so.
there has been alot of discussion in germany about the Bundeswehr's engagment in the north of afghanistan.
since i have never talked to anybody from the region about this i would like to know your(since you are neighbours especially the iranian's and pakistani's) opinion about this.


/edit: poll added

German unlike other western countries have a better reputation in Pakistani Muslim due to their alliance first with khailifah and then supporting Indian National Army.
In my view, they should get the hell out of that place. That will tarnish their image in the long run.

[DehdaR]

As long as any country is invaded under illegal grounds, I think any foreign nation staying there will result in the lose of that nations sovereignty.

[indianguy]

If everyone leaves Afghanistan , then who will control . Afghanistan current Government is not capable of anything and as soon as International Forces will leave , There would be again Civil war among Afghans .

[kasaeed]

If everyone leaves Afghanistan , then who will control . Afghanistan current Government is not capable of anything and as soon as International Forces will leave , There would be again Civil war among Afghans .

If everyone leaves Afghanistan,Taliban will be in power, last time when they were in power atleast Afghanistan and Pakistan were in peace.

[Iran33]

so.
there has been alot of discussion in germany about the Bundeswehr's engagment in the north of afghanistan.
since i have never talked to anybody from the region about this i would like to know your(since you are neighbours especially the iranian's and pakistani's) opinion about this.


/edit: poll added

I have a simple question for you?

How would you feel, if a part of Afghan army came from 3000 km away to Germany and stayed there for whatever the reason...

Always, put yourself in place of those who are on the opposite side....then you'll get the real answer!

[kasaeed]

I have a simple question for you?

How would you feel, if a part of Afghan army came from 3000 km away to Germany and stayed there for whatever the reason...

Always, put yourself in place of those who are on the opposite side....then you'll get the real answer!

Thats the best way of answering the above question.

[Falco]

I have a simple question for you?

How would you feel, if a part of Afghan army came from 3000 km away to Germany and stayed there for whatever the reason...

Always, put yourself in place of those who are on the opposite side....then you'll get the real answer!

of course "occupation" is nothing that anybody likes.
but i think that the international community has a responsibility to afghanistan.
this country has been trough so much during the last 20 years and i think its not acceptable to leave untill there is a strong central government that can handle taliban or who ever is trying to suppress the afghan people.

i also think that there is not enough done so far.

about your question:

well..
i think the reason is very important.
germany is a stable and peaceful nation and therefore i cant see any reason to have afghan peacekeepers here.
but afghanistan as you know had war, civil war, a radical government and war again within the last 20 years!
its a whole different situation!

[indianguy]

If everyone leaves Afghanistan,Taliban will be in power, last time when they were in power atleast Afghanistan and Pakistan were in peace.

Kamran sab , Taliban were in power in Afghanistan , but things were not so good . Treatment of females , training camps , blowing up Statues .

I know relations between Afghanistan and Pakistan were so high during Taliban time and this was that time only when people from around the world were coming for taking training and Afghanistan was become the breeding ground of AL QAIDA .

Al Qaida ways are not good and Taliban have allied themselves with Al QAIDA , so how relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan would be better if Taliban will be back in power ?

I think Pakistani Army is fighting Al Qaida and Taliban both now .

[kasaeed]

Kamran sab , Taliban were in power in Afghanistan , but things were not so good . Treatment of females , training camps , blowing up Statues .

I know relations between Afghanistan and Pakistan were so high during Taliban time and this was that time only when people from around the world were coming for taking training and Afghanistan was become the breeding ground of AL QAIDA .

Al Qaida ways are not good and Taliban have allied themselves with Al QAIDA , so how relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan would be better if Taliban will be back in power ?

I think Pakistani Army is fighting Al Qaida and Taliban both now .

U deny that there was peace in Afghanistan during Taliban?

[indianguy]

U deny that there was peace in Afghanistan during Taliban?

R u sure that there was peace ? civil war was still going on in Northern parts .

[kasaeed]

R u sure that there was peace ? civil war was still going on in Northern parts .

Yes a very small peace of Afghanistan. Just like Kashmir and Assam for India, Waziristan SWAT for Pakistan

[indianguy]

Yes a very small peace of Afghanistan. Just like Kashmir and Assam for India, Waziristan SWAT for Pakistan

I m talking here abt the battles which were fought by Northern alliances against Taliban , its consider civil war only coz Taliban didnt defeated them and time to time warlords were changing sides .

[Iranian Guards]

taleban organization is a animal organization....

[kasaeed]

I m talking here abt the battles which were fought by Northern alliances against Taliban , its consider civil war only coz Taliban didnt defeated them and time to time warlords were changing sides .

Compare today's Kabul with yesterday. Yesterday's Kabul was peaceful

[kasaeed]

taleban organization is a animal organization....

Yes for Afghans not for Pakistan

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

of course "occupation" is nothing that anybody likes.
but i think that the international community has a responsibility to afghanistan.
this country has been trough so much during the last 20 years and i think its not acceptable to leave untill there is a strong central government that can handle taliban or who ever is trying to suppress the afghan people.
And how do we know the strong central government isn't suppressing the Afghan people?

[Falco]

And how do we know the strong central government isn't suppressing the Afghan people?

we dont.
but then there would be a central government at least.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

we dont.
but then there would be a central government at least.But is a central government really preferrable?

[Falco]

But is a central government really preferrable?
i think so.
the last thing afghanistan needs at the moment is being splitted up into dozen tiny countries.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

i think so.
the last thing afghanistan needs at the moment is being splitted up into dozen tiny countries.But what if people there seem to prefer it that way? I'm not saying they necessarily do, but civil warfare seems to indicate that.

[IR.IRAN]

why should german soldiers or any other soldiers have to put up their lives for the interests of the usa's wars? the usa funded and trained taleban and they should be able to finish the job they started, not someone else

[mustavaris]

Finish the job and act like a military power they are.

World cannot screw the Afghanis yet another time.

[mustavaris]

the usa funded and trained taleban and they should be able to finish the job they started, not someone else

And what if they don´t?

May we also kick out the rap... *krhm* refugees and tell them to mind their own businesses?

[IR.IRAN]

And what if they don´t?

May we also kick out the rap... *krhm* refugees and tell them to mind their own businesses?

then they should face the so called "terrorism terrorism terrorism" that they always complain about

[mustavaris]

then they should face the so called "terrorism terrorism terrorism" that they always complain about

Tell me, what good it would do if Europeans withdrew, zeroed the aid and kicked out the refugees? Disengagement must be total if we do not want to gain the bads of two worlds.

[IR.IRAN]

Tell me, what good it would do if Europeans withdrew, zeroed the aid and kicked out the refugees? Disengagement must be total if we do not want to gain the bads of two worlds.

and so far would have they achieved??

[mustavaris]

and so far would have they achieved??

Most of the Afghanistan is relatively peacuful and when talking about hostile incidents, majority (60..75%) of the killed have been Talibans, it wasnt this peaceful during the Taliban era, a lot of mines and unexploded ordnance have been destroyed, thousands of militiamen disarmed, national army & police rebuilt to at certain level, hundreds of schools and hospitals and nurseries have been built, police and military trained and supplied, elections have been held and the country has received millions and millions in aid while many have found shelter in European countries.

[serb08]

they should go home and be put under house arrest like in post war period werent they the axis less then a century ago probaly means i will see a hardcore country like Nkorea peacekeeping in future.

[fulcrum29smt]

so.
there has been alot of discussion in germany about the Bundeswehr's engagment in the north of afghanistan.
since i have never talked to anybody from the region about this i would like to know your(since you are neighbours especially the iranian's and pakistani's) opinion about this.


/edit: poll added

I think Germany should stay as other Europeans countries on Afghanistan, we can not leave the country without taking out the Talibans and Al Qaeda.

This a just war because 9/11 but I am not in agreement about the way Americans are making the war there. They are making many mistakes as killing innocent people on weddings and torture people. That is not the right way to win that war and have the Afhanistan people on your side. Europeans Armys are by far more civilizated.

USA should also press hard to Pakistan to really fight the Talibans and Alqaeda, if the Pakis are not able to do they should choose, or they leave the OTAN to act there or face a hard blockade. The worst thing about this is that the USA and the Pakistan governments created the Talibans so they should solve it.

I have a simple question for you?

How would you feel, if a part of Afghan army came from 3000 km away to Germany and stayed there for whatever the reason...

Always, put yourself in place of those who are on the opposite side....then you'll get the real answer!

Well If I know that the government it was the talibans I would support the occupants for sure. Is the same situation as when Germany was occupated after WW2.

I don't understand how an Irani can support the Talibans as a government for Afghanistan.

U deny that there was peace in Afghanistan during Taliban?

What kind of peace? The same kind of peace as for example there was on Germany before the WW2? Ocuppations camp, executions, female mistreatment, etc...

Compare today's Kabul with yesterday. Yesterday's Kabul was peaceful

Again that ****... That's not true, in Kabul there are attacks towards the international forces but when the Talibans there was by far worst for all the people who lived on the city.

I hate that many Pakistanis are too much friendlies to that terrorists, also you are creating them on your Madrassas through your heretic Islam beings.

The Taliban's are a shame for Islam, a religion that wants peace. They will be remembered as the Red Khemer of Muslims because their actions.

[indianguy]

Last Updated: Tuesday, 25 March 2008, 00:00 GMT

Donors accused of failing Afghans


Some $10bn (£5bn) in aid promised to Afghanistan since the fall of the Taleban has still to be delivered, a group of 94 aid agencies has said.

The Agency Coordinating Body For Afghan Relief (Acbar) says that two-thirds of aid bypasses the Afghan government.

Forty per cent of aid goes back to donor countries in consultant fees and expatriate pay, the group says.

As a result, it warns that the prospects for peace in Afghanistan are being undermined.

The research for the Acbar report was by one of its member groups, Oxfam.

"Western countries are failing to deliver" is the clear message of the report.

It shows a disparity between what has been promised and what has been delivered.

And the way in which the money is used is also criticised.

'Poor security'

Different countries have different ways of spending.

Some countries channel donations through the government to help their civil service manage and decide on the funding of development programmes but two-thirds of the international aid misses out the government altogether.

America is the biggest donor by far.

But a USAid official confirmed that since 2001 it had only spent two-thirds of the money it pledged - a shortfall of $8.5bn - blaming poor security for an inability to get projects under way.

And the official said only 6% of the overall budget was spent through the Afghan government "to ensure US taxpayers' money could be accounted for" - implying a lack of trust in the government system.

Disappointment

Acbar's director said too much was being spent on short-term projects as a lever to win people over as part of the military counter-insurgency strategy, at the expense of longer-term development.

The report points out that while the US military spends $100m a day, the average amount of aid spent by all donors combined has been just $7m a day since 2001.

The findings echo the feelings of Afghan people who had high expectations when the Taleban were removed from power.

They are now disappointed by a lack of tangible progress despite the billions of dollars they are told have been heading into the country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7311972.stm

[kasaeed]

I think Germany should stay as other Europeans countries on Afghanistan, we can not leave the country without taking out the Talibans and Al Qaeda.OK lets seem whats happens in Pakistan especially when western puppy Mushy will be gone.

This a just war because 9/11 but I am not in agreement about the way Americans are making the war there. They are making many mistakes as killing innocent people on weddings and torture people. That is not the right way to win that war and have the Afhanistan people on your side. Europeans Armys are by far more civilizated.
9/11 was done by the saudis, topple them and introduce demcracy there. But I know that won't suit u as democratic Saudi will never give u oil :)
USA should also press hard to Pakistan to really fight the Talibans and Alqaeda, if the Pakis are not able to do they should choose, or they leave the OTAN to act there or face a hard blockade. The worst thing about this is that the USA and the Pakistan governments created the Talibans so they should solve it.
Why should our soldiers or civilians be killed. We had no problem with Taleban and Alqaeda, until we poked our nose in western conflict they were not bothering us.


Well If I know that the government it was the talibans I would support the occupants for sure. Is the same situation as when Germany was occupated after WW2.

I don't understand how an Irani can support the Talibans as a government for Afghanistan.Coz if there is war in Afghanistan, its Irani and Pakistani who are effected. Not the europeans.



What kind of peace? The same kind of peace as for example there was on Germany before the WW2? Ocuppations camp, executions, female mistreatment, etc...Taliban were not occupiers, there were executions of those who broke law and please i got knowledge of Afganistan from Afgans living their, i believe them, there was no mistreatment of woman.



Again that ****... That's not true, in Kabul there are attacks towards the international forces but when the Talibans there was by far worst for all the people who lived on the city. No sir, Kabul was peaceful before US invaded Afghanistan.

I hate that many Pakistanis are too much friendlies to that terrorists, also you are creating them on your Madrassas through your heretic Islam beings.Madrassas are school which make Islamic Law doctors, there is nothing wrong in that. There are no military training in madrassas and if there is military training I don;t see its wrong. If there can be ROTC in US varsities why can't we do that.

The Taliban's are a shame for Islam, a religion that wants peace. They will be remembered as the Red Khemer of Muslims because their actions.They were simple people all they asked was evidence from US regarding OBL. Western countries give shalters to our disdents, you guys never extradite them. Why is this expected from us.

[fulcrum29smt]

OK lets seem whats happens in Pakistan especially when western puppy Mushy will be gone.
9/11 was done by the saudis, topple them and introduce demcracy there. But I know that won't suit u as democratic Saudi will never give u oil :)
Why should our soldiers or civilians be killed. We had no problem with Taleban and Alqaeda, until we poked our nose in western conflict they were not bothering us.

That's the main reason because we the international community of Nations can not leave Afghanistan because we don't want to have again the Talibans on power on Afghanistan. The Saudis are not a democracy as many countries on the world but at least you can talk with them and they are acting more reasonably fighting the terrorism.

Most of Pakistan people are Pastun and they develop as you friendly arguments to Talibans, that's not fair and safe for your country. Remember one thing, those who attacked USA on 9/11 and have made other terrorist attacks will be persued.

Is clear that the Talibans and Al Qaeda were not a problems for Pakistan governments, on the 80s they were created and supported by USA and the Saudis. Now things have changed and USA is everytime seeing more Pakistan as thread than an ally because they are not fighting terrorism.

Your country have to be on one side, you can not be talking with Talibans or helping them and try to have good relations with the rest of the world.


Coz if there is war in Afghanistan, its Irani and Pakistani who are effected. Not the europeans.

Affected how? Did you remember the Iranian diplomatics killed by the Talibans?

Iran is a peaceful country and don't wants a war with USA as normal, also they are not supporting the Talibans or Al Qaeda as Pakistan.

Iran supports Hezbola and Iraq's Mehdi Army but is not easy from my point of view to call that terrorism, that should be call insurgence.

Taliban were not occupiers, there were executions of those who broke law and please i got knowledge of Afganistan from Afgans living their, i believe them, there was no mistreatment of woman.

Just a link you should see and judge by your self. ;) http://www.lccables.com/talibans/2.html

Talibans were so sweet and so brave and good persons. (MODE IRONIC: ON) :no1:

No sir, Kabul was peaceful before US invaded Afghanistan.

Yes a peace made with a lot of blood, threatening all the people and making massive killings in order to instruct them to be what they call on their heretic Islam true muslims. Talibans are acting on the same way as they were the Crusades, the only problem about that is that we are on XXI century.

Madrassas are school which make Islamic Law doctors, there is nothing wrong in that. There are no military training in madrassas and if there is military training I don;t see its wrong. If there can be ROTC in US varsities why can't we do that.

I know that Madrassas are Islamic schools, I don't have any complain about that you learn childrens your religion, that's good and fair. The problems is when you mix Religion plus the Yihad and you promote the world's strictest form of Islam. Music, television, cinema and most forms of entertainment were banned, severe restrictions on women's access to health care and education also were imposed. I have full respect for Islamic countries and their culture. I support them use on my country (Spain) the use of the Hijab or the Chador but the the use of the Burkha is too far away any humanity.

Sorry what means ROTC? I don' understand you.

They were simple people all they asked was evidence from US regarding OBL. Western countries give shalters to our disdents, you guys never extradite them. Why is this expected from us.

OBL? What means that? Disidents? What kind of disidents are you talking?

[kasaeed]

ROTC is some kindda military tarining given to some students in US military
OBL = OSama bin Laldeen :D

Responsible people in Taliban govt should be tried and killed on Hazara massacre no doubt.But responsible people not everyone. Look I don't want terrorist attacks in Europe and US. But not at your expense. There was a bomb blast near my house and my office. I was panicked for many hours regarding my 4 year old son safety. I don't want that in my country neither in your, but sorry for being selfish but for me my country, my family , my daughter and son comes first rather then yours.

[fulcrum29smt]

Hello Kasaeed!

ROTC is some kindda military tarining given to some students in US military
OBL = OSama bin Laldeen :D

That was funny M8... :roflmao3:

Responsible people in Taliban govt should be tried and killed on Hazara massacre no doubt.

Any Taliban as other any other warlords should be tried on Afghanistan if they have participated on any attack to the people of Afghanistan. I am towards the death penalty, anyway that should be the choose of Afghan people or Authorities.

But responsible people not everyone.

I totally agree with that.

Look I don't want terrorist attacks in Europe and US. But not at your expense. There was a bomb blast near my house and my office. I was panicked for many hours regarding my 4 year old son safety. I don't want that in my country neither in your, but sorry for being selfish but for me my country, my family , my daughter and son comes first rather then yours.

I can understand you and I am really sorry about that bomb blast, I'm happy to hear that your family was not damaged. ;)

Anyway I think is not the correct decision. Not wanting to see the problem does not stop there continue, we can see many analogies on history.

That was the main fault of German people after Hitler uprising to power. When Hitler began to arresting people neighbours because they were jews or they were not thinking as him they thought that was not their problem. After some time the crude war arrived them.

[kasaeed]

Salaams
It might seem to you as incorrect decision but the people in favour of war on terror are doing the following in Pakistan:

There are more then 200 missing persons in Pakistan. Kidnapped by Pakistani or US security agencies, there challan not presented in any court.

Mushy on US backing sacked the chief justice of Pakistan, coz he was afraid he might make some decision against him e.g. He asked the govt to present all the missing persons. He checked the sale of Pakistan Steel at very low cost.

US has given Pakistan about 10 billion dollars in 4 years out of which 9.5 billion were spent on sale of weapons to Pakistan. If US and party would have spent 1 billion on tribal area education health and commerce things would have been much better by now.

You see US and its alliance want peace in their country but at the same time they want dictatorship, violence in our land coz its easier to deal with a dictator rather then a democratic government.

Would u be helping some one who is also screwing you?

[Bernd]

They should leave. By force if neccecary.

[Gewyne]

I voted you stay as peacekeepers, now your there its hard to see how you can leave. Personaly I have no idea how so many countries got suckered into going into Afghanistan, it was a US/UK war so how it became a NATO operation is beyond me.

If any NATO countries had any sense they would have stayed away and try to resolve things differently.

[Germania]

they should go home and be put under house arrest like in post war period werent they the axis less then a century ago probaly means i will see a hardcore country like Nkorea peacekeeping in future.

Ah shut up u racist. This is the 2nd comment i saw u say **** about germany.
u should be banned.

[GER_Mark]

He's Serb, we bombed them 10 years ago. I can understand his frustration.

[Germania]

what i hate about serbs is that in every argument they start saying "in ww2..."

[Khosrau II]

what i hate about serbs is that in every argument they start saying "in ww2..."

Speaking of ...:biggrin2: i would have rather seen Wehrmacht in Afghanistan.
Although germans did enjoy some respect compared to other EU nations in CA, now they are no different than other Nato nations and i only like them more than those fanatical muslims.
It's up to germany to decide what they want afterall it is the US and UK who brought all of the others into this mess.

[Alienoz]

I voted for "other". In your shoes, that Afghanistan experience is valuable. German army did not fight in a real war for a long time. They are getting used to modern warfare.

For German army, it is an experience they need.

[GER_Mark]

Germany to boost troops in Afghanistan by 1,000

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9192/fennekisafsg6.jpg

Pressed hard by the United States and NATO to get more involved in the fighting in Afghanistan, Germany has said it will send an additional 1,000 troops to that country, but still avoid the areas where combat is the most intense.

German Defence Minister Franz Josef Jung said Germany would boost its troop presence by bringing its total force in Afghanistan to 4,500. Jung said the extra forces would create more room for them to perform their tasks under the auspices of the 52,000-strong International Security Assistance Force (ISAF.) “The security situation has become more difficult,” said Jung setting out the German plans to beef up its troop presence in Afghanistan. Germany has been under pressure from the US and Britain to dispatch forces to the south of Afghanistan, where ISAF troops have been facing tough fighting with the Taliban. German troops have been based in the relatively more stabile northern part of the country. But Jung said there were no plans to change the location of German forces in Afghanistan. The German Defence Minister said the increase in German troops would help to “provide direct protection for our soldiers.” The German Parliament has to sign off on the nation’s overseas troop deployment.

Jung said he had informed the defence policy experts in the various German parliamentary factions of the plans.

Detailing the new troop commitment, Jung also said Germany will reduce its commitment to US-led anti-terror force, Operation Enduring Freedom, to 800 troops from 1,400 troops. However, up to 100 of the elite troops are to be made available for Afghanistan.

The plans for a higher troop presence follow on the advice given by German armed forces Inspector General Wolfgang Schneiderhan, who advised Jung about the manpower needs necessary for the German troops to fulfill their mission and for their own security.

On July 1, Germany is to takeover responsibility for the rapid deployment forces in order to protect ISAF operations in northern Afghanistan. The German military also aims to become more strongly involved in training of Afghan soldiers.


http://www.neurope.eu/articles/88176.php