JNA Undreground Base Zeljava

[Balija]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X455wiHCCac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGMF8pyXNz4&feature=related


The Base near Bihac was destroyed by Serbs, to prevent that the Bosnian Army gets this base...

[Balija]

What is about the cpacity?

Does anybody have further Information abou Zeljava???

http://www.fez.ch/albums/internesalbum/Zeljava_Fliegerstollen_mit_MiG_21.sized.jpg

http://img155.echo.cx/img155/3243/z17zm.jpg

Satelite pictures:

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/6625/zeljava1a2zq.jpg

[COBener]

JNA the third strongest army in Europe.Or fourth.. Thank you for videos Balija Brother.

[Kosovo Knight]

The Željava air base (also known as underground complex "KLEK") was the biggest underground air base in the ex SFR Yugoslavia. It was build near town of Bihać in SR BiH in period from 1957 to 1965. It was homebase of 117th Fighter Aviation Regiment of Yugoslav Air force which has consisted from 124th and 125th fighter squadron and 352nd reccoanistance squadron. Those units were operateing Soviet made MiG-21 fighter aircrafts. It was destroyed by Yugoslave Peoples army during it's withdrawn from theritory of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1992. and later Croatian Serbs army finalized its demolition.

Interesting iformation is tat this base is on border of Croatia with BiH. BiH Army couldn't use it becouse it never had air force, Croatian Air force maby, but it was in the Serbian controled theritory on Croatian side.

[Balija]

The Bosnian Soldiers were also educated in the JNA, we had also enough pilots.

Nemoj opet da se prepiramo ko cigani sta da misle Iranci o Balkancima.

How many Air crafts could hide in this base?

[Kosovo Knight]

Well each squadron in YPA consist from 16 aircrats, so 48 aircrafts, but I think that there was space for a number of reserve aircrafts. And yes, there was a lot of god muslim pilots in YPA, like Omer who was flying on Iraqi MiG-23 without original catapulting seat with ordinary chair from Zagreb to Bihać, and later from Bihać to Batajnica in 1991., and alos Emir Šišić who has shot down helicopter over Croatia (and ironicly Croats have called him "chetnik pilot"), but the facts are that ARBiH didn't had air force and fighter aircrafts to operate from Želajva, and it couldn't buy any.

[Balija]

JNA the third strongest army in Europe.Or fourth.. Thank you for videos Balija Brother.

They Hijacked the Army.



JNA in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqKgeClEP3A&feature=related

[DeepEyes]

Nemoj opet da se prepiramo ko cigani sta da misle Iranci o Balkancima.
Yes but the Serbs, hijacked the army for which we all payed

Army is not a plane...
Pa ne znam ko je sada ciganin. Ako neces da se raspravljamo, nemoj da provociras.

[Balija]

O.K. sorry

[Kosovo Knight]

anyway, I think that YPA was not the 3rd ore 4th strongest army in Europe, just look that Bulgarian Army in the late 80's had MiG-23 fighters, Su-25 attack aircrafts and much more T-72 tanks than Yugoslav Peoples Army had M-84 tanks and MiG-29 aircrafts. JNA maby could beacome the 3/4th strongest army in europe in the 1990's with replacment of old MiG-21s and T-55s.

[Balija]

M-84 I heard that it was the most advanced tank of his time. What is so special on this tank?

[Relikt]

Fire control system was excellent. In comparison with basic T-72 is was science fiction.
Also M-84 had passive night vision while most of T-72 (in that time) use active night vision (Large infra red lamp) which gave away their position for 2000m or higher.

M-84 had superior radio (especially Kuwait M-84).

Later variants of T-72 have good (but not better) FCS and have passive night vision. They also had capability to use ATGM (which M-84 get only in 1990'). T-72B have much fatter armor then M-84.

About JNA. You need to check budget of JNA by states. You will see Serbia gave much more then Bosnia for example. Croatia paid for naval force so they can say they were robbed but they separate from Yugoslavia so they cant claim right on JNA equipment (by any law).

So Serbia probable paid most of land and airforce of JNA.

[Balija]

As far as Iknow was Slowenia the main budget payer and Croatia and bosnia a bit, and Serbia (with Kosovo), Monte Negro and Makedonia the reciver.

What is about the Laser distance visir?

Does Serbia produce this Tank?
http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen_orient/Emirats_arabe/IDEX_2003_Pictures_Gallery/IDEX_2005/pictures_4/M-84_AB1_army_recognition_IDEX_2005_01.jpg

This Kuwati Tanks were in the Gulf War Superior to the Iraki T-55 T-62. What is about that the M-84 can shoot in full driving speed?



Against an good trained Infantery in the mountaneus Balkan has this Tank showed to be weak armored at the top.


Bosnia does not have a real military, only a professional Army, we are under the controll of the EU, because the Serbs want always their Special Threatment, bosanski srbi misle da smo mi isti primitivci ko oni dace mo ih gazit ako nemadne RS,. U ratu smo imali nekoliko milliardi (Iz inostranstva su bosnjaci slali pare i dobijalo se iz muslimanskog svijeta). Srbija je jedina zemlja na balkanu koja ima jos fabrikaciju oruzja

[Relikt]

BiH economy was military production. So when BiH gave money in budget they gave money to their economy. This is why Slovenia was pretty pissed off with JNA budget. They didnt had large military industry but still they gave large ammount of money in budget.

Serbia did have benefit from military production but % of military industry was much smaller then BiH.

Croatia didnt had large military industry until start of M-84 production. So they also benefit from budget in late '70 and 1980'. But their part of budget goes for naval power (not for tanks which they build so Serbia and other states paid them to product tanks).

It is pretty complicated but if you read about sucecion of JNA you will see that BiH give up from their first proposition which was compesation because BiH would became obligator to Slovenia, Serbia and Croatia.

http://www.mail-archive.com/miroslav@antic.org/msg00024.html

[Balija]

Why we see only russian aircrafts what is about yugoslavian jets?

Did not an other Zeljava Styled Base exist in Kosovo?

[Kosovo Knight]

Yes, the Slatian Air base near Priština, but it was just a shelter which was simmilar to Željava, and it was more vulnerable than Željava. It was home of 83rd fighter aviation regiment, adn its squadrons, 123rd and 130th fighter squadrons, and durign the early 90's 130th FSqdn which was equiped MiG-21PFM was disband and replaced with 124th FSqdn from Željava air base which was equiped with MiG-21 bis and UM aircrafts. The Slatina was damaged in NATO air strike on Priština during the aggresion. Afther the withdrawn of FRY military from Kosovo and Metohija, the last 11 MiGs which have surrived war have flow to the Batajnica where they have join the 126th FSqdn. Here is one picture from Slatina beafore it was damaged.

http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/44/44/2/89/63/2445289630089918257YJGYGy_th.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2445289630089918257YJGYGy)

[Balija]

What is with Yugo made fighting jet, Super Galeb (which was produced in Mostar Bosnia until 1991)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/G-4_SOKO_Super_Galeb_1991.jpg/800px-G-4_SOKO_Super_Galeb_1991.jpg

any further infos about yugo jets?

[Kosovo Knight]

Well from some 90 build aircrafts, today there are 6 in Myanmar, 25 in Serbia, 17 in Montenegro and one in BiH. Serbian Air force is going to modernize it fleet of Super Galebs, while BiH and Montnegro in new fromationas of their armies won't have jet aviation. The Serbia is interest to buy ore change Bosnian and Montenegro jets.

[Balija]

What is about other Yugo Types?

[Kosovo Knight]

The Galeb and Jastreb aircrafts are now operational onyl in Lybia, but they are going to bee withdrawn soon as they get new trainer aircrafts. Orao aircrafts are operated today only by Serbia (some 32, but the moust of them is not operational), while there are 7 of them in BiH. Our MoD was talking with Bosnian MoD to buy aircrafts and soem tanks, SPA and other equipment which is surplus for OSBiH. Anyway the Oraos are going to be retired by 2015. Utva 75 aircrafts are curently operated by Montenegro army (3, one crashed in Skadar lake) and Serbian Air force (12), but both air forces are going to replace them. Other air forces have already give their Utva 75's to local aeroclubs.

[Balija]

Jastreb J-21
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6084/j21jastrebrskme0.jpg


Orao J-22
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/7/6/5/1259567.jpg


Orao looks not bad. Jastreb seems to be a light atacker against ground forces.

[Balija]

The Croats have upgrades, the M-84D

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Dan12345_2006/M-84D.jpg


A recent statement Croatian Defence Minister Berislav Roncevic made before top Kuwaiti state officials that Croatian Government guarantees that the company Djuro Djakovic is technologically and organisationally entirely capable of meeting and fulfilling the demands of upgrading 150 Kuwaiti M-84 tanks and if need be to manufacture a further 66 tanks that were never delivered to Kuwait, but should have been in the early 1990s, has put Djuro Djakovic in a position to clinch the most lucrative deal in its history, worth about $300 million. The price of upgrading one tank would be up to a million US dollars, depending on the equipment package the Kuwaitis opt for, while the price of a new tank is about $2.5 million.

[Kosovo Knight]

Well this info is now fals, the Kuwait Army has chose Abrams tanks to replace M-84AB's. Anyway I think Croatia can't produce tank without cooperation with factories from other Yugoslav republics, same as Serbia.

[Kosovo Knight]

More from Željava...

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3498/slika01vn9.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slika01vn9.jpg)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5662/slika02gq5.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slika02gq5.jpg)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7599/slika04cd4.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slika04cd4.jpg)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5760/slika05dx1.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slika05dx1.jpg)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4203/slika06au1.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slika06au1.jpg)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7742/slika07ew3.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slika07ew3.jpg)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2987/slika08wr2.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slika08wr2.jpg)
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4015/slika09zp7.jpg (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slika09zp7.jpg)

[Balija]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1QjOxEFqOA&feature=PlayList&p=38279FCC955E072F&index=0&playnext=1

A project which was never finished Novi Avion, 4th Generation fighter

[DeepEyes]

Balija i sense Yugo-nostalgia in your posts.

[Balija]

To be honest some bit, yes, but I do not miss the times where you had to secretly celebrate Bajram... (in the 80s was it allowed but still not welcomed by authorities)... or our bosnian national Identity was surpressed, by teaching us we had been Serbs...


Titos Economic System (The Workers Self-Regulation) an Bosnian explained it to me was simply revolutionary Idea. The Intellectual Output for such an small and wardestroyed region was realy incredible.

[DeepEyes]

Terrible times. Communist government in Yugoslavia, forbid religious expression not just for Bosnian Muslims, but also Serbs suffered same. They didn't forbid directly, you can celebrate at home, if you were quiet and no one knows about it :) If someone from the party knows that you are religious, you couldn't find job, get credit, they would expropriate your land... Like they have guard near churches and note everyone who went there.
Bosniaks don't have Slavic origin? Open thread... I'm interested, very.

[Balija]

Yes they had an extreme of any kind of religion, for muslims it was much harder because on Party meetings they all had to eat Pork, some did it and fought during the Communism within the System to demand the recognition as nation and more religous freedom. This was much but compared with other communist countries where all priests got shot, and religous people ended in Gulags and Religious buildings were destroyed. Tito was not so brutal but had more rafinesse.

We discussed this already in the History Forum here, Origin of the Serbs Genealogy (I did not speak about our culture which is slavic like our Language but we do not have much slavic Factor R1a).


This is but only about the Male heritage the Female I am still searching data.

[Relikt]

Jastreb J-21
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6084/j21jastrebrskme0.jpg


Its own constructor wasnt pleased with Jastreb. He thought Yugoslavia need to build much more capable jet then Jastreb because they could do that. But political leadership didnt allow that. It is from some book about yugoslavian aircrafts.


Orao J-22
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/7/6/5/1259567.jpg


Orao looks not bad. Jastreb seems to be a light atacker against ground forces.Eagle would be superb if Brits werent bastards. We arange very powerful engine for Eagle (it was design as one engine plane) but in last moment Brits didnt allow deal. It would get same engine as Tornado have. Brits said they dont want to sell thier top engine to Romania (Eagle was cooperation project with Romania) because Romania is in Warsaw Pact.

But it was only excuse. If Eagle get that engine it would be much better then British Jaguar which would ruin Jaguar exports.