Serbian FM: Arabs blocking peace talks

[Indonesiana]

Serbian FM: Arabs blocking peace talks
By HILARY LEILA KRIEGER AND TOVAH LAZAROFF

The main obstacle to peace in the Middle East is the "stubborn refusal" of certain Arab countries and organizations to recognize Israel's right to exist, Serbian Foreign Minister Vuk Draskovic declared Sunday while on a visit to Jerusalem, which he called the capital of Israel.

"I fully understand the fear of the Jewish people, because refusal to recognize the existence of Israel must remind Jews of the Holocaust and seem a demand for a new annihilation, and this couldn't be a basis for negotiations," Draskovic told The Jerusalem Post.

Draskovic said he could well understand the importance of recognition for Israel since the lack of recognition of Serbia's territorial claims to Kosovo form the central cause of the conflict there between the province's Albanian Muslim majority and its tiny Serbian minority.

Others have asserted that Serbia is at fault for not recognizing the right to self-determination of Albanians in the region.

One of Draskovic's chief goals in coming to Israel was to garner support for Serbia in its bid to retain control of the strife-ridden province, which he described as the "Serbian Jerusalem" because of its central place in Serbian history and religious tradition.

Draskovic said the parallels between the experiences and treatment of Israel and Serbia by the international community should draw the two countries together. He alluded to criticism in the UN and media.

"Many newspapers are writing that Israel is terrorist No. 1 in the Middle East [and] that Serbia is terrorist No. 1 in the Balkans. We're not. This is the wrong perception of us - both of us," he said. "We have to support each other."

To that end, Israel and Serbia signed two memoranda Sunday, one easing certain visa restrictions and another pledging bilateral cooperation. Draskovic also met with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and opposition leader Binyamin Netanyahu.

Draskovic said he was fully satisfied with Israel's response to his requests concerning Kosovo.

At a joint press conference, Livni said, "I believe in an agreed solution and in compromise and bilateral discussions, and not in forcing both sides to accept something that is being enforced from the outside."

Kosovo, while nominally under Serbian jurisdiction, is currently being run by the United Nations Mission in Kosovo in anticipation of a final-status resolution.

Draskovic stressed the centrality of Jerusalem, referring to it as "the capital of Israel." But the Serbian ambassador to Israel, Miodrag Isakov, indicated that the country has no immediate plans to move the embassy to Tel Aviv.

"Jerusalem is the capital of Israel," he said. "Where the administrative capital is [located] is less important. More important is that we do recognize and admit Jerusalem as a capital."

Those efforts are being led by the same "quartet" - the US, EU, UN and Russia - that spearheaded the road map and is working to find accommodation between Israelis and Palestinians.

If there is any question about Israel's right to exist, the Serbian foreign minister said, then the quartet states "also have no right to exist, because the historical roots of all of them are here."

Draskovic, a devout Christian, will be visiting Jerusalem's Old City, Nazareth and Galilee during his three-day stay. He will meet with representatives of the Orthodox Church but not Palestinian officials.

Those comments reflected Serbia's position on the issue, according to Draskovic.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378331435&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Well, I want to hear comments from our Bosnian brothers on this topic...:roflmao3:

[Vinay]

This is terrible.

Israel says "Arabia" is blocking peace. The Arabs say Israel wont move, we have made too many sacrifices. What is the solution to this "merry"-go-round.

[hanjarsoldier]

a low life serb who really hates jews but is giving in to international jewry because he knows they run america and to prove my point how does a little piace of **** land that depends on american aid and has totally no say in the world got to do with serbia. anwser the eternal jew that runs capital hill.

[LiberalGuy]

how does a little piace of **** land that depends on american aid and has totally no say in the world This is hilarious. Israel is one of the most advanced nations in the world. They have some of the best scientists, the quality of life is high. You are merely displaying your ignorance. Do you know what Israel's GDP per Capita is, are you aware of their advancements in research and development? Do you even know what GDP is? Don't confuse Israel with Bosnia. ;)

[Sanchezz]

What other to expect from the serbs.Recently they inagurated new constitution mentioning "kosovo as an part of serbia that can never be taken from serbia" .. offcourse they got an answer from nato governing kosovo "Their constitution dosent affect talks about kosovo independence in any way" :) it same like afghanistan wrote in its constitution "USA is a part of afghanistan that can never be taken from afghanistan" :D Now they are licking foreign asses to get some diplomatic help :D

[azrael]

My goodness i thought serbia had distanced itself from this sort of thing. I have no idea why these people must search the world to court new and old enemies. The balkans is a lovely region , it holds some of my fondess memories and some of my worst, it doesn't need another war. The zionist helped serbia during it's last genocidal war , it didn't help. What makes their leadership think it's going to help this time around. If serbia transgresses against the independent state of kosovo, it'll open up a race between the two sides to see who can fill the vacuum. The two sides are the u.s. hegemony and the free muslim world, either side wins it'll mean serbia loses. Serbia can't afford to lose anymore wars or it will only be found in history books. Her neighbors; montenegro, kosovo, macedonia , bosnia h, croatia and slovenia all just want peace and economic development; this too should be serbia's goals not more ethnic wars.

[Stanislav]

My goodness i thought serbia had distanced itself from this sort of thing. I have no idea why these people must search the world to court new and old enemies. The balkans is a lovely region , it holds some of my fondess memories and some of my worst, it doesn't need another war. The zionist helped serbia during it's last genocidal war , it didn't help. What makes their leadership think it's going to help this time around. If serbia transgresses against the independent state of kosovo, it'll open up a race between the two sides to see who can fill the vacuum. The two sides are the u.s. hegemony and the free muslim world, either side wins it'll mean serbia loses. Serbia can't afford to lose anymore wars or it will only be found in history books. Her neighbors; montenegro, kosovo, macedonia , bosnia h, croatia and slovenia all just want peace and economic development; this too should be serbia's goals not more ethnic wars.

I appretiate how you take the time to reply like this but, how did the "zionists" help us in 92' , if they helped us we would not be portrayed as war criminals by every documentary and by every report involving Serbia during war time (and at times in time of peace)

[azrael]

I appretiate how you take the time to reply like this but, how did the "zionists" help us in 92' , if they helped us we would not be portrayed as war criminals by every documentary and by every report involving Serbia during war time (and at times in time of peace)

Help from jews is the same as sold weapons at highy inflated prices during the wars, What? you did not expect them to make a profit on your misery? The war criminal issue, a lot of people did horrible things during the war, like all wars, but the serb republic of bosnia created a culture around the atrocities, a cult of nightmares and suffering. The bosniacs and croats did bad things every now and again, but they were ashamed of it, the bandits who ran the bosnian serb republic did bad things and they were not ashamed , they would brag to anyone in earshot about the horrors they inflicted upon 'enemy' civilians, they made videotapes of their actions, they did it in front of international peacekeepers. The war criminal title was not something created by others for the serbian republic of bosnia, it was a thing they created for themselves, a thing they boasted about and a thing that eventually brought shame and ruin to serbia proper, a thing that makes good people hide the nation of their birth from others for fear of being associated with the crimes of bandits.

I still believe that serbia , if it chooses to make peace , a real lasting peace with her neighbors can still have a good future, slovenia has already joined the e.u., other members of the former yugoslavia will join, so too can serbia. God gifted the serbian people with the ability to do great good as well as great mischief, isn't it best they choose the former. Serbia was decieved by liars who led her into costly wars that gained her nothing and cost her much. Any fool could have seen that serbia was incapable of using force of arms to keep croatia and bosnia integrated. Could you imagine if serbia had just let them go , like it had slovenia. Maybe there would still be a union with montenegro, maybe kosovo would never have become a refugee colony for serbs driven out of croatia, thus stopping it from leaving the union. Definately serbia's economy would be much stronger today and the bandits would be in jail instead of running the government. Oh yes, hundreds of thousands of people would still be alive and every serb could proudly say he was serbian anywhere in the world without fear of someone looking down upon him as a murderer. But that is the past and as such can not be changed, god's will has been done by the stumblings of mankind as always.

The future is still unwritten, will serbia chase after the false visions of the zionist who will claim that they can reverse kosovo's independence? The turks courted the zionist believing their lies that they would get them into the E.U., has that worked? I'm an iranian , if serbia chooses the zionist and continued aggression, it will not matter to me, but you are a serb? All it will bring you is misery and more suffering in exchange for more false promises and false hope of greatness. If serbia chooses peace and reconciliation, again as an iranian it doesn't affect me, but to you a serb? it will be a great benefit, it will mean that one day serbia will join hands with bosnia and croatia as all three join the e.u. , it will mean that one day you can visit and even live anywhere in the old yugoslavia that joins the e.u. , it will not turn back history but it will create a better future.

Iranac poslovica: Bog ne dopustiti te za izabrati tvoj prolši, ipak možda, muškarac dopustiti te za izabrati tvoj budućnost?

[Stanislav]

zzz cant add links yet :/

[Stanislav]

You my friend are a moron, do you even know what was happening in and around Srebrenica before the Serbian Counter-attack?
what Naser Oric was doing was not a war crime? impaling, beheading, mutilating and burning of civilians wasnt a crime?

Dont tell me they were ashamed of it cos they wernt, they wouldnt have taken pictures and videos of it and used it as propaganda if they had any shame, they also raided Serbian villages during the Orthodox Christmas, theres a link it shows burned-headless bodies of his victims, and you can also find his videos which i will try and locate, i cant link just yet, but i will soon.

[azrael]

You my friend are a moron, do you even know what was happening in and around Srebrenica before the Serbian Counter-attack?
what Naser Oric was doing was not a war crime? impaling, beheading, mutilating and burning of civilians wasnt a crime?

Dont tell me they were ashamed of it cos they wernt, they wouldnt have taken pictures and videos of it and used it as propaganda if they had any shame, they also raided Serbian villages during the Orthodox Christmas, theres a link it shows burned-headless bodies of his victims, and you can also find his videos which i will try and locate, i cant link just yet, but i will soon.

Oric stood trial and answered all charges against him, he isn't running like a criminal somewhere in the woods. And regarding the other issue

It is generally accepted that the claim of 3,000-3,500 Serb civilians killed is an exaggeration made by some in an attempt to deflect from criticism over the Srebrenica massacre.[12] Carla del Ponte, ICTY Prosecutor, has stated that:

"It was pretended that 3000 Serbs were killed by Muslims in Srebrenica and the neighboring Bratunac. What was not said is that the alleged number of Serb casualties in these two municipalities, which is probably closer to 2,000, concerns the whole period of the war, 1992 to 1995, and that it concerns both combatants and non-combatants ."[13]

Similarly, Human Rights Watch has claims that the Serbian Radical Party has "launched an aggressive campaign to prove that Muslims had committed crimes against thousands of Serbs in the area" ; a campaign they observed "was intended to diminish the significance of the July 1995 crime." [14] In a July 6, 2005 press briefing, a spokesperson for the ICTY Office of the Prosecutor noted that the number of Serbs in the region that Serbian authorities claimed to have been killed increased from 1,400 to 3,500; a figure the ICTY stated "This figure may have been inflated." [15][16]

It has also been argued that Serb casualties and losses during the period prior to the creation of the safe area gave rise to demands for revenge against the Bosniaks based in Srebrenica.[17] [18] The 2002 report commissioned by the Dutch government concluded that:

The Muslim attacks during the first year of the war appear to have caused the most resentment among the Serbs, who felt deeply humiliated by Oric. It is primarily defeats in places such as Zalazje, Podravanje, Fakovici and Kravica that Serbs wanted to avenge. Probably, that thirst for vengeance was one of the main driving forces behind the massacres in July [1995]. [19]

On the other hand, not all the soldiers participating in the massacre were driven by revenge. Drazen Erdemovic, a soldier in the Bosnian Serb army who admitted to participating in the massacre, testified at the ICTY that if he had not participated, he himself would have been executed. [20]

[Stanislav]

Oric stood trial and answered all charges against him, he isn't running like a criminal somewhere in the woods. And regarding the other issue

Nothing is going to happen to Oric, why would he need to run? and as for the "Srebrenica massacre" first it was 6000 men and boys killed, then 8000 and then 10 000, now its back down between 8000 and 10 000... even during the war when Oric was advancing and raiding Serb villages, the media stayed clear of that...his troops even shot 3 shells across the border into Serbia killing a 70 year old woman and injuring another, Srebrenica wasnt a safe haven it was a military stronghold, it had close to 4000 Bosnian Muslim troops plus they got supplies parachuted to them by America, which were later on captured by Serbs because Oric's forces had to retreat.

[azrael]

Nothing is going to happen to Oric, why would he need to run? and as for the "Srebrenica massacre" first it was 6000 men and boys killed, then 8000 and then 10 000, now its back down between 8000 and 10 000... even during the war when Oric was advancing and raiding Serb villages, the media stayed clear of that...his troops even shot 3 shells across the border into Serbia killing a 70 year old woman and injuring another, Srebrenica wasnt a safe haven it was a military stronghold, it had close to 4000 Bosnian Muslim troops plus they got supplies parachuted to them by America, which were later on captured by Serbs because Oric's forces had to retreat.

Oric was sentenced to jail , for his exesses, he didn't run , he faced his fate. I wish your propaganda nonsense about american parachute drops was accurate, but no such activity occured with repect to weapons, only those horrid MRE, and even that was later in the conflict. I know the logistics of how the bosnian army recieved it's supplies, it was a very difficult and time consuming supply network. Oric's forces were for the most living off serb republic of bosnia captured weapons because they were out of contact with the supply network. The early phases of the conflict were fought by ex-policeman like oric on their own inniatitve launching raids , it was only later that the peace treaty with the bosnian croats allowed the bosnian military to launch real campaigns.

[Stanislav]

The 'prosecutors' are going easy on his type, and so is the media.

[Stanislav]

I mean when is the last time youve seen a documentary about Bosnian muslims or mujahadeen committing war crimes on Serbian civilians?

Even when they do write about it on the internet, they say 'Serbs allege'
even after (in some cases) seeing it with their own eyes.

Oric is not going to get a death penalty , but on the other hand Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic would be 'judged' by del ponte and not only would they be judged the Serbian people would aswell, the media would be pumped full of 'srebrenica this srebrenica that' 'genocide' bla bla...

even on the World Cup when bih was Versing Serbia.. they got into the seige of sarajevo, they not only portrayed the soldiers and commanders as criminals but the WHOLE of Serbia, "if you translate this grafiti it says ' all Serbs should be hung from trees...' you can understand their hate for Serbs"
.."what if the Serbs sing songs about Mladic or karadzic?"
(while an ex bosnian soldier was being interviewed saying how he wished "an atomic bomb hit Serbia", while his son was laughing"

not at any point in any way or form saying anything about Bosnian crimes , only portraying them as angels of the war in the Balkans.

the world today is faaar.. from democratic

in the UK in 02' i think it was when Croatian and Bosnian-Muslim victims of war , pictures videos ect, were shown in a big art gallery i think it was, as a part of some peace thing, the Serbian victims wernt allowed to be shown, the woman who tried to was arrested or escorted out..

[mohkaberat]

The Washington Post, February 16, 1994

SREBRENICA, Bosnia: Nasir Oric's war trophies don't line the wall of his comfortable apartment-- one of the few with electricity in this besieged Muslim enclave stuck in the forbidding mountains of eastern Bosnia. They're on a videocassette tape: burned Serb houses and headless Serb men, their bodies crumpled in a pathetic heap.

"We had to use cold weapons that night," Oric explains as scenes of dead men sliced by knives roll over his 21-inch Sony. "This is the house of a Serb named Ratso," he offers as the camera cuts to a burned-out ruin. "He killed two of my men, so we torched it. Tough luck."

Reclining on an overstuffed couch, clothed head to toe in camouflage fatigues, a U.S. Army patch proudly displayed over his heart, Oric gives the impression of a lion in his den. For sure, the Muslim commander is the toughest guy in this town, which the U.N. Security Council has declared a protected "safe area."
Clear admission to beheading and torching property of civilians.

On 30 June 2006 Tribunal judges convicted Naser Oric of failing to take steps to prevent the murder and cruel treatment of a number of Serb prisoners in the former UN ‘safe area’. They sentenced Naser Oric to two years' imprisonment.

For which he receives only two years... life is cheap in Europe these days.

Srebrenica women claimed Mr Oric's men organised
> prostitution using young Muslim girls who had fled their
> homes in nearby villages during the Serb ethnic cleansing
> of 1992. Mr Mustafic said 24 inhabitants of Srebrenica
> were murdered by Mr Oric's men for opposing his style of
> leadership.
>
Nice guy this Oric.

[azrael]

sources? Oric wasn't a saint by any stretch of the imagination, he was a man traumatizied by the world around him crumbling and the illegal and barbarous conduct first of the JNA and later the SRA. The diffference between men such as him and the the men who fought for the other side? He stood up to pay for his crimes , the others fled into the hills like bandits.

[sayenforever]

and as for the "Srebrenica massacre" first it was 6000 men and boys killed, then 8000 and then 10 000, now its back down between 8000 and 10 000

It was always 8,000 a tragic loss of life - and it seems like you're clutching at straws with the number.

The conflict is over. I am convinced the Serbs will never try anything like that again, so lets move on. People of the ex-Yugoslavia are known for their independent thinking, their high level of education and their bravery. The US and Israel were behind much of the problems as it provided the US with the breakdown of an independent (and not pro US) country, and Israel with arms sales in violation of sanctions.

Whats done is done - debating like this is immature and disrespectful to all those who lost their lives on all sides.

[sayenforever]

This thread should be closed.

[azrael]

It was always 8,000 a tragic loss of life - and it seems like you're clutching at straws with the number.

The conflict is over. I am convinced the Serbs will never try anything like that again, so lets move on. People of the ex-Yugoslavia are known for their independent thinking, their high level of education and their bravery. The US and Israel were behind much of the problems as it provided the US with the breakdown of an independent (and not pro US) country, and Israel with arms sales in violation of sanctions.

Whats done is done - debating like this is immature and disrespectful to all those who lost their lives on all sides.

Hopefully you are correct and i agree the thread has drifted too much from the future to the past.

-thread closed, azrael-