Usrael

[Pure_sunni]

How come Israel is so strong and has so good military than lets say Lebanon or Jordan do they have more factories or something?? why is their military so good????

[hurdy]

How come Israel is so strong and has so good military than lets say Lebanon or Jordan do they have more factories or something?? why is their military so good????


US has been funding Israel since 1976, Israel is the largest aid annual recipient of the US (2billion+) and that doesnt even include the training, military equipement, weapons etc provided to Israel by the US.

The US did not provide Israel with the nuclear know-how though, UK took part in that. The US did not want Israel to have Nuclear weapons.

[Killur]

Help from the US+well trained personal with plenty of expirience+since Israel has no resources, its only goods are its people, this results in many high tech army inventions+ A LOT OF LUCK (like god is so on IL's side)= good army

[isr agent]

Israel (not USreal) gets about 3billion aid (economic plus millitary) money from the US, add to that the 45bil a year the security fund and you see US does give us money but its not that much after all compare to the 45, try to compare it to the iranian oil fields and how they buy tech from russia.
anyway, i dont think money does all the difference, the jewish immigrate from russia and europe added alot of minds to the hi tech, industry and army aswell, i wish it was used for not making weapons but in reality when iran is so close to the bomb and its leader claiming israel should be wiped off the map we have no choice but to have a strong army that will be able to defend and react to any kind of hostile action against israel.
I am very interested though, in a scenario of a war between israel and iran, if iran launched a nuke to israel, would'nt it hurt so many innocente arabs and muslims??? and on the other hand would'nt teheran will become ashes if our PM will only desire? i am starting to believe iran is like a terror country that would commit suicide by launching nuke at us and riskying blowing up teheran, but i want to ask the iranians whats your insight about it.
I for one dont want to wake up one day, hear a terrible boom and see a mushroom cloud then seconds after melt down in a yellow wave of massive heat, i know no one would want that to happen and i hope it wont but i still dont manage to figure why iran wishes us to be "wiped off"???

[hurdy]

No one wants Israel to be wiped off the face of the planet, they just want Israel to cease to exist as a nation, Iranian leaders will never nuke Israel in an pre-emptive strike simply because its suicide.

Some keep saying that they dont care about that and they will nuke Israel anyway because of their religion, those that say that have no idea that Jerusalem holds the 3rd holiest land of Islam...

About Israel only getting 3billion and the free military hardware, its the military hardware that makes ALL the difference... UN has been putting embargoes, sanctions on Iran since 1979 and because the US has the latest warfare technology it gives Israel the upper-hand.

[isr agent]

US does'nt give us all that much of a technology anymore, because the center of israel always been that we need to fight for our own and the army is the most important thing there are many hi tech companies that supply the army with the latest weaponry.
In order to US supply us with hi tech it goes off the budget of that 3bil, since we make alot of weapons here and it costs us alot of money because the US does not pay for it we give US manufactors the rights to make those weapons that way we get those for "free", but thats the point- we give them the rights we basiclly give them our unique technology, and trust me they are very very interested in what we have to offer a good example is the shut down of the lavi project by the USA and in return we got f-16's.
Ill give you a good example from reality: the army needs towels for the soldiers and also needs hi tech missiles for the air crafts, both can be made in israel but it will cost, so we buy those towels from USA and produce the missiles here, that is what, in my eyes, makes the diffrence between iran and israel- we are able to develop unique technology in key spots where secrecy is what counts while iran need to buy it from russia, in that case it is not so unique because the details for the iranian weapon that originally made in russia isnt such a big secret but in our case we make our own unique weapons that no one has a clue what they are made of.

[Sarge]

Hey guys remember me? I am sure many of you do, and by chance I happened to have stumbled on your forum by pure accident I swear, and decided to again get involved. I will of course be using passed posts as a point of reference, since last time I brought the facts to the table here they were all verified and accepted here by everyone. So let us begin with cutting though all this junk and making sense of this mess. Be advised though, if you’re going to reply to my posts please ensure to provide hard evidence from a reputable site that proves your facts.


How come Israel is so strong and has so good military than lets say Lebanon or Jordan do they have more factories or something?? why is their military so good????

First learn how to spell Israel correctly, its not usreal and not isreal, its Israel. Now I will answer your question one piece at a time.

is so strong and has so good military than lets say Lebanon or Jordan

The IDF is considered to be one of the most high-tech armies in the world, possessing top-of-the-line weapons and computer systems. Besides purchasing American-made weapon systems (such as the M4A1 assault rifle, F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon jets and Apache helicopter), the IDF has several large internal R&D departments.

IDF also purchases many technologies produced by the Israeli security industries including IAI, IMI, Elbit, El-Op, Rafael, Soltam and dozens of smaller firms. Many of these developments have been battle-tested in Israel's numerous military engagements, making the relationship mutually beneficial, the IDF getting tailor-made solutions and the industries a very high repute.

So what do we see above? True Israel does buy American made weapons, but the question is why. The answer is simple. Since the US aid funds only allow Israel to buy American made goods, or from American industry’s, it is forced to buy American made weapons. Most experts agree that with Israel being one of the largest military exporters for weapons, and one of the largest military technology developer it would be more likely to buy weapons from its own military industries, then foreign ones.

they have more factories or something?

Israel is one of the four largest exporter and developer of military weapons and technology., a example of that is Currently Israel is the only country in the world with an anti-ballistic missile defense system ("Hetz", or Arrow, which was developed by Israel) and working with the USA on development of a tactical high energy laser system against medium range rockets (called Nautilus THEL).

why is their military so good????
There are a few answers for this, without going into to much deapth I will say why;
Technology – Israel is many years ahead in terms of military technology then any country in the middle-east, this can be owed much to its large military industry.

Air-Force - The Israeli Air Force is considered the strongest air force in the Middle East, and one of the best and most sophisticated in the world. Many of its electronics and weapons systems are developed and built in Israel by Israeli Military Industries and Israeli Aircraft Industries. However, the greatest strength of the IAF is the skill of its pilots. Israeli combat pilots are considered the best in the world, and hold a large number of shoot-down records. It is interesting to note that American pilots receive training from their Israeli counterparts as part of their training curriculum (you can bet that line in the end is a fact, Google it if you doubt). The IAF is holding world records at the amounts of enemy's warplanes shoot-downs, air combats, special operations, and air to ground operations at the jet era.

Experience – A country on a constant state of war for all intensive purposes only gets better, most of the urban combat war used today in Iraq to clear buildings or otherwise is based of Israeli experience and technique. You can ask any active duty solder in Iraq. Also Israel infantry has a very extensive and strong urban combat experience, which extends for more then 50-years with insurgency’s and general combat. This experience is very strongly expressed in all of its infantry units, the Israeli combat ideology and strategies have been perfected over the years.

So those are the main reasons why without offending anyone, Israel has a “more improved military”

Now I will move to the replys.

that doesnt even include the training, military equipement, weapons etc provided to Israel by the US.

Is this a joke? US providing training to IDF forces? The Israelis don’t need the US to tech them how to kill, I think you got those mixed around.

The US did not provide Israel with the nuclear know-how though, UK took part in that.

That is also untrue; it was France that provided Israel with the nuclear know-how and the first nuclear core.

US has been funding Israel since 1976, Israel is the largest aid annual recipient of the US (2billion+)
3 billion on a $120 billion economy (generated by just 7 million people) isnt exactly a massive subsidy propping up a moribund Israeli economy, representing only 2.5% of total GDP. Egypt, with 10 TIMES the population, has a GDP of only twice that of Israel.

So as usual, trying to make the case that the US unfairly props up a teeter-tottering bankrupt Israeli economy, which would, of course, disappear if the plugs were pulled. THAT is the real agenda by posting this kind of crapola - another way of saying Israel would be dead without US. Which, if one really digs thru the statistics they often rely upon, turn out to be no more than a bunch of chicken lips.
If you want check the facts your self – remember I said reputable site, but i really do hope you know what GDP is, even though i am sure you dont. So i will tell you...
Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is the total value of final goods and services produced within a country's borders in a year. It is one of the measures of national income and output. It may be used as one indicator of the standard of living in a country, but there may be problems with this view. GDP is often abbreviated as Y. - In simple terms it means the amount of money the country makes. So think about that... US aid is only 2.5% of that country's income... hmmm

http://www.appliedlanguage.com/country_guides/israel_country_economy.shtml

[hurdy]

Is this a joke? US providing training to IDF forces? The Israelis don’t need the US to tech them how to kill, I think you got those mixed around.


Wow, so by your reasoning the US for example provides Israel with an F-15, Israel asks how to use it, US says just "shoot" with it..

Its common sense, the high-tech equipment that Israel has been recieving for decades came with extra training, tactical group movements, tank formations, flanking etc...


That is also untrue; it was France that provided Israel with the nuclear know-how and the first nuclear core.


UK provided Israel with the heavy water (which is the vital part needed for production), its all over the internet if you want to google it

BBC Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4743987.stm)


3 billion on a $120 billion economy (generated by just 7 million people) isnt exactly a massive subsidy propping up a moribund Israeli economy, representing only 2.5% of total GDP. Egypt, with 10 TIMES the population, has a GDP of only twice that of Israel.

Iran has 517Billion GDP, you dont see them advancing with military hardware as fast as Israel do you?

The fact is that Israel gets military hardware cheaper, easier than any other country, just just a couple of weeks ago Germany provided Israel with 2 Dolphin subs for only 66% of the actual price.

[isr agent]

Hurdy, germany sold us those subs because of crisis in the past between israel and germany, plus they have enough interests in this such as employing more workers to build those sub marines thus reducing the unemployment in the country, alot of countries do the same and give large discounts in order to encourge such a deals, in this case they have various reasons thats is the cause for the large discount.

[Sarge]

Wow, so by your reasoning the US for example provides Israel with an F-15, Israel asks how to use it, US says just "shoot" with it..
Really? Do you know the F-15 has been already sold to Japan, South Kora, Saudi Arabia, and a few others I did not name. This completely destroys your argument because if you claim the US trains the Israeli, Japanese, *******, or other how to conduct air combat with there planes, they might be in a bit of trouble. The fact remains that any plane sold to any country receives basic avionic training in the use of that aircraft.
Combat avionics is not thought or showed by any US force to any country which it sells its equipment. Also allow me to bring another question to bare. If the US provides air-combat training to the IAF, why is much of the training curriculum is based from Israeli experience? I don’t understand why you see the USAF gaining vital combat experience from another countries lessons and trials as draw back or negative? Here are a few quotes

It is interesting to note that American pilots receive training from their Israeli counterparts as part of their training curriculum.

The following is a report that reveals some of the skills of the IAF pilots:

Sep. 22, 2003 | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
"Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two countries, an Israeli military official said Monday. The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
In the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar margins, the officials added.
Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing its own locally made systems into the aircraft. The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of Sardinia in Italy."
According to the IAF website:

687 enemy airplanes have been shot down in dogfights since Israel`s birth. Only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down by enemy planes since 1948 - a statistic which puts the dogfight victory ratio between Israel and its Arab neighbors at a whopping 30:1.

The IAF is holding world records at the amounts of enemy's warplanes shoot-downs, air combats, special operations, and air to ground operations at the jet era.

Next qoute
That is also untrue; it was France that provided Israel with the nuclear know-how and the first nuclear core.
How is this untrue? what you say is true, but said above, it wasnt UK that provided the nulcear know-how and first nuclear core. I never said anything about heavy water now did i?

Germany provided Israel with 2 Dolphin subs for only 66% of the actual price.
Is this a joke? 66% where did you come up with this imaginer percentage? First of all each submarine cost 320 million(no Israel didn’t get a coupon on the submarines),and was not provided 2 weeks ago. The last time a submarine was supplied to Israel was during 1999 not 2005 as you imagined


Sadly i must leave , i will edit my post and reply to the last comment made about militry hardware. Sorry for the delay.

[hurdy]

Really? Do you know the F-15 has been already sold to Japan, South Kora, Saudi Arabia, and a few others I did not name. This completely destroys your argument because if you claim the US trains the Israeli, Japanese, *******, or other how to conduct air combat with there planes, they might be in a bit of trouble. *snip*


I think your replying too quickly before reading the comments, allthough the IDF advances with their training by themselves, the BASIS of it was provided by the US...




How is this untrue? what you say is true, but said above, it wasnt UK that provided the nulcear know-how and first nuclear core. I never said anything about heavy water now did i?

Lol, you qouted yourself and then replied to yourself hehe..
Anyway, if you check up I did not deny France was partaking in the Nuclear issue on Israel and if you check up again I posted that the UK took a PART in it, and you stated that as untrue.


Is this a joke? 66% where did you come up with this imaginer percentage? First of all each submarine cost 320 million(no Israel didn’t get a coupon on the submarines),and was not provided 2 weeks ago. The last time a submarine was supplied to Israel was during 1999 not 2005 as you imagined


I'm not talking about the Dolphin subs bought in the 1990s but the one in 2005, Israel already has 2 (or is it 3?) Dolphin subs from Germany and is about to get 2 more from Germany.

Source (http://www.forward.com/articles/6923)
Source (http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_004211.php) Source (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3171565,00.html)

Tons more out there.

[Sarge]

I think your replying too quickly before reading the comments, allthough the IDF advances with their training by themselves, the BASIS of it was provided by the US.. You understand that does not make sense. That would belike saying since Germany during World War 2 used the tank for the first time as a modern MBT ,(until then the view on tanks did not change since WW1, most people thought tanks were a slow moving vehicle with really no advantage. I will give credit for the Germans for being the first to use tanks as a modern weapon of war), then we should all accredit them for this since they formed the basis. If you still stand by you word so strongly then I will take a different approach. If pilot skills of the Israelis pass those of the Americans what does it matter who Taught who, and who is better. In the end of the day these are two very strong alleys which benefit from each other greatly. Even with the aid US puts into Israel, it still benefits more then it loss. By doing this it ensures a sort of monopoly over all military technology made there.


Lol, you qouted yourself and then replied to yourself hehe..
Anyway, if you check up I did not deny France was partaking in the Nuclear issue on Israel and if you check up again I posted that the UK took a PART in it, and you stated that as untrue.
I was trying to show you what I said was true by what I said previously.

I will repeat myself as clear as possible, the UK did not provide the Nuclear Know-how like you said. The Know-how being the information on how to build a nuclear facility, it was the French that did, and last I said France was the one to provide the functional core in Israel. So simply put we both agree.
I'm not talking about the Dolphin subs bought in the 1990s but the one in 2005, Israel already has 2 (or is it 3?) Dolphin subs from Germany and is about to get 2 more from Germany.
If you were referring to that allow me to correct myself. I was thinking of the imddiate here and now. Since those submarines have officially arrived. Even with the discount Germany is not losing any money. In fact last time I checked I didn’t think the USA pressured Germany into selling these submarines for a discounted price.

[admin]

687 enemy airplanes have been shot down in dogfights since Israel`s birth. Only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down by enemy planes since 1948

No doubt Israel has good pilots, bit there is a difference between fighting against peasants and fighting against an army, the Arab army generally fight like peasants, no real tactics involved, i say this with great sadness, but arabs in general are rubbish militarily. Iran, Pakistan, Turkey are the 3 prime military muslim military powers. (saudi is too on paper [with their Euro fighters and F15's and other western technology etc.] but in reality they have worse trained units than Egypt!)

So even though that statistics is great, it's not a reliable source to tell us how good the israeli air force REALLY is! We probably won't be able to tell until Israel fights a war with a country which uses the same technology, and have half decent trained army.

Is this a joke? 66% where did you come up with this imaginer percentage? First of all each submarine cost 320 million(no Israel didn’t get a coupon on the submarines),and was not provided 2 weeks ago. The last time a submarine was supplied to Israel was during 1999 not 2005 as you imagined

It's true, but it's good for both parties, especially Israel, this means next time Israel wants subs they will look to Germany again...

Such deals are fine if it wasn't so much double standards, no other nation would have got such a heavy discount from Germany, and no other nation would have got the same amount of aid Israel gets from America (where there is alot of other poorer African nations starving to death!) , i am all for aiding Israel economically, but militarily is wrong, i am also against this "double standard" with America who only help Israel, yes you may say they Help Egypt and Jordan too, Egypt got something like $170 billion and Jordan was something like $30 billion. That was only AFTER they signed the peace treaty with Israel though, else they wouldn't have even dreamt of seeing such money from America.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Hurdy, germany sold us those subs because of crisis in the past between israel and germany, plus they have enough interests in this such as employing more workers to build those sub marines thus reducing the unemployment in the country, alot of countries do the same and give large discounts in order to encourge such a deals, in this case they have various reasons thats is the cause for the large discount.

What crisis was that? Ixnay on the holocaust please because Israel didn't exist back then. Also, they won't need to employ more workers to build more subs. They just use the same workers to build the same subs. The german government just sold them for 2/3 of the price because they're retarded.

[Sarge]

No doubt Israel has good pilots, bit there is a difference between fighting against peasants and fighting against an army, the Arab army generally fight like peasants, no real tactics involved, i say this with great sadness, but arabs in general are rubbish militarily. Iran, Pakistan, Turkey are the 3 prime military muslim military powers. (saudi is too on paper [with their Euro fighters and F15's and other western technology etc.] but in reality they have worse trained units than Egypt!)
How does this explain the last credited qoute?
Sep. 22, 2003 | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

"Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two countries, an Israeli military official said Monday. The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
In the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar margins, the officials added.
Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing its own locally made systems into the aircraft. The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of Sardinia in Italy."



Edit: Ok this topic is going no where i am done.
The original question was why Israel has a better military then other middle eastern country’s.

Its because technology, equipment, military industry’s, experience, and quality of troops. Be it with US support or not (to apse those who would immdality say US support)

[Killur]

What crisis was that? Ixnay on the holocaust please because Israel didn't exist back then. Also, they won't need to employ more workers to build more subs. They just use the same workers to build the same subs. The german government just sold them for 2/3 of the price because they're retarded.


Listen, smart guy, don't start questioning everyone that support Israel just because its Israel without checking all the facts. If Germany sold those subs to Iran for 2\3 price you wouldn't say a thing right? they wouldn't be so retarted then, right?

I'll look out tomorrow through some websites to check out more details about this deal. (Im sure there's a reason for the 2\3 price, this exchange is done strictly out of economic reasons so there's no "hay wer'e stupid and got tricked by jews" reasons for the discount).

I'm really getting tired of this blind retarted posts.

[admin]

How does this explain the last credited qoute?

that doesn't prove Israeli airforce is better than the German airforce! there could have been alot of other factors involved in that dogfight, Maybe in the next one Germany might win (if they hold another one!) , i am not saying Israeli airforce is rubbish, just that it's not as good as some claim it to be.

[Sarge]

Word on the street says there are alot of posts like that

To admin: we don’t really know who’s good and who’s not in the end of the day. However 100 more kill ratio is hard to overlook. It does not matter how many factors were in place. Military wars games are designed to be a simulation of a real instant of combat on fare grounds. Not really factor based.

Now i am done :P

[hurdy]

I'll look out tomorrow through some websites to check out more details about this deal. (Im sure there's a reason for the 2\3 price, this exchange is done strictly out of economic reasons so there's no "hay wer'e stupid and got tricked by jews" reasons for the discount).



The reason is obvious and I dont disagree with it at all, its because of the Holocaust commited by Germany.

Since 1949 Germany has paid Israel 60-90 Billion in aid voluntarily.

[isr agent]

The reason is obvious and I dont disagree with it at all, its because of the Holocaust commited by Germany.

Since 1949 Germany has paid Israel 60-90 Billion in aid voluntarily.

Paid israel? most if not all of the money went for the survivors and their families.
Now for what i wrote about the crisis, you all brought up the holocaust, but i didnt ment anything about it;
In 1991 during Desert Storm where we had to sit in shelters with gas mask waiting like a sitting duck to a missile with a chemical or biological warhead, we were forced and agreed not to react and let the other countries get the job done... during Desert Storm several german companies have been accused for helping iraq in developing chemical materials to be used in the war heads, the public in both israel and germany outraged that 50 years after the holocaust germans are involved yet again in creating weapons to be used against jews, the german chancellor decided to partly fund several sub marines and today's deal is still droven from that decision.
For some of you it will sound like a stupid excuse but you were never and i wish you will never have to hide with gas mask in a shelter when alarms go on and off all the time.

As for what admin said, why is the US supporting us and not others, it is enough to look at our history (not the manipulated one you can probably find in iranian sites) with our neighboors since 48' to see we needed and desreved that help more than any one of the other countries wished us to be wiped off the map (gee just like iran's leader...), and dont forget how many soviet weapons were used in this area to give you a measure about how much one sided this could've been, after the US support it was still one sided but as you said and i agree mostly we fought peasants.

[Sarge]

germans are involved yet again in creating weapons to be used against jews, the german chancellor decided to partly fund several sub marines and today's deal is still droven from that decision.

And as those two things above, i will state this. What you just wrote here in the quote in general is the biggest most outrages dumb thing I ever heard. It is so outrageous that when I first read it, I thought it was a joke. You think Germany developed chemical or biological weapons because they wanted it to be used on the state of Israel? Are you stupid or something? Because really I must beg to differ that if you think that was intention of the result then you really need to get checked out. – Take it from a Israeli

As for what admin said, why is the US supporting us and not others, it is enough to look at our history (not the manipulated one you can probably find in iranian sites) with our neighboors since 48' to see we needed and desreved that help more than any one of the other countries wished us to be wiped off the map (gee just like iran's leader...), and dont forget how many soviet weapons were used in this area to give you a measure about how much one sided this could've been, after the US support it was still one sided but as you said and i agree mostly we fought peasants.
You have a pretty big ego there mr.Israel, even saying the term USA gave us support. This is what giving a bad name means by the way.

[isr agent]

No, im not stupid, i think you didnt understood what i said correctly, what i ment is that german private companies were involved in creating chemical weapons in iraq of 1991, it might have been just an assistant and guidance but its a major part that helped them, i dont know what came out of it because then USA and its allies invaded.
It was'nt ment to be tested on israel, i never said that and i am a bit more logical than you think i am, i am not a conspiracy fan either and i dont think im over patriotic but i think some people in here should know a few things before complaining why this country gives israel a discount and why that country is supporting israel so much...
I dont see any problem with what i said when USA supported us like in 73' and since then, that is the true isnt it? so i dont see where is my ego speaking insted of me, i try to avoid it most of the time but if you think i put too much of an ego in that part please tell me where i would like to hear your opinion.

[Sarge]

No, im not stupid, i think you didnt understood what i said correctly, what i ment is that german private companies were involved in creating chemical weapons in iraq of 1991, it might have been just an assistant and guidance but its a major part that helped them, i dont know what came out of it because then USA and its allies invaded.
It was'nt ment to be tested on israel, i never said that and i am a bit more logical than you think i am, i am not a conspiracy fan either and i dont think im over patriotic but i think some people in here should know a few things before complaining why this country gives israel a discount and why that country is supporting israel so much...
I dont see any problem with what i said when USA supported us like in 73' and since then, that is the true isnt it? so i dont see where is my ego speaking insted of me, i try to avoid it most of the time but if you think i put too much of an ego in that part please tell me where i would like to hear your opinion.

No dude they shouldnt know, and you shouldnt care, thats the difference here between us both. Your looking out of only one side of the window. Just stop posting this stuff seriously, what are you trying to prove? if i were you i wouldnt even bother wasting time with this stuff. Who cares if they know or not

[isr agent]

Edit- never mind...

[4X-IL]

I'm following the posts here for a few days without registering, and now i just had to, because I want to say what I got to say.

If we were in an Israeli forum, watching us talking bullshit about Iran, making your country looks bad, and preventing from outcasts seeing the truth, wouldn't you come and tell us what is the truth, and evreything you want to say?
As an Israeli, I don't want to hear \ see anything about my country, for the good, or for the bad, if it's incorrect.
I know my country isn't perfect, but it's not worse then any other country who have a famillier situation like ours, or even if they doesn't have it.

As people who lives here, I think I know better what my country is doing, what she got, what she gets, and what she's doing, because I listen to first hand news, not 10 hand news who passed 100 people who hates us and want us to look bad.

[isr agent]

Damn i didnt edit my post fast enough...

[Sarge]

I'm following the posts here for a few days without registering, and now i just had to, because I want to say what I got to say.

If we were in an Israeli forum, watching us talking bullshit about Iran, making your country looks bad, and preventing from outcasts seeing the truth, wouldn't you come and tell us what is the truth, and evreything you want to say?
As an Israeli, I don't want to hear \ see anything about my country, for the good, or for the bad, if it's incorrect.
I know my country isn't perfect, but it's not worse then any other country who have a famillier situation like ours, or even if they doesn't have it.

As people who lives here, I think I know better what my country is doing, what she got, what she gets, and what she's doing, because I listen to first hand news, not 10 hand news who passed 100 people who hates us and want us to look bad.

This this a responce to me or someone else?

[4X-IL]

Generally, not adressed to anyone

[Sarge]

No seems pretty direct to me 4X-IL, being that some people here may know more then you

[4X-IL]

More then me about what?
about my country? I doubt that, no, I'm sure.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

Listen, smart guy, don't start questioning everyone that support Israel just because its Israel without checking all the facts. If Germany sold those subs to Iran for 2\3 price you wouldn't say a thing right? they wouldn't be so retarted then, right?

I'll look out tomorrow through some websites to check out more details about this deal. (Im sure there's a reason for the 2\3 price, this exchange is done strictly out of economic reasons so there's no "hay wer'e stupid and got tricked by jews" reasons for the discount).

I'm really getting tired of this blind retarted posts.

I question whoever the **** I want to question. If Germany sold the subs to Iran, I'd have said the same thing. I would understand the discount if they'd been selling something like a dozen subs, but two?? If there will be more business deals such as this one in the future, then I'd beleive whoever said that the discount was because of customer loyalty.

[Sarge]

More then me about what?
about my country? I doubt that, no, I'm sure.

O yes i know more about your country, i happen to be in your country, i happen to know somethings you know. So doubt all you like.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

omfg you're from israel?#@$
למה לא אמרת גבר :|
חשבתי אתה מאיראן :\

Chutspah, is this not an english-only forum, you mashuganas people?

[Sarge]

No its not, now please claim down and stop swearing.

[Parmenides]

From what I read in the papers, I think part of the reason for the discount is an ongoin understanding from the 90s that Israel will get compensation from Germany because german companies helped equip Saddam's army before the first gulf war, including chimical weapon research.

When it was revealed, newspapers' headlines in the world went something like:
"Again Germans produce gas to kill Jews".
After that the German government decided to give discounts to the IDF.

[Mohmar 'Deathstrike']

No its not, now please claim down and stop swearing.

You can't tell me vat to do.

From what I read in the papers, I think part of the reason for the discount is an ongoin understanding from the 90s that Israel will get compensation from Germany because german companies helped equip Saddam's army before the first gulf war, including chimical weapon research.

When it was revealed, newspapers' headlines in the world went something like:
"Again Germans produce gas to kill Jews".
After that the German government decided to give discounts to the IDF.

If this is so, then the German government are *****(edit by sarge for inappropriate language). The gas was never used against Israel, and if anything, Germany should give discounts to Iran and Iraq, which were the only countries affected by Saddam's chem weapons.

(Edit: This is Sarge asking you for the 3rd time to please watch your language, you wont be asked again.)

[Parmenides]

The emphasis is on 'again'.

[defcon]

This is is "Closed"

Review and respect our forum rules please.

Discussions at irandefence.net are open for "respectable" and not a challenge between each other's point of view.

I hope that we can leave our agenda behind and discuss only what really matters, is the topic at hands.

No more profanity or trash talking please.

Thank you